[Susan]

Hi, my boy has IBD & Skin Allergies I went thru a Naturopath to put Patch on a raw diet, the Naturopath would not allow any bone in Patches diet, I had to used a supplement instead… Have you looked into supplementing the bone with egg shell or a supplement like I used for Patch…

[Gail R]

Has Halshan raw food ever been looked at?

[Kelly K]

I am so happy to have found this post but so sad to need it. My dog, Tucker, is such a trooper. About 2 weeks ago my boy started with a cough, just the odd cough here and there. In a couple of days I decided to take him to the vet, just before we left he coughed up blood and that was the first sign it was serious. Our vet took blood work and did x-rays and our vet was stymied by the results but didn’t think he had much of a chance but to be euthanized. He seemed perfectly healthy! She said we could try taking him to a veterinary hospital in the city staffed by specialists and surgeons and we drove there that night. Like Lyndzy’s and Carol’s dogs, he was diagnosed with Lung Lobe Torsion. If it was a primary condition and he made it through the night, he was given good odds with the surgery. There was no other option, that or euthanasia and so we went ahead with hope and love in our hearts (…and don’t forget the wallets). He pulled through the surgery really well, was getting the best care and it looked like he was going to come home early, when after 2 days the fluid draining from his chest tube turned from a clear pink to a strawberry milkshake colour and increased from 20-30 mls to over 100. It was chyle. I understand that the situation can resolve on its own sometimes and we are hoping. They took the chest tube out after a few days and sent him home anyway – his recovery is amazing considering he just had a lung removed! But at the first visit back an ultrasound showed the chyle is still building up.

He goes back tomorrow to get the staples removed and assess the situation. I am hoping against hope that it is resolved on its own but I am afraid they will recommend the surgery for it but the results don’t seem to be great, he is still recovering and I’m not sure that my wallet can handle anymore. It is eating me up inside. Everything else is going so well but there is a distinct lack of good information out there.

I was so sad to read about Lisa’s dog – but it gives me hope that yours is doing ok after 3 years, Carol. Lindsay, is your dog doing ok?

Right now he is on the Royal Canin Low-fat gastro wet diet. However this alone is going to bankrupt me at $50/6 days from my vet. I have to find a good, low-fat dry kibble to mix with it at the very least or figure out a healthy low-fat recipe that I can cook. My real problem with this is that he is also allergic to chicken which is a fundamental ingredient in most foods. Prior to this he was on the Holistic Select Salmon, Anchovy and Sardine diet. Very healthy but higher in fat.

My vet said if it says “hydrollised” chicken protein that it is digestible even with an allergy but at this point I don’t want to take the risk. The other brand she suggested is vegetarian with soy as the main protein – I have a lot of misgivings about that due to the protein loss that can accompany chylothorax. He is a very skinny Royal Standard Poodle – 31″ at the shoulder and honestly can’t afford much weight loss. If anyone has any healthy non-chicken low-fat diet recipes they would like to share, I would certainly appreciate it.

I will take the advice on here to heart when I go see the vet tomorrow – as well as any other suggestions, feedback, etc., that you all have. My heart is breaking for my big guy.

[Jennifer H]

Do you have any holistic vets in your area? I too have fed raw for a few years and find what you are experiencing perplexing at best. I raise Saint Bernards so I don’t think I would be able to offer much insight for your particular breed. Sounds like you have tried going through the elimination process but just wondering do you feed the bones whole or grind them? I do both, some ground with their veggies and some fed whole, but just thinking maybe your little guy just needs the bones ground smaller. I wish I had an answer but encourage you to look for a holistic vet that may be more supportive as well as helpful when it comes to a raw diet.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Toby B:
I also feed canned mixed with kibble for most of my dog’s meals. I rotate different proteins both within the same and different brands of canned food a few times a week sometimes more. I rotate kibble brands with different proteins about every three months at this time. My dog does very well on this feeding regimen. He has no need to transition to different foods regardless if it’s fresh, raw, canned, or kibble; I switch cold turkey each time.

As anon101 suggests give it go and observe how your dog does. Good luck!

[InkedMarie]

I am a raw feeder as well. A number of years back, we adopted a dog who I put on raw. Long story short, after working with a raw feeding friend who was my go-to, we decided that this dog could not eat raw. She ate The Honest Kitchen after that.

[Anna W]

Thanks mate, I wasn’t looking for anti raw feeding opinions. I was looking for people who might have experienced something like that before. The vet bill education was very helpful too, thank you. I wouldn’t have had a clue about how much vets cost otherwise. My dog never suffered from a blockage. She has a digestive problem. There is no such thing as a dog that just can’t eat bones, there are dogs who obviously have some underlying medical condition that is preventing them from digesting their food properly (the food they were designed to eat by nature!!!). Due to close mindness and poor nutritional veterinary education I have to look for a diagnosis myself.

[Anna W]

Hi guys, I am looking for folks with similar experiences (hoping for solutions of course).

I just wanted to start with saying that I am an experiences and passionate raw feeder currently getting my qualifications in pet nutrition and someone who has been raw feeding dogs and ferrets for a few years. I needed to say this so nobody assumes that I ‘tried’ to feed my dog raw for 20 minutes and she has a digestive upset.
We adopted our now 2.5 year old female chihuahua at the age of 1 and put her on a raw diet straight away. No issues for the first 6 months. Then these really dry powdery stools started to occur, a few weeks later painful defecation kicked in, she was crying in pain while passing stools really bad and eventually stopped going to the toilet until she couldn’t keep it in anymore. We tried every diet tweak we could think of – more veg, less bone, more offal, more muscle, nothing changed. Thousands of dollars and many tests later (blood, ultrasound, poop exams, colonoscopy) we know that she is not digesting bones properly and passing sharp shards of bones created a lot of inflammation and scarring in her colon. We know that very dry, powdery and small pieces of stool frequently get stuck in her intestines and only come out after a series of enemas. I never knew I would say this but this dog cannot digest bones properly. We still don’t really know if it’s a bone digestion issue or food digestion issue and the bones are the only ones causing pain. When she had her colon completely cleaned out from old hard stool for colonoscopy we kept her on a meat only diet for about a week and she was fine, no pain, her stools were normal size (a sausage as opposed to many small bits coming out in many attempts). Then we gave her some rabbit with bone and the crying came back. It is obvious the bones are causing the problem (and I was refusing to even admit it for a long time) but I am trying to find out WHY she is not digesting them properly. Regular vets are of absolutely no help as they don’t believe dogs should eat bones in the first place. Their diagnosis – some dogs just can’t eat bones. I am desperate to find the answer, the vets don’t even want to keep testing – like is it a digestive problem in the stomach? They already settled with their ideas. Has anyone had a similar issue before? I would really appreciate any leads. I cannot even find anything on the internet. Thanks!

[Allie P]

I believe my instinct is telling me that something isn’t quite right, I’m looking for some outside opinions to help sway me.

My dog has been on Sojos freeze dried raw for over 4 months. In that time, her poops have gone from twice a day, to four times per day. She also had a case of vasculitis, cause unknown. Other than those two things (with the vasculitis potentially not even food related), she looks healthy. Eyes, ears, skin, coat, energy, all good.

What’s been nagging at me though is that Sojos is primarily plant based, although meat is the first ingredient, there is clearly more plant matter than meat in the bag. Years ago, she was getting The Honest Kitchen, which also seems mostly plant based, and on both foods she dropped weight to the point where it worried me. She doesn’t seem to have lost muscle mass, but her tuck up and ribs have become a lot more pronounced. That could just be me doing a bad job with portioning her meals though – after all its not as simple as just scooping a cup of kibble with this stuff.

I’ve been thinking about transitioning to Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Frozen, which seems to be mostly meat content. For some reason though something is holding me back and I’m in a weird in between state of worrying that her current food is not meeting her needs but also that switching foods might for some reason be the wrong thing to do. At this moment, I’m resolving to find a canine nutritionist to help me. My dog is going to be ten years old in a couple of months, and keeping her healthy and thriving is on my mind to the point of obsession.

If you people want to weigh in your opinions on plant content vs. meat content, or anything else you think might be helpful, I would so appreciate it.

[Jenn H]

Christopher E
The “scientifically empirical” evidence that humans and dogs are not meant to eat plant only diets is obvious (or should be). Neither have rumens or multiple stomachs like animals that are meant to eat plant only diets (cows).
Humans and dogs are omnivores. Not herbivores.
There’s usually nothing wrong with adding more plants to a dog’s diet, but it makes absolutely no sense and there is absolutely no good reason to feed a dog a plant only diet.
What often happens to people who are vegan long enough is they begin to self-cannibilize.
That said I also don’t think it’s the best idea to feed a strictly raw diet either. Domesticating canines has made them different from wild canines. Some can handle raw just fine and others cannot handle a lot. I have dogs that will catch & eat whatever they come across outside w/o issue and a dog that will end up w/ diarrhea if he does that.
If I were to feed a fad diet to my animals it has to have scientific evidence to back up its claims and agree with their particular system.
No matter what animal protein will be part of that diet because it is what they as omnivores require.

[Christopher E]

What most are failing to realize is that what your dogs ancestors ate is completely irrelevant.

Unless you are feeding your dogs raw food scraps, you have already altered their diet from what you are arguing is “natural,” i.e. What it was between 15k years and maybe a century ago.

But, again, that is irrelevant, the point is that numerous studies have shown that high levels of proteins grow cancer cells… and every dog in America is subject to higher and higher levels of carcinogens than the previous generation. Carcinogens are everywhere in the modern world.

That dogs have always had meat as the main component of their diet in not a valid argument. As myself and others have pointed out, it is entirely possible to provide a complete and balanced diet without animal products.

For anyone who has said that animal product free, vegan diets have not been proven to be healthy in humans or dogs in the long term… you clearly have not done your research because the studies are out there.

I am no longer a vegan. I tried to do it for a while for health reasons, not out of feeling sad for animals (though it does make me sad to think about how they are treated and slaughtered just for our enjoyment). Unfortunately, I love meat too much though. Sorry.

But when it comes to my dog, she is still a vegan. I don’t feed her animal products (except for the ocassional filet mignon scrapes I give her) because I believe that she is healthier and will live longer on a nearly entirely vegan diet. My opinions have been extrapolated from decades of research findings.

There is not any SCIENTIFICALLY EMPIRICAL study that has shown that humans or dogs need meat as part of their diet to be healthy and whole.

Look back over my numerous post on this thread, going back to the first post, if you doubt me.

There is nothing cruel or innately wrong about not feeding your dog meat if you are providing a complete and balanced diet (all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and nutrients). Arguing that’s it’s cruel because it is not in their nature is ridiculous. They are dogs for Christ sake. Non of this was “in their nature” when we first began domesticating them (wolves) 15k years ago. Just like our children, we have to do for them what we believe is best for them based on the information we have available… not whatever is in their nature… which, honestly is a completely arbitrary statement.

[Bag of Opals]

I know there’s something with raw chicken and salmonella, but I don’t recall anything about pork. Is there a reason you stay away from it? Don’t like the stuff myself, unless it’s bacon, but the dogs go bonkers for pork sausage.

Anyway, my first reaction to your post was to be grossed out and wonder what on earth you’re thinking, but really, this is quite fascinating. I fully agree that handling matters. Like anon101 said, more time and more things done means more chance of something going wrong. What’s your opinion on ready-ground meat? It would be easier for me to work with, but I don’t want it if it’s going to harm my furbaby. I’m not sure I’d trust a grocery store, but what if I was able to get a butcher to do it?

I cant remember which state MA is (Maryland?), but I hope that law gets passed! Cage free is so much better for both human and animal. I don’t need a study to tell me that. Good luck!

[Mary V]

Kirstie M… I guess, the best reason I can think of to feed sardines is because they are so nutrient dense. High quality protein. Bones and “guts” intact – also one comment endorses feeding raw sardines, but I have no idea where to get them on a consistent basis. Freeze dried might be a good option:http://www.mycanadianpets.ca/gpage3.html.

I’m getting an Irish Setter puppy in a few weeks and I will be supplementing her kibble diet with some sardines, as well as some lightly steamed vegetables (http://dogaware.com/articles/dwveggies.html) and a little fruit. I also am thinking I will add dehydrated Green Tripe: http://ivcjournal.com/raw-green-tripe/.

I think you should relax. Even dogs are only fed med-high quality kibble seem to do just fine. I have a 13 year old Aussie bitch who’s eaten mostly Purina One dog food all of her life. She has been virtually problem free health wise, and still acts like a much younger dog. I’ve moved her to a grain free of late, and she likes it better and continues to do very well.

Hope this is of use to you.

[Cannoli]

Hi Bag of Opals,

It depends on how the animal was raised and afterwards how it’s meat was handled.. I eat my meat raw in the inside and been doing that for years and years with no issues. Hence my dog gets raw beef and bison. I also eat a raw egg in my smoothie for years…Again no issue found. For fish I only eat sushi raw grade fish and only feed that type to my dog otherwise he gets grilled fish

On the other hand I don’t eat raw chicken or pork so I don’t bother to feed those meats to my dog raw.

Here in MA we will be voting a law on election day called cage free produce. Basically mandating that cows, chickens, etc to be raise cage free. Apparently there is overwhelming scientific evidence to demonstrate that cage free animals have a much lower instance of being infected by Salmonella

[SHERRI O]

Would I be able to get the recipe that you are using for your giant breed dogs? We have our first mastiff ever, and I would like to feed him raw food, like we do for our Maine Coon cats! We have a recipe for the cats, using raw meat, vitamins, minerals, etc that is what our breeder used. We freeze it in plastic bowls, the same way you do, it sounds like. But the mastiff pups breeder just used dry food, and I CANNOT find a real recipe anywhere for the giant breed of mastiffs! St Bernards are pretty close in size, and in the same family, so I imagine the needs would be the same. Thank you so much for any direction in this search!

