[pugmomsandy]

Over the last five years, I’ve used Amicus, Back to Basics, Perfect Balance Grain Free, Nutrisource grain free, and Pro Pac grain free. I haven’t had any soft stools on these from my foster dogs. Since your boy is small, you might consider adding some real bone to his diet and reducing his kibble some. I’ve found that adding a Raw Meaty Bone 2 or 3 times a week firms up stools. Even something as small as a chicken neck or wing. He can even have a meal out of a drumstick. Another option is to feed a premade raw nugget like Primal nuggets or Primal Pronto and Nature’s Variety Instinct has a small nugget formula. These raw foods have include ground bone and you can just give him one 1 oz nugget with his kibble meal or a couple pieces of the small nuggets.

[InkedMarie]

Look at Reel Raw as well.

[InkedMarie]

I agree with skipping the chicken. If you want a pre made, have you looked at Vital Essentials? Also, look at Hare Today & Reel Raw. You can buy them, scoop it out, weigh it and feed. Hare grinds come in one, two & five pound chubs. Reel Raw comes in a variety of ways. I buy the complete mixes that come in ten pound bags that I re-portion. In fact, I have 30 pounds thawing in my spare room right now!

[InkedMarie]

I have a dog who didnt do well with chicken kibble. He is on raw jow & he can have a little chicken.

[aimee]

Hi Vanessa,

It is a very good question. Proteins are changed when heated so it is thought that a dog could react to a cooked/processed protein but not to the same protein raw. On the flip side if exposed to raw only the dog may react to the protein when raw but not cooked.

[Susan]

Hi Sherri, I’d be careful with raw, sounds like your boy has IBD, like my boy, how long has he been on the cooked chicken & rice?? I’d leave him on the chicken & rice only if poos have firmed up, so everything can start to heal (Bowel) when they have bad diarrhoea they call it a “flare” then you must let the bowel start to heal & get better…I’d wait a good 2 months before starting anything new…
Dr Karen Becker has a book called “Dr Beckers Real Food For Healthy Dogs & Cats” she writes you take 3 months to introduce raw meat to dogs with sensitive stomach/bowel, first you cook the meat same meat all the time, then after about 1 month on the cooked meat you boil the meat less then less all along watching their poos, if poos are still firm, then just soak raw meat in boiling water for around 20-30sec just to kill any bacteria & the fat will dissolve….

Boiled rice can irritates some dogs bowel cause of the way the rice is shaped with sharp corners, Patch has very sloppy poos when he eats boiled rice, but he can eat grounded rice in kibbles…. Susan Lauten a dog naturalist said to try rice noodles instead of rice, you just soak them in boiling water for 10mins then drain water, I buy the thick flat rice noodles also some boiled pumkin about 1 spoon has helped Patch, start with 1 teaspoon then see how poos are going, then I add 1 big spoon with every meal… Pumkin soothes the stomach & bowel…
I’d get Oliver stomach/bowel settle first, the Tylan powder should be firming up the poos, the Tylan made Patches poos perfect just after 2 days but he was on a vet diet as well but the Tylan made him feel sick, he kept licking & licking his mouth, then I put 1/8 teaspoon in capsule & gave the capsule halfway thru his meal at night but the next day he was licking mouth, have you tasted the Tylan it taste awful, I also got a bad headache after making up 20 capsules, I stop using the tylan as Patches poos are firm already, if I stick to his diet….. the Hills I/D Low Fat GI Restore wet tin works excellent for Patch not the Hills I/D Gastro the fat% is too high at 14.3% the I/d Low Fat GI Restore has only 8% fat, High fat diets can cause bad diarrhoea also, that’s why I have never tried raw cause of the fat is tooo high…stick with meats that are lower in fat…

[Vanessa K]

Hi All! Doing the research to start my pups on a raw diet! My GSP/Pit Bull mix, Keisel, has had an allergy to chicken since we adopted him as a pup. Has anyone noticed that perhaps chicken allergies are only to the chicken in kibble or all chicken in general? Might be a dumb question? Haha, but I wasn’t sure if fresh/raw might be different than processed.
Hope that makes sense! Thank you!

[theBCnut]

I haven’t heard of Raw Feeding Miami. I was on another raw feeding group that is closer to me, but I really couldn’t use their products because of my allergy dog.

