[Barbara O]

You are so welcome. Please realize that I’m not that smart…it’s called being older and learning from experience and reading…asking questions like you do…and using common horse sense when ruminating over the answers that people give you. I give a great deal of credence to people who have been around the block a few times and who spend time reading between the lines…Remember…anyone can put stuff in print on the internet…I love books that are the printed word. When Toby developed pancreatitis, between my vet and a book I have on hand, we pulled him through. I wouldn’t be without the book…It at least tells me what to do at home while I’m waiting to get an animal to the vet’s office…and some good tips after I go…I learned that we have to keep them hydrated but at the same time keep the pancreas still and not taxing itself….It was Christmas Day when Toby got sick…so we’ve come a long way and we’ve had no more problems…and it was my fault that he got sick. I had fixed a standing rib roast for Christmas and left the pan on top of the cabinet…the grease cooled and rose to the top…I had put water in the pan…I had a sick rescue Dane and hadn’t washed the pan…Toby got on top of the sink….genets can climb anywhere…and swished his tail in the pan, covering his long, long tail in the grease…these animals are fastidious..so he immediately went to cleaning it… When i finally set down after getting Mandy the dog stabilized and medicated…she had a UTI…he jumped into my lap and i felt the wet, greasy feeling tail….he had consumed all that grease…too, too much for a little 3 to 4 lb animal….The next morning he was lethargic…we saw the vet that day and he was started on meds…then we went back and they had to put 50 ccs of fluid under his skin…it took three of us to hold him down in a tube that was meant to do this…it was then i learned how to give him a teaspoon of water every hour on the hour to keep him hydrated, interspersed with a teaspoon of blended food….several times a day….My husband and I had tried to keep him hydrated with 10 ccs subcu but couldn’t hold him down….strong little cuss…first animal I haven’t been able to hold down…As I said, he can be a little Tasmanian devil….I hydrated the Dane with no problem….

Every day I learn something new…that’s why I love sites like this…It helps me tweak what I do for my own animals and it also helps me know what I’m doing right, that has worked for years and years…when something works, your animal is healthy and happy…don’t change what you’re doing…Our animals are individuals…I can’t eat wheat…developed a problem with it…causes horrible arthritis in me…I also know this hasn’t always been the case…same way with chicken…developed something called polymyalgia…docs sent me to rheumatoid clinic at our teaching hospital here…not rheumatoid arthritis so they gave it this fancy name…found out it was being caused by chicken…I was eating it almost every day…I was the one who found the connection…not the docs, just me…case in point….you know your animals better than anyone else…I told one person I won’t feed Purina…had a bad experience with it…not the quality I want for my animals…but that doesn’t mean that others have the same results…From my animal science degree, the various vet courses I’ve taken, and from working with various animals and exotic vets across the US, I have learned a great deal….All I can do is try to put together what I’ve learned to care for what the animals I’ve been blessed to have…I’m seeing too many animals with allergies…something is going on…and I’m seeing these allergies in animals on kibble, raw diets….etc…It’s so hard for me to believe this is a permanent situation….I would start questioning the surrounding environment…not something an individual may be doing but what the animal is coming in contact with that’s not food related…that’s how my allergies started…I cleaned up my environment, cleaned up my diet, starting building my immune system, and now my allergies are almost non-existent. Hopefully, this will happen to the animals out there that are suffering…

[Bobby dog]

Hi Barbara O:
A few of us on this thread have been weening our cats off of kitty crack…this may never happen, but we do our best. I also try not to feed fish to my cats, tuna especially. Moisture is critical for a cat’s UT system. Currently I am now down to feeding each cat approximately two tablespoons of dry GF food a day. Hopefully, I can ween them off of dry food as well. Again, that may never happen.

I would love to feed my cat’s quality food consistently however they are finicky and after many years of cheap canned cat food, they like what they like. Sometimes they get half Wellness (or other quality canned food) and half Purina, sometimes straight Wellness, and sometimes just Purina when they turn everything else down. I would rather feed Purina then have health issues due to a cat not eating food.

I do think Halo’s recipes look great. I have fed it in the past to my dog, but stopped when I contacted them and asked who co-packs their food and they would not disclose that information to me. I believe one of the regulars on this thread feeds it to their cats with great results.

Regardless if a cat is a stray or not dry food is not an ideal diet for a cat and I do not consider canned cat food, meat, or raw food a treat for them; I consider them healthy foods for a cat regardless of the quality. Please check out catinfo.org for information on what is important in a cat’s diet. There is an abundance of information on this site about nutrition and other subjects concerning cat care that I am sure you will find interesting! 🙂

[Todd R]

Zignature- It is given 4 stars here I understand for a couple of reasons: Use of pea protein (Which I understand could be considered a filler protein, thus overstating the protein content of the food) and Beet Pulp (This is an on the fence ingredient and because of not having definitive proof as a questionable product, personally I think it should not be considered a negative or questionable ingredient) I do also know that they do not own their own manufacturing facility (which is just a chance that this could cause any problems and may never be a problem at all.) The main reason that I feel it should be an editor’s choice is the fact that it is a Grain-Free, Potato Free, Simple ingredient food. These 3 aspects have been invaluable in my choice of a dog food. I was a previous buyer of California Natural because my dog has multiple allergies and has a pretty sensitive stomach. When they had their MULTIPLE recalls. (Even if you have your own manufacturing facility it does not guarantee anything in the way of contaminated food.) While I appreciated their apparent transparency concerning the recalls, I could not bring myself to go back to that food. (My pet supply store stopped selling it as well and I am extremely loyal to my pet supply store and they are unbelievably knowledgeable on the food brands that they sell.) In any case, When the recalls happened, my pet supply store sent me a personal email as one of their customers who purchased California Natural and at that time they suggested that I come in and discuss my options going forward. It was at that time that I learned about Zignature and it seemed like a no brainer for the issues that my dog has. He has now rotated though all the single protein foods and has done better than he did on the California Natural. Stable health in every way and he is 11 years old. I can not recommend it enough. Personally I think, it should be rated at least 4.5 stars if not 5 for the added benefit it gives to people that have dogs with allergy and sensitivity issues. These are intangibles that mean so much to a dog of this type. There you have it. I hope this food might make your list in the near future. Thanks for reading my post.

[marmarx89]

I apologize, I never saw the messages directed to me to relay my order. I am very nervous now ordering food from here after reading everyone’s responses. I typically order the bulk Turkey necks and green tripe. I have alternated through purchasing the American Bully mix, Chip’s agility mix, Beef and Turkey Grind, and the Beef, Chicken, Lamb grind. I personally have never had an issues with my order or picking up my food, but I am most concerned about the quality of the food. The website states: ALL OUR FOOD SUPPLYS ARE FROM USDA FACILITYSS.
OUR FACILITY WAS and STILL IS A BUTCHER SHOP, CITY AND STATE APPROVED.
YOU WILL NOT FIND A BETTER PLACE TO GET YOUR DOG FOOD FROM.
FAMILY OWNED AND OPERATED PROUD TO BE MADE IN THE USA. I have never found anything wrong with the meat, foreign plastic pieces or poor quality… as far as I could tell. Should I discontinue purchasing food from them? Ughhh

[Barbara O]

If you’ll read, I believe they have a digestive enzyme…I feed twice a day also…but I either add in the AM or the PM….He gets his salmon oil in the mornings…I usually give him his glucosamine in the evening…I was giving him Costco pills but he would spit them out so I ordered the dog liquid from Vita Cost…then I discovered I could put the two pills in a jigger of water and they would be completely dissolved by the time I fed…

I rotate my brands….but I always feed grain free to all my animals…including my cats…I have a Maine coon cat and a Savannah…which is a cross between an African cat and a domestic cat…They also get canned food and some Primal..I don’t feed Primal to Roger all the time…because he gets raw bones…If he didn’t get these, he would get some Primal every day…remember, his cousin, the wolf, eats raw meat every day…I’m at work right now but I’ll look at the digestive enzyme I have at home…Toby, my genet, had a case of pancreatitis at Christmas, and I started him on the enzymes after he recovered…I’ll get the name…

I feed the canned Costco no grain dog food mixed in with the kibble, also. It gets a 5…Natural Instinct is wonderful…I fed the grain free by Merrick…can’t think of the name, and he really liked it. I’m feeding a grain free now and I won’t buy it again, but I bought it in a pinch…maybe called Natural Balance…really having to boost it with meat. Tomorrow I will pick up a bag of Costco Grain free salmon….To this I add an egg at each feeding…the perfect protein for both man and beast….I haven’t fed this…my vet said to be careful feeding chicken…you will need to add fat to it…So if I buy Costco, I’ll just buy the salmon or beef grain free and add more protein…since it is a plant based feed…The vet said it is a good feed, though…better than most and very budget friendly…of course, I spend the difference on the things I add…I like Taste of the Wild….it is a 4 and is plant based, though many of the vets here love it…and Danes need to keep watch on the protein due to their size and joints…they grow awfully fast, and Roger is about a year old. He has never had a problem with me just switching brands..no stomach upsets, etc…Just use common sense and ask yourself, would I want someone to switch my diet around all the time? I’ve been taking in orphan animals, raising wildlife, doing wildlife rehab work since I was about 16 or 17, and that’s a long, long time. If I ever learn how to post pictures on this site, will send some before and after pics of the Danes I’ve rescued…and will send a pic of the fennecs and our little Tasmanian monster, Toby the genet.

[Dori]

LOL Cyndi. You probably scared the crap out of Bailey and yourself. It took me awhile with Katie to realize that once in a while all dogs will scratch a regular old itch. I took would yell “Stop It” whenever I would see her scratch and would start checking her skin for any redness. I swear she used to look at me like I’d gone out of my friggin mind. So happy to hear that it WAS the detergent. Dumb vet would have continued to badger you about raw feeding. Glad to hear you got the help you needed here to prove the vet wrong before you did something drastic like go back to kibble. Vets can be awfully stubborn. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, my vets all know I feed raw and have been doing so for a couple of years of more so they can’t play the game of blaming anything on their diets. I feel bad for anyone who is knew to raw and their vets blame the raw food and so they go back to kibble when all along the poor dog’s issue had nothing to do with its diet. I wish vets to get with the raw program already and get over themselves. I mean what? So they took nutrition class for all of about two minutes? For that they expect us to go along with whatever they say just cause they’ve got Dr. in from of their name. Uh Oh! I fear I may be starting to go on a rant here so I’ll stop and just say Yey for Cyndi and Bailey. :>)

[C W]

I have a 4 year old Golden Retriever who has basically always happily eaten 4-ish star dog foods in various meat varieties, some with grains and some without, with seemingly no problem. In recent weeks/months she’s just decided that she won’t eat any of them anymore. She’s had Nature’s Variety Prairie/Instinct, Taste of the Wild, and I just bought her some Blue Buffalo (which she refused entirely).

I’ve already eliminated all ‘extras’ and she just starves herself for days until she throws up bile. Broth is no help, boiled chicken she’ll eat but she threw up the last time I gave it to her, etc.

A week or so ago, I ended up paying for an abdominal x-ray & blood work (clean bill of health from both), a nausea injection, follow-up pills, and Royal Canin Gastrointestinal vet food (which she ate immediately). The Royal Canin is crazy expensive. I ended up mixing it with her regular food and she ate both. The RC ran out & she ate her regular food again and I thought she was better… and then she refused to eat again.

In desperation I bought her a small bag of Pedigree (barf), which she scarfed down. 🙁 I’ve noticed that the kibble size is much larger in the Pedigree. All the “holistic” brands I’ve seen have tiny diameter kibble… I’m wondering if that’s part of the reason for the refusal?

Are there any ‘good’ foods that have larger kibble? Or does anyone have any other ideas about what might be wrong??

• This topic was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by C W.

[Dori]

Hi Naturella. As I mentioned I’ve been using Sentinel Flavor Tabs (regular Sentinel) for years and gave them the last of that kind August 1st. It is my understanding that they are fazing out the regular Sentinel and only what is in stock will be available. After that only Sentinel Spectrum will be available. I’ve actually ordered the Spectrum already. At first I was concerned about using the Sentinel Spectrum but after extensive research I realized (and queried the vets) that the tape worm preventative itself has been around for years and years. I give the girls Sentinel the first of every month without fail. As you know, living in Georgia you can never really count on a hard winter. When I lived in the northeast I only used in Summer and Fall. Here I give it year round. Last Winter I stopped cause it was so cold but then read Losul’s plight with Turbo and decided that I’m not taking any chances and have decided that I will stick with year round treatment. I’ve had a lot of dogs all my life and none ever had an issue with it. I know a lot of people have issues with HW meds but I have to air on the side of caution and do what I think will be best for my girls. The treatment for Heartworm is to horrifying for me to even contemplate.

[weezerweeks]

I am having my dog titer tested in a few months because it’s been 3 years since vaccines. If he needs them how do I get just the single vaccines? My vet has a combo and I don’t want the lepto. I really just want the distemper and parvovirus. What do you people give? I also have to have the rabies(law). Is there anything I can give him for side effects. I dread these soo bad. Please give me some advice. Thanks Oh my vet says they don’t make single vaccines.

[Janine v]

With Orijen my dogs had lot of tartar build up. Extremly.
Both chihuahua’s and cats.
Before with bad dry food, white clean teeth 🙁

In november I had one dog clean his teeth by the vet, but already, tartar build up 🙁

I clean his teeth daily now, and changed his food. Don’t want to do anasthesia again 🙁

My cats, can’t clean there teeth, they don’t allow it. Had 2 cats that needed there teeth cleaned by the vet. 🙁 Before I fed Orijen, White clean teeth.

Is there any good dry food, what helps clean there teeth? Because I really don’t like it when they need anasthesia. Raw is not an option, they don’t eat it or get horrible diarrea. 🙁

[aquariangt]

I did some googling (very difficult as I can’t read most of these websites) and found this site mentioned on another forum:

http://www.lacasadelasmascotas.com/b2c/index.php?page=pp_productos.php&tbusq=1&ref=PSPe&md=1

seems like they are based somewhere down there, and Acana/Orijen are both great foods. Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond…not sure if i’d go with a diamond product that looks good on paper or something that is a poorer product. Nutro Ultra is fine I suppose, I think I’ve heard of people using Applaws in Europe. I’ve never heard of the other two brands

[Dori]

I use Perfect Form from THK. I just mix it in with their food anytime I notice that Hannah has loose stools and it pretty much works immediately. Having cancer I think her digestion isn’t what it used to be with all the canine cancer supplements I’ve been giving her. I’d like to back off and see if that’s what’s causing the loose stools but afraid to stop the cancer supplements. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Anyway, I got off thread there for a second. Perfect Form works really really well. I just mix the appropriate dose in with their food. My girls are eaters so I guess the smell just doesn’t bother them. I’m not crazy about the smell, but, hey…if you’ve ever fed tripe, this is nothing compared to that.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Elisa-
I’m glad you are taking her to the vet today. Sheesh, she’s been through enough already. I hope they figure out what is going on.

I strongly suggest taking in another stool sample. There are waterborne parasites, such as giardia that can cause intermittent diarrhea.

Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

Heather,
I haven’t had as much time as usual to read here but I know nothing about large breed nutrition. If you head over to the free part of the forum. I can’t recall which forum has it but look for the stickie, highlighted in yellow, with the list of appropriate foods for large breed puppies.
No one here is a veterinary professional. One gal is a vet student but that’s about it. You posted on a weekend so lots of people are busy. I highly suggest feeding a good from the list I spoke of. Hound dog mom spent a lot of time gathering info for the list.

[Cyndi]

I would suggest keeping him on Eukanuba and the cooked turkey for now. Next time you can get to one of the pet stores near you, write down the dog foods that they carry and post them here so we know what foods are available for you to buy and we can suggest something better. While Eukanuba is certainly not a great food, it’s certainly alot better than just bread and water. While you’re at the pet store, write down the canned foods that are available too. Canned food is better to feed than dry. Let us know what you have available and then someone can help you pick a better food.

[aquariangt]

It’s a forum, not sure what you meant by “run by professionals” but forums are a place where people gather to discuss things. Looking at your previous post, you posted at 5:30 in the morning, that could easily be bumped down to the point where no one even saw it as a recent comment being so early, and not that many people are up and posting on the forums. No need to be rude-and attempting to guilt people doesn’t get you very far, anywhere in life really. (referring to this comment: “should I say Max a 10 week old puppy’s plight is ignored”)

Take a look at the above post that Naturella linked the list of acceptable foods for a large breed puppy, the most recent list in on page 15. Eukanuba is not a good food. That entire thread is full of good information. As opposed to asking “what food can I get around here” since most of us aren’t from spain, post what foods are available, and people can help you from there

[Sully’sMom]

I’m not sure if this is the right thread to ask my question, but I’ve always had lots of luck here (thank you HDM especially) so thought I’d try here first. Haven’t written is quite some time as Sully is now 2 yrs old and doing quite well. We got through the worst of his allergy problems, did some testing, dealt with the results and all in all – he’s great. However, for most of his 2 years he has had loose stool. I’ve mostly been doing a kibble rotation diet, always grain-free (because of his allergies), but the stool, although sometimes it’s worse (tried Zignature recently and stool was MUCH worse – too rich?) and sometimes its better, its never GOOD. My only go to knowledge would be to add canned pumpkin to his food. Any other good foods to try?

[Mom2Cavs]

Hi, Betsy. It very well may be seasonal….Laverne has started with some itching and anal glands again, even though her stool is normal!? She was just at the vets this past Thurs. because I noticed a bump on one of her front legs. The vet expressed her glands and said they were bad, ugh. Vet said it’s probably staph and could even be caused by shampoo being left on and not drying properly or fully (this was said because of where the infection is located). She gave me some muricin salve to rub on the bump. But I may call and get an oral antibiotic for her, as well. Don’t usually like them but want to be sure this doesn’t turn into something even more difficult. Laverne is mine that has allergies, of course, and who snores a lot. She also does reverse sneezing at times. She has a murmur, about 3-4/6, (came on about 2 years ago) but doesn’t cough . Her nose runs sometimes (again allergies). She is eating Wellness Small Breed Simple for kibble and Wellness Stews or Weruva or Simply Nourish for canned topper. I have been giving the Firm Up, but was wondering if she has become intolerant of it? It could be lots of things. I do also give them coq10 3 times a week (30 mg). Right now I decided to not change anything in her diet except removing the Firm Up for awhile, and switching probiotics up. Hazel was checked as well and the vet could barely hear her murmur and rated it a 1/2…..she’s had a murmur since birth with no meds. She has no symptoms of anything and doesn’t snore at all. Rupert, who is on enalapril twice a day and has heart disease (MVD) and a grade 5/6 murmur is doing great. He snores occasionally but not that bad and does not cough at all. He has no other symptoms. I would say this is probably seasonal, but if I were you, I would have your vet or Cardiologist (if you have one) check things out thoroughly. I don’t want to scare you, but I think these things can come on suddenly. According to Rupert’s breeder his came on suddenly, but not really sure…maybe just wasn’t caught before now. I also decided to not really try to reduce the sodium (just making sure it’s not on the too high range). Like I said before, the only heart supplement I have been using regularly is coq10. You could also try adding other things, like fish oil, hawthorne, l-carnitine, coq10 and of course taurine, if you’re not doing so already. There are some all inclusive supplements like Bio-Cardio by Thorne, Vetri-Science Cardio Strength. Also Standard Process Cardio is one my vet likes (but they always prescribe Standard Process). I’ve used the all inclusive ones in the past, but recently have been trying to keep things as simple as I can. I’ve probably not answered your question but hope I’ve helped some.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[Heather D]

Hello members. Thank heavens I have found this site though have done nothing this morning with regard housework as just been reading.
We have a Spanish Mastiff crossed with a German Shepherd, rescued from a filthy pen some 4 weeks ago when he was just 6 weeks old. Riddled with parasites internal and external. Has been to the vet’s three times now but doing very well.
previously we had a couple of English Pointers so I was aware of the growth/calcium issue and they were reared to be 14 years. Dusty the bitch, spayed, died with skin cancer. We live in Spain and she was mostly white and was a momkey for lying in the sun with her legs splayed and stomach bared to the sun, she contracted skin cancer and sadly had to be put to sleep aged 14.
Bracken her pal, though not from the same litter, died just 6 weeks after Dusty with a heart attack.
They were reared for their first 18 months on Hills prescription for large breeds and did really well with it.
Now to our new little, well quite big puppy.
He couldn’t tolerate Hills so the vet advised Eukanuba food for large breed puppies and I give him two small additional feeds of cooked turkey each day to add to his protein as the dry food is 26% and wanted to increase it. He is tolerating it well, but I want him to have the best I can afford, and buy. We are pensioners and though not destitute we have to budget.
Spain is not known for it’s care of dogs, and sadly, living in the heart of Andalucia away from the Costas most dogs are raised on dry bread, yes dry bread and anything else they can find. These are the conditions our puppy Max was born into. Locked in a large fenced and gated pen, the owner coming only once per week to bring a sack of dry bread rolls and fill their water bowls. So we have adopted the family and go each night to feed and water through the fence.
The parents and the 2 other pups are doing well, and the owner as a thankyou gave us Max.
There are just 2 pet stores within a couple of hours drive that do sell some varied brands.
We want the very best for Max and from your lists I just don’t know if I am going to find any of the foods you mention.
My question is, sorry after this ramble, if I cannot find any you mention will Max be ok continuing on his Eukanuba for large breed puppies along with his cooked turkey, and are there any other things I can give him to supplement if he has to stay on this diet?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shelley –

You might find this thread helpful: /forums/topic/eating-raw-meaty-bones/

There’s some videos there of one of my dogs eating RMBs so you can get an idea of what’s normal.

[Susan]

Poor boy, Patch has Pancreatitis & IBD, at first Patches vet said colitis, cause he was pooing light red blood, they’re awful illnesses, you have to read every label to see the fat% & Patch has troubles with protein, it cant be too high, has to be under 24%, he was put on Vet diet Eukanuba Intestinal, he’s been on the Eukanuba Intestinal for 11 months then finally our Pet Barn got the “Wellness Simple” Duck & Oatmeal..so far this has been the only kibble that has agreed with Patch as well as his Intestinal.. I’m so slowly introducing the Simple, I’m halfway, so far Patch is doing good, no acid reflux, poos are excellent, Poos are better on the Simple then on the Intestinal….I make Patches biscuits, you’ll find a recipe for no fat cookies on the net, I have a few cookies dog recipes if needed, there’s a group on Yahoo called “dogpancreatitis” you see what other people are using & doing with their dogs…..hope he gets well soon…

[Candice S]

thank you very much for this link, elizabeth. it is enlightening while at the same time somewhat disheartening. one would have reasonably thought that the highly touted feeding trials were more scientific than they apparently are (e.g., using randomized comparison groups; testing across the lifespan; trials that went longer than 6 months!). and, i must admit i have wondered how one could truly rely upon a pet food simply because veterinarians were working for a particular pet food company. how likely would that vet be to readily disclose shortcomings of that food? a little like the fox guarding the henhouse. in any case, i suppose the moral of the story is that there are no absolutes out there.
best, candice

[Akari_32]

He’s definitely doing better. Got a bit of a ways to go, but we’re getting there for sure.

I agree with you on the chemical and such side of that. What I meant by average is brands (like Pro Plan and Hills) that promote themselves to be the best of the best, and have minimal (chemical, etc) additives to them, but also have some thought and research behind them. Not that I think either of these brands are overly good, but they do have their places, and at this point I’m about ready to try anything. But I do know to stay away from certain things. The price point on these two Pro Plans is great. Like $15 a case usually. That’s something we can definitely handle. It’d be good for keeping the cost down and for some variety.

All I said to them (all of them) was that I needed a low carb food. I’m thinking Hill’s response was them thinking they were going to get my money anyways. Silly Hill’s– I’m not that stupid LOL

I know small breed foods typically have more calories per cup, which is great in my case for Haley, my 11 year old 60 lb lab mix. She can’t stomach too much dry food at once, so toy and small breed foods are typically a good choice if I can’t get a puppy or other higher calorie food. And large breed puppy foods, if formulated properly, have certain calcium and phosphorus levels and ratios. Beyond that, I don’t know if makes any difference giving large breed food to small breed dogs lol

[Akari_32]

Hey guys. Just updating. No baths in a few weeks, but his hair is growing back really well (new growth is about an inch long), and his skin is no longer red all over. Still red at his paws and up his hind legs some, and around his nose, but his body is back to pinkish-white, and he is chewing and scratching much less (and doesn’t smell nasty all the time). I’ve been giving him 3/4 of a can of By Nature 95% one day, and the next day he gets the rest of the can, and 1/4 cup of THK, mixed with however much water it needs to thin it back out to the consistency of just canned food.

He does need a bath right now (some one *cough* mom *cough* cleaned up pee in the hallway around his cage and then thought it was a good idea to put the pee towel in the cage because she didn’t want to walk it to the laundry room…), and I’ll use his medicated shampoo, and then wash him with his new shampoo and conditioner (supposed to be really good for their skin and coat, and has keratin in it– I’ll get the name of it in a bit).

I’m looking at some other foods to add in to his diet. I’ve emailed several companies and asked for the as fed carb values of their foods. My answers so far:

Purina Pro Plan:
“We appreciate your interest in our products. Please know that this information is not something we have readily available and takes time on the part of our nutritionist to determine. We cannot provide it for each and every one of our products.

However, if you can narrow your choice to a particular flavor or two, we’ll be happy to fulfill your request. Please understand it may take some time to process this information. We appreciate your patience.”

What the crap is that?? You don’t keep this info on hand?? Yeah, ok. Anyways, I went through the review side, and picked out all the four star formulas. More than they asked for, but whatever. My thought on the Pro Plan is that maybe an “average” food rather than a “fancy” food would do him some good. Some dogs don’t do well on high quality foods– we all know this. One of those if its ain’t broke sort of deals. Just an idea for a back up food. It’ll take some time to get an answer from them, I’ll assume.

Hill’s:
“Thank you for visiting HillsPet.com and sending us your message.

Due to your special pet’s medical condition we would suggest that you speak to your veterinarian for a food recommendation. Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Inc. offers a full line of therapeutic products which are formulated for the management of certain health issues that can develop in pets. The product that will work best for your pet depends upon his or her individual circumstances and is something that your veterinarian will have to help you to determine.

We appreciate your interest in Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Inc. If we can help in any other way, contact our Consumer Affairs Department toll-free at 1-800-445-5777 8AM-5PM CST, Monday-Friday or revisit HillsPet.com.

Sincerely,

Consumer Affairs
Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Inc.”

I was hoping to get some values on Ideal Balance. Another “average” food sort of idea. But looking at the values on the can today at the store (they have dry matter basis on the Hill’s website), I’m ditching this food. Way too low protein and just 4.5 and 5%. And toooooooons of carbs. Each can has a protein source, and then three or four carbs sources. No thanks!

Nutro:
” Dear Danielle,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to contact us. Our canned food for dogs average about 5% carbs. Canned food is low in carbs because they are primarily water or broth (around 78%). We do not make anything that will have lower values than 5%.

……

Hi Danielle-
None of our dry foods will have a carbohydrate level as low as 15%. They average 30-45%. Canned food, by nature, will have the lowest carbs, as they are primarily made of water/broth. The Ultra™ and the Natural Choice® Chunks & Gravy formulas have the lowest amounts (approx. 4%). Hope this information helps!”

All of the Nutro Natural Choice and Ultra cans are right in our price range, at $21 to $28 a 12 can case. The Large Breed recipes seem to be the best looking as far as how much to feed, and protein values. And if the carb values they gave are correct, they are right where I want to stay. Very nice looking line. I don’t tend to follow the whole dog’s size and age marketing thing, but he’s only 8 pounds. Would a large breed (puppy and adult food) be fine for him? He’s two years old, and should be about 8 pounds (he’s probably 7-ish).

And theres always EVO. Good price point, but high fat. Not a food I’d have him on all the time. Maybe I’ll use it to keep his weight up. I’m having trouble keeping his weight up with out him eating us out of house and home. I’m trying to do the best by him and by moms budget. $20 a case where he’s eating the whole can every meal is not helping the budget issue. The By Nature is great, but its not high calorie enough, and I don’t think high fat enough, either. He’s an active little guy, and needs something that can keep him beefed up.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or input or anything, throw it out there!

[David T]

I am considering switching my 2 year old IW food (Blue Buffalo Large Breed) to one of the editors choices recommendations. I think Blue Buffalo has been giving my IW infrequent (1-2 times every couple of months) diarrhea. I have heard that Blue buffalo mixes there vitamins separately which can cause abnormal dose in the dry food. I like Blue because of the low calcium <1.5%. However, I have noticed that a lot of the editors choice brands have very high Calcium levels in their food. From what I have read, (on this site) it is recommended to stay below 1.5% Calcium. Are there any dog food brands that are high quality and tailored to large/giant breeds?

[losul]

Aw debi, it’s just these type of situations that is so heartbreaking, and especially knowing that I can’t really be of much help. I can’t imagine how bad you must feel and especially to be hit suddenly with it. Under these circumstances, it’s hard and awkward for me to try and touch on the subject, but I will try in some small way.

This just goes way beyond any advice I could give you, I couldn’t begin to tell you, about prognosis, and whether it’s an end stage thing. I think if possible, you should work with a good vet, and preferably a holistic/integrative vet that also has an understanding of these things, like milk thistle,to make good decisions. There’s just so many factors involved, such as the cause of liver failure, i.e. disease, leptospirosis or other baterial/viral infections, acute or chronic, poisoning by things like aflatoxin, mycotoxins, poisonous mushrooms, degree of damage, degree of discomfort to your dog, medications being given, cancer etc.

Ordinarily, the liver has a very remarkable ability to regenerate damaged cells, if there is still enough of it healthy, and it’s not overwhelmed. Unfortunately symptons of disease/faiure, don’t often show up until much of it’s capacity has already been damaged.

So much is still unknown about the mechanism’s of action from the compounds, most notably silymarin, in milk thistle . I have some rudimentary knowledge, the little that was passed down to me, and some that I have researched, but I really don’t know anywhere near enough. It’s said to be a potent antioxidant and has anti-carcinogenic properties. It’s said to to help liver cells regenerate, protect them from damage, reduces iron in the liver which can contribute to damage, etc. There is evidence that it inhibits certain enzymes in the liver, including some involved in metabolizing certain medications. In the case of some acute poisonings, and if milk thistle is given soon enough, it could partly be the inhibition of some these same enzymes that prevents the liver from metabolizing those hepatotoxins and harming the liver? (I don’t really know that’s just speculation on my part). Why it apparently worsened the jaundice and lethargy in your dogs case, I could really only speculate as to that also.

Oh God, I wish I could be of more help. I’m so sorry. My thoughts and best wishes are with you.

[MastiffMomma]

Hi everyone–I hope someone can help me out here! My mom has a 9 year old JR/Chihuahua cross who has had diabetes for about a year now. He is currently on Royal Canin Moderate Calorie Gastrointestinal Veterinary Exclusive dry and wet food, and has been on this since he was diagnosed with diabetes. He currently takes 8 units of insulin twice daily, and weighs about 15lbs.

Since adopting my own dog (mastiff/German shepherd/ lab cross) I have begun researching dog food and ingredients, and after reading the label of my mom’s dog’s food I am concerned that he is not getting the nutrition he needs. The first ingredients are brewers rice, chicken byproduct meal, corn, and brown rice. There are also several other ingredients noted as “controversial” according to DFA. This food is also quite expensive for the number of poor ingredients it contains ($40 for an 4kg bag of dry food, plus the canned food to mix with as he is a picky eater).

I was wondering if anyone here could recommend a low calorie dry dog food that would be suitable for him? I know it’s difficult to put a star value on therapeutic dog food, so something with higher quality ingredients and no byproduct meals would be excellent.

Thanks in advance!

[Elizabeth P]

I am reading Good Old Dog by faculty of the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University. On page 28 it says: “Finally, make sure the wording includes something about how the food went through “animal feeding tests using AAFCO procedures” rather than simply was “formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.” It’s perfectly legal to create a food according to the accepted formula. But it means the food was never actually tested in dogs with an AAFCO feeding trial.”

I am feeding a 5-star Wellness food, but can find nothing on the bag about feeding trials. Is there a list somewhere of foods that have gone through feeding trials? Or is this not as important as the authors of this book state?

[Dori]

Hi Cyndi. I’ve been reading this forum and wondering what, if anything, I can add. One…..Wait until blood test results come back. I hope that you had your vet do a complete CBC and also thyroid work up. Thyroid lab results always take a few more days to come back then the rest of tests. Hannah has been hypothyroid for years (loss of hair, etc. etc.). Another thing is that if you can afford it please don’t go with Bravo (recalls and other issues that I have heard about from friends that used to feed Bravo). Primal is an excellent choice. Obviously so is Darwins (in the long run, cheaper that most commercial raw diets). Also Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Natures Variety Instinct Raw. Obviously there are many other fine quality commercial complete and balanced raw diets. Please wait, breathe, and wait for test results. Then……weigh your options. The last option you should go with, imho, is kibble, especially with a dog that has been eating raw. Wait and see what’s going on with Bailey before jumping ship. Keep us posted.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[Bobby dog]

How is everyone’s summer going? The rabbit moved out a few weeks ago. There is a small bunny that I see sometimes when I am mowing. I like to think it’s him/her. Lol Now I have a nest of baby swallows in my barn. I have a family move in each year. The first nest was attacked by a black snake earlier last month. Needless to say I now look up before I walk into the barn now. Yuck, that was creepy to see that snake hanging from the rafters eating those eggs.

Sharon: I hope you are having a better time with flea meds.

So I did a little shopping this week. Stopped at the pet store and Bobby got many sample bags of Stella & Chewy’s “Carnivore Crunch” beef treats. Huge hit with him. They are about 1 x ½” long and are tube shaped. He also got samples of Precise Naturals GF Lamb, which he loved, and samples of PMI Exclusive Lamb & Rice and Chic & Rice recipes.

I found one new dry kibble for the kitties, Simply Nourish Source GF Chic & Turkey, they all love it. I like the shape; it is a small “T” shape, not too thick. I also got samples of Fromm’s Salmon ala Veg and Beef Livattini. They hated Salmon ala Veg, haven’t tried the other. It is half the size of Wellness kibble, round with two flat sides. Still searching for a third kibble for rotation. KLN’s Pure Vita might be a posssibility and the store is also selling Natural Planet Organics (both from Nutrisource’s parent company). Even though Organics is not GF I still might give it a try.

I tried the Freshpet Roasted Chicken too. Only two cats would eat it and they never cleaned their bowls. I mixed it with their usual canned and tried feeding it on its own. Archie ate a little then begged me for other food. Still trying to introduce it to them, but I don’t think they are going to warm up to it.

They had by Nature Organics Chic & Mackeral on sale so I thought I would give it a try. All the cats loved it. I am going to try the plain chicken flavor next. It didn’t have a bad regular price $1.39/6 oz. I don’t think it comes in this size anymore though.

The last food I tried was Purina’s new Beyond canned. Found it at my Wal-Mart for $1.07/can. Can anyone say overpriced? I picked up the GF chic pate’ and the GF turkey with gravy by mistake. I didn’t read the label properly because I don’t like to feed food with gravy. I fed both flavors, they loved them. The turkey with gravy is a small chunk style food with not too heavy gravy. I’ll feed the GF chic pate’ again, not the turkey because of the gravy; another food for the rotation.

[Susan]

Hi Vanessa, when I first rescued Patch he’d clear a room, it was awful…I put him on a dog probiotic & changed his food… have a look at the Wellpet Range, they make “Holistic Select” & “Wellness” kibbles & wet, the Holistic Select has a grainfree Adult & Puppy health Salmon Anchovy & Sardine meal or there’s Deboned Turkey & Lentils, maybe he cant handle the high protein so pick a kibble with a bit lower protein….but the Royal Canin is full of crap & probably the same price as a good quaility kibble, make sure you read the ingredients when picking a new kibble & pick a kibble that has different ingredients to the Blue Buffalo cause something is giving him bad gas which isnt good..also try some wet tin foods aswell, kibble is over proccessed & harder to digest, even some nice home cooked meals or raw.. he’s a link to the Holistic Select range
http://www.holisticselect.com/recipes.aspx?pet=dog#category5

[Bobby dog]

Yessssss you should be excited, silly question! I am excited to be driving by one, can’t wait to shop there. Remember Akari said they have the best popcorn ever? lol I hear they also have high quality meat that comes close to being organically raised (but it is not certified), my neighbor (the caterer) picks up TJ’s coconut water for me. A case at a time, I love it and it is the best price I have come across for pure coco water with only vitamin C added. For pet food I believe their dog kibble is Bench & Field and I have read fairly good reviews on TJ’s canned cat food.

[Bobby dog]

Hey Akari:
Are you looking for a new printer? Or want me to check on generic cartridges for your HP? Or both? I had an old HP printer that I tried generic cartridges on and they didn’t work with it. I don’t know if it makes a difference, but the HP cartridges were the powder type ink as opposed to my Canon’s being the liquid ink cartridges.

Just an FYI, I don’t know if you read one of my last posts reviewing some new foods I tried. Science Diet was on sale at the pet shop (this should make you proud for sharing your coupon tips!) so I looked on their site for coupons which they did offer and still do:
http://www.hillspet.com/products/products-special-offers.html
Coupons and sales right? lol I looked at the SD canned and there were very few that fell into my cat food criteria; the regular GF Science Diet canned being one of them. There’s also a few Ideal Balance that were okay, but they weren’t on sale and there were no coupons offered. The GF’s are pate’ styles even though the picture looks like it’s minced. Maybe check the regular SD recipes also to see if they are what you are looking for in canned food.

[Vanessa B]

Our 5 month old french bulldog has brought so much life and laughter into our home, and we all love him to pieces!! However, his gas is so horribly bad – room clearing bad… Wake you up from REM sleep bad… Melt this skin off your face bad!! We feed him Blue Buffalo Wilderness 100% grain free for puppies (at the recommendation of our local pet store Manager). I spoke to the lady I bought him from last night, and she told me that what I am feeding him has too much protein for him. She also said he needs to be on adult food. She suggested I transition Rocco (our Frenchie) to Royal Canin Bulldog 24. Here is some background: Rocco has ONLY eaten the dogfood I mentioned earlier… No table scraps, no people food. I have never tried yogurt in his food – I understand how yogurt helps our human guts but the fear of not knowing 100% what it may or may not do to Rocco’s belly makes me hesitant.

I will certainly take her advice into consideration, but I was hoping to possibly obtain further advice/knowledge/suggestions from this online community! Thank you all in advance for taking time to read my post! Any and all thoughts are welcomed! We are at the last little bit of his Blue Buffalo Wilderness bag of food so this is a good time to start transitioning him. I am looking forward to reading everyone’s thoughts!

***I am helping my husband with some outside work today so if you post a question for me just please know that I will respond to it but it might be a little while before I am able to log back into this site.

[Patty C]

Thank you, Cyndi & crazy4cats. I’m glad to learn about the 20% rule; I can calculate the 20% of what each dog gets and add that. I measure what I feed them every day for two main reasons: first, concerning the budget so that I know how many days before I must buy more, and second, to help keep their weight under control.
For a while I will probably start a few more threads so that I can get advice in making the correct changes; I’ve been doing the same low-budget thing for years, feeding all my beasts what has turned out to be not-so-good food, and it is difficult for me to make these changes when all choices are not equal.
Thanks again for your answers here; I hope to hear from you in my other questions.

[Akari_32]

I just finished my summer class. It was only a 10 week course.

I must have missed the added color the first time! I see it now. Derp lol Authority doesn’t look bad, but I already tuna Wellness in my rotation, so I don’t want any more fish than he’s already getting. Same deal with the Max Cat. I will run them both through the carb calculator though, and dig a little deeper into the ingredients (PetSmart has stopped putting the ingredients for ALL their foods online, and just has one flavor to represent each line and style), and see what I come up with. I’ll get on the lap top and do it, and report back. I need to start buying today, regardless of what I find. I’ve got to squeeze any new food in get him used to it ASAP or my room will be smelling gross for a while lol

I did have a little cheapy printer, one of those little $20 ones that came with ink and everything. We had for years and years and it finally died. My brought home the business printer, and we’ve always had problems with it. It’s supposed to be some fancy wifi printing cell phone thinger deal (we hook it up to the computer, though), and all it does is give us error messages that it doesn’t know how to function, has to align the cartridges every time you turn it on (and THAT takes like 10 minutes and the thing sounds like it’s going to explode or something)– it’s terrible. I have to go online and look up error message more often than not. I don’t know what mom did to fix it, but hopefully it’ll stay working lol Replacing the company printer is not my job lol

What brand do you have, Bobby Dog, and where are you getting these cheap cartridges?? We pay like $35 for a black one for this piece of crap printer. It does print a lot, though. …. When you can get it work….

I’m going to school to be a vet tech at the moment. Hopefully in the future I’ll go to be an actual vet. Just a money thing right now.

[Naturella]

Darren,

This thread here should help: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-47810

It has great info on large and giant breed puppy nutrition, as it is very important to balance the calcium and phosphorus ratio right. On page 17 or so there should be a document you can download with acceptable foods for large and giant breed puppies.

Good luck with the new pup! 🙂

[Akari_32]

So I’m wondering if this all isn’t stemming off of a sight issue? We were walking yesterday, and walked past a few signs that stand up like those plastic wet floor signs, and she got real serious and started hunting them (stalking, head down and ears forward). She’s not a stupid dog. She’s knows when something’s alive, or not, and she’s always stalked birds, squirrels, etc, but never random *things*. Then she did the same thing to a lamp post. That got me thinking, maybe her peeing actually is marking, because she can’t see as well as she’s used to? You know, leaving a scent trail? Trail markers? Lol She only peed once on our walk last night, but we walked where we usually walk with the exception of where she peed, which we don’t get that way very often (the other night we walked a completely different area than usual, and she peed a bunch of times). If it is a sight thing, then she wouldn’t have marked where we normally go because she already smells us there. I’ll keep watching her on our walks and go from there. Do a few test runs by going where we normally go, and by going somewhere new, and see what she does. I just barely have the money for a vet visit, but I don’t want to subject her to a car ride and poking and prodding, and spend the money if I don’t have to.

[Liz K]

Thank you all for your kind responses! It really helped me last night. I still didn’t get much sleep and woke up at 6:45 this morning to get her ready to take her to the vet, which turned out to be quite the ordeal, which I feel compelled to detail here as I learned a very valuable lesson today.

I usually take Izzie to a place called Three Trails where she has seen by the same doctor since she was a baby (she’ll always be MY baby). I called one of my good friends crying hysterically and she told me Izzie’s normal doctor wouldn’t be in as he is off on Thursdays (she takes her pups to the vet a LOT). She recommended that I take her to another place, we’ll just call it IAH for short, since they opened at 8 and I had to work today. We (my mom, Izzie, and I) ended up getting there shortly past 8 this morning and this place did not smell good. Not like dog, not like cat, just yuck. We sit in the waiting room and there is this beautiful, sweet, goofy big dog and she just feels compelled to talk…and talk…and talk. It wasn’t bothering us or anyone else. Dog’s bark. It’s what they do. A nurse came out and asked who was barking and said let’s just get this done and took her back immediately. I don’t know if she was annoyed or what, but that should have been my first clue. We get back into the room where the doctor doesn’t even pet her, doesn’t really ask questions or anything. I am in tears because I think that my baby has cancer. He then proceeds to tell me that all lumps have cancer in them. That doesn’t ring true, but it also scares me half to death. He sticks a huge needle in there twice (doesn’t look at anything under the microscope) and says it’s not bleeding and there is no hair in it, so it’s good. I mentioned the microchip and he said that wasn’t where they insert them. I asked what it could be and he gave a lot of random answers and recommended we cut it out. He said we could do it today or we could wait a bit, that it wasn’t urgent. My mom looked at me and said we’ll wait. I was a frazzled mess and so completely miffed that I left the vet with more questions that I had when I went in. We get to the car and my mom looks at me and says that there was no way in hell she was leaving our girl with him. We were so unbelievably upset that people actually send their kids to this guy, not to mention that our friend had recommended him. I decided to try to go to Three Trails and see if they had a walk in appointment available.

We get there and they didn’t have a walk in appointment available but after explaining to them what we had just gone through, they agreed to squeeze us in. We only waited about 45 minutes and then got back into the room. The nurse, whom Izzie generally loves, tried to stick the thermometer up her butt and Iz was none too pleased because she had just been poked on. The nurse was super understanding and tabled that for a bit. Dr. A comes in and we start explaining and she seemed a bit perplexed at the idea that I had just come from a vet and was now coming to see her. She seems to start to understand the issue after we explain more about what happened. The first thing she did was get to know Iz and then scan her microchip. Guess where the microchip was? In the middle of that lump. It had moved from the initial injection. She scanned it twice, which is two more times than the previous vet did. She starts to explain what she thinks it is and also adds that she had a lot of injections at her last appointment and it looked like an injection sight reaction. She said reactions to microchips are rare, but they do happen. She eased my fears as I was crying asking about cancer (google is a dangerous beast when you’re afraid). She explained every thing in detail, told us what we were going to do to get her better and laid out the next steps should it not work. We left with Benadryl, Prednisone, Pill Pockets and most importantly, peace of mind. I only spent 40.00 which I thought was a bargain considering I had just went to a “vet” who charged me 20.00 for nothing.

I keep getting told that Three Trails is more expensive. And you know what? Maybe they are. But isn’t it worth it to know that my baby is okay and have her be comfortable? And I don’t find them to be that much more expensive than any other place. She’s happier there, they re friendlier and they know her. I didn’t even have to tell Dr. A about the microchip. She just looked at her records and knew. The biggest lesson I learned today is if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. She’s been going to Three Trails for all of her life, and as long as I can help it, will go there for many years to come.

[Corinne M]

Hi Liz,
I just read your post – I’m so sorry, I know it is anxiety producing to find a lump on your dog!! Here’s what I know, hopefully it will make you feel better until you can get to the vet…I’ve had Golden Retrievers in the past who developed fatty tumors (lipomas) as they got older. That was back in the days before I was feeding homemade & raw. The vet would always say that its nothing to worry about, it was common for the breed and as long as it didn’t bother the dog leave it alone. Back then, that’s what I did – and I can honestly say that those dogs lived long happy lives & for the most part I don’t think the lipomas ever really bothered them and certainly didn’t interfere with their quality of life. Then about 4 years ago, I had 2 Golden Retriever puppies – and 1 of them developed a lump that was BIG. And he was young. My initial thought was, “well, he’s a Golden & they are prone to these things”. But it just felt really wrong to me in such a young dog – and sure enough, when the vet did a needle biopsy on him, the result was different, this time it was not fatty, but was blood filled – called a sarcoma. Turns out this dog had a really weak immune system, and the lump was right at the injection site where he had his latest vaccines. The good news is, we caught it early and it alerted me to a bigger issue – his immune system. That’s when I changed diet, vaccines, etc. When you go to the vet, you’ll know more – it may be just another fatty bump, but the location seems to indicate that maybe its related to the vaccine or the chip implant. His body may be responding to the foreign “stuff” that was injected, and the bump may resolve as his body recovers and assimilates it. But if it’s a reaction, that’s something to pay attention to – most dogs don’t get a reaction, so you may want to look into why yours did this time. Maybe it’s a fluke, or maybe there are ingredients in the vaccine that your dog doesn’t tolerate well. That was the case for my dog. But there’re some things that I’ve discovered along the way – first, not all dogs can tolerate the “one size fits all” vaccine protocol. And there are alternatives, such as titer testing, following a “minimal” protocol, and using only thimerosal-free vaccines when you do have to vaccine. I’ve had many friends tell me their vets “don’t do” titer testing or thimerosal-free… but there are labs that you can use, where you get the lab order from them, have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send the blood to them for titer testing. It’s no different from what your vet already does – they are just shipping to your lab of choice instead of to their usual lab. Same thing with the vaccine – you order it and have it sent to your vet in advance. The other thing is, the reaction my dog had gave me a “heads-up” to have his immune system checked. There’s a great organization called Hemopet (www.hemopet.org) that did a comprehensive immune system analysis on my dog & the director, Dr. Jean Dodds did a personal review for no additional cost – she sent me a report that explained the results in great detail and provided me with a list of supplements to correct his immune deficiency. She talked with me by phone & email over the next couple months while I got my dog stabilized at no additional cost. It completely changed my dogs health and was money well spent!. As an aside, the immune testing order form doesn’t come up on their website so you’ll have to call or email and ask them how to order it. Again, your vet draws the blood and sends it to their lab or to Cornell University…I forget which, but the order form has the shipping instructions on it.
Bottom line – the fact that you caught it so early means you can deal with it and get to them bottom of it. Taking charge over it will go a long way toward alleviating the stress and anxiety you are feeling right now. I promise!
Best to you & your pup!

[Lilmonster]

Never mind about my first and second questions everyone, they’ve been resolved!

FYI to any other newbies out there feeling lost or thinking about buying one of the recommended raw books, Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats just arrived in the mail today, and taking a quick flip through it I already feel so relieved. I was on the fence about buying it because I had already read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and still felt confused, so I was worried that getting another book with more information would just add to the overwhelmingness. Fortunately, it’s really well organized and gives menu plans that are easy to follow, as well as detailed information about essential and optimal vitamins and minerals. While Steve Brown’s book is also very informative, it wasn’t quite as straightforward, at least to me.

[Corinne M]

Something happened today that really moved me & I thought I would reach out to the dog community and see what happens. Tell me your thoughts – also, share any resources you know about, please.
So here’s the story: I make my own dog food but sometimes I rotate to a commercial (complete) or commercial supplements and I don’t like my ingredients to go to waste – so today, I realized I had enough egg shells on hand to make about two months’ worth of calcium supplement, which I don’t need right now – so I decided to look on Craigslist to see if anyone in my dog community might need it.
On Craigslist, I accidentally came upon a post that said “I NEED DOG FOOD” – it was a few days old, but I sent a reply asking if they had gotten what they need. Turns out, this lady is sort of having a hard time financially, is renting a room from a church & most of her needs are met except dog food. She has 2 weeks before any funds come in. I told her I could bring her a couple weeks of dog food, and I said she could just “pay it forward” for someone else’s pet someday. Well it turns out that she was involved in running a “death row dog rescue” for 20 years – the 2 dogs she has are, as she calls them, “former inmates”. It got me thinking – I know that there are so many people in this country just barely getting by, and I’ve heard from shelter workers that its not uncommon for pets to be surrendered by loving families who just can’t keep up with food costs. After a little research I discovered that “ Meals-on-Wheels” have begun to include pet food delivery, particularly to low income senior citizens because they found that many of their clients were sharing their meals with their pets out of desperation.
So it occurred to me to reach out to the food pantries in my community & the local “Meals on Wheels” to donate pet foods for them to distribute as needed. Maybe someone who reads this will do the same. ..I hope so.
Best, Corinne

[Liz W]

Thank you Cyndi for “bumping me up” as you can see if you follow this thread “USA Dog Treats” has given me some very good suggestions and validated what I’ve already been trying to do.
Thanks so much for the suggestions USA Dog Treats! I didn’t realize that even after I hydrate the Honest Kitchen and Kibble well, they could still swell more or cause bloating. Thought that by hydrating the HK the day before and keeping it in the fridge it would be fine. Something obviously was NOT fine and I too have wondered if I didn’t soak the kibble long enough or what. I don’t want to make the same mistake again.
I started back on the three meals a day NO Kibble and NO HK for now… I may have to adjust the amounts as he has some catching up to do but I don’t want to increase the amounts too fast. I think an ideal finishing weight to keep him a bit leaner would be between 110 and 114. That is what I’m going to shoot for. I am presently feeding him about 12 -13 oz morning and supper and a lunch of about 8-10oz. I will adjust the amounts as slowly as I see if he begins to put on weight.
I just introduced frozen fresh green tripe to each meal… so far only about an ounce or two in any one meal. He loves it and I was told it’s extremely easy to digest and will provide all needed enzymes to his stomach. Do you agree?
I haven’t introduced probiotics at this stage as I’m not sure what to try or when… don’t want to make too many changes too quick but he just came off of an antibiotic 12 injection. I’m not sure if that’s as hard on the stomach as taking it orally but I’m sure there is some adjusting that is going on in his whole system. What do you think of using Acidophilus & Bifidus that I keep on hand in the fridge for myself as a probiotic for him?
The meat source I have found here in Canada that I like, is called K9 Choice (www.k9choicefoods.com) They sell in bulk 40lbs which is a bit more affordable for some of what I feed but what I like most is that the balance is right (approx 80/10/10) fat % is also very good and the animals are all raised on their own farm land and are grazing, free roaming and living long lives before they are humanly slaughter in a very non-stress producing, fast, humane way… away from the other animals. I like it that all the animals get to be the way nature intended, not crammed into feedlots/pen or horrible conditions. Although they are not listed as “human” consumption, I have talked to the owner and he said he believes his meat products are far more “healthy” for man or dogs than what is being sold in grocery stores due to the condition and treatment of their animals and the way they are “processed”. I would really like to believe him.
I will look into Steve Browns pre-mix when we travel in the States. I’ve never seen it here in Canada but I will check the website and see if they deliver here. I know Honest Kitchen also makes a premix (same hydrating issue I guess) but they did tell me to rehydrate and then refrigerate and it would not swell in the stomach. It would work for me to just take the pre-mix when I travel and then just add hamburger or what ever kind of ground meat I could get. Something I didn’t think of, so thank you so much for that tip. If I do the premix and ground meat, or on sale roasts!… how much sardines would you feed a 110lb dog? I used to add sardines and then stopped and substituted fish oil tabs that I was taking but couldn’t tolerate. (lousy fishy taste after)
I have never exercised before or after eating… my dogs always have rest periods of an hour or more before or after even if we are only taking a gentle stroll.
Another thing I do think you are right about… he drank too much water after his meal the night he bloated. I am now a fanatic to remove all but a cup of water because he likes to kind of rinse his mouth after he eats. Then I put out about a 2 cup bowl and freshen it up in between meals. I do believe this was another contributing factor to that horrible event.
Yes, the vet did attach the stomach to the rib wall and explained that it should never flip and twist again. He did say bloat however was still a possibility. He also had his spleen ripped away so it had to be removed which I guess is another bad thing that doesn’t always happen. My poor boy.
I did give him a big HUG from you… you are a saint to take the time to help me and encourage me. All I want is for this boy to have a few more good years with us.
Thanks so much for all your help… much appreciated.
Liz and Mr. Lou!

[Lilmonster]

Hound Dog Mom –

Hi, after I read your above response I posted a question to you in a separate topic that I started with questions regarding switching my pup to raw, but realizing I probably should have just asked here since I’m not sure if you’ll see the other one. Copy & pasted below. Thanks!

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. **Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

[Karen D]

Hi everyone! My name is Karen and I have an almost 4 month old mini dachshund. I am brand new here and hope you can help me out!

He is eating Blue Buffalo with some cooked chicken breast now. I have 3 cats that have eaten raw for 5 years…2 years ago we moved them to Blueridge Beef. We have to keep him separated from them or he will race over there to gobble it up faster than you could believe LOL!

He starts in August and my question is how much should I feed him? He is almost 6 pounds now..projected to be 10-12 pounds according to what his parents weigh. I read 2.5% of that….so does that mean about 2.5 ounces per feeding (3x’s a day)?
Also, BRB only has 1 organ meat in it (liver). Do I need to add something else? This is the total break down of their puppy mix: ground beef, chicken, green tripe, beef heart, chicken bone and beef liver. I add a supplement to my cats’ food too (Kitty Bloom). Should I add the Dog Bloom to this?

Thanks in advance!!

[Cyndi]

Awww, well I’m so glad I inadvertently helped! If I can handle feeding raw, anyone can, lol! I did the same as you and read a whole lot of the posts in raw feeding forum before I asked questions. Thank god for google, because that’s how I found this site. The people here gave me the courage to finally say ‘Ok, I’m gonna do this’, although it did take a while.

Just keep asking questions. Sometimes they may not get answers, and other times you get a ton of help. Just depends on who sees your question. Good luck to you and welcome to DFA. Like I was told a long time ago, “It will be ok, you’re here now”! (wish I could remember who said that to me, but they were right! 🙂

[Akari_32]

I live in Florida, so it’s about a billion degrees outside this time of year. They have a whole insulated garage they can get into, and a large kiddie pool kept in the shade and cleaned out almost every day. Haley spends most of the day in the garage. The other dog has a nice hole dug out in the mud where he spends most of his time (naughty brat). A good portion of the yard is shaded in the afternoon from the house and fence, but mid-day sun does beat down pretty harshly. They tend to stay holed up until the evening, and who can blame them?

I will watch her for a few days. My card number was stolen, so I currently have a whole entire $5 to my name until it’s straitened out, though I do have money stashed away in case something medically urgent pops up (but I’d rather use my pay check and not my stash). My first thought was a UTI as well. Hopefully it’s something as simple as that, and nothing age related. I’m not ready for that, yet– she’s still my little baby we brought home 11 years ago!

[Dori]

Hi Lisa. So glad you went with the NV Instinct Raw and that he is keeping it down. Please give it some time while he adjusts to his new food and puts on the needed much needed weight and while his gut heals. Please keep me posted as to how your dog continues to do on the NV Raw. I’m glad you read my post when you tried the NV Dry that it had Turkey Meal in it. I’m hoping that his issues are mainly poultry and grain based intolerances and now he will begin to get well. : )

Also glad to read that you are using a scale. You might be tempted to feed him more than you should just cause he’s too thin, but don’t do that. You can feed him less than you normally would while he heals and eventually on your scale and on NV Feeding Guide you can put in the weight that you believe he should be and then figure it out from there. Remember, raw feeding is less than dry kibble. Just give him a little time to eat and keep food down. Again, please post and let me know how he’s doing.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Dori.

[Lilmonster]

Hi everyone!

Another lurker here eager and (almost) ready to make the switch to raw. Like other newbies, I have so much respect for everyone here for not only committing so much time and effort to their fur babies, but also taking the time to answer endless, potentially stupid questions from nervous dog moms like me! I would never even have known about raw diets, let alone been able to work up the nerve to take the plunge if it weren’t for this forum, so thanks to all of you!

Some background info: My fiancé and I just adopted our little one, Lily, two months ago from a rescue. She’s 41 lbs and the vet estimates her age at around 1, much younger than the rescue thought – her teeth were pretty yellow when we first got her but presumably because she wasn’t given anything to chew on to clean plaque, so they thought she was 2 yrs 8 months (!), which leads me to think she sadly may have been malnourished as a puppy since they were feeding her as an adult. As soon as we gave her bones and chew toys her teeth became pearly white. Anyway, we switched her to Fromm’s Surf and Turf kibble when we got her, but we noticed she started itching more and more. Took her to the vet to ask about the itchiness as well as a suspected UTI, but the diagnosis for the itching was understandably vague. We’re not sure if it’s a food allergy or environmental – she doesn’t have fleas, and we’re pretty sure it’s not a yeast issue. She doesn’t smell yeasty at all and I think the vet would have picked up on that. So after a recent bout of diarrhea due to too many high fat treats after a training session, I figured it would be a good time to begin the transition to raw after her system cleared up. I fasted her for a meal then fed her a mixture of white rice and pumpkin for two meals, which brought her poos back to normal, then began feeding her a 50-50 mix of ground turkey and pumpkin with the See Spot Live Longer mix added in. The vet is holistic and also trained in Chinese medicine, and she suggested that I switch to beef instead of turkey since chicken and turkey is considered “hot” and could be contributing to the itchiness, so yesterday I made the switch to ground beef and her poo was still fine this morning. But then I remembered reading somewhere (I think on preymodelraw) that it’s not recommended to start with beef, but I think for the time being I’ll stick with it just to avoid changing her diet too many times (unless anyone here would strongly advise against starting with beef?). At the moment, her daily food (divided into two meals) is 1 lb 90% lean ground beef + 2 tbsp SSLL + 1/2 tsp hempseed oil + 1 tsp coconut oil (just started adding it) + 1 human probiotic. She is also currently on a one week course of antibiotics for the urinary problem.

I have Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, ordered the Dr. Becker’s book, and have read through many of the threads on this forum but like other newbies I’m getting lost in all the information and feeling as overwhelmed as Cyndi was in the thread where she first started, lol. I’m thinking of sticking to the ground boneless meat with the See Spot Live Longer mix for a bit while I figure out all the supplements that are needed and place my meat orders. A few questions that I’d really appreciate if someone could help out with:

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

– This may be a bit much to ask, but if one of the veterans has the time to respond I would be so grateful. Could someone make a list of the essential vitamins/minerals (or alternatively, foods that will provide those vitamins and minerals) that MUST be added to a diet that consists of boneless meat in the AM and RMBs in the PM, and the approximate amounts? This is the part I’m feeling especially in over my head with. Vitamin D, vitamin E, fish oil, manganese, so many different things I’m seeing that they need, it’s hard to not feel kind of scared to do it all from scratch, which is my eventual goal. I think I’m having a hard time figuring out what is absolutely necessary vs. optional but ideal.

– So from what I’ve read so far it seems to be a good idea to start her on chicken backs and quarters, then begin alternating boneless meat every other meal. How many meals should I feed the backs and quarters before I begin incorporating boneless meals? Also, should I already be giving her supplements during this time, or should I wait until she adjusts then begin adding supplements. As for stuff like organ meats, heart, and green tripe, how long should I wait before beginning to incorporate those? I promise I have read the other threads, but I’ve seen a few different recommendations on timelines so I thought I’d pose the question again just so I can be clear about it.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time to answer my questions!