[Walter L]

I’m curious if anyone has questioned manufacturers about heavy metal content in their dog foods? I’m noticing a trend in refrigerated and supposedly high end dog foods putting bone in the top 10 ingredients in their food and marketing it as a “natural” calcium source.

Looking back at the history of calcium supplementation for humans….bones used to be the norm until it was banned after discovering heavy metal accumulation that occurs in bones from livestock drinking less than ideal water sources.

If it was banned for humans…is it really a safe source for our pets? Maybe pets should be getting their calcium supplements from a purer calcium source such as calcium citrate like humans do?

What are your thoughts?

[pugmomsandy]

These are are the supplements I have on hand but don’t necessarily give every day: Springtime Bug Off, Longevity and Joint Chews, Mercola Bladder Support, Wysong Biotic pH, krill oil, calamari oil, vit E and C, ubiquinol, cetyl-M, DE.

[Shasta220]

I’ll have to admit – my dogs are almost all dry, with occasional additions (apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, eggs, fish oils, other supplements). When I move out though, I will probably get into about 75% raw with them, because I love love LOVE the results I’ve seen. But for now, I don’t have the money, resources, or space to start three med-big dogs on raw.

[Shasta220]

I don’t know much about the vast amounts of joint supplements out there, but I enjoy Actiflex 4000 (meant for horses, but can easily be used for dogs). It’s probably not the best out there, but it’s super affordable. My 70lb senior lab gets about a tsp daily, which we figured that to be around 5$/month (compared to 30$/month of her other stuff.)

I’d definitely go with dchassett’s suggestions though sounds like she’s been around the block a few times when it comes to joint care.

Best wishes!

[Naturella]

At the moment we feed Bruno about 75-80% dry mixed kibble and about 20-25% additives: pumpkin, yoghurt, cottage cheese, flax seed meal, coconut oil/butter, canned sardines, and one raw egg/week and an RMB/week (right now I rotate between chicken backs and pork neck bones).

With the amount of dry food brands I want to rotate between, if I don’t mix it would probably take AT LEAST 1/2 of Bruno’s life to go through all of them ONCE, if not more time than that. There are many high-quality kibbles out there and he seems to adapt well in rotation. He does love his raw too though! 🙂

It is my husband and I’s dream to own land and a farm one day – doesn’t have to be huge, just enough to raise goats, some sheep, chickens, rabbits, and, if by a lake – ducks and maybe fish. We would like to grow our own fruits and veggies, at least some of them. (I only have 10 fruit/nut trees in mind, no more. LoL Not counting the bush fruit/nut-giving plants.) We would like to hunt our food – deer, ducks, geese, pheasants, rabbits, fish, whatever, and know where our food comes from. So THEN, I would like to be giving maybe 80% or more balanced raw with supplements. I really hope we get there some day. 🙂

[Dori]

I rotate foods and supplements. Three of the glucosamine/chondrotin supplements that I use with my 14 1/4 year old Maltese are: Dasuquin with MSM, Actistatin Canine Extra Strength and GlycanAid HA. If your dog has a chicken intolerance then I would not give her the K9 with chicken flavoring. It may do more harm than good. I think she probably would have an issue with it. I have a dog with chicken allergies/intolerances and she cannot have anything with any kind of poultry flavoring or ingredients of any sort. The three above are very good. I’ve done a lot of research. I go through a bottle of one and then rotate onto another and so on and so forth.

[Dori]

I happen to think that The Honest Kitchen is a fabulous food. It’s not a raw diet. It’s dehydrated. You add water to it and let it rehydrate. It’s the only non raw food I feed my dogs. The Honest Kitchen is one of only two pet foods that can legally say they are 100% USDA human grade food, mostly organic fruits and veggies made in a human food plant. They other is Weruva canned foods. Weruva can no longer guarantee that their cans have no BHA so I don’t use them, besides the bha they also contain carrageen (sp?). I always keep The Honest Kitchen on hand in case I have forgotten to defrost raw. Typically I keep Zeal on hand. One of my dogs is allergic to ingredients in their other formulas. Another of their formulas that is good is Preference. All it’s missing is the protein so you an add any protein you want. It’s also good for a change for them to lower their fat intake. Raw has a high fat content. Darwin’s (a home delivered only raw food) has the lowest fat content that I am aware of. I rotate everything with my dogs. Food, supplements, oils, etc. Whatever ingredient they may be missing or low on one product I’m hoping they’ll get from the next. Also I feel it gives them a healthier gut and immune system.

[pugmomsandy]

I would say 75% raw/25% processed of some type (kibble, canned, dehydrated). Tonight’s dinner is just tripe with a little canned food just to mix in some supplements.

[Shasta220]

I’m sure you guys remember my good ol’ lab, Cassy. Well, I’m starting her on acv and just ordered some liquid Actiflex (it’ll cut her joint supplement cost from 20-40$/month to just 5-10$/month. Boo yah!). The dogs get fed outside of the house, and I don’t really want to hassle with measuring out the liquids every single day, so I thought of this:
Freeze the supplements w some canned food, then just give her a cube a day on the food.

I’m wondering if there’s a chance for any of the nutrients to “freeze off” by doing so? (They would prob stay in the freezer for up to 2wks, since an ice cube tray will hold about 12-14 cubes)

Also, what’s a super affordable and still 4-5 star canned food that I can pop in there? My thoughts were maybe Natural Balance, or something from Diamond? I figured it wouldn’t matter too much since she’d just be getting 1-2tbsp daily, and she’s a good 70lb.

[Mom2Cavs]

Hey, all….I just started the Springtime, Inc. supplements for people. I’m using the Joint Health capsules, the Tonic Blend and the Boswellia Extract tabs. I’ve been using for about a week now, instead of the nsaids I normally use for my back and sciatica. I believe it’s helping, so yay! Of course, it could all be the placebo thing, too, lol. Regardless, I’m going to keep using them and see how it goes.

[losul]

Sorry about the delayed responses.

InkedMarie, Thanks for posting. I did find the link you provided helpful. Helped me to realize more, that while it is a really scary and serious thing, but that there is a difference between being HW positive and lower levels of worms and having significant HW disease. It also got me to thinking more about using some supportive supplements.

Shawna, again, very helpful links, not just about timing for seasonal HW preventatives, but also other things. Thank you. I’ve never posted a pic of Turbo yet, but it’s on my to do list as soon as I get caught up on things. Because of the cumulative effects, I guess the advantage multi could be started a little earlier than the others and stopped earlier for using seasonal HWP. But it’s also because of those cumulative effects and the added and unwanted flea killer, that I doubt I will use for HWP, beyond using for treatment. I also noted in your second link that advantage multi is not often even used during treatment.

I’m also thinking now that it is still senseless for me to give Turbo HWP’s year round. (once he is HW free). Even if I up the dosage months to 9 or 10 months, a break of 2 or 3 months from it, is better than no break, and shouldn’t be any risk of infection anyway during the coldest months.

Aimee, I agree 100% with your critical thinking in the the case of Mr. Piggy/Dr. Falconer.
Not so sure either about his “homeopathic” remedies, i.e. sulphur, calcarea carbonica, graphites (is that actually given internally?)

I also got to reading some other alternative treatments elsewhere such as black walnut extract, wormwood, etc. Some of those seem would be as/or more so, toxic as conventional drug treatments. But I think I will start using some garlic.

Update: Turbo had his X-rays Wednesday. The vet went over them with me, and in general thought they looked pretty good. He didn’t see anything at that time that would cause him to downgrade him from class 1 to class 2. Although he did have some things he wanted the visiting radiologist to look at and review (the heart) when he comes in again, I think on April 8. The lungs looked mostly pretty clear and pulmonary arteries he thought looked pretty good. I’m definitely leaning towards a slower kill protocol (rather than the harsh immiticide, steroids, and painkillers, and the vet seems fine with that, although he is still adamant about continuing with the Advantage multi, rather than ivermectin, me I’m not entirely sure Advantage multi will be as effective as ivermectin on fully mature worms, according to what I have read. Also if not going with immiticide, he wants to get going on the doxycycline sooner. He is saying just 2 weeks of doxy. Most of what i read says 4 weeks, or pulsing it. I also told him I had a 2nd HW test done that indicated low antigen, and that that vet thought it indicated lower worm load.