[Marta W]

BCnut have heard of Raw Feeding Miami?? i havnt tried it but heard good things about it

[Dori]

Cheryl,
The commercial raw frozen foods that I use in rotation are:
Answer’s Detailed Raw Frozen (if you can’t find it, please call them and speak with Jacquie, she’s the owner, and she’ll let you know who sells the food in your area. Don’t go by the store locater on their website because a lot of stores carry their goat milk but not their food and they are listed in their store locater because they do sell Answer’s Detailed just not the food).

Primal Pronto and Primal Formulas. Vital Essentials Raw. Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw.

Stella & Chew’s Raw (I feed this once in a blue moon. My dogs eat it but I’m not crazy about it. I come back to it periodically to give it a try because it does get good feed back from posters and is highly reviewed on this site and wonder if I’m just missing something). I will say that the company has a great reputation.

Commercial Frozen Raw foods are, by nature, high in fat. None of my three toy dogs have issues with high fat so it’s not a concern of mine. Beef, in my experience, will always be higher in fat than other proteins. If memory serves me, I think Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw and Vital Essentials Raw are probably lower in fat than most others. As I said, my girls don’t have issues with high fat diets. I have always contended that it is not the quantity of fat in a diet, it is the quality of the fat. Now, with that said, I don’t feed foods that have a higher level of fat than they do protein. I’m not paying high prices for fat. You have to keep in mind that the lowest % of fat that I feed is probably around 38% and up to around 58 – 59%. You have to know your animals and what they will be well with and can tolerate and thrive on. That goes not only with fat but protein and carbs as well. Also I think I’ve told you that I do not feed any food that has poultry, fowl, of any sort. One of my girls is highly intolerant of all forms including the different chicken and turkey fats that are put in some foods. Interestingly enough, she has no problems with eggs so long as it is no more than once every two to three weeks, maybe longer.

Moving on the Freeze Dried, I feed Primal Freeze Dried, Vital Essentials Freeze Dried and again, once in a blue moon I’ve wanted to like Stella & Chew’s Freeze Dried.

Dehydrated Foods: The only dehydrated food I feed is The Honest Kitchen. I’ve tried a lot of the others and for one reason or another I don’t like them.

There are, of course, foods in all categories above that I don’t feed for my own various reasons but that doesn’t mean that because I don’t care for them or how my dogs do on them, that they are not going to do well for other dogs. Katie, my allergy girl, has a list of food intolerances as long as my arm that I must avoid. Katie is the reason that I went to commercial raw foods and my other two dogs were lucky enough to come along for the ride and thrive on their diets. Dogs, like people, are all different. We all react to different ingredients differently. Some issues I have with some foods may not be an issue with others or may not be any issue for their dogs. (I don’t mention cats because I don’t have any. I’m allergic to animals which is why my dogs have always been of the hair variety and not fur). I am, fortunately, in a position that I can feed all 5 star rated commercial raw, freeze dried and dehydrated foods from companies that I trust that (in my opinion) have quality ingredients and quality customer service.

Ask away, I’m happy to help with my experiences and my trials and errors of which there have been many along the way. I’ve pretty much got all the kinks worked out for Hannah, Katie and Lola. I’m hoping that Millie and Pepper are well. Though you didn’t take Shawna’s advice years ago I’m glad you’ve jumped on board now. Better late than never as the saying goes.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
would you mind if you could give me some choices for a dehydrated food beside the honest kitchen or in your opinion is that about the best available? I know you mentioned Sojos.
As for commercial raw beside Primal & Vital Essentials any brand that comes to your mind with some lower fat offerings. i don’t think I will be able to get the OC Raw seems very hard to get and they don’t ship to consumers.
I just like to have options for them-I guess there are enough varieties within the same brand, but I want to make sure there diet is balanced overall.
Thanks so much Dori.
I have so much going on right now, it is so hard for me to devote the time I really need to research all the various brands.
I so appreciate all the information you have given me.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Good Morning Dori,
Yes, ideally having both girls on the commercial raw & dehydrated (i think) would be a good mix & as you say balance out in the end.
Both are quite expensive
I don’t think I am imagining this,but since pepper is no longer eating any kibble,at times she seems to have more energy, more vitality then when she was on the Amicus.
I don’t know, I know it won’t stop the clock for her, so I am just thankful for any tiny improvements she gains from changing her diet.
You have a great day.

[pugmomsandy]

Another great source of cartilage is beef trachea. I used to get raw trachea from GreenTripe.com but they are huge and hard to cut up (for me anyways).

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/beeftrachea2_zpsd3236fb6.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/beeftrachea4_zpsa1f2c128.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/beeftrachea6_zps6fabdea6.jpg

[theBCnut]

If your vet thinks it might be a food intolerance, then switching to chicken and rice might not be a good idea for very long. It might be an intolerance to chicken or rice.

You shouldn’t have issues switching from homecooked to raw, just start by giving him a little bit of the raw as a treat and make sure that it doesn’t trigger anything, then replace a meal with the raw, maybe a small meal at first, and increase the amount slowly until you find the right amount to feed him.

[theBCnut]

Sometimes, I make my own wet food by putting heart, liver, and kidney in the crockpot and then putting it through the blender.

Consider feeding raw chicken or turkey necks for a joint supplement. They have tons of cartilage in them.

[Andi G]

I’m looking forward to the catfoodadvisor.com too! So many sites seems to contradict each other about what foods are good. I guess it’s all just opinion but I value the opinions on DFA because they seem well-researched and don’t seem to be just trying to snub store-brands or push the expensive stuff for no reason except to be snobby.
I used to feed my cats Purina One SmartBlend for Sensitive Systems. It proved better for them than regular Purina for indoor cats but then I had to go and read all about cat foods and now I’m always stressing over whether I’m feeding them good enough or not. So, currently, my cats eat Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost Grain-Free Duck & Turkey Meal Formula Dry Cat Food twice a day and a spoonful of the Nature’s Variety Instinct Beef Canned food twice a day. They are loving it but still fat as ever! haha

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. So glad to hear Millie and Pepper are doing well. If you can get them both transitioned to raw and raw and dehydrated that there is no need for worries or for feeding kibble if you can afford financially raw and dehydrated. One of the things that I think I have forgotten to say to you is that a complete and balanced meal does not have to be achieved with every single meal. Complete and balanced needs to be achieved over time. Not every single meal every single day. If you feed one meal dehydrated and one meal commercial complete and balanced raw, then you are golden. Kibble companies would have you believe that each and every single meal, no matter how many meals you feed per day, must be complete and balanced. That’s nonsense and not true. It’s the reason that a lot of people, myself included, feed a rotational diet. What nutrients they may be lacking in one meal or with one company with their different proteins (remember…most companies will change the protein, but typically the other ingredients pretty much stay in the same realm) the will get from a different food, different company. If they are getting to high nutrients or ingredients from another company, it will all balance out with a rotational feeding protein. Two companies can have the same exact ingredients in their ingredient list on their web site or their packaging but the % of ingredients are all minimums so they will all differ. That’s why a lot of us believe that “complete and balanced” diets need to be met, and will be met, over time. Not meal to meal.

[Sherri G]

Hi there –

I have a four year old English Bulldog (Oliver) who is…”special”. Ha! He has a very sensitive stomach along with some random other issues. Oliver had to stop eating kibble at age 2 because while he doesn’t have Mega Esophagus, he was having kibble get trapped in his cardiac sphincter, causing him to randomly and sporadically regurgitate. Soft, pate-style food and a Vegan Digestive containing Slippery Elm, Marshmallow and Licorice finally stopped that issue. Going to canned food, Oliver gained weight. He began a prescription diet food (canned) exactly one year ago and has lost 12 pounds.

A week and a half ago, Oliver began having awful gas (something of note: he does not receive any “people” food) which led to extremely horrible diarrhea. And when I say “diarrhea” I mean a gushing geyser. (sorry!) Naturally, we went to our beloved, trusted vet. After two trips and some tests (blood and stool) nothing out of the ordinary was detected. She felt he could have simply built up an intolerance to his food. She suggested switching to I/D (canned) to help with diarrhea and a course of Metronidazole.

After 3 days on I/D and Metronidazole, his diarrhea became worse. We switched to a chicken and rice diet and 7 days of Tylan. He is mid-way through the Tylan and our vet would like us to call when he finishes and then decide on food options.

After researching and making myself crazy (is there anything worse than not being able to make our “fur kids” feel better?), I started reading about raw food. I knew nothing about it until yesterday, when I spent hours upon hours of reading. I am not a meat eater myself and would definitely use a commercial brand – but we have yet another issue: Oliver cannot digest carrots.

After HOURS of research, I have found only 3 flavors of 3 different brands that do not contain carrots. Of those 3 brands, Primal Formula (Turkey/Sardine) seemed to be the “best rated” food. I have ordered a small bag to try.

So.. my questions are:
-Since Oliver is on a chicken & rice diet, would/should we fast him before trying the raw food? I’ve read different opinions on it but most dealt with switching from kibble.

-Do any of you have experience with your dog having chronic diarrhea or sporadic periods of diarrhea and you feel raw food has made a big change?

I apologize for the extremely long post. Our Oliver is complicated and we give him the best care we can, following our vet’s advice. I haven’t spoken to her about going raw yet but she leans more towards homeopathic and naturalistic approaches to everything so I suspect she will be in favor of it. I guess I’d like some advice/input/thoughts if anyone would care to share.

Edit: Since switching to Tylan Powder with chicken & rice, no diarrhea – just very soft stool.

Thanks so much,
Sherri (& Oliver)

• This topic was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Sherri G.

[Ivchister]

Cheryl,

Q: What do you mean gastro sensitive?
A: She vommits immediately when she eats something she can’t digest, for eg. raw meat, any kind of fruit or when my mother gave her some inappropriate food. She ate grain free food with salmon but was stressed out when we were moving and had very bad gastritis that culminated by blood in vommit. We gave her Hills i/d after which she had a bad case of skin allergy so we tried with z/d and it worked for a while..
Q: Does she eat a grain free diet?
A: Not now..
Q: Is she sensitive to certain proteins& or grains that you are aware of?
A: I’m not sure because she first reacted badly while eating grain free food (with fish).
Q: Did your vet culture the ear discharge to see what it was exactly(yeast, fungal, some other infection)?
A: The vet said that there is no inflammation or otitis just a lot of dark brown ear discharge. But A LOT, like there is mud in her ears. I clean it with Otifree fluid.
Q: Do you think the ear discharge is diet related?
A: Yes, it might be related..
Q: Have you changed foods recently and this happened?
A: It is happening for a while now.. It started before the horrible gastritis period and I can’t connect it with anything else but food. We moved, the aparment is clean and new.
Q: Have you been feeding the same food(s)? I know lots of questions
A: No, because of the gastritis episode and the allergie reaction..
Q: Does the food have to be dry? If so, have you ever tried soaking the kibble in warm water before feeding? softer foods might be easier on the stomach.
A: Yes I have and there is no difference because she just doesn’ drink water if I soak it. She normally chews the dry food and drinks some water, she’s not only swallowing..

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Ivchister.

[Cheryl F]

Hi everyone. I’m new to this forum, but not new to the BARF diet. Back in 2004 I was feeding all my dogs/pups this diet quite succesfully, then I became unemployed for a period of 9 months late in 2008, and had to switch back to horrific kibble. I had 4 Saint Bernards, 1 Bassett Hound and a 60lb mix breed. Needless to say, the BARF diet food bill was quite extensive back then, and i had to re prioritize in order to pay the mortgage. I have only 2 dogs left now and the BARF diet is calling me back for all of it’s wonderful benefits. There weren’t as many suppliers then as there are now, and I’m reading the posts on the pros/cons of each supplier as well as performing my own research. I live in NJ and am looking for several suppliers who are reliable, have a good quality product, don’t gouge you on price and have a good selection of RMB, meat and organs. Please tell me your experiences with the various providers so I can make an informed decision before I place my order. Thank you all so very much.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
I had wanted to post to you sooner, but was waiting.
OMG Dori, I am amazed, Millie eats it so fast its incredibly.
Pepper ADORES it she got 1 whole nugget today & it was gone in a second.
Oh, if pepper can continue to tolerate raw, at least I could rotate every few weeks with the raw and the Honest Kitchen.
I am going to take the freeze dried out for Millie due to the high fat and if they can both tolerate the raw, who could ask for more, at least for my kids.
Thank you Dori sincerely for giving me a push.

Shawna if you peek in I am so sorry for not listening to you yrs ago, I never knew you could buy commercial raw-raw to me meant raw meat poultry etc, and i just couldn’t risk giving it to Pepper.

I hadn’t heard back from OC raw-i emailed the company, I can get Vital Essentials ordered for me locally, so I know I can interchange that with the Primal nuggets.

I would like to get millie off Kibble even though I am feeding her Orijen & Horizon.
I know you told me and forgive me for asking again, in your rotation you feed raw & dehydrated, I think?? I remember you saying you don’t feed kibble of any kind, i hope i am correct in saying this.
Aimee worried me a bit especially in Millie’s case that the Honest Kitchen would need be a complete meal to feed her during her growing stage, I guess that’s why I keep the kibble in.
I add a bit of lightly cooked meat or poultry & just feed a little less of the HK mix to Pepper & that’s using there protein inclusive mixes, I guess i could do the same for Millie.
I am not confident enough to just transition Millie to HK now, so far so good with the raw, and like you told me safer to stay on 1 new food for awhile, which I am doing.
Thank you so much again.
You take care.

[theBCnut]

I totally agree about dog food manufacturer being a big contributor to inhumane housing practices with food animals!!

I don’t consider feeding practices that the animals don’t understand or feel harmed by to be inhumane, but they may be unethical, which is a whole different, but relevant, issue. I, also, wouldn’t consider over 1 hour travel time to be inhumane anymore than I think it’s inhumane for my kids and myself to travel in the car for more than 1 hour, but there are limits, and travel conditions are another matter, definitely inhumane sometimes.

I don’t think from reading what is stated about Darwin’s that you can assume that they aren’t humanely raised, by your standards. Feeding cattle feed while on range doesn’t mean there isn’t grass, etc., but it may mean that it isn’t enough grass for them to be totally grass fed. They don’t say anything about antibiotics, hormones, travel time, etc., so I don’t know what the practices are.

I don’t know of any raw dog food manufacturers that are up to your standards. But you might want to check out Hare Today and see if you might think they are close enough. They aren’t complete foods though. Good luck in your quest!

[Peggy]

Ok so, new question –

There is an Amish Marketplace here in town, most everything is home made, and I mean everything!

They have a meat dept where we get all of our chicken, lamb chops, pork steaks, bacon, etc. So, I’m going to ask if I can buy some bones for my dogs.

What should I ask for? I’ve never purchased raw bones before.

[simmy]

Free range is a small part of it.

I don’t think it is humane to force animals to eat something they are not suppose eat to gain more body weight fastest possible to get ready for slaughter.

for me, humanely raised means:
– proper animal husbandry
– have access to grass and open pastures
– not given antibiotics or hormones
– must travel less than an hour to the slaughterhouse not in a crowded truck
– slaughterhouses must be committed to humane slaughter practices.

I believe the pet food industry is one of the biggest contributor of animal abuse since they are all trying to source their meat cheapest possible. We all count ourselves animal lover and most of us are participating this practice too even when we buy premium brands without even knowing it. I am not criticizing anyone though, it’s just what it is.

I was wondering if any raw food brand are paying attention any of these or they are just new members of the industry using touchy marketing words…

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by simmy.

[crazy4cats]

Shoot, that is what I am afraid of and have not tried the raw food yet that I bought. It’s so frustrating when you think you have something great for them and they sniff and turn. Or funnier yet, one of my cats tries to scratch at the wall or something close by as if he is trying to bury it. LOL! When he was a kitten he could get the cloth matt I had under his dishes to come up and cover up his food he didn’t want. He is the quirkiest orange kitty I’ve ever had! 🙂

[Bobby dog]

“They seem to be wondering why I’ve ruined the nice raw turkey they had smelled.” Very funny, maybe your cats are related to mine? 🙂

[jakes mom]

Just an update on the cats and the KBPF mix. I’ve tried the raw mix for a couple of days, so far, no go. They seem to be wondering why I’ve ruined the nice raw turkey they had smelled. Everybody has had a sniff and a taste but that’s all. Might end up being toppers for Jake’s food. He loves it of course. Will try for a few more days….

[l h]

glad your dog is doing well, again i will have yet to respond to their latest email which i posted info for above. Going to ask what type of fish they use, as a rule salmon, trout must always be cooked or deep freezed to remove a specific parasite that only affects dogs eating it. I won’t touch the fish type with VE either. Not so sure about other forms of fish, still, I would only do fish cooked, ditto with pork because of the specific bacterias it contains. beef, venison, rabbit, chicken, turkey are all fine raw.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Sam D-
I mix the Nature’s Variety frozen raw medallions with my dogs’ kibble a couple times a week with no issue. In fact, there “output” is generally better when I add in the raw rather than canned. Also, I believe that all of the Nature’s Variety raw products are already complete and balanced and would not need to be mixed with the HK base mix. I think that a few of the other brands of commercial raw such as Primal offer some raw that is not balanced and could be mixed with the base mix.

Have fun with that lucky puppy!

[Dori]

I have no input on Raw Bistro, but Darwin’s is only available on their own site through an auto subscription. They have no need for distributors or retail shop fees or retail facilities. Maybe that’s how they keep their costs in check. Also they have reduced their protein levels in some of their foods and raised the fat levels. It’s the reason I stopped feeding Darwins. I’ve never fed Raw Bistro so I no nothing about them.

[simmy]

I was thinking that too. Raw Bistro listed beef heart is the #1 ingredient in their product. But it still doesn’t add up properly. Even beef hearts are not that cheap when they are grassfed. Aunt Jeni’s says they get their meats from grass-fed farms.

Here is an article a farmer shares his cost http://www.humaneitarian.org/uncategorized/why-grass-fed-beef-costs-so-much/#.VLYAeorF_60

Still quite interesting how come they keep their production cost under $2 per pound while offering all these “quality” products.

[simmy]

Here is the deal,

There are some raw pet food brands they claim the meat in their product is grass-fed. For example: Raw Bistro or Darwin’s Natural Selections.

Their retail price is about $5-7 per lb. (http://wetnose.com/products/raw-bistro-frozen-beef#.VLXb6orF_60) How do they afford putting grass-fed beef into their products? Average wholesale price of grass-fed beef is around $3.50 – $4.50 per lb. considering their big volume purchases. Let’s say their muscle meat ratio is about %60. That brings their muscle meat cost between $2.10 $2.70 alone. Let’s add organ meat, vegetable other ingredient and all other production cost, I am going to assume it should be close to $4 per lb. without any markup. Their markup, distributor markup, retail markup… It just doesn’t add up.

here is average wholesale meat prices published by usda.
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/nw_ls110.txt

Formula 1
Product cost $4 per lb.
Manf. Markup 100% = $8 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $3.2 + $8 = $11.2 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $4.48 = $15.68 per lb.

Formula 2
Product cost $4 per lb.
Man markup 50% = $6 per lb.
Dist. Markup 40% = $2.4 + $6 = $8.4 per lb.
Ret. Markup 40% = $3.36 = $11.76 per lb.

How come they can sell grass-fed beef product that low? It just doesn’t add up unless they keep their cost per lb around $2.

So… What am I missing?

[l h]

Interesting, quick update, received an e-mail after all. Stating they use the whole carcass, which I have always thought was good… one liver, two kidneys per bird etc. Etc. blood for the chicken formula for iron, tripe for the calcium and no bone in their beef. Mentioned nutrient panels being made in and for AAFCO, and that they are as someone mentioned above expensive. Found the feedback positive, as I do know that dog food is not a”science” as the AAFCO and the food industry would like you to believe. This brings me back to my friend who started feeding her seizure husky raw food and lives in CANADA. This has helped her dog tremendously no more bowel issues, no more itching, and seizures much further apart. Most of the reputable well loved brands she gets their have NO synthesized vitamins, no AAFCO breathing down their back, and a couple of the companies again, say they use whole carcass, but do not have the bone, muscle, organ ratios…. But, the most positive is that they are test batching their food with NONE of the potato to see how consistency is with removal as it is a binder. If they do this, I may just give it a go….

[l h]

What an excellent read on this! I too am leery of this food had e-mailed back and forth and kept getting scripted vague answers, such as bone content is not important we use the whole carcass, fermented veggies and fruits are more digestible. Anyway, finally got no response when I said I found it very odd that there was no nutrient panel, and no bone, muscle, organ ratio something disclosed by most every raw company I have dealt with.

As for the fish formula and peoples dogs getting ill, I for one would not feed raw fish, and there are varying opinion, but many who say fish, and pork are two meats to stay away from in raw, dehydrated or frozen for various reasons, bacterial level and other.

Yes their food calculator is way off, but then I have found the same thing with a number of brands… including darwins and vital essential freeze dried. A food with high protein and fat GA … yet food like Stella and Chewys, Primal with added veggies etc and lower fat I need LESS of, but with VE, a richer food, which you would assume you need less of, in fact you need MORE calorically.

Hard to trust so many foods, one of my dogs has major allergies, and GI sensitivities. I had hoped to add BDN into the mix, but am leery as to their lack of forthcoming info that is easily disclosed by other companies.

On their positive side, the whole bacteria and air drying process.. that is a catch 22… any food that is air dried( think people that used to make jerky long ago not in an oven) will risk that. Even frozen raw has bacteria once thawed… you cook the meat over a certain temperature, and BDN having supposedly bone in content, then you risk cooking the bone, and making your pup very ill. Plus a healthy dog, should be able to eat all these forms of raw… no issue and digest.

If BGN ever decides to disclose more info I may try, but I find their responses and secrecy very strange… sad as it does look like a good option, with the fermented veggies and all as a better way for the dog to process and digest, rather than pooping them out the other end. That being said, not fond of the potato in it although they insist only 3% as everyone knows starch and raw meat and bone digest at different rates.

Oh, and lastly for those that feed pre made raw, MOST companies Darwins, S&C, Primal with their added vitamins the vitamin E/tocopherol mix, and any Lecithin of course are most always soy based. So if you have a dog with soy among their allergies like mine, many of these foods are a no go, one of the reasons I had hoped to try BDN no synthesized vitamins, which again, unless a company claims are usa sourced are usually from China.

Yes I have researched and contacted many companies… sigh…

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. I have fed OC Raw from time to time. Yes, it’s difficult to find. One of my not too local stores will order it for me but it’s just a pain so I don’t feed it to frequently. Girls like it and they do well on it.

Commercial raws don’t have to contain fruits and veggies to be complete foods. Some raw feeders don’t even believe that dogs need fruits or veggies. I prefer my girls have them in their diet but as I give them all fruits, and veggies as treats and I feed a rotation diet, I’m not a stickler about whether they are included in the meal or not. Eventually with a rotation diet it all works out.

By the way, how are Millie and Pepper doing with raw??

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

Freeze dried is typically more expensive than raw but it works well as a treat or for traveling, camping, long hikes, whatever. The freeze dried is typically exactly like the raw, just freeze dried. All the moisture is taken out but it is not cooked in any way so it’s like raw but not. Ingredients are the same. Dehydrated is a totally different process. There is heat involved therefore taking some of the nutritional value out of the food. Not that much but enough to no longer get the benefits of feeding raw. Dehydrated I also like because it’s great in a pinch for traveling for sure, but if you’ve forgotten to defrost their food. Sometimes I’m running home just to feed them and I don’t even have the time for the Primal Pronto or small size raw to defrost so I start to rehydrate their food, take them for a walk, feed them and run out the door again. Freeze dried is the most expensive, then typically raw, then dehydrated, then canned and last but not least is kibble. Typically that’s the way the pricing scale goes. Not always, but most of the time.

Also with this particularly freeze dried the bits are so small that you don’t have to add water to them if you don’t want to. If you squeeze them they’re sort of like dusty, dry like. You can add water to them if you want. Just depends on how you like to feed. If your dog doesn’t drink a lot of water then adding water is always a good way to get more moisture into them.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[crazy4cats]

Thank you. I think I’ll give them a try. I’ve used the frozen raw nuggets occasionally, but never the freeze dried. I guess then you wouldn’t have to worry about defrosting them. Are they a lot more expensive? Is being freeze dried better than dehydrated or frozen. Not really sure of the difference.

[Dori]

Ignore this post. I was trying to post a coupon for $4.00 of Instinct raw One Bag of Instinct Raw Freeze Dried Meal or Mixer For Dogs but as you all know, I DON’T KNOW HOW TO DO IT AND IT NEVER EVER WORKS FOR ME!!!!!!! Sorry everyone

• This reply was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by Dori.

[deborah d]

Tuckers raw Turkey and Pumpkin is not on here yet. I had been going between Primal turkey and sardine and Bravo turkey. I have two cockers on raw and wanted to find something good but not crazy expensive. So far am loving the Tuckers. Can’t wait to hear your reveiw

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori, have you heard of or ever fed OC raw?
It seems like a good for-may be hard to find though.
I was curious, since I am trying to get some back up brands to have on hand.
I noticed the VE does not contain any veggies or fruits like the Primal yet it is a complete & balanced product correct?
It’s funny Shawna had tried years ago to get me to transition pepper to raw, and I just couldn’t do it, now I just hope she tolerates it so she can go all raw!!!
Life

[l h]

Someone mentioned this food with high praise. I researched, and e-mailed and checked their facebook forum. As good as it may be in some ways, very leery as to their responses which are over and over the same, as in scripted. No nutrient panel, no bone content ratio, they just say thats not important cal/phos is. Total avoidance of disclosing things that normally most any raw, or good food company would for that matter. Plus see many dogs that have A initially vomited on food? and B how the food ratios to feed seem way off base.

In many ways looks like a good food but the above has me wondering, can anyone post as to their experience with it? More so, why this so called good company cannot provide simple nutrient guidelines when asked, or a meat, organ and bone ratio as most raw and raw dehydrated do?

• This topic was modified 11 years, 2 months ago by l h.

[Dori]

Okay, with Primal if the word Formula is in the title that means it is a complete meal. If it says raw mix or raw grind, it’s meant for supplemental feeding where you can tailor your dogs meals with your own supplements.

Vital Essential Raw’s lowest fats, I believe, are their rabbit and fish. Their fish are available in their raw patties.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Hi again Dori,
Just went to petfooddirect thank you .
Quick question have you tried or do you know the difference (beside size?) of the Primal Pronto & the primal Raw?
it looks like the rabbit & venison have about the lowest fats, I could maybe try the chicken, but for now I think I have to stay with the lowest fat profile versions.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Hi Dori,
Well, i took a deep breadth a gave pepper a tiny bit of the raw rabbit she gobbled it up -picked up her head as if to say that’s all I get??
Now I wait to see how she does-digestive wise. Fingers & toes crossed
I went to a local feed store and they can get the VE raw for me-can you guide me in the varieties that are not too high in fat-I guess i should stay away from beef.
Thank you

[Cotons mom]

Just an FYI for those who use VE frozen 6lb patties, I found on their website that until the end of February their beef, chicken and turkey are on sale for 24.99 and turkey is 29.99. I went to my store that I use for my pups raw food and told them about the sale on the VE website, they didn’t know anything about it, and they matched the price, so of course I had to buy 4 bags and will go back before the end of February and get more.

Hope you can take advantage of this sale.

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. I have fed the Vital Essentials freeze dried. As a matter of fact I have a bag in the pantry right now. It takes a very long time to rehydrate though they do say that it does not have to be rehydrated and can be fed, as is. Vital Essentials is a very good company with good products.

Petfooddirect.com carries Primal Raw and they also carry Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food Bites. Nature’s Variety Instinct is another good raw food which I have in rotation with no issues.

[Cotons mom]

Has anyone ever used this? What did you think about it, how was it received by your pet. I know that it is given 5 stars in the regular review but can’t find it on the editors choice.

[DogFoodie]

I wouldn’t feed them either. I don’t feed bones that aren’t raw and I thought that smoking was akin to cooking anyway.

You’re better off offering something like these lamb trotter bones from MPC:

https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=99&virtuemart_category_id=17&lang=en

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
I did look up the vital essentials -I saw the freeze dried tripe treats, that’s the way I will go on that issue.
I wish I could get the VE raw, but there isn’t any websites that sell it. So if i want to feed commercial raw it will have to be Primal because Wag.com is the only place that sells it-I don’t live in an area that has small pet stores that sells the higher end foods, so Primal it has to be.
For freeze-dried (if you feed that) id you ever try the Vital Essentials?
I so miss not living in a city that has access to everything!!
Millie did well with the raw you were correct-I might give Pepper a little tiny taste with her sweet potato for lunch.
I will report back later.
Have a great day!
I know I keep saying this but thanks so much for everything

[theBCnut]

I only feed raw bones. I would be afraid that these would splinter or break off chunks. There is so such thing as “natural liquid smoke.” Smoke is not a liquid. I’ve read that smoked flavoring is a cancer causing agent. I’d pass.