[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Akari_32]

Iams is one of the worst foods out there, actually. And the easist way to get around canned food with fish in it is to just not buy any with fish. Huh. Imagine that. Dry food is terrible for cats because of the higher level of carbohydrates needed to bind the food together, as well as it being just that– dry. Some canned foods (like Iams) can actually be just as bad with carbs. Feeding just boiled meat is extremely imbalanced, as it doesn’t provide all of the nutrients your cat needs to stay healthy. Now, if you were to add supplements yourself, then that would actually be better than any commercial diet, but you would first have to know how much of what nutrients to add, and they can be costly.

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[hamptonmeadow]

I would be more concerned with diabetes. Tke her to the vet and have her tested. It is controllable and you need some advice. Buy good but not high carb dog foods. Not science diet or any of those vet sold ones.

Joint supplements are being highly debated. I don’t know which ones work and many of them don’t. I think you may be seeing a change in food rasing her blood sugar. Good luck and let us know what it turns out to be.

[Dori]

Hi Lea J. I feel like this is my mantra but I will say it again. I have a 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo, Katie, has had severe food allergies and intolerances as well as environmental allergies since we got her at 9 weeks of age. I’ve tried any and all suggestions out there. Went through a ton of food, most of which to no avail. What finally worked for her is commercial raw foods. I like Primal Pronto the best. I also rotate her foods with Darwins, and Answers raw. I’ve tried Stella and Chewy’s raw and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw which I didn’t like at all. Anyway, I have three small dogs that I feed 1/4 cup twice a day. I do add and/or feed sardines (canned in water, not oil), coconut oil, probiodics, digestive enzymes, fresh fruits and veggies. Their treats consist of fresh fruits or veggies. I don’t use store bought treats. To many issues with Katies allergies. My 14 1/2 year old Maltese has arthritis in her right hip and also two degenerated discs mid spine. I rotate supplements as well as their foods. I haven’t found any particular joint supplement that has worked miracles. I have just ordered Sprintime’s Joint Health and Fresh Factor. Some people have been reporting that they are having good luck with these. Anyway, I think I’ve digressed here from my mantra which is: Grain, Soy, Poultry (in all forms), White Potato and Rice Free food as well as anything else you think your dog may be allergic or intolerant to. Your allergy list really doesn’t seem to be that bad though I wouldn’t doubt that she has more problems than just the ones you named. Full disclosure, I don’t believe that food allergy testing for dogs can be trusted. My dogs allergist/dermatologist as well as their traditional vets all would not do the testing. They said the tests are inaccurate, misleading and cost a lot of money. When vets tell you they won’t take your money, you know they are being accurate. To this date there are no known food allergy testing on animals that are accurate. As far as kibble goes, I can’t really recommend any because I’m not comfortable in my knowledge of their ingredients anymore. I figured out most of Katie’s food allergies by her reactions to the foods I was feeding and then comparing ingredients with other foods trying to figure out what was bothering her. She has many many issues. She just recently became allergic or intolerant to alfalfa. Allergic or intolerant to me is all the same. All I’m sure of is that either way, she can’t eat it so I don’t care whether some people say that it’s not really an allergy, it’s an intolerance. It’s all trial and error really and constantly researching ingredients. What works for my dogs may not work for others but eliminating the obvious typical allergens is a good place to start. It’s an incredibly long road in helping our allergy prone dogs but the work is well worth it for them. Exhausting on us. Oh, Spring is finally here in Atlanta where we live so for the last two days I’ve been giving her Benadryl twice a day. I hate having to do that but there is nothing I can personally do about environmental outdoor allergies. Trust me, if there was a way I would have found it by now. This is the first time I have ever had a dog with allergies and I’ll just say it keeps me on me on my toes with all things food related for her. Katie’s how I came across this site a couple of years ago and I, she and my other dogs have benefited immensely. Good Luck. If you need any clarification on anything I’ve said or any more questions please ask.

[Lea J]

I have just discovered this forum! Where were you 4 years ago?
Anyway- I have a 45 lbs rescue border collie chow mix, now 8 years old. She is wonderful but has severe itchiness. We have done allergy testing and found she is allergic to eggs, corn, wheat, catfish, rice, milk. Tried allergy shots- no difference. Tried elimination diets- she just lost weight. Tried just about every dog food out there. Even tried making dog food. Went to dermatologist who suggested Natural Balance LID Sweet Potato and Venison. Still itchy but somewhat less. (I have often wondered if this could be environmental) Discovered some arthritis recently, and has been on adequan with good results. Any suggestions for supplements, food, treats, etc for either of these conditions?

[Lea J]

Also new to this forum. Have a new/old problem. 5 year old Shihtzu mix with congenital hip dysplasia (was not told about this until recently-another story) who apparently is beginning to have problems with this as of yesterday. Any thoughts on joint supplements for this condition? Hindquarters are popping in and out-mostly out yesterday and today. Weight 15 pounds.

[Andrea P]

So, first off, I am new to the forum. I am going to start a 35 pound beagle (he’s big for his breed, not fat -_-), who is 9, on joint supplements. I want to dose everything like RescueDaneMom has. How do I figure out the dosages of glucosamine hcl, chondroitin, and msm for my dog?
He isnt severely arthritic, but his joints are starting to pop here and there.
Thanks!!

[Margie W]

My 8 year old lab that I currently cook for (tried the raw but he wouldn’t eat it- immediately regurgitated it) is on a high protein high fat diet (due to cancer diagnosis for spindle cell sarcoma a year ago) I steam veggies mix with cottage cheese and egg and then add canned mackeral. I use RX Vitamin onco support in the evening, Berte green blend morning and evening and Berte immune blend in the AM. He’s also on a holistic regimen of Carcinosin and Thuja (which we began after a recurrence of the spindle cell and that is now in remission) He’s been having issues with mucus in his stool and some diarrhea (sporadically) for the past couple of months. He’s been on two rounds of metronidazole- his poops are fine during the medication and then for sometime after. But now he’s had another mucusy soft poop. Wondering if adding probiotics would help but also want to know if he’s getting some already in what I’m giving him. Don’t want to overdo the supplements. I’ve looked at the Mercola probiotic which doesn’t seem to have any of the ingredients that are in the other things he’s getting. Trying to keep this short but my Rupert is complicated! Any help would be appreciated.

[Pugsonraw]

Hi Dchassett,

I took both my pugs off several supplements right now (not just Springtime)… I have food & allergy tests run about every 6 months and this time around something I’m giving them triggered for NutraSweet in it as well as some of the normal food allergies I usually see. I’m not sure what it is so I’ve completely scaled back to rotating in a few of these things:
organic coconut oil, mercola krill oil, mercola enzymes and probiotics, braggs apple cider vinegar, and a hypoallergenic phycox joint supplement. I’ve used these over the year… and these have not triggered anything for the pugs. Not sure where the NutraSweet came from but I don’t want it in their diet.

Just when I think I’m wining the battle with their allergies or food choices, something changes…. and Spring is here in CA! My pugs are so different and it is hit and miss with products I try… what works for one, makes the other super itchy…

I have been looking at the Bug Off garlic though… even ordered the granules but they have not arrived yet. I was just at the vets yesterday and they were trying to suggest accuguard which is an oral pill.

Not sure if this helps but I find sometimes you just need to test it out, cross your fingers and see how it goes…

Dawn aka Pugsonraw…

[MastiffLove]

Hello again, so i’ve been reading, studying, analyzing and calculating like a madman since my last post. I am thinking of going with Royal Canin Giant Puppy since it has a low calcium % at 2.287/1000 kcal with a 0.82%:0.67% calc/phos ratio. I would add a canned topper or fresh meat to boost the proteins. Also to this, i was thinking of adding a probiotic formula and a dash of fresh fish oil and if the stool is too “soft” i’d regulate with pumpkin. Comments? Suggestions? Warnings? Praise?

Now question is, considering a rotation with added ingredients/supplements what would be a good starting schedule e.i. 3days on 4 days off for probiotic formula and so on….also what would be a safe amount of for each of em? What would be a good topper high in proteins?

p.s. Thank you for all your hard work and knowledge Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Dori
I found my chiropractor through my horse connections. There are many more people with horses that have chiropractic done than with dogs in my area. Yes, it could definitely help, but I would look for an acupuncturist first. And cold laser therapy is also excellent. The local vet. college may have a rehab vet or may be able to refer you to one. What I would recommend for joint care is to get a single bottle of a few different things and try them. Different supplements work differently for individual dogs. My favorites have glucosamine, MSM, and HA, but that’s because that’s what mine responds best to.

Harper’s Mom
You probably want to give 1/2 tsp per day, BUT you need to work up to that amount. Start with just a small pinch for a couple days.

[Dori]

So Patti. Are there any type or specific supplements that you can think of that might help Hannah? I’m having a hard time dealing with the fact that I can’t believe the years have passed so quickly. Seems like last week that she was a puppy. She’s totally healthy with everything. I mean, she runs around, plays, barks at anything that moves, plays with her toys and the other dogs. She runs up and down the stairs. The only thing she can no longer do is jump onto the sofa or the bed (our bed) so I’ve got the little doggy stairs all over the house so she can get to all her favorite places. Thanks for any help and advice. I know swimming would be good for her but I’ve been bathing her for over 14 years every 7 to 9 days and she has never ever been great with her baths. Actually she hates water, before we moved to this house we used to have a pool but the trauma she would undergo when I would have her swimming with me with incredibly difficult for her so I stopped. Now we don’t have a pool. She also hates going out in the rain.

[Dori]

Hi Pugsonraw. How did the Advanced Hip and Joint Springtime supplement work out? Have you seen any improvement? I’m thinking of using this on Hannah. She’ll be 15 years old on 9/9/14. I rotate her supplements as well as her foods so I’m always on the look out for supplements that some may be having some luck with. She’s got arthritis, a couple of degenerated discs center spine, but lately I’ve noticed that the swing in her gait seems to be coming more from her hips than her legs. She’s also developing a tremor in both back legs. She had it a while back but it would only be one back leg or the other. Now it’s both back legs trembling when she’s standing still. Thanks, Dori

[theBCnut]

Hi Jewel

I try to give joint supplements that only have a few active ingredients to early or mild cases because the body eventually gets used to the ingredients and they stop working, so you need to be able to move on to something else. For more advanced or severe cases, I pull out the big guns, and this would be a big gun.

That being said, I would not feed the chews unless I couldn’t get my dog to eat this any other way. There were a few ingredients that I don’t want to give my dogs, like artificial colors and artificial flavors and a couple others. The powder still has artificial flavors, but I can live with that since they dropped the other more objectionable ingredients.

[MastiffLove]

Hello everyone!

I would love some help in figuring what would be the “best” diet for my dog. Alot of you here seem to have alot of knowledge about this subject and i want to give the best diet to my dog so he will be in top health, shape and growth so he can live a great life without issues due to his diet.

On the 9th of April i am getting my Englsih Mastiff His dad is 220pounds and his mom is around 185 pounds he will be 8 weeks old he is one of the biggest of the litter. I am mentioning this so we can have an idea on an average he could possibly weight once adult and i want to promote growth and size without risking ANY health issues due to exessive or poor feeding.

I’ve been reading for quite awhile and theres so much information to consider that i’m getting overwhelmed with info lolll.

He is currently being fed with First Choice Puppy Medium and Large Breeds (4stars on the reviews here) and i will switch him to Orijen Puppy Large once i feel he feels confortable in his new home (most likely after 3 weeks he’s been here) .

I have read on here that mixing a puppies diet with diferent brands and types of food is a good thing also mixing dry kibbles with canned food is good and/or adding home food to his meals will supplement for whats missing.

But here are my questions:

1.Should i keep him on Orijen after his “switch” has been done until he reaches a certain age/weight or should i right away start “mixing things up” to best his diet?

2. Would any supplements or additives be used as a mixing ingredient to his kibbles?

3. Orijen has a Calcium (min/max) of 1.2/1.5% as wirtten on the 13kg (28.6pnd) bag enough or too much calcium? And could it be clarified, is it per portion served, over the whole bag, in one kiddle alone and such…how does those precentage work? so i can in the furture know what i’m dealing with.

4. Could someone give me a good idea on how to proceed thrue all of this like weeks old you do this, at a certain weight (considering hes not over or under weight and such) you start adding those kind of things…so on and so forth.

I understand theres alot of factors to consider like activity levels, too fat too skinny, etc. and so i will be monitoring his weight and growth weekly thrue his first year so i can spot anything different at a certain event like using a certain type of food or supplement etc. So try to be positive in giving as much detail as you can…i want to learn and i love precise and detailed info.

P.S. I live in Canada Quebec both parents are American living here in case you wish to suggest some food brands please consider i might not have access to it other then by shipping.

Sorry for the loooong post i’m french and i try to be clear on what i’m concerned about.

[Walter L]

I’m curious if anyone has questioned manufacturers about heavy metal content in their dog foods? I’m noticing a trend in refrigerated and supposedly high end dog foods putting bone in the top 10 ingredients in their food and marketing it as a “natural” calcium source.

Looking back at the history of calcium supplementation for humans….bones used to be the norm until it was banned after discovering heavy metal accumulation that occurs in bones from livestock drinking less than ideal water sources.

If it was banned for humans…is it really a safe source for our pets? Maybe pets should be getting their calcium supplements from a purer calcium source such as calcium citrate like humans do?

What are your thoughts?

[pugmomsandy]

These are are the supplements I have on hand but don’t necessarily give every day: Springtime Bug Off, Longevity and Joint Chews, Mercola Bladder Support, Wysong Biotic pH, krill oil, calamari oil, vit E and C, ubiquinol, cetyl-M, DE.

[Shasta220]

I’ll have to admit – my dogs are almost all dry, with occasional additions (apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, eggs, fish oils, other supplements). When I move out though, I will probably get into about 75% raw with them, because I love love LOVE the results I’ve seen. But for now, I don’t have the money, resources, or space to start three med-big dogs on raw.

[Shasta220]

I don’t know much about the vast amounts of joint supplements out there, but I enjoy Actiflex 4000 (meant for horses, but can easily be used for dogs). It’s probably not the best out there, but it’s super affordable. My 70lb senior lab gets about a tsp daily, which we figured that to be around 5$/month (compared to 30$/month of her other stuff.)

I’d definitely go with dchassett’s suggestions though sounds like she’s been around the block a few times when it comes to joint care.

Best wishes!

[Naturella]

At the moment we feed Bruno about 75-80% dry mixed kibble and about 20-25% additives: pumpkin, yoghurt, cottage cheese, flax seed meal, coconut oil/butter, canned sardines, and one raw egg/week and an RMB/week (right now I rotate between chicken backs and pork neck bones).

With the amount of dry food brands I want to rotate between, if I don’t mix it would probably take AT LEAST 1/2 of Bruno’s life to go through all of them ONCE, if not more time than that. There are many high-quality kibbles out there and he seems to adapt well in rotation. He does love his raw too though! 🙂

It is my husband and I’s dream to own land and a farm one day – doesn’t have to be huge, just enough to raise goats, some sheep, chickens, rabbits, and, if by a lake – ducks and maybe fish. We would like to grow our own fruits and veggies, at least some of them. (I only have 10 fruit/nut trees in mind, no more. LoL Not counting the bush fruit/nut-giving plants.) We would like to hunt our food – deer, ducks, geese, pheasants, rabbits, fish, whatever, and know where our food comes from. So THEN, I would like to be giving maybe 80% or more balanced raw with supplements. I really hope we get there some day. 🙂

[Dori]

I rotate foods and supplements. Three of the glucosamine/chondrotin supplements that I use with my 14 1/4 year old Maltese are: Dasuquin with MSM, Actistatin Canine Extra Strength and GlycanAid HA. If your dog has a chicken intolerance then I would not give her the K9 with chicken flavoring. It may do more harm than good. I think she probably would have an issue with it. I have a dog with chicken allergies/intolerances and she cannot have anything with any kind of poultry flavoring or ingredients of any sort. The three above are very good. I’ve done a lot of research. I go through a bottle of one and then rotate onto another and so on and so forth.

[Dori]

I happen to think that The Honest Kitchen is a fabulous food. It’s not a raw diet. It’s dehydrated. You add water to it and let it rehydrate. It’s the only non raw food I feed my dogs. The Honest Kitchen is one of only two pet foods that can legally say they are 100% USDA human grade food, mostly organic fruits and veggies made in a human food plant. They other is Weruva canned foods. Weruva can no longer guarantee that their cans have no BHA so I don’t use them, besides the bha they also contain carrageen (sp?). I always keep The Honest Kitchen on hand in case I have forgotten to defrost raw. Typically I keep Zeal on hand. One of my dogs is allergic to ingredients in their other formulas. Another of their formulas that is good is Preference. All it’s missing is the protein so you an add any protein you want. It’s also good for a change for them to lower their fat intake. Raw has a high fat content. Darwin’s (a home delivered only raw food) has the lowest fat content that I am aware of. I rotate everything with my dogs. Food, supplements, oils, etc. Whatever ingredient they may be missing or low on one product I’m hoping they’ll get from the next. Also I feel it gives them a healthier gut and immune system.

[pugmomsandy]

I would say 75% raw/25% processed of some type (kibble, canned, dehydrated). Tonight’s dinner is just tripe with a little canned food just to mix in some supplements.

[Shasta220]

I’m sure you guys remember my good ol’ lab, Cassy. Well, I’m starting her on acv and just ordered some liquid Actiflex (it’ll cut her joint supplement cost from 20-40$/month to just 5-10$/month. Boo yah!). The dogs get fed outside of the house, and I don’t really want to hassle with measuring out the liquids every single day, so I thought of this:
Freeze the supplements w some canned food, then just give her a cube a day on the food.

I’m wondering if there’s a chance for any of the nutrients to “freeze off” by doing so? (They would prob stay in the freezer for up to 2wks, since an ice cube tray will hold about 12-14 cubes)

Also, what’s a super affordable and still 4-5 star canned food that I can pop in there? My thoughts were maybe Natural Balance, or something from Diamond? I figured it wouldn’t matter too much since she’d just be getting 1-2tbsp daily, and she’s a good 70lb.

[Mom2Cavs]

Hey, all….I just started the Springtime, Inc. supplements for people. I’m using the Joint Health capsules, the Tonic Blend and the Boswellia Extract tabs. I’ve been using for about a week now, instead of the nsaids I normally use for my back and sciatica. I believe it’s helping, so yay! Of course, it could all be the placebo thing, too, lol. Regardless, I’m going to keep using them and see how it goes.

[losul]

Sorry about the delayed responses.

InkedMarie, Thanks for posting. I did find the link you provided helpful. Helped me to realize more, that while it is a really scary and serious thing, but that there is a difference between being HW positive and lower levels of worms and having significant HW disease. It also got me to thinking more about using some supportive supplements.

Shawna, again, very helpful links, not just about timing for seasonal HW preventatives, but also other things. Thank you. I’ve never posted a pic of Turbo yet, but it’s on my to do list as soon as I get caught up on things. Because of the cumulative effects, I guess the advantage multi could be started a little earlier than the others and stopped earlier for using seasonal HWP. But it’s also because of those cumulative effects and the added and unwanted flea killer, that I doubt I will use for HWP, beyond using for treatment. I also noted in your second link that advantage multi is not often even used during treatment.

I’m also thinking now that it is still senseless for me to give Turbo HWP’s year round. (once he is HW free). Even if I up the dosage months to 9 or 10 months, a break of 2 or 3 months from it, is better than no break, and shouldn’t be any risk of infection anyway during the coldest months.

Aimee, I agree 100% with your critical thinking in the the case of Mr. Piggy/Dr. Falconer.
Not so sure either about his “homeopathic” remedies, i.e. sulphur, calcarea carbonica, graphites (is that actually given internally?)

I also got to reading some other alternative treatments elsewhere such as black walnut extract, wormwood, etc. Some of those seem would be as/or more so, toxic as conventional drug treatments. But I think I will start using some garlic.

Update: Turbo had his X-rays Wednesday. The vet went over them with me, and in general thought they looked pretty good. He didn’t see anything at that time that would cause him to downgrade him from class 1 to class 2. Although he did have some things he wanted the visiting radiologist to look at and review (the heart) when he comes in again, I think on April 8. The lungs looked mostly pretty clear and pulmonary arteries he thought looked pretty good. I’m definitely leaning towards a slower kill protocol (rather than the harsh immiticide, steroids, and painkillers, and the vet seems fine with that, although he is still adamant about continuing with the Advantage multi, rather than ivermectin, me I’m not entirely sure Advantage multi will be as effective as ivermectin on fully mature worms, according to what I have read. Also if not going with immiticide, he wants to get going on the doxycycline sooner. He is saying just 2 weeks of doxy. Most of what i read says 4 weeks, or pulsing it. I also told him I had a 2nd HW test done that indicated low antigen, and that that vet thought it indicated lower worm load.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[andrew b]

So I have a Staffy who is almost 18 months. She has already been allergy tested, and on a scale of 0-4 scored a 2 on numerous things, different types of grasses/weeds, dust and so on, with yeast also registering. We have also done a food trial prior to intradermal testing with Royal Canin HP and her itching really never got better on it. The main issue is she scratches herself bloody. Her neck, under her arms, her face. It’s a sin. We use Temaril-P when needed and it does help, have tried Atopica which didn’t work at all, have tried a new medication called Apoquel that didn’t work at all. Usually when she’s extremely bad(she was at the vet Tuesday, she sees a dermatologist at UPenn), she comes back positive for a yeast infection on her skin. She also started immunotherapy 5 months ago.

The worst of foods(on a relative scale) she has eaten would be Taste of the Wild as a puppy, and when the itching started around 4 months, we have tried, all for nearly 2 month periods, Earthborn, Acana, Nature’s Variety LID and now back to Earthborn since it doesn’t seem to matter.

Where am I going with all of this? Before I fully delve into trying a raw or cooked diet and seeing if it helps, should I just try the lowest carbohydrate food I can find to try and cut down on the yeast issues? If this doesn’t work, I am going either raw, freeze dried or cooked at the end of May. I was going to try Brothers Complete Allergy Formula but I’ve read it’s fairly high in carbs. Would I be better going with something that is 25% or so carbohydrates based on this site’s calorie weighted analysis, perhaps Orijen or Nature’s Variety Raw Boost, or something else?

We’ve tried so much…supplements, oils, she gets Phytovet CK baths 2-3x a week, and it doesn’t improve unless she’s on Temaril and we obviously don’t want that, but when she’s bleeding and will scratch herself for minutes straight unless you stop her, you have no choice.

Any ideas welcome, especially food related. Thanks all, love the site, been lurkin forever.

[Shasta220]

I’ve not dealt with UTI in dogs (my cat has it though. She was on meds which helped, but ultimately it’s due to the fact that she is an EXTREMELY picky eater, so it’s impossible to get anything healthful into her), so I’m not sure what food to recommend. Cranberries sounds good, but they also make various UT supplements, I wonder if adding one or two of those might help?

[pugmomsandy]

B-naturals supplements are next on my list to try.

[godzilla]

Hi. My dog was diagnosed with crystals in her urine and the vet insist I feed her royal canin urinary food, but how does that food actually help? I asked about supplements and he brushed me off. I have been feeding her 4 and 5 star food and now I feel like I am feeding her bad dog food. I am adding cranberries to her diet also. I just don’t want her to have surgery and yes, I am seriously considering another vet who does not brush me off. Any suggestions?

[enny]

Here are the latest results from Consumerlab’s tests for Chondroitin, Glucosamine and MSM for dogs and cats. 1800Petsmeds joint enhancer for small dogs and cats: only 70.5% of listed glucosamine hcl.
Joint Complete for Dogs and Cats (Liquid Solutions): 76% of glucosamine sulfate listed.
Joint Max Triple Strength Soft Chews: 135% of listed MSM.
Liquid Health Naturals K9 Glucosamine: only 16% of listed Chondroitin Sulfate.
Cosequin DS Plus MSM (Nutramax Lab): Approved
Cosequin Joint Health Supplement for Cats: Approved
Hope this helps users of these supplements.

[Shasta220]

I’d agree with the others, check with their website and possibly shoot them an email/phone call. Add extra supplements or other canned foods if it’s a concern, and if Nature’s Logic has different protein sources, then try to switch out the varieties if you can. That’ll help “fill in the gaps.” Also I can never emphasize oral hygeine enough for a dog who has nothing but soft food…dogs on canned (for some reason, especially small dogs) tend to get icky teeth fast.

[Shasta220]

Sandy, I doubt she’d eat tripe. We don’t have access to it anywhere to see, but if she’s refused all other organs we offered, I doubt she’d eat it.

I’ve not tried giving her feeder animals…I honestly doubt we’d buy live animals for her, I’m far too squeamish. Occasionally when she goes outside and catches a bird/mouse, she’ll eat most of it, but usually not.

I knew about taurine and how important it is…I’d look into buying a supplement of it, but gosh she is so dang picky, I just don’t know if she’d accept it. Where is taurine naturally sourced from? Is it an animal-product?

I’ve thought about commercial raw, but we don’t have access to it here, and I sincerely doubt she’d eat it, as she detects any extra stuff we grind in her meat (egg yolks, supplements, etc.)

Gosh I feel so bad for her though! Her pickiness is keeping her from being the healthiest she can be… -_-

[Dori]

Hi Losul. First, how’s Turbo doing and have you been able to calm down a little? I hope so.

I really appreciate that in the midst of what you’re going through you’ve taken the time to get info for me and pass it along. I came out at the same conclusion that you did but you have no idea how gratified I am that they are your findings also. I’ve been doing a lot of research also on the different HW meds since Turbo was diagnosed and decided that since I have to do something, and living in the South, I will do it all year long long.

I do have another issue that I’m really taxing my brain over. I know a lot of you don’t like the idea of HW med that includes the flea ingredient. But living here in Georgia we have a lot of mosquitos, and fleas. Because we don’t normally get cold freezing weather for enough days in a row (this winter being the exception) nothing, and I do mean nothing, seems to die. I’ve gotten mosquito bites myself in the dead of Winter here. Fleas are pretty much a year round thing. Ticks? Not so much. I need some thoughts on my situation and my girls. Do I go with just the HW med or HW and flea? I’m mostly concerned about Katie getting flea bites with all her allergies she would probably have a pretty bad reaction. Good Lord! I sometimes feel this will never end. I go to sleep thinking of all these issues and wake up with the same thoughts wondering “Did I actually fall asleep?” or has these been some really long nights. Of course, if it’s not only these issues then there’s the food issues (allergy dog to food and environment, scents, you name it she can’t handle it). Then there are the supplements. Katie has started scratching again, no change in food, no fleas or anything on her. I started removing supplements one at a time for a couple of days and it seems she’s not doing well with the Mercola digestive enzymes. The other two are doing fabulous. I didn’t know they could have a reaction to digestive enzymes. I swear this little girl is going to have me pulling out what little hair I have left. Shawna referred to Katie as a delicate flower. I wish those were my kind thoughts of Katie. But she’s so damn cute, sweet, and with all her issues she’s just the happiest “go with the flow” little girl I’ve ever had the pleasure of having in my life. Not to mention it was because of her that I found this site (whilst pulling some hair out, mine, not hers) and my other two girls have been the beneficiaries of this fabulous site and my goto fabulous/wealth of knowledge posters. Thank you again for being so caring not only about your dog but all dogs. Some of you posters are so amazing.

[losul]

Hello again Dori.

I wouldn’t EVER want to discourage milk thistle use in totality. I really do believe in it’s potent powers to protect and even help heal the liver. But it’s also because of these potent powers I think awareness/caution is warranted, and especially in regards to possible interactions with other drugs/botanicals, and under certain other circumstances.

I think the last time I looked into this, was well over a year ago. The bookmarks I had on it died with my last computer. It’s hard to get detailed and reliable info from anywhere but the manufacturers, as to actual expected half lives, exactly how the drugs are metabolized, etc. and am having difficulty getting that reliable info again. It’s also hard to get reliable studies on various herbs and supplements,

Going by other resources I think it can be established that ivermectin is primarily metabolized by CYP3A4 in the liver, and as far as I’m concerned, for me, there is enough evidence that milk thistle does inhibit CYP3A4, even though there are few studies as to exactly what extent, dosage rates, potency hard to be determined etc. on milk thistle or almost other botanicals/herb. Most sites I’ve seen, classify milk thistle as a CYP3A4 inhibitor of undefined potency, which would be usually be the case in unregulated and essentially non-standardized supplements. That study referenced in the link i posted the other day, implies relatively high inhibiting potency for milk thistle.

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html

Not sure exactly how milbemycin, moxidectin, is metabolized, but I would have to assume it’s much the same way as ivermectin, as they are all in the same class of drugs. Apparently ivermectin has a longer longer half life in dogs than i recalled, and milbemycin a little longer than ivermectin. But these, when given in oral dosages, are at least predictable as to their peak plasma concentrations, especially when given without a meal, it’s within hours. Because of the slowed release method of topical moxidectin, peak concentration times for that cannot reliably be determined, I’ve read anywhere between 8 to 21 days after dosage. I would have liked to have incorporated milk thistle into Turbo’s regimen at some point, but as of now, I don’t see how i can confidently do that using moxidectin, and what i don’t know yet about moxidectin. Because all these HWP’s are in the same class of drugs, for now I have to assume they are metablized much in the same way as ivermectin.

If a medication has an expected half life of 24 hours, it doesn’t mean the medication will be cleared in 48 hours. It means that every 24 hours the remaining plasma concentration should be expected to be divided by 2.

I suspect that most advice for milk thistle is for very low dosage, only once a day, and after a reasonably safe time period, at least a day or two after HWP administration? Given in that way, I wouldn’t think there would be significant alterations in elimination time or efficacy, However, I wouldn’t listen to any advice that says to give it before, concurrently with, or immediately after any HWP. Nor any loading up on dosage of it. Additional precautions should be dogs with the defective/suspected defective MDR1 gene, which are already much more susceptible to these drugs crossing the blood/brain barrier, dogs on certain other drugs, or are being given high doses of ivermectin, or the others.

“Dogs with defects in the P-glycoprotein gene (MDR1) can be severely poisoned by ivermectin.”
“Since drugs that inhibit CYP3A4 enzymes often also inhibit P-glycoprotein transport, the risk of increased absorption past the blood-brain barrier exists when ivermectin is administered along with other CYP3A4 inhibitors. These drugs include statins, HIV protease inhibitors, many calcium channel blockers, and glucocorticoids such as dexamethasone, lidocaine, and the benzodiazepines.[21]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Note: I think ivermectin and other like drugs given in the low dosages as given normally for heartworm protection, are usually considered safe for dogs with the defective MDR1 gene, unless other factors come into play.

The only time I would ever consider loading up on milk thistle for a dog is if poisonous mushroom ingestion is strongly suspected or in acute aflatoxin poisoning. In which case, high dosages could save the dogs liver and it’s life.

[Dori]

I, too, use much lower doses than suggested on the different supplements. My girls are all toys, and I feel that they don’t need the dosing recommendations of the jars. I also don’t add them to every meal (they eat twice a day). Depends on what I’m feeding them on any given day. I don’t use a protein booster because they are all on a raw diet and their diets are all pretty high in protein to begin with.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yep, I understand what you mean lol….especially when the dogs don’t eat very much in the first place. Anyway, I always look at feeding guidelines on supplements, but sometimes they sound like too much! So…..I always start out with a very small amount, less than 1/8 tsp. for my little guys, and go from there. I can always tell if a supplement is too much for them if they start having loose stool, or not wanting to eat their food like they usually do, etc.

[crazy4cats]

Hi All-
That Nature’s Logic fortifier looks interesting. It looks like it contains probiotics, digestive enzymes and a protein boost. Seems like it would be easier than adding all separately. How much does it suggest to add? It doesn’t show feeding recommendations on their website. Are you having good results with it? Thanks for any input. Sometimes I feel like I’m feeding more supplements than food. Lol! And I have big dogs.

[Shasta220]

I’m sorry, but I will go through the sob story of Millie. We rescued her as a 5wk kitten. I thought she was old enough to start cat food, but Dad insisted on dropper feeding her for a few days. I have no clue if that had anything to do with it, but she refused cat food when we offered it to her about a week later.

We tried dry, canned, organic, flaked, pouched. She sniffed it and backed up as if it was rotten. We got desperate enough to try “starving” her, offering NOTHING but cat food. She went a week without any food, and still had zero desire for cat food, even after force feeding it to her.

Eventually she got to eating kitchen meat scraps, hot dogs, and cheese (I’m repulsed too, but I simply knew /nothing/ about feline nutrition back then. It’s in the past now and can’t be changed – so please don’t chew me out, I’ve scolded myself enough for letting my parents feed that to her LOL!)…

A couple years ago we took her to the vet for urinary issues. They gave her some meds and she cleared right up, but it’s back now.

Her current diet is *shameful face* raw chicken legs. I wish we could some how get some supplements into her diet, but I’ve tried adding a basic supplemental powder (I added about 1/4 of a day’s worth into some ground meat), and she immediately detected it and refused.

I’m just wondering what the most basic raw diet is out there that I can get away with. I can’t try ANYTHING that’s commercial, as she’s turned her nose up at it ALL, I promise. She likes muscle meat/fat from almost every protein source, and she eats almost the whole leg bone of the chicken, so I’m not at all worried about her calcium. I’ve offered her heart/gizzard/liver, and she refused. Occasionally when I grind her meat, I can sneak about 10% liver/heart into it, but that’s it. I tried adding an egg, but she doesn’t like them (occasionally she’ll eat them cooked).

So, what /will/ she eat? She, obviously, likes her muscle meat/fat/bone, and she likes cheese/milk (no yogurt), peanut butter, and coconut oil.

I’m just wondering if anyone else has a cat as miserably picky as her, and how they manage to get at least SOME of the required nutrients into the diet….because I’m sick and tired of cleaning her messes (I thought her walking into the litterbox and forgetting to turn around was just her personality, but after doing some research, I found that “missing” is a further sign of urinary problems).

Please don’t tell me “just take her to the vet” because we have. They’ve done all they can do – it’s all up to her and what she will/won’t put in her mouth.

Sorry for being so long-winded, and sorry if it was confusing at all…but I’m a bit confused myself. Why can’t she be like the other cats and just eat some balanced canned/dry food? I don’t know -_-

[Dori]

I like Mercola supplements. I use Mercolas complete Probiotics for Pets and Mercolas Digestive Enzymes. I trust both Dr. Mercola and Dr. Karen Becker. I also supple with Nature’s Logic Sardine Oil two or three times a week. If I give my girls whole canned sardines in water than I don’t add the Sardine Oil. I do supplement with Coconut Oil every day. Coconut oil does not, it is my understanding, interfere with their diets or any other oil. Coconut Oil is more of a antioxidant. Works differently than fish oil. I prefer sardine oil to other oils and my girls do well on these supplements. One of my girls gets glucosamine/chondritoin daily and supplements from Ark Naturals (Grey Muzzle) for heart and cognitive function (that’s my 14 year old girl). Oh, my 14 year old Maltese gets Nzymes antioxidant daily. Hope any of this helps. It’s what I do for my girls. Works for them anyway.

[Mom2Cavs]

I like Springtime, Inc. supplements. They’re whole food. Also Standard Process is good, their Whole Body Support is a good, whole food vitamin/mineral one. Wholistic Pet has some good supplements, too.

[Mom2Cavs]

What you are giving him sounds like a good plan. The Nature’s Logic fortifier is a whole food supplement and I believe should not be “too much”. I really don’t know if you mean you might overdose him on something or if it’s too rich. But, either way, it should be a healthy supplement to add if he tolerates it. All the rest are fine, too. The doses for all these supplements for such a small dog should be small, as well. If you are worried about changing the taste of his food and him not eating, then you could use something else to help deliver the supplement, like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc…. to put some of the supplements in and give as a treat. As for the joint supplement, you could always get one that is packaged like a treat and give it that way, so it doesn’t have to be mixed into his food. The coconut oil would probably be licked right off your finger as a treat, and if the fish oil is a gel cap you could wrap it in something, like cheese, or use cream cheese and cover it and give as a treat, as well. The probiotics and enzymes shouldn’t change the taste of the food. And as far as him being healthier without all the supplementation….sometimes supplements can cause issues, like allergic ones, or loose stool, etc., so it is a choice you have to make, whether or not to give, and if you do want to give supplements to try to find those that the dog can accept either in his food or as a treat. I should know all this because I have smaller dogs who don’t eat that much food and I do like to give supplements. Lucy, my Mixed Breed, has a rare type of skin cancer (I believe she’s in remission, atm, yay!) and she takes a liquid maitake mushroom supplement in her canned/dry food every morning. I was very worried she might not take it in her food and I’d have to get creative, but she has with no problems…very good, lol. I also give Standard Process supplements, which are powders, and sometimes they will give a little loose stool, so I back off a little. If I feel I’m overloading them with supplements I tend to break it all up between morning and evening or give as a treat during the day. Sometimes I don’t give a supplement every day, but every other. I also evaluate their supplements at times to determine if I still need to give something or if I can stop for awhile. I also like to rotate supplements, too. I will give Wholistic Pet for awhile and them I’ll switch and give Nature’s Farmacy stuff, or Springtime, Inc. I’ve used cream cheese to give pill type supplements to Lucy because she’s picky. The Cavaliers tend to just eat anything I give them lol. These methods have worked with my dogs and I hope some of the suggestion help.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

I have my little yorkie on canned food. He only gets 1/3cup a day divided by 2 so each meal is not very much. I want to give him the correct supplements but it’s hard because it changes the taste of his food. I give him natures logic fortifier, mercola’s digestive enzyme and probiotic, coconut oil once a week, Nordic natural fish oil every day.I’m also starting him on joint supplement because of his luxating petalla.since he’s only on canned food how would you supplement him each day. The natures logic has so many things in it I’m afraid it’s too much.should I give it every day along with the enzyme and probiotic and what other super food should I use instead of this or to rotate. I am trying so hard but I’m getting so confused because their are soo many supplements. Sometimes it seems he was healthier just eating kibble with no supplements except fish oil.

[Shasta220]

I tend to avoid Eukanaba, as it’s not very quality. The suggestions of Victor and other GF foods were good, then adding digestive supplements (like probiotics and fiber from pumpkin). My boy used to go a LOT too. He made 6-10 full-sized piles daily. We moved him to a better quality food without all those junky fillers, and he went down to 2-4 piles daily.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[Codex]

I’m looking for recommendations on probiotics, oils, digestive enzymes and glucosamine & chondroitin supplements. I have a 20 pound dog with no known allergies besides possibly vaccine(s).

So far this is what I’ve picked up for my dog but I’m looking for advice. I’m new to supplements. Any and all advice is welcome!

Digestive enzymes–I got really yucky smelling digestive enzymes but apparently the smell is normal. I already opened the bottle so I guess I’m stuck with that. I haven’t used any yet…I’m letting the bottle air out.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

Coconut oil–Planning on adding 2 tsp every day to morning meal. Right now she’s getting 1/4 tsp.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-organic-certified-organic-extra-virgin-coconut-oil-54-oz-1-53-kilograms-solid-oil?otherSize=SWF035

GLUCOSAMINE & CHONDROITIN–Natrol Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM (She’s going to get 2 tablets daily for the first seven days. After that she’s going to get 1 tablet a day.)
http://www.natrol.com/p-50-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm.aspx

Probiotic–Lifeway Kefir–About a tablespoon added to meal every other day.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Codex.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Codex.

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Mom2Cavs, that is what I dislike about ordering online also. I like to check the bags for tears and expiration dates before I purchase. It’s so difficult to return food online if there is a problem. You most likely just have to “eat” the costs. Plus, it’s nice to support our local pet stores if possible. I have gotten some expired or close to expired supplements when ordering from Amazon. But, so far, I’ve had great luck ordering dog food from Amazon, Wag and Petco. I am going to be trying rocketpetz in the next week.

[Naturella]

I am so happy you are already seeing improvement in your boy, Fatcakes! 🙂
Good food, chews/treats, and supplements really do work wonders on our beloved pets from the inside! 🙂

Keep us posted on how his dandruff issue goes!

P.S. I am about to switch my Bruno to fish-based food in about a month or so, so good to know my apartment will smell like an aquarium as well, LoL!