• This reply was modified 12 years ago by losul.

[andrew b]

So I have a Staffy who is almost 18 months. She has already been allergy tested, and on a scale of 0-4 scored a 2 on numerous things, different types of grasses/weeds, dust and so on, with yeast also registering. We have also done a food trial prior to intradermal testing with Royal Canin HP and her itching really never got better on it. The main issue is she scratches herself bloody. Her neck, under her arms, her face. It’s a sin. We use Temaril-P when needed and it does help, have tried Atopica which didn’t work at all, have tried a new medication called Apoquel that didn’t work at all. Usually when she’s extremely bad(she was at the vet Tuesday, she sees a dermatologist at UPenn), she comes back positive for a yeast infection on her skin. She also started immunotherapy 5 months ago.

The worst of foods(on a relative scale) she has eaten would be Taste of the Wild as a puppy, and when the itching started around 4 months, we have tried, all for nearly 2 month periods, Earthborn, Acana, Nature’s Variety LID and now back to Earthborn since it doesn’t seem to matter.

Where am I going with all of this? Before I fully delve into trying a raw or cooked diet and seeing if it helps, should I just try the lowest carbohydrate food I can find to try and cut down on the yeast issues? If this doesn’t work, I am going either raw, freeze dried or cooked at the end of May. I was going to try Brothers Complete Allergy Formula but I’ve read it’s fairly high in carbs. Would I be better going with something that is 25% or so carbohydrates based on this site’s calorie weighted analysis, perhaps Orijen or Nature’s Variety Raw Boost, or something else?

We’ve tried so much…supplements, oils, she gets Phytovet CK baths 2-3x a week, and it doesn’t improve unless she’s on Temaril and we obviously don’t want that, but when she’s bleeding and will scratch herself for minutes straight unless you stop her, you have no choice.

Any ideas welcome, especially food related. Thanks all, love the site, been lurkin forever.

[Shasta220]

I’ve not dealt with UTI in dogs (my cat has it though. She was on meds which helped, but ultimately it’s due to the fact that she is an EXTREMELY picky eater, so it’s impossible to get anything healthful into her), so I’m not sure what food to recommend. Cranberries sounds good, but they also make various UT supplements, I wonder if adding one or two of those might help?

[pugmomsandy]

B-naturals supplements are next on my list to try.

[godzilla]

Hi. My dog was diagnosed with crystals in her urine and the vet insist I feed her royal canin urinary food, but how does that food actually help? I asked about supplements and he brushed me off. I have been feeding her 4 and 5 star food and now I feel like I am feeding her bad dog food. I am adding cranberries to her diet also. I just don’t want her to have surgery and yes, I am seriously considering another vet who does not brush me off. Any suggestions?

[enny]

Here are the latest results from Consumerlab’s tests for Chondroitin, Glucosamine and MSM for dogs and cats. 1800Petsmeds joint enhancer for small dogs and cats: only 70.5% of listed glucosamine hcl.
Joint Complete for Dogs and Cats (Liquid Solutions): 76% of glucosamine sulfate listed.
Joint Max Triple Strength Soft Chews: 135% of listed MSM.
Liquid Health Naturals K9 Glucosamine: only 16% of listed Chondroitin Sulfate.
Cosequin DS Plus MSM (Nutramax Lab): Approved
Cosequin Joint Health Supplement for Cats: Approved
Hope this helps users of these supplements.

[Shasta220]

I’d agree with the others, check with their website and possibly shoot them an email/phone call. Add extra supplements or other canned foods if it’s a concern, and if Nature’s Logic has different protein sources, then try to switch out the varieties if you can. That’ll help “fill in the gaps.” Also I can never emphasize oral hygeine enough for a dog who has nothing but soft food…dogs on canned (for some reason, especially small dogs) tend to get icky teeth fast.

[Shasta220]

Sandy, I doubt she’d eat tripe. We don’t have access to it anywhere to see, but if she’s refused all other organs we offered, I doubt she’d eat it.

I’ve not tried giving her feeder animals…I honestly doubt we’d buy live animals for her, I’m far too squeamish. Occasionally when she goes outside and catches a bird/mouse, she’ll eat most of it, but usually not.

I knew about taurine and how important it is…I’d look into buying a supplement of it, but gosh she is so dang picky, I just don’t know if she’d accept it. Where is taurine naturally sourced from? Is it an animal-product?

I’ve thought about commercial raw, but we don’t have access to it here, and I sincerely doubt she’d eat it, as she detects any extra stuff we grind in her meat (egg yolks, supplements, etc.)

Gosh I feel so bad for her though! Her pickiness is keeping her from being the healthiest she can be… -_-

[Dori]

Hi Losul. First, how’s Turbo doing and have you been able to calm down a little? I hope so.

I really appreciate that in the midst of what you’re going through you’ve taken the time to get info for me and pass it along. I came out at the same conclusion that you did but you have no idea how gratified I am that they are your findings also. I’ve been doing a lot of research also on the different HW meds since Turbo was diagnosed and decided that since I have to do something, and living in the South, I will do it all year long long.

I do have another issue that I’m really taxing my brain over. I know a lot of you don’t like the idea of HW med that includes the flea ingredient. But living here in Georgia we have a lot of mosquitos, and fleas. Because we don’t normally get cold freezing weather for enough days in a row (this winter being the exception) nothing, and I do mean nothing, seems to die. I’ve gotten mosquito bites myself in the dead of Winter here. Fleas are pretty much a year round thing. Ticks? Not so much. I need some thoughts on my situation and my girls. Do I go with just the HW med or HW and flea? I’m mostly concerned about Katie getting flea bites with all her allergies she would probably have a pretty bad reaction. Good Lord! I sometimes feel this will never end. I go to sleep thinking of all these issues and wake up with the same thoughts wondering “Did I actually fall asleep?” or has these been some really long nights. Of course, if it’s not only these issues then there’s the food issues (allergy dog to food and environment, scents, you name it she can’t handle it). Then there are the supplements. Katie has started scratching again, no change in food, no fleas or anything on her. I started removing supplements one at a time for a couple of days and it seems she’s not doing well with the Mercola digestive enzymes. The other two are doing fabulous. I didn’t know they could have a reaction to digestive enzymes. I swear this little girl is going to have me pulling out what little hair I have left. Shawna referred to Katie as a delicate flower. I wish those were my kind thoughts of Katie. But she’s so damn cute, sweet, and with all her issues she’s just the happiest “go with the flow” little girl I’ve ever had the pleasure of having in my life. Not to mention it was because of her that I found this site (whilst pulling some hair out, mine, not hers) and my other two girls have been the beneficiaries of this fabulous site and my goto fabulous/wealth of knowledge posters. Thank you again for being so caring not only about your dog but all dogs. Some of you posters are so amazing.

[losul]

Hello again Dori.

I wouldn’t EVER want to discourage milk thistle use in totality. I really do believe in it’s potent powers to protect and even help heal the liver. But it’s also because of these potent powers I think awareness/caution is warranted, and especially in regards to possible interactions with other drugs/botanicals, and under certain other circumstances.

I think the last time I looked into this, was well over a year ago. The bookmarks I had on it died with my last computer. It’s hard to get detailed and reliable info from anywhere but the manufacturers, as to actual expected half lives, exactly how the drugs are metabolized, etc. and am having difficulty getting that reliable info again. It’s also hard to get reliable studies on various herbs and supplements,

Going by other resources I think it can be established that ivermectin is primarily metabolized by CYP3A4 in the liver, and as far as I’m concerned, for me, there is enough evidence that milk thistle does inhibit CYP3A4, even though there are few studies as to exactly what extent, dosage rates, potency hard to be determined etc. on milk thistle or almost other botanicals/herb. Most sites I’ve seen, classify milk thistle as a CYP3A4 inhibitor of undefined potency, which would be usually be the case in unregulated and essentially non-standardized supplements. That study referenced in the link i posted the other day, implies relatively high inhibiting potency for milk thistle.

