Concerned about giving milk thistle after Heartgard

Dog Food Advisor Forums Dog Supplements Concerned about giving milk thistle after Heartgard

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  • #35341 Report Abuse

    weezerweeks
    Member

    I have to give my yorkie his Heartgard the 22nd and was planning on giving him milk thistle the day after for a week but after reading about losul and her dogs heartworm problems and the discussion about milk thistle causing it not to be effective I don’t know what to do. Should I give it or not. Would love t hear from HDM.and anyone else. Thanks

    #35342 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    The concern seems to be that giving milk thistle will slow down the body’s mechanism for getting rid of ivermectin. The body clears out about half of the ivermectin in the first 24 hours and in the next 24 hours, it clears about half of what is left and so on until it’s gone. The recommendation I read was to wait 3 days before starting milk thistle, so the ivermectin had a chance to mostly clear out of the system. On a normal healthy dog, after 3 days, there would be less than 1/8 of a dose left in the system.

    #35343 Report Abuse

    weezerweeks
    Member

    So would u give the milk thistle after the 3rd day or just not give it? He had heartworms when I got him and I don’t want to go through that again!!

    #35346 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Hi weezer. Milk thistle had nothing to do at all, nada, with making my dog more susceptible to heartworms. I feel that other completely unrelated things I did/neglected to do, were to likely to blame.

    I myself take milk thistle sometimes, I always have some on hand, but I’ve actually rarely given it to my dog, and not with any consistency, but that’s mainly because I forget, otherwise I wouldn’t have been afraid to give him a low dose regimen after oral ivermectin, as long as there is a reasonable time lapse after administration, but never concurrently with, immediately after, or in high doses.

    I think you misunderstood. There’s only a very few drugs, where milk thistle is thought to decrease the efficacy, most of the drug interactions and most of the concerns are that milk thistle actually increase the efficacy of ( has the effect of increasing dosage) and slowing elimination times. It becomes even more of a concern with dogs might be dose sensitive, as those with the MDR-1 genetic defect.

    Weezer BTW, I know I probably seem over reactive and emotional some times, LOL. But I assure you that I am all male. 🙂

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 3 months ago by  losul.
    #35350 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Weezer, just to make myself clear, when I say “slowing elimination times” , I’m talking about the elimination times of the drug from the body (the time it takes before the drug is gone), and I’m NOT talking about slowing the elimination time of any HW larvae.

    #35375 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Yes, I wait until 3 days after I gave HWP and then give milk thistle for one week.

    #37198 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    After all of the recent conversation about heartworm and preventative, I decided to have my dogs tested having been of their preventative since October. It was probably too soon with it not being six months, but they were negative and I feel better.

    So, moving forward, I discussed preventative with my integrative vet and I decided on Sentinel. I had hoped to use Heartgard and Springtime Bug Off Garlic, but Sam seemed to react to the BOG and began developing a yeasty ear shortly after he started taking it, so I had to stop it and consider my alternatives.

    I’m trying to recall what the recommendation was for milk thistle after Milbemycin. I tried to find it, but couldn’t. Can anyone help me with this, please?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by  DogFoodie.
    #37200 Report Abuse

    weezerweeks
    Member

    I give my yorkie milk thistle 3 days after the Heartgard and I give it for a week. I think that’s what Patty recommended and boy is she smart so I know it’s okay!

    #37202 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    I believe the recommendation for milk thistle after Ivermectin differs quite a bit from the recommendation for milk thistle after Milbemycin, so I wanted to be certain.

    #37220 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    It does. It takes longer for Milbemycin to leave the system, and I have read 3 different recommendations. One said to wait 1 week, one said to wait 2 weeks, and one said not to use it at all. I think there was info posted in Losul’s thread about how long it takes the body to elminate Milbemycin. You want to wait 3 times longer than whatever the halflife is, so that there is no more than 1/8 of a dose in the body.

    #37241 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Ah ha gotcha Patty! Thank you so much! I thought I recalled the waiting period was longer, but couldn’t recall how long. I think with so much uncertainty, I’ll skip the milk whistle while I’m using Sentinel.

    #37247 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    According to this http://parasitipedia.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2454&Itemid=2722
    the half life is 1 -3 days, so I would wait about 9 days before using milk thistle.

    #37250 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    That’s helpful information. I just learned exactly how Lufenuron works as well. : ) Thanks very much.

    So you think it would be safe to give milk thistle for a week beginning at day nine? Would you do it if you were me?

    #37259 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Yeah, I would.

    #37264 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    OK, then, that works for me, too. They’ll get the HW preventative on the first of the month and milk thistle for a week starting on the tenth.

    I don’t think I would’ve ever been this vigilant if it weren’t for Losul sharing his experience with Turbo.

    Thanks Patty!

    #37282 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    It’s kind of funny that even though we don’t really know each other that well, we have bonded, and Losul’s experience has really hit close to home for us, all of us.

    #38017 Report Abuse

    DogFoodie
    Member

    Oh my gosh, it definitely has hit home for me. I hate what he and Turbo are going through, but appreciate immensely him sharing their experience with us.

    Patty, do you think that chlorella would carry that same cautions as milk thistle in this case?

    #38857 Report Abuse

    JASTECH
    Member

    You all must have a lot of mosquitoes where you live?

    #38866 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Hi Betsy

    I didn’t see this post until now. I really don’t know if chlorella would cause the same issues. I haven’t seen anything on how it works.

    Hi JASTECH

    We sure do. We even get them in the house all the time. And it is rarely cold enough here to kill them off over the winter, so we have them all year round.

    #38878 Report Abuse

    JASTECH
    Member

    theBCnut, Indoors I use the mosquito attractant lights that have a fan in the bottom. The squito heads towards the light, enters unit and the fan sucks it down into screened tray, squito can’t get out so fan dries them to a crunch. No toxins around for my dorgies, son or me. I have 3 units, they get millers and other buggies too.

    #38884 Report Abuse

    theBCnut
    Member

    Those things are great! I also have the propane powered outdoor ones. But mosquitos still bite before they get sucked into the things, so that is definitely not good heartworm prevention.

    #48085 Report Abuse

    debi s
    Member

    hi just wondering about milk thistle my dog was diagnosed with liver disease when he became yellow looking, i had no idea any symptoms or signs until the jaundice according to the internet he is in fail, when giving him milk thistle he became lethargic and more yellow, i stopped a couple days now and he is far more alert and less yellow, now i’m not sure if i should continue the milk thistle or if i should not, anyone know if its a normal process to act and look more sick while on the milk thistle or perhaps he is allergic ?? i’m so confused and heart broken he is like my child i do not want to lose him but i do not want to see him suffer either, is he pretty much done for while in fail? not sure where else to turn..
    thanks so much for any feed back

    #48109 Report Abuse

    losul
    Member

    Aw debi, it’s just these type of situations that is so heartbreaking, and especially knowing that I can’t really be of much help. I can’t imagine how bad you must feel and especially to be hit suddenly with it. Under these circumstances, it’s hard and awkward for me to try and touch on the subject, but I will try in some small way.

    This just goes way beyond any advice I could give you, I couldn’t begin to tell you, about prognosis, and whether it’s an end stage thing. I think if possible, you should work with a good vet, and preferably a holistic/integrative vet that also has an understanding of these things, like milk thistle,to make good decisions. There’s just so many factors involved, such as the cause of liver failure, i.e. disease, leptospirosis or other baterial/viral infections, acute or chronic, poisoning by things like aflatoxin, mycotoxins, poisonous mushrooms, degree of damage, degree of discomfort to your dog, medications being given, cancer etc.

    Ordinarily, the liver has a very remarkable ability to regenerate damaged cells, if there is still enough of it healthy, and it’s not overwhelmed. Unfortunately symptons of disease/faiure, don’t often show up until much of it’s capacity has already been damaged.

    So much is still unknown about the mechanism’s of action from the compounds, most notably silymarin, in milk thistle . I have some rudimentary knowledge, the little that was passed down to me, and some that I have researched, but I really don’t know anywhere near enough. It’s said to be a potent antioxidant and has anti-carcinogenic properties. It’s said to to help liver cells regenerate, protect them from damage, reduces iron in the liver which can contribute to damage, etc. There is evidence that it inhibits certain enzymes in the liver, including some involved in metabolizing certain medications. In the case of some acute poisonings, and if milk thistle is given soon enough, it could partly be the inhibition of some these same enzymes that prevents the liver from metabolizing those hepatotoxins and harming the liver? (I don’t really know that’s just speculation on my part). Why it apparently worsened the jaundice and lethargy in your dogs case, I could really only speculate as to that also.

    Oh God, I wish I could be of more help. I’m so sorry. My thoughts and best wishes are with you.

    #48291 Report Abuse

    debi s
    Member

    ty Losul i appreciate it..Titan is doing better, still somewhat yellow but nothing like he was..

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