[anonymous]

The longer stuff is dead and the more things that are done to it, the more likely it is to be contaminated. Simple enough?
Unless it is cooked first. Consult a veterinarian/specialist for a more detailed explanation.

My dog ended up at the emergency vet times 2 due to finely ground up bone causing obstructions in the intestinal tract.
Another dog broke a tooth (not a clean break) and needed dental surgery (extraction) after gnawing on a raw meaty bone.
Another one had vomiting and diarrhea which appeared to be related to the consumption of raw food (chicken, steak) not ground.

Believe what you want, you already have your mind made up. I am not here in a professional capacity. People are just offering their opinions. Take it or leave it.

[Bag of Opals]

Anon101: Your first link is interesting, but I don’t understand maths and need it all explained like I’m five. I also don’t feel that it answers my main question: *why* is ground supposedly worse? It’s not like the grinding process magically creates bacteria.

I understand the risk vs benefit of feeding raw. Handling the stuff is gross, but I want what’s best for my little girl. You mentioned raw landed you in the emergency vet-what exactly were you feeding? Raw can be best, but also worst if not done right.

Crazy4cats: Your suggestions are great, but being Aussie, pounds and ounces mean little to me. Does the website do conversions? I don’t need to do homemade right now since I get extra from my parents, but I might look at it when the time comes that I do. I have a local butcher, so I’m possibly ahead of the game already.

[anna j]

This is an old thread, do b now I am assuming everything went well. I would feed raw food. Raw offal, meat, meaty bones. You can cheaply do so.
and also if you buy meat for yourself, buy a little bit of of her and her puppies.

I have mastiff and bully type dogs. They eat raw a a time. No problems. Our vet still plays a part, but but a consultant. Our dogs do not get sick,much.

[Cannoli]

Since Orijen is a high protein kibble your pup may be able to handle raw. I like for online services Miami Raw, Hare Today Gone Tomorrow, and Real Raw since their beef and bison are grass fed and organic.

good luck

[tonkasdad]

Well, here’s the thing. If I did raw, I would want to do it through an online service like reel raw or something like that.

[Cannoli]

My pup liked Orijen but I switched him to half raw half home cooked about 6 months ago.

I gave up on kibble. At the end of the day Orijen is expensive stale kibble that has sat on shelf for weeks. At the price you pay for Orijen you can make your own dog food

I only feed my pup raw organic meat or bison or tripe every other protein source I cook for him. Raw Chicken, pork, and fish scare me so I cook those. If you do the research there are plenty of organic supplements that you can provide to balance your meal. Heck you can even make your own organic supplements if you have a good blender.

Good luck

[Pam G]

On that 27 year old dog – I have nine small Poodle mutts romping around my fenced one acre lot in a ritzy subdivision and they find it against their ethics to allow ANY chipmunk on the property. Their solution is to catch and kill those chipmunks and, yep, a fair number of the critters inevitably end up as dog lunch.

If Poodle mutts can catch little varmints as mine do, you bet your britches a large, quick dog like the one that lived to be 27 could do the same and more. Maybe Vegetable Mama believed her darling was living only on lentils and rice but if that dog had access to the great outdoors, the chances are excellent the dog was supplementing that mush with mice, gophers, chipmunks, rabbits and whatever else in the way of meat that hopped across his path.

The other point you Vegetable People are missing is your insistence that as omnivores dogs can live strictly on a vegan diet without meat because they aren’t true carnivores. I will point out that if that is true, then they should be able to live off RAW vegetable matter, RAW grains, RAW beans, raw fruit, NONE OF IT COOKED. That, of course, would be the natural state of affairs omnivores would face. And I notice all you Vegetable People feed your mutts either cooked extruded dog food or cooked mixtures and mushes of various sorts.

On the other hand, dogs can lived quite healthily on a balance of meat, organ meat, bones with the occasional addition of vegetable matter. Heck, I know one hunt that used to feed their hounds by shooting an old horse or cow out in the back of the exercise paddock and letting the pack eat it down, picking up the skeletal remains and pieces of hide before leading another old cow or horse out there for the next week’s feeding.

THAT is the natural diet of dogs. As every other reasonably intelligent dog person on this forum has stated, look at your dog’s teeth. They sure as heck would never be mistaken for the teeth of a herbivore, would they? No way, because dogs are carnivores but can subsist on other stuff if it comes down to living or starving to death.

Either way, as vegans are so against anything that eats meat, why the heck do you guys even own carnivorous pets to start with? I would think dogs and cats would make you recoil in horror and send you racing to buy a rabbit or hamster – beasts that share your ideals of eating only plant material.

[S G]

Hey everybody, i just remembered something about my Shitzu (who passed away), okay i told you all that the colonoscopy confirmed severe inflammatory bowel disease and vet said he had months to live and we changed him to a raw diet and he lived another 8 years anyway, he craved coconut oil, we gave it to him as a treat, his body knew he needed it and i have read hat coconut oil kills parasites included giardia, so I’m going to see if my new rescue likes it as a treat. Anyway just wanted to pass that along and if anybody else tries it for diarrhea from giardia, lets all report back with results.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Bag of Opals-
I make a homemade meal for my two dogs now and then using a recipe I formulated on balanceit.com. I use ground beef that I buy human grade at the grocery store. (Costco, of course) The ingredients also include rice, veggies, and applesauce. Then, I add the BalanceIt supplement to make sure it has all the necessary minerals and vitamins. I forgot to mention that it is all cooked, not raw. They love it!
I’ve tried a few premixes that they also liked, but did not usually digest the ingredients very well. The site has free formulas and is run by a veterinary community. They, however, do not recommend feeding raw. Give it a try if you are interested in making a cooked homemade meal!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by crazy4cats.

[anonymous]

Also: “Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food”.

Excerpt from:https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/

[anonymous]

http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

I tried raw a few years ago and ended up at the emergency vet X 2. The above link gives a brief explanation as to why ground meats are not recommended. The diet is a few years old and I don’t agree with a lot of it, but then, I am not a veterinarian.

I now believe mostly in science based veterinary medicine. This site has been very helpful to me http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

[SummerRainAussies]

I wont touch anything that has any relation to Purina. I personally don’t understand why its still on editors choice list. I feed raw and Now Fresh. No one can beat the company “PetCurean”.

[Bag of Opals]

At risk of looking ridiculous, I would like to inquire if there are contaminants found in ground beef that aren’t found in other such meats. I’m asking because I’ve been reading the comments on reviews, and come across several under the raw foods saying one shouldn’t feed their dog ground beef.

Why beef, and why ground? Is there something wrong with this specifically, or is it just the go-to example when advising people to feed a balanced diet instead of throwing any old thing at their pooch? I’m confused.

Another quick question: What do the more knowledgeable folks think of the grain free and puppy/adult premixes listed here?
http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/category/products/complete-mix/

[T]

I had a similar problem when feeding my dogs “grain-free” food that still had a LOT of plant material in it from potatoes, peas and various starches. Stools were much larger and more frequent. My dogs now eat a raw food that has only a little plant material and their stools are tiny compared to before.

Most “grain free” kibble replaces the grain with other plant-based calories like peas, potato, sweet potato, lentils, beans, etc. Dogs don’t seem to digest a lot of this stuff as well as one might expect!

Tabitha (Dr. Thompson)

[tonkasdad]

Have you tried their pre measured service ? I was thinking about starting my dog on raw and using that service.

[S G]

agreed, there are a lot of vets who listen to your concerns, and will prescribe based on your knowledge of the dogs symptoms first rather than what can be a false negative fecal. change to a vet who listens to your concerns and who you feel comfortable with. Antibiotics don’t have to be the first option unless there is a life-threatening infection, many dogs can get over an over abundance of bad bacteria with change of diet and lots of probiotics and mastic gum is also used to heal the intestinal tract too. because my shitzu had severe inflammatory bowel disease that is what a holistic vet had to prescribe (mastic gum) along with raw diet, probiotics. i found the mastic gum a savior for my Banjo because he was lethargic and very ill too but wouldn’t use it for a dog who is acting normal other than the diarrhea. Don’t let the diarrhea go on for long as was said by others he will get sicker and sicker because he will become dehydrated and not absorbing enough nutrients, therefore you might consider changing the brand of the slippery elm or increasing the dosage to firm up that stool soon.

[tonkasdad]

Hey all! I’ve got a 4 year old king charles spaniel. He is currently on orijen dog food. Orijen is the ONLY kibble he will eat. When I say only, I mean only. I’ve tried many other brands but he is reluctant to eat them. But with Orijen, he literally waits by his bowl each morning waiting for it. So, I was debating about putting him on a raw diet. Kinda weighing out the pros and cons. But if he is eating orijen, and likes it, I don’t know if I should or not. I’d like to hear some feedback from people who have had their dogs on the raw diet, before I dive in. Also is it even worth switching to raw if he likes Orijen. Thanks!

[S G]

I would go out and buy a guaranteed potency brand of Slippery Elm. Slippery Elm will firm up your dog’s stool, so either you’re not using enough or it’s not a guaranteed potency brand. Unfortunately there are many herbs on the market and they are ‘not’ regulated so many have been found to not contain what is stated on the bottle. Since your not sure your pup has a protozoa how can anybody tell you when his stool will firm up? It could be an over abundance of bad bacteria. Plus if the slippery elm isn’t soothing the tummy and firming up the stool then diarrhea could continue even if the cause is corrected as the damage to the lining of the intestinal system needs to be repaired too along with a modified diet and protiobics. It is very tricky, possibly too much damage has been done to the intestinal lining which was what happened with my shitzu and the only thing that helped him was also changing him to a raw diet, but his damage was extreme and verified through an endoscopy (which was very expensive test), so vets are good for something, they help diagnose the extent of the problem. BTW: my vet was shocked that my shitzu had severe inflammatory bowel disease, i kept telling our vet something was horribly wrong with my dog, they dismissed my concern because the dog was always happy when he went on an outing even to the vet, he’d act happy their but at home curl up in a tight ball and vomit/have soft stools with mucous at home and never move, i’d even have to carry him out to pee/poo. I since changed vets and have one that listens to me, as i know the dog best.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by S G.

[S G]

maybe/maybe not depending on how bad it is, here is a story so you understand……it’s a horrible battle if the dog as inflammatory bowel disease. years ago my shitzu was so sick, his stools had mucus and were soft, he curled up in a tight ball and laid around all the time, he was restless at night, so finally i spent a ton of money an a colon and endoscopy because the vet did NOT believe me and tons of stools tests were done. The results came back and the vet was shocked – SEVERE inflammatory bowel disease. They told me he wouldn’t live more than 6 months. So i contacted a holistic vet and changed his diet to RAW and holistic supplements, what did I have to loose, it took 18 months before his gut healed and even then he still had bouts if i ever gave him a snack. All he could tolerate was RAW, it was a BIG hassle to feed raw and HUGE expense including the supplements, but it saved his life and he lived another 8 years, the first of those 8 years were NOT easy. He was my best friend, I can’t believe all i did for him, but I loved him so much. He finally passed 3 months ago (from a stroke from tooth infection, yet i scaled his teeth twice a month just not far enough under the gum line) and I’m still grieving, he meant the world to me.

[NOSH]

Yes, I have been using slippery elm since the beginning and am hopeful that it will soothe the digestive tract and help it to heal. I can get her to eat it most of the time and if I put a bit of raw honey in it she like it all the more. Slippery elm won’t help bulk up the stools if it is giardia or cocicida…..and so this is why I believe it is one or the other or both. I’m using raw goat milk yogurt to help the digestive tract and this is helping to add nutrients as well. This is such a tough battle for just a little bitty girl and it’s really bringing the vibrations down in the whole household. Will this cure the overgrowth of bacteria if that is the case?

[anonymous]

Food allergies are rare. Food sensitivities usually result in GI disturbances such as vomiting and diarrhea. Environmental allergies usually result in pruritus (itching).

I would go by the recommendations of the veterinarian that examined the dog. Prednisone and such are necessary for short periods to stop the suffering and prevent skin infections. Make an appointment with a board certified veterinary dermatologist asap.
Avoidance doesn’t work, many allergens are air-borne and present all year round indoors and outdoors.
Don’t be fooled by mail-in saliva and hair tests to identify food sensitivities. They tend to be scams and are not diagnostic tools.
You can try frequent bathing with a shampoo such as Malaseb it may help a little but it works best in conjunction with other treatments prescribed by the dermatologist.
Air purifiers and dehumidifiers didn’t do anything to help my dog, gave that stuff to the Goodwill. Homeopathic remedies were a waste of money in my experience.
Have you tried the search engine here for “allergies”, this subject comes up at least once a week.

Hope this helps:

By Klaus Loft, DVM
Angell Dermatology Service

Anyone who suffers debilitating environmental allergies tied to changing seasons, pet dander or household dust mites knows first-hand the misery of a scratchy throat, itchy eyes or painful rashes.

Not everyone knows, however, that our pets can experience similar allergic reactions — and other very bothersome dermatological issues. But our pets need not suffer in silence. Modern veterinary science has evolved such that advanced, comprehensive treatments are now available to treat a range of skin conditions.

Top pet dermatological issues

Our four-legged friends suffer from some of the same skin issues as we do — and several that we do not. The most common conditions we see at Angell include:

•Parasites, such as mites, fleas and mange (scabies)
•Infectious diseases, such as Staphylococcal pyoderma (“Staph”) skin infections, yeast and fungal infections and skin fold infections
•Systemic diseases, such as autoimmune diseases
•Skin cancer, such as Squamous cell carcinoma, cutaneous lymphoma, Mast cell tumors
•Allergies, such as flea allergy dermatitis, adverse food reactions, environmental allergies, etc.

All of these conditions can become serious and, if untreated, dramatically reduce quality of life. But the tremendous strides made in veterinary innovation, however, is very good news for our pets. Specifically, the testing and treatments for allergies now rivals human healthcare in its sophistication, quality of care and long-term health outcomes.

Unlike humans, dogs and cats cannot tell us about their dermatological health issues. So we as pet owners must look for the signs. The most common indicators that a pet is suffering from some kind of allergy involve frequent episodes of ear infections, red raised or open sores on the skin, constant licking or biting of paws or groin — sometimes causing wounds that will not go away.

Allergies present a particular challenge because there can be hundreds (even thousands) of potential allergens that impact pet health, from foods to pollen from grasses, weeds, trees, dust mites and more. Today’s specialty veterinary hospitals have access to the very latest diagnostic tests to get to the bottom of what’s ailing our pet. Among these tests is the Intra Dermal Test (IDT).

IDT is generally considered the gold standard of testing for identifying allergens that cause pets to suffer from chronic skin and/or ear diseases. IDT involves injections of a series of concentrated allergens into the skin to determine which of them generate allergic reactions in a given animal. The use of fluorescein — a chemical that illuminates the inflammation caused by the injected allergens in order to visualize the strength of individual reactions — is key to accurately diagnosing pet allergies, and is just one of the many ways veterinarians use new technologies to improve care and diagnostics.

The results of IDT (as well as a review of the pet’s medical history) can then inform comprehensive immunotherapy treatments to relieve suffering. Veterinary dermatologists rely on IDT to build customized treatment plans for patients called Allergen Specific Immuno Therapy or “ASIT” for short.

ASIT involves a series of injections specifically created for the allergic animal’s skin. These injections, of diluted allergens, are designed to make a pet less sensitive to their allergens over time. In most cases these injections must be continued for life to reduce symptoms, but they are highly effective. Seventy to 90 percent of pets experience a reduction in symptoms as a result of ASIT treatment. These treatments can be delivered even more easily via droplets under the tongue, perfect for pet owners who are squeamish about giving injections to their pet.

This treatment is very new to the North American field of medicine (both human and veterinary) and underscores just how far innovation in veterinary medicine has come.

When it’s time to see the vet

Many pet owners are understandably concerned about taking their animals to the veterinarian because the cost (to say nothing of the fear some animals experience when going do the doctor) may outweigh any perceived reduction in suffering. To help pet owners know when it’s time to bring Fido to the doctor I’ve compiled my “Top Ten” list of dermatological symptoms that should never be ignored:

•Intense itching of the skin (head shaking, running the face into the carpet, furniture, etc.)
•Biting at the skin that creates red, raw crusting areas of the skin
•Multiple ear infections (head shaking, odor from ears, scratching at the ears with hind legs)
•Paw licking or chewing and frequent infections of the skin in the webbed skin of the paws
•Staining of the fur of the paws and nails on multiple feet
•Reoccurring skin infections in the groin, under the shoulders, perianal areas (on or under the tail)
•Greasy scaling skin and/or fur with odorous skin
•Hair loss, or thinning of the fur
•Dark pigmentation of the skin that is chronically infected
•Sudden depigmentation of skin

Allergies and other dermatological issues can be as frustrating for pet owners and their veterinarians as they can be for pets. I encourage any pet owner whose animal is experiencing any of these symptoms to consult with their veterinarian.

Dermatology – Common Issues

[elaine c]

Jenn it is not.. Mary Straus will havea site where you can find a post about the 5 things you should include if you feed kibble…. like a probiotic yougurt, eggs etc. Remember that kibble doesn’t have anything like enzymes which are very important… raw goats milk is great too.

[Jenn H]

Not sure if the Mary Straus recommended is the same person from dogaware site. If so just to clarify she is NOT a vet. Which is not to say there isn’t much value in experience, but she doesn’t have any formal education.

Dr Becker is a great resource. But she & Straus love pushing raw. Dr Becker has a lot more product she hocks too.

[Blkdoodle]

My Goldendoodle had been on Hill’s also but they changed the formula and the label stated all imported products. That was enough for me to change to a USA product and manufacturer. I keep track of her calories, she is 31 months old and she is now on Instinct Raw dried food and loves it. It’s more pricey but I can feed her less to get the same calories. I notice on the bag it’s puppy to adult. Hope this helps.

[anonymous]

Check out these sites before you make your decision:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/ (excerpt below)
Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food.

The numerous dietary choices for your pet can be daunting but if you pick an AAFCO approved food made by a manufacturer with a long track record, odds are good that you will find a suitable food for your pet. Most of the large pet food companies employ full time veterinary nutritionists and have very high quality control standards. That is not to say that a small company cannot produce nutritious and high quality food, but you should check out their website if it’s a company that is not familiar to you. Take the time to research, and ask your veterinarian if you have specific questions or concerns.

[MomOfThor]

Hi all!
i’m super new to this forum and so far I love it!!! I’m getting my black lab puppy this Saturday and the info on food is super confusing to me. Raw food, kibble, mix…can’t really decide. I was going with the raw but having a 20 months old son around raw eating dog kind of scares me. So we decided to feed him kibble for the first few months and then switch him to raw. He’s on Puppy Chow at the breeder right now and I’m switching him from that as soon as I get him. I did but a bag of Puppy Chow to make the transition easier for him by mixing it with the new food, just can’t decide what food to put him on. I live in Canada and there is a wide variety of good high end quality food, just can’t make up my mind. Help this new momma pleeeease!!! Thank you!!!

[Steven H]

October 2016 update
May 2016 my 11 year old Aussie Mozart lost his eye site, retinal detactment they say. Merlin my 8 year old Aussie was diagnosed with IBS, stomach issues. It was a tough battle for awhile. Mozart regained his eye site, still weening him off the steroids but is doing great. Merlin was prescribed tylan powder twice a day. Had a hard time with him not wanting to eat, refusing even cooked chicken breasts. I cant tell you how hard it is seeing him drop this food out of his mouth. I would actually have to hand feed him wet just to get him to eat something. Numerous vet visits, second and third opinions got me nowhere. I dont even want to tell you the tests they ran and wanted to run. My last straw was making an appointment with a veterinary nutritionist. She wanted his entire history of food given and while filling out this paper work I had found one thing. Switching them over to the limited ingredient diet, real chicken stew wet and hard formula was what they had in common.
They say not every food agrees with our four legged kids and believe me I am not bashing there product, it just was not right for my guys. When we look into this limited ingredient products for our kids we might want to think about what they are replacing food ingredients with. Vitamins, herbs a sprinkle of this and that.
Right now Merlin is eating Purina One wet, turkey and venison and is doing great. Only one I could get him to try, believe me I had made plenty of trips to the store. Mozart is doing well on a Redford dog food hard kibble grain free turkey. I have been feeding them this for about two weeks now and have slowly introduced this hard kibble to Merlins wet food, so far so good.
Like I said, not every food is good for every four legged kid. Just wanted to let you know how things have been going.

Thank you all for your posts, great information here..

Steve

• This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by Steven H.

[Diana L]

We had a horrible experience with the dreambone (no rawhide) alternative treats this weekend. Both of my dogs began vomiting and having bloody stools shortly afterwards. One was dead in about 24 hours in a pool of blood from her mouth. I submitted an online report to the FDA in hopes these will get recalled.

[Alice M]

I would like to nominate Natures Variety Instinct with raw bites. My GSD has always been fed Acana and Orijen until the formula change. Now I have switched to Instinct and she is doing better.

[Maria K]

He is eating it raw frozen now. He seems to like it more when it isn’t thawed.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Megan,
I like the selection at Hare better. I only use grinds and I think Hare was $10-$15 more than Reel Raw and that was getting 10 pounders from Reel Raw. To be honest, it’s such a big chunk of meat to thaw and repackage. Hare also offers money off at times, have monthly specials and they have rewards. Also, Reel Raw’s shipping is difficult for me. I can order and have no idea of when it will arrive until the shipping email arrives. It can arrive anywhere from 5 days to 2 weeks. With Hare, I know in minutes when it will arrive. Reel Raw’s grinds appear to be fattier than Hare.

I suggest doing “mock orders” through both and see if there is a price difference. Happy to answer any other questions!

[Bub H]

Hello
I own and operate a small slaughter/cutting plant in Northeast Pa. I have been selling raw material to a few wholesalers who take my raw material (green tripe, head meat, gullets, trachea, sweet breads, hearts, livers, lunges, meat scraps etc). I am looking to start selling or blending these products. I am looking for a co op or some way to move a larger volume. I am thinking I would like to do a course ground blend of
green tripe
head meat
heart
spleen
gullet
trachea
lung
sweetbread
ground in dime size chunks and frozen in 2# tubs.
I don’t want to deliver I am looking for a group to pick up.
We harvest 6-10 cattle per week so that would be roughly 150-300# of material per week.
I also have access to bones, hog material, and a limited amount of lamb material.

[HoundMusic]

I’ve been seriously considering giving the Bright Mind a try for a dog who started having massive, uncontrollable grand mal seizures @ 9yrs old. He’s now 11 and has a notable degree of brain damage, but doing better on a home cooked diet (as opposed to raw), even without supplements, so it’s obvious diet does have an impact on cognitive health.

I don’t have a single issue with feeding any of Purina’s higher grade foods – in fact, when I was actively breeding, Purina ONE and Puppy/Dