[simmy]

Here is the deal,

There are some raw pet food brands they claim the meat in their product is grass-fed. For example: Raw Bistro or Darwin’s Natural Selections.

Their retail price is about $5-7 per lb. (http://wetnose.com/products/raw-bistro-frozen-beef#.VLXb6orF_60) How do they afford putting grass-fed beef into their products? Average wholesale price of grass-fed beef is around $3.50 – $4.50 per lb. considering their big volume purchases. Let’s say their muscle meat ratio is about %60. That brings their muscle meat cost between $2.10 $2.70 alone. Let’s add organ meat, vegetable other ingredient and all other production cost, I am going to assume it should be close to $4 per lb. without any markup. Their markup, distributor markup, retail markup… It just doesn’t add up.

here is average wholesale meat prices published by usda.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nw_ls110.txt

Formula 1
Product cost $4 per lb.
Manf. Markup 100% = $8 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $3.2 + $8 = $11.2 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $4.48 = $15.68 per lb.

Formula 2
Product cost $4 per lb.
Man markup 50% = $6 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $2.4 + $6 = $8.4 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $3.36 = $11.76 per lb.

How come they can sell grass-fed beef product that low? It just doesn’t add up unless they keep their cost per lb around $2.

So… What am I missing?

[l h]

What an excellent read on this! I too am leery of this food had e-mailed back and forth and kept getting scripted vague answers, such as bone content is not important we use the whole carcass, fermented veggies and fruits are more digestible. Anyway, finally got no response when I said I found it very odd that there was no nutrient panel, and no bone, muscle, organ ratio something disclosed by most every raw company I have dealt with.

As for the fish formula and peoples dogs getting ill, I for one would not feed raw fish, and there are varying opinion, but many who say fish, and pork are two meats to stay away from in raw, dehydrated or frozen for various reasons, bacterial level and other.

Yes their food calculator is way off, but then I have found the same thing with a number of brands… including darwins and vital essential freeze dried. A food with high protein and fat GA … yet food like Stella and Chewys, Primal with added veggies etc and lower fat I need LESS of, but with VE, a richer food, which you would assume you need less of, in fact you need MORE calorically.

Hard to trust so many foods, one of my dogs has major allergies, and GI sensitivities. I had hoped to add BDN into the mix, but am leery as to their lack of forthcoming info that is easily disclosed by other companies.

On their positive side, the whole bacteria and air drying process.. that is a catch 22… any food that is air dried( think people that used to make jerky long ago not in an oven) will risk that. Even frozen raw has bacteria once thawed… you cook the meat over a certain temperature, and BDN having supposedly bone in content, then you risk cooking the bone, and making your pup very ill. Plus a healthy dog, should be able to eat all these forms of raw… no issue and digest.

If BGN ever decides to disclose more info I may try, but I find their responses and secrecy very strange… sad as it does look like a good option, with the fermented veggies and all as a better way for the dog to process and digest, rather than pooping them out the other end. That being said, not fond of the potato in it although they insist only 3% as everyone knows starch and raw meat and bone digest at different rates.

Oh, and lastly for those that feed pre made raw, MOST companies Darwins, S&C, Primal with their added vitamins the vitamin E/tocopherol mix, and any Lecithin of course are most always soy based. So if you have a dog with soy among their allergies like mine, many of these foods are a no go, one of the reasons I had hoped to try BDN no synthesized vitamins, which again, unless a company claims are usa sourced are usually from China.

Yes I have researched and contacted many companies… sigh…

[Dori]

Susan, the reason, I believe, and from what I recall reading in the past is that Darwin’s is not on the EC list is because it is not readily available in any stores. Darwin’s is an on line order and only from darwins.com. Making it not easily available for everyone. I questioned this early on because I thought being that anyone could order it on line, anyone could order the food. But….Darwin’s is not only available only from their website but you must order it on an auto order basis. Anyway, it’s the only answers I’ve been able to come up with. I used to order Darwin’s for my dogs but once they upped the fat, upped the price and because my dogs are so small and I feed in rotation I dropped it from my rotation menu.

[susan s]

I’ve just joined your editors choice. I see a number of people of nominated Darwin’s and I’m wondering why it’s not on your list. I’ve been using Darwin’s and I’m very happy with it but I would like to know what you may have found.

[Shawna]

Small afterthought — Dr. Smart also recommends the avoidance of beets in a kd diet while Dr. Royal includes beets in the Darwins kd diet — soooooo……..????

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

OH NO!!! Pegripley and Kari K — I’m so sorry I missed your posts!!! My time is somewhat limited and for a long time I wasn’t able to log in to the forum side. Still don’t know why that happened?? If you still having questions please email me at shawnadfaemail@yahoo.com

Kim S – I use the Sprinkle Fiber in conjunction with the Primal Defense probiotic as needed (if Audrey seems depressed, or her breath gets a bit unpleasant etc). Audrey is nine pounds — I give her 1/2 to 1 full sized Primal Defense and 1/8 teaspoon of Sprinkle Fiber. I then give her more Sprinkle Fiber at the same dosage for subsequent meals until she is feeling better (usually, with her, only two or three meals). Audrey gets probiotic foods fairly often so I usually don’t have to give her more than one Primal Defense.

As mentioned in other post — I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support as well. And a raw diet if doable. Dr. Barbara Royal created a raw kidney disease diet for Darwins. http://www.darwinspet.com/our-raw-foods/our-raw-dog-food/intelligent-design-ks/#sthash.D8huiK2g.dpbs

[Andy B]

Thanks for your help. I called Darwins. They make a raw diet. They told me I can use everything they have except the duck, due to it having sweet potato. I’m learning a lot about dog nutrition after countless hours on the computer. I’d love to feed both my bostons a raw diet but it’s very expensive so I would need to use a 50/50 mix of raw and a good quality kibble. However my dog is extremely allergic to certain foods. I had a blood test done due to him having three seizures. I was feeding him at the time “natural balance” sweet potato and fish formula which had peas also in it. His treats were old mother hubbard peanut. That’s when he started having seizures at night. I had the vet do the allergy test and he’s exGood! I’m glad I did test. I wonder with everything we were feeding him if he was going in aniphilctic shock ( sorry don’t know spell) peas listed as the fourth or fifth ingredient. It seems I can’t find a kibble without peas, & Orijen is the only one having it toward the middle of there ingredients.

[InkedMarie]

Both of Darwins duck have sweet potatoes; the others all have yams. Anyone know if sweet potatoes & yams are the same thing in relation to dog allergies?

[Dog_Obsessed]

Darwin’s is a great food. You could feed raw at one meal and kibble at the other. Also, there is a human-grade dehydrated food called The Honest Kitchen. Their Embark (turkey) formula meets these requirements. Here is the link to the food on the THK website: http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food/embark

[Andy B]

We just received His Blood work back and hes Extremely allergic to sweet potato’s & peas. Also has to be grain-Free and rosemary free. Anyone have any ideas for me for a Dry Kibble? I was thinking about using a half raw diet from Darwin’s raw diet and a kibble mix. It is extremely hard to find a kibble with not having these ingredients.

[stephanie b]

We just found out our Boston has some severe allergies to specific foods (sweet potatos, green peas, barley) we were looking to start on Darwins raw diet but also wanted a good quality kibble (pref grain free). Any suggestions?

[theBCnut]

I’m not currently using Darwin’s because one of my dogs is allergic to at least one thing in every one of their formulas, but I used it for quite a while and was always very pleased with it and how my other dogs did on it.

[George D]

Well, I don’t know what to make of this, so far my dogs were doing good on BDN, however, last monday I started them on the fish supreme formula, that same night my king charles got very bad diarrhea followed by my Aussie, they were both very tired the next day and the Aussie pup slept all day which is unusual! Don’t know if I got a bad batch or something else caused this. I’m starting to get this gut feeling about this food and its not good. When i call and ask questions, they are very vague on their answers, couldn’t even tell me how much protein is in 1 cup of their food. I’m considering giving Darwins a try, anyone using them here?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by George D.

[Judy M]

Ohhhh , didn’t read criteria carefully enough, Thanks for the info BCnt; I guess I will stick with it since it wasn’t omitted due to quality.
(I feed the more expensive free range “no additive junk’ version) of Darwins and conveniently pkg’d and easy to use .

[theBCnut]

One of the criteria for EC is widely available. Since Darwin’s is only available directly from the manufacturer, it isn’t considered widely available. It is still a great food.

[Judy M]

I cn’t find Darwins it was listed 5 star on regular DGA site…has it not het been rated or is it now not recommended? need to know because using it for my dog Thx Judy

[USA]

Hi Bri,

It’s good to see you feeding raw twice a week. For most dogs this is a big improvement over ANY kibble!

Heart – I notice the meal you added the liver to was Beef Heart. Even though heart is a muscle, it is a different kind of muscle than the breast or leg or thigh, etc. The heart is a non-striated muscle, while the muscles everyone usually thinks about are all striated muscles.

I like to say that nutrient-wise, heart is about halfway between regular muscle meat (breast thigh, etc) and the much richer organ meats (liver, kidneys, etc). Now that is just an estimate. The point is that heart is richer than breast but not as rich as liver, so it should still be used in moderation (up to 20% of meal).

As others have said, the calcium in the Dinner Mixes is calculated based on meat without bone. So the extra calcium that would come from you adding bones is not needed, and could actually be detrimental!

This is what Steve Brown had to say about adding organs to his Dinner Mixes:

“Thanks for the note.

Yes, it’s okay to add muscle meat and some organ meat, but please don’t
add a lot of liver. Keep the liver to less than 10% of the total meat.
Adding up to 20% hearts is fine.

Steve Brown”

On a side note (cause I’m a dog man), constipation can be pretty common in raw diets ESPECIALLY if they contain bone! Your cat probably could use some fiber added to the Darwins to ease any constipation issues. I use a couple of different types. Psyllium husks are very fiber rich and I add no more than 1 teaspoon per pound of food. Flax, Chia and Hemp seeds are not as rich in fiber as Psyllium, but they are also good for the skin. I add about 1 tablespoon per pound of meat.

Keep up the Good Work!

[Z B]

Got a bag of SSLL premix last week, finally got around to using it today. I defrosted a beef heart I had in the freezer. Cubed most of it and puréed some of it In my vitamix blender so I could blend the premix powder in with the heart purée. The dogs were delighted and scarfed it down.

Questions:
1) I added a bit of beef liver, because I had some on hand. Is adding liver necessary or recommended when using this premix?
2) What about bonemeal or ground bone,,is it necessary or recommended with this premix ? ( I didn’t use any this time but I can also grind chicken wings in my blender if it is needed).

I feed water packed sardines a couple times a week. Occasionally eggs. Occasionally turmeric and ground flax.

I try to do all raw on weekends. Weekdays are a mix of 4-5 star kibble mixed,with 5 star Canned or sometimes Raw (I have lots of Darwin’s raw cat food leftover….the cat can’t eat it anymore bc of constipation issues, so the dogs have been enjoying it)

I’m not doing RMB at the moment because little dog is a gulper and big dog gave me a scare getting a chicken neck stuck in her throat. It finally went down but spooked me pretty bad. 🙁

[InkedMarie]

You have to decide if you want prey model (no fruits or veggies) or barf type, with them.
I don’t do fruits or veggies, I buy ground & scoop it out. Premades that are prey model are Vital Essentials & Primal. Pretty sure Primal is.

Pre mades that have them are Stella & Chewys, Natures Variety (I don’t like them), Answers and Steve’s real food as well.moh and Darwins (available only from them).

[neezerfan]

I’m using Darwins raw, rotating with several different types of canned. It is messy, though so it may cause more problems than it solves as far as messy faces are concerned.

[Dori]

No, not the same. Vital Essentials Raw is a different company. Commercial made raw foods that I keep in rotation are Primal Formulas (that is their complete and balanced line, they also make a freeze dried formula), Vital Essentials Raw (they also make a freeze dried formula), Answers Detailed Raw (not always easy to find), Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food only (not their kibble with raw boost), some people like Stella & Chewy’s Raw but I don’t like it at all anymore, I used to feed Darwin’s but they’ve added more fat to the formula and lowered the protein and raised the price so I stopped using them, I have recently added to our rotation O C Raw. My three dogs are doing well on it and seem to like it. You’ll find that initially raw will seem much more expensive to you than any kibble BUT it is well worth it. You feed less commercial raw than you would kibble and my dogs spend very little time at the vet which is a huge savings. Oh, there’s also Steve’s Raw Food. They only one of the foods that I’ve mentioned that you’ll find a the big supermarket type pet stores is the Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw. All others are typically sold at your smaller boutique type dog stores. Any of those stores that carry Answer’s Goat’s Milk can order Answers Detailed Raw food.

I have three toy dogs (Maltese, Maltipoo and a Yorkipoo) and have been feeding commercial raw for approx. three years.

[InkedMarie]

There are various options for raw. You can buy pre made raw at the store; the ones I like are Primal & Vital Essentials. If you go to the review side, put raw food into the search and read up on them.

Darwins is pre made raw that is shipped to you. Google for the website, they offer a trial package at a good price.

You can do your own raw, BARF or prey model. Prey model has no fruits or veggies. That is what I feed but I feed it ground. I buy the bony ground from Hare Today and some from Reel Raw. I buy some boneless from Hare but most of it locally.

[Z B]

Thanks, crazy4cats!

Bobby dog – do you notice much poop odor feeding primal, NV, and S&C? I ask because I really liked how my cat’s were odor free on Darwin’s. Feeding canned again, i noticed the smell right away.

[Kristin C]

Hi Bri – I have dogs so I’m not sure this applies, but have you tried pumpkin for the constipation? It’s supposed to work for diarrhea too. I’ve been using Darwin’s but terminated because of price, increased fat in their newest formula, and the meat turns brown

[Z B]

Hello all
I’ve been lurking for a while and enjoying the site and all the great info here! I have a finicky 13’yr old female spayed cat who I finally put on good quality canned food about a year ago. After lots of trials I found a couple brands that she liked (hounds & gatos and simply nourish) but she still wasn’t eating all of it so I tried Darwin’s raw and she loved it!

So she was on Darwin’s raw for 6 months or so until last week. She was acting sick and I had to take her to the ER for what turned out to be severe constipation. One kitty enema under anesthesia and a thousand later she is doing ok and back on simply nourish and hounds & gatos canned, but not eating as well as I would like.
I tried Pet Fresh this week but she wasnt crazy about it.

I’m guessing it was high bone content in the Darwin’s raw that caused the constipation??Does Anyone have a recommendation for another commercial raw food that has a lower bone content?

• This topic was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Z B.
• This topic was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Z B.

[InkedMarie]

I don’t have a puppy but my favorite foods are:

Kibble: Farmina, Dr Tims, Annamaet, Natures Logic, Brothers.

Dehydrated: The Honest Kitchen

Premade raw: Vital Essentials, Primal & Darwins

[InkedMarie]

My favorites: premade raw by Vital Essentials & Darwins, The Honest Kitchen (dehydrated), for kibbles: Farmina, Annamaet, Dr Tims

[neezerfan]

OK, I’ll jump in here. You’re right, Linda, there is no straight answer. First of all, I don’t feed kibble. I think it’s too processed, too high in carbs and not species appropriate. But then I have 2 small dogs and not 3 big ones so that keeps finances more out of the decision.

For one dog, I feed him a combo of Darwin’s raw and a few types of canned I like. Fromm, Whole Earth Farms, Nature’s Instinct and Ziwipeak are my favorites. I also add in fresh human food when available. Plain meat and cooked veggies.

My other dog has food intolerances so he is now eating Royal Canin potato and venison canned food. If you had told me a year ago I would feed this I would have said you were crazy but it’s been a savior for him. After 3 months on this I’m slowly adding other brands of venison food to see how it works for him.

So, it is a matter of what works best for each individual dog. You read and learn and makes some choices of good quality foods, and see what works!

BTW, is there really a food that labs won’t eat? LOL!

[Nancy C]

Kristin — I bought 3 turkey necks from HARE TODAY and they are in the freezer still. HOW exactly did you feed them? They look big. Hare Today says they are 1 1/2 pound each. According to the 2 -3% body weight my GSD can eat approx 2 pounds of raw a day. so it would seem to me that ONE neck would be a meal in that he eats two meals a day — but perhaps I should cut it in half?
Were your dogs able to chew it up easily? Did they eat it frozen? Did you feed it outside and just lay it down on the ground (as some say to do) ? I sound so stupid — I just have NO experience and I do not know of anyone around here who feeds “basic raw raw” (meaning raw pieces as in the wild – not “prepared commercial raw’ like Darwins, Primal etc). What I am scared of is choking and the possibility of biting off more bone than can go through the “tubing” in the body.
I think I have read that beef bones are comparatively hard whereas goat, lamb, duck, chicken are softer bones and that would infer easier to chew up. Thank you for what you can say.

[pugmomsandy]

You can also feed a raw meaty bone (chicken thigh, drumstick for example) in place of three meals per week which will help with cost. Also, your dog should be able to eat varying amounts of fat and protein so I would still keep Darwin’s in the food rotation with other foods like the FreshPet you mentioned. There are premixes that you can just add raw or cooked meat to and a little bit of oil and that’s it. Pretty simple. I think Tuckers Raw and some of the Bravo raw foods come in the individually wrapped serving size.

[Judy M]

Which do (u all, and Mike) consider to be the most “budget friendly” raw diet (already prepared ready to feed – so that I don’t have to source and grind and mix ingredients myself). I MA currently feeding my 7.5 ur old, 22-lb spaniel mix dog Darwins. naturals, mostly duck, but exploring other options die to q new higher fat ratio formulation combined with an increase in price. what to do the best for my dog’s health and longevity, but keep the budget in mind. I felt the naturals, ( no antibiotics, no added chemicals and or hormones,organic better for her health, which I am ok with spending more for her (tho I can’t really afford to so for myself but dogs live such short lives not want to do the very best for her, but it has to be do-able, convenient enough that I will have time for it and not end up wasting ingredients that Ia don’t have time or energy to psirce ingredients, prepare prepare and, mix and prepare and have enough energy and nough time to prepare it myself and not end up wasting ingredients when. I do t have energy to learn how to and do the work of concocting thr daily ears foe her myself. (Darwins is so easy, just thaw, open and feed. is it worth the extra cost by being that much more healthy for her, or would it be just as healthy to switch to something else. ,( I notice that even Fresh Pet (available at grocery store) has received 4 stars). is premium or gain raw really that much vm open Should I stick with Darwins (given those considerations, even tho they at hey will n exchanging the ingredients formulation,raising the price and at same time adding more fat? should d I not be concerned with the fat increase I. the new formulation. like I said, just want my 7.5 ur old beloved dog to live as long and healthy q life as possible. any advice welcome. thanks for all replies , sorry for any typos. touchscreen learning curve)

[cindy q]

Nancy, I never used Darwins so I don’t know how it would compare to Stewarts. I still prefer BDN over any I have tried, mostly because its easy, scoop add water wait a few minutes and its done. The Stewarts I have to add water and break up the little cubes.

[Nancy C]

So, I just emailed DARWIN’S to cancel my order which was due Oct 22. I told them the new formulation has too much fat and with the price increase along with the incr in fat — NO, NOT FOR US. Too bad.

I was sorry about that bec I saw Darwins as a primary participant in my supply. I liked the fact that it was organic. So, do you ladies feel that STEWARTS is equal to the old Darwin’s?

I don’t hear you mentioning ZIWIPEAK. (I’m not attracted to it for some reason.) Should we be? And I can’t get into K9Natural, mostly bec of the fat. So, Good Question, CindyQ. ANSWERS is a good one I plan to try. Also Vital Essentials and That other Raw one Dori was trying. O A Raw or something like that? It is supposedly very good.

[Kristin C]

Got it BC. But I’ve noticed when I make my own raw meals (I freeze in single serving mason jars) that the older portions start to turn brown like Darwin’s. The newer portions stay pink throughout. I agree that it doesn’t cause short term issues. But it’s expensive brown meat (Darwin’s). I know they mark their production date on each package but by the time it’s shipped it could already be several weeks old, and depending on how much you order by the time it’s eaten it could be several months old. Just consider that Nancy because you might want to order smaller quantities more frequently.

[theBCnut]

Oxidation has to do with the length of time that meat is exposed to air. Darwin’s is known for getting small holes in their packaging and so air gets in. It is still fresh frozen, just not as pretty as we would like it to be. Dogs have no problem with plain old freezer burned meat, so they won’t have any issues with that. But I still wish Darwin’s would use slightly thicker plastic.

[Kristin C]

Nancy- Yes, it means oxidation. To me that just means older meat. Oxidation changes the protein structure some but I don’t think it’s necessarily harmful. Since the raw meals I make stay nice and pink (unless I stock up for a while) I have decided to forego Darwin’s moving forward and just make my own chicken and beef every week or two. I am starting to try Reel Raw’s novelty proteins so I will see how pink those stay.

[Nancy C]

Kristin – What exactly does “the meat turns brown” refer to? (Darwins). I noticed that after thawing the chicken the outside was brownish but when I mashed it up in the bowl it was all more reddish inside…. all sort of like ground round how it turns brown on the outside aft a couple of days but it is still red inside. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? Oxidation? would that be harmful?

[Nancy C]

Cindy- Keep us informed about the Stewarts. I have Darwins in the freezer (the intro pack) and my golden gobbled the chicken. I can’t figure out HOW to avoid giving it COLD to her. One time I put the glass bowl in the toaster over on WARM so she would not have to eat it right out of the frig where it had thawed. I know it is considered one of the best and am interested in knowing HOW Stewarts compares to it.

[Kristin C]

Thanks Cindy. I think I am going to try Stewart’s myself. As for BDN I am sure it is fine in rotation. I currently use Darwin’s but am not going to re-order. The meat turns brown which I don’t like. I think if you order a small quantity on a very frequent basis it’s probably better. I keep coming back to making my own food.

[Nancy C]

The Homeopathic vet I have worked with recommends BDN and Darwins as raw food options that HE stands behind. I have asked him point blank about BDN and he says it is excellent food, he knows the company (has no ownership and is not personally involved) and he knows the food and therefore recommends it on his website.
I called them (BDN) today to ask about the calcium/phos ratio for beef. no problem: It’s 1:1. I do not understand the issue with BDN but my dog gobbles it like there is no tomorrow and I am going on my vet’s recommendation because he is extremely particular. Has 6 dogs himself, including several Grayhounds I think he said (or some large specialty breed) and feeds it and Darwins to ALL SIX of his dogs. Loves both foods. To find his website can google Dr. Charles Loops DVM. He is VERY intelligent and has been a homeopathic vet for 30 yrs. Pays attention to things that regular allopathic vets do not. Treats lots of dogs with Cancer succesfully. His recommendation goes a long way with me.

[Nancy C]

Cindy – glad your dog liked the BDN. I got the variety pack and the golden likes everything in it. gobbles all of it up. This company works very hard to produce a good digestible food. I called the other day to find out the calcium phosphorus ratio for beef since it is not listed on the site. Just FYI it’s 1:1. I also plan to give my dogs a Raw Meaty Bone 2 x a week because they are very healthy. That will work with their ca/phos ratio.
I am also feeding some Darwin’s to the golden retriever. She loves that too, but it is pretty pricey and I am not sure how long I will keep that up for two large dogs.

[cindy q]

Kristin, no problems at all with the Stewarts! They like it and their stools are good. I am still hoping somone finds out that BDN is fine to feed. I would like to use both. I have been thinking of trying darwins also.

[theBCnut]

Hey Jude,

I am in no way annoyed or offended. We have all been in your shoes. Sorry, you didn’t get my lousy sense of humor, but I was laughing at myself. I’m taking care of my aunt with Alzheimer’s, and I think I’m loosing my marbles, so I will frequently reference my own poor memory. Better to laugh than cry, and all that.

What I was trying to get across is that there is no wrong way to get started. It’s what works for you. And it is OK to learn as you go. We all did. I don’t believe there is a single one of us that is doing things the exact same way as when we started. I started with what seemed easiest to me and kept reading and researching. Some days I still do easy, and others, it’s like I am preparing a gourmet meal. But some days, that is what works for me.

I use premixes and Darwin’s(until recently) and I make my own. I make large batches and freeze portions, and I make individual meals. Some times I just throw them a meaty bone and don’t add anything at all.

It is daunting at first, trying to do everything just right, but remember, people need a balanced diet too, but we aren’t dropping over like flies from not eating right. We balance our diets over time, and by feeding variety, we can do the same with our dogs. That concept really helped me to relax and enjoy feeding my dog.

You are going to do great! And you are going to have 2 very happy and very healthy pups.

[Kristin C]

Hi Jude-when I first started my puppy on raw earlier this year I would give her treats of raw chicken during the day. When I was sure she could tolerate it I gave her a full raw breakfast for a few days, then added dinner. I did the same thing transitioning her to raw beef. I have tried Darwin’s but the meat turns brown and it’s expensive. Nature’s Variety worked for us and it is very accessible as it’s sold at Petco, but it’s expensive too. Orijen Freeze dried works for us when when we travel, again expensive though. I have resorted to buying my own chicken and beef when on sale, add organs, puréed vegs, sweet potato and pumpkin and, as of this week, am adding in See Spot Live Longer to my homemade. I buy grinds of novelty meats from Reel Raw to get more variety and rotate those in. In addition, my girls each get a can of sardines per week and I make tripe and yogurt treats for them a couple times per week. You can request samples of THK on their website. I have a couple samples I have not tried yet. The best advice I can offer is to try one thing at a time, keep doing what works, discard what doesn’t work. Every household is different. I have revised my dog’s eating schedule many times this year!

[theBCnut]

I feed half kibble due to the need to have something that the squeamish people in my house can feed. For raw, I used Darwin’s until just recently(allergy to flax stopped that), now I’m using grinds from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore and other home raised meats. I add whatever my dogs need to those. For the last 3 days, they have been working on eating a whole turkey. Ocassionally, I use commercial raws, but 2 of my dogs have multiple food allergies, so there isn’t a whole lot I can use. I rotate everything I feed.

[Nancy C]

BCNUT: I hear you!

I think I will call back the Homeopath and ask his assistant about this. I will ask her if SHE will talk to the doc and see if she learns anything more about the food. This vet is very careful…. I am working w him now bec my GSD’s titer for Parvo came back last week negative, but the distemper was strong. My regular vet wants to REVACCINATE using a COMBO Parvo/ Distemper. (Her Vet Group does not offer singles!) I am NOT going to Revaccinate for distemper when he is immune to it! The Homeopath was adamant about that also and went into details about protecting my dog. So on the other hand I cannot believe he would recommend BDN and DARWINS as his two choice raw foods if he did not know they are nutritionally sound.

Maybe we can get to the bottom of this, bec my dog surely loves the food and it would be a sad day for her if I stopped it.

[Nancy C]

Cindy: YES, my golden has eaten it now for a month. breakfast and supper. She LOVES EVERY FLAVOR! and licks the bowl for more. I will add 2oz of Darwins chicken tomorrow, as I said, just to get her on several foods.

Whoever mentioned THK food: It did not go over as well at this house as BDN. However, I added it to kibble and the golden ate the kibble more readily. But I have never seen her so happy over food as she is the BDN.

Maybe we all need to call the company and talk to Chris…. ??

My plan now is to do BDN, Darwins, Answers and OCRaw. I have talked to the owners at Answers and OC Raw and also Vital Essentials. Hopefully can rotate all those. Also want to be able to run to Whole Foods and get some organic chicken some days.

[Nancy C]

Idea: BCNUT – why don’t YOU call them? Chris is very nice and easy to talk to. She told me something like that it was “unfortunate” that the DFA was dissatisfied with their responses (I do not know what they were of course) but that they have moved on and the Food will sell itself. Said that people are LIKING the food and sales continue to increase. Not many work there it seems to me. It feels like Chris herself works in the factory yet is an owner. It’s very hands on among what seems to be just a few people. They seem to work hard but when I talked to her it was clear to me that she cares, and she definitely wants to be helpful to callers.

I’ve said before that when the food arrives the shipping box is ALL TAPED UP to protect the food so no bugs can get into it. Chris told me they do that purposefully. The small packages of food inside the shipping box help preserve freshness. That impresses me. But you know far more about dog food than I do.

I’m starting the Darwins in the morning w the Golden Retriever… mixing it with the BDNatural, 2 oz at breakfast and 2 oz at supper, for 2 days. (That’s my 8 oz patty). Then I will increase from there. I Hope it Works well!

[Nancy C]

I just went to the BDN site to order more food. I saw listed there the Ca and Phos ratios for Chicken formula is 1:56:1, for Turkey is 1:63:1 and for the Tripe formula is 1:75:1. Now, my Q is: Is this acceptable? Interestingly the HOmeopathic vet I have been working with here in NC (he has practiced Homeopathic V M for 30 yrs and allopathic for the first 10 yrs) His name is Charles Loops, DVM and he has a good website. Treats a lot of dogs w cancer. He told me again last week that this food is excellent – that he has Great Danes among his 6 dogs and feeds it to them. Also Darwins. And he feeds other things that he puts tog himself. I mentioned the problem DFA has with them and he stood by BDN 100% and is definitely NOT connected in any way with the food company. So all this remains a mystery to me.
My Golden transitioned to it without one HINT of a problem. Cold turkey. My neighbor’s 3 dogs went cold turkey from kibble also with the same result. The Homeopath says the GSD will be fine on it – cold turkey. I will start him with Chicken/ Turkey and later move to Tripe and Beef. The Golden loves both. Are those bad ratios for Calcium and Phos?

[Martha S]

Hi Cindy!
Right now we are doing about 50% Darwins, and the rest a rotation/combination of Reel Raw, Tuckers, Primal Turkey/Sardine., and Genesis. Sometimes I’ll add a Salmon grain free roll from Freshpet ( the one thing that isn’t raw) or a couple cans of sardines in water. As a treat, he will get Answers unpasteurized goat milk every once in a while.

We tried BDN tripe and it was a big hit with the pup, so I was really hoping to try and inform myself as much as possible as to the protein/fat/carb percentages. It really is a mystery to me why a company wouldn’t share their nutritional percentages. I kind of makes my mind wander…..is there something bad going on? I really want to like this food…sigh…why all the secrecy BDN?