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html

Not sure exactly how milbemycin, moxidectin, is metabolized, but I would have to assume it’s much the same way as ivermectin, as they are all in the same class of drugs. Apparently ivermectin has a longer longer half life in dogs than i recalled, and milbemycin a little longer than ivermectin. But these, when given in oral dosages, are at least predictable as to their peak plasma concentrations, especially when given without a meal, it’s within hours. Because of the slowed release method of topical moxidectin, peak concentration times for that cannot reliably be determined, I’ve read anywhere between 8 to 21 days after dosage. I would have liked to have incorporated milk thistle into Turbo’s regimen at some point, but as of now, I don’t see how i can confidently do that using moxidectin, and what i don’t know yet about moxidectin. Because all these HWP’s are in the same class of drugs, for now I have to assume they are metablized much in the same way as ivermectin.

If a medication has an expected half life of 24 hours, it doesn’t mean the medication will be cleared in 48 hours. It means that every 24 hours the remaining plasma concentration should be expected to be divided by 2.

I suspect that most advice for milk thistle is for very low dosage, only once a day, and after a reasonably safe time period, at least a day or two after HWP administration? Given in that way, I wouldn’t think there would be significant alterations in elimination time or efficacy, However, I wouldn’t listen to any advice that says to give it before, concurrently with, or immediately after any HWP. Nor any loading up on dosage of it. Additional precautions should be dogs with the defective/suspected defective MDR1 gene, which are already much more susceptible to these drugs crossing the blood/brain barrier, dogs on certain other drugs, or are being given high doses of ivermectin, or the others.

“Dogs with defects in the P-glycoprotein gene (MDR1) can be severely poisoned by ivermectin.”
“Since drugs that inhibit CYP3A4 enzymes often also inhibit P-glycoprotein transport, the risk of increased absorption past the blood-brain barrier exists when ivermectin is administered along with other CYP3A4 inhibitors. These drugs include statins, HIV protease inhibitors, many calcium channel blockers, and glucocorticoids such as dexamethasone, lidocaine, and the benzodiazepines.[21]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Note: I think ivermectin and other like drugs given in the low dosages as given normally for heartworm protection, are usually considered safe for dogs with the defective MDR1 gene, unless other factors come into play.

The only time I would ever consider loading up on milk thistle for a dog is if poisonous mushroom ingestion is strongly suspected or in acute aflatoxin poisoning. In which case, high dosages could save the dogs liver and it’s life.

[Dori]

I, too, use much lower doses than suggested on the different supplements. My girls are all toys, and I feel that they don’t need the dosing recommendations of the jars. I also don’t add them to every meal (they eat twice a day). Depends on what I’m feeding them on any given day. I don’t use a protein booster because they are all on a raw diet and their diets are all pretty high in protein to begin with.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yep, I understand what you mean lol….especially when the dogs don’t eat very much in the first place. Anyway, I always look at feeding guidelines on supplements, but sometimes they sound like too much! So…..I always start out with a very small amount, less than 1/8 tsp. for my little guys, and go from there. I can always tell if a supplement is too much for them if they start having loose stool, or not wanting to eat their food like they usually do, etc.

[crazy4cats]

Hi All-
That Nature’s Logic fortifier looks interesting. It looks like it contains probiotics, digestive enzymes and a protein boost. Seems like it would be easier than adding all separately. How much does it suggest to add? It doesn’t show feeding recommendations on their website. Are you having good results with it? Thanks for any input. Sometimes I feel like I’m feeding more supplements than food. Lol! And I have big dogs.

[Shasta220]

I’m sorry, but I will go through the sob story of Millie. We rescued her as a 5wk kitten. I thought she was old enough to start cat food, but Dad insisted on dropper feeding her for a few days. I have no clue if that had anything to do with it, but she refused cat food when we offered it to her about a week later.

We tried dry, canned, organic, flaked, pouched. She sniffed it and backed up as if it was rotten. We got desperate enough to try “starving” her, offering NOTHING but cat food. She went a week without any food, and still had zero desire for cat food, even after force feeding it to her.

Eventually she got to eating kitchen meat scraps, hot dogs, and cheese (I’m repulsed too, but I simply knew /nothing/ about feline nutrition back then. It’s in the past now and can’t be changed – so please don’t chew me out, I’ve scolded myself enough for letting my parents feed that to her LOL!)…

A couple years ago we took her to the vet for urinary issues. They gave her some meds and she cleared right up, but it’s back now.

