[theBCnut]

I never would have thought of that one except BryanV always suggests it:-)

[mrsh1963]

Thank you Pattyvaughn for your suggestion of Parmesan cheese sprinkled on Camper’s dry food. I mix 2 heaping teaspoons from a jar of Kraft Parmesan & Romano cheese in his food and he loves it. Now I have to sprinkle cheese, only a small amount, on my 75 lb. lab/golden retriever mix (from local shelter) too.

[theBCnut]

Rotation helps keep the gut healthy. A greater variety of flora can live in the gut if they get a variety of different nutrients and that makes it harder for one bad microbe to overgrow.

[poochie1059]

Thanks Shawna for some more great information. What an interesting concept – to rotate foods. It does make sense. So glad I found this website.

[susalu]

My sweet Schmoopy has anal gland issues and needs to have them regularly expressed… every couple of months… Right now I have her on Vitality dog food in the AM (5 stars) and Natural Balance dry food in the evenings… Thinking about switching the PM food to raw… Any suggestions?

[Shawna]

Hi poochie1059 — I agree with everything Hound Dog Mom wrote. Many better quality foods are appropriate for puppy, adult and senior dogs.

I wanted to add, MANY of us here on DFA, including Dr. Mike, believe in rotational feeding. We switch our dogs food regularly. Some switch daily, some with each new bag of kibble, some every other month and so on. If you start when the dog is a puppy and feed the same quality of foods you can switch between foods without having to “transition”. Dogs should be able to eat whatever (that is appropriate) you put in front of them. By only feeding one food we actually create sensitive tummies.

I rotate with every new bag of food and buy the smaller 5 and 6lb bags. I rotate proteins as well as brands. I use a variety of 5 star “all life stage” foods for all the dogs in my home including the foster puppies the adults and the seniors (I have 8 dogs and foster for Boston and Papillon rescue). The foods I use include Acana, Orijen, Brothers Complete, Merrick, Earthborn, Nature’s Variety, Nature’s Logic etc.

Additionally, many of us put “toppers” on our dogs’ foods. The topper can include canned foods, dehydrated, commercial raw, sardines, raw or lightly cooked egg etc. All these add extra nutrition and variety — sardines as an example are a great source of extra protein and omega 3 fatty acids.

Good luck with and best of health to your puppy!!!

[poochie1059]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom, for that clarification.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Poochie1059 –

The AAFCO recognizes two nutrient profiles: “maintenance” and “growth”. Foods that meet the more stringent requirements of the “growth” nutrient profile may choose to advertise their food as being “all life stages” or for “puppies and adults.” So, in short, a food that is labeled as all life stages is a puppy food and is held to the same standard as foods labeled specifically for puppies. If you look into 5 star foods you’ll notice many 5 star foods are labeled all life stages, rather than having separate puppy and adult formulas.

[Jackie B]

/best-dog-foods/best-puppy-foods/ Read this article, all the way t the end. It explains how an All Life Stages food is right for both dogs and puppies. If you’re worried about it still, you can always switch to a puppy food.

[poochie1059]

We are getting a puppy who will mature at about 35-40 pounds (mixed breed). We have been told to continue using Life’s Abundance Dog food for dogs and puppies. It gets a 4-star rating here. My question is – how can a food provide every thing a growing puppy needs and still be appropriate for an adult dog. Should I be looking at a better puppy specific food? I know I need to continue him on what he’s on now, but am considering changing him over to something else. Thanks in advance for any advice/experience.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Sophia,

Insects are far more resilient than mammals. So much so that by the over use of chemical insecticides we’ve inadvertently produced pests that are immune to them. The chemical companies keep producing and selling more harmful chemicals in response. These poison our pets. So I’m copying a post that I originally shared on the Mercola Healthy Pets forum. Just in case you want to go that route.

“IPM Fleas
I use a method that my daughter and I developed when she went off to college (with her dog) and discovered her apartment and yard were infested from the previous renter’s cat and the abundance of ferel cats that frequented her yard. My daughter is an IPM entomologist and started her professional career at age 15. Here’s what we worked out.:

The first thing to consider is breaking the flea life cycle, which is: hatch out of eggs laid in textiles or litter, feed as nymph, metamorphasize to adult, hop on dog, mate/feed, hop off, lay eggs, repeat…

Bathing your dog regularly is a great way to interrupt the flea reproductive cycle… if they don’t reproduce, no resident fleas.

I use a fragrance free, non toxic detergent. I am currently using naturoli’s soapnut shampoo. Its extremely mild and nourishes the skin and coat. All the pet shampoos (even the hypo-allergenic ones) at pet stores have stuff I wouldn’t use, therefore, I won’t put it on my dogs. Occassionally I use a few drops of a REPELLENT, non toxic pet shampoo along with the detergent. I use Earthypet, for the drops. I get it at http://www.allnaturalcosmetics.com Its very fragrant, and more than 1 drop per small dog, 2 for med-large hurts me. I can only imagine how much it offends the dog. (For your sick dogs, I’d avoid the aromatics until they recover!) One of the ways you can monitor if the VOCs are too high for your dog is, “do they rub their face on the carpet?” That indicates that it is hurting their noses.

Keep in mind that your dog could still have gotten flea born diseases when you used a pesticide, as it takes a while for the resident fleas to get killed. A repellent, like lavender and rosemary oils, keeps the blood feeders away, and therefore prevents insect vectored diseases.

When I bath my pom. I fill up the laundry sink and have her sit in it for 3-5 min. I protect the ears and nose. I also watch for fleeing fleas and squish ’em. Make sure they pop. You will also see them swimming in the tub. Squish those too. Washing them down the drain isn’t enough. They hop back out. Also for the first several weeks, check your dog, down to the skin in a well lit area for fleas. Use a desk lamp. The fleas will come to the warmth. You’ll still have to comb through all her hair and examine all of her skin. If she’s picked up a tick, or cheat grass, you will find it during this procedure. Don’t forget to squish the fleas. When you aren’t seeing them or their “dirt”, you can move your bath times to less frequently, but monitor to find the best schedule. I bath more frequently during heavy hatches. Contact your State University, Experiment Station Entomologist for the timing of the heaviest hatch(es) in your area.

Next: frequent laundering (weekly to every 2 weeks) of your dogs bedding, with borax as a laundry booster: 1/4 to 1/2 cup per load. Borax residues form crystals in the fabric, which scratch through the exoskeleton and cause the adults to suffocate. I love that part! (dry on Hot) Fleas lay their eggs near where your dog habitates, in fibers: Carpet, upholstry, bedding. Flea nymphs hatch out and start feeding on what’s in their environment. Residual borax is consumed and kills the nymphs.

For control in carpets and upholstery, I wash them (steam clean) with borax solution. Its also a great way to get out petroleum and oil stains… as well as odors. Unless something happens, I shampoo a couple of times a year, like during major hatch cycles. (spring) and at the end of the summer to minimize the indoor population. The borax crystalizes after this too, and kills both adults and nymphs.

So, this method kills by drowning or suffocating the adults, poisoning the nymphs, and drowning/frying the eggs. It is an intergrated, (non invasive) pest management practice or IPM.

There are a number of things you can do to deter mosquitos from feeding on your pet. The aromatics work by repelling, but you can use garlic, (one of Shawna’s favorites!) Or complex Bs make the blood unpalatable to insects. I have frequently fed brewer’s yeast to get the Bs, but I’m hearing some downsides. Get a good supplement. Healthy raw foods with lightly cooked broccoli and other cruciferous veggies (see Dr. Becker’s book for amounts) are high in sulfur, and that repels mosquitos. Tumeric and curry (garam masala) have healing properties as well as making you “not a biting insects preferred snack.” Hope that helps! 🙂

I also mix up a spray bottle with water and some of Dr. Bronner’s Castile, mint oil soap. It repels mosquitos. I use this as a spray-on during peak seasons or heavy hatches. I went to the coast a few years back in May. I used this and everyone else in the campground was slapping mosquitos, regardless of “off” and deet, and I didn’t have even one, near me. It lasted all night. As you probably know mosquitos vector heartworm. So this little preventive measure goes a long way in protecting pups from heartworm.”

Hope that helps!

[Toxed2loss]

Good posts Patty & Shawna!

Like Shawna, I have personal detox stories. I was sprayed with monitor, an organophosphate insecticide, while surveying a farm, then repeatedly & deliberately exposed to several pesticides. Eventually I became so immune compromised that every toxic substance, even trace amounts through second or third hand exposures, produced life threatening reactions. Multiple heart attacks, strokes, seizures respiratory paralysis, asthma, lymphoma, lymphodenopathy…. It’s a huge list. At one time it was 3 pages, 3 columns. I experience new and different reactions depending on the bio-interactions of the specific toxins I’m exposed to. Yes, I also deal with boils, sores, hives, weals, itching, chemical burns, conjunctivitis (gooby or crusty eyes), ear itching & discharge, scalp reactions, TMJ, IBS… You name it. 8 years ago the doctor I used to see told me to go home and die. He said, “There is no treatment, there is no cure, it will get worse with every exposure. Go home and avoid all (exposures).” Then he told me he wouldn’t see me, or help me, anymore. The good news is he was wrong. :-}

Sonia, my 16 year old Pom, has gone through the deliberate spraying and is toxically injured, too. She’s had 3 surgeries for tumors, has seizures upon exposures, and has had both the eye & ear problems. She also had motor impairment & neurosis. Her symptoms flair during environmental exposures and resolve after detoxing. Like many of you I used to give her the annual vacs and regular worming. She’s much better since I quit those.

