[Macro M]

If you have been fishing in Fisch long enough, you already know that not all legendary fish are created equal. The Cryoshock Serpent is one of those creatures that tests your patience, your setup, and your map knowledge all at once. It is elusive, dangerous, and absolutely worth the effort. This guide breaks down all Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch, how to reach them, and how to catch this icy monster efficiently.

Before we go deep, quick side note for newer players or anyone short on gear. Some players use PVPBank to buy Fisch items when they want to skip early grind and focus on rare catches like the Cryoshock Serpent. You only need solid preparation once you are hunting this beast seriously.

What Is the Cryoshock Serpent in Fisch

The Cryoshock Serpent is a high-tier icy fish introduced during winter themed updates. It is known for:

Extreme strength during reeling

Sudden stamina drain effects

Cold based shock pulses while hooked

Because of this, knowing Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch matters just as much as having the right rod. Showing up unprepared usually ends in a broken line and wasted time.

When Cryoshock Serpents Spawn

Timing matters. Cryoshock Serpents do not spawn randomly at all hours.

Best spawn conditions include:

Winter or snow based weather

Cold Snap or Frost style events

Night cycles have slightly higher spawn rates

Northern and icy biomes only

If the water looks frozen or surrounded by snow, you are probably in the right zone.

All Cryoshock Serpent Locations in Fisch

Below are the confirmed and reliable locations where Cryoshock Serpents can spawn. These spots have been tested across multiple event cycles.

1. Glacial Trench

The Glacial Trench is the most consistent Cryoshock Serpent location in Fisch.

Why it works:

Deep icy waters

High legendary spawn table

Less competition from lower-tier fish

Veteran tip: Fish slightly off-center of the trench. The Serpent tends to spawn away from common fishing clusters.

2. Frozen Abyss Lake

This lake looks calm, but it is deceptive.

Key features:

Thick ice edges

Sudden depth drops

Lower overall spawns but higher Serpent chance per bite

If you are patient, this is one of the safest places to farm Cryoshock Serpents without interruption.

3. Northstar Ice Shelf

This area is risky but rewarding.

What makes it special:

High difficulty zone

Faster Serpent bite rate

Strong environmental cold effects

Bring a high durability rod. Losing focus here costs you fish fast.

4. Frostfall Cavern Pool

Hidden locations often hide the best loot, and the Frostfall Cavern Pool proves it.

Why it matters:

Smaller fishing pool means less RNG

Faster hook confirmations

Ideal for solo players

The downside is accessibility. You need to know the cave routes well or you will waste time just getting there.

Best Rods for Cryoshock Serpent

Catching the Serpent is not about luck. It is about control.

Recommended rod traits:

High tension resistance

Strong stamina drain mitigation

Stable reeling speed

Avoid lightweight or speed-focused rods. Cryoshock Serpents punish aggressive reeling more than any other fish in Fisch.

Best Bait to Use

While the Cryoshock Serpent can bite without bait, your odds increase significantly with the right setup.

Best bait options:

Frost Lure

Glacial Worm

Frozen Minnow

Do not waste generic bait here. This fish deserves premium preparation.

Veteran Reeling Strategy

Here is where most players fail.

When hooked:

Do not fight immediately

Let the Serpent drain some stamina first

Reel in controlled bursts

Pause when shock pulses hit

Think of it like a long boss fight, not a quick catch.

Common Mistakes to Avoid

Even experienced players mess this up.

Avoid these mistakes:

Fishing outside winter conditions

Using speed-focused rods

Ignoring stamina warnings

Over-reeling during shock phases

One bad decision can cost a ten-minute setup.

Is Cryoshock Serpent Worth Farming

Absolutely.

Reasons to farm it:

High sell value

Required for certain winter quests

Prestige catches boost account reputation

Flex value in multiplayer hubs

If you are chasing mastery in Fisch, this fish is not optional.

Final Thoughts

Learning all Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch is the difference between endless frustration and consistent success. Once you understand spawn conditions, choose the right zones, and respect the mechanics, this icy serpent becomes manageable.

Like most legendary catches in Fisch, preparation beats raw grind every time. Set your rod correctly, fish smart, and let patience do the heavy lifting. When that Cryoshock Serpent finally surfaces, you will know the effort was worth it.

[Macro M]

The Arc Raiders Flickering Flames Event is the heart of the Cold Snap update, and if you have been running raids lately, you already know winter hit the Rust Belt hard. This event mixes classic Arc Raiders gameplay with limited-time rewards, community objectives, and one of the most generous cosmetic tracks the game has seen so far. If you want to unlock everything without wasting time, this guide breaks it all down from a veteran player’s perspective.

Before we dive in, a quick note for newer Raiders. If you are short on currency or want to gear up faster for tougher runs, some players choose SSEGold to buy Arc Raiders coins and smooth out early progression. It is not required, but it can save time if you are juggling limited play sessions.

What Is the Flickering Flames Event

The Flickering Flames Event is a seasonal progression system tied to the Cold Snap update. It runs alongside normal raids and rewards players simply for playing the game. You earn Merit by gaining XP during raids, and that Merit unlocks rewards across 25 tiers.

This event also includes a community project, called the Candleberry Project, where players donate items to advance global stages. Completing both the reward track and the project is how you get the full Flickering Flames experience.

How the Cold Snap Weather Works

Cold Snap is more than visual flair. Snowstorms actively damage your Raider if you stay outside too long. You will notice your character shivering and slowly freezing. To avoid damage, you must move between proper shelters.

Not every building provides warmth. If your Raider is still shivering, you are not safe yet. Learning which structures protect you is part of mastering Cold Snap raids, and staying alive longer means more XP and more Merit.

How to Earn Merit Fast

Merit is the backbone of the Arc Raiders Flickering Flames Event. You earn it automatically by playing the game.

Key Merit sources include:

Looting valuable items

Defeating ARCs

Winning fights against hostile Raiders

Completing raid objectives

Contributing materials to the community project

Every 1,000 XP earned equals 10 Merit. Rewards unlock every 600 Merit, all the way up to 15,000 Merit for the final tier. The good news is you do not need to grind obsessively. If you play consistently, the Merit stacks up naturally.

Flickering Flames Rewards Overview

The Flickering Flames reward track includes outfits, cosmetics, currencies, and event materials. Here is a simplified look at what you are working toward.

Reward Type Examples
Outfits Hi Tech Hiker set and variants
Cosmetics Face styles, outfit colors, emotes
Currency Raider Tokens
Event Items Candleberries
Tool Skin Space Wrench

The Space Wrench at the final tier is a standout cosmetic and a strong motivation to finish the track.

Candleberries Explained

Candleberries are a limited-time event material introduced with Cold Snap. You need them both for the reward track and the community project.

You can find Candleberries in several ways:

Harvesting red berry bushes during snowstorms

Opening Raider Caches in Cold Snap zones

Looting baskets in nature-focused areas

Unlocking Candleberries directly from the reward track

You will need a large amount if you plan to finish the entire project, but the reward track itself supplies a big chunk, reducing the grind.

Flickering Flames Community Project Guide

The Candleberry Project is a multi-stage community objective. Players donate items permanently, so choose carefully. The required items are common materials you probably ignored before this update, which makes inventory management suddenly matter.

Below is a clean overview of the stages.

Stage Key Requirements
Stage 1 Candleberries, Plastic Parts, Durable Cloth
Stage 2 Candle Holders, Light Bulbs, Industrial Battery
Stage 3 Film Reels, Duct Tape, Grenades
Stage 4 Coffee Pots, Fireball Burners, Water Filters
Stage 5 Mushrooms, Frying Pans, Music Albums

Completing the final stage rewards everyone with a Snowglobe backpack charm and several powerful raid items.

Best Places to Farm Candleberries

From experience, certain maps are far better than others during Cold Snap.

Top farming spots include:

Hydroponic Dome Complex on Dam Battlegrounds

Marano Park in Buried City

Forested areas on Spaceport

Stick to routes with multiple berry bushes and Raider Caches. Avoid long open snowfields unless you know shelter locations well.

Veteran Tips to Finish the Event Efficiently

If you want to clear the Arc Raiders Flickering Flames Event without burning out, here is what works:

Play smart, not reckless. Staying alive earns more XP.

Prioritize Cold Snap maps for Candleberries.

Donate project items only when you have backups.

Do not stress about Merit numbers. They add up faster than you think.

Focus on fun runs instead of grinding one spot endlessly.

Final Thoughts

The Arc Raiders Flickering Flames Event is one of the strongest seasonal updates the game has had. It rewards steady play, encourages exploration, and finally gives purpose to many overlooked materials. Whether you are here for the cosmetics, the challenge, or just the winter vibes, this event respects your time.

If you log in regularly, manage your resources wisely, and keep pushing raids during Cold Snap, you will unlock everything before the event ends. That is the beauty of Flickering Flames. Just play the game, and the rewards follow.

[Byrocwvoin wvoin]

Welcome to the world of Old School RuneScape (OSRS), a game where nostalgia and innovation blend to create a rich gaming experience. If you’re a fresh recruit to this evergreen MMORPG, you’ll quickly discover that the freedom to explore, craft, fight, and interact is at the core of its appeal. This strategy guide aims to equip you with foundational knowledge, effective pathways, and key tips to navigate your early adventure in Gielinor on OSRS gold.

Getting Started: Account and Client Setup
First things first—create a Jagex account. This account allows you to manage multiple characters across all platforms (PC, Mac, iOS, and Android). If you played RuneScape in its earlier days and remember your old login, you can still use it, although you’ll start fresh at level three.

Download the Client
Once your account is set up, download the OSRS client. For beginners, the RuneLite client is highly recommended. It offers valuable plugins like Quest Helper, which simplifies the learning curve and enhances your gameplay experience on cheap OSRS gold.

Tutorial Island: Your First Steps
Your journey begins on Tutorial Island, where you will learn essential controls, game mechanics, and combat basics. Master the controls—tile-based, point-and-click movement—and familiarize yourself with the various combat styles: Melee, Ranged, and Magic. Knowing these will help you adapt to different challenges ahead.

Pathways to Early Game Success
In OSRS, there is no strict progression path—freedom is key! Nevertheless, there are effective strategies to level up and earn your first profit.

Combat Training
Combat is vital in OSRS and can be efficiently trained through various methods:

Free-to-Play Training Spots:

Cows: Found near Lumbridge, they offer valuable hides and meat.
Frogs in Lumbridge Swamp: Require level 13 combat skills and yield decent experience.
Flesh Crawlers in the Stronghold of Security: Aggressive, low-effort training.
Quests for Combat Experience:

The Waterfall Quest is a must-do as it boosts your Attack and Strength levels to 30 without any prior requirements. Seek out other low-level quests that provide combat experience.
Money-Making Methods
To thrive, early cash flow is beneficial:

Herb Runs: Completing herb runs can be a lucrative venture, requiring minimal high-level skills initially.
Thieving: Stealing from stalls or specific NPCs can net significant early-game currency.
Skills Overview
OSRS features a plethora of skills, and understanding their benefits is essential:

Attack: Improves your accuracy and ability to wield better weapons.
Strength: Increases your damage output but doesn’t affect accuracy.
Defense: Reduces damage taken from enemies.
Range & Magic: Unlocks better weapons and spells, key for combat versatility.
Prayer: Essential for activation of powerful prayer abilities during battle scenarios.
Early Questing: Unlocking Essential Skills
Engaging in quests is crucial for unlocking skills and content:

Aim to complete quests like Rune Mysteries (for RuneCrafting) and Druidic Ritual (for Herblore).
Consider following an optimal quest order guide to streamline your experience progression and maximize early gains.
Exploring the Mid Game
After establishing yourself, you will transition to the mid-game. This phase involves questing for untradeable rewards, engaging in stronger boss fights, and delving into new skills.

Goals and Focus Areas:
Gear Up: Aim for gear upgrades through quests and combat.
Pursue Slayer: This skill unlocks higher-level monsters that often yield valuable rewards.
Embrace the Endgame
Once you reach the higher combat levels, you’ll be ready for endgame content like raids and elite achievements.

Key Endgame Activities:
Raids: A team-based activity that tests your individual skills and teamwork.
High-Level Bossing: Tackle challenging bosses that require advanced game mechanics mastery.
Conclusion: A Journey of Choices
OSRS is a vast and ever-evolving game experience, with countless choices to provide freedom in how you develop your character. From questing and combat to skill mastery and money-making endeavors, your journey is your own to shape.

As you embark on this adventure, consider taking advantage of community resources such as YouTube guides and the OSRS wiki. Remember to set personal goals, whether that’s achieving level 99 in a specific skill or defeating a challenging boss. Every achievement, big or small, adds to your unique story in the world of Gielinor.

If you have questions as you venture forth, don’t hesitate to seek help in the community or follow up with experienced players. Enjoy your time in Old School RuneScape, and may your journey be filled with discovery and fun!
RSGoldFast provides a simple and affordable way to buy OSRS Gold and RS3 Gold

[Susan Sran]

I’m writing this review so others don’t get taken advantage of the way I did. I emailed the business requesting to cancel my order before it shipped and received confirmation that my email had been read. Despite that, they still went ahead and shipped the food anyway — then told me there are no returns or refunds.

It took two days for them to even respond, which is unacceptable when dealing with time-sensitive products like food. This kind of behavior feels dishonest and manipulative — purposely delaying communication so they can say it’s too late to cancel.

I would not recommend this business to anyone and hope others see this before placing an order.

