[losul]

Betsy, Thnx much, all the words and support definitely helped me get through my initial shock and panic stage. I made the mistake of watching that video the other day, Dr. Turner I think, where he surgically removed 86 1 foot long worms from that poor dogs heart, and all I could think was I wanted those friggin things out of Turbo NOW.

I should have been paying more attention to all the talk a few months ago about the HW preventatives. I think it was on the off topic thread and went on for a week or two. I’m going to have to look for that discussion and read it.

I was lame to think I would just casually keep doing what I had been doing and my dog wouldn’t ever get heartworms. As much as I hate it, once Turbo is cleared I will probably have to keep him on preventative year round, on the full dosage, and maybe even checked 2X year, I can’t ever risk this happening again. There are alot of mosquitos here, I’m considered within the Mississippi valley, and part of my property is within a flood plain, actually the majority is now included in the flood plain, since they remapped after the Great Flood. Probably the mosquitos aren’t near so bad in your area.

Shawna, I hope I can manage to make the right decisions going forward. Thnx

About the Dr Byron Blaghorn that my vet mentioned. I found that yes he has an impressive bio, but I wasn’t so impressed by the study he conducted. The study was limited in size, they tested 4 different HWP’s and found that Advantage multi was the only one that had 100% efficacy against 1 certain strain of HW larvae after a single dosage. Apparently that strain has never again been found in the wild, and apparently it was not even the supposed resistant strains found in the Mississippi river delta and valley. The study was paid for by Bayer Pharma and I understand that the Dr. also received a fee from Bayer. Bayer publicized this study ALL over the place, but they didn’t publicize the fact that all 4 HWP’s had 100% efficacy after 3 doses.

I’m not sold on advantage multi. And I don’t like the included flea insecticide. I get so much conflicting information, which do I believe?
I can’t find any info on multi and doxy alone being used in a slow kill method, and not sure on it’s effectiveness at weakening/killing adult worms or it’s actual reliability to clear microfilariae. So much conflicting info. Plus I’m not sold on it’s safety. Is it better to use a drug that accumulates and builds up in the body (moxidectin) or one that does it’s job quickly and leaves the body rather quickly (such as ivermectin)?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[losul]

Shawna, I assure you I am going to go over all the information you and all the others have graciously provided, and take everything into consideration. It’s been hectic and I’m an airhead, exhausted yet so wired with all the coffee and tea. So bear with me, if I can’t get back right away. I have some posts to get to on the off topic board also

I will say this much for now, I had another lengthy phone conversation with the vet and he has set my mind at ease on a number of points. Don’t worry about the rabies vaccine fore now, we have some weeks grace, if I’m still concerned he will help me in seeking an exemption.

He still will not advise the ivermectin as a slow kill at all, nada. He is however quite agreeable to trying an advantage multi/doxycycline slower kill without immiticide. The drug companies won’t and don’t exactly tell them this, nor are their actual studies showing this, (should I be repeating this?), but in his own experience and anecdotal evidence from others are that in general, the worms are cleared within 9 to 12 months in this way is what he told me. It takes longer than with the immiticide and is absolutely not without it’s own risks either though. He would not remain infective to others, nor would he be able to be re-infected. Because they have to give the advantage plus at least 2 months prior to immiticide treatment anyway, I would have that much time to decide whether to go through with the immiticide, except that they usually then give the doxy under a different schedule. They said the worst reaction they have personally expierenced to the immiticide is a welt. He told me they have on average about 2 or so HW cases/month. He is pressing for the the Advantage multi, but I don’t think it is just because his clinic sells it, I think he believes in it. He also said I could later change it to something else if need be. It’s not really priced horrible – 6 for $99.99 plus 3 “free.” I already have a “complimentary” tube.

He gave me the name of a supposedly renowned expert in field who is very much a proponent of advantage multi, and I think he said he wrote some papers on it for The American Heartworm Sociey. Dr Byron Blagburn. I haven’t had time to look for anything about this yet, just some general info;

http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/faculty/pathobiology-faculty/blagburn#.UxEimfldXeU

He also said I could wait until Monday to start the Advant if I was concerned about some possible kind of reaction while their clinic was closed. He said the only reaction they have persomnally seen is some itching after application at the site, that quickly subsides in about 10 or so minutes.

He was not opposed to taking X-rays, and thought if not neccesary it could still be a good ideal, it was just that most people don’t and want to keep expenses to a minimum. They have a professional radiologist look at them, he only comes in once a month, but they could be sent to him (extra charge of course) for faster results.

This vet is not the senior vets ( which are a married couple) at this office, he was a 2000 graduate. But the vet office and their vets came highly recommended to me by several people. He might not have extensive expierience, but so far, I do like him. Very easy to talk to and get along with, seems like a vet that continues to seek an share knowledge and wants to grow that knowledge. Yet I am still thconsidering about that 2nd opinion or at least another HW test elsewhere. I called some and couldn’t get an appointment before mid-week. I found out Vetco – those traveling clinics that usually appear once a week in Petco stores can do a HW test Sunday at Petco, but not exactly crazy about going that route. There wouldn’t be any second opinion there. Yet I might just do it to confirm and it would get done and with results Sunday.

The baffling trembling episodes are still very troubling to me, but no reoccurences.

Melissa, Thanks so much for the support, your input and your expieriences I have calmed some finally now and I am going to take a day to think things over. I’m going to try and shut my eyes soon 🙂

Patty, I think going by the records I showed him, he said the infection likely couldn’t bhave been more than a 1 1/2 years ago, but not sure on I recall correctly. Thank you Patty, I really appreciate the kind words.

[Shawna]

I just posted this to HDM on the regular site but thought you might not see it..

“The doxy makes the worms sterile so resistance shouldn’t be an issue with any worms picked up from the doxy treated dog. One of the benefits of giving doxy is that it makes the dog no longer infective to other dogs.

From heartwormsociety.org “Microfilariae from dogs treated with doxycycline that were ingested by mosquitoes developed into third-stage larvae that appeared to be normal in appearance and motility, but these larvae were not able to develop into adult worms, thus reducing the risk of selecting for resistant sub-populations.” http://www.heartwormsociety.or…

I see advantages to the fast kill as well as slow kill methods. I personally would use the slow kill with SP Canine Cardiac Support and herbs mentioned in Dr. Goldsteins book for heartworm treatment plus. But I understand Losul’s desire to get the worms out as soon as possible too… And Turbo seems to be a good candidate for the fast kill method when doxy and heatguard (or another form) are used first to lessen the risks of immiticide treatment.

I’d give raw eggs to keep glutathione levels up. Cardiac support by giving an organ supplement or giving organic heart. I like Standard Process because it has anti-inflammatory factors that work specific to the organ being used for as well as “food” for the specific organ. Anti-inflamatories like turmeric. I personally would give small amounts of garlic and use probiotics regularly. etc etc etc Chlorella is an excellent detoxer.

Edit — been a HORRIBLY busy at work last few days.. I’ve missed much of what has been discussed :(..”

Another thing to consider is that although nobody wants to get that diagnosis, it is really not as bad as some try to make it. You caught it early. Even before symptoms appeared. He has every chance of doing well no matter which way you go. After re-reading your post I do see where your vet is recommending doxy and heartworm before the immiticide. That makes me feel more comfortable with his recommendation!!! 🙂

Here’s a link that may not provide new info but hopefully will take a little of the scare out of the diagnosis.. This is naturopathic vet Dr. Jeannie Thomason’s site http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

PS — I found several folks that had dogs with a minor infection like Turbo’s. One said her dog was free of heartworm nine months after starting the slow kill method. Some of the results you are hearing from could be from immune compromised dogs as well. Turbo is way ahead of the pack in that regards. That is also why I would be less freaked about the fast kill method for him!!! You’re a good puppy parent and Turbo has every chance of having no complications because of it.

I’ve always read to use ivermectin when doing slow kill. I’d do more research before choosing slow kill and anything but ivermectin. A quick google search says this about moxidectin “Ivermectin is the medication most commonly used to kill the microfilaria (larval stage.) There are other medications that will kill them (such as milbemycin) but ivermectin kills more slowly. When too many microfilaria die at once, it can cause shock and collapse for the dog. Thus, ivermectin is preferred because of the slower kill rate. Other products like selamectin and moxidectin do not kill the microfilaria efficiently enough to clear them reliably. Fortunately, ivermectin is available in several monthly heartworm preventive medications. Examples are Heartgard ®, Tri-Heart® and others.” http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-HeartwormTreatments.htm

Of course, one comment on vetmedicine site is not enough to base something like this on but do research more before deciding. I’ll try to check it out too.

Did you ask him his reasoning for recommending the rabies vacc at this time? Is it that he is not aware of the problems, disagrees that problems could arise, thinks they are overstated or what? Does your state allow exemptions? Why not put it off?

Here’s data from several people that have actually USED the slow kill method and cleared heartworm. And likely these are dogs that are nowhere near as healthy as Turbo however I don’t know that. Just a guess. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365271-Slow-Kill-Heartworm-treatment

It’s also the method that most rescue use around here. And again I would try to get Dave’s Hounds input. BUT, when it really comes down to it you will do what you think is best for Turbo and EVERYONE here that is truly your friend will support your decision because we all know that you are the one that has to live with that decision not us… We all will support you no matter what your choice. And as stated before, I think Turbo is a good candidate for the immiticide option as he is young, healthy and has the right person in his corner!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.

[Shawna]

Hi Losul,

SOOOO sorry to hear about Turbo’s issues :(…

Here is what Dr. Becker says about heartworm treatment (and no, what your vet recommended is not the slow kill method).
“As it turns out, low-dose ivermectin therapy in dogs with no sensitivity to the drug, in combination with the antibiotic doxycycline, can be an extremely effective, inexpensive option for treating heartworm infection.

The cost was about 50-75 percent cheaper than Immiticide and all four cases of infection cleared beautifully.

The only time I’ll consider using Immiticide in the future (once it becomes available), is when I have an ivermectin-sensitive patient.” http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/11/22/cheaper-safer-therapy-for-heartworm.aspx

Dave’s Hounds has been using the slow kill treatment with his older, adopted Hound Dog and things, last reported, seem to be going well. Might be worth talking with him!!!!

Mary Straus at Dog Aware website has some fantastic information on heartworm and the slow kill method. Doxy basically makes the worms sterile which prevents the existing ones from reproducing. Since your vet says stage 1 there assumably aren’t an overload of them. Steralizing the ones that are there would be a good idea. Doxy also makes it so Turbo can’t infect any other dogs. Doxy also kills the bacteria that hitches a ride w/ the heartworm. It is thought that the bacteria, called wolbachia, die off is what causes a lot of the dangers with the fast kill method. As well as clogging due to mass die off of the worms. You can pulse the doxy and ivermectin for a few months and then do the immiticide or you can stay on the doxy/ivermectin long term from my understanding.

“These studies clearly indicate that treatment with a combination of weekly ivermectin and daily doxycycline given intermittently will sterilize the heartworms, prevent the dog from being infectious to other dogs, speed up the death of the worms prior to (or in place of) Immiticide treatment, limit inflammation and damage caused by the worms’ presence, and reduce the chance of serious adverse reaction from Immiticide treatment.” http://dogaware.com/articles/newsheartworm.html

And more on dogaware http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjheartwormtreatment.html

He’s young and strong enough that he could probably handle the immiticide but if the slow kill is just as effective without as many complications…….. At the very least, do a round of doxy and ivermectin BEFORE the immiticide.

I can not believe the vet would recommend a rabies shot knowing that Turbo has heartworm AND wanting to do the immiticide treatment??? That’s just asking for trouble in my opinion. Just my opinion though….

I did not know that heartguard should not be refrigerated? Thanks for mentioning that in your post!

I would also consider giving, or continuing, supportive care such as giving high quality probiotics, anti-inflammatories etc. I would also suggest looking into a product called Canine Cardiac Support by Standard Process. Here’s a brief primer on it but more can be found (or even call the company) http://www.animalrehabstlouis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/cardiac_support.pdf

I have no suggestions or ideas for the trembling… 🙁

I personally would get a second opinion before starting heartworm treatment be it slow or fast kill. I would simply need that piece of mind. I wouldn’t tell the new clinic that he had already been found positive either..

[aimee]

Hi losul,

First I’m so sorry for what you and your dog are going through. I myself have nightmares that I get that dreaded call in which I’m told my dog has heartworms. I know that giving less of the pill and less frequently than recommended is likely playing heavily on your mind. In actuality we don’t know what role that played as sometimes dogs on full prevention protocols come up positive too.

I’m sure this is scarey. I’ll try an answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Do you need a second opinion? If you want to look further, have a different type of test done vs a different vet who may be using the same brand test. There can be false positives on a heartworm test, but they are rare.

The fact that they saw microfilaria kinda clinches the diagnosis. There are other microfilaria that can be seen in blood, Dipetalonema comes to mind and a parasitologist can likely identify them for you. The sample may need to be sent to a university vet school. But really the chance you have both a false positive and a different type of microfilaria seems unlikely …I think you would be grasping at straws …

Should you consider slow kill? I’ll give you my opinion for what it is worth, I wouldn’t. I can’t put my hand on it at this moment. Will look for it if you want but as I remember in dogs treated with slow kill considerable ongoing lung damage occurred UNLESS the dogs were on complete exercise restriction for the entire duration. Your dog is young, I’m guessing active, and would be difficult to keep continually crated for nearly a year plus(?) of his life. There also is some speculation that slow kill may be contributing to resistance. Unless your dog is clear of microfilaria during a slow kill treatment ( meaning your dog has microfilaria because of your dosing and not strain) your dog will be infecting others with a resistant strain and spreading resistance.

Should you use moxidectin? So far as I know of only one study that compared efficacy head to head and moxidectin was more effective when given as a single dose. Time will tell if that holds: one study one strain. The moxidectin treated dogs didn’t develop heartworm with only one dose post exposure whereas dogs given 1 dose ivermectin or milbemycin did develop worms. Dogs given 3 monthly doses of milbemycin post exposure were also clear. As I recall this test was done with a strain thought to have resistance.

Moxidectin is also the drug in Pro Heart injections. Is a continuous yet decreasing amount of moxidectin as effective as monthly peak doses? I don’t have any answers for you, I think though it has failed whereas the monthly topical has not due to higher blood concentrations with monthly pulse doses.

I’ve noted on Trifexis (milbemycin) commercials it states to give for 3 months post exposure whereas Sentinal Spectum (milbemycin) has upped that to 6 monthly doses post exposure. For now my dogs get milbemycin, same day each month year round. If I lived in heartworm land… southern states where resistance is being seen I’d choose moxidectin. Likely if my vet was saying moxidectin topical I’d go with it trusting that he/she understands the local strains. I don’t mess around with heartworm prevention.

The preventatives I can think of are ivermectin ( heartgard and others), selamectin( Revolution) milbemycin( sentinal, trifexis,) moxidectin( advantage multi, proheart) diethylcarbamazine (daily still available???)

Should you vaccinate? This is beyond my ability to answer. I think your vet is the best person to answer this one.

Trembling/ fearful…. two things come to mind: pain and fear unrelated to pain. Fears can be to unusual scents, sounds (electrical equipment, ultrasonic, rodents etc ) Pain… any lip licking swallowing drooling that might help you pinpoint it?
.
Again I’m so sorry you are going through this…your vet is the best one to help you through this. The American Heartworm Society guidelines are written as they are for a reason…. If it was me I’d make use of them: 3 injections and doxy. Best of luck

[losul]

I just discovered Tuesday evening that our dog Turbo has heartworm infection. It came as a huge shock, as i thought I was being meticulous with his care and his diet. Almost as bad, I am probably to blame for it, and I am sickened and upset by this. I was using
Heartguard+ chewables. I was trying to minimize his toxin exposure, so I didn’t give year round, just for the approximately 7 months mosquito season, and every 35 days instead of 30. Also, because Turbo is 34 pounds and I had the box for 26-50lbs, I was only giving him 2/3 of the chew. Lastly I was keeping the HG in the refrigerator, and now I found out that HG isn’t supposed to be refrigerated and they can’t guarantee the efficacy when refrigerated. I just called them and reported the case to them, telling them all the truth about the situation.

I don’t want to write our life story, sorry about the lengthy post, I’m just trying to get all the info out, so I can hopefully get some good advice to help me make the best decisions. Turbo is approximately 32 months old, 34 pounds, a boston terrier mix, we think maybe mixed with staffordshire or pit, but almost certainly mixed with some kind of bully type. We adopted him from our County’s Animal control about 1.5 years ago. He spent somewhere around 1/2 of the first 14 months of his life in 2 different sessions at the County shelter, and evidently 1 session at a City shelter. It was the first dog we have had in about 7 years, after having had many previously, for most of my life. We were out of the loop on most things dog, so I got very studied up on it, wanting to do things as right as possible, before we even started looking for another dog. I knew the type ( boston terrier or mix) I wanted and knew that I would put him on a raw diet before we even got him, and so be it, within 3 or 4 weeks we had him on about a 60% raw, 40% commercial diet, with no problems ever, except some gas for awhile.

Turbo is very handsome, charming, and playful, but can be rude, stubborn, very assertive, sometimes defiant. We love him the way he is, he’s always been a joy, and no real problems at all, except some assertion/agression (not fearful aggression) towards certain dogs, usually only the largest dogs or bully types. He’s completely different (quirks) than any other dog we’ve ever had, but for us, he’s really a perfect fit, and is always well behaved in the house.

We’ve been in search of a great dog Vet since we got Turbo. Tuesday’s visit was the 4th different vet. I had set up an appointment ahead of time for his upcoming rabies shot, and to test the waters with a new (and hopefully permanent) vet. In the meantime Turbo had a really strange and scary issue that happened Saturday evening and lasting into Sunday. An hour or so after he had his Saturday evening meal, and totally not typical, he began “hiding” in a corner of the house, or he would go to either the basement door or the back door. We take him through the basement into the garage when we go in the car. He goes out the back door into our yard. He also started very visibly trembling, looking very sheepish, and scared. He would not take a treat at all, so totally untypical of him. Once outside, he did not want to come back in at all, wanting to lay on a chair on the deck instead, even though it was quite cold and he doesn’t like cold for long. We’d make him come back in only to do the same again. Sitting in the corner at the end of the hall or at the basement door or the back door. He acted like he just wanted to be out of the house and maybe even away from us, seemed afraid of me for no reason, and the trembling hard, very scary. So not typical, Turbo has NEVER been fearful of anything that I know of, but he just did NOT want to be in the house at all. I eventually took him for a short car ride, and he seemed to have perked up some. So we got back into the house just a little bit reluctantly. He then took a treat fairly eagerly, but after taking a second one, he suddenly just dropped it and ran away to the corner again. The trembling and strange behavior again too. We nearly took him to the emergency clinic. It later subsided though, and eventually he went to bed right beside me, where I watched him the rest of the night. He seemed to sleep well. Next day, just a little more of the same scary stuff, and then he ate his typical raw morning meal. Soon after eating he started acting better throughout the day (Sunday). He never vomited nor had diarrhea nor showed any obvious pain through the whole ordeal.

Baffled, I spent most of Sunday researching the trembling symptoms. Nothing seemed really to fit at all, but I was concerned about problems like kidney/liver. I contemplated all sorts of things such as Lyme or tickborne illness ( he had a tick on his ear that I didn’t catch right away, it was November and we had already had several hard freezes. The tick left a pea sized nodule that lasted about two months. Friday evening he chewed on a cow hoove awhile until I took it away from him, because he had broken off a rather large sharp shard. Saturday morning he had his typical raw meal, but his evening meal was not quite as typical. Usually he gets 2/3 cup kibble matched with 1/3 of a can food, or 3/4 cup kibble and an egg, or sardines. This time I gave him less than 1/2 cup kibble + about 4 ounces of canned salmon + 1 egg cooked in coco oil, and i added about 1/2 t of nutritional yeast. i think I’ve added a very small amount of yeast to his raw mix before, but not completely sure. So thoughts of a bad reaction to the yeast also came into play, along with thoughts of too much fat at once. Even the thought of a ghost in the house came up.

Monday morning I called the vets office an\d told them I thought we needed to put the rabies shot on hold, and instead get him checked and do some blood work to get to the bottom of this. Tues evening: I explained everything to the techs and the vet as best I could, even that I home prepped over 1/2 of his diet. He asked me what I was feeding him and I told him him briefly, just didn’t come out and say”raw”, but I think he knew it. He didn’t ask if raw and seemed satisfied with what I was feeding and supplementing. This
vet spent alot of time with us, well over an hour, didn’t admonish for anything, wasn’t arrogant in the least, didn’t “push” anything , and so far I think I like him O.K. He examined Turbo and was pleased with his apparent health. So he didn’t push any lab work at all. I still elected to go with an outside lab wellness blood work, along with an in house tick borne illness and heartworm check.

I was floored when they came back and said he was both pos on the antigen and microfiliae HW tests. He was negative on the tickborne. He explained the clinic’s HW protocol; 1) monthly HW preventative for 2 months prior to treatment, and continuing throughout treatment and beyond. 2)Doxycycline. for 2 weeks prior to treatment.3) first immiticide treatment (injection); dexamethasone injection, tramadol injection. Hospital overnight, strict confinement until returning for next treatment.4) doxycycline again for 2 weeks prior to immiticide treatment. 5) 2nd immiticide treatment. ( 2 injections 24 hours apart), dexamethasone and tramadol injections given daily with each treatment. Hospitalized for 3 days and 2 nights. strict confinement at home 30 days 6) Heartworm check 6 months afdter last immiticide injection to confirm elimination of heartworms.

He also explained the clinic’s preferred HW preventative – Advantage multi – a topical application, (imidacloprid for fleas which Turbo does not have + moxidectin, the HW preventative, which is supposedly absorbed through the skin). I didn’t even realize they had a topical for HW. I told him I would rather not use an insecticide for fleas that he didn’t need. He said alternatives (such as heartguard) could be used but may not be as effective, in his opinion. I then mentioned that I recalled hearing about a “slow kill” method. He seemed a little stunned, and said that that method was actually more dangerous, wasn’t as reliable and it could take much longer if it even worked. I again expressed my concern about all the toxins, especially the arsenic/immiticide.

He didn’t think the trembling episode was HW related at all, although he didn’t offer any real explanation for it. Also he thought it would be fine for him to go ahead and get the rabies vaccination, or I could wait for the outside lab’s bloodwork results in a day or 2. I told him we would definitely wait.
—–

Here’s where I need advice;

Do you think I should get another HW test from another vet along with a second opinion?

Should I consider a slow kill method vs the clinic’s protocol?

Should I use heartguard or another ivermection based HWP vs the advantage multi, moxidectin based? Is their any other moxidectin based without other insecticides included? Is there another one more effective than the others? Are there any other HWP’s using some different drug altogether?

Should I continue to put on hold the rabies vaccination? if I put off more than a few more days, then he will be past due again, will probably only be able to get the 1 yr vs the 3 yr, and would have to be re-vaccinated again in a year.

Does anyone have anyone input about what could cause the trembling episode?

Any other opinions/advice?

———–

Update: The vet called with the bloodwork results. Everything looked “perfectly normal” he especially stressed the liver and kidney values, the blood cell and platelet counts and values, thyroid, and some other things I don’t recall now, I don’t have a copy yet. What a big relief on that much. I had some more questions to ask, such as should he have X-rays, ultrasound, etc. He could, but didn’t think neccesary nor did he advise it. I asked about the microfilariae count, he said a fair amount? Somewhere I had read about the 3 classes of HW infections. I asked what “class” his condition would be, he replied definitely class 1, which I saw described somewhere (going by memory)as asymptomatic to mild, no radiologic signs, nor signs of anemia. He still encouraged going ahead with the rabies vacination, and strongly urged getting started on the advantage multi soon. But he seemed much more amenable now to a slow kill method, maybe along with doxycycline, before I even asked again, even seemed to kind of go along with it, though he still didn’t recomend it, he still recomended their protocol. He also expressed concern that these worms may be resistant to ivermectin, and it could take a very long time to kill them using it. So he again really encouraged using their Advantage multi. I guess this multi is a new thing.

——-

Any advice/opinions would be very much appreciated, as I’m feeling lost and very worried over this. I think my questions still remain the same after getting the blood work results.

[jakes mom]

Here’s my 2 cents on the vaccination issue. I’ve had a lot of cats, right now I’m down to just 5. Three 12 year old siblings, a 14 year old and my old guy is 18. When I get a new cat I get to the vet asap and the cat gets an exam and any worming, etc needed. He gets a series of core vaccines, then, since my guys are indoor only, get boosters every 3 years or so. Latest info I’ve read is that the protection seems to be lasting about 3 years. I don’t think it’s necessary to do it every year, plus the more vacc, the more chance of a vacc. related sarcoma.You can also get the cat’s blood tested to check the titer. If it’s still high no need for a booster. Good luck, hope you catch the little guy! He’d be lucky to have you!

[Dori]

My Maltese, Hannah, weights 8 lbs. She’s not the one with the allergies. My allergy dog is Katie, 7 lb. champagne color Maltipoo. Poor thing is or I should say was a real mess. More problems than any one dog should have. Have you looked on line to see what you can get? Also the Pet Supermarket probably has better stuff also. It’s time consuming because you’ll need to read the ingredients listed. Just try to find something that has the least amount of ingredients in it and that you can actually recognize what they are. Also try to find one that says it’s soap less. Not sure why Bentley would have the oily problem after shampooing and not the others. But maybe you can get a shampoo that works for Bentley and not use it on the other two that don’t have the skin issues. Does he have food issues? If so, what is he allergic or intolerant to? It’s exhausting and time consuming trying to find things that dogs with intolerances to food and environment can deal with. Took me 4 years to get Katie to a level where she’s happy, healthy. No more scratching, sores, bad breath, bad gas. There were times I thought it would never happen but I just kept lists of everything I fed her so that every time I had a problem with something I would try to figure out the offending ingredients whether it was food or shampoo. The shampoo issue was the last thing that I finally figured out. I was even trying prescription shampoos which were ridiculously expensive and did not help at all. I also found that she was having issues with the laundry detergents so I switched everything to dye free fragrance free. I no longer burn candles in the house. Nothing that can possibly bother her. Like I said. It’s been like a full time job and exhausting. But when I see her now I know it was worth all the work.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Akari-
Did you get the cat yet. Was your friend able to catch him? Honestly, I’ve never been very diligent about getting my cats vaccinated. After hanging out on this site for a while now, I think I’m glad. Mine are strictly indoor now. But, in the past I had indoor/outdoor cats and didn’t always keep up on shots after their initial ones and never had any problem. But, I certainly don’t want to make any recommendations to you as I don’t know enough about it, other than my experience. Also wanted to remind you to try and stay away from fish based kibble and fish based canned food as much as possible. My senior cat was recently diagnosed with hyperthyroidism and feeding too much iodine from mostly fish seems to be a common cause for it. There was actually some talk about it today on the off-topic thread on the review side of this site. Have fun!

[USA]

I started a topic in the off topic forum about microchipping. It never showed up in the column on the left so I will post it here.

Microchipping was something I used to think all dogs should have done. This was a long time ago when AVID was the only one making chips for dogs. The chips were all on the 125 kHz frequency and there was only one scanner to read them.

Then Home Again started making microchips for dogs that were also on the 125 kHz frequency but then they made a 125 kHz microchip that was encrypted so the AVID scanner would not read a microchip if it was an encrypted chip from Home Again!

Then an ISO (International Standards Organization) microchip was introduced in Europe that was on the 134.2 kHz frequency and this was going to be the international standard for microchips in pets. Too bad the USA never made it our standard also.

The original scanners that AVID made and gave away to thousands of shelters and rescue groups in the USA could only read AVID’s original chip. It couldn’t read the Home Again encrypted 125 kHz chip or the new 134.2 kHz European chip.

Now people were getting their dogs microchipped and shelters and local animal controls with older scanners were NOT ABLE TO DETECT that the dog had a microchip!!!

Then Banfield the PetSmart Vet came out with the ISO 134.2 kHz microchip in the USA.

Dogs were being euthanized who HAD microchips but whatever scanner the shelter had was unable to read whatever chip the dog had. Yes, there are universal scanners that are able to detect but not read ALL microchips. But who knows what scanner YOUR local shelter and animal control have?

If the frequency mess was not enough a link has now been established between implanted microchips and a certain type of cancer called a Sarcoma.

Yes there’s more, the needle used to implant a microchip is NOT a tiny needle. The non-profit I work with used to microchip dogs for free. Toy breeds were the dogs who did the worst being chipped. About half of the small dogs would SCREAM when being chipped and the Bichon and Maltese types with the tender skin would have visible holes in their skin and be very tender at the injection site, sometimes for days.

We have seen dogs with 2 chips who were microchipped without the Vet or Vet tech finding the original chip, we have seen many chipped dogs who after being adopted the new family never registered the microchip so even though the dogs had a chip we were unable to locate their current home.

Conclusion: I no longer recommend people get their pets microchipped. It could lead you into a false sense of security where you think your dog will be returned home in an emergency but it will not. And the sarcoma link just puts the risks too high for the meager benefits IN MY OPINION.

Secure your yard gates with locks, put signs up on the gates letting people know you have dogs inside, put an ID on a breakaway collar (yes they make them for dogs). Find ways of making sure your loved ones are not lost in the first place and make sure they are have some kind of ID that can be physically read in an emergency.

Sorry for the bad news!!!

[Fatcakes]

This is great, thank you all so much. My house smells like an aquarium now but totally worth it. We have gotten rid of all treats, etc that have chicken, and also are switching the cats to Orijin. Origin and THK treats, with some egg, pumpkin, sardines, and coconut oil rotated in here and there as well (not all of this has been implemented yet for the sake of his digestive tract and my carpet). I don’t think he has a fish allergy as the only improvement I saw was after starting the fish oil supplement. Love the spreadsheet idea, too! He loves his Beam treats and new food. I can’t wait to see if this fixes the dandruff. I swear his fur is already getting softer…

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
Yes, pure balance is made by Ol’ Roy. But I think it is much better quality. I use the canned food regularly. It’s a great value. There is an active thread on this food on the review side of this site. You may find it helpful.

[USA]

Microchipping was just mentioned in the Harness or Collar thread and I thought it deserved its own topic.

Microchipping was something I used to think all dogs should have done. This was a long time ago when AVID was the only one making chips for dogs. The chips were all on the 125 kHz frequency and there was only one scanner to read them.

Then Home Again started making microchips for dogs that were also on the 125 kHz frequency but then they made a 125 kHz microchip that was encrypted so the AVID scanner would not read a microchip if it was an encrypted chip from Home Again!

Then an ISO (International Standards Organization) microchip was introduced in Europe that was on the 134.2 kHz frequency and this was going to be the international standard for microchips in pets. Too bad the USA never made it our standard also.

The original scanners that AVID made and gave away to thousands of shelters and rescue groups in the USA could only read AVID’s original chip. It couldn’t read the Home Again encrypted 125 kHz chip or the new 134.2 kHz European chip.

Now people were getting their dogs microchipped and shelters and local animal controls with older scanners were NOT ABLE TO DETECT that the dog had a microchip!!!

Then Banfield the PetSmart Vet came out with the ISO 134.2 kHz microchip in the USA.

Dogs were being euthanized who HAD microchips but whatever scanner the shelter had was unable to read whatever ship the dog had. Yes, there are universal scanners that are able to detect but not read ALL microchips. But who knows what scanner YOUR local shelter and animal control have?

If the frequency mess was not enough a link has now been established between implanted microchips and a certain type of cancer called a Sarcoma

Yes there’s more, the needle used to implant a microchip is NOT a tiny needle. The non-profit I work with used to microchip dogs for free. Toy breeds were the dogs who did the worst being chipped. About half of the small dogs would SCREAM when being chipped and the Bichon and Maltese types with the tender skin would have visible holes in their skin and be very tender at the injection site, sometimes for days.

We have seen dogs with 2 chips who were microchipped without the Vet or Vet tech finding the original chip, we have seen many chipped dogs who after being adopted the new family never registered the microchip so even though the dogs had a chip we were unable to locate their current home.

Conclusion: I no longer recommend people get their pets microchipped. It could lead you into a false sense of security where you think your dog will be returned home in an emergency but it will not. And the sarcoma link just puts the risks too high for the meager benefits IN MY OPINION.

Secure your yard gates with locks, put signs up on the gates letting people know you have dogs inside, put an ID on a breakaway collar (yes they make them for dogs). Find ways of making sure your loved ones are not lost in the first place and make sure they are have some kind of ID that can be physically read in an emergency.

Sorry for the bad news!!!

[Naturella]

Fatcakes,

Hope we helped! I second everything Shasta said, from the pumpkin addition, to testing for food allergies, to the raw egg – Bruno will be getting one/week starting next Thursday! Also, I swear by coconut oil (make sure it is UNREFINED too though – extra virgin, cold-pressed, UNREFINED – it is the REAL deal) – miracle worker. 🙂 But the food you got sounds great, hope your boy likes it! And yay for fish, just hope he’s not allergic to it or something. Orijen is a great brand from what I read though! 🙂

I rotate Bruno’s food once his mix ends, which is about every 4 months or so. And I go through a few flavors/proteins of the same brand before I switch brands. Now he has enough food to last throughout March for sure, maybe even April. Next batch is Earthborn Holistic GF Coastal Catch (fish) mixed with Vets Choice HHE Original (chicken mostly, but other meals in there. Some grains too. Meh, I got it for free and it is 4-stars, so I’m good with it.), then Earthborn Holistic GF Great Plains Feast (bison and some lamb) mixed with Vets Choice HHE Lamb and Rice (I know. Rice. Not grain free. Oh well. There’s lamb in it too.), and then Earthborn Holistic GF Primitive Natural (chicken) mixed with Vets Choice HHE GF (chicken). THEN I have Victor Ultra Professional GF mixed with Back to Basics lined up, and then the Victor Yukon Salmon GF mixed with probably Back to Basics again. THEN I want to try Wellness Core. I think I have Bruno’s meal plan set for like 2 years to come, lol.

As for THK Beams – if you have any local boutiques that sell all-natural dehydrated chews (which is what the fish skins are), see if they have them in bulk – my closest pet boutique store sells them in a jar by the skin, and the big ones are just $1, and I can cut them in like 8 Bruno-sized skins! Bruno is a Jack Russel – (miniature?) Rat Terrier mix, @ around 1 year. I will claim April 1st as his Birthday. We are not 100% sure, he was found in some bushes… But was changing puppy teeth throughout August-September of last year… Any guesses on approximate Birthday? Anyone?

[Shasta220]

Sounds like you’ve already got some ideas for foods to try – I don’t know that many brands personally, so I usually say it’s safe to go with 4-5 star brands.

As for the skin. I wouldn’t expect a bath to help much, as soaps tend to strip the coat even more, unless they’re medicated and designed for dry skin (when my dog is super dry, I use an oil-based organic shampoo. Sometimes it’s almost too much though, and my dog doesn’t feel clean at all).

Some things to look into: possibly tests for food allergies? As almost all skin problems have something to do with food, sadly. It could be chicken, grains, tomatoes, fish, the list goes on. I’d try getting him on coconut oil – organic extra virgin cold pressed, about 1tbsp per 30lbs. That stuff has been known as a miracle worker around these parts! Salmon oil is very good, too. Keep that up, 🙂

Fiber additions – most people add a big spoonful of pumpkin (canned is fine) to their dogs food. If there’s no improvement in his morning routine, then possibly try some probiotic supplements as well.

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[Susan]

My boy has I.B.D & Colitis, His vet has told me over & over, keep Patch on the same food do not change it, at first I thought WHAT & i’d give Patch something different & it wouldnt happen straight away maybe 1 week later, the vet explained if their bowel is sensitive, foods will irritate the bowel linning causeing the diarrhea, I noticed my boy cant have cooked rice but if its grounded in a kibble he can eat that kibble, I have to keep the fiber down & I noticed he cant have high protein kibbles, Just start reading which kibble seems to be good & doesnt upset their tummys, see what the protein fat & fiber % was & stick with around that % & just stick with the same flavour & brand for 3-4 months then maybe try a different flavour in the same brand that there doing well on..my vet told me 1 yr I have to keep my boy on the Eukanuba Intestinal then I can very slowly try adding a new food, some dogs just dont do well when their feed gets changed..also put them on a Probiotic this has really helped my boy but make sure u get a good one as there’s a few dodgy ones getting around that do nothing. I use Protexin & it must be kept in the fridge..

[InkedMarie]

Go to, I think, the diet and health forum here and read the stickie on feeding large breed puppies. I think the list of appropriate foods is on page 15 but maybe someone will post the link for you (I’m on my iPad & can’t)

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sue’s Zoo]

Hi Sharon,
My understanding is that in attempting to replicate the diet a dog would consume in the wild there are pieces that we just can’t/don’t do (i.e. fur, feathers, intestinal contents-not necessarily stomach as some things I read indicate they don’t eat the stomach-, etc) so some fruits/veggies/minerals help make up the difference. Steve Brown’s book provides tables showing all the essential nutrients and recipes that come close to providing the same–shows comparisons between NRC (National Research Council), Ancestral and their recipes. I’m currently running some calculations using an online database to help me check some of these things myself. It’s time consuming but it just feels like the right thing for me.

The more I read, the more I know…and the more complicated it becomes. Still waiting for that moment when it all seems to click and becomes easier…

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[checker]

With kidney issues,the food should be special. I am new to using Hill’s k/d renal.It is specially formulated for renal,kidneys.The food should contain low phosphorus,low sodium and low protein. I haven’t found a compatible good brand in my area,so I stick with the Hill’s for now. You may read borrow stories on the Hill’s and good reviews.Just keep in mind there are people out there writing bad reviews on behalf of other food companies or the companies themselves. I also gave my dog treats,and now I am using pieces of sweet potato as a little treat. I hope this helps. My 12 year old female Pomeranian had 2 kidney stones in which I need to maintain not get more or bladder infections. She also had a liver test was a little off,but still ok. I live in Windsor,Ont.Canada and so far found a reasonable price at pet value.I have to feed wet canned food due to her only having 2 teeth left. The Vet.cans were more expensive at $3.23/ can and pet value was $2.59/can and if buy a case of 12,you basically get a free can for the 10% off. I am not sure about online yet,I am still searching for reasonable prices myself. The dry dog food will probably last longer and be cheaper. I hope this helps and if anyone know where a cheaper price can be found or a different food besides making my own can be found. I would be grateful!!
Sincerely,Kim

[caseynotis]

Hi everyone!
I’m new and first would like to say Thank You, for all this wonderful information about dog foods & treats & everything! We just adopted a rescue puppy and I want to make sure we are feeding him the best we can (within the wallet’s ability 🙂 ) . Sarge is a 7 wk old Akita/Rotti/Lab mix, started on Innova Puppy Food at 5 wks (not sure what happened to the mom), so for now we are continuing with the Innova until I do some more research to see what else is out there.

So my question – I’m looking for a treat to use for training purposes…’sit’, ‘come’, etc..so not chew toys/bones, but something small to reward him with. He could care less about his food used as the treat, so someone had given us a box of Puppy MilkBones we started with today. Holy Gas Batman!! Obviously not a good choice, so I’d like to figure this out very quickly & get something else on hand. I read about using cut up vegetables or hard boiled eggs? Is that correct?

Thanks for any help or suggestions!

Jennifer

[Shasta220]

Honestly, I would try to feed his daily food as rewards instead. Spread it out to a couple times a day, working 5-10min on tricks and stuff. Give him a few Kibbles instead of treat when he does something right. There are some great suggestions above too, and you could definitely look into a puzzle feeder if you like to order online. You can also look up “DIY dog brain teasers” for some clever ideas that will give him only a few kernels at a time.

Eating from a bowl is, for many trainers, a big no-no. Dogs need lots of mental stimulation to keep them calm, and food-motivated puzzles are one of the best and easiest mental games for your pooch. 🙂

[InkedMarie]

This was posted this morning on a FB group I am on:

Anybody find out anymore info on Blue ridge beef products? The new (and only) coop that started delivering to my area sells their products, along with other non commercial raw products. I don’t feed much ground, but they have quail (at an oddly low price), and that would be another protein source I can add to my dogs current variety. Both of whom loved the quail I gave them last night.

I’ve read the info out there on the web (good and bad) and then emailed the owner Steve with my questions.

My email. . .

“Hi Steve, I’m sure you get this a lot but I would really appreciate if you could answer a few questions I had, and clear up some confusion.

I know that you own BRB as well as Lea way Inc./Lea way Farms, I’ve read from the Iredell county commissioner minutes on the Iredell county government website archives that Lea Way Inc., is in the business of animal removal from local area farms and recycles it for pet food for Grey hound racing tracks in FL. At least you were as of May 2006.
http://www.co.iredell.nc.us/Departments/Planning/minutes/April2006pbminutes.pdf
Page 6
”Lea-Way Company picks up deceased cattle from area farms and provides a means for sanitary disposal; the existing plant processes useable materials into pet food products”

http://www.co.iredell.nc.us/Commissioners/minutes/Regular/May_9_2006_regular_minutes.pdf
Page 4 notes from that meeting stated. . .
”Lea said since 1979, his company had helped to recycle dead animals, at no cost to the county or state.”

“Commissioner Robertson asked about the process — muscle tissue removed from
the carcass. Lea said this was correct, and the tissue was boxed, frozen, labeled, and shipped to the Greyhound Tracks in Florida as pet food.”

Are the Iredell county documents correct in their information or were they at the time they were written correct? Are BRB and Lea Way Inc. connected in any other way besides sharing a mailing address? Is Lea way Inc. still in the practice of collecting downed animals and recycling them for petfood products for greyhound racing? If not, what happens to all the muscle meat you process from the downed animals you pick up, if it’s not going into pet food products? Are you still greyhound breeding for racing?

If the information is correct, I’m curious why one company produces pet products/food from picked up dead animals, and why your other company BRB would have a different meat quality standard?

I would really appreciate some information, and I’m hoping you reply back and answer my questions directly and honestly.

Thanks for your time and possible rely”

His response:

“Steve Lea’s reply. . .

Hello Lola
I will try to give you a short direct answer?
This was an attempt by me 8 years ago to take material that is unusable for ANYTHING, and turn them into renewable fuels.
I see that now you have dug up the commissioners Minutes as well.
If you read them you will see it was tabled and then withdrawn,
None of this happened then and is not happening now, and has NOTHING to do with BRB, or the products in BRB…
There is no 3-4D in Any of our products..
The internet is full of old outdated information that is no longer the case.
Some people have spent allot of time digging up this old outdated information and attempting to link it to BRB
to attempt to destroy it
WHY????????
I have answered these questions hundred’s of times only to find my words turned around and misrepresented on chat sites
I WILL NO LONGER ADDRESS THIS ISSUE!!!!
If you choose to believe these internet bullies and not feed BRB we wish you and your pets the best.
If you choose to believe your own eyes and your pets health and feed BRB we thank you for your business and support
Steve.”

A response like that would cause me to cross them off my possible dog food list.

[Jeff33]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciated all the valuable information that everyone has posted on this site. I am a new dog owner..my baby Tioga (English springer spaniel) turns one in a week. I found this site by researching the best type of dog foods available for him. I recently purchased some Orijen red because I thought that was the best food. I’ve since realized that I was wrong and I would like to feed him a raw diet because it’s the healthiest option. I don’t want to make my own raw meals. I’m going with Darwin’s. Here are my questions:

1. Can I feed him Darwin’s (chicken) everyday, without rotating? I thought rotating was only for canned and kibble due to the toxins.

2. Do I need to add anything else to his diet? I know I need to add some bones for his teeth and there are already enzymes in the meat so I don’t need to add that. What about probiotics?

I guess what I’m asking is what is the most basic diet, I was worried that just feeding him Darwin’s isn’t enough, I don’t want him to miss out on any necessary vitamins, minerals etc. due to my lack of knowledge.

Thanks for your help,
Jeff

[Lablubber]

Thank you guys for all of your quick responses and I sure hope I don’t get associated with being lazy but you know what? I go to a doctor who is very much into natural cures and holistic medicine as was my mother. And so I take a complete array of herbal medicine and my health, blood work and every part of my being has improved greatly so I continue in this approach.

But when I came here, my dog was on puppy chow from the breeder who raved about it as well as my own vet. recommended it as well unless I wanted to switch to Royal Canin. Upon coming here in just a short time, I started transitioning to what I thought was a great food from all I had read on my own, which was a bad choice so I referred to what you guys suggested and quickly learned my wisdom was severely lacking and I needed to make another change…..

So that is why I am now asking to not make another mistake. I am taking newsletters from Raw folks, holistic vets, folks in the know such as you but trying to disseminate it all has really become quite confusing….One says, it causes yellow stools and the next says it contains one bad ingredient…Garlic, rosemary extract, some chemical that is bad and so then when I am just about decided on what I want to switch to next before the raw… Boom then here comes another post from someone I respect as very knowledgeable in this field and there I am back to square one again…

and so really I just want to cut to the chase because I am at the point food wise that in order to transition to another brand or type…. I have to move quickly or otherwise I will have to go buy more Blue to accomplish that and I don’t want to do that.

So I just looked at Chewy.com and wished I would have gone there long ago and I will order several different bags just to try and see how he does on them and if one seems to agree with him better than the other, that you guys recommended than I will stick with that or use both and switch them in and out as I converge over to raw.

Thank you all so very much for your help…

The Lablubber

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels~
Sorry for what seems like conflicting/confusing information – it shouldn’t be as I was addressing the percentage of calcium in the Wellness formulas, Duke is addressing the grams of calcium that percentage represents in the food.

If you haven’t opened the bag, PetCo will take it back – actually, they’ll take it back even if you have opened it. If you have a couple days worth of NV left, I can agree with Imnordrum regarding ordering from Chewy. They have excellent customer service and I’ve always received everything within two days as well.

PetCo should carry Innova LBP if you’re considering that, which has one of the lowest calcium/phosphorus ratios – closest to what Dr. Henry Baker recommends (see article #3 on HDM’s list on the first page). Their food is not the best, but certainly better than Purina or Iams, Science Diet…

My primary concern when I first brought Mystery home was calcium, since we already had a Golden that required double-hip surgery, so I put him on the Innova LBP. When he was about seven months old, I switched him to Orijen LBP which has a higher calcium, but only as an interim food while I researched raw, which he is now on. If I had not gone raw, he’d still be on Orijen LBP formula until he was two and then over to Orijen’s adult formulas. Orijen is grain-free, preservative-free and synthetic-free. You won’t find Orijen at PetCo. Only one of my five cats likes raw so they’re all on Orijen Cat and Kitten. (No, I don’t work for Orijen – it’s just the best I can find at a price I can afford.) I’ve had no dietary issues with either the cats or Mystery from any of the foods I’ve fed.

As for the pumpkin, if there are no medical reasons for your pup to have loose stools (I don’t know what they would be except for my experience with Sunset having eaten rabbit poop), a tablespoon of plain pumpkin will help. I never had to give more than two tablespoons, even when Sunset did clean up after the rabbits.

[Lablubber]

Rick Rankin

So can somebody make it simple for me and please tell me on the kibble end of it. If you were just starting out with a lab puppy and wanted to feed him the best kibble… What is the best overall choice. Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness or Dr Something or whatever for a 13 week old Lab puppy. I have read to oblivion on what is best. I have read every persons articles about what is recommended and I am even more confused now and becoming quite desperate watching my grow and hopefully do well.

As I said I tried to switch over to a good food and switched to Blue Lg. Breed Puppy and then only to find out that it too was too high in calcium after all the 20 days of transitioning to another food.

I do plan to slowly work over to some raw diet when I feel knowledgeable enough to do so…Mainly on his evening meals and I have tried some of the stuff PattyVaughn recommend for him as well as adding it to his kibble as toppers to his food to see how he reacted to it and so far so good. But for me and my lack of knowledge, I am just afraid that to jump off completely in the Raw scene because you also need to know that I take this dog with me 24/7. He goes everywhere I go and I also take him to work with me as well. Plus he is already training hard every day with all of his retriever work and obedience training. So then with the very limited knowledge that I have on this subject and the conditions that I am involved in, a totally raw diet would almost be impossible for me to do right now….Plus I am afraid I would not have enough knowledge to give him and provided everything that he needs as far as supplementations that go along with it for a lg. breed growing puppy. Especially when I want to be extra careful on the calcium end of it and then again saying that… I also don’t want to under nourish him in anyway whatsoever either.

So could I just plead for someone’s mercy and wisdom in this situation and please recommend the best kibble for a 13 week old lab puppy and then if you don’t mind, share with me where the best place is to order it…. Because as most all of you warned me….My local pet stores carry very little healthy lg. breed puppy food and all the local vets carry is Science Diet and Royal Canin or something like that and when you read their ingredients, none of them meet the requirements…

So then…Could someone please come to my rescue and help someone in a pinch here, because I am down to about the last 8 # of the food that I have and so now would be the time to transition to another one. I have learned tons from all of you guys but for me time is of the essence because I want this pup to have the best I can get for him with the limited amount of knowledge that I do have on board.

Thanks Lablubber

[Sue’s Zoo]

Duke the Boxer posted this in the LBP topic:
‘The way HDM calculated the percentages of the calcium is from usuing this formula
1)Multiply calcium% by 1000g. That gives you the grams of calcium/kg
2)Divide the grams of calcium/kg by the kcal/kg for the food. That gives you the grams of calcium/kcal.
3)Multiply the grams of calcium/kcal by 1000/1000. That gives you grams of calcium/1000kcal.

Ive calculated food that say the max calcium is 1.5% but after the calculations the food was over the 3.5g of calcium per 1000kcal’

This is exactly why I’m still so uncomfortable feeding raw to my large breed pups! The whole point it doing it is to give them the best nutrition but if I screw up the calcium/phosphorus ratio etc I’ve just caused a problem that could be serious. And it seems fairly complicated to get it right. I’ve used a couple of books that are helpful but I can’t ask specific questions. This forum has helped tremendously but I’m still so insecure about it. Looking forward to the Raw Feeding Web Conference next weekend.

In the meantime does anyone know a good place to get nutritional values for various meats that include the bone, as well as green tripe etc? I found a website that I can use to add ingredients and get total values but, of course, the only items already in the database do not contain bone, etc. There’s a small fee if you want to do more than 3 recipes but if it help me get this right, it’s worth it :).

[Leah12345]

Good! I feel like I have some direction.

Pattyvaughn (who I refer to as my Jedi master) I think you are on to something. She looks like a Lhasa mix (wish I could post a picture), but a lot of people say she looks like a small Shaggy D.A. (bearded collie), which could be the herding. We just talked about maybe she was herding and my youngest son suggested getting a flock of sheep (haha). I have been training her, but we have a way to go before I can put her through her paces when people are around. I am hopeful!

Shasta220 you are awesome. I like your term “fear-anxiety” driven aggression, which is much more descriptive. I already have her “heeling” and walks are a joy. Most of the time she is so focused on “getting there” (not sure where she thinks she is going) that she doesn’t even notice background people/dogs unless a jogger or biker goes by…and then watch out. I will definitely start doing more mental exercises, agility, and trick-training sessions.

Thank you so much Aquariangt! I am going to look for classes that might be a better fit for her than the generic classes that wont take her bc she barks and lunges at others. Is a slow feeder like a Kong with big treats that she has to maneuver to get out? She would love that and I just learned about treats on this site that won’t aggravate her allergies. I think she needs more of the things you describe and I am getting to work today.

I’m getting to work!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Saw the coconut oil issue and came to see what others were saying. Discovered a few great suggestions in the process!

Patty~
As always, I learn something new every time I read one of your posts. I’ve been damp dusting with water (I don’t care for oily sprays that seem to attract fur, not repel it), for years but never thought to add anything to my wet cloth. Do you think just adding a touch of lemon juice to the cloth would work as well as lemon oil?

Typhoon ~
Just to confirm what Sully’sMom said, Dogs Naturally Magazine also recommends starting with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 lbs to begin with.

My Mystery had a severe skin flaking problem when I first brought him home. Literally, a dense layer of skin in and outside his crate every morning. We tried omegas for a month with no difference noted, then it was a special shampoo (that turned out to have a carcinogenic ingredient in it), and the breeder suggested canola oil (more cancer, no thanks).

I came across this article: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/. I started giving Mystery about a teaspoon in the mornings only to be sure he didn’t have loose stool problems in the night. Within a few weeks his skin flaking had completely stopped. He’s about 60 lbs now and I’m giving him about a tablespoon (I eyeball the measurement), and because it seems to be enough, I still only give it in the mornings – he never did have any stool issues, thank goodness.

Coconut oil seems to have a variety of benefits and while I’m taking supplements (I can’t stand the texture of solid coconut oil), in the hopes it will help with my eczema, I wouldn’t give a supplement to Mystery. Shasta220’s recommendation to just get a jar of it is best, organic, extra virgin, cold pressed, and I would add non-GMO. You can see my review of the brand I use here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2U61OLT76XK5I/ref=pdp_new_read_full_review_link?ie=UTF8&page=1&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R1YWGCBPDX00JI

I’d like to emphasize Shasta220’s suggestion about giving LOCAL honey to help with allergies. We live in an area called Apple Valley, for obvious reasons – lots of apple farms, local apple festival every year…, so there are fruit stands everywhere. These are the best places to find local honey.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Dori]

I too am sorry for your losses. It’s always a difficult thing to go through. I feed my three dogs grain, white potato, white rice free foods.
As someone else mentioned, if you check out the 4 and 5 star foods and read their ingredient lists you can go from there. Many of us on this site find a food that our dogs do well on and then continue the search so that we can have a few different brands and proteins to rotate through. Some rotate from bag to bag others rotate more often. I don’t really feed kibble any more (I feed commercial raw, also The Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated food that you just add water to) and am just starting to delve into doing homemade raw meals. When I did feed kibble, some of the brands I really liked were Brothers Complete (you can only buy it on their website but they have very very quick delivery and great customer service, it’s a family run business), Zignature, Victors (you can also order Victors on Amazon, Natures Logic, Acana just to name a few.

Keep in mind that, and it’s only my way, when I first bring a puppy home (or any dog for that matter) I usually keep them on the same food they were eating for the first two weeks. My feeling is that they are going through enough stress with moving to a new home, new people, etc. that I think it’s just a little easier on them that at least something in their lives is familiar to them. Then I start the slow transition to a food I’m comfortable feeding and also comfortable with the companies website and where they source their ingredients and what plants are used to produce their food. I try to make sure I then research what other dog foods that plant may be producing and, of course, have there being any recalls on any of them.

On the top left hand section of this page is a wonder list of Dog Food Recalls and you can also sign up to be put on their email list for dog food recalls as they happen.

Hope any of this has helped. Good luck with the new puppy. Let us know how you make out. Oh, and ask all the questions you want.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thank RDM and Patty.

I guess I should didn’t explain well enough. I used the veggies as an example. Since that proportion was off from what I had read elsewhere I wondered if it meant I was mis-reading the recipe and should’ve been dividing the meat by three but using other veggies/supplements in the AM meal ‘per dog’ which would then affect the calcium etc. But it sounds like I’ve been following them correctly so I feel better on that score. The Becker diets do seem heavy on the veggies but until I really feel better about my own calculations, I feel I need to follow some recipes. And trying to figure out amounts is still a struggle. But thanks to this forum I can at least ask questions and feel confident in the answers!

[Akari_32]

All the dogs in my family and immediate friends families I’ve trained or helped train, so I’ve been around the block a few times in that department. My biggest challenge was a friend terrier/shepherd mix, but not because she was stubborn (she wanted everybody’s love, and did whatever she had to to get it, which made her really easy to train), but her owner didn’t keep up with it as much as he needed to. She was so active that she had to be worn down some to get her into a good energy for training, and he always tried to go right into training with her, so it took a while for commands to stick. I’m certain I can handle the energy and stubbornness, fingers crossed.

I do also know times change, and if I’m too busy for this breed when the time comes I’m ready for another dog, I will look elsewhere for an easier breed.

I’ll be looking more into breeders and rescues tonight, and report back with what I’ve found. Still waiting on anyone that knows of or has dealt with breeder posted in my first comment above, well. 🙂

[Dori]

Hi Leah. Lurking on this site is a very good thing. You learn so much. Even checking out and reading the posts on foods that aren’t for your own dog for whatever reason you still learn so much about nutrition. I think I probably lurked and learned on this site for a couple of years before I ever posted. Once you’ve gone though different experiences with your dogs and start to learn not only what works and what doesn’t but why, you’ll want to pass on your experiences and your opinions. The most important thing I’ve learned on this site is that we’re all trying to help each other out so that we can do the best for our animals. After a while it starts to feel like an extension of family and friends. Glad your here.

[USA]

Hi Jason

I’m happy to see that you are looking for safer alternatives for flea, tick and mosquito control!

Products like Frontline, Advantix, etc can buildup in the organs of dogs over time so even though you don’t see immediate side effects they are still dangerous. They are also neurotoxins and I am just glad you looking for alternatives!

Indoors
Wash their bedding at least once a week and add Borax (boric acid) to the wash.

Boric acid can also be rubbed into any fabric couches or chairs. Vacuum the cushions and rub the Boric acid into the fabric beneath the cushions.

Outdoors
Beneficial nematodes are effective for flea control. If your dog roams the whole nine acres that is a lot of nematodes you will need (like a billion!). I would do the area around your house no matter what. I prefer to use nematodes in vermiculite (scanmask) rather than nematodes on a sponge. The ones in vermiculite have a shelf life of 2 years, the ones on a sponge are probably dead or dying by the time they are purchased (shelf life of about 4 to 8 weeks).

Keep any vegetation as short as possible if you can. Ticks are usually in vegetation above 2 inches or so.

I don’t know how big your creek is or if there are fish in it but that would be the only place I might look into commercial mosquito control. The chemicals would not be on your dog as long as he doesn’t swim in it.

On your dog.
Bathe at least once a week for flea control. Use a flea shampoo that has essential oils in it. Natural doesn’t mean safe so try a small amount first and see how your pooch does. Just bathing with any shampoo will kill fleas as they will drown.

Essential oils
There are many that will kill and repel fleas, ticks and mosquitoes. I would say that they do not work as well as poisons such as frontline but they will not kill your dog along with the fleas!

Repel Mosquitoes and they smell lemony or floral,
Citronella
Citral
Lemongrass
Geranium oil or Geraniol

Kill fleas and the have a very strong smell. The ones that have a P contain Phenols which are very powerful and carry risks of their own
Clove P
Cinnamon P
Thyme P
Cedar
Peppermint
Rosemary
D limonene and orange oil (also have risks)

Ticks are hard to repel or kill naturally. Inspection is key to natural tick control.

It is best to spray your dog daily with a mixture of oils as applying like frontline requires spreading agents to be used.

Patty – I had to look up “vermifuges”

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by USA.

[Leah12345]

Thanks TheNaturalDog! I will research Merrick. Also, can you explain the canned food like pumpkin to aid digestion? I keep reading about supplementing with canned pumpkin or sweet potatoes when I am scanning threads, but don’t have any information. What is the purpose of doing it? Do I add it to her food when I feed her or is it separate? Is there a ratio or rule of thumb for how much to give her? I am guessing the pre-and pro-biotics will have directions so I am not so worried about that. Thanks for the guidance. Being a dog-mama is trickier than I remembered. Leah

[Akari_32]

It’s not that I’m not wanting a pit bull, it’s that I just *really* want a bull terrier. Like, for 10 years or so– and I’m only 20. I want them both (among much larger, and less common breeds like the Irish Wolfhound), but I’m more on the bull terrier side. What really decides it is money when the times comes. How much it is to get a puppy from whatever breeder I decide to go with, how close they are and how I’m going to be getting the puppy, if there even are puppies available, if a rescue has a dog I like, how much and where it is, and how it’s going to get to me, if I don’t have the money for said dog or puppy, and/or fall in love with a dog from one of the various shelters around here.

Obviously, a breeder is always going to have puppies, but a rescue is not going to have the same selection, which is why I’m not pushing too much for that right now. When it comes down to it, I will be looking at what rescues and shelters have, but I can’t count on either to have a dog for several years until I’m ready for it. Which is why I’m looking at both, and find the best few of each. Another big reason for me going to a breeder though is I will be living with room mates, and they will have their own animals, as well as what ever I have. Rescues can *say* a dog is good with other dogs, cats, men, etc, but when the dog is moved from home to home, that can easily change. I am shopping around for both, but when it comes down to it, I have more to factor in than just puppy vs adult. I need to figure in the safely of the existing animals at the time I’m ready for this dog.

And really, I don’t even know when I will be getting this puppy/dog. My rott mix is extremely aggressive toward outside dogs, and very protective of me. So I’m basically waiting on him to pass, which is hopefully no time soon. He’s my 130 pound baby, and I love him to death. But they can’t live forever… I’m also going on almost 15 years of rescue dogs. Don’t get me wrong, give me any dog and I’ll love it for the rest of life, but I’d like to explore all my options for my next dog.

[Akari_32]

Dropping in to let you guys know Bentley is fully on the Instinct, and even after being on it for only a few days, I can already feel difference in his fur, which is crazy. He’s eating 3/4 of a cup right right now, as per our best guesses from the bag and calorie calculator (apparently dogs don’t weigh 6-9 pounds according to Natures Variety LOL), so we’ll see how that goes and work it out from there. Hopefully he can go down to a 1/2 cup, but probably not, since it’s 460 calories a cup, and he’s a crazy little dog.

(Also, is anyone else having issues posting new threads today? I’ve tried to three times today and got an error the first time, a duplicate content message the second time, and absolutely nothing happened the third time. Like, it went through, but I have nothing to show for it. Very strange….)

[checker]

Hi, I am new to this. My 12 year old female Pomeranian was put on by the Vet.Hill’s k/d renal. I am reading it is garbage food. My Pom.Peanut has 2 kidney stones, an enlarged heart with murmur and just had a recent removal of the rest of her teeth but 2. I was told by Pet Wise, I live in Windsor,On,Canada that there is Hi-Tor Neo that is better than the Hill’s. These are the only 2 foods I can give her and I am looking for other reviews or suggestions. I read a little that both are junk. I am not in a financial situation to be making it homemade, whatever that would contain. Please help me, I am in a little panic on what to use for her. She is on the canned wet food, but I can also soak and mush the dried if necessary.
Sincerely,Kim

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~
That 8 lb. chicken was supposed to be just the start until my MPC order came in. I figured I could work out the calcium/bone/organ stuff as I was packing portions from my order. I’m not a veg head but it’s rare when I eat meat and then only certain cuts, so the only thing I found in the freezer was some seasoned lamb, a flank steak and some chicken thighs I had portioned to boil in broth for use as training incentives – I put a tasty chunk in my mouth and Mystery is fixed on me (and when he’s not, I eat it).

I pulled out the flank steak and a couple of thighs. If I didn’t season the flank steak before sealing it up, we ought to get at least another day and a half out of it – no bones though. I do still worry about calcium since Mystery’s only 10 months old. I know they can absorb excess calcium better after six months and he is getting more, but I’m not ready to go all out yet. I just had a great thought – I can always raid my neighbor’s freezer – they’re out of town, assuming I can get the quarter mile up their steep driveway.

Mystery keeps barking at the snow and Falkon keeps attacking the windows as the snow flurries by. We are kinda rural – about 3200′ up in the mountains of NC. Still, when I can get down the mountain, I’m only 20 minutes from the grocery store, Walmart, Sam’s… There’s only five homes up here and only three are occupied year-round. Nice and quiet. With all this snow though, I wish I could let Mystery run wild in it, but he still doesn’t have perfect recall at 10 months old so the best I can do is hook him up to a post on the house and let him roll around in the snow. If it’s decent out tomorrow, maybe I’ll run the 50′ rope around a tree in the yard so I can get some pics of him hopping around.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~
I purchased the book by Dr. Becker that Patty mentioned, but we’re going to have a setback here in one day – and a rather expensive one at that. We finally got our winter snow which means delayed freezer delivery, delayed food delivery from MPC – it’s been sent but UPS won’t be able to make it up the mountain until it stops snowing and someone decides to clear the road. Mystery has just two servings of chicken that will get us through Friday morning. I wonder if I should just thaw a flank steak and cut it up for him. Hmmm…

Other than the coming food shortage, everything seems to be going well. When I cut the chicken up, I weighed it out and put it baggies. When I finally get going with larger amounts of meat, I’ll use the vacuum sealer to create a variety of single portions. I’ve found that if I pull out portions two days ahead of time, they’re completely thawed when I’m ready for them.

As for clean up… that’s getting a little easier. At first, Mystery was a bit put off by the one paw out to be cleaned at a time. I use an old soapy rag to wipe his paws as he comes out and then use the same rag – washed and soaped up a second time, to clean inside the crate. He’s getting used to the routine.

The one with the biggest problem is Falkon, my little Maine Coon carnivore. I had been giving him some of the raw chicken but then read that feeding raw and kibble can create digestive problems so I stopped. He now spends dinner time slipping his big polydactyl paws between the crate bars and into Mystery’s bowl. Because he’s poly – he has the usual four “fingers” and an additional two “thumbs”, it doesn’t matter that his claws are clipped, he uses those opposable thumbs to snatch some food and even grabbed a bone that Mystery dropped yesterday. Mr. Mischievous!

I appreciate the list of meat to bone percentages you posted from the FB group. When I cut the whole chicken up for Mystery, I didn’t worry too much about the ratio, I just figured, if he found the chicken himself he’d eventually get around to eating the whole thing, skin and all. Using the calculation given, Mystery’s chicken was a little over 8 lbs., multiplied by 31% means there was 2.48 lbs. of bone. So now what do we do? I guess we are supposed to strip the meat from the excess bone. Next time. I can’t wait for the raw conference.

I took a look at the photos and videos you posted on phanfare. A.D.O.R.A.B.L.E!!!

Edit: I just took Mystery outside and the steps from the porch to the sidewalk are missing. Our footprints from when we went out two hours ago – gone. My boots sank upward of my ankles. Pulling out whatever red meat I have in the freezer.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Susan]

Patch never had the Ultra Scan he has been doing well on the Zantac & the pain under his right rib cage has gone again, I want the test done when he is real ill again not when he’s better like the blood test I had done for Pancreas, I had them when he was better, they came back all clear, should of been done when he’s was unwell..I dont want another false reading for the vets as its confusing them.. The vets where I go are very very busy, by the time u book something Patch seems to get better then he’s ill again.. I really think he has either a ulcer & a Ultra scan cannot pick this up or he’s suffering from Acid refux. He’s always burping.. I heard the vets talking about GERDS… Something I suffer from the acid comes & goes u have good days then u have bad days..

[ExplEngineer]

I have adopted two English Mastiffs, one is ~3yrs old and the other is 7mos old. Yes, I know that they have some different nutritional requirements, but I also know that #1: They are inseparable, father-son, & totally dedicated to each other; #2: Yes, I know that I can separate them at feeding time, or at any other time, I can train them to do what I tell them to do, etc. but I can also raise happy, well adjusted dogs that do what they are told when obedience is a real requirement, I took in both of them because I can tell from their interactions that while they could be raised separately, they will be happier being together, and I am at that age that while they will have to accept responsibilities as a Certificated Service Dog(s), I can be genuinely happy when they are genuinely happy and unless or until a problem arises (which I shall always be diligent in looking for indicators, I am not oblivious to these matters), I can afford to raise two Mastiffs and my goal is to make their lives as happy, and as stress-free as I can make it consistent with the rules of my house. The eat at the same time, generally out of their own bowls, but they have been known to trade out the bowls that they are eating out of, and they eat far better when they are fed together. I have been using Purina Large Breed Dry Dog Food (which is what I have fed both Blackhawk, whom I just lost, and Othello before him and who my Vet has commented as to how healthy looking they were, and they could maintain proper weight on that diet), 20oz-22oz supplemented with about 0.5lbs of meat b.i.d. Until the youngest is about a year old, I will mix in Puppy Chow to ensure that he is also getting the correct balance of nutrients for a growing puppy, while allowing the adolescent (these large dogs are generally not fully and finally developed until they reach 3.5 to 4.0 yrs old) to partake of the same mixture. My principle guidelines in feeding are to watch the weight and weight gain and growth of the each of my lads, and as long as they appear to be doing well, have great looking coats and show no signs of nutritional deficiencies, in consultation with my Vet I continue to use the same foods in their diet. The meat component will vary from Hot Dogs, which allow good portion control and consistency, are nutritious and if properly selected provide a proper cross-section of meat(s), while being required to meet USDA standards for human food, provide some variety, and are easily kept while we are on the road in the motor home, and not requiring any continual readjustments to new diets at home and away. When we put up a steer in the freezer, I not only set aside beef from it for the lads, but have it packaged in serving size containers for portion control, plus I set aside a portion of it to be prepared into “jerky treats” (I am no longer comfortable with the commercially available jerky treats, + every now and then I can snitch one of theirs when it is time for a treat). Having said all of that, I am never too old, or too stubborn to learn, or to find a new means of feeding the boys if it is to their advantage. Fortunately, while in this economy no one can say that cost is never a factor, but it is not a controlling factor, and if there is a valid reason to convert to other foods or additions to their diets, I am more than willing to change them over, notwithstanding a price or cost increase. Please jump in and share your views, I’m new here and truly interested in having the happiest and healthiest well-behaved and well-trained Mastiffs around.

[Lance & Nikki]

Hi! I was researching some info on food for our dogs and I came upon this site and more importantly, this great thread. I read some of the thread but didn’t see what I was looking for exactly, so my apologies if this has already been addressed, but I really want to make sure that we are doing the right thing when it comes to feeding our wonderful dogs.

We have a Great Dane that is now almost 13 months old and we have a St Bernard puppy that will be 14 weeks old this Friday. Right now we are feeding them both Artemis Fresh Mix for medium and large breed puppies. We went with this food because it got good reviews and from what we could find, it’s a high quality food. But now that Pepper (our Dane) is over a year old, we were thinking of transitioning her to an adult food and preferably a grain free one because she does have a rather sensitive stomach. In researching this, we saw that calcium content is an issue in giant breed dogs, especially breeds like the Great Dane, and it seems that many grain free foods are higher in calcium.

What we want to switch Pepper over too is the Merrick grain free line of foods because from everything we have ever read, Merrick is a fantastic company that makes extremely high quality food. And since we have to get the Artemis food shipped in because nobody locally carries it, and we already use the Merrick canned food a couple of times a week to supplement the dry food and both our dogs love it, we would really like to use the Merrick food once our dogs are old enough to switch to adult food. I did e-mail Merrick to find out what their calcium content is by dry matter and they sent me the following:

Grain Free Chicken- 2.50%
Grain Free Buffalo- 2.50%
Grain Free Duck- 2.50%
Grain Free Pork- 2.32%

Now these are all over the recommended limit of 1.3% to 1.5% that I have read about for giant breed dogs, but most of those limits were for their growth stage. My question (and concern) is, is Pepper old enough now where the calcium content of the food isn’t as critical as it would be if she were still a fast growing puppy (she’s right about 100 pounds now and hasn’t put on much weight at all in the last few months, she’s seems pretty steady at her current weight and size)? She currently is eating twice a day (morning and evening) about 2 cups at each feeding.

Sorry for the long winded first post and thank you in advance for any advice/information you can throw our way, it is greatly appreciated!

Lance & Nikki

[dachshundmom]

Hello all,

I’m new to the forum, and really excited about all the information I’ve found already. But I have a bit of a unique problem, I think. I have an 8-year old dachshund named Ethel, who spent most of her life on brands that are well-ranked on this site. Last year we (me, Ethel, and her “dad”) to Southeast Asia, for work. We’re living in a big city with a fair amount of foreign goods available, but there are only two imported dog foods: Pedigree and Royal Canin, neither of which are ranked well here. Royal Canin is the better of the two (2.5 stars) but it was the first food that has ever upset her stomach, and the vet asked us to switch off it (to the Pedigree) when blood started appearing in her poop.

I’d like to make my own, and can access all sorts of chicken, beef, pork, fish parts. I can’t, however, buy much in the way of supplements. So…I’ve been using brown rice and leaner meat, mixed with kale or spinach, sweet potato, peas, carrots and other random veggies (Ethel LOVES vegetables, always has). She eats a few sliced apples or mangos a week, instead of dog treats. Her weight has stayed the same (she’s fit) and her coat looks good, and all her tests come back with good results. But I’m winging it. And the “mom” in me is worried that without fish oil pills or glucosamine, I’m doing her major damage. But it’s got to be better than the Pedigree, right?

Does anyone have things I should add in, beyond the stuff mentioned above? If you have weird animal body parts (kidneys? hearts?) that you know of that provide the same things as the supplements people in the US seem to be using, I’d GREATLY appreciate some advice.

Thank you!
Cristina (and Ethel)