Rosie, my 2 yr old service dog, had a very bad reaction to her first, and only, set of vacs. She is still detoxing that vac. A Merck immunologist told me it would take at least 2 years. My doc did some more research and said, probably 3. Her symptoms include conjunctivitis, ear discharge & lymphatic cysts.

Different toxins take different amounts of time to fully detox. The cleaner (non-toxic) your, or your pets, diet and environment, the better you or they are able to handle the current toxins, and unload them: detox. Let me give you a couple of analogies. The one my doctor likes to use is to equate the immune system to a rain barrel, the kind that waters the lawn or garden. Every day toxins fill it up, and are drained off at a certain rate. When the barrel receives more than it can handle it over flows. The overflow represents symptoms of toxic injury. Small over flow, small symptoms, like itchy skin, hot spots, conjunctivitis, ear discharge. Large overflow, major alarming symptoms, which can range from chronic acute skin disorders, and impacted ears to seizures, heart attacks, respiratory distress, cancer… You get the picture. The problem is that most of us don’t recognize the problem until it manifests at the chronic level.

The analogy I use when counseling is to picture yourself in a small row boat, rowing across a large bay. The freeboard, the distance between the top of the water and the gunnel (top of the side) of the boat represents your immune system. The bay represents your life. You row across, or proceed through your life. When the weather is fine, there’s a lot of freeboard. If you’re carrying a lot of baggage, there’s less free board. Unfortunately the water often gets rough, reducing your freeboard, and even allowing water to come into your boat. (i.e. you’re operating with an impaired immune system, and most likely a chronic condition.) Most of us keep rowing along, even though now we’re pulling not only our weight and the boat’s weight, but the added weight of the water, as well. If we don’t stop and bail, eventually the boat will sink, or capsize in a storm. Bailing is detox.

You have to stop letting or putting toxins into your, or your dog’s, life. That’s the first and most important step. That means reducing or eliminating as many toxins as you possibly can from BOTH your diet and environment. Second, support the immune system. Third, assist your body in removing them.
This is not an easy answer. It takes time and commitment. Shawna gave you an excellent example illustrating that you can’t expect to treat it once and then “go back to normal.” If you go back to exposing your body to the toxic substances that trigger reactions, the symptoms of an immune system in crisis come back. They will get worse over time, you will react more violently to smaller amounts. This is because you haven’t completely cleared the toxic overload. If it helps you to visualize, you only removed the top inch or so of the water from the barrel, so its still on the verge of overflowing again. Just a little bit, and wham! symptoms. It’s called “neural sensitization” or hypersensitivity. There’s also the spreading phenomenon to consider. In Shawna’s post she talked specifically about dairy. Dairy casein’s have caused her barrel to overflow. When her immune system is that overloaded, any other toxin can’t be adequately dealt with either. So they begin to illicit symptoms as well. Soon the body learns to respond to that toxin with a “condition red” response. Here’s the good news, it can be corrected. I haven’t looked up the same info in dogs, but in people every cell in the body is replaced in 7 years. So theoretically, if you could avoid all toxic substances for 7 years, you’d have an empty barrel. O.k. There is a guy that did that, went off to a mountain top, no phone, no electricity, no toxins, and it did work. So its more than a theory. It’s just not very practical. Since our society & world are so inundated with toxins, its impossible to avoid them all. You won’t get an empty barrel. You can get a declining barrel if you commit to living non-toxic, and bailing your boat.

Oiy! There is so much more to say!! Detoxing is critical! We are living in an age of rampant toxic chemicals accepted as normal within our own homes! The CDC states that indoor air pollution is often 100 times more toxic than outside air. Cleaners, pesticides (think bug spray, flea & worm treatments, and mold killers) fragrances, laundry products, petroleum products and food additives! We slather these on every surface in our homes and right on our own, or our pets bodies. We willingly ingest them! There are three pathologies for toxic exposures: ingestion, inhalation and absorbed through the skin. Then step outside where people routinely apply pesticide to the their lawns, gardens and pavement as though it was soap & water! So do municipalities, schools, counties and states! Add to that road fumes, asphalt, dryer exhaust, industrial emissions… Etc.

Leading specialist in the fields of oncology, neurology, cardiology, pulmonary & reproductive medicine & many others are now saying that “All diseased states are caused, or exacerbated by consumer product & environmental toxins.”

We were never designed to live in a world that is inundated with so many synthetic toxins. Neither were our pets. Our bodies can’t keep up. The ADA (American’s with Disabilities Act) Region 10 office says, “chemical hypersensitivity is the fastest growing segment of the disabled population.” They don’t even consider pets, whose little bodies are closer to the ground (many widely used pesticides are heavier than air, and settle along the ground, traveling for 100s of feet, if not miles). Our pets have a faster rate of respiration, so they breathe in more. Our veterinary practices have been encouraging annual revaccinating and over vaccination as well as extremely toxic (and ineffective) flea, tick & Heartworm control. Insects are far more adaptive and resilient than mammals. We have inadvertently developed pests that are immune to the poisons… So we obediently poison our pets for nothing. 🙁 Though, there is a movement to change that. Awareness is growing.