[Ashley Morrison]

RUN RUN RUN

This woman is crazy. My experience with her was identical to everyone else’s here.

Her messages make no sense half the time, and she blames her poor communication skills on anything and everything. My dogs kidney values have been elevated since I’ve been using Cat’s recipe, and I cannot confirm or not that the food is the cause. Cat told me she can’t read bloodwork, and when I fired her for a board certified nutritionist, she claimed she can obviously read bloodwork and tailor the recipe to my dog’s needs.

When I asked for an updated nutritional analysis as we made some changes from rice to quinoa, her reply was “I’m surprised your board certified nutritionist can’t just do this.” And then told me she can for $50. I asked for a breakdown of how she used the 5 hours I paid for which was supposed to be for 2 recipes and 1 herbal tincture. She had developed for us, a single recipe. She claimed the rest of the time was spent emailing me.

Her attitude is atrocious, her customer service skills are non existent, and I would never buy another service from her again.

[Randy H]

Hi all. Sorry, this is a bit long, but I’m posting in this sub-forum because I’m not sure where else to post, and I would like everyone’s opinion on how I should address this.

The short version. Who should I contact if a DFA reviewed dog food indicates an issue with an ingredient, the manufacturer’s page also shows that ingredient, but the linked Chewy product page does not show that ingredient nor showing the correct ingredient list? Should I contact DFA because they have paid links to the sales website? Chewy because they should be responsible for accurate listings? Or the manufacturer? Or am I thinking to hard about this and should move on?

The longer version? I read the DFA review of Jinx Grain Free Canned Pate Dog Food <https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/jinx-grain-free-pate-canned/&gt; and noted that they downgraded the score of all recipes due to one of the recipes containing menadione, which according to DFA is a controversial form of vitamin K. I am interested in the Jinx pate canned food to add to my dog’s kibble due to cost, being a pate and the decent review of two of the recipes, but since the review was not specific about which recipe had the offending vitamin, though the grain-free salmon pate had the lowest score, I decided to follow the review provided link to the Chewy product page and look at the ingredients list of each of the Jinx chopped/pate canned recipes. None of the Chewy provided ingredients lists for the 3 recipes showed vitamin K or menadione in any form, so I decided to look at the Jinx website and sure enough the grain-free salmon pate ingredient list contained menadione sodium bisulfite complex. The other major issue to me is that none of the Chewy ingredients lists for the 3 Jinx recipes were accurate when comparing to the Jinx website. This would seem to be a huge problem.

Thanks for everyone’s input.

[Olivia Harris]

Understanding dog ratings and behavior can be a fun and rewarding experience for pet owners. If you want to delve deeper into this topic, it is recommended that you read the essay “Our Pets – Dog and Cats” on Allessay.org. This essay discusses various aspects of owning pets, including dogs and cats. You can read it here

[A. Hoff]

Hello,

I have two siblings, altered female & male just turned 11. About a year or so ago I started realizing ‘wow they’re senior dogs I can’t believe that statistics say I likely have only a few years left’ and so I started trying to modify their diet to make it more healthful as I really would love for them to be around for way longer than average. We know their mom was a border collie. We believe their dad was likely a Lab mixed with something else my guess is Burmese Mtn. Dog but nobody knows. The female is 50 lbs & male is 60 lbs. The vet says they are basically at a good weight, he said just slightly chubby but nothing to be concerned about.. 6/10 where 5 is perfect.

For the longest time until they were about 9-10 years old my dog’s were fed the following divided among 2 meals (approx 7 am & 5 pm, I listed approx total daily intake)

1/2 cup kibble, Taste of Wild Pacific Stream (have used other brands/flavors like 4health/BlueBuff but have kept them on TOTW for proably at least 4-5 years and this one flavor for a while as they do well it seems) ~ 200 cal/day
1 can Blue Buffalo wet food (was using 4Health when they were real young but something happened and quality seemed to go down, there would be excessive fat and I switched)- alternate flavors mainly beef & chicken, salmon & chicken, turkey & chicken, and the ‘red meat dinner’ varieties but I’ve tried others like trout, etc. ~ 500 cal/day
1/2 – 1 egg ~ 35-70 cal/day
1/2 can unsalted green beans ~ 30 cal/day

Treats – would be a rotation of those “Milo’s chicken meatballs”, “Milo’s steak griller strips”, “Blue Buffalo baked biscuits (made w/ apple, bacon, etc. varieties), very rarely I would give them something lower quality like milkbones or pupperoni, etc. ~ 100 cal/day

Supplements – Cosequin/Dasuquin 1 tab per day since they were pups (had an older dog when they were pups they just all got one), PetHonesty 10-in-1 multivitamin & probiotic – 2 per day (they started getting this when they were about 3 or 4 because they would have somewhat frequent loose stools or incomplete digestion. It was weird they would take 2 poops on their morning walk, 1 would be perfect, the 2nd would come out 70% perfect and the last 30% would look like a slimy slug), I use “Missing Link” lightly for some extra fats and fiber. I started using this with a previous dog who would get itchy skin, it was recommended by the vet and seemed to do wonders for his coat so I have always sprinkled about 1/4 tsp on a meal at least 1x day.

Total ~900-1000 cal/day

What I started doing different..

I started feeding them 3x day. Same calories, I multiplied their meals by 2/3 and give them that around 7 am, 12:30 pm & 6 pm. I read it might be better for seniors and thought the 14-15 hours between their dinner and breakfast was maybe too long for them to fast.

I started adding more fruits and veggies – I take some carrots & fresh spinach and put them in a food processor and mince it up finely and give them about 1 tbsp per meal.

I started giving them bone broth, I get it boiling and then bathe the kibble and veggies in it and once it has cooled and the kibble has absorbed it and softened I mix the rest in. I also will add a few blueberries and mash them up whenever I have them, or sometimes a strawberry and put it in there.

I reduced the amount of wet food they get from 1 can/day – 1/2 can per day and substituted some real fat/protein that I make for myself (unseasoned). Mostly I use chicken leg quarters, ground beef, eggs, and salmon. I look up all the nutrition information and weight it all out so the calories should be the same as well as the protein:fat ratio should be very similar to the wet food.

I stopped giving them Milo’s & Blue Buffalo and other types of store bought treats almost entirely. I buy sweet potatoes and cut them up into little bite sized pieces (weighing about 0.25 oz each) and air fry them until they are cooked and soft. I also give them pieces of apples, bananas, pineapple, strawberries, or egg for some variety. Sweet potatoes are about 50-60% of what they get treated with and everything else I just named rounds out the rest largely apple or banana.

Supplements is all the same.

I’m just wondering if you think all the changes I made are positive changes or is there anything to be concerned with? Any recommendations for further improvement? They are very healthy for 11, only Rx they are on is my girl is on proin for incontinence for about 1.5 year and it controls it well.. I would say I feel I have noticed some improvement in their coat and energy and overall health but I don’t know if it’s just in my head.

I told the vet about the changes and they seemed to think it sounded good/fine but I don’t know they really listened to me or thought about it, surely it’s better than feeding them straight ol roy kibble like half the dogs they see..

Some things I read that maybe made me think to come and ask:

– Vitamin A in excess levels can be a problem for dogs? Could my dogs be getting too much from the spinach, carrots, & 10-in-1 vitatmin/probiotic?

– I read some warnings about giving them fatty meats and causing pancreatitis.. I assume everything is good with giving them a little chicken w/ skin or ground beef because the protein:fat ratio is roughly the same as dog food and it’s only about 70-80 cal/meal, 3x per day replacing the 1/2 can of wet food I removed with roughly the same ratios.. am I overthinking it?

[murat G]

Hi everyone, I’m from Turkey, and my vet recently recommended a multivitamin called OneVet Multi Vitamin Paste for my dog. It’s specifically formulated to support overall health, including skin, coat, and immune system. I’ve been using it for about a month now, and I’ve already noticed an improvement in my dog’s energy levels and coat shine. Has anyone else here tried it or heard about it? I’d love to hear your thoughts

(You can check it out here if you’re interested: http://www.onevet.com.tr)

[Kenneth H. Rainey]

Based on feedback shared by others in this thread and my observations, it seems experiences with Cat Lane have been mixed. Some clients have praised her approach to tailoring recipes for specific canine dietary needs, while others have reported dissatisfaction, particularly with communication and follow-through.

One review specifically mentioned frustration over missed consultations, delays in communication, and unfulfilled promises related to creating a customized dietary plan. There were also concerns about professionalism, with some feeling their queries weren’t adequately addressed​.
If you’re considering working with her, it might be worth asking for clear expectations upfront regarding timelines and support. Alternatively, researching other specialists who offer similar services and have consistently positive reviews could be a safer option. Transparency and reliable support are key when managing your dog’s nutritional needs!

[Rebecca Tan]

OMG! I’m so thankful someone sent me this cos I thought I was the only one who had a TERRIBLE experience with her!!!

I also tried to find reviews on her but could not find and want to share my experience so that people stop giving her business. She is a terrible horrible person.

My dog has IBD and was diagnosed with Canine Kidney Disease (CKD) Stage 1 in 2022. Hence, I wanted to get a balanced homecooked recipe which would cater to her illnesses and yet still give her all the nutrients that she needed. My friends were the ones who recommended Cat Lane so I decided to give her a try.

Same as Samantha’s experience, at first, she was very nice and prompt. That changed quickly. On her website, she states that she doesn’t require you to be online at the same time as her (cos different countries, different timezones) but slowly, she blamed me for the slow progression of the formulation of the recipe being my fault as I wasn’t online at the same time with her. OK FINE. So we arranged for a day and time when we could be online together. 1st meeting, I waited and waited for her but she was absent. When I asked her why, she claimed ill health. OK FINE. We arrange for a 2nd meeting. 2nd meeting comes and goes, I waited and waited again for her but she was once again absent. This has already made me irate cos I am losing sleep just to wait up for her and I still have to go to work. This time, she claimed one of her pets passed away. OK FINE. We arrange for a 3rd meeting. 3rd meeting comes and goes again and guess who didn’t turn up? Absolutely fustrated now, I turn to her FB groups and questioned some of the group members if she always takes such a long time to reply them. WOW. Guess who showed up within minutes on FB to delete my comment and ban me from her FB groups? This time she claimed her cat passed away and that I was being horrible for questioning her absence and states that because of my “horrible” behaviour, she will end our business relationship and not give me my recipe, my recipe WHICH I PAID FOR. She also claimed that the money which I paid for is for her time.

This is what is written on her website: “You receive:

Five hours of my time devoted to whatever is required, usually recipes and adjustment; often, but not always, herbal support as well
A minimum of one therapeutic recipe, tailored to your dog’s nutrient requirements, as determined by the National Research Council’s Nutrient Requirements of Dogs (2006) but also geared to the specific needs of the condition(s) you are seeking help with. If your dog is able to tolerate a variety of foods, I endeavour to provide two – three recipes; this is usually possible but may not work for food intolerance and allergy, at least not in the early stages of dietary support.
A full, personalized herbal protocol to support your dog’s general wellbeing and address health challenges as indicated
General Dietary Guidelines containing Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and pointers on everything from cooking techniques, substitutions, individual foods and their nutrient profiles, managing the dietary transition, converting commonly used measurements, food storage and safety and much more
Follow up support up to a maximum of five hours, with affordable extensions if needed.”

Nowhere did I even receive FIVE HOURS OF HER TIME. Her emails to me are mostly 1-2 sentences and there are only about 20 or less emails. If you are telling me these emails equate to FIVE HOURS OF HER TIME, then I have no words to say. It takes me barely less than 2 minutes to write 2 sentences in an email.
Nowhere did I receive a recipe WHICH I PAID FOR.
Nowhere did I receive a herbal protocol WHICH I PAID FOR.

Also same as Samantha’s experience, Cat Lane comes across very offended in her email replies as if she has a God complex and everything she says is right, and we are all wrong. She was asking me to test out certain food items with my dog to see if my dog was allergic to them and they all unfortunately caused my dog to have allergies. I could sense through her emails, she was getting frustrated that my dog was allergic to so many food items. AS IF IT’S OUR FAULT?!?!?!

Even if her cat really died, which I doubt it, cos she has been using the “my pet passed away” excuse so many times, I’m sure she can fire off a quick email to let me know she couldn’t make it to the meeting right? But NO. She couldn’t. Yet she could IMMEDIATELY ban and delete my comment on FB on the very same day. That does not make any sense to me. How is this professional behaviour?!?!? If you cannot be professional about it, you have no business to call yourself a professional and run your own business. Also, it pisses me off to no end that she continues promoting her business and getting new customers when she does not even have time to handle her current customers. HOW IS THAT PROFESSIONAL?!?!?!?! If she’s really ill and struggling with her health, then she has no business getting new customers that she cannot handle.

I’m doing my very best to warn everybody about her. DO NOT LET THIS VILE PERSON CHEAT YOU OF YOUR MONEY.

[Paul]

My dog is sick with what is likely to be Cushing’s Disease, which is when a tumor grows against the pituitary gland, sending a signal to the adrenals to produce excess cortisol, a stress hormone, which causes a host of health issues over time. The first symptoms I noticed were increased thirst, urination, and hunger; she lost control of her bladder a couple times, and drinks and pees all day. I’ve been in and out of the vet since July and have spent over $2500 and still don’t have a firm diagnosis. I said from day one I suspected Cushing’s and the first vet told me “no way” because her bloodwork was normal. Well, sure enough after expensive blood, urine, and ultrasound testing, now they want to test for Cushing’s – another $500. The ultrasound showed her adrenals and liver were enlarged.

