[DogFoodie]

I’ve used the VE tripe treats. The dogs love ’em. There are gobs in a big bag, too. Most are pretty well sized, but some are scrawny.

[aquariangt]

Yes, it’s the potroast ones, I saw meatball on the bag and apparently that stuck. I’ve used tons of freeze dried treats and never had ones that are this hard so that’s why I was wondering if I got a bad bag. I’ve never used anything from GL before either. Size wise they would be great if they weren’t so dang hard. I swear every treat I get when trying to get to my $49 from Chewy when it’s something I haven’t tried ends up in the garbage, haha!

Have any of you tried the Vital Essentials Tripe Treats? I was eying those for my next order

[Dori]

D. O. I think he’s referring to the “cheeseburgers”. In their description on line somewhere they described them as snack size meatball treats. When I looked at the site I thought of them as being crunchy since they’re freeze dried but I can certainly see them as a choking hazard for larger dogs them mine. They look about the size of Vital Essential Freeze Dried Beef food. I’ve never fed Grandma Lucy’s treats so don’t really know anything about them other than what’s on Grandma Lucy’s site.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[Naturella]

@aquariangt, are you talking about the treats? The Tiny Tidbits treats look like meatballs, although they are not called that. I didn’t see anything titled “Meatballs” on the Grandma Lucy’s website. Maybe they are supposed to be rehydrated like the food? IDK…

***EDIT*** – They do call them “Snack-Size Meatball Treats for Dogs”. But yeah, I’ve never used them, and if they are treats, they shouldn’t NEED to be rehydrated, but maybe it will help if they’re that hard…? And then you could mush them up and stuff them in something, and freeze them instead of giving as a treat? Just an idea.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Naturella.

[BlackandBlue]

I’d like to post a few ideas about feeding cats. About a year ago, I noticed my cat obsessively licking the fur off his belly. Eventually figured out he’s got chicken intolerance. And, although I put a liquid dental additive in water that I add to his canned food everyday, his teeth were looking yellow. Here’s how I solved both problems: I feed my cat canned large breed chunky lamb dog food (Nutro Natural Choice large breed lamb and rice formula works great but there’s others such as Hills Ideal Balance lamb cans) a few times a week.
1. It’s really hard to find a resonably priced canned cat food that doesn’t contain either chicken or fish, the dog food works great for these reasons. The Nutro is often $1.78 on sale for a large 12.5 oz can.
2. Kitty has to really chew up the large chunks so it’s really helping his teeth. (It also slows down his eating which I think is good.)
I do feed daily his dry cat food and canned cat food but it is tuna fish based.
As a side note, I think the dental dry cat foods (the large nuggets by Royal Canin or Science Diet), given as treats everyday, do help with cat’s teeth, but I can’t use them anymore as they are always chicken based.

[Akari_32]

Ugh, I’m gunna start smacking people. My grandparents came over today, the same ones that have no self control over how many treats they give the dogs, and they left the front door open when they came in! I was out back, in the garage, so I didn’t even know, and I come back in through the back door to mom yelling, and the front wide open. Mom comes around the corner with the cat (who had a terrible, angry, defeated look on his face) draped over her arm. I took him from mom, tossed him in my room, and shut the door.

We leave to go fishing, come home a few hours later, they come back in, guess who leaves the door open AGAIN? Luckily the cat was still locked up. I made some very nasty comments, disguised as “jokes”, both times. What the crap is so freaking hard about CLOSING THE FRONT DOOR WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH IT????? *bashes face on wall* And why does MY cat have to suffer being locked away in the bed room because some idiot can’t close the door? Why do I have to suffer the stress of my cat getting out because someone else can’t function? What happens when my cat get hits by a car because some retard can open a door but NOT CLOSE IT? Do you think they leave the front door open at their house? I can guarantee you they don’t.

[Dori]

Cheryl, I just figured out photo bucket just before I posted. It’s called photobucket.com It’s a place where you can upload photos that are on your computer, elsewhere too, maybe? Not sure? Anyway, then you can copy and paste it on a forum. LOL I had to go on to youtube to get a couple of tutorials before I could figure out how to copy and paste to the forums. That’s about as much help as I can give you. TheBCnut use to say how un-techie she is so the other day when she posted the Rachels I figured I should at least give it a try once again cause I am fairly tech savvy but the posting of pictures has always eluded me. Now that I’ve done it I realize how easy it is, of course, that’s after looking at the tutorials over and over again.

Thanks for the compliment on “the girls”. Yep, they were having a tea party. They got freeze dried Vital Essential Tripe treats for their “cookies”. They were trying to give them some of their real cookies so I ran into the pantry for “their” cookies.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[Derek P]

Thanks, you guys have been very helpful so far. We are looking at changing his treats from Milk Bone to something with less ingredients, and waiting to hear what the vet says tomorrow morning. From what I read about the Coccidia I would think it isn’t that parasite only reason is because I have never seen any bloody stool. Just to add his diarrhea is not completely liquid, it is more of a soft serve, not the typical log type (not sure if those are correct scientific terms haha). Also he is aprox. 60lbs

[Dog_Obsessed]

I assume you are talking about the dental treats? Here are the ingredients I found:

Potato flour, rice flour, glycerine, water, natural flavor, gelatin, canola oil, titanium dioxide (color), monoglycerides of edible fatty acids, flaxseed oil, citric acid, magnesium stearate, tetrasodium pyrophosphate

Not horrible, but not great either. I’m not a fan of the ingredient glycerine, (more info here) but other than that they look okay. There isn’t much nutritionally redeeming about them though.

Since they are a edible chew, a dog could potentially swallow a large piece. It is important to know your dog’s chewing style and always supervise when giving chews. Occasionally, less digestible chews can cause digestive upset or an intestinal blockage. I don’t know about the digestibility of these, but that is something to be aware of.

It says on their website that all ingredients come from North America. There can be loopholes in these claims, but it is a good place to start.

On a final note, these treats look pretty high-calorie, at 89.5 calories for a small and 179 calories for a large. They wouldn’t be something I would recommend feeding daily.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dog_Obsessed.

[Susan]

Hi, try lower protein % & lower fat % diets, & milk bones are the worst they are high in fat… get a limited ingredient, low fat, single protein kibble, Have you tried a Hypoallergenic & Gluten free kibbles, something like “California Naturals” Lamb & Rice limited ingredients, it just has 4 ingredients or their Kangaroo & Lentils… or try the “Natural Balance” limited ingredients Kangaroo & Potatoes or the Rabbit & Potatoes or the Duck & Potatoes as these flavours have the least ingredients.. here’s a really good group to join & for help, Face Book “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disorder” once you find a diet & while ur trying a new kibble, do not give any treats, NOTHING just the low fat limited ingredient kibble, if everything is going good, then after say 3 months introduce something new like home made treats that are Gluten free, wheat free…
http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products

[Bobby dog]

Also, since you are unsure if it’s a food intolerance at this time I would start keeping a list of ingredients now of any foods (including treats) fed in the past or you are currently feeding. Comparing what ingredients these foods have in common and how your dog responded to each food is something that needs to be done in order to find the offending ingredient(s). It can be a long process or it may be simple, diligence is the key if it is a food intolerance.

If food intolerance turns out to be his problem it is important to treat your dog as the individual he is and find his specific intolerance; each dog is different and each will be intolerant to different things.

[Derek P]

We have an 8 month old Bulloxer (American Bulldog, Boxer Mix) and cannot find a food that will not give him diarrhea. He has had a couple solid poops, but then goes straight to diarrhea after that period. First we started him on Orijen Large breed puppy, we fed him 3-4 26.6 pound bags and still nothing but diarrhea and bad gas. We eventually switched him to Wellness Core Puppy food (which he is currently on). He started out fine for the first week or so, but now we are back to diarrhea and bad gas. He never has any table food and only has Milk Bones for treats. The only thing we could come up with is that he may just have a sensitive stomach, or dog food intolerance specifically to chicken since both of those food main ingredient was chicken. Any help is greatly appreciated, in order to get our pups stomach under control!

[John P]

Hi, Dori.

I must have misinterpreted something to begin with, but I also must have worded something incorrectly. What I meant is that if I can only find three distinct proteins, a way to incorporate variety and possibly avoid sensitivity issues would be to find a food with the same protein but different supplementary ingredients. I never thought that you intended me to use one protein. In fact, I think you’re the one who convinced me to rotate in the first place!

I’ll take your freeze dried advice into consideration and do some research. I really don’t know anything about freeze dried foods and treats (pricing, availability, health benefits, etc). I was looking for a pork-based treat to feed along with the Acana Pork and Butternut Squash kibble, and I found the Orijen Wild Boar freeze dried treats. Do you think those would be suitable as a close relation and have the health benefits you mentioned? I liked them because they were produced by the same parent company as well as the fact that wild boar is in theory wild pork. Orijen also offers freeze dried lamb treats I believe. I don’t use a lot of treats, but they’re helpful when grooming. And grooming is a daily chore with wheatens!

You have been incredibly understanding as I’ve worked through this. As Tony the Tiger would say, You’re Greaaa-aaattt!

[Dori]

Hi John. Just saw your post here and I’d like to reply and help if I can.

Nope, it wasn’t me that suggested that you keep your dogs on the same protein. That’s totally against what I do or would recommend. I may not have explained things correctly. What I had said is that I would suggest that you find a few different (proteins) that your dogs do well on and rotate within the brand if, in fact, there are different proteins in that brand that you can feed. Also find other brands with proteins you dogs do well on and rotate within all the brands all the proteins that your dogs can eat. Rotate proteins and brands. It is never, in my opinion and the way I feed, a good idea to keep a dog long term on any one protein and on any one brand.

I can’t comment on the Acana line or any dry food as I’ve mentioned before. My allergy, intolerant girl can actually eat Nature’s Logic kibble but only the dry and only the sardine formula and only in my way of rotating which is often.

Other foods I thought you might want to consider to add into their diets are Nature’s Variety Instinct Freeze Dried Lamb (doesn’t contain any poultry, fowl, or beef)

Nature’s Variety Limited Instinct Kibble Rabbit or Lamb.

Stella and Chewy’s Freeze Dried. They have a rabbit, a lamb and also a venison formula. None of which contain beef or fowl of any sort.

I think adding freeze dried to their diets in rotation would be a little more cost effective with the kibbles you’ll be feeding because this way, at least, they’ll be getting some of the benefits of raw on occasion. The other is that if freeze dried is too expensive as their entire diet in rotation you might consider rotating through the freeze dried foods that I mentioned and use them just as their treats. You’ll be sure they’re getting healthy treats and they’ll benefit health wise and you don’t have to worry about what’s in the commercial “treats” which usually contain something dogs with food intolerances have issues with. I hope this has helped. Sorry, but I hadn’t realized that you were on the road 9 months of the year. Hopefully when you stationary from time to time if your room has a fridge with small freezer you may be able to just buy small bags of raw frozen to add into their diets. Nature’s Variety Instinct is sold in most, if not all, Petco and Petsmarts and they seem to be everywhere in the country. I love that you travel with your dogs and that they are a priority in our lives. Yes, we are all rather companion animal obsessed (or most of us are) and we like it that way. So, never fear, you’re not in the minority in the world of dogs and your wanting to do the very best you can for them. I’m pretty sure it would be a safe bet that most of us dog obsessed people on this site feed our dogs healthier diets that we do ourselves and our families. I’ve been known to do a McDonald’s drive thru from time to time for myself and my husband yet would rather die than feed my dogs any low quality garbage dog food. They become our children and, as such, we commit ourselves to their health and welfare. As typical parents, we usually put ourselves last. In my opinion that’s a good thing. They can’t choose what they eat, we do it for them so we should try to do the best for them. It’s the least we can do for them when you consider all they give us in return.

[Diane D]

How safe are the dog treats Checkups?

[Cotons mom]

Beverly, I have two cottons, 1 1/2yr old, and I have had the same problem with the eye staining their whole life. I feed only raw, and pretty much the identical ones that Dori listed and they only get filtered water and if they get treats they get either fruit/veges or small pieces of freeze dried food. They do get bully sticks and raw bones from time to time. I’ve tried the sardines in water but neither one will eat them. My husband is very frustrated with the staining and has even said that he wants to try the stuff called Angel Eyes but I don’t have a good feeling with any of that stuff.
They are due their “shots” and I’m wondering about getting titers for some, and wonder if their is anything out there for heart worms besides stuff like heart guard.

[Akari_32]

Psh, I don’t get any money from her. It all goes to mom for the extra water and electricity she uses up (good lord, this woman is laundry crazy and doesn’t turn ANYTHING OFF!!). Not looking forward to her living here again. She’s got to be one of the most stupid, ignorant people I’ve ever met. Thankfully mom said she’s only staying here until she finds another place to live. *Please* let that be soon!

I moved all the dog food to my closest (well over 100 pounds, I’d say), all the dog and cat treats and random etc type items to the stand under one of the reptile tanks (were I keep the canned dog and cat food), and the litter went out in the garage (or next to the liter box, in the case of two of the tubs lol probably about 100 pounds in all). Now I have to do some rearranging to make some space in my bedroom. Had to quickly move stuff out of the closet to fit all this dog food…. Let’s just say the place looks like a tornado went through.

….Multiple times…. Lol

I’ll get to you as soon as I can go through and get out all the ones I don’t want/can’t use 🙂 I’ll try and do it tonight. I’ve been meaning to get them all out cut out and organized anyways lol If you’ve been through this years calandar and know what’s in there, feel free to make requests!

[Akari_32]

😀 you guys are the best!

Ugh, so bad news. I lost my stock pile room 🙁 Our room mate moved out several months ago, so I moved all my dog food and treats and goodies and cat litter into the spare bedroom, and mom just texted me that she is moving back in tonight and to clean the room up. Maaaaaaan! Now what am I gunna do when I go on big shopping trips?? 🙁

Oh, and I gotta talk to you about these PetCo coupons I got, Naturella! Maybe you can use some lol I bought two calendars, like a nut job XD I’ll email you in a bit lol

[GSDsForever]

With loose stool problems like you’re describing, I will give a dog a something like cottage cheese and white rice, bland & highly digestible, for a few days. (You could also use boiled plain chicken breast for the protein.)

That usually will clear up whatever is going on. And it allows the dog’s system to recover. In fact, often you will not see the dog produced stool for a day or so, and then it will be minimum. Make sure the dog has sufficient water, whenever a dog has diarrhea (or vomiting).

I really doubt that your dog needs the specific Iams food, but that mix of foods from 2 Wellness products and Orijen (why the mix?) may not be right for your dog. Try a single recipe blander, simpler, moderate in protein & low to moderate fat diet for a bit. You need low residue, which is just another fancy way of saying highly digestible, but it doesn’t have to be a specific formula & brand with that in the title or be a vet diet. Watch the treats too.

Do not overfeed, underfeed until you get it right, divided between two meals a day (no free feeding), and watch to make sure your puppy does not eat too fast. Do not play/exercise/walk/have excitement for your dog within 1-2 hours of feeding, backwards & forwards. Feeding should be during a time of calm & rest.

A tablespoon of all natural plain yogurt, with live active cultures, can also help with problem stool/digestive upset.

It’s good that your vet gave probiotics, as the antibiotics destroy beneficial bacteria. I don’t typically jump right away to antibiotics and would encourage you not to do that either. They are overused, cause problems, and rack up your vet bills unnecessarily.

[Naturella]

Just 3?!?! OMG! This is hard! LoL.

I may have to say, almost the same as C4C’s – raw eggs (MAYBE with lightly cooked whites if I have a bigger dog in the future, but for Bruno it wouldn’t make too much of a difference so I feed the whole egg raw), canned sardines including their water/juices (mmmmmmm, Omega Fatty Acids… ), and RMBs (gotta keep the teethsies clean 😀 ).

But if I could include more, there would be raw virgin unrefined COCONUT OIL (sardines are probably better, hence they made the cut, as they not only have the Omega FAs, but are a meat protein, with some bone for calcium, if I’m lucky a little fish organ left in there too), yoghurt/kefir, goat milk, canned food, dehydrated/air-dried/freeze-dried foods (I’m squishing them in one category), raw organ meats (livers, gizzards, kidneys, HEARTS, tongue, green tripe, whatever I can get my hands on. Yes, I know the heart, the tongue, and the gizzard are muscles. I count them toward the organs.), various fruits and veggies as treats (not in the kibble), and as needed canned plain pumpkin, Perfect Form, and maybe plain brown rice and boiled chicken for extreme tummy upsets.

[GSDsForever]

Yes, of course — digestibility and good absorption of nutrients and such, unless . . .

*there is a substance put in there specifically to harden & shrink the stool as found in even some crappy formulas made by smart companies to appeal to customers, or

*nondigestible plant material is included in big quantities, either from large quantities to fill up a dog in a weight loss diet or to supply other nutritional benefits (but usually good brands will just limit the amounts in this case)

I remember Wellness’s Yogurt, Apple, & Banana Well Bars (treats) being very well liked by the dogs and producing GIANT stools — probably from high percentage of whole grains & fiber in them. We miss those treats, as they smell great!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by GSDsForever.

[Meghan M]

To second GSDsForever, I emailed Sammy Snacks asking about ethoxyquin and here is the response I got:

“Thank you for your interest in our products. We pride ourselves on providing the highest quality of pet food and treats available on the market at an affordable price. As part of that we hold all of our mills to higher standard than most brands. We provide all of them with clear and concise list of what ingredients are not allowed in our products (of which ethoxyquin is one). We also provide them with a list of suppliers that we don’t allow to sell them ingredient that are included in our products. All of them must agree to these requirements or they would no longer make our products. I also don’t trust anyone else when it comes to the Sammy Snacks and Ancestry brand, that is why we order tests on all of our product. One of the many things that is tested for is ethoxyquin. All of our proteins and fats are preserved with vitamin E (sometimes called tocopherols).

I hope this helps and please feel free to contact us with any more questions.

Thanks,
Matt Frey
CEO
Sammy Snacks Inc.”

I may eventually add this food to my rotation. The only issue I had is the amount of Omega 3s listed. Her current food (Infinia) has a minimum of 0.3%, while the Ancestry has only 0.4%. I’m not sure if that makes it a lower-quality food compared to some of the others, but I did note the other brands had much higher levels: Zignature at 1.0%, Wellness CORE at 0.8%, Victor at 0.7%, and Legacy at 1.4%.

I also looked up Timberwolf’s dog food, and really liked the Wilderness Elk Platinum, the Black Forest Platinum Grain Free, the Ocean Blue Platinum Grain Free, and the Lamb & Apples Platinum Grain Free. I hadn’t heard of this brand before, so I’m glad I was introduced to it!

I found a store nearby that sells Victor, so I think I will start with this food based on the recommendations, along with the fact that it is the lowest protein level out of my top 3 favorites. As long as my dog does well on this for awhile, I’ll see how she does with Wellness CORE, Legacy, and possibly Zignature.

I did have a question, either specifically for GSDsForever, or for anyone who can provide input. You talked earlier about how processing is imperative for digestibility and nutrient preservation. Do you know of any dog foods (either that I have already listed, or outside brands we haven’t discussed) that have good processing techniques and gentle cooking methods?

Again, thank you all so much for your input! I feel a lot more confident about my choices – it is still overwhelming though, because there are so many options! I’m just glad that I’ve narrowed the options down to a few, and I guess now it is just a process of elimination to see how she reacts with some foods versus others.

[GSDsForever]

Allergy & Food: I would try a single novel protein/novel carb source diet, including restricting all treats (can only be that protein/carb).

This needs to be something your dog has never eaten before, ideally both the meat/protein source and the carb(s). You feed this a long while and other monitoring (you and your vet), then slowly add back in one protein at a time. You see what makes the symptoms disappear in your dog.

Heartworm Preventative: There are only so many active ingredients effective in heartworm prevention. Heartguard would have the same ingredient as Iverhart, Ivermectin. Your other option is the main active ingredient in the formerly made Interceptor, which now only is available with other anti-parastitics in the formula.

You do need to use one of them, as heartworm is very deadly & brutal on a dog.

You can also have the main active ingredient compounded for your dog at a compounding pharmacy, in whatever form and flavoring/inactive ingredients (in case of severe allergy to what you’ve already tried) and exactly custom to the weight of your dog.

Dry skin & shampoo/conditioner — Please see my thread I already started on that topic here, asking for help.

[Dori]

I’m looking forward to seeing Sugar in your avatar. Even if you’re on a windows machine you can still go to gravatar.com and sign up and then they’ll walk you through the steps to post picture. I just can’t walk you through it because I’m on a Mac.

As to the foods that I feed, they are all commercial raw foods from companies that I like and trust and all three girls have done very well on all of them. I feed all three girls the same meals. I also rotate proteins within the brands and I also rotate with different brands. All proteins with the exception of any and all poultry (fowl) regardless of how or where it is listed in the ingredients. Nothing with feathers because Katie is highly intolerant. These are the companies I feed.

Primal Formulas Raw Frozen and Primal Pronto Raw Frozen and sometimes Primal Freeze Dried
Vital Essentials Raw Frozen Foods and sometimes Vital Essentials Freeze Dried
Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food Only
Answer’s Detailed Raw Frozen
OC Raw Frozen
Nature’s Logic Frozen Raw

Once or twice a week I split a can of sardines in water with no salt (from grocery store) between the three girls.

For treats I give them small pieces of organic (if available) fruits and veggies. Apples and cucumbers must be peeled because they carry a lot of bacteria and are waxed to make them pretty for us. Make sure to not feed any seeds or pits from any fruits as they are toxic to dogs. Of course as I’m pretty sure you already know, no raisins, grapes or onions.

If you want any more info, please ask.

[Melissa M]

I just wrote a whole long post and I lost it! My female did eat this morning but my male refused. He is hungry though because he drooled while I ate my toast! Very stubborn little guy! My female has nice formed stools this morning which she hasn’t had in a while. That was nice. They both have some deadly gas though! It’s new to their tummy’s so it will pass–literally! My male will not get any treats today (crossing fingers here–one look and this mommy might cave) so hopefully he’ll eat his dinner.

I do know that dry food isn’t much better for their teeth but I just don’t like the wet. My neighbor’s dog is strictly on wet and boy, her breath could kill you!! I just don’t like the look of it and I can already see my two dog’s expressions on their little faces like, you expect me to eat that?? Remember, these two are unfortunately used to eating human food probably more that kibble so they need to be broke of that habit! Slowly, but we’ll get there I hope!

[Naturella]

P.S. How did you stir this mix up?! Even for my small 10-lb holding container I used to have to mix in a huge tupperware dish with a wooden spoon till everything was mixed evenly and then pour it into the actual container, and the rest back into one of the bags (whichever was resealable). The most I’ve mixed up is about 20 lbs at once. That took Bruno about 4 months to work through. Thank goodness for toppers and treats to spice his life up at the time (and now too). It is kind of much easier now that I don’t mix, but hey, I love seeing your pics of food mixes! 🙂

[Beverly D]

Hi Dori, Thanks much for info. Yes, we always bring her food that she has eaten for years, and her same treats. Not sure why things would change so drastically after 7 years. She has boarded here since a pup, her groomer is there, as is her vet. Do you or anyone out there have any thoughts on the various raw dog foods? I have been doing some research and this was mentioned as a possible way to go. We have been giving her probiotics, and I am s-l-o-w-ly thinking (or maybe I am just THINKING I am seeing) that I see a change for the better. Very frustrated. Appreciate your help!

[Dori]

Beverly D. I’m wondering if you know whether they gave her a different food. I’m assuming that when you board your dogs you brought enough food for them. Also, do you bring them water also or are they drinking the facilities water. Maybe their water system needs to be checked. Too much chlorine or fluoride in the water if it’s city water. If well, maybe too many minerals. One of my dogs is a Maltese and a couple of years ago when I boarded her she came back with reddish tear stains, reddish feet and a reddish beard. I had to conclude that it was something she ate or drank. Also stained reddish were the hairs all around her vulva. Also a big one, have any of the employees been handing out treats (which is very sweet and I know they all mean well and like to do that so the dogs don’t fear them). You may be feeding grain free and the facilities treats may cheaper treats that contain grains. Or something in the treats your dog had an issue with. I find that it’s typically something like that.

[Melissa M]

I personally don’t care for wet-yucky breath and teeth. Raw, I won’t do. My female is about 30-32 pounds and my male is 40 ish -could be 37-38. We just went out and got Taste of the Wild–going to try that and tough love, feed twice a day with no treats in between. (good luck to me!) Their brown eyes get to me! Was going to try American Natural Grain Free since it’s made here in Wisconsin but no bags under 15 lbs here locally. They got excited seeing the bag but they usually do until it’s opened.

[John P]

Dori:
I think rotational food might be my best bet at this stage in the game, but I have a few questions/comments for you:
1) How would you recommend introducing the new foods I’m researching to make sure Iggy (and Bella, my other Wheatable) can tolerate them before I rotate in a second, third, and fourth food (and so on)? It usually takes a little while for the itching to show up in either Iggy or Bella. On the other hand, I learned very quickly that bison was too closely related to beef for Bella (she has violent reactions to beef). Within hours, she was incredibly sick. So, I guess my question is how long would you wait before introducing each food and how many foods would you feed at a time when you’re trying out a new one? Would you switch to it exclusively for a short period?
2) I have always made my own treats. This started when I rescued Iggy as a puppy. He was extremely malnourished but wouldn’t eat much of his puppy food at a time. Bella, who is two years older, has never had any problems eating (especially if it’s bad for her — haha), so I had to find ways to get get nutrition into him throughout the day when he felt like eating without necessarily leaving food out all day long. I worked with my super awesome vet to come up with some “recipes”, I played with them to Iggy’s liking, and Iggy and Bella have been enjoying them to some extent ever since. They have always been anti-inflammatory, grain-free, and high-protein, with a good fat-to-protein ratio. I don’t use treats very often, but when I do, they’re always from my own kitchen.

crazy4cats:
Pardon my ignorance, but what is a “topper”?

Pam P:
This is great information! Like I said, I’m new to this site and new to the dog food world beyond what I have found in the aisles of my local pet supply warehouses. Please bear with me as I bombard you with questions/comments as I did with Dori. Here goes:
1) What is kefir? I’m afraid to leave this page in my tablet to go Googling for fear of losing everything I have typed so far, plus I’m betting your summation will be far more knowledgeable than anything I can find on Wikipedia.
2) How exactly do you find out if a company uses synthetic vitamins and minerals? Does a limited-ingredient brand such as Acana use them? I’m guessing something like that would be on the ingredients list, but is there a separate list as one might find on a cereal box? I tried to play around with Editor’s Choice the day I joined, but I couldn’t find the purported ingredient benefits of membership. That could be both a limitation of my browsing device and a limitation of the short amount of time I had available for browsing.
3) Do you mix the oils directly onto the foods before feeding? How do you know how much to give per kg/lb — does someone have a guide somewhere online? Again, this might be something I could search online. My Wheatables both have the soft blonde hair of the Wheaten breed, but it doesn’t have the luster it had when eating the Organix. I realize that could be due to many things besides just what I fed them at the time. I know when I first rescued Bella and before I got Iggy, my old vet introduced me to Dr. Udo’s pet line of holistic products. Do you have any experience with those? I believe he has a vegan oil blend (with several of the oils you mentioned) designed to do just what you said. The only reason I bring it up is it would have dosing guidelines. My worry comes from the fact that Iggy is at risk of being underweight (always has been), and Bella is at risk of being overweight (always has been), so I want to be sure and dose exactly according to what they should be getting.

InkedMarie:
Thanks for the hints! You saved me a lot of headache and searches by pointing me in the right directions. If I can use Dori’s rotational recommendations, I’ll need some novel proteins because so many have already been eliminated due to established allergies and intolerances (mainly poultry). I really appreciate the help!

Melissaandcrew:
Okay, I own several books on Wheatens. They are adorable, but that very adorableness is their downfall, which is why I have rescued two. However, I haven’t ever encountered specific literature on (nor have any of my vets told me about) skin conditions due to intestinal problems. I know about the inheritable digestive enzyme-related diseases. Do those also cause skin problems? If so, what kind? I will Google this further as soon as I can. However, your first-hand perspective would probably help me more than anything else.
Also, thanks for telling me you are also a proponent of rotational feeding, although to a more relaxed extent than Dori. This helps me decide that some form of rotational feeding is the next move for our pet family. I wish I had thought to do this sooner.

Pam P:
Nice to see you again! Thanks for the advice on the vaccines. Iggy and Bella missed their last routine vaccinations because they were extremely inflamed at the time, and the vet didn’t want to risk it. I will mention everything you said to my vet, and we will go from there. She has been extremely good to work with me so far. She got out of vet school right about the time Iggy joined our family, so she knows our history well, and she seems to be more flexible than some older vets.

Thanks again to everyone! I’m sorry I wasn’t more concise. I just have so many questions. If you don’t feel like answering but just want to send me to a website, a link is fine too. I’m off to do all of that Googling I promised to undertake. This community is amazing!

[dana i]

Hi! I’ve been reading this forum all day today, but am overwhelmed by all the choices. I’d really love to hear people’s actual experiences and thoughts– what is on paper does not always match what makes the dogs happy and healthy.

I have two lab mix dogs– both rescues.
Diesel is a 1 year old Lab/Shephard mix who has allergies. 65# dog
Dudley is a 1 1/2 year old lab/Greyhound mix who has gas issues when he eats ANYTHING other than the current food… (even treats) 83# dog

They were both given horrible diets before they came to me.
I have them on Science Diet Lamb and Rice Large Breed formula.

At the time, it’s the ONLY thing that I found that helped Diesel’s allergy symptoms (they are completely gone on this food but when I try anything else it comes back) and Dudley’s gas is now a very rare thing on this food.

However, reading it seems that people don’t like this one and that there may be better out there… And the fact that when I went to buy it today I found it went up in price AGAIN. uugh. Maybe now is a good time to switch…

I want what is best for them, with budget kinda on the mind at the same time.

Right now, it takes us 11 days to go through a 33 pound bag of Science Diet Lamb and Rice large breed formula dry food and used to cost us around $45 a bag but did just go up to about $50.

I’d really love to get them something better. Maybe something that also makes their poop a little smaller too? (I know–wishful thinking? LOL)

Any suggestions based on the gas/allergies?
I priced raw diet– which I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to do, but it’s way out of our price range from what I am reading.

I CAN and will supplement a little bit of our cooked food on top (If I can avoid the gas and allergy issues– that will take a little experimenting)….

I have a feed store 1 mile from my house that sells some food but he’s kinda expensive on some items. I also live near Petco, Petsmart and have Amazon prime… I live in Texas, suburb of Dallas if that helps.

Any thoughts or tips would be greatly appreciated!

[Brian K]

Regarding commercial treats, I prefer freeze dried treats that are 100% meat. They are portable, light, and the dog loves them. Though expensive, Orijen has a line of these…I like the “Tundra” which has venison, elk, and trout. We also like Bravo! freeze dried treats….the Bison is a big hit (it’s just freeze dried bison). We used to offer Wellness “Just for Puppy” treats but he is less enthusiastic about these now that he gets real meat treats from time to time.

Our dog adores the Natural Balance “Jerky Bark” limited ingredient treats which we received as a gift, but I’m not a big fan of the fat content and preservatives…maybe I’m being overprotective.

[Brian K]

Though not nearly as efficient as a dehydrator, a 175-to-200 degree oven for several hours can do the trick for liver treats.

[deja]

We have a dog recently diagnosed with epilepsy and I’m on the search for a new food because I suspect the one she’s on now contains these preservatives (a prescription Science Diet food). I’ve been finding it very difficult to find definitive information on whether foods use BHA/BHT/Ethoxyquin. I figured people on this website might have more experience/information.

Do you know of dog foods that the company has stated do not contain BHA, BHT, or Ethoxyquin? Either on their websites or through response to email inquiries.

Personally I’m also looking for non-raw food that does not contain rosemary (not easy to find!), and is also not too high in fat (less than 17% preferably). But I think I can narrow those down myself more easily, so I’m mostly looking for help with the preservatives. So far Life’s Abundance is the only one I’ve found that also meets my other requirements. Natural Balance says no BHA/BHT/ethoxyquin as well on their rolled food and some treats, but I can’t find comments on any of their other food.

[Paulette M]

Have seen excellent treats to try. I will look for a dehydrator so I can do my own.

[Dori]

Hi John P. First let me say that I’m a commercial raw feeder grain free foods so I’m not going to really be of much help with kibble. I do know that a lot of people on this site consider Acana and Orijen made by Champion to be a quality company. The only kibble that, on rare occasions, I have put in rotation is Nature’s Logic Kibble but only the Sardine. All others contain either some sort of beef or poultry (eggs). One of my dogs has many many food intolerances and sensitivities. The list is quite long so I won’t bore you as they don’t pertain to your dog. But she is highly intolerant of all things poultry which includes all fowl. Below is a partial list of what I feed my three dogs and they all do very well on them, I’ve left out any of the beef that I feed because your dog has an intolerance to beef. I feed all my dogs the same food because of my allergy girl, Katie. I feed a rotational diet so here goes.

OC Raw: Fish & Produce Patties, Lamb Patties, Rabbit Patties, Goat Patties

Primal Raw Formulas and/or Primal Pronto Formulas: Venison Patties, Rabbit Patties

Vital Essentials Raw: Fish Patties, Rabbit Patties

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw: Venison (also contains lamb), Rabbit (also contains pork)

Stella & Chewy’s Raw: Venison, Lamb, Rabbit
I’m not a great fan of Stella & Chewy’s but will feed it if I’m in a pinch.

Natures Logic Kibble: Sardine (It contains millet which is a pseudo-grain. Katie can’t tolerate grains but for some reason the millet in Nature’s Logic doesn’t seem to bother her. Could be because I feed it so infrequently and never for more than one meal every so often.

I’m an advocate of rotational feeding for my three dogs so I rotate their food pretty much with every meal and don’t feed them the same protein without a three day break in between. It’s the only way I can get around Katie’s food issues. Dogs with allergies should also avoid corn, white potatoes, rice (all), soy. They are all pro-inflammatory so you’re basically feeding the allergies and making things worse. You need to feed non-inflammatory foods and ingredients as best you can. It’s pretty difficult to avoid every single thing all the time but it helps a great deal to do your best.

Hope some of this has helped. I’m sure someone else will chime in soon to help with kibble feeding.

Oops! Don’t forget about checking to see what’s in the treats you give your dogs. For treats I only give pieces of fruits (no grapes) and veggies. No seeds or pits with the fruit please (toxic), I also peel apples and cucumbers. I don’t feed any commercial treats due to grains and too many recalls for my liking. Too many pesticides used on both. Good Luck and if I can answer any questions please ask.

I just wanted to mention that the only fish that Katie cannot eat is salmon. All other fish foods she’s fine with but is very sensitive to salmon.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[GSDsForever]

Meghan,

First of all, can I just say what an impressive amount of thoughtful research and care you’ve provided for your dog? Honestly, wtg! Your dog is very, very lucky to have such an obviously caring owner.

I think nearly all the brands you’ve listed are really good choices made by reputable trustworthy companies, with the exception of Innova, a Proctor and Gamble product. I agree with Akari and would avoid Proctor and Gamble brands, just as I avoid Mars/Purina/Nestle/etc. and Diamond manufactured brands. P&G brands bought out from Natura include Innova, Evo, California Natural, Karma, and Mother Nature treats.

I am not familiar with Sammy Snacks Ancestry and so cannot recommend it before knowing more about the company and its history. I would advise caution with newer/less familiar brands until you have some good information beyond just ingredient labels and guaranteed analyses. This company could be great, however!

If you want to know more information about Horizon, Zignature, Earthborn, and Wellness, I am really familiar with these brands & and would be happy to share what I know.

Of those, I think the Horizon Legacy Fish and Zignature Trout & Salmon would be my first choices. And not only do they both have excellent amounts of Omega 3 (and Omega 3 to 6 ratio) from exclusively wild caught fish, and the Omega 3 is not derived from plant oils (which are unlikely to be absorbed), both are ethoxyquin-free.

I appreciate that these brands you mention are available at lower price points. I’m on a small budget too! Remember, just because a more expensive brand exists, it doesn’t always make it a better food from a better company. Ditto for who has the best marketing vs. makes excellent food with high quality ingredient & processing standards.

[Naturella]

D_O and aquariangt, I see, ok, so high-value treats are good for learning new things and enforcing commands that Bruno struggles with. But low-value treat parties work too. I shall keep that in mind! 🙂

Bruno needs to work on recalling, heeling, waiting (not allowed to get a treat from my hand until I say so; we use “leave it” for things he wants to get from the ground and he’s actually pretty good with it) and staying on command, and hopefully learning to potty quicker when taken out to do so, lol.

All his other little tricks like sitting, shaking “hands” and alternating the paws when told so, laying down, rolling over, turning around in a circle, going up and down on command, pawing at something specific, giving high-fives and high-tens, sitting with front paws up (on his butt), standing on hind legs, jumping, going into his crate and onto his bed, going to “see” (more like lick) me or Brian on command, giving kisses on command, barking on command and being quiet when told so (FINALLY!!!) – he is pretty good with those, but still need to polish up the ones noted above. I am also trying to think of what else to teach him, maybe walking for some time on hind legs, or bringing various items on command… IDK. If I can get to an agility course, I would love to teach him agility type “tricks”, but we don’t have one super close to where I live. Maybe one day! 🙂

Also, aquariangt, I don’t think I will be going to Colorado anytime soon, and quite possibly if we go, it won’t be for dog training, lol. But I hear it’s beautiful and outdoorsy, so if we move to the North West we may visit Colorado. But feel free to share whatever else you want (I promise not to bug you about it!), just whatever is good about training for a person who doesn’t train professionally to know. 🙂

Thanks again for all the tips, everyone! As usual, it is much, much appreciated! 🙂

[aquariangt]

Treat parties for new commands and commands you struggle with are great! Nothing wrong with extra treats for something tough, I often make one little treat last forever (great for stays especially) mixing all those tactics together is great, and it’s good to keep me guessing. For old things I also move into treating every 2-4 times instead of every time, the. Two in a row, then skip a few, etc… When you are getting ready for the good citizen for example, you can’t have treats, so it’s good to get to that point without treats. And I see no problem with giving lots of high value treats for learning things, I don’t only pull them out a couple times in a session.

Unless any of you are planning on coming to Colorado for dog training, you aren’t clients that would normally pay me, so I have no problems sharing 🙂 ( I do however get loads of people mooching for free advice, mostly I don’t care but if it’s intensive, I’ll tell them to setup an appointment. The worst is people who call me about dog training that I don’t know from Adam, and ask me a million questions hoping for free answers, grr…) anyhow, off topic, you all are my internet dog friends so no worries.

Counter conditioning is quite simple, and exactly what it sounds like. Helping your dog not be afraid or anxious in a situation that puts them over threshold, causes fear, or is otherwise a hard position for them to be in. I do this the exact opposite way of what you see the dog whisperer do on tv ;-). I’ll use my sisters Westie for a really basic example with cars. He was terrified of them (can’t blame that eh?) but it was to the point where he would yank, bark, go crazy- unsafe really. So every time a car drove by, we worked on focusing on her, making her a pez dispenser, hand out as many treats as he would take, and reward when the car was gone. Clickers help with this as well. Eventually he got to the point where he could sit and focus without treats, and then click and treat party. Now she doesn’t even have to stop walking, but from time to time gives him a treat anyway. This tactic can be used for a lot of different counter conditioning, and I really like the clicker and having some shaping skills worked in for a lot of it as well

[Dog_Obsessed]

It would probably be okay to give high-value treats in slightly larger amounts once and a while, though take into consideration overall calories. On Sunday, we were using Bixbi Pork Jerky and breaking it up into teeny tiny pieces, and that was plenty motivating enough for Lily. Yes, I did violate the “no jerky” rule, because what she can eat on the elimination diet is very limited. Bixbi is basically built around the cardinal value of being american made and sourced.

[Naturella]

D_O, thank you for sharing this! Are high-value treats ok to give in larger amounts until the dog learns a new trick? I guess I can try to break some of them up, or cut them small… Would they still be considered high-value by Bruno then too?

[Naturella]

@aquariangt, this was super helpful actually! And I’ve been eying the THK Quickies for a while, I may just invest in some in the future, when at least most my kibble samples have been used up. 😀

I never thought to use high-value treats for commands Bru struggled with! I would just use extra low-value ones, for example 3-4 pieces instead of just one kibble. But I will try to implement that! Maybe Bruno will learn to go potty quicker if I am about to give him a piece of a knick-knack or something! And to come when called (lil’ sucker struggles with recalling when in a new environment too). Also, I don’t know if this is “training proprietary info”, but what is counter conditioning fear? Basically teaching a dog to not be afraid? If you can’t explain (like, if you normally get paid to explain this), then you don’t have to.

Also, would it be safe to throw him a stuffed Kong to help with any potential separation anxiety when we leave the house? I don’t think Bruno’s really bad, he just looks super miserable when we’re leaving, but he finally stopped getting into the trashcans (his only menace), and more often than not we find him just waking up from a nap when we come home, so he’s good now about not destroying anything.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Yup, you got it right! I like to use high-value treats when training new commands, and low-value treats when reinforcing them. We also met with a trainer on Sunday to work on Lily’s dog reactivity, and we are using high-value treats when practicing the exercises, even without dogs present.

[aquariangt]

I keep 3-4 treats on me at a time. Regular, bulk of what I’m using treats-usually 2 varieties (i try to keep it low cal as possible) A high Value Treat, a treat too of natural unsweetened peanut butter. With Dani I also keep both a fleece tug and a Bumi for throwing, as those are rewarding to her and good for certain speed situations. Liesl has no interest in that 🙂

The regular treats i use (i like to use 2 for variety) for just run of the mill training, walks, classes, completing obstacles, etc… I throw in a high value treat every now and then to keep them on their toes 😉 I also use them for certain things they may be struggling with-say Bruno was having a lot of trouble with his recall, use a high value treat. I almost always use high value treats when training Leave It. Peanut Butter I only use for 2 things (usually, those big eyes can turn me into a sucker dad) Recalls, and completing a course in agility.

That was all a jumbled mess. my short version:

Low Value (as Dori said, not low quality, just less exciting): Everyday training, commands they know, group classes for warm up etc…
Examples: Zukes, Boulder Dog Food Chicken Bits, The Honest Kitchen Quickies, Bare Bites

High Value: Commands you’re struggling with, counter conditioning fear, recalls (maybe), Leave Its
Examples: Freeze Dried Stuff (Simply Sojos, Stella and Chewys, Fresh is Best)

Special High Value Awesomeness: I like this for recalls because they are so important, and then after a course or something where they don’t get a ton of treats
Examples: For me-Peanut Butter because they love it. I would possible lump in the Fresh is Best freeze dried organ meats as well, because I’ve seen dogs fall off of things for it 😉

Hope that was semi helpful

[Naturella]

Hey, Dori, you are making perfect sense, no worries! Thanks for responding! 🙂

That is kind of what I thought because we normally give him various kibble as treats and when he sees a kibble sample baggie he gets pretty excited, but when I head to the closet where his special treats are (bully sticks, cow/lamb ears, pig snouts, chicken/duck feet, Etta Says chews, knick-knacks, tendons, tracheas, etc.), or to the fridge/freezer where the RMBs and Kong/other stuffed chews live, he gets SUPER excited, so I understand now. He only gets those on super special occasions, and the regular kibble on the daily for little training sessions or what not. Ergo, special treats are high-value treats. 🙂

[Dori]

Yes, Naturella. A high value treat is also one that you wouldn’t normally be giving Bruno on a regular basis. A treat that he would give up anything and everything to have. A high value treat is usually more “food” related than actually a commercial type treat. A piece of liver, chicken, etc. Or if you don’t normally feed him freeze dried foods than it can be a piece of that. Low value treats are not meant low value as in quality but low value would be treats that he gets all the time and is not really going to go out of his way to do exactly what you want when you want for that treat that he gets just for looking pretty or any other reason. It has to be really special and only used for those high value training sessions. Hope I’m explaining myself clearly and not running on too much.

[Naturella]

Hello, all!

As per the usual, I have a question. Just want to see if I have it right – the difference between high-value and low-value treats is basically how much the dog would like one over the other, and generally you can get the dog to “trade” a toy or something else if you offer a high-value treat, but you can use low-value treats for training. Is this correct at all? I just keep seeing these distinctions in other blogs/websites, so I need to enhance my knowledge. 🙂

[Naturella]

D_O, gotcha. Well, hope it helps! My local store had the small bags of Acana and Orijen for sale for $2 down from $4, so I grabbed me one of each and I’m trying to use them up pronto because they expire soon, so he gets Acana on Tuesday and Orijen on Thursday for breakfast. I think they will be gone pretty soon cause I also use them as training treats/treats in general. 🙂 We like them.

[Naturella]

Hey, all! So, today Bruno had his first beef green tripe can – Solid Gold Green Cow. It smells like vomit. Like someone had lamb innards and then vomited them, lol. Naturally, Bruno LOVED it! Then again, he loves everything, lol, little vacuum cleaner. I gave him about 2 heaping tablespoons (it’s a big can, we gotta use it up soon) and reduced his kibble too, so he had a nice dinner. His breakfast was Acana Pacifica with some yoghurt, and the dinner was Wysong Quail with the green tripe.

I also got him a new Kong toy, the regular but in black for heavy chewers, size small. It won’t fit his food serving, but I plan to use it for just goodie treats, like the tripe, doggie “ice-cream”, etc. So I stuffed and froze his new little Kong, 2 hooves, Casey’s medium-sized Kong (I have permission to give her dog-friendly treats and concoctions), and the remnants of a horn (won’t be buying those anymore as they are not naturally-shed. Hooves probably aren’t either, but mine 2 were a gift, so I will still use them). And we still have some of the can left in the fridge probably for both breakfast AND dinner tomorrow… Or I can feed half tomorrow, half Thursday, we’ll see. 🙂 But yeah, Bruno likes it a lot, I just really wish I either had more stuffable toys, or they sold small (up to 6oz) cans of green tripe so I can feed it quickly. Oh well. I was so excited to have the Kong and stuff it with the tripe that he had dinner a little early today. He didn’t mind, lol! 😀

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Naturella.

[Naturella]

Hey, all, sorry I’ve been MIA – I had a family friend – a high school classmate of my Mom’s, she’s like a substitute mother or just a mother figure to me, very loving of Brian and I, visit Atlanta for basically just under 36 hours, so we were spending some time with her and I couldn’t respond to your posts.

It is good to know that other dogs also do need to do the whole sniff-around-think-about-it-go-somewhere-else-think-some-more-sniff-some-more dance… Males OR females. Sometimes, Bruno would get as far as even lifting his leg and then deciding against peeing, and moving on… This is particularly annoying, lol, cause he’s more than halfway there. And Bruno also dry-marks too, lol (he’s all out of urine but still has to try to lift his leg and try to squeeze a drop out). We also have tried with treats and the clicker even, but it still was taking a while to go. Ideally, when we have a yard, I would do like BCnut, let the dogs in the yard to do whatever, wherever, but on walks they won’t get to mark and sniff around. And as for Bruno, IDK, should we still try to teach him the one-spot policy, or just let it go altogether? We will try to get him to play inside before going out some and even run around and jump some so he can move his intestines quicker when outside, lol!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Naturella.