What else do you want to know?

[Shawna]

H Sophia,

I’ve had to fight fleas on my foster dogs. This is what has worked for me — first I wash the dog with a shampoo or soap that has tea tree in it (Dr. Bronner’s is a soap with tea tree that is the right ph for a dog’s skin – any castile soap is). Toxed has recommended Dr. Bronner’s mint soap as well. When bathing you will want to wet the head first as I’ve read that the fleas will scury towards the ears for protection — starting with the head will block them. Make sure to get soap everywhere but ears and eyes (in between toes as an example). Rince off and towel or blow dry.

Once dry I apply food grade diatomaceous earth down to the skin by parting the fur and taking a pinch of the DE between my fingers and making sure it gets on the skin not just the fur. Then I rub it in the area. (DE looks and feels like white flour but it actually has sharp edges. Those edges are harmless to us and our dogs (unless too much is inhaled) but are deadly to insects. They damage the exoskeleton and cause the insect/flea to dehydrate causing death.) I apply the DE from the top of the head to the beginning of the tail and across the back. If the dogs fur is light colored you can see the flea dirt and apply where it is seen. I have found that it is not necessary to do the entire dog — just head and back (I’m guessing this is the area where they feed?). I don’t spare the DE when I appy it but you do want to make sure to keep dust clouds down as breathing it in is not great for the lungs. I rebath and reapply DE about once a week or evey other week. DE can be a bit drying but after the fleas are dead and no more is applied the coat will go back to normal.

I also have a bottle of premade essential oils that are flea deterants. I’ll spritz some of that on all the dogs as a preventative. Here’s a premade product (there are others available) http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/natural-flea-and-tick-control.aspx

In the environment you want to vacuum (including baseboards and furniture that can’t be laundered etc). You also want to wash any bedding.

A few fleas is really not that hard to get rid of but if you don’t address it an infestation can develop and that can be a royal pain to battle.. Hopefully you have caught it early enough that one or two baths and one or two DE applications is all it will take along with vacuuming and laundering. If you end up with an infestation there’s more you can do but for now this, in my experiene, is a good start.

Good luck!!!

[Mom2Cavs]

Over the years I have used many different brands of canned food as toppers for my dogs’ kibble. Currently, I’ve been leaning more and more on Weruva and Simply Nourish (also made in Thailand, but I don’t think it’s the same factory as Weruva…). I have tried others intermittently but keep coming back to those 2 brands. I recently bought some Merrick because they had a great deal going at my local Petco (buy 12 cans of Merrick, get a 5 lb. dry free). I wanted to try Merrick kibble in the rotation so I bought the cans. The dogs like it and do fine on it, too, so I will probably continue to buy it off and on. Now…after all this, I’m considering switching all my dogs to Primal and Stella & Chewy’s freeze dried (I rehydrate it). My oldest Cavalier is on some meds for syringomyelia and it makes her mouth/gums have issues sometimes so she stopped wanting to eat kibble or chunky canned food. I bought some Primal FD and rehydrated it for her and she loves, loves it! So…I may be either adding some to the other dogs’ kibble or switching them entirely like Stella.

[Anonymous]

What a wonderful person for rescuing the pup from dumpster!!!! God bless you! I bet the parmesan cheese will work. Good luck!

[Jackie B]

Dehydrated food like Grandma Lucy’s or Sojo’s is usually cheaper per pound than canned food. Just add water. And obviously the dehydrated food is much lighter. Mix it half and half with kibble if you want.

[mrsh1963]

I tried moistening food with chicken broth, beef broth, canned gravy. I’ll try parmesan cheese.

[theBCnut]

Have you tried just adding warm water to the dry? Or sprinkling on parmesan cheese? Adding a little of the meat from your dinner?

[mrsh1963]

2 months ago I found a dog dumpster diving for food. He is about 2 years old and in good health according to the vet. Problem is he doesn’t like dry food and will only eat 1/2 cup of dry food every other day. He began to lose weight so I mixed canned food and dry food.
Problem is I travel in a small RV and canned food is costly and added weight for the RV. My “Camper” is 40 lbs. which is his ideal weight.

[soho]

Dr Mike

Freeze dried / dehydrated should be distinguished from dry kibble. If you use moisture content as basis for dry or wet, freeze dried and dehydrated are dry.

You could call your categories;
Dry (kibble) or just kibble
Dry (freeze dried / dehydrated) or just Freeze dried / Dehydrated
Wet
Raw

[Jagger2012]

Hound Dog Mom,
For some reason I am unable to view the document. Is it just unavailable for some reason? I am looking for dry kibble and a canned food topper for my 5 month old Lab. Any help would be great! Thank you!

[Alexandra]

Hi Dr. Mike,

I would be more inclined to call them dry. Having the moisture removed to me qualifies them as dry. I would even go so far to say that they aren’t even truly raw foods as they have been processed.

I guess if we keep analyzing, then where does that leave the HPP processed foods, Natures variety and Primal. I know not all of Primal’s are HPP, but that would be an additional process done to the food.

Raw frozen, by that are you meaning Darwin’s and Bravo, etc? I would say they are raw products, they retain their moisture, and aren’t exposed to heat. They would retain their optimal nutrition.

Maybe rate these foods separate from each other? A category for freeze dried, dehydrated, etc.

Given that these are all processed to some extent, are they truly raw? I know it’s splitting hairs, but Darwin’s adds vegetables, so that would be a process. Bravo and Primal also add them to certain lines. I guess, the bottom line is what the “accepted” definition of raw is. For me, it would be the moisture rich foods with the barest amount of processing.

[Mike Sagman]

When comparing and rating raw dog foods here on The Dog Food Advisor, should dehydrated raw and freeze-dried raw dog foods be considered raw? Or dry?

So far, I’ve been considering raw frozen and freeze dried raw foods as truly raw. However, since nearly all dehydrated foods use a warm temperature forced air drying process, I’ve been classifying them as “dry” dog foods – even though they’re less processed than kibbles.

Are we being fair? How should we categorize and rate-freeze raw, dehydrated raw and raw frozen dog foods in future reviews?

Thanks for your opinions.

• This topic was modified 13 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman.

[Toxed2loss]

Both dietary and environmental toxins contribute to tear staining. That includes cleaning products, laundry products and everything with a fragrance. So can Pesticides, lawn and garden chemicals and petroleum products. Vaccines and worm Meds, and all other meds can also cause cause staining, as well as ear discharge, skin eruptions and seizures. Feeding the best specie appropriate diet, sans grain, potatoes & food additives goes a long way to helping keep your pet healthy, but its implant to remove environmental toxins as well. 🙂

[LabsRawesome]

I use a 5 star canned as their base food, to which I add a small amount (half a cup) of a 5 star kibble as a “topper”, actually the kibble goes on the bottom. 🙂 Also I like to add fresh eggs, sardines, various meats.

[soho]

In a dehydrated whole food product such as Grandma Lucy’s the QUALITY of the ingredients is far superior to your average kibble. In a dehydrated food you can take regular unprocessed foods and remove most of the water using a low heat. You wind up with a much less processed food than ANY kibble.

In a kibble the high protein content is always achieved by the use of meat meals. Meat meals are a highly processed protein concentrate that can be made from much lower quality ingredients than what is used in your average dehydrated product.

You can add some meat or a 95% meat canned food to Grandma Lucy’s as a topper and and you would have a much more nutritious product than you could have by using any 5 star kibble as your base.

[vgrsmith]

My senior dog developed stomach & skin problems about 3 years ago. Vet put him on Hill RX D/D after ruling out parasites, bugs, dry skin , etc.
It did seem to do the trick for him. No more itching and no more upset stomach. However, it is very expensive, I can only get it at the vet, and I noticed it had a very low rating. Any suggestions for a replacement food?

[theBCnut]

You should store the food in its own bag with the top rolled down in a cool dry location. Fats can go bad from exposure to air, heat, some metals, etc. If you keep it in its original bag then you have info for possible recalls and the experation date on the bag. If you get a large bag, but have a small dog, you might want to store excess in the fridge/freezer.

[Mitzi]

This may belong in another post, but it’s my first so bear with me.

We purchased Blue Wilderness in a 20lb bag and stored it in a can as usual. As we got down to the bottom the food started smelling really bad. A very strong fishy smell. Mollie stopped eating it so what could’ve made it start smelling? Should we not store dry food in a can? Thanks!

[Sedlypets]

We have a 6 yr old lab female we’ve recently adopted almost 4 months ago. She needs to lose about 10 lbs. I have been walking with her regularly even as much as 3.5 miles every other day and giving her less dry food and supplementing the other half with green beans. Even with all this, she is stuck on the scale. I think its a metabolism issue. She has been tested for thyroid and that was negative.
Her vet recommends the Hills Science diet, but given the scathing reviews out there I refuse to give that to her.
Any recommendations? She is currently on Diamond Lamb and rice (from her breeder) which she has no major issues with. I’m getting dizzy with all the information about dog foods out there that I was thinking of doing home cooked meals for her!
Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

mcaponigro –

I agree. I think some are led to believe a grain-free or grain-free/white potato free food is automatically superior or “species appropriate”, which isn’t the case. There are some wonderful grain-free and white potato free foods, but many more that are low protein, high carb and in no way species-appropriate. Whether the binder is grain, potato, tapioca or legumes – one must keep in mind that none are appropriate foods for a dog (carnivore) to be eating. The most important thing when feeding dry food is – in my opinion – focus more on maximizing meat content and protein content rather than picking a food based on which binder it uses. It’s also important to remember that just because a food contains an ingredient that is high glycemic doesn’t necessarily mean that the food is high glycemic – for an example, Orijen – which contains white potato – is one of the few foods certified low glycemic by the glycemic research institute. I think the only way one can truly avoid these high carb fillers is to go with an all meat or all meat and non-starchy vegetable canned food or feed a homemade diet free from grains and other starches.

[billhill]

I just heard that the Canidae brand of dry dog food might only have extensive safety testing at the new Ethos plant in Texas, since the various formulas are also manufactured by other contract producers around the country.
Does anyone know about the testing at Diamond, for instance, as of Dec 2012, since they still do contract production for other brands?

• This topic was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Fix Duplicate Topic Title

[aviva669]

I have a dog with sensitive skin and it got infected. after 2 trips to the vet I started the kid on a venison only dry food moistened with water. It was pretty good for a bit but he is scratching again. He likes the rub under bushes during his walk. Any suggestions on shampoo?
thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

clm86 –

Considering your dog’s issues I think Abady granular would be worth looking into. It would be a great food for putting weight on a dog – it’s high fat with around 800 calories per cup (about twice as many calories per cup as kibble). I’ve also heard dogs with sensitive stomachs do well on it.

Wet food is definitely a good addition to dry food, but it wouldn’t help much as far as adding calories. Due to its high moisture content wet food is generally much less calorie-dense than dry food.

I had issues getting my female bloodhound (now two years old) to gain weight and it wasn’t until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate homemade raw diet that I got her to gain anything (she’s still skinny but looks a lot better than before she was on raw). She eats 2 lbs. of meat per day with extras – such as eggs, cottage cheese and kefir – plus supplements and veggies and I was able to get her to put on 5 (much needed!) pounds after three months on raw and now she’s maintaining nicely. I aim for her meals to be 40-50% protein and 30-40% fat. So if you’ve got the time and money a high fat homemade diet would probably be the best option. The other benefit of homemade is you can tailor it to the needs of your sensitive dog since you control all the ingredients that go into it.

[clm86]

I need some help in selecting a dog food for my one Swissie…

Here’s the scoop: I have 2 Swiss Mountain Dogs. One is a 4 y/o bitch, who has the stomach of a garbage disposal, and could eat steel and be fine. Her weight is perfect. The other one is a 3 y/o neutered dog, sensitive skin/stomach, who I can’t put weight on for the life of me! He’s not overly skinny, but just tall and lean. We started out by feeding them Diamond Extreme Athlete. Holy gassy mess. And the male would get diarrhea every time we got a new bag. (?). So I’ve switched the female to Diamond Chicken and Rice– she’s fine on that. The male is currently on Pro Plan Sensitive Skin and Stomach (salmon)…and while he’s handling it well, I don’t see any changes in weight (he’s been on this for about 2 weeks now, so maybe I’m just being inpatient?)

What would you suggest to pack on some calories without being harsh on the stomach? Oh– I forgot to mention, he gets 6C of the Pro Plan daily. (Recommended is like 4-5). I was considering throwing in some wet food with his dry food, but it would have to be something PACKED with calories.

Suggestions, anyone?

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 13 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman.
• This topic was modified 13 years, 3 months ago by Mike Sagman.

[billhill]

I just heard that the Canidae brand of dry dog food might only have extensive safety testing at the new Ethos plant in Texas, since the various formulas are also manufactured by other contract producers around the country.

Does anyone know about the testing at Diamond, for instance, as of Dec 2012, since they still do contract production for other brands?

Bill

[theBCnut]

Between dog food, cat food, and cat litter, I always have plenty of good sized, heavy duty, lined bags laying around. I scoop into the bag regularly but I leave the bag open so the contents continue to dry out. On garbage day, I roll down the top and make a deposit of my own in the trash can;-)

[Shawna]

Hi Jesse82 ~~ several ingredients in dog foods are known to cause allergy type reactions. TotW is not a bad food but it does have potato and potato is one of the ingredients that can be problematic for a lot of dogs with allergies and sensitivities. Chicken is another if he’s eating TotW w/ chicken.

I’d try a food that uses a carb different from potato — Nature’s Variety Instinct and Brother’s Complete both use tapioca, Nature’s Logic uses millet, others use chickpeas/garbonzo beans etc.

I react the same way as your boy to dairy products. Itch my scalp til it bleeds in my sleep. Benedryl helps me for about 4 hours then the itching (and other symptoms) come back. Zyrtec works for much longer but unless I go dairy free it always comes back. Same thing happens with my dog Audrey. Her itching was between her shoulder blades and it would get crimson red she was so inflammed.. Until I eliminated the ingredients (4 total) she had issues with it NEVER completely went away.

[BryanV21]

Thanks for pointing that out… seriously. It’s interesting to read things like that. However, since I can find studies to prove anything, whether they are contradictory or not, I don’t put a whole lot of stock in them. Just another example of science failing or confusing people. Which is why I’m an advocate of the ancestral or evolutionary diet.

Besides, it’s not as if a dog owner doesn’t need to practice good oral hygiene anyway. And if an owner is doing that, then it doesn’t matter. The more important thing is which food is best, not which is dry or wet.

[BryanV21]

Patty made it clear that it’s a history of recalls that’s the issue, not one in particular. History shows that it’s quite possible for another recall/issue to arise in the near future… that’s the problem.

And their rating here at DFA is indicative of their ingredients and dry analysis, it is not based on their history pertaining to recalls or other health conditions. Which is why I tell people that inquire about Taste of the Wild that it is a good food per it’s ingredients, however Diamond’s history keeps me from recommending it.

Another case where needing to look into the gray area is necessary, as it’s not a black or white thing.

[aimee]

Hi BryanV21,

I brush my dogs teeth, provide chews (never bones) and like you thought that the idea that “dry diets are better for teeth” was a long stretch. But I came across some interesting publications looking at this issue and I find that I need to alter my beliefs. Certainly I don’t think that dry food equates with a healthy mouth, and maybe the overall health significance between dry fed and wet fed pets may not be great, but it looks like there is some basis to “the myth”

“Even after adjustment for age, the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed soft food compared with those fed dry or mixed food, and the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed mixed food than in those fed dry food. These results indicate that feeding a dry food diet has a positive influence on oral health, decreasing the occurrence of mandibular lymphadenopathy, dental deposits, and periodontal disease in cats and dogs.”

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/7/2021S.long

[BryanV21]

Wet food is not bad for teeth. You should be cleaning the dog’s teeth fairly often anyway, whether that be with brushing or using other teeth cleaning products. I’ve read that giving dogs raw meaty bones is a great way to keep teeth clean as well.

And if you’re being told that dry food is good for teeth, as it cleans them while chewing then ignore it. It’s a myth. Dry food crumbles when bitten down on, especially by the dog’s conical shaped teeth, so it’s not “scraping” the teeth at all. And a bad dog food is going to have ingredients that are more “sticky” and keep the mouth dirty anyway, whether it’s dry or wet.

[Devilbrad]

I’ll try some of these tips and more tough love. My hound is so picky, but she does seem to prefer Merrick wet food and her second choice is EVO 95. I can’t get her to touch dry food anymore. And I almost always have to put shredded cheese on the food just to get her started. She will eat the living day lights out of human food and anything she finds on our walks though, LOL I’m tempted to cook meals that her and I can share. I’m sure if it came off the stove and was what I was eating she would gobble it up. Now, don’t get me wrong, she does eat and is nice and healthy, not being neglected, that’s for sure!

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why do you want your dog to eat dry food? If your dog prefers the wet there’s nothing wrong with feeding only wet – a quality wet food is actually much healthier than dry food and wet food is better for weight loss. Wet food is generally higher in protein, lower in carbohydrates and higher in moisture than dry food making it more species-appropriate. Due to its high moisture content wet food is also, typically, much less calorically-dense than dry food making it a great option for dogs like yours that need to loose weight. To put it into perspective I’ll use Iams as my example (Pro Plan doesn’t list calorie information on their website and Iams is a comparable food to use for comparison): 1 C. Iams Proactive Health Adult Chunks with Chicken (canned) has 212 calories and is 44% protein whereas 1 C. Proactive Health Adult Chunks (dry) has 367 kcal. and is only 25% protein. Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice”

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why do you want your dog to eat dry food? If your dog prefers the wet there’s nothing wrong with feeding only wet – a quality wet food is actually much healthier than dry food and wet food is better for weight loss. Wet food is generally higher in protein, lower in carbohydrates and higher in moisture than dry food making it more species-appropriate. Due to its high moisture content wet food is also, typically, much less calorically-dense than dry food making it a great option for dogs like yours that need to loose weight. To put it into perspective I’ll use Iams as my example (Pro Plan doesn’t list calorie information on their website and Iams is a comparable food to use for comparison): 1 C. Iams Proactive Health Adult Chunks with Chicken (canned) has 212 calories and is 44% protein whereas 1 C. Proactive Health Adult Chunks (dry) has 367 kcal. and is only 25% protein. Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice” /choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

[BryanV21]

I hear this issue a lot, referring to picky dogs. More often than not it’s owners that are unwilling to give their dogs tough love.

Just like anybody else, they are going to prefer one type of food over another, but that doesn’t mean you have to be a big softy all the time and give in. If you put down dry food for your dog and it doesn’t eat, that doesn’t mean running to the pantry and putting down wet food instead. Sometimes your dog just isn’t that hungry, and would rather wait and see if it will get it’s favorite food instead.

Of course, if your dog has gone a day or two without eating, then it’s okay to be concerned. In that case I’d look into alternate dry foods. Normally those with a higher amount of meat are more palatable. My store recently received the new line of Merrick foods, and so far I’ve had a few people rave about how much their dogs like it. Fromm foods are very palatable too, as they put Parmesan cheese in all their formulas, and dogs tend to love cheese.

While the Pro Plan is not “Beneful” bad, I’m not impressed by the ingredient listing. Chicken comes first, followed by barley, dried egg product, and then chicken meal. Chicken, or any meat, is about 70% water, so when it’s cooked the water is gone meaning the weight of the chicken goes down quite a bit. Therefore this food has more barley and dried egg product than actual meat. So I’d definitely have you try some different foods in order to entice your dog to eat more… assuming that’s a problem, and not a temporary situation.

And as for the weight loss thing… you’ll find that you don’t have to feed as much with foods containing more meat, or animal-based protein. A dog’s digestive system is designed to digest meats, organs, and other animal-based foods. I’m not saying dogs can’t have fruits and vegetables, or even some grains, just that their bodies have a more difficult time with those. For example, humans and other omnivores have salivary amylase, which starts to break down the cell walls of plants right away, making it easier to digest once it gets down to the stomach. Not to mention the fact humans and other omnivores have a longer digestive tract, unlike dogs and other carnivores whose digestive tracts are shorter, and thus don’t have as much time to process the foods.

And if your pup is still hungry, that doesn’t mean adding more of the dry dog food, which will add extra calories and fat. You can simply add some thawed frozen green beans to the food instead, as they won’t add any more calories or fat, but your dog will be fuller and satisfied.

[Hound Dog Mom]

debbylcc –

Why don’t you want her to eat only wet food? As long as you’re feeding a quality canned food, canned is actually healthier than dry – especially for weight loss. Canned food is generally higher in protein than dry food, lower in carbs than dry food and it contains much more moisture. Because canned food is so high in moisture (generally 75% – 85%) is it usually much less calorically-dense than dry food so your dog can eat a larger volume of canned food for the same amount of calories as a dry food. Most dry foods have around 400 kcal. per cup while most canned foods have about the same amount of calories for a 13.2 oz. can (that’s a little over 1 1/2 C. food). Check out Dr. Mike’s article “Canned or Dry Dog Food – What’s the Better Choice?” /choosing-dog-food/canned-or-dry-dog-food/

[debbylcc]

I am in a similar situation with my new girl only she’s on the heavy side. She’s a pom/corgi mix…looks like a pom but has a corgi body and is a little overweight. By how much is anyone’s guess as the 3 times she’s been weighed she’s been 3 different weights! (all within one day of each other) The vet said she should lose 2 pounds. I wonder if that’s enough as she’s got some definite rolls. She is a rescue and apparently grew up on human food. I’m using Pro-Plan right now as a medium quality food. I want her to eat kibble so I’m mixing wet and dry 50/50. She’s eating the wet and leaving the kibble. Any suggestions? I don’t want her to have a diet of only wet food if I can help it. For the first 3 days I had her (it will be a week tomorrow) when I presented only dry food she did not eat AT ALL!!!!

[aimee]

Hound Dog Mom,
That is a great compilation of articles on large breed growth. The most important tenets of large breed nutrition are to keep the puppy lean during the growth period and to feed foods that have a calcium level near 1% (dry diets).

Calcium levels over 1.3 % in a dry food are likely approaching or above the safe upper limit for growth. Since there is no benefit to feeding these higher calcium products to a growing large breed and there may well be risk to the developing skeleton, IMHO they should not be fed during the growth period of a large/giant breed puppy.

Unfortunately, manufactures may state their foods are appropriate for large breed growth when they exceed the recommended level and may even say it is a dietary factor other than calcium that is responsible for the growth problems seen in large breeds. It really is a buyer beware situation as even foods labeled as “large breed puppy” sometimes exceed the recommended level of calcium.

On a energy basis the recommended amount of calcium is 3 grams/1000 kcals. The National Research Council sets the safe upper limit for calcium during growth at 4.5 grams/1000kcals. The European Pet Food Association sets the limit at 4 grams calcium /1000 kcals in puppies less than 6 months. AAFCO allows 7.14 grams/1000 kcals which is why large breed puppy owners have to be vigilant.

Additionally, as you pointed out, when evaluating calcium levels in foods you have the know the actual calcium level in the food. Manufactures often report min. calcium levels so that their foods appear to have a calcium level lower than what they actually have.

[BryanV21]

Yeah, if a food doesn’t have that much protein or other nutrients, or has inferior ingredients, then it doesn’t matter whether it’s dry, wet, dehydrated, freeze-dried, raw, or whatever.

I don’t think kibble is best for dogs by any means, but I totally understand the cost and convenience of it being more attractive to dog owners. But I like that you top the food like that.