Her current diet is *shameful face* raw chicken legs. I wish we could some how get some supplements into her diet, but I’ve tried adding a basic supplemental powder (I added about 1/4 of a day’s worth into some ground meat), and she immediately detected it and refused.

I’m just wondering what the most basic raw diet is out there that I can get away with. I can’t try ANYTHING that’s commercial, as she’s turned her nose up at it ALL, I promise. She likes muscle meat/fat from almost every protein source, and she eats almost the whole leg bone of the chicken, so I’m not at all worried about her calcium. I’ve offered her heart/gizzard/liver, and she refused. Occasionally when I grind her meat, I can sneak about 10% liver/heart into it, but that’s it. I tried adding an egg, but she doesn’t like them (occasionally she’ll eat them cooked).

So, what /will/ she eat? She, obviously, likes her muscle meat/fat/bone, and she likes cheese/milk (no yogurt), peanut butter, and coconut oil.

I’m just wondering if anyone else has a cat as miserably picky as her, and how they manage to get at least SOME of the required nutrients into the diet….because I’m sick and tired of cleaning her messes (I thought her walking into the litterbox and forgetting to turn around was just her personality, but after doing some research, I found that “missing” is a further sign of urinary problems).

Please don’t tell me “just take her to the vet” because we have. They’ve done all they can do – it’s all up to her and what she will/won’t put in her mouth.

Sorry for being so long-winded, and sorry if it was confusing at all…but I’m a bit confused myself. Why can’t she be like the other cats and just eat some balanced canned/dry food? I don’t know -_-

[Dori]

I like Mercola supplements. I use Mercolas complete Probiotics for Pets and Mercolas Digestive Enzymes. I trust both Dr. Mercola and Dr. Karen Becker. I also supple with Nature’s Logic Sardine Oil two or three times a week. If I give my girls whole canned sardines in water than I don’t add the Sardine Oil. I do supplement with Coconut Oil every day. Coconut oil does not, it is my understanding, interfere with their diets or any other oil. Coconut Oil is more of a antioxidant. Works differently than fish oil. I prefer sardine oil to other oils and my girls do well on these supplements. One of my girls gets glucosamine/chondritoin daily and supplements from Ark Naturals (Grey Muzzle) for heart and cognitive function (that’s my 14 year old girl). Oh, my 14 year old Maltese gets Nzymes antioxidant daily. Hope any of this helps. It’s what I do for my girls. Works for them anyway.

[Mom2Cavs]

I like Springtime, Inc. supplements. They’re whole food. Also Standard Process is good, their Whole Body Support is a good, whole food vitamin/mineral one. Wholistic Pet has some good supplements, too.

[Mom2Cavs]

What you are giving him sounds like a good plan. The Nature’s Logic fortifier is a whole food supplement and I believe should not be “too much”. I really don’t know if you mean you might overdose him on something or if it’s too rich. But, either way, it should be a healthy supplement to add if he tolerates it. All the rest are fine, too. The doses for all these supplements for such a small dog should be small, as well. If you are worried about changing the taste of his food and him not eating, then you could use something else to help deliver the supplement, like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc…. to put some of the supplements in and give as a treat. As for the joint supplement, you could always get one that is packaged like a treat and give it that way, so it doesn’t have to be mixed into his food. The coconut oil would probably be licked right off your finger as a treat, and if the fish oil is a gel cap you could wrap it in something, like cheese, or use cream cheese and cover it and give as a treat, as well. The probiotics and enzymes shouldn’t change the taste of the food. And as far as him being healthier without all the supplementation….sometimes supplements can cause issues, like allergic ones, or loose stool, etc., so it is a choice you have to make, whether or not to give, and if you do want to give supplements to try to find those that the dog can accept either in his food or as a treat. I should know all this because I have smaller dogs who don’t eat that much food and I do like to give supplements. Lucy, my Mixed Breed, has a rare type of skin cancer (I believe she’s in remission, atm, yay!) and she takes a liquid maitake mushroom supplement in her canned/dry food every morning. I was very worried she might not take it in her food and I’d have to get creative, but she has with no problems…very good, lol. I also give Standard Process supplements, which are powders, and sometimes they will give a little loose stool, so I back off a little. If I feel I’m overloading them with supplements I tend to break it all up between morning and evening or give as a treat during the day. Sometimes I don’t give a supplement every day, but every other. I also evaluate their supplements at times to determine if I still need to give something or if I can stop for awhile. I also like to rotate supplements, too. I will give Wholistic Pet for awhile and them I’ll switch and give Nature’s Farmacy stuff, or Springtime, Inc. I’ve used cream cheese to give pill type supplements to Lucy because she’s picky. The Cavaliers tend to just eat anything I give them lol. These methods have worked with my dogs and I hope some of the suggestion help.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

I have my little yorkie on canned food. He only gets 1/3cup a day divided by 2 so each meal is not very much. I want to give him the correct supplements but it’s hard because it changes the taste of his food. I give him natures logic fortifier, mercola’s digestive enzyme and probiotic, coconut oil once a week, Nordic natural fish oil every day.I’m also starting him on joint supplement because of his luxating petalla.since he’s only on canned food how would you supplement him each day. The natures logic has so many things in it I’m afraid it’s too much.should I give it every day along with the enzyme and probiotic and what other super food should I use instead of this or to rotate. I am trying so hard but I’m getting so confused because their are soo many supplements. Sometimes it seems he was healthier just eating kibble with no supplements except fish oil.

[Shasta220]

I tend to avoid Eukanaba, as it’s not very quality. The suggestions of Victor and other GF foods were good, then adding digestive supplements (like probiotics and fiber from pumpkin). My boy used to go a LOT too. He made 6-10 full-sized piles daily. We moved him to a better quality food without all those junky fillers, and he went down to 2-4 piles daily.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[Codex]

I’m looking for recommendations on probiotics, oils, digestive enzymes and glucosamine & chondroitin supplements. I have a 20 pound dog with no known allergies besides possibly vaccine(s).

So far this is what I’ve picked up for my dog but I’m looking for advice. I’m new to supplements. Any and all advice is welcome!

Digestive enzymes–I got really yucky smelling digestive enzymes but apparently the smell is normal. I already opened the bottle so I guess I’m stuck with that. I haven’t used any yet…I’m letting the bottle air out.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

Coconut oil–Planning on adding 2 tsp every day to morning meal. Right now she’s getting 1/4 tsp.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-organic-certified-organic-extra-virgin-coconut-oil-54-oz-1-53-kilograms-solid-oil?otherSize=SWF035

GLUCOSAMINE & CHONDROITIN–Natrol Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM (She’s going to get 2 tablets daily for the first seven days. After that she’s going to get 1 tablet a day.)
http://www.natrol.com/p-50-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm.aspx

Probiotic–Lifeway Kefir–About a tablespoon added to meal every other day.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Codex.
• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Codex.

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Mom2Cavs, that is what I dislike about ordering online also. I like to check the bags for tears and expiration dates before I purchase. It’s so difficult to return food online if there is a problem. You most likely just have to “eat” the costs. Plus, it’s nice to support our local pet stores if possible. I have gotten some expired or close to expired supplements when ordering from Amazon. But, so far, I’ve had great luck ordering dog food from Amazon, Wag and Petco. I am going to be trying rocketpetz in the next week.

[Naturella]

I am so happy you are already seeing improvement in your boy, Fatcakes! 🙂
Good food, chews/treats, and supplements really do work wonders on our beloved pets from the inside! 🙂

Keep us posted on how his dandruff issue goes!

P.S. I am about to switch my Bruno to fish-based food in about a month or so, so good to know my apartment will smell like an aquarium as well, LoL!

[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by aquariangt.

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[Shasta220]

Sounds like you’ve already got some ideas for foods to try – I don’t know that many brands personally, so I usually say it’s safe to go with 4-5 star brands.

As for the skin. I wouldn’t expect a bath to help much, as soaps tend to strip the coat even more, unless they’re medicated and designed for dry skin (when my dog is super dry, I use an oil-based organic shampoo. Sometimes it’s almost too much though, and my dog doesn’t feel clean at all).

Some things to look into: possibly tests for food allergies? As almost all skin problems have something to do with food, sadly. It could be chicken, grains, tomatoes, fish, the list goes on. I’d try getting him on coconut oil – organic extra virgin cold pressed, about 1tbsp per 30lbs. That stuff has been known as a miracle worker around these parts! Salmon oil is very good, too. Keep that up, 🙂

Fiber additions – most people add a big spoonful of pumpkin (canned is fine) to their dogs food. If there’s no improvement in his morning routine, then possibly try some probiotic supplements as well.

[Lori]

I was wondering for those who know about homemade dog foods if you could comment on the Puppy Stew recipe? A lot cocker owners make this for their good. Is it nutritionally sound, or would their need to be extra supplements added in? Thanks!

http://www.cockersinneed.com/puppystew.html

[crazy4cats]

I also have labs with digestive issues. The supplements that I have used with success that have similar ingredients are: Gastriplex by Thorne, Vetri Probiotics BD by Vetri-Science, Phytomucil by Animal Essentials and the Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen. Good luck all. This is not a fun issue to deal with.

[ForBlackjack]

I agree dealing with Colitis is hard and it seems like every dog reacts differently. My 8 year old Lab mix has had issues for the last couple of years and I have tried many different diets, some better than others, the biggest help we found is the consistent use of supplements that help his digestive system. We use 2 things we order online from this place called askariel.com, called Soothing Digestives Relief and Power Probiotics. http://www.askariel.com/dog-and-cat-IBD-p/163.htm They seem to help a lot, of course it helps if he doesn’t garbage dive too.

[Shasta220]

I have no help to offer, but I’m just following this threat pretty much for the heck of it. I have a form of IBS, (ironically, diarrhea is not involved, phew!) so I totally feel your doggie. The only things I’ve been told for mine is, obviously, to avoid certain foods, which it sounds like you’re already doing.
I guess you could say I might just have to try eating whatever kibble/supplements that’s helping your pooch out? LOL, not seriously.

Best wishes! 😀

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[Shasta220]

I honestly don’t see why it’s so nessicary to get a small-breed food, other than the fact that the Kibbles will be smaller. I don’t really think breed-specific food really changes the formula much. I really would try to avoid Purina, even the best-rated “Pro Plan” is mainly fillers, which your little doggie definitely doesn’t need! Iams food is alright, but still not as good as the commercials make it seem.

If none of your dogs have super special needs, then you could possibly switch them all over to one specific food. I have an old lab, a young herder, and a middle aged mutt (happy birthday, Shasta!). They are all on the same food. I admit, I do add different supplements to suit their needs.

[robertdee]

Here’s the thing:

At the first glance it appears that there are a lot of things that cause weight gain in dogs, but the reality is that just like with humans it’s all about energy balance. Dogs gain weight simply because their daily caloric intake is greater than their daily caloric output. In simple terms they either eat too much or they don’t move enough.

There’s no dog food that will make your dog lean, but I would recommend you to look into supplements for example: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/w8-off-weight-loss-aid-for-dogs/

[robertdee]

All of you say that X food is better than Y food, but what we all need to keep in mind is that dogs are different. A Rottweiler has a completely different nutritional needs from a Pomeranian puppy and in order to get the best results you’ve got to constantly experiment with different foods to see what works for your dog.

My puppy was suffering from colitis and after spending a considerable time on the forums on the members on here recommended to look into a supplement called Bionic Biotic made by a leading English dog supplements company in the UK. They sell in the US: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/bionic-biotic-condition-and-digestion-supplement/

Anyway, after giving it ago colitis has gone away in less than three weeks. Maybe it was this supplement or maybe not, but it worked for Rocky.

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[SnorkletsMom]

Hi! I have read most of this site and a lot of other sites, I have spoken to our vet…now I’m looking for opinions or tips for our puppies. They are 6 months old, one male, one female, probably 60 lbs +/- they are half Golden Retriever, half St. Bernard. Their breeder fed them Purina puppy chow, which I refused to continue. We have tried a few brands, some with terrible results. The best so far has been Purina Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. But as I’ve looked around, it does not seem to be a suggested good food. I’d like to find the best I can, but hopefully not the highest price, money is tight right now. Calcium, phosphorus, protein, etc. can be confusing after a while! Our vet is fine with the Purina, but I’d like your opinions. Also…should we be giving them any supplements? And exercise…a lot or not? (Vet said not) All tips are welcome, I’ve never had giant dogs before. Thanks!

[Newfs]

Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ?