[aimee]

Hi Spy Car,

Cannoli, Is making valid points in regards to feeding bones. Disclosure: When I was a teen I saw a young shepherd choke to death from a bone.. it was a horrible thing to witness.. and no doubt has forever shaped my thoughts on the feeding of bones to dogs.

The risk may be small… and you may think it will never happen to your dog, and most likely it won’t, but what if it does?

I would never be able to forgive myself if my dog choked or had an esophageal or intestinal perforation or a blockage from a bone I gave him/her, which is why I’ll never feed bones. Others may be able to deal with such a situation differently which will lead them to a different choice.

The dental benefits from bone chewing are primarily cosmetic (Clarke 1998) and do not come without dental risk in addition to the risk of death. Since brushing teeth is superior to bone chewing in maintaining dental health there is no “cost” to not offering bone.

Finally, I’m having difficulty in understanding the following statement and hoping you can explain it to me.”The PMR style of feeding with 10% bone keeps the Calcium Phosphorus ratios at the perfect 1.2:1 levels” I did the calculations for an 80/10/10 PMR breakdown and do not get a 1.2:1 ratio. 80 grams chicken breast has 4 mg Ca and 170 mg Phos, 5 grams chicken liver has 0 Ca and 15 mg Phos, 5 grams beef kidney has 1 mg Ca and 13 mg Phos. 10 grams chicken bone has 1800 mg Ca and 830 mg Phos. Adding them all together yields 1,805mg Ca and 1,028mg Phos for a Ca/Phos ratio of 1.75:1 and a mind blowing 16.4 grams Ca/1000 kcals.

Nutrient levels for chicken meat/ liver and beef kidney taken from USDA Nutrient database. Ca and Phos content in chicken bone from Suchy et al 2009 ” Chemical composition of bone tissue in broiler chickens intended for slaughter”

[anonymous]

My 9 pound dog does well on Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea, also the chicken dry, the kibble is small. Check Chewy.com for reviews.
I always add a bite of something like cooked chopped chicken breast (no bones) and a splash of water.
You can soak the kibble in water overnight in the fridg before serving, if need be.

[Spy Car]

Hey Cannoli,

Homes are filled with a myriad of items that can be considered choking hazards for dogs (and children). People starting raw feeding should monitor their dogs to make sure they get the hang of chewing bone (which is about as natural an instinct as canines could have). Feeding larger sized pieces of bone-in parts (like chicken quarters) that can’t be gulped is always smart, as is supervising a dog new to raw feeding.

But dogs are hard wired to chew. The risks of choking on appropriately sized chicken bones are very low and diminish to near zero as dogs get accustomed to it. Intestinal blockages from items like chicken bones are exceedingly rare. I’d worry a lot more about socks.

The calcium (and its bioavailability) from bone is not in question. Concerns about absorption are misplaced. Getting calcium from bone is what canines were shaped by evolution to do. It is superior to artificial supplementation.

The PMR style of feeding with 10% bone keeps the Calcium Phosphorus ratios at the perfect 1.2:1 levels recommended by the leading authorities as optimal. It is spreading a false fear that rotational feedings with calcium supplements are necessary to maintain mineral balances:it simply isn’t so.

The act of chewing is good for dogs. It is relaxing for them. It builds good dental health (encouraging strong gums and clean teeth) and builds strong neck and jaw muscles, in a fashion that feeding calcium powder does not.

If an owner wishes to brush teeth on top of raw feeding, great! I just know how many conventionally fed dogs I know and they nearly all have tartar-stained yellowing (if not rotten teeth) in marked contrast to raw fed dogs whose teeth stay nice and white (with fresh breath).

When we get phobic or fearful about very natural ways of being it has a cost. This is true both with dogs and with children. One can cut off “play” because someone might get hurt, but that comes at a cost. The risks of feeding soft edible bones to dogs is very (very) low, Cutting them out of the diet due to inflated assessments of the risks has a cost.

The advantages to feeding soft edible bone vastly outweigh the risks. Feeding powdered calcium is sub-optimal.

Bill

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.

[Cannoli]

Hi Bill,

even soft edible bone can cause choking hazards if dog is not appropriately trained or supervised. As well as potential intenstinal blockage.

Plus you are never exactly sure how much calcium your dog is absorbing from that edible bone. Hence I always advise in rotational feeding. That includes calcium sources too. Natural organic calcium powder doea not only prevent choking hazards but it is alot easier for a dog’s body to absorb and you know the exact amount of calcium to phosphorus ratio that you are providing.

In regards to dental health, daily teeth brushing has proven to be more effective for dogs than edible bones

[Cannoli]

In regards to your second concern:

#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?

You don’t need to just do bones for calcium..You can use natural supplements like Natural seaweed calcium found on Amazon, or use a bone calcium supplement also found on Amazon (just make sure it is Vitamin D free if you plan to feed organs), or you can use egg shells..

[Spy Car]

As I mentioned in the other thread, both you and your dogs are likely to be a lot better off following a Prey Model diet as opposed to using recipes by Dr Pitcairn that undermine the advantages of a raw diet by including unnecessary (and counterproductive) grains and vegetables and excluding highly positive soft edible bones.

Feeding whole foods in the right ratios will eliminate the need for supplementation, and optimize health. Also easier on you.

Dr Pitcairn’s approach is outmoded and not widely followed or esteemed in the raw feeding community. It is too much like trying to emulate commercial food at home, instead of feeding a natural whole food diet.

As to bones, I don’t personally feed turkey legs, but some people do. I do feed turkey necks. All chicken bones (raw) are good.

Oily-fish is good, but limit to twice a week feedings (not daily) as most of the most-beneficial fish species have a substance that can block Vitamin B12. This substance, called Thaminaise, passes quickly. It is not a big deal unless you feed a lot of fish on a daily basis.

What are health cuts for dogs are cuts that include plenty of fat. Lean cuts, like inexpensive trimmed beef heart and be supplemented with animal fat. Dogs need to transition to fat burning, so better to being with lean meals and work up slowly. And you need organs.

Once growth plateaus you are better feeding once a day (post wind down from the day’s activities). When not fed grains/carbohydrates (as it ideal, and a prime reason to do a raw diet) dogs turn to the superior (for them) fat metabolism. When fat burning dogs have nearly unlimited stores of energy, so don’t need multiple meals throughout the day. Better if durning their active time they run and play on empty stomachs (especially in large breeds that have risks of GVD aka bloat/torsion).

I’d ditch Dr Pitcairn, which is what I’d suspect you’ll hear from virtually all the raw feeders you encounter. It is both a hassle and a diet with highly questionable downsides.

Bill

[Molly F]

I realized I should have posted this as a new topic, not buried at the end of another topic!
So, sorry if it’s a repeat for some:
Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas.
I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?
I know many people recommend a more “primal” style diet, but I’m on a tight budget these days and the grain component will Really help stretch my dollar!

[Spy Car]

Courtney, I’d advocate you really consider PMR.

Feeding soft edible bone (like chicken bones) really isn’t scary. An 80/10/10 model of diverse sources will keep the nutrition on track.

One place where I’d diverge from the advice of some raw feeding websites is on the issue of delaying organs. I think this is a very bad idea on two fronts. One, the nutrients from organs are vital (especially in growing puppies). Two, delay increases the odds of a dog developing an aversion to organs. I’ve read of people delaying organs (and advocating the practice) and then saying they need to virtually force-feed them later (as organs are not optional).

My advice if you choose PMR is to introduce organs as soon as you have stable stools. Organs can lossen stools, so it is a good idea to start adding them in in wee amounts and build up to PMR percentages over time.

Relax about chicken bones. Do monitor the dogs as they start to make sure they are not gulpers (bigger pieces help ensure chewing). There are hard bones that are best avoided to prevent tooth damage, but chicken is easy.

There is no value in adding carbohydrates to the meals. Dogs process fat much more efficiently as their primary energy source, with sustained energy and peak aerobic capacity vs the quick peaks and valleys of carbohydrates that cut stamina and aerobic capacity.

Bill

[Spy Car]

Hey Molly,

I’d suggest you look into the Prey Model of feeding raw foods. I think it would be a better match for your desire to feed whole food ingredients to your dog, and is more healthful than Dr Picairn’s regimen which is heavy on vegetables and grain, and lacks soft edible bone.

Keeping the calcium:phosphorus ratios in the correct target range is important, but by feeding PMR ratios (10% soft edible bone) it is also pretty simple. Dogs get all the nutrients they need from eating diverse animal products.

Following the 80/10/10 model (“meat”/organs/soft edible bones) while diversifying the components is a very straightforward way to feed and get the highest nutritional levels to your dog.

The elaborate recipes of some raw feeding variants put a lot of needless strain on owners, and actually reduce the nutritional value of the diet.

Soft edible bones (like chicken bones) are a great natural source of calcium. Chewing bone also tends to keep dog’s teeth clean, and it promotes strong teeth, strong jaw and neck muscles, and it relaxes dogs to chew.

Best wish on your journey.

Bill

[Molly F]

Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas. I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?

[aimee]

Hi Courtney,

In regards to your questions:

I would get full blood panels on each dog prior to starting your new diet so that you have a baseline to compare back to. I’ve seen it recommended to repeat blood panels every 6 months for dogs on homemade diets.

Some feel comfortable feeding bones.. I do not… I do not think the risk is worth the benefit. If using raw bone as your calcium source I feel finely ground is much safer. Disclosure: I do not feed a raw diet. If I did I’d either use a commercial HPP product or would buy large cuts and partially cook to kill off the bacteria both on the surface and those that have migrated deeper and grind myself. I remain unconvinced that dogs tolerate food borne pathogens significantly better then people do.

What supplements you use are up to your own personal philosophy. The primary concern is that you feed a balanced diet. Unfortunately, when the raw diets that people were feeding have been analyzed, most people who participated in the study did not accomplishing this.

I understand the appeal of a simple 80/10/10 mix but honestly I think it requires just as much attention to detail to balance a raw diet as it does to balance a cooked diet.

There are a few veterinary nutritionists that will balance a raw diet, most will not. Veterinary nutritionists legally can not consult directly with you unless they examine your dog which is why you found that they do not do phone/e mail consults. However they can consult indirectly via your veterinarian. Your vet orders the consult and works with the nutritionist on your behalf.

In regards to carbohydrates, people do not have a dietary requirement for carbohydrates and dogs do not either. Both species require carbohydrate from a metabolic standpoint, the body just has to generate what the diet doesn’t supply. But I don’t understand this statement “Carbohydrates carry significantly less calories by volume than protein does” Protein and carbs are considered to carry the same number of calories /gram, the volumes involved will depend on the water content.

[Spy Car]

There is no doubt about what mineral imbalances are present, because the blood chemistry panel tests for everything. Both his levels of calcium & phosphorous were normal (Ca 9.2 & Phos 4.1), while he displayed no signs whatsoever of liver problems, which is what low ALP usually indicates. So by process of elimination, it was determined that his vitamin D levels were lacking. I have no reason to disbelieve the Vet, and my own research is only confirming what he told me.

********

Have you been feeding PMR levels of liver (5%)? If so, did your vet offer an explanation of how your dog might have a Vitamin D deficiency?

I wonder (and don’t know) over what period of time a blood test establishes a proper calcium-phosphorus balance? Is it a snap-shot in time (and variable in reflecting recent meals, or does it show a longer term value?

Fellow raw feeders should be aware that osteomalacia can be brought on not only by Vitamin D deficiencies, but also by calcium-phosphorus imbalances due to feeding the improper ratios of meat, bones, and organs.

Best wishes with your dog.

Bill

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.

[InkedMarie]

I felt pretty overwhelmed; no lie. I feed grinds because my husband isn’t interested in. True prey model raw but we do feed turkey necks & beef rib bones. For us, grinds are easy: thre the scale, scoop in, add supplements & feed.

I buy from Hare today; Google for the website. There is a ton of info there and if you have questions, email them. Tracy is the owner and very helpful.

[Susan]

Hi Caryn, you have to realise vets aren’t nutritionist & some vets know stuff all about nutrition for dogs & cats….. a good vet would be telling you to feed a balanced raw or cooked diet to your dog & cat, not a kibble….
You should always rotate between a few different brand kibbles & different proteins when feeding a kibble, never just feed the one brand & same protein their whole lives like some people do….also add fresh whole foods to the kibble…. They have found by adding 1 tablespoon of cooked veggies/fruit or a protein to the dogs kibble just 3 times a week can reduce the chances of them getting cancer.. …follow “Rodney Habib” the Pet nutrition blogger on Face Book he’s excellent & it’s so easy to make your dog healthier, happier & live longer…since dogs have been eating just kibble they aren’t living as long as when they were fed table scraps & cooked meals..

When picking a good kibble, look at the ingredients, a good kibble should have at least 3-5 proteins as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th ingredient, then should have a carb like sweet potatoes as the next ingredient….. also when the ingredients are written, the ingredients are raw, not cooked yet except if it says meal eg, chicken meal, lamb meal, duck meal etc also the ingredient list is written on weight, so when ingredients are cooked the ingredients shrink, especially proteins/meats, a good kibble should read Lamb, then Lamb Meal, chicken meal, or turkey, turkey meal, chicken meal etc when it says meal there’s more meat cause the meal is cooked meats dried & made into powder form (meal) but when it just say chicken or lamb or duck, it’s raw & hasn’t been cooked yet it needs the meal to follow, duck then duck meal or chicken then chicken meal etc… also if it say’s fish or ocean fish you want to know what type of fish it is?? it should say salmon, salmon meal or Whitefish, Sardines or Anchovy …..
Have a look at “Canidae” Pure formulas grain free & their Life Stages formulas, their Life Stages, All Life Stages formula is a good kibble, it has 4 high quality meat meals, chicken, turkey, lamb & fish & is a pretty good price when you buy a 20kg bag, then look for another premium kibble & I rotate in the same day some times, I give Patch his “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain for breakfast then he has Canidae Life Stages formula for dinner when I forget to take out his cooked meal out of freezer…. Some people rotate when the bag of kibble is down too 1/4 of the bag left then start adding & mixing in the next new kibble your going to feed, after you have rotated a few different kibbles you don’t really need to slowly introduce anymore……You will see a difference when your dog is feed a better quality kibble that agrees with him, they have more energy, their coat shines, their poos are firm & smaller…. then pick about 3 different kibbles with different proteins & fed them but still keep your eye out for another kibble to try that’s on special or new..
Go onto the “Review” section & start looking at 3-5 star kibbles, I prefer a kibble with less ingredients, limited ingredient kibbles & I add fresh cooked food to the kibble, tin sardines in oil/spring water are excellent, I add tin Salmon in spring water, you ban add the salmon bones, you give about 3 small sardines or 1/4 of the small tin, also veggies broccoli, berries, apple, I fed pieces of peeled seeded apple, watermelon, rock melon as treats also yogurt Patch gets 1 heap spoon yogurt at 11 am every day now….3-4 years ago if I gave Patch anything different in his diet he’d have diarrhea, gas/farts, bad wind pain, rumbling, grumbling bowel noises, he’s a rescue that was feed a very poor diet & now has IBD & Skin & Food sensitivities…. Good Luck
*Canidae- http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
*Sport Dog Elite Series- http://www.sportdogfood.com/dog-food/active-sporting/performance/
*Taste Of The Wild- http://www.tasteofthewild.com.au
*California Natural- http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products

[Courtney R]

So, I’m considering switching my dogs to a raw diet and I’m inwhat I’d call a “researching” phase. Did anyone else feel totally overwhelmed when starting this process or is that just me? Lol

Short background: I have a 60 lb ACD mix that is roughly 7 (Burke) and a 12 lb Pomchi that is 5 (Miles). They’ve been on Orijen for the past couple of years and so far as stools go it seems to agree with them. However, Burke has started getting lick granulomas roughly 2x per year, Miles chronically seems “yeasty”, they’ve both had UTIs this year and we got fleas for the first time ever this summer which has been an utter nightmare. My vet of course gave antibiotics for the UTIs but seems to not be concerned about the other stuff. But to me it seems their immune systems aren’t up to snuff and diets the easiest way at it.

Currently I have 3 questions which might seem totally unrelated:
#1. Should I have a blood panel done prior to starting raw just to be certain there isn’t any reason why it’d be unhealthy to switch them to raw? Seeing as they’re both having issues I’m doubting that would be the case, but I’m a worrier 😉

#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?

#3. They already get coconut oil, yogurt or kefir, salmon oil and digestive enzymes. Could I continue these through the transition or should I hold off and give their stomachs time to adjust to raw food? Also, any supplements that they absolutely NEED to have or is this kind of just up to me?

Sorry this wasn’t as short as I’d hoped but thanks so much for any help. This forum has already been a big assistance and I can’t wait to learn more from you guys!

[Philip L. P]

Milk Bones? Bad for your dogs, are you all freakin kidding me!

I don’t feed my dogs any form of dog food, I’ve moved the plants that make this stuff and I can guarantee you you’ll never see a filthier place! That my friends goes for those of the better brands also! Wouldn’t feed my dogs a Raw diet either… fresh, cooked, and frozen human food. As to the Milk Bones that’s a whole different story… I heard story’s about the video and claims that are supposed to state scientific fact that Milk Bones are bad for your dogs… and it all has been debunked as hogwash! There’s never been any such scientific study done on any of that. Not saying it is anything other than what it is meant to be ie.. a treat, treats aren’t supposed to be necessarily healthy same as candy for kids, liquor for adults, or drugs for addicts. But when it comes to Milk Bones you won’t find a better bone for your dog to chew on, or one that will keep your dogs teeth and breath clean. They aren’t supposed to be a meal, or even a supplement… they are supposed to be a treat and one that keeps the dogs teeth in good order. That has always worked for me, none of my dogs have ever had cavity’s, broken teeth, or even yellow teeth even in old age. Milk Bones have been around for over a hundred years and made in the USA. Keep giving your dogs those Nalgene bones and keep taking your dogs to the vets for dental work… as to the use of preservatives of any kind, use common sense in judging the produce, you can’t get away from their use completely. Some of you people take this stuff way too far! I get a kick out of hearing how well you all feed and take care of your dogs and cats, and then leave them play by them selves with toys that were made in china, let them alone out in the yard that has been sprayed with lawn and garden insecticides, fertilizers, and poisonous plants, animals take in more toxins than they’d ever get from Milk Bones from just being in your home. Crap think of all the stuff you all just use on your carpets, cleaners that you use on your floors, ant and roach killers that you use under your counters. You all are taking this healthier food stuff way too far sometimes, hell a couple hot dogs are better than no food at all. Give them love, companionship, a place to live, food and medical care when they need it and most times they’ll live to a good old age. Do what you can afford for your animals, its better than them being out on the streets on their own.

[christine k]

I have a service dog and she attends grad school with me. Wednesdays is our long days; eleven hours straight and she mostly sits still or rest, so by the end of the day, she’s pretty restless. She is 5 years old, 18-20 lbs, and a terrier mix.

What treats can I give her that isn’t big or gets terribly soggy, smelly and gross and will hold her attention at least 30-60 minutes? She doesn’t like rawhide or Himalayan bones very much. I’ve given her Busy Bones and she likes them and they last, but they’re a bit expensive.

[Spy Car]

If you’ve been feeding Prey Model Raw levels of liver (5%) I’d suspect the cause of the Osteomalacia was due to an imbalance in calcium to phosphorus levels in the diet, as opposed to insufficient Vitamin D.

Feeding 10% bone (as the PRM calls for) should keep Ca:P near the optimal 1.2:1 ratio. Unfortunately too many raw feeders are contemptuous of the need to maintain the correct mineral balance by carefully considering the amount of meat vs bones (and organs) are being fed, and too often too much bone gets fed as a result. Too little bone (relative to meat) can also be a problem with Osteomalacia.

I’d advise doubling down on your understanding of the edible bone content in the ingredients you are feeding with a determined effort put into balancing the calcium:phorosphus ratios in the diet, as this is the likely source of the problem.

Bill

[HoundMusic]

Thank you for sharing. Your story could be helpful to other raw/homemade feeders. Of course he decided to show symptoms on a Holiday! That’s what they do. Lol!

Ha! It’s a tradition in my household that dogs will get sick, specifically on Labor Day. My first Beagle, and two others aside from Toby, all needed emergency Vet treatment on that holiday. Not even joking.

But in all seriousness, you could have knocked me over with the ghost of a feather when the Vet said rickets. I am no raw novice and thought myself more Vit. D conscientious than that. I give raw yolks and butter along with bones specifically for the Vit. D content, and still, this happened, so I am hoping other raw feeders will read this and double check their diet plans…

ETA: Also wanted to add that I was giving cod liver oil way back when I began raw feeding, and it seems I’ll have to start doing that again, if my other sources aren’t providing enough.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by HoundMusic.

[HoundMusic]

I’m a newbie to these forums, but am no novice to raw feeding – been doing raw in some form, either 100% or as a supplement for about 15yrs now. Since 2014, its been an all raw, prey model type diet consisting mostly of chicken quarters pork meat and neck bones, a variety of organ meats (but mostly beef liver), ground beef, egg yolks, turkey necks and occasional meats like lamb ribs, fish or ground turkey. They also get “extras” and leftovers that amount to a small portion of the diet.

That aside, I’ve been noticing all summer that Toby, an intact male Beagle who will be 11yrs in October, hasn’t seemed in the greatest health, but there was nothing specific I could point my finger at, so I chalked it up to age. Fleas have been plaguing him, which made me further suspect something was wrong, especially after treatment did very little to help.

Over the past few days, the fleas have been back with a vengeance untold, and this morning, out of the blue, Toby came back in from the yard, lay down in a corner, and wouldn’t get up. There were no other symptoms, just a sudden lameness that seemed to pass in a few minutes. But it was very worrying, and he seems to have lost some weight in the past few days, so I decided it was Vet time. That, and in May, he had a partial obstruction from a pork neck bone, and the Vet told me then the only abnormality of the blood test results was “elevated liver enzymes”. So of course, my first thought is possible liver failure going on here :/

It was no fun finding a Vet on Labor Day, let me tell you, but we seemed to get a competent one, for once. I did NOT mention Toby is raw fed, btw. Another CBC was done, and like before, everything came back smack in the middle of normal – except, his ALP levels (alkaline phosphatase) were once again high (@ 228). But with no other signs of liver abnormalities in the blood results, this Vet was as stumped as the first one was as to why it should be elevated, unless it was osteomalacia, which he said was odd in a dog Toby’s age.

When I asked what precisely that was, the Vet told me I already knew it by a more common name. Rickets. Or rather, it’s technically called rickets before the growth plates close, and osteomalacia is the adult version.

I may have emitted an expletive, because how else can a dog get rickets, save for a home made diet that has been lacking in Vitamin D? I haven’t had the greatest luck with Vets in my life, but I was grateful that when I did mention raw feeding, all I got was the Knowing Look, an admonition that Toby would not be the first raw fed dog he’d seen with rickets (!!!), and a prescription for Vitamin D tablets for dogs. He did not try to push kibble on me or say another word about raw… he didn’t need to 🙁

Don’t have the faintest idea where we’re going from here, but Toby is on his Vit D and does not seem to be holding the incident against me. I’ve had my stumbling blocks with raw in the past, which is why I usually limited it to supplementation, but this has to be the worst problem I’ve ever had diagnosed. And honestly, if not for the strain put on his health with the fleas, I would never have noticed anything out of the ordinary with this dog. He seemed perfectly healthy otherwise.

So. Just blowing off some steam at the day’s events, my own stupidity, and thought this might be interesting fodder for other raw feeders. And btw, I am told that bad teeth can be a dead giveaway symptom of rickets, as well, and yet, Toby has the best teeth out of everybody…

• This topic was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by HoundMusic.

[HoundMusic]

Would you be willing to offer a raw knuckle bone? Those, IMO, do WAY better than CET chews for teeth

Knuckle bones are a great way to fracture teeth, especially in small/medium breeds. Just with pork necks on 25lb (ish) dogs was enough to break molars, and cause a stress crack in the front canine of a 65lb Shepherd mix. I remember about 15-16 years ago, when raw was called “BARF”, some owners used to feed knuckle or marrow bones as recreational bones, and they soon developed the nickname “wreck bones”, for all the damage they did to teeth.

[HoundMusic]

It might be the protein levels in the food are too high. Phosphorous is a mineral that “tags along” with protein – i.e., the higher the protein levels in a feed, the higher the phos. will be. And if that is the case, it could be affecting the dog’s kidney function, which is a major cause of inexplicably bad teeth in young dogs.

Some dogs do naturally have a tendency to build up tartar, but there is plenty that can be done with diet to prevent it. Try a lower protein feed or one that specifically has been formulated for dental health. Several years ago, I had to put an older dog on Science Diet Oral Care, because at 2yrs old, her teeth were practically rotting out of her mouth after whelping a litter. Still don’t know the underlying cause for it, but I gave her the kibble pieces as treats, and it did help. I don’t care for the SD brand and wouldn’t recommend it, but there are certainly other brands that do make similar foods.

And just as an aside, in a bad case, the “bumpy” Nylabones and rawhides might also be of some help.

[Kristi G]

I am having a problem with my 12-year-old Yorkie, we have a weight problem.

She should be at 7-7.5 pounds but we are pushing 8.5-9 pounds. I was feeding her Wellness Core and that nipped the problem in the bud. Her weight was down, she loved the food, and felt healthier than ever. Then, the vet said her kidney levels were a little high and advised me to not feed her a high protein food and feed her a senior food instead. I then used the site again and started using Blue Wilderness Senior Grain Free, she was back up in weight in no time. We don’t do treats or bones so no culprit there. Pet Smart recommended Wellness Complete Health Senior, but she won’t eat the food so I can’t tell if it will work or not. We are still in the process of switching. She’s not typically a fickle eater and is usually quite the opposite-always ready to eat. But she turns her nose up to Wellness Complete Health Senior.

I want a dry (teeth are good), 5 Star Senior Food that won’t make her fat and will keep her at a Healthy Weight. Anyone have any recommendations? I’ve been trying to find something right for her for almost 2 years now and am desperate to find the right thing for my baby.

[sophia s]

Have you tried himalayan dog chews? My dog goes nuts for these.
I also like Merrick’s grain-free dental chews and Zuke’s Zbones.

If you don’t find a suitable chew option, you might consider toothpaste for dogs. I brush my dog’s teeth with CET’s Enzymatic Poultry Flavor toothpaste–he loves it. It’s a treat for him, and if you have dog(s) that won’t allow you to brush their teeth, I know that some people have had success with squeezing some toothpaste on a cotton rope toy and letting their dogs clean their teeth that way.

Hope this helps! Good luck with your search!

[anonymously]

Environmental allergies wax and wane, they get worse with age.

Tried raw diets and bones, ended up at the emergency vet x2 ($)
No thank you. To each his own.

PS: I am sure there is a veterinary dermatologist closer to you. Just ask your current vet for a referral……or maybe she can suggest treatment for the Canine Atopic Dermatitis your dog appear to be suffering from (based on your description of symptoms)

[Jessica K]

My dog (1year old 12 pound Dachshund mix) has had a number of allergic reactions to different brands of kibble including Blue Buffalo and Merrick so my last vet asked if I wanted to try to switch him to a raw diet. After some research, we decided to switch him over and follow the raw meaty bones diet guidelines. Since then, he has been primarily fed either chicken legs or wings with eggs, organ meat and some vegetables to supplement. I have recently started to add goat milk and/or kefir when I can.

I was planning on switching his primary source of bone/protein around to fish or beef but haven’t gotten a chance to do so.

He was due for his vaccines and because I moved, we took him to a new vet. Once she found out that he was on a raw diet of mostly chicken wings and legs, she flipped out and told me I was abusing my dog. I asked her what I was doing wrong or if she had recommendations on a different raw feeding style but she ignored me and told me that if I didn’t switch him back to kibble, that she would take him away. I tried to explain his allergic reactions and even politely asked about what to do if he was on a kibble diet and had an allergic reaction but she gave me no answer.

Am I genuinely doing something wrong? Is this somewhat of a common reaction and has anyone dealt with a similar situation before?

Notes:
His allergic reaction mostly consists of a skin reaction but he does have the occasional ear infection. His skin reaction starts off with him turning bright pink/red, bumps and then blisters.
The original vet recommended the chicken wings and legs because of his size. I did manage to find him turkey necks once (rather hard to find in my area) but had to cut it into smaller chunks.

[Nanci Jo M]

I switched my pit to an all raw food diet. This one is dehydrated and I prepare it with hot water. This diet has literally cured her food allergies. She had been on many versions of grain free, and different proteins. She licked her feet until they bled. The raw diet has cured her symptoms, however she has lost 10 pounds and is skin and bones. She is also constantly hungry. I feed her the recommended amount and have also supplemented with flax oil and probiotics. She also gets additional vegetables and some fruit. Any ideas why she continues to lose weight?
I am testing her stool tomorrow for worms.he has already been to the vet and is otherwise in good health.

[pitlove]

Hi Jo C-

AAFCO does not have a nutrient profile at this time for a senior dog. Senior dog formulas are simply an adult maintenance diet, usually with lower protein, fat and calories. Many here, including myself do not use a senior formula for their senior pets. For my 8 year old Lab, I simply monitor his calories closely and make sure that he maintains an ideal weight.

Keeping senior dogs (and really any dog of any age) at at 4/9 on the Purina Body Condition Score, is of uttmost importance. This keeps stress off their joints, bones, heart etc. According to research done by Purina, a dog kept at ideal weight can have their life extended by 15% (1.8 years). I would say this is one of the most important things to help keep senior dogs healthy.

What are you feeding currently? Is she healthy? Good weight or overweight? Good bloodwork? 13 is a very good age for a pitbull. It sounds to me like whatever you have been doing thus far is working well.

[wendy w]

I sure need some help please! A little history first. I have a 5lb chihuahua who is 11 years old who developed chronic constipation. I have taken her to the vet and she put her on Hill’s prescription diet (digestive care i/d canned) plus the vet prescribed probiotics. I have been doing some research and learning Hill’s has caused many pets to become sicker over time. This does not sit well with me. I would like to make her food so I know what is going into it and she will be happy and healthy.

I came across a website that gave me a simple recipe of baked chicken with skin and fat but bones removed, boiled egg, egg shell finely grounded and white rice. At this website they said this is not a well balanced diet by itself and supplements will be needed to make it so. So I bought their supplement to add to her food. Their directions say to make sure to fast you dog for 24 hours and to feed half of what she normally eats after the fast and to only give a 1/4 of the supplement. Basically, wean her into it for a few days so her digestive tract will get used to her new diet this made sense to me. After a few days gradually increase both amounts of food as well as the supplement….and I did!

Well, it all went south there after. I did fast my baby and only gave her a 4 tablespoons twice a day for 2 days and then added on the 3rd day a sprinkle of the supplement. What a nightmare there after. She had diarrhea everywhere. I called the vet she said to add a little plain pumpkin( not the pie mix) I did, and that seemed to help but my baby hates pumpkin so after a few times she refused to eat. So I figured she was doing better so I removed the pumpkin and the diarrhea came back. I also just tried just giving her the chicken recipe without the supplement to see if it was that causing the diarrhea but no she got it just from eating 4 tablespoons of the chicken, rice, hard boiled egg, and egg shells.

My chi is a very finicky eater and does not like most things. Does any one have any suggestions on what I can feed her so she doesn’t get diarrhea as well as constipation.

Sorry this was so long!!!!
Thank you in advance, I appreciate everyone’s help!!

[anonymously]

I have gotten away from canned food, I prefer chopped up cooked lean meat, chicken, scrambled egg or a bite of canned tuna added to a quality kibble with water added.
That’s what’s working for my pack.
I am boiling a chicken right now, messy and time consuming, but the broth and chicken can be frozen (small servings in baggies) so it is cost effective.
Make sure you defat the broth before serving/freezing, and discard most of the chicken meat due to the small hidden bones.

[zcRiley]

I have tried all bones of all kinds and some are just downright dangerous, one snag in the tract and it’s over. Surgery won’t even save your dog. I only now trust Barkworthies Odor-Free Joint & Mobility 6″ Bully Sticks Dog Treats and Zuke’s Dental Bones in berry crisp formula.

I do not give it daily either, chewing things do not clean away plaque and bacteria. I use Virbac’s C.E.T. Enzymatic Toothpaste in vanilla-mint flavor. My boys don’t like brushes so I scrub with a thin cotton towel wrapped around my finger. I only brush the stubborn stains on the back tooth.

[Laura M]

I use antlers, the ones that are cut down the middle and expose a large section of the inner portion are really good for chewing. I also use rawhide, but the only brand I buy is Wholesome Hide, made in the USA and of superior quality. Of course you always have to watch, as you mention, no matter what you give them to chew. Another thing I use is made by Zuke’s, dental bones carrot flavor. I know they were bought by a large company but the quality doesn’t seem to have changed and my dogs love them. Good luck in finding things both you approve of and your dogs like.

[Linda J]

I don’t give my dog rawhide bones, unless I’m watching, and even then I don’t like to give them because of processing. They do wonders at keeping my dogs teeth clean though. What other chew items are good for scrubbing teeth? My dog doesn’t like nylabones at all. And I know real bones can splinter, whether they are cooked or not. What’s left???

[Raava]

Hi all, just joined b/c I have an unusual question…

I just started my dog on a full raw diet again. He’s a 30lb, 10yo husky mix. Tried it before but couldn’t keep up the expense, and he’s eaten raw on and off throughout his life.

This time I’m a little bit “OCD” about making sure he’s not lacking in any nutrients. lol I give him a pretty balanced diet: Mostly red meat like beef and pork, pork bones, chicken quarters, gizzards, eggs, chicken and beef liver, beef kidney, canned mackerel, salmon, and sardines, kefir sometimes, and salmon oil (b/c I’m paranoid about the mercury in even small fish). I’m swapping the chicken out for turkey now though (both ground and bone-in) b/c I kind of suspect a chicken allergy, but I’m not sure. He even gets oysters for the extra zinc, and a liquid vitamin E supplement.

I recently noticed that iron seems low though, and I got him some baby clams to supplement it since those are super high in iron, but then I read about cadmium in them and other heavy metals that can accumulate (might be the same with oysters, I don’t know anymore). -_- It’s always something. I discovered that spleen is high in iron too, but I can’t get my hands on that.

So I was thinking about how wolves in the wild eat… they kill their prey and eat/drink some of the blood as well while they’re gnawing on their meat, right? Well blood has plenty of iron in it… but I can’t buy fresh blood. I’ve even read it’s illegal to sell (not sure on location). So the next best thing is blood meal.

Would adding blood meal be a good idea as an iron supplement? (I’ve calculated the amount of iron in it and know how much he would need, roughly 2g, give or take.) Or do I sound like a lunatic? xD I’m just slightly paranoid about him getting ALL the right amounts of nutrients he needs. I know they say “balance over time”, but even then, the raw diet seems low in a lot of things. Particularly, zinc, iron, magnesium, potassium, vitamin e, and manganese.

Since I added more red meat and the oysters to his diet, his coat is getting a lot better. It was unusually dry-ish before, and not soft and shiny like you typically see with a raw diet.

And to add another thing: I really wish I knew the nutrient content of bones! I read there’s some magnesium, potassium, zinc and other things in them, but there’s no info to say how much. So there’s no telling what he’s getting from the bone content too.

As I mentioned in the beginning, he’s 10 years old already and I want him to live forever, basically…. lmao So that’s why I’m a little paranoid about him getting everything he needs. Sorry for being long-winded, and thanks to anyone who reads this. lol

• This topic was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Raava.

[Angie M]

I’m new to homemade as well, muddling through.
I have been using Dr. Karen becker’s book and it’s a little complicated at first and my dog isn’t crazy about the combinations I’ve tried. So I’m still looking for the right recipe. She does stress the importance of adding the correct amounts of vital mimetals and vitamins as well as other additions.
Important to include bone meal if your cooking the meats with out bones. Cooked bones aren’t safe, hard to digest.
Real food for healthy dogs and cats is her book.

[anonymously]

Because, many health disorders are genetic. We all know people that eat at McDonalds every day, smoke and drink alcohol, and yet they live till age 90.
Others run every day, are on a healthy diet, stay fit, abstain from bad habits and drop dead before age 50.
No guarantees. Of course it makes sense to go with a quality food within one’s budget…but that doesn’t prevent bad stuff from happening.

PS: Regarding “Tasty dog food for a very fussy dog” just put a spoonful of homemade chicken broth (boiled chicken with nothing added) on the kibble, defatted, debone the chicken and serve later but discard most of it because of the tiny bones. You can freeze servings in individual baggies.

[anonymously]

The question the op posted was regarding loose stools, the poster also implied that the dog was under the care of a veterinarian and the dog’s condition had not improved to his satisfaction. It was not clear if medical issues were ruled out or what might be causing the loose stools in the first place, other than dog food.

Regarding raw food:
ER visit #1 and #2 GI distress and blockage, due to gnawed/finely ground up bone turning into cement-like substance in stomach and colon. Dog was in pain and distress and unable to have a bowel movement without crying. Dog had to be followed for a few days to make sure the cement moved otherwise surgery would have been necessary.
Vet visit for broken tooth (not a clean break) causing pain after gnawing on a “raw meaty bone” Extraction needed.
Other problems associated with raw food with dogs in my care: nausea, vomiting, diarrhea.
In general, GI disturbance.
So, it’s not something I’ll try again. I have other concerns also, I prefer food to be cooked.
Especially meat, chicken, egg, fish, for obvious reasons.
Since brushing their teeth daily very rarely have they needed professional dental cleanings, so I don’t believe that bones are necessary. I find other things they can chew on, like playing ball to exercise the jaw.

[InkedMarie]

I don’t think deciding on a dog food is a serious issue needing a vets advice.
I don;t avoid vets…..except regarding nutrition 🙂
I feed raw but I don’t push it. What happened that you ended up at the ER vets? I feed ground raw with bones to gnaw on for dental health & some turkey necks as well.

[anonymously]

Cow ears would be processed the same way that pigs ears are.

Maybe this article will help: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/blog/harmful-side-animal-sourced-dog-chews excerpt below, click on link to view full article.

•Cow hooves and pigs ears are what the name implies.
•Marrow bones are from the long bones of cows and pigs.
•Rawhides are the skin of cows.
•Antlers come from either deer or elk.
•So what do you think bully sticks are? Think about this one. Give up? They are bull penises! Hmm.

There are some dangers with all of these items. All of these have the potential and can cause intestinal obstructions, but equally important are the dangers that come from the way these are processed. They are first soaked for hours in a caustic lye solution to digest the undesirables off the skin and then to remove the lye the skin is then soaked in bleach solution. Sounds yummy. Many of the rawhides come from China where they have been known to use arsenic compounds to preserve them.

There is no regulation of rawhides or pigs ears. You really have no idea where these come from.

[Josh H]

I have heard negative things about Pig Ears, Cow Hooves, Raw Hide (really bad) and of course bones, but I haven’t really heard a lot of bad things about Cow ears. Are cow ears a safer alternative to a pig ear?

Also, would they be OK for a puppy?

[pitlove]

Hi Andrea-

Welcome and congrats! I love Cane Corso’s! That is the next breed I plan on owning 🙂

I can certainly understand how crazy you must feel right now worrying about the best food to feed him. There are so many choices now for large/giant breed puppy foods, how can you possibly pick a best one?

Obviously calcium levels are of upmost importance, but so are other things like digestability, palatability, bioavailablity just to name a few. Also because growth for large and giant breeds is such an important and critical time in their life, I do prefer (but am not commited to) brands that have nutritionists staffed or consult with nutritionists to forumlate the food. Since I’m relying on this food to provide everything for my puppy in the proper amounts, I place value on that. Most of the companies that do that are larger companies that have more resources because of more money. I do understand however, that many people do not feel comfortable using brands of food from larger companies like Purina and Hill’s. A food I would highly consider looking into if you do not want to use a product from Purina or Hill’s is Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free). It is formulated by a vet and a veterinary nutritionist and has gone through feeding trials. Another brand I also really like is NutriSource because of it’s high digestability and palatability.

Another huge thing that people overlook with growing large breed puppies is by all means keep them lean! It keeps stress off the joints and growing bones and can also greatly help reduce the risk for bone disorders during growth and later in life. You can use the Purina Body Condition Score to access his weight and make sure he is staying at a 4/9.

Best of luck! Post some pictures if you can when you get him!

[InkedMarie]

Jasmine,
Is your dog eating bones as well?

[pitlove]

Hi anonymously-

I think you might be misunderstanding what we are talking about regarding spay and neuter in large and giant breeds and/or you may be unfamiliar with how pediatric altering effects growth.

We are not talking about waiting to spay or neuter a dog at old age, we are talking about waiting until the dog’s growth plates have fully closed before spaying or neutering (which for many large and giant breed is between 18 and 24 months). It is much healthier than pediatric altering and allows the bones to grow properly.

[Acroyali]

At 5 months, teething may be an issue. Will he still eat the grinds? I had a dog back off bones considerably as he aged, his problem as an adult dog was a stomach issue that’s since been resolved, but I lowered his bone intake considerably. At 5 months, I’d lean towards teething. What breed?

[Dennis L]

My puppy has been on a raw diet since we got him. We feed a combination of food from My pet carnivore including tripe, whole ground rabbit, whole ground chicken, pork, and beef. I give him raw meaty bones everyday. He was doing great on the bones and even was eating turkey necks, but last week he started chewing all of the meat off the bone and leaving the rest. I tried giving him a chicken thigh and then I went down to chicken wings. He eats the meat off of each bone and leave the rest. He used to crunch the bones up like they were nothing, but he has no interest now.
I know he needs more than the 10 percent bone that is in his ground food so I have been adding bone meal to his food to supplement. I am really not comfortable with this as I don’t want to give him too much calcium. I am wondering if teething is an issue and if anyone has had this problem and if their pups started back up on the bones. Thanks

[CircaRigel]

It’s been a while, and I thought I’d provide an update on Galen, now 19 months old, technically an adolescent for a giant breed (Shiloh Shepherd), but no longer a puppy. However, I did go through a number of adjustments to his diet as he grew up, and thought I’d discuss them. I’ll first discuss kibbles, since that is generally the area where improper calcium and phosphorus content causes problems. Brands discussed include Eukanuba, Holistic Select (and other WellPet brands), Canidae, Taste of the Wild, Fromms, Tripett, and my absolute favorite and the most impressive, nutritionally… Darwin’s Natural Selections. I will also briefly touch on treats. Every choice I’ve made for Galen has come about via extensive research, wanting only the very best for Galen’s growth and health, for he is training as my service dog. My first responsibility is to him, even before looking after myself, for it is his responsibility to always be looking after me. Besides… I consider him family on equal par to my most beloved family members. I have linked the Dog Food Advisor pages for Galen’s finalized diet at the bottom of this post.

Galen’s breeder weaned her litter on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy diet. After his adoption, I transitioned him to Fromm’s, which is what his breeder now weans her puppies on, but his stools were often quite soft. There was a brief period when I tried Holistic Select Large breed puppy, but rapidly transitioned away from it when Galen became ill. As it happens, ALL kibble foods made by WellPet (Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, Eagle Pack) contain green tea extract. While the very small amounts are probably not harmful to most dogs, particularly since it’s being taken with food, I found a number of studies that were halted because of dogs dying after being given green tea extract on an empty stomach. There is no way I can know for certain, but I suspect Galen is somehow particularly susceptible to toxic effects from it, even in small doses. So I began researching foods, and I liked the nutrition profile for some of the Canidae varieties, and while they were not specifically puppy or large breed diets, I contacted Canidae to make sure I chose a variety with the proper calcium and phosphorus ratios for proper bone growth (Canidae has recently been shifting their manufacturing away from Diamond pet foods, with a new processing plant in California). He did well on this, but didn’t like it much. Since he’s rather thin (but not so much as to be unhealthy, according to his vets at Alameda East, the same hospital where Animal Planet’s “Emergency Vets” was filmed, as it’s closest to where I live), I decided to change things up again when he was about a year old. Since he now was at an age where his calcium metabolism was properly established (generally puppies older than 8 months old can properly metabolize calcium, without the need to limit it so much), it broadened the choices of available foods for him. So, I made a list of grain free foods on Dog Food Advisor with 4+ ratings, focusing especially on 5 star rated foods, and ordered a bunch of sample packs for him to try from K9Cuisine. Of all of the foods he tried, he preferred the 5 star rated varieties of Taste of the Wild best. While I’m not fond of the record of Diamond pet foods, I trust the ratings of Dog Food Advisor (except the high ratings of kibbles by WellPet brands, for the previously mentioned Green Tea toxicity risk). Anyway, to keep things interesting for his palate, I now transition between the three 5 star rated varieties of TOTW for dry food.

Canned foods: From very early on, I had Galen eating Tripett green beef tripe as his wet food. I chose this because green tripe contains the nutrients of what the cow ate as well as the nutritional value and digestive enzymes that are naturally inherent to tripe. I have tried other varieties of canned foods, but Galen usually turns his nose up at them after a few days, when the novelty wears off. There has been a single exception, though, which I also supplement his diet with. That is Darwin’s Natural Selections raw foods. Back when I was letting Galen choose from among the samples I got for him, I also got the $15 introductory sample of the Darwin’s food (10 lbs variety pack), which included free shipping on dry ice. Their foods are raw, made from free-range, organic animal sources and organic vegetables. They come in easy to open plastic packets. Dog Food Advisor not only rates it 5 stars, but enthusiastically recommends the foods. They have never had a recall. I was quite surprised to find that the food was packaged and frozen just a few days before it shipped to me. Now, Once you have had the trial and go to their subscription plan, the cost is far higher, plus shipping on dry ice. It’s too high for me to feed to Galen exclusively or even as half his diet, so I subscribe to it as a supplement to his regular diet, feeding him 2 lbs a week. I get him all varieties, which include chicken, turkey, duck, beef, and bison. Of all of the foods I’ve ever fed a dog, This has been by far of the highest quality I’ve encountered.

Galen is incredibly picky even with treats, generally preferring single-ingredient, meat based treats. These have included Simply Lamb (freeze dried lamb), PureBites freeze dried chicken breast, PureBites freeze dried duck liver, and Primal freeze dried Nuggets (lamb), although the nuggets I use more as an occasional supplement rather than a treat. Galen turns his nose up at most other treats, even jerky treats. That’s fine by me. I rather like seeing only one ingredient listed, which leaves me zero doubts of there being anything in it that is unnecessary to his health (i.e. preservatives).

On a final note, around holidays I like to make a turkey stock from the leftovers and carcass (bones removed, of course, after cooking so that nutrients specific to the bones leach into the stock, like the marrow). That turkey stock is for Galen, as a special treat supplementing his food.

So… Galen’s final adult diet:
Taste of the Wild (wetlands, High Prairie, and Canyon varieties)
Tripett Green Beef Tripe
Darwin’s Natural Selections raw (beef, bison, chicken, turkey, and duck)

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.

[Shauna A]

How long is it safe to keep a raw meaty bone around for my dog to chew on? Can I keep it out or does it need to be frozen or refrigerated in between chew sessions? It’s a beef knuckle that he’s cleaned off, for the most part, but there are still small remnants of ligaments/tendons. Any input is appreciated. Thanks!

[Kim M]

Jacob,

We recently got our Charcoal lab (she’s 10 weeks tomorrow) and decided upon Earthborn’s Coastal Catch. I’m quite sure she would never turn down any food (ha) but her stools have been great on it and the kibble size is good for a pup. You can also easily switch between a few flavors as the formulas are the same.

Fromm and Wellness Core were also considered as possible brands. Our stores have nice sized samples so we picked some up to try out. She is currently at 75/25 mix as we are phasing out the Country Vet food she had been on with the breeder. I focused my study mostly on the calcium/phos ratio to be sure we don’t grow joints and bones too quickly.

Ellie’s mom is 65 while her dad is now 85. We are sure we may have a larger lab on our hands.

[Caryl R]

Thanks for the link! I have read that blog before and I like the scientific/no bs approach of the author. Maybe I will not get the Lyme vac anymore. One of my dogs had Lyme when I rescued her. She was skin and bones and in horrible condition. Because she had Lyme’s I gave her the vac and thought it was a good idea for my other 2 babies. Hmmm. Rethinking this now. 🙂

[Elinor M]

Only need to give Coconut oil (about 1/2-1 tsp per feeding) and maybe the addition of fiber (oat bran, about 1 tsp per feeding). No need to brush teeth if giving raw chicken wings (cut in half depending on size of dog). I raw feed and mix with kibble (3/4 cup kibble and remainder raw ground meat or ground turkey and also oftentimes add some sardines [omegas], mashed unadulterated sweet potatoes [about 1 lg soup spoon] and plain low fat yogurt [Fage brand is the best there is] and sometimes blueberries [about 1/2 cup per feeding once/wk] and sometimes 1/2 banana cut into chunks, other times steamed green beans, or steamed frozen peas, they like carrots too but must be cooked to soft stage, sometimes steamed cauliflower or chopped spinach and try to remember to top whatever I fix with Cilantro [detox]. My dogs are 6 mo old, eat 3 meals per day (until they’re 1 yr old). Sometimes I only give them couple chicken wings for mid-day meal and they seem to do real well. I also add to their meals twice/day Transfer Factor Canine Formula for all the nutrients I’m not able to provide by raw/kibble feeding. It’s expensive but lasts a really really long time between my 2 dogs which are: A Red Haired Golden Retriever and a German Shorthaired Pointer who are both very very active and healthy and have soft coats and clear eyes and very very white teeth (from the bones which contain calcium). Sometimes I also put a raw egg into their food which they love (using only some of the egg shell for the calcium which I sort of hand pulverize). Golden Retriever has been spayed and recovered completely in 2 days. German Shorthair Pointer will be spayed tomorrow 6/6/16 so am believing she’ll recover as quickly. In closing, if anyone’s dog gets diarrhea, give the dog 1 T Organic Canned Pumpkin or the supplement called Slippery Elm (1 cap for med size dog and 1/2 cap for smaller size [1 cap = 1/2 tsp….dump it out of capsule onto a largish piece of cheese and roll the whole thing up and feed that to the dog), Also might mention I fix all my own dog treats which is easy to do and they simply love them.