I’m a supplement fanatic and I take a lot for my own health and wellbeing. Now I want to put that knowledge to use with my dog, but have a few questions. If anyone here happens to have ANY insight (even if it’s only answering one of my questions), I’d greatly appreciate it.

1) I want to give her black seed oil. I know it can cause death in cancer cells and I think I read about it reducing tumors. I read the standard dose for a dog her size is a half teaspoon, but I would imagine it might vary depending on the thymoquinone content? Most black seed oils have low content. If I give her a black seed oil with 4-6% thymoquinone, should I adjust that at all, or will she benefit from higher concentrations of the compound? Would i be better off ordering a black seed oil that has 1-2% thymoquinone? I currently take a blend that is 10%, which is unusually high, but the averages tend to be 1-3%.

2) For turmeric curcumin… I read this actually helps to minimize / block the compound the brain releases that sends the signal to the adrenals to produce excess cortisol. do I need to buy a specific pet formula or could i literally open one of my human grade capsules and sprinkle it into her food? Is there any particular reason why I would need to give a pet formula or do they just sell it this way as a way to make extra money from people?

3) Same question for fish oil… I take a triple strength high EPA/DHA fish oil by a brand called Viva Naturals. One capsule contains 1250mg fish oil and of that, 1125 is omega 3’s (EPA/DHA). If I opened one capsule and poured it over her kibble, would that be OK, or should I be buying a pet-specific formulation? I’m already spending a fortune each month on my own supps, so wherever I’m able to “share” my supps with her, it would just be easier. I just purchased her Nordic Naturals Pet Formula but curious if I could just dissolve one of my capsules into her food.

4) I want to give her ashwagandha to help with the excess cortisol. This is an herb that lowers cortisol, and many humans use it to manage stress and anxiety. Again, same question as above — can I just give her one of my capsules I take or should I be looking for a special pet formula? I tried searching for a standalone ashwaganda formula for dogs and was unable to find one — it’s sold in a lot of immune blends, but I would rather have all the ingredients individually so I can precisely control dosages.

5) I’m giving her a pet specific formulation of broccoli sprout extract/sulforaphane called Avmaquin. No questions here really, other than to mention I’m providing it because I’ve read sulforaphane is anti-tumor and anti-cancer. So far, this and a pet-specific CBD formula by Lazarus Naturals are the only things I am giving her. I figured CBD might help with cortisol and inflammation.

I’m currently looking at the above mentioned supps (ashwagandha, turmeric, fish oil, black seed oil, sulforaphane, CBD) as well as COQ10 (ordered a pet formula, but again wondering if I can give her my human grade formula) and milk thistle.

Is there anything else you would recommend I look into for helping her? Any general advice or recommendations or things to consider here?

[jetski racer]

New member here but have been reading reviews since finding DFA in 2012. Have a new to me furbaby a month ago, my vet said mix breed, short haired, ~45lbs, 16 months old, adopted from a family who could no longer keep him (they reported adopting from shelter when he was 2 months and were told he is lab and rhodesian ridgeback mix). Just looking for some info on these commercially avail chews from tractor supply as linked https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/brand/4health/dog-dental-treats-chews

my previous 12y/o furbaby (RIP…damn cancer…, gosh i loved him) LOVED, went crazy for the minties brand i found a while back and have some left, but they seem to cause some gi issues with this new pup so i was considering the TSC ones. I can’t keep up with all the different names that are out there for the same ingredients, supplements etc. so hope to get a little help here. Also open to suggestions to other brands, treats, chews or maybe even some homemade stuff. I live near a small town, but it got a TSC a while back and i am a brick and mortar kinda shopper if i can be. thanks in advance

[Shirley VerStraete]

My Yorkshire Terrier was chewing one of these. I noticed he had chewed it to a small size. When I went to take it from him, he quickly reacted by swallowing it!! Since then his breathing now includes alot of wheezing, coughing, and sneezing. He sounds like he’s also got alot of phlegm. Called his regular vet who can’t get him scheduled for another 2 weeks!!! Thankfully he can still eat his kibble and I’ve not seen any problems with his eating or drinking water, or his bowels. We are on the cancellation list, , DON’T GIVE TO A SMALL DOG! Especially the breeds that have might trouble with a collapsed trachea. There is no warning on the package and the package says they are suitable for small 11-15 lb dogs. I never should have given it to him since I was already aware of the potential problem of rawhide chews, which I now understand these are made of.

[Sissy D.]

Hi! I am new but felt compelled to tell my story. I adopted a Chi a few years ago. And she needed many teeth removed as she was abused and never had a dental. Her vet moved on, and I went to another vet office. I paid for very expensive dentals under anesthesia. Yearly. I took her in for a pre-op this year and found out, the new vet does not perform x-rays. Please,please learn from me and ensure your vet is taking x-rays under anesthesia. Most of a dog’s problems lie below the gum line. The vet said her teeth were in great shape and they are white too. But I took her elsewhere. And they do x-rays. And she needed 8 teeth pulled. Most were completely dead roots under the gums even though the teeth looked awesome. She had an abscess under the gum and a resorptive lesion. Worse part, the canine roots became rotten and totally exposed which created a oral nasal fistula requiring gingival flap reconstruction because the teeth were dead and the infection say and spread. Don’t take it just from me – it is recommended to have x-rays by all vet associations. My dog has so many stitches and is still suffering and healing. She can’t even eat anything hard yet and we had to take toys away to avoid ripping the fistula graft. Please, get x-rays. Dogs mask their pain and will swallow food so you may think all is well. Small dogs specially lack enzymes to break down tarter. And if a tooth is pulled somehow with no x-ray the roots can be left causing lifetime pain. Please hear my story and I pray it can truly help someone somewhere. Please. Thank you.

[Carly H]

Hello I know this is a few years old but can you possibly update it? My opinion is it’s the food! Science diet is poison and it’s killing dogs and has been! Big time. All the foods your vet will recommend – same.
Stella and chewy was bought out by a Chinese company last year and they have to crap too! Science diet is owned by I believe Nestle ! As in the candy company ! Mars as in Mars bars also own a lot of pet food companies and now a ton of vet offices are owned by them as well. They have no business being in pet food and anything related !
More recently though a ton of pet food brands are making dogs sick and exactly how your dog was/is sick is how these dogs are , same symptoms to the t! My exes moms dog recently was on science diet i/d like your dog and almost died on it . Same symptoms ! I told her to stop feeding SD and pray it didn’t do too much damage and her dog is recovering!
It’s likely a pesticide from an ingredient that all these different dog food companies use and outsource from the same source ! These companies will use the same sources for certain things.
None of them are agreeing to recall even though the cases are in high numbers and dogs are still getting sick and dying daily. They don’t care about our dogs and only about money . Candy bar companies shouldn’t be making dog food but even so there are a ton of other companies not owned by them that are making dogs sick right now. Purina , SD and Royal Canin being the top ones.
Stella and Chewys used to a great food until they were bought out, Acana and Orijen were also sold and bought by Mars and went to crap and there are many more!
Please if you haven’t already stop feeding these foods and best to stop kibble all together most of them use very high heat to cook the pathogens from the 4D meat they use in their foods meat that’s from other same spieces animal that the foods made for , and they have been euthanized! The proof is in the fact that dogs foods were testing high levels of phenobarbital in it something they obviously don’t put in dog food unless they are putting euthanized dogs in it since that’s one of the meds used in vets offices to put dogs down! Sick and diseased cattle are being used in dog food and finally plain old road kill! So i get why they heat up the kibble so high to kill all that comes with using this kind of meat source! However the high heat may kill all the pathogens but it also kills any nutrients in the meat and yes this kind of horrible meat does have some !
Once they kill it all they gotta add it back using synthetic vitamin mixes which they are fining to cause cancer and speaking of cancer the carcinogens caused by cooking the kibble to the point of burning it gives your pet a good dose of cancer causing carcinogens !
Don’t use kibble it’s so and as is but right now with this mystery issues going on that’s these pet Food companies are sweeping under the rug you can’t take the risk!
You mentioned your dogs doesn’t tolerate raw meat? Could you try a gently cooked premade ? Or possibly a synthetic free raw premade as opposed to raw from the store ? Keep in mind the detoxing period that there is with raw but after typically is all good. If your dog isn’t tolerating raw meat maybe it’s that particular protein that’s an allergy or too rich . Try rabbit meat it’s good for allergic and sensitive dogs . If you must use a “kibble” try an alternative like Carna4 though it may be a bit rich for your dog especially if it has pancreatic issues but if not carna is not kibble and it’s made safer . I use partial raw and a freeze dried raw called Simple Food Project and they make combo proteins and single protein formulas and my dog loves it. It can be rehydrated with water, raw goats milk or broth or eaten dry with a continuous water source available .
I hope this finds you and your pup living your best lives ever! If this isn’t applicable to your situation any longer I apologize and hope someone else on here can use the info!
Xoxo

[Charles H]

We have a 3 year old GSD girl. We got her from a rescue about 18 months ago and I found (after some trial and error) that she likes a mixture of Merrick Grain Free balanced Bison, Beef & Sweet Potato dry food and a few TBSP of Merrick Back Country Grain free canned food. She has been eating this mixture for over a year now and she loved it. I mean she would hop around and spin in circles while I get it ready.And always just polish her bowl of food, lick the bowl clean and come back and beg for more.

Starting a 4 or 5 weeks ago, she started to be picky with her morning feeding. Some mornings she won’t touch it. Then in the evening feeding, she’s back to normal. But it seems to be occurring with greater frequency (up to twice this week).

Her stools are very normal. She is regularly tested for intestinal parasites (at least one annually, sometimes twice). Other than this she is very healthy, happy, playful and has energy and prey drive levels beyond belief.

I’m thinking of calling Merrick to see if there has been any recent changes in their formulas for these foods. Could it be she is bored with her food?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, suggestions, etc

[j D]

ATTENTION ALL – I encourage anyone who believes this item/company is a hazard to IN WRITING, reach out to any and all companies that sells the product/brand. Perhaps ALSO email or write the company itself directly. PUT THEM ON NOTICE. Perhaps the more people the better.

KEY – Include in your concern these TWO phrases:
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE and also
YOU ARE ON NOTICE.
And first word in the subject line, use the word URGENT to grab attention of the email receiver.

The two phrase are LEGAL terms that are often taken seriously by HQ’s and or should be, because they are meant to hold people to a certain standard in the legal world and thus getting an email or letter w/these words being used, SHOULD prompt any and all responsible stores, companies to actually address this concern and to do so in a timely manner or else be held liable if something bad happens.

Time is of the essence is essentially a legal term that encourages prompt attention, using that phrase shows a future judge that whomever is using the term is COMMUNICATING the need for promptness.

The phrase “on notice” essentially COMMUNICATES that whomever is receiving the concern is as of the date, AWARE and ALERTED of a concern and hence now anyone made aware of the concern and not taking appropriate action to mitigate the hazard, fix the hazard, can be held LEGALLY responsible, w/much more certainty than someone who claims in a legal battle that they were not aware and makes the claim that they had no idea that their product on their shelves was a hazard.

Having this all in writing and pointing out in the email/letter to them, that not only are they “on notice” but that the email/letter serves as clear and concise documentation that can and WILL be made available for any and every court case that results from this product, thus it would behoove any all store owners and the company selling this item to FIX the concern PROMPTLY or potentially lose big and lose swiftly.

As I recall it was Amy who had done all the great research, perhaps she could provide somewhere that people could send a copy of these emails/letters that they have sent to store owners and the main company, so that if there ever be a need, the proper authorities wont have to seek them out and potentially miss out on having them to use in court.

Worth noting, it is a common strategy for attorneys to defend their clients by telling judges their client had no idea they were doing anything wrong. it is then upon the claimant, that is to say the person/people who filed the lawsuit, to then move forward and PROVE that actually the company did indeed know they were doing something wrong.

Defendants attorneys do NOT offer up guilt, the attorneys job is to DEFEND their client, which in so many cases in so many courts, equates to NOT honesty and accountability but rather defendants are advised to deny, deny, deny, unless and until they are FORCED by a judge to provide specific documents. Until then, its a war of attrition, a game of deny, deny, deny, make the claimant do the work, provide the proof to PROVE the case of wrong doing. That said, a claimant will have no way of knowing that anyone has put the company or stores on notice unless at some point the judge orders the company or store to hand over whatever documents the claimants attorneys request. That means tho a good attorney will need to request to see any kind of letter, emails, etc, indication that the company (or store) was aware the product was a hazard. A good atty would also look into complaints filed about the company and this is where it would be helpful if Amy could provide somewhere that people can simply forward a copy of their concern emails TO as simply as possible so that they can be sitting somewhere meaningful on file as a record for any future atty to use easily to hold the company and stores accountable.

I almost purchased one of these “no hide” items recently. I was thrilled to discover these in the store. My first impression, I was disappointed and disgusted that there was no wrapper on them, but I minimized and dismissed my concern and was begrudgingly willing to try one despite no wrapper. As I was picking one out, suddenly a bug flew out of one and into another and I was so disgusted I opted NOT to get one after all because my concern at that point was that bug could be laying eggs inside of those, which could not only be ingested by my pet but also be released into my house and or that bug could be transmitting a disease that could harm my pet. When I saw on this post someone had a similar experience, of seeing I think it was called a “skin bug” it reassured me after reading Amy’s extensive research, that these are likely rawhides merely being marketed as no hide.

My trust in companies and stores has depleted more and more in recent years. WARNING, we really cant trust the hype. That “no hide” website was SO charming, so inviting and its just yet another example of how just like w/so much these days, politics, food, household items, just about everything , MARKETING, is designed and in place, to make things, people, products, SEEM, SO good, so trustworthy, MARKETING w/words, pictures, its all a big game, pull our strings, telling us what they think we want to hear, to manipulate and get us to buy their candidate, their product, support them in their endeavors, them gaining profits, gaining power, and we end up being negatively impacted as a result of their lies and or their carelessness. IMHO, so many of us have been wired to trust and believe that if its in a store, if its on TV, if they tell me what I want to hear, then it must be okay. Nope. it is upon each of us to SEEK OUT the facts from reliable sources ESEPECIALLY for upcoming elections and not just trust what we are being told and being sold in politics and on packaging, TV and social media, ads, etc. Facts ARE available as Amy discovered in this instance, people just have to be willing to do a little digging to seek out facts, to question and to push back when things do NOT seem or feel right or seem to good to be true.

For pets, when in doubt, I suggest check w/vets. These days I have multiple vets and I check w/several of them when I have a question, as they each have different opinions, experience and education, they tho are just one resource. I compare their answers, and go w/what seems logical and wise to me, I also rely largely on my own common sense to make decisions. I too tho am far too often too trusting. I am so thankful I saw that bug fly in and out of that “no hide” that day, cause that bug flipped my common sense “switch” back on after I dismissed my instinct about no wrapper being acceptable. For me, no wrapper was in no way acceptable for my pet and yet I was willing to trust the company’s decision to offer a treat w/no wrapper over my own instinct. We as a society are naive far too often in this way. Im “training” lol myself to NOT be so naive. That bug was yet another training lesson for me.

BTW I have seen comments here about HOW to give dogs rawhides… to me, common sense is that dogs are similar to toddlers, and thus it is my responsibility to keep mine safe in similar ways as a toddler when out and about, in the car, when feeding, around stairs, etc. It is my understanding that in toddler day care there is a rule that if something can fit through a toilet paper tube, then it can be a choking hazard for a toddler. That said, I literally sit w/my dogs when they have gotten rawhides in the past because they are each different in their chewing habits. One is a gulper, so I have to be especially careful w/him and have had to in the past, save him from choking on a rawhide that he was simply swallowing as is his instinct to do when it gets to a size he feels should be swallowed. I have learned from that terrifying experience. We as people learn as we go. So many of us don’t realize that each dog is different. Some just swallow, some chew, sometime habits change from day to day. One never knows when something bad will happen, so its upon us to make time and sit and WATCH them as they chew making sure that what they are chewing on can NOT be swallowed, can NOT be choked on because it is the dogs instinct TO SWALLOW, consume the treat in front of them. Same w/toys, my dogs gnwas off bits of toys and swallows those too I repeat its upon me to PAY ATTENTION, notice these things and adjust the toys he gets accordingly.

I have used rawhides as a tool NOT a treat. 10mins a day, I MAKE that time to sit and watch my dogs to ensure they have NO chance of swallowing the rawhide or whatever else they may be getting, same w/toys. We recently had a rawhide cause a gum issue, tear at the gumline because the rawhide was too rigid and that has caused a whole other set of issues so we have been off rawhides for a while and looking for another chewing option. I appreciate the Kong suggestions in these posts as this gives the dogs something to toss around, and slobber on but can be the tiny pieces of treats taht they cant choke on. Even w/that I will STILL WATCH as they play because one never knows if a problem may show up. All toys, treats pose a risk a hazard.

I personally NEVER by the Greenies, the brushless chewable type treats, that dogs can supposedly chew on for dental health because I don’t want my dogs swallowing the treat whole and choking on it or it causing an obstruction. My dogs arent obnoxious, they are simply seeing something yummy like that and their instinct is NOT to chew on it, but instead to just swallow that yummy thing, when I tried those, my dog chewed it maybe a few times then swallowed it basically whole and I then had to wonder and worry for days about that in his system. Not all of us know our dogs habits or what our dogs will do at any given moment so is best to stick w/something we know will NOT be a hazard. Knowing my dogs are sometimes gulpers, I have learned to now feed ONLY tiny treats that cant be choked on even if swallowed whole. I look for treats that if swallowed whole it will either disintegrate as it goes down w/the saliva breaking it up or it is so tiny (pea size) that swallowing it whole doesnt matter. They still get a treat but I get zero stress and scares in the process. I tho also take time to BRUSH my dogs teeth WEEKLY rather than rely on a treat to do that work for me.
Good luck to all!

[Jake J]

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[Gary A]

It’s been a while but I though that I would add to this. After two years of our little Field Spaniel suffering from from Acute Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis and over a year of food elimination diet trials, our vets finally ran him through an expensive battery of allergy tests. Our the vets had informed us up front that the expensive tests only had a 75% accuracy rate and allergy testing was not recommended for the diagnosis of food allergies; we were okay with that, we were getting desperate. Now, the tests showed us pretty conclusively that he had no allergies to natural unprocessed animal proteins ; however they cannot test for the highly over-processed proteins found in commercial dog food, too many processing methods. But what did come up was that he was deathly allergic to flax products, he scored over 500 on the allergen panel. He also scored over 300 for tomato products. Even allowing for the 75% accuracy rate, those two items were simply just too high to ignore.

We immediately sought out foods that contained no flax or tomato products, and it was surprisingly pretty difficult. We found a few, and immediately began him on a diet changeover routine. Within a week there were no more bloody raspberry jam stools, no more bloody vomiting, his little stomach calmed right down. Its now been almost a year that he’s been free of any severe gastroenteritis symptoms; he still gets the occasional upset stomach, but that seems to be mostly from eating grass.

I guess the biggest question I have out of all of this is if flax and tomato products are “so safe” for our pets, then why are the allergy testing companies actively testing for flax and tomato in their panels? We already know that not only is flax seed is a natural source of cyanide, but the touted rich plant based sources of omega 3 contain ALA, rather than EPA and DHA, and that ALA is not readily bioavailable in our dogs and cats. Also odd, I’ve recently read that Flaxseed Allergy is now considered an emerging allergen in humans.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Gary A.
• This reply was modified 2 years, 4 months ago by Gary A. Reason: grammatical

[Julie D]

My human patients with recurring pancreatitis are sometimes prescribed pancreatic enzymes (I have specifically seen Pancreaze used). Super type triglyceride control (which is essential to preventing pancreatitis- other things are as well) is also achieved by some human patients by using meds and diet. There’s actually a correlation between
stones and pancreatitis. You should pick your own doctor’s brain about this subject and what would be recommended if he/ she had a human with these problems. I’d also see if you can get in contact with a human dietian to see what they’d suggest. My dog has had recurring vomiting and calcium oxalate stones so I’m trying to figure out what diet is best for her. Your doctor may be able to access “UpToDate” and print the current recommendations. I look to human medicine a lot for Chloe because I’m a human icu nurse. I read these forums to get ideas or resource ideas. Vets seem to be overwhelmed with animals so doing the work of giving them research isn’t bad especially if it’s from a reputable site. Mayo clinic has great resources for certain things. I’d ask a doctor and a dietian for help and the worse they can do is turn you down. But when I talk about Chloe, my doctor friends start asking questions because they like to help sick people (and animals). I got advice about chickens from my doctor. Best of luck!! This is the site that talks about pancreatitis and stones- ps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8783332/

[Gena M]

I have a dog with EPI. we are currently managing it using pork enzyme powder sprinkled over his food. I want to find a better diet for his condition. Are there any dog foods that are designed specifically for this condition?

Also, I have read that including raw pancreas in their diet can take the place of the powder. Does anyone know if any of the raw food providers use this ingredient or any that will tailor make a recipe for individuals?

• This topic was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Gena M.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate your comment on Rescue Remedy. I have felt that it helps him after a seizure so I do hate to discontinue it now – especially after the cluster.

This shaking (without a full seizure) is definitely much more intense than a tremor. And completely out of his control. But it has become a little less intense since the first couple times it happened. The first couple times he would also pant for a minute or two after it stopped, but now he just takes a deep breath when it stops and then starts napping, but with subtle signs of discomfort.

When he has a full seizure, the progression every time is this: (1) he starts looking around like he hears something, for 3-5 seconds; (2) shakes violently for 3-5 seconds; (3) tonic phase of seizure where he goes rigid for 15 seconds or so; (4) clonic phase with paddling of all limbs and much foaming at the mouth, for about 1 minute. Afterwards he remains lying down, eyes wide open and looking scared to death, and pants REALLY heavily for 5 minutes or so.

The first couple shaking episodes (without a full seizure) I think it started with looking around first, but I’m not sure. Now, I don’t see him doing that, or if he is it is more subtle.

The lack of the appetite in the morning has come and gone in the last year, but has been pervasive for the last few weeks. Until a couple months before the seizures started he always had a good appetite. His appetite first started to wane when he was on Rimadyl for a few weeks, and the lack of appetite was most noticeable in the morning. Since then, there have been so many changes (food, supplements) that could have upset his stomach that it is hard to sort it all out. One thing that has been pretty consistent since the seizures started is that he is consuming more fat than he was previously, so I really have to wonder if he has developed digestion problems centered around that. I have cut back significantly on the fatty foods in the last few days, and stopped the MCT Oil. Yesterday he had no breakfast, and today a small one but less fatty than before. No shaking yesterday or today. But, two data points is far from conclusive. 🙁

On your CBD Oil pharmacokinetics question – I have not read much on that, but I do have a 2019 study (published in Animal) in my voluminous collection of seizure reading. They found “…time to maximal concentration (Tmax) of 1.4 h and 2 h, for dogs and cats, respectively” and “… half- elimination rates of approximately 4 h in dogs”

Back when I was giving him a full dose of CBD Oil, he got it in the morning typically about an hour before eating and in the evening right before eating. I had stopped the CBD completely on 1/20. He then had the first cluster of 3 seizures on 2/6 and the first shaking episode on 2/9. I restarted the CBD on 2/10, in the morning only, at a lower dose. None yesterday and today.

I’m not sure that I mentioned this before, but he has been on SAMe (800 mg/day) since the first high enzyme bloodwork. He gets that in the middle of the day.

I could go on and on, but will control myself. I imagine you do have other things to do. Thanks for taking the time to consider and comment. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for the CBD article link. The reason I did choose Joy Organics is because of their testing. They post 3rd party reports online by batch, and in addition to the Cannabinoid Profile, they also test for heavy metals, pesticides, mycotoxins, residual solvents, and others. What I use is a human product, and of course compute my own dosing. I can’t remember if Joy even makes a pet version. From the research I did before settling on Joy, I found that most of the companies who sold both said that their pet product was the same as one of their unflavored human products. But generally the testing was more complete for the human products.

Things seem to be moving in the right direction for my dog. No shaking events in the last 3 days and none so far today. I keep reminding myself not to let my guard down though. I reduced the CBD dose yesterday and today. If we get through today with no shaking I will probably go with no CBD tomorrow.
Good to know that ½ life information. If I can stop the CBD now then his bloodwork next week should be informative.
However, I had another thought/worry. Are you familiar with Bach Rescue Remedy? I learned of it from reading posts on the Canine Epilepsy Network forum, and also some articles. Seizure dog owners have found (they think anyway) that it helps dogs recover more quickly from a seizure and lessens the chance of a cluster seizure. So I smear a few drops on my dog’s gums right after a seizure, and for the first few days of the shaking events I did so during the shaking too. I wonder if this could have an impact on liver enzymes? I looked back at his seizures vs blood draws. First blood draw with elevated enzymes was 7 days after a seizure and the next blood draw (even higher enzymes) was 4 days after a seizure.
Here are the ingredients:
Rock Rose (Helianthemum nummularium)
Clematis (Clematis vitalba)
Impatiens (Impatiens glandulifera)
Cherry Plum (Prunus cerasifera)
Star of Bethlehem (Ornithogalum umbellatum)

If you care to speculate about the Bach, it would be great. He will almost certainly have another seizure before the next blood draw on 3/1. I probably should skip the Bach after that seizure, but that is really scary given the prospects of another cluster. Thanks. M&C

[aimee]

Hi M&C,

Your CBD dose was quite a bit higher than I assumed it would be. When I looked at the OTC options at my local store, as I recall a $100.00 bottle would have been enough to last 3 days at the 5 mg/kg/day dose. At the time, the prescription CBD was ~1200.00 a bottle. On a mg basis it was pretty comparable to the having to buy multiple OTC strength bottles.

As I understand it, CBD itself may cause a rise in ALP but an increase in ALT wouldn’t be expected, hard to know if it is related or not. Only way to know I think would be to discontinue and remeasure the blood levels.

Bile acids are produced from cholesterol, stored in the gallbladder, and shucked out into the intestines with gallbladder contraction, primarily in response to ingestion of food. They are reabsorbed in the ileum, the end portion of the small intestine. The blood flow from the intestines takes a tour through the liver and the liver picks out the bile acids and sticks them back into the gallbladder.

If the liver is not functioning well, the liver doesn’t do a good job picking the bile acids out of the blood, so the bile acids can be found circulating in the blood at higher than excepted levels. Bile acid levels in the blood can also be high when the blood flow to the liver is altered, like with a liver shunt. Gastric and Intestinal motility may also influence results. The bile acids have to be presented to the terminal intestine for absorption. Apparently, there can be day to day variation in test results due to this or other factors.

The test is usually done by measuring levels in the blood in a fasted state and again 2-3 hours after feeding, which is done to stimulate gall bladder contraction. If both pre and post eating samples are high, the problem is more likely one of liver function. If pre are normal and posts are high, it may be more likely to be a problem of blood flow. BUT these are very wide generalizations and dogs don’t read the books.

Apparently, there can be a lot of “grey” in interpreting the results. The specialist I took one of my dogs to said he rarely runs the test because the liver has a lot of functional reserve so local lesions that can increase liver enzyme levels in the blood may not alter test results at all and factors outside the liver can influence results. This could be why your vet recommended an ultrasound and not a bile acid test to further explore the liver enzyme increase.

On the other hand, if you are giving a dog something that is known to be able to alter liver function in some scenarios, doing repeated bile acids to monitor for change in function may be warranted. I believe an anti-seizure medication such as phenobarbital falls into that category.

Since so much about CBD use in dogs is unknown it makes sense perhaps to included bile acids in these initial studies to monitor for any toxic effects.

I’m not aware of any instance where MCT would increase liver enzymes.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Unfortunately, my dog is continuing to have the partial seizures nearly every morning. But, as disturbing as it is, at least he hasn’t had a full blown seizure in 9 days. I do worry that he could be having more partial seizures than I realize – like at night. I’m confident that I’m not missing any full seizures, but I could easily miss a partial.

I’m continuing to give him a smaller dose of CBD Oil in early in the morning, and also continuing Keppra 2x. I guess I will take it one day at a time as far as deciding when to completely stop the CBD.

Back when I was giving him only CBD Oil I had worked up slowly to 2.5 mg/kg/day CBDs (in 2 doses). From what I had read, the studies were typically using around 5 mg/kg/day, and the McGrath study on adverse effects used much higher doses of 10 and 20 mg/kg/day. I would have kept increasing the dose I was using if his liver enzymes hadn’t shot up. From what I could glean from studies it seems that most dogs had only a minimal rise in enzymes, if any, at the lower doses, yet a few dogs did have a significant rise.

You make a good point that although I think that I am using a quality brand (organic and aggressive third party testing, etc), it is possible that there is something unique about the oil I am using that caused the dramatic rise in enzymes. I just hope that his levels are coming down when the next bloodwork is done in early March.

I was just rereading the 2018 McGrath Report (A Report of Adverse Effects Associated With the Administration of Cannabidiol in Healthy Dogs) again and noticed a statement that made me want to have a better understanding of liver testing, and I thought you might be able to help me with that.
This was part of the discussion about a rise in ALP levels. “There was no evidence of short-term hepatotoxicity since fasting and postprandial bile acids remained normal for all the dogs throughout the study. However, the potential for long- term liver toxicity was not evaluated in this study.”
And then from an article by McGrath discussing her studies “Bile acids were monitored every two weeks and no changes were noted, suggesting the liver continued to function normally.”

My vet has never even brought up a bile acids test, and I now don’t understand that. I’ve actually been frustrated that she really didn’t seem all that concerned about what I considered to be dramatic increases in my dog’s ALT and ALP. Especially ALP, which is now at 6x the upper reference range value. So evidently the lab results as a whole she doesn’t find terribly troubling. The other liver-related results on the lab report (AST, GGT, and Bilirubin) were within range. Although, confusing to me, is that the Bilirubin Total was about mid-range, while the Unconjugated was at the very low end and the Conjugated at the very high end.

When we were discussing the last lab report my vet did say that I could have an ultrasound done, but it felt more like a response to my concern than a recommendation. It was at that point that I decided to discontinue the CBD and see if that causes the enzymes to come down. It seems to me that it would be prudent for the next blood test to include a bile acids test, instead of skipping that and jumping right to an ultrasound. I hate to even think this, but the ultrasound would be more of a money maker for her clinic . . .

If you care to comment on the usefulness of a bile acids test that would be great. You are so good at boiling information down so it is understandable. Thanks. M&C

[KelWolf]

Hi Renee
Hope you see this…
I feed Halshan as well.. only I stay away from Anything that is or turns into Sugar…Veggies & Fruits are high in Sugar causing Yeast overgrowth & they are not Designed to Process them anyways & it can cause numerous Health Issues..like Spinach is Oxidative Etc so have to be careful…leafy greens can help with Chlorophyll but only tiny amount…their Tripe they have has that added…Fruits & Veggies Good for Human Herbivores not Carnivores lol!!
I think Logically..if they don’t Hunt it I don’t Feed it😆& when they eat Prey the Prey has already Digested the plant matter & only alil may be absorbed like the Chlorophyll/Fiber cuz again Carnivores do not Process plant matter

You may want to do a Cleanse to free up possible Yeast Issues inside the Body you may not see right now…Coconut Oil & Probiotics Help…
Always Cleanse the Body before Transitioning cuz Yeast Overgrowth Barriers will not allow good Proteins & Nutrients to be Absorbed
The problem with Gently Cooked is that ANY Cooking Depletes vital Nutrients & Enzymes & Cooked meat basically becomes a Carbohydrate Filler (like All Kibble which is All Carbohydrate…Highly Heat Processed all Sugar No Nutritional Value) which turns into Sugar feeding Healthy Cells turning them into Cancerous Cells & again Yeast & Unhealthy Health Issues…that’s why Humans shouldn’t consume Meat..so I Always do Raw for my Pets….
I do the Ground Rabbit & Ground Chicken WITHOUT Veggies & add their Beef Organ Mix for extra Heart & Kidney Tripe & Chlorophyll Etc Benefits
& also use an Omega Salmon Oil..I Only use Lifeline Salmon Oil.. Trusted for 10 Years now!

Researching Kelp now even tho they wouldn’t hunt it lol but for alil for added nutrients

& ALWAYS feed Grass-fed Grass Finished NO Grains (especially for Tripe) Grains cause Bacterial Infection Irritation Inflammation Etc
I will also add Beef Meat with Fat (Boneless) to level out the Bone intake if too much Calcium & the Fat is good for them just not too much lol😆Halshan doesn’t have just that so I get it elsewhere as long as it is Grass-fed finished too…but everything else
That’s why I like Halshan

I believe “Furlys” a Pet Store in Orange County California sells Halshan & Ships Nationwide!!
Hopefully I spelled it correctly..just Google lol
Hope all this helps Here if ya need..Bless your Sweet FurBaby
🐾💛🐾

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. I came back to catch up on my reading. Thank you for addressing all of my questions. Your simplified lesson on fatty acids is great, and very helpful. I had done quite a bit of prior reading on the subject, but I think my eyes generally glossed over part way through articles because it does get so complex. I did of course read about the importance of the 6:3 ratio, but I had also decided it was best to keep the Omega 6 intake at a reasonable level so that a good ratio could be obtained without having to over-supplement with something like fish oil. I still tend to think that is a valid approach, but your lesson emphasizes to me that it is more important that the diet have plenty Omega 3s.

On the chicken-allergy-holistic-vet subject, I did quickly lose confidence in the holistic vet and discontinued that. There was no evidence pointing toward my dog being allergic to chicken, and in fact when I later had the IgE food allergy test done through another vet, he had no reaction to chicken. But, I know, IgE testing is a controversial subject, and I won’t digress. I came to suspect that this holistic vet pretty much gave every patient the same plan, regardless of what they were there for. Complete removal of chicken from the diet and take the liver support supplements and Chinese herbs that she sold. But, as bad as my experience with her was, it was not quite as bad as your holistic vet experience.

An update on my seizer. This morning I gave him a dose of CBD Oil, in addition to the Keppra in an attempt to break the pattern of daily partial seizures in the morning. It is noon now, and so far no seizure today. So if we can get through the rest of the day without one, that will be a relief. But, the goal is to stop the CBD and hope that the Keppra will kick in and help.
I do think now that the CBD Oil was probably helping to control his seizures, but I also acknowledge the elusiveness of seizures and that it may have been doing nothing except raising his liver enzymes. I was very careful in selecting a brand, and I think I was using one of the best brands out there, but it’s kind of like commercial dog food – you just never really know.
You asked about his age – he just turned 6. So he is right on the line that is typically used as a general guide for diagnosing the underlying cause. If this daily partial seizure routine continues I will probably consider an MRI.
Thanks for the kind words. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Sorry about the lack of replies from me, although that was probably a nice break from my questions. Things have only gone downhill for my dog. After the two seizures close together on 2/6 he then had another one 14 hours later, in the middle of the night, and since then is having shaking episodes every morning, just like he has right before a seizure, but then he doesn’t go into the full blown seizure. So, obviously there have been some undesirable changes in his little brain. It’s just so surprising to suddenly have such a change for the worse, when the seizures were becoming less frequent. But, as you mentioned, seizures are unpredictable and often there just is no rhyme or reason. Back in Aug/Sept, I spent hundreds of hours reading posts on the Canine Epilepsy Network forum, and I should have gotten that message then and been prepared for the way things have gone. I kept hoping for a sudden miracle of no more seizures, but instead got this sudden turn in the other direction.

Thanks for sharing your seizure dog experience. Interesting about most of the seizures happening while riding in a car. My dog has them when sleeping or resting. About 98% of them have been first thing in the morning – 1.5 hours after I get up and let him outside. Thankfully he has never had one while in my vehicle, as that would be dicey. I’m also thankful that he has never had one while on a walk. I don’t get too far from the vehicle now though.

I did start him on an anti-seizure med (Keppra) on 2/9. Disappointing that he is still having the “almost seizures” (partial seizures, I guess) every day, but a relief that so far there are no terrible side effects. With his liver enzymes already high, plus the fact that he gets around on only 3 legs, I just can’t go with the standard first choice AEDs.

I see that you have comments on food topics for me to digest (hah). I just can’t get my mind into dog food at the moment, so I will be back later. M&C

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I posted this same reply in the raw thread from which it originated. But answering here as well

If I had to name one area in nutrition that makes my head spin the most it is fatty acids. This is my understanding, but keep in mind my simplification of a very very complex topic may be incorrect, is that omega 6’s on their own are not inflammatory, but that they can be used as a building block for the body to make mediators of inflammation both pro and con.

Linoleic acid (LA) is an Omega 6 essential fatty acid (EFA) made by plants and is vital for skin health. Corn and soy are good sources, so animals raised on corn and soy like poultry and pigs can be good sources of this EFA.

Arachidonic acid (AA) is an omega 6 made by animals from LA. and is the primary building block for the production of inflammatory mediators. Dogs make AA from LA, cats cannot, so it is essential in this species, one reason dogs are classified as omnivores while cats are classified as carnivores.

The Omega 3, alpha linolenic (ALA), is made by plants and is the counter partner to linoleic acid (Both have 18 carbons). EPA and DHA are Omega 3’s made by algae,,but can also be made from ALA by some animals. The ability to do so and how efficient that process is differs among species.

. Here is where I’m not confident in my understanding but I think that when other structural FA are in short supply, cell membranes become saturated with Omega 6’s at levels near their dietary requirement. Meaning that higher levels of Omega 6 in the diet do not necessarily mean higher levels of Omega 6 in the membrane. Supplementation with Omega 3 is done to provide a different set of building blocks so that instead of the cell membrane being made with all Omega 6 it is made with omega 6 and omega 3. Now when Cox or Lox enzymes are present less inflammatory compounds will be produced.

So my understanding is that the key to decreasing inflammation is to provide Omega 3’s in the diet to meet the levels on a metabolic kg body weight basis that have been shown or believed to be beneficial for the condition you want to address and then because the Omega 3’s and 6’s compete for the same enzyme and metabolic pathways, control omega 6’s. so that the 6’s do not outcompete the 3’s for access to enzymes.

With that as a background I find the statement that chicken is inflammatory, baffling. Chicken can be a good source of LA, an EFA, and while LA can be converted to AA which then can in the presence of COX/LOX becomes a mediator of inflammation, on its own I don’t see it as a de facto source of inflammation. Nor do I understand the assessment that your dog is likely allergic to chicken based on a physical exam in the absence of any typical GI or skin signs.

In general, what I find in the holistic field is that a mustard seed of truth morphs into a sweeping overgeneralization which is then presented as fact. That is how I view this bit of information you were given.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. I certainly understand why you would be considering assisted living for your mother, and if you feel the slightest guilt for thinking about it – you shouldn’t. I have no doubt that being a full time caregiver is taking a toll on your health.

Thanks for the REDDIT tip. I will explore. I had found a really good forum called Canine Epilepsy Network, but it no longer seems to be active, or at least they are not accepting new registration. But I did get some good information, and encouragement, from reading old posts. I will definitely look into REDDIT.

My dog had a seizure this morning, and another one 20 minutes later. He has never had a second one like that. I spent the rest of the day sitting right beside him fearing that he would have a third one, but thankfully not.
Hope you, and your mother, are having a good (or at least not terrible) day. Hang in there. M&C

[Iren M]

Oh, this is a common story with cats. One effective solution to this problem is to have the cat neutered. Have you talked to your neighbors about the problem? Castrated cats become indifferent to female cats and leave them alone. It’s not an option to lock your cat up, because if she’s used to walking outside, it will be very stressful for her to be limited in movement. I recently read an article about this, here it is https://cleverpetowners.com/male-cat-wont-leave-female-alone-what-should-i-do/. You can follow the recommendations that are written there. Maybe then the neighbor’s cat will leave your cat alone.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. Your description of your doxie stealing pizzas is hilarious, but what a frightening experience with his lepto shot. I really can’t believe now that I let my vet give my dog a lepto shot so soon after his first seizure. He didn’t seem to have any immediate reaction to it, but I will never know if it contributed to the seizures that followed. My vet had been pretty persuasive about lepto so I was doing it annually for all of my dogs, but I didn’t last year because I started feeling the risks of reaction outweighed the benefits. I don’t live in an area that should be really high risk. But then a friend told me her dog had recently died of lepto. She doesn’t live in my area, but about 400 miles away, in a similar climate. So of course I freaked out and made an appointment for the shots. My dog had his first seizure 3 days before that appointment so I had not yet come upon the information out there showing a possible link between vaccinations and seizures. I was horrified when I did start reading that afterwards.

Thanks for the heads up on plug-ins and the Hartz shampoo. I don’t use either, but I’m always eager to consider any suggestions that anyone has for ANYTHING that might help. My approach has been to try to identify things in his environment, or that he is eating, that could possibly be a trigger. To get to the root cause, instead of attempting to control them with anti-seizure meds. Although if they should start to become more frequent, then I will go with meds.

Sounds like you know what your dogs like and what foods they do and do not do well on. I wish that I could get to a place where I could be more confident about how to feed mine. Mine like fat and both seem to do ok with it, but of course I realize that “seeming to do ok” doesn’t mean that all is well internally. And I’ve been overdoing it lately. My strategy used to be high protein, moderate fat, but then my seizure research caused me to change that strategy for the seizure dog and consequently they have both been eating pretty high fat. But some posting with Aimee definitely has me thinking I should move the other direction again.

On the copper issue, if you are feeding poultry based foods then it is pretty unlikely that you will see that problem. The S&C poultry foods that I have looked at have very reasonable levels, like around 20 ppm or below. So it sound like that is not something you need to worry about. One less thing!

Hope things start going a little better for your mother. She is lucky to have a caring daughter like you. My mother is in assisted living, over 1,000 miles away. So I’m always a little on edge that I am going to get a call saying that she is in the hospital, or worse . . .
You take care too PA. M&C.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for those detailed calculations and explanations. I will dig into that and give my brain a little exercise. I worked in a technical field so I like numbers. It is strangely relaxing for me to crunch numbers and I seem to have a notion in the back of my mind that all problems can be solved with a spreadsheet. But I retired quite a few years ago and there has been a lot of brain atrophy. So thanks for giving my old brain some challenges.

Thanks for the additional discussion on triglycerides and lipase too. So I guess from his lab reports it doesn’t appear that there are problems in that area yet, but I have backed off on the high fat diet. If his seizures should become more frequent then I might increase it again. But I will be really surprised if that happens.
It is a relief that stopping the CBD Oil seems to be making no difference in the frequency of seizures. I just hope his next seizure is not more intense, or longer. I suspect the CBD Oil caused his ALT and ALP liver enzymes to spike. My vet thinks that is unlikely, but from what I’ve read it sure seems possible. ALT and ALP went from 62 and 91 in Aug to 142 and 826 in Nov to 191 and 878 in Jan. I started the CBD Oil in early Oct. My vet seems surprisingly unconcerned about the ALT and ALP, but if they haven’t come down when we retest in March then my anxiety is really going to take off.

That company you mentioned who was so clueless about basics like fat content does highlight a problem out there that I was buying into. Thinking that a small company would mean good quality control and that possibly the owners really cared about producing a good product. I’ve been drawn in by some of them, who say great things on the website, but then I realize that I’m not sure they know what they are doing. But, that said, I still find myself wanting to find a small(ish) company that I feel really good about.
Always nice to get your replies. Thanks for taking the time. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi again Aimee. On the No Hide thread, I do realize now that the search function is the best way to find Topics. I can certainly see why that was a life changing experience. I’m glad you hung in there and although the outcome of the FDA investigation was disappointing, I’m sure Earth Animal isn’t celebrating a victory. I imagine a lot of people changed their outlook on the company from reading that thread. I’m glad there are people like you out there who have the knowledge, and take the time, to keep some of the bad actors honest. Hope you don’t get discouraged and stop.
Plus, taking the time to help people like me see some inconvenient truths about foods they are feeding, or considering, is SOOOO valuable. As I’ve said many times, I really appreciate it.
And, a big amen to this: “… then I lose confidence in that the company has the needed knowledge in other areas to make a safe product.”
M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for sharing more information and especially for the quick education on converting to energy basis. That balanceit calculator is great, and I did finally grasp your manual calculation (my brain heated up significantly, but I got it). At first I was puzzled by the 9 in your calculation, but thankfully the footnote on balanceit gave me a hint and I now understand where it came from. What I don’t really understand is how the balaneit calculator is able to do the calculation without the caloric value of the food, since that is not one of the entries. But, I don’t really need to know. Your calculation method is quick.

On triglycerides: My, you are quite knowledgeable when it comes to lab reports too. If there is a limit to the scope of your dog knowledge, I haven’t found it yet. The Lipemia Index was reported on 2 of his 3 lab reports and it shows N, with the footnote: “Index of N, 1+, 2+ exhibits no significant effect on chemistry values.” All 3 of the blood draws were done 7-8 hours after he ate breakfast. So not officially fasting, but quite a while after a meal.
This probably is unrelated, but the Lipase level was within range all 3 times.
Interesting about the movie “First Do No Harm” – I’m going to see if Netflix has it.

You raised the high copper issue and that is the very thing that got me so focused on vitamin/mineral content. Very early in my dog seizure research I stumbled upon an article about a concerning trend of high copper content in dog foods along with a trend of rising liver disease in dogs. So then I started looking at the nutrient profiles for dog foods and was horrified to see some foods with around 100 ppm copper (I also get concerned about Vitamin A around 150,000 iu/kg, even though I know the AAFCO upper limit is 250,000). I had been using foods that were pretty high in both, plus my dog was getting quite a few freeze dried liver treats daily. Going forward, I was very careful that the foods I chose had reasonable contents of both. But now, since I have started feeding so much fresh meat and keeping track of everything on my spreadsheet, I realize that my dog’s diet is getting close to copper deficient. So, he is getting a couple small liver treats a day, which is a change he is very happy about.

I did notice that the SRF Beef is quite high in copper, so I stayed with poultry recipes. When I first started being so concerned about copper I was appalled that some companies were putting food out there with such high levels, and it made me think less of those companies. But that seems to be so common with beef recipes that I had to let it go and just pretty much go with poultry recipes. The SRF issue of high fat recipes being touted as low fat on their website is troubling too. So much trouble for my brain to deal with . . .

And speaking of troubling – the “How many confirmed deaths?” reply you mentioned is so sad I don’t even know what to say. Depressing comes to mind. THANKS. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. Believe me, I’m barely holding my own when discussing dog nutrition. I realize after some exchanges with Aimee that I have some serious gaps in my dog nutrition knowledge. So now I’m trying to remedy that. But I have some pretty firmly ingrained thoughts on some topics (like % protein from meat, and carbs) that go against mainstream dog nutrition, so I’m not sure how that is going to be reconciled in the end.

The info you provided from another forum on Stella & Chewy’s is SOOO DISAPPOINTING. If I understand that post correctly it appears that S&C may be experiencing growing pains, that will probably not end well. I was getting ready to go back to feeding S&C. I used to feed that Wild Red dry product that is mentioned, and my dogs loved it, plus several of the freeze dried recipes. I stopped feeding the dry because there is a chance (probably extremely small, but still a chance) that the rosemary in it could contribute to seizures (in a dog that already has seizures). Then for a while I had other concerns about some of the ingredients in S&C, but have since pretty much let go of those concerns. I have to start letting go of some things. The list of things I’m concerned about has grown to a ridiculous length. I have been surprised that S&C has never made the Thixton Lists – or at least not the years that I bought them. I see in one of your posts that evidently Thixton kind of caught S&C in a lie regarding the source of ingredients. That is unfortunate. Especially since supplements sourced from China are not necessarily a dog food deal breaker in my mind. I think it is pretty hard to find human supplements that don’t come from China. But the fact that S&C lied about it until they knew they were caught is quite troubling.

I’m getting very close to deciding that I will never find a dog food company that I feel good about so I should just start making my own. I say that as though it would be no big deal to just start doing it, but it is a pretty overwhelming thought. Plus, I feel like my dogs need to be accustomed to at least one dry or freeze dried food so I can leave it out if I have to travel. That is what I liked about Vital Essentials mini nibs. I was able to leave it out for free feeding, like I would a dry food. But I’ve decided that I am definitely done with VE.

On the DCM issue, did you see Aimee’s reply in my Raw Food Topic? When someone as well informed as her is uncertain, then there are no answers yet. I’ve done just a little more online research in the last week, and it sounds like there are ongoing studies that point toward diets high in peas, lentils, and potatoes being the problem, but that is hardly a revelation. I want to know why! For now I’m assuming it is mostly peas and lentils (but I am still suspicious of beans too) in high quantities, which results in not enough high quality protein for the dog plus the peas acting as an anti-nutrient or even a toxin. Have you ever read “The Plant Paradox”? He is down on all legumes. I think dog foods that include grains just naturally tend to include less legumes, but in my mind the grains have no protective powers and are not providing lacking nutrients. But then, I really don’t know . . .

The agony you are going through in trying to determine, from order of ingredients and moisture content of ingredients, how much protein is coming from meat vs legumes is why I decided firmly that if a company won’t reveal the percentage of protein from meat (or animal sources is the language some use) then I wouldn’t even consider them. But Aimee brought up a good point about the definition of meat. Companies can play games with that, so I need to make sure I trust the company too. I feel a headache coming on . . .

Thanks for asking about my pup’s health issues. The one who is not doing well is only 6 years old and his issues are illusive. He’s an 80 lb mixed breed – probably boxer and black lab, maybe some pit bull, maybe some great dane. A real mutt. About a year ago (right after I lost a dog to osteosarcoma), he started going downhill. Lack of stamina and not getting around as well as he used to. He has had use of only 3 legs since he was a puppy, but before the downturn he made due pretty well. And his personality started changing and he became a very anxious dog, which at first I thought was a reaction to the other dog’s death. But the anxiety persisted and then he started having seizures. At first the seizures were increasing in frequency, but thankfully now they seem to be going the other way. And his anxiety is much better now, but I go to great lengths to shield him from stress. So, of course I have done a ton of online research on dog seizures and have essentially tried everything that had any potential at all. I didn’t put him on anti-seizure meds (except CBD Oil), but came close a dozen times. If the seizures continue to become less frequent I’m hoping to avoid meds.

One thing I will point out is that (from what I have picked up from your posts) your dogs are healthy and you have a track record of dogs living to ripe old ages. I don’t have such a good record, and it does cause me anxiety when I face that fact. Perhaps, despite my good intentions, I am contributing to that bad record in the way I have fed.
Nice posting with you. Hang in there and be sure to let me know if you have any revelations. M&C

[Patricia A]

Hi M & C,
I was able to have some time to read some of the posts between you and Aimee. I have to admit my brain is fried already . I couldn’t even chime in to discussion because I don’t even know what questions to ask anymore. I started simple with grain free vs grain inclusive.My three small Chis’ are not inherently at risk for DCM. But doing some research SOME say that even though taurine is added to the food, the legumes could stop the absorption . I also think, as I said in another post that because of the mold from grain that killed a lot of dogs years ago, the grain free craze was the solution. But then of course the ingredient splitting possibly causing some DCM cases. So playing it safe with that and still mixing the grain free with the grain inclusive to transition. Then looking at ingredient second is chicken meal. It is SAID that has more protein since after taking out the water content from first ingredient that being chicken it’s very little. But the chicken meal will stay on top of ingredient list since not a lot of water in that? I know a simplistic understanding for me but
with the grain free and all the different legumes individually it would be on top of list when added together by weight. So another reason I switched to grain inclusive. Then I researched which grain added would be the best. Stella and Chewy’s recipe uses pearled barley . I would have rather had unshelled or barley groats. Don’t know if correct but the latter is better for micronutrients and fiber. But hoping that is made up with the other ingredients such as oatmeal and quinoa? I did see this question on The Dog food and Canine nutrition forum “Which of these 3 would u choose? I’m looking for the best raw coated, grain free kibble.
I couldn’t edit it to add pics but
#1 Stella & chewy wild red raw coated grain & legume free red meat recipe
#2 merrick backcountry raw infused grain free great plains red recipe
#3 instinct original grain free rabbit recipe”
All the posters chose the first recipe she put up with ingredients which turned out to be the Stella and Chewy’s . Got to compare their Wholesome grains vs the Wild Red and see how ingredients differ. For what it’s worth the one I’m currently transitioning to is baked. But at LEAST many agree it’s a good brand.
My dilemma now is that recently couldn’t find their kibble at my local Pet Supply store. I ordered from online who did have it in stock. So I wrote on that forum and this was a posters reply. ” I work in the pet industry 😬 and unfortunately that’s just the first step for the entire line to go into big box. When a big company like that continues to grow that’s just the next step on the ladder to climb.
That’s why a large amount of their inventory went on sale for Black Friday to clean house for the move to petco. There was a supply chain issue because they focused on making ONLY the line going into petco because those are massive orders to fill and unfortunately that’s where the big money is and that’s where the focus goes.
My guess would be their quality and ingredients and company will start to not be as good as it used to be. Just the process of the crazy pet industry”
So just when I relaxed a little of course this is what happens. Uhhhh
I’m so sorry to hear about your pups health issues. What breed and age and what’s the problems’ M&C? Don’t think I can be of any help because I think you know far more then I do from nutritional aspect. But after having several dogs’ throughout my life maybe health issue is something I’ve experienced with one.

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[Danielle V]

Hi everyone, I could really use some help on next steps for my 3-year-old Westie. She has been diagnosed with bilious vomiting syndrome, and the internal med vet figures she has acid reflux/GERD. She has, for over a year, off and on, vomited bile very late at night or really early morning. Then often, not the next, but the following day, she will not be able to eat breakfast, her tummy will growl horribly for a few of hours, and she is quite nauseous but does not get sick again. Sometime later in the day, she can start eating again.

This started with just an incident once or twice a month and then went to once a week and then every couple of days to the point that she is npw having some degree of nausea and issues daily. She never throws up food, and almost always, the bile incidents are in the AM – also, she never has diarrhea.

She has been through many diet changes and has a boarded nutritionist. We are pretty sure that a food change in December made things worse, as she began to burp a lot! The smacking, hard swallowing, a lot of yawning, and occasional odd sound when eating or trying to play started as well. She appears to be nauseous to some extent most of the time now. Also, several weeks ago we tried the probiotic visbiome and that made things much worse! She was so nauseous and could not stop burping! We obviously stopped giving her this.

On top of this, she has nasty environmental allergies that are horrible in spring and not great in the fall. Also, some food allergies and certainly food sensitivities. Chicken is definitely a no go!

Yeast, she battles with on her mouth and on her personal area. Sadly the creams and shampoos for this she is so sensitive to that the cure is causing her as much discomfort as the yeast. Has anyone found something that does not cause massive skin irritation?

We are working on transitioning her over to home-made venison, sweet potato, butternut squash, and plain old pasta diet — she seems to have trouble with digesting grain; even white rice does not go well – worried about heart issues, though without it.
The nutritionist is going low-fat with this for GERD, but does anyone have thoughts as to if this combo looks good for acidic belly/reflux issues?

Here is the big question though — she was on Pepcid for 12 days, and it stopped the morning vomiting, and she was able to eat all her meals each day. She was still nauseous off and on, but better than before. Then it stopped working which I read a study saying that by around day 12, the drug lost its potency for dogs, and this sure seemed to be the case her.

We tried Prilosec, and it made her so sick! The burping kicked back into high gear, the nausea was awful, and she threw up and not just bile. She just does not seem to be able to tolerate this. The vet has recommended Raglan, but it scares me. Have others tried this and did it work, and what were the side effects? Also, it is for short-term use, so I do not understand what to do for the long term. All these drugs you are not supposed to keep them on, so how do you manage this ongoing? Does anyone have recommendations? Is Raglan a good next step, or should we be trying something else less extreme? Are there other options? Any advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. We are feeding her 4 smaller meals throughout the day, and she has a raised dish. We tried feeding before bed, but that seemed to make it worse. She did have an abdominal ultrasound, and everything looked normal. I know we may need to do more aggressive testing, but we would like to try everything we can before going there – putting her through anesthesia and more stress is not something I take lightly in her current condition. Thank you very much!

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks, as always, for the good information. You must chuckle to yourself at people like me who are struggling to grasp the AAFCO/NRC data, and dog nutrition in general. I’m finally taking the time now to better understand what I’m doing, but when I look back at where I’ve been, my bumbling is amusing. And, I still have a long way to go . . .

It’s disappointing to learn that there really isn’t much regulation over the dog food industry. So companies can claim about anything and get away with it. I imagine the small companies tend to be even more protected, because no one bothers to go after them for false claims. I notice that all of the foods I feed use the exact same language on the bags “… formulated to meet … AAFCO…” Lawyer approved language that protects them. But, thankfully people like you remind some of these companies that there are some very educated consumers out there who are keeping an eye on them.

Yes, my dog had his first seizure in August and I’ve been obsessing about his diet ever since. I’ve worked myself into a state of high anxiety thinking that what I’m feeding him may be contributing. Although thankfully the seizures have been less frequent lately (last 2 were 18 days apart).

Thank you for bringing up triglycerides. I just looked back at my dog’s lab reports and that was not tested for. Cholesterol was normal, but he was not fasting so I guess the results are not particularly valid. After reading your post I of course went on a Googling spree on cholesterol vs triglycerides but came away with a frustrating lack of understanding, and wondering why his bloodwork included cholesterol but not triglycerides. He is scheduled for bloodwork again on 3/1 so I will have him fasted for that and ask that triglycerides be included. Thanks again for bringing it up. I’m always willing to explore any possibility.

I have been purposely feeding him a high fat diet, even including some MCT Oil, as my research indicated that some seizure dogs do well when fed this way. He was eating high protein and moderate fat before the seizures started. He has never seemed to have a problem with fat (that showed in his poop anyway). Before I started making changes to his diet, and starting supplements, his poop looked great. He did develop diarrhea a few weeks ago that I think was either reaction to a new food or to starting Milk Thistle. I discontinued both. The diarrhea went away but ever since then his poop has remained too soft. He was on CBD Oil too, which I thought was probably contributing to soft poop. TMI on my dog’s poop, right? Sorry, I get carried away. I think reducing his fat intake is a really good thought, and I will definitely get the triglycerides checked.

Thanks for adding some discussion about Steve’s. I need to take my education to the next level to understand some of what you have presented (I’m really lacking in understanding regarding how to interpret calories from fat, etc.), but I do get the point you are making. I think Steve’s has some data presentation issues on the website too. Did you notice that they show the Vitamins being presented As Fed but the Minerals being Dry Matter? And yet it looks pretty apparent to me that the Vitamins are Dry Matter too, particularly when I compare the frozen to the freeze dried. I raised the question and got an answer that was really perplexing – something about using the freeze dried data (even for the frozen), so the As Fed was actually close to Dry Matter. Yikes! The rep seemed thankful for the input, but the website hasn’t changed. My once hopeful thoughts are starting to turn . . .

I probably need to take a time out for a few days before deciding what to do, regarding his diet. I’ve made SO MANY changes in the last 5 months, which I know is not a good thing. I need to be settling in on something and stick with it. Thanks again, for your time. I REALLY appreciate it. M&C

[aimee]

Hi M& C,

I think you’ve got it! The best way to compare foods is on a caloric basis. This takes into account water, fiber, ash and energy density. You’ll note on this site there is a table for each diet and that the macronutrients are given in an as fed. dry matter, and caloric basis.

AAFCO requires that for any diet over 4000 kcals/kg DM a conversion factor be applied. If the diet you are feeding is 5000 kcals/kg that conversion factor is simply 5000/4000 X the number in the table. So many times, I’ve found that companies overlook this. Recently, I got a nutrient analysis table for a diet labeled for ALS. The Ca content was listed as 1.3% DM and AAFCO’s min is 1.2%, so that looks good right? Well, they also reported the kcals as 5400/kg for that diet. Calculating through 5400/4000 X 1.2 = 1.6. The diet needs to have 1.6 % Ca to meet AAFCO min and they are reporting 1.3%. Got ‘ghosted” after inquiring about the apparent discrepancy.

AAFCO writes a model food law which most states adopt in some form, but they do not do any type of regulation. There is no oversite by AAFCO. Oversite is done by your state feed control official and the FDA. IMO for all practical purposes, oversite is nonexistent in most areas. It seems to me that areas that effect humans, like pathogens in food, are monitored via spot check cultures of foods. Some foods may be tested to see if they meet their GA.’s, but overall, no one is checking to verify information on a label is correct.

In regards to high bone content in foods, it could just be a reflection of what sourcing the company has access to and an acceptance of high fat and mineral content in the products available to them.

I didn’t see calorie content listed for the diet to see what mineral content is on a caloric basis. But I found their marketing very oft putting and reckless. They write “Turkey meat is one of the leanest proteins available making it a great option for pets that are sensitive to fat content, such as those with pancreatitis.” which can be true esp turkey breast. BUT their turkey diet is a whopping 35% as fed fat diet! Using their information and doing some rough calculation that would mean ~63% of the calories are coming from fat! This appears to be a very high fat diet being marketed as being appropriate for dogs with fat intolerance. For me that makes me see red and would earn them a spot on my not recommended list.

Just as an aside.. did you mention your dog is having seizures? I’m asking because you mentioned a 5000kcal/kg diet and to reach that high of caloric density fat has to be significant component of the diet. I might get my details wrong on this because it is awhile since I read the literature. But as I recall some dogs have low levels of tissue lipase. This results in prolonged clearance of fat from their blood and the outcome is high triglycerides. High triglyceride can trigger seizures.

A friend’s dog was having horrible cluster seizures several times a month, was seeing a vet neurologist and on 3 different drugs. Her reg. vet noticed that on each blood panel gotten back from the neurologist, the triglycerides were high, and the sample was always reported as “lipemic,” meaning visible fat in the blood. The reg vet called the neurologist and the neurologist said paraphrased “yeah they are high, but not high enough to cause seizures.” The reg vet told her there is no downside to trying a lower fat diet. So, the diet was changed, triglycerides returned to normal, and the dog went from having multiple cluster seizures a month to never again having another seizure. Apparently, the dog didn’t read the medical book.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Well my dog nutrition education is coming along, and thank you for your part in that. I appreciate that you are taking the time to help educate me. I could have educated myself a lot quicker if I had just taken the time to read the 2014 AAFCO document that I have instead of bolting straight to the table.

I think I now understand how it can make a difference whether the vitamin/mineral content of foods is evaluated based on actual calories consumed (or actual caloric content of the food), vs the presumed content used by AAFCO. I don’t pay much attention to the feeding guidelines of companies, and my dog is probably an average keeper, but the way I was using the AAFCO data was problematic. I was converting the AAFCO food content (ppm or %) data to total daily needs for my dog. The foods I feed seem to average about 5,000 kcal/kg so I was using that when doing the conversion. But I realize now that I should have been using 4,000 and by using the larger number I was essentially lowering the AAFCO recommended levels. So when I was comparing the total vitamin/mineral content consumed by my dog in a day to my computed AAFCO daily, it was not a valid comparison. Plus, a food might look like it is barely meeting AAFCO, but is not when it comes down to what my dog is actually getting. Am I thinking straight now?

Does AAFCO conduct any oversight of companies who claim that their foods meet AAFCO standards? Does AAFCO require that they submit a quality control plan and submit lab reports periodically? I suspect there is only so much AAFCO can do and therefore the oversight may be minimal.
How about the calorie content of foods? Who regulates that to insure that what is stated on the bag is accurate? I guess if there is some regulation of that then it would be of some comfort that a company couldn’t get too carried away with adding bone to their recipes because then the caloric value would get very low. Right?

I sure have changed my thinking on how I evaluate the quality of a commercial food, and I’m very thankful for the information you have provided me that nudged me to rethink.
And speaking of that, I noticed something discouraging (heartbreaking, really) about Steve’s online data. I recently started feeding Steve’s and was hopeful that this was going to become the food that I finally could feel good about. But they recently put some updated data on the website and the Ca and P increased dramatically. Not quite as bad as what I had mentioned previously about Vital Essentials, plus I do applaud Steve’s for actually keeping their online data current. But, I’m realizing now that very high Ca and P are troubling to me. Especially since I feed turkey necks too.

This is how Steve’s Turkey recipe changed. The frozen and freeze dried are supposedly the exact same recipe and all data is dry matter basis.

Turkey Frozen
old new
Ash 2.13% 10.8%
Calcium 2.2% 2.9%
Phosphorus 1.7% 1.8%
C/P 1.3 1.6

Turkey Freeze Dried
old new
Ash 8.01% 9.2%
Calcium 2.06% 3.83%
Phosphorus 1.59% 2.31%
C/P 1.3 1.7

This bone content issue is starting to feel a little like the pea scandal. Companies increasing the bone content more and more to increase their profits.

What is the Topic name for the No Hide thread you mentioned? I see that you are a very busy poster. Looks like a lot of good reading in your Topics, to be explored when I have more time. Sorry to bombard you with so many questions in this post. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. I’m still struggling a bit to understand the difference in approach between NRC and AAFCO, but I think that I’m getting there and maybe I should be relying more on NRC.
I realize now that those AAFCO max values that I quoted yesterday are evidently outdated. I have been using a document that was proposed revisions for 2014, which is all that I have been able to find online (for free), and I thought those were what was approved, but maybe not. The online Merck Veterinary Manual includes what I think is the most current AAFCO table and the max values are different there. From my 2014 AAFCO revisions document, these are the maximum values for adult maintenance: Ca 1.8% P 1.6%. From the Merck AAFCO table they are Ca 2.5% P 1.6%.

I also stumbled across an interesting document from FEDIAF (national pet food industry associations in the EU and from Bosnia-Herzegovina, Norway, Russia, Serbia and Switzerland) which seems to use NRC, with some tweaks, and they also show the max as Ca 2.5% P 1.6%. Huge document with a lot of good discussion on dog and cat nutrition, downloadable for free.

I haven’t been able to find an NRC table online that shows maximums for Ca and P. I’ll bet you can tell me if those exist. I’ve been using recommended 2006 NRC values out of a book (K9 Kitchen), but no maximums are provided for Ca and P. Merck has an NRC table online too, but no maximums for Ca and P. I found in my notes (I neglected to note the source of that info) that the NRC maximums per 1,000 kcal are Ca 6.25 g and P 4.0 g. Does that sound right? My notes could very well be wrong. I think those maximums would translate to about 3.1% and 2.0% on a food content basis. I used an assumed food with 5,000 kcal/kg DM for that computation. But I barely understand what I’m doing, and these computations are starting to challenge my poor old brain.

Boy I can’t believe how I can go down dog nutrition rabbit holes and burn up hours of time. I need to get a life right?

Your No Hide thread certainly sounds interesting and I will look for that next time I’m here. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi again Aimee. Regarding my analysis of my dog’s diet, I look at both the NRC recommendations and AAFCO. I tend to look more at AAFCO (using dry matter basis ppm or %) because of ease in comparing to the vitamin/mineral data I get from companies. I just use an Excel spreadsheet to add up the total of all vitamins/minerals from all the foods they eat. This is the only descent exercise my retired brain gets now.

I do realize that I am going to have to add more variety to the self-prepared portion soon. Because of my dog’s (alleged) food allergies, I have ended up feeding almost a Prey Model diet for the last couple months, but I’m not sure that I think this is a healthy way to feed. As I imagine you have picked up on – I’m not sure about a lot.

Regarding that certain company I have become disenchanted with – they have evidently blacklisted my email. I don’t get a reply any more, and I’ve decided that I’m done with them. I really tried hard to talk myself into trusting them, because I hated to put my dogs through yet another food change. Plus, unfortunately, Chewy had a big sale on their foods a couple months ago (right before I started becoming suspicious) so I now have a very large stockpile of food I don’t feel good about.

The company does claim that the food “… is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO …”. The vitamin/mineral data that they have on their website does, from what I had looked at. The disturbingly high calcium and phosphorus numbers came from data emailed to me by a rep when I asked a question about what was online. What she emailed me was significantly different in many ways from what is online. For both the Duck and Turkey recipes. When I asked about that the communications stopped. As I said, I’m done with them. There is no point in pushing the issue any more, plus I don’t want to get the rep who sent me the updated data in trouble. She was just trying to be helpful.
Well I had better sign off and take the mutts for a walk. M&C

[aimee]

Hi Crazy 4cats and Mutts and Cats,

AAFCO recently made all ingredient definitions public. You can access them here.
https://www.aafco.org/Publications/OP-Chapter-6-Public-Access

I’ll address your concern about the high mineral content of certain recipes as I understand the issue. It dovetails with the explanation I gave prior regarding % meat in a recipe.

The AAFCO definition for poultry is different than for non poultry “meat” The definition for Duck “is with or without accompanying bone” So while you may envision muscle when you read that ingredient it could be racks stripped of most muscle and therefore have high bone content. Th high mineral content of the formula gives you a tip off that the duck may be have a lot of connective tissue in relation to muscle tissue.

The meat definition doesn’t mention bone and like you I assumed that meant no bone. But the definition doesn’t specifically exclude bone either. I talked to 2 different manufacturers. One told me the “venison” they used had a mineral content of 25% ! This is reflected in the mineral content of the diet
T

[Mutts and Cats]

Aimee and crazy4cats – if you guys care to weigh in on this other obsession of mine too – maybe help me see errors in my thinking – that would be great. Reading on the AAFCO page from the link crazy4cats provided, the definition of “meat” clearly states that it does not include bone. I was pretty sure that was the case, and most companies who add bone either state “including bone” or list the bone parts as individual ingredients. This got me thinking about another topic that has been bothering me. I mentioned earlier in this post how I lost my trust in a certain company because of anomalies in their online vitamin/mineral data, and my suspicions that the data didn’t jive with the ingredients.
One of my big concerns was the high variation in calcium and phosphorous content (between different recipes and between what is online vs additional info provided by a rep). That, plus my feeling that just based on the ingredients listed on the packaging I can’t figure out how these high calcium and phosphorous numbers are even possible. But, I’ve just recently become interested in the gory details of dog nutrition, so I’m probably missing something.

For example, for their Duck recipe, the dry matter values for calcium and phosphorous are 3.91% and 3.15%. These were provided by a company rep as the most current info and are much higher than what is currently on the website (1.79% and 1.52%). The large increase is disturbing, given there has been no change in the ingredients, but even more disturbing to me is how the heck could that food even have 3.91% and 3.15% given the ingredients? Seems to me they would have to be including bone and even then it’s pretty hard to get to 3.15% phosphorous just using meat with some bone included, isn’t it? I can’t help but suspect they are using something like dicalcium phosphate, but not listing it as an ingredient. Or, there is something terribly wrong with their analysis methods.
Ingredients:
Duck, duck gizzard, duck heart, duck liver, herring oil, mixed tocopherols (preservative), vitamin E supplement, zinc amino acid complex, iron amino acid complex, copper amino acid complex, manganese amino acid complex

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. This is a great post that you started. A lot of good discussion.

I misread some of your previous posts here about Stella & Chewy’s. I thought it was just a customer rep who made a bad statement about taurine. The fact that they actually have that on their website is disturbing. Hopefully the geek who designed the website accidentally manipulated facts from the company employees who actually understand dog nutrition, and then they just haven’t gotten around to correcting it.
My understanding of taurine and dogs is as you described. However, I have read from numerous sources that some breeds are predisposed to taurine deficiency, and my dog with health problems is one of those breeds. So I am glad to see manufacturers adding it and I add a little more to his food – just to be safe. I’m pretty darn sure that taurine is one of those things that is not detrimental in excess. However, excesses of some vitamins and minerals in some commercials foods (line Vitamin A and Copper) has become a real concern of mine. But, I had better not digress . . .

Sounds to me like you have made a good decision to make no big changes to your dog’s food right now. Sounds like you have your hands full given the situation with your mother. I hate making changes to my dog’s food because it is disruptive for them and I’ve made many changes in the last few months that haven’t worked out. I’ve pretty much decided that I need to stay with where I have landed now for a while. I feed similar to the way you do. For the dog that has health issues and food allergies, he gets about half of his food as raw meat, plus part of a turkey neck each day. The other dog gets raw meat too, but not as much. For the other half, I feed several different brands of raw frozen and freeze dried. Purposely feeding several brands to average out in case one is not a good product.

After I made the statement I did about Stella & Chewy’s vitamin/mineral data I decided that I should go back and look at it again, since I haven’t in a few months (which is a lifetime for my brain). I have to say that it looks REALLY good to me compared to what I have been encountering with some other companies. It looks professional and I don’t see anomalies in the data. Like big differences between different recipes that can’t be explained by the food ingredients. Makes me want to go back to feeding S&C. The main problem for me is that they add such a variety of vegetables that all of the dog recipes have something my dog is allergic to. But I may need to explore some of the cat foods. I also stopped using S&C when I was going through a phase where I wasn’t comfortable with artificial phosphates, and S&C does use those. But all indications are that they are in very small amounts.
So, for what it’s worth, I still think S&C is one of the better companies out there. Thanks for mentioning your correspondence with them about WSAVA compliance. I feel good about their reply to you. IMO, having a full time certified nutritionist on staff seems unnecessary and only serves to keep smaller companies from competing with the “Big 4”. I don’t like to see that.

I have to admit that I was not really familiar with WSAVA. I had heard of it, but I’m not sure why I never got around to looking into it. Glad you mentioned it, so I googled it, and now I know. I certainly agree with their basic principles for determining a good manufacturer (except the full time nutritionist), but I’m just not sure that I can ever go back to companies like Purina, Iams, and Royal Canine because I associate them with foods that have something like corn or soy as the second ingredient. I exchanged posts with Aimee on my Raw Food Recommendations post on this topic and when she mentioned those companies my jaw actually dropped down. But, I do recognize that she has a great deal of knowledge on dog nutrition, so I am going to try to keep an open mind and see what those brands are offering these days in their premium lines.

I share your frustration about the boutique brands and marketing ploys. I’ve become really frustrated in the last 9 months or so in my quest for a brand that I can trust. Sadly, after all of my efforts I still don’t feel really great about any of the commercial foods I feed. That’s why I feed so much raw meat, and keep track of the vitamin/mineral contents of everything I feed, so I can supplement where needed. I’ve also been through the dilemma of whether brands that mostly don’t use supplements are better than those that do. I’m still back and forth, and had better not get started on that, since this post of mine is probably approaching record breaking length.

How true it is that our dogs are probably eating much healthier than us. In fact lately I pay no attention to my own nutrition. Nice posting with you. M&C

[Patricia A]

Hello M&C,
I was agonizing about switching my three to a grain inclusive food. I believe grain free recipes came about after all those deaths of dogs’ from the contaminated mold of corn.

(December 2005, a string of pet deaths and illnesses were linked to dog and cat food produced in Diamond’s South Carolina plant. A few different brands of pet food manufactured in the plant, including Diamond, were recalled, but not before the products were shipped out nationally as well as to more than 2 dozen other countries.

The pet food was thought to be contaminated with aflatoxin, a toxic byproduct of a mold that attacks corn under certain temperature and moisture conditions. Drought, insect damage to crops, and improper storage and handling can all increase the risk of contamination.

Unfortunately, more than 100 dogs were thought to have died in 2005–2006 as a result of the tainted Diamond pet food. It remains one of the worst pet food recall events in U.S. history. Diamond vowed to reimburse customers for veterinary bills and other costs.

I discovered a dog food nutrition forum few months ago. Well, I just became so overwhelmed with those advocating that ONLY PPP should be fed if I care about my dogs’ heart health. Then there are those who hate vitamin packs in dog food. So brands such as Carna4 and Natures Logic, has no necessity for added vitamins since their claim is nutritional needs all come about naturally from their quality of ingredients..

I definitely started to doubt my choice in Stella n Chewy’s when I read a statement on their website that they add Taurine because dogs’ can’t synthesize their own taurine. After writing to them about this huge error they corrected on their site. They also had an error with stating their kibble for large breed puppies would not be appropriate since contains not ENOUGH calcium.Even though I never had a large breed puppy, I THOUGHT they needed LESS calcium in a puppy food? The DFA board has been much less active then in years past. However, a member on the board that does frequent and has always given researched, detailed replies when I post questions assured me I was correct in my understand regarding the calcium needs. I was only looking at their recipes and guaranteed analysis for their grain inclusive recipes when I came across these errors.
Well after much agonizing I made decision to stick with what all three are doing well with. Probably not very scientific but I feel the kibble with the ADDED vitamin pack gives them proper nuitrion while I add the freeze dried with only the meat and organs . Like I wrote I rotate brands in this. However, I am now transition to their Wholesome Grains baked kibble and it is agreeing with all of them.
If you read my other posts you then know I am caregiver to my mom who now lives with us. I had my two Tia and Loli Chihuahuas’ but now have her Sophie Chihuahua also. She suffers from dementia so I am always rushing my posts so I hope what I write makes sense . I enjoy the time I have reading up on new brands of freeze dried to see if I should add in rotation. But I just can’t do the big change to a new brand of kibble . it’s a small part of their diet along with home cooked when appropriate. So I’m just not looking at the dog nutrition forum anymore to further confuse me and make me doubt my choice. I don’t know if correct but someone wrote this on reddit forum.
“Anyone have any experience feeding this to their dog? Legume-free, potato-free, corn-free, higher protein, and contains wholesome grains.
It fits all of the WSAVA guidelines from an ingredient and nutrition standpoint but does not comply with their staffing requirements. I called Stella & Chewy’s to ask about that and the sales rep I spoke to said the only thing keeping them from being considered “compliant” is that they don’t have their own ACVN-certified nutritionist on payroll full time, however, she did say they outsource testing regularly to a third party ACVN-certified lab (which she also added means it’s tested more thoroughly).
Just a thought for anyone looking to feed WSAVA compliant food but wants to avoid the filler ingredients in the big 4 corporate brands. Brands with grains but without legumes or corn seem tough to come by these days.
Between boutique brands telling you to feed your dog like a wolf to corporate brands telling you they’re “backed by science”, it’s hard to cut through the marketing BS in the dog food world.”
Anyways, I do believe our dogs’/cats for you also are eating better then us. At least me since I REALLY do need that Ben n Jerry’s Cookie Dough Icecream to relax me at night. While “the girls” get their string bean and Bixbi treat and when I’m not looking a piece of cheddar from my hubby. lol

[Mutts and Cats]

I came back to do some more reading.
Patricia A – you mentioned Stella & Chewy’s and some disappointing interactions with their company reps. I used to feed S&C’s and felt good about them for years. I’ve actually never had a bad experience with their customer service, but mostly stopped feeding it when I started really scrutinizing ingredients about 8 months ago (food allergies, plus some other concerns that may not be valid). I will say that in all of my reviewing of vitamin/mineral data, what I received from S&C looked pretty good. I don’t remember red flags that caused me to think the data couldn’t be trusted (as I found for many other companies). And I don’t remember any glaring AAFCO deficiencies (or excesses).

I too have gone through the agonizing decision (many times recently) of whether to dump a company due to poor customer service or suspicious vitamin/mineral data or lack of online transparency. In retrospect, I wonder if I was too hasty in some cases, because I’m realizing that my expectations have probably been too high. But, as you commented, once I discover something really concerning, it is hard to let it go.

I have to say that you and those who have posted replies here are all obviously doing A LOT of research on dog food and are well informed. We are all trying hard to do the best we can for our pups – right?

[Mutts and Cats]

Ana W – thank you for your reply. This continues to be an issue that I’m unsure about, but for now I’m avoiding foods that use any artificial phosphates. I read several articles that said artificial phosphates are absorbed MUCH more readily by dogs (and cats) than phosphorous from foods and therefore the dog can end up with a calcium:phosphorous imbalance. Plus, as you mentioned, problems for dogs with kidney issues.
Incidentally, after my original post I did find out from Steve’s Real Food that they have changed the recipes for all of their dog and cat foods and no longer use Dicalcium Phosphate.
Thanks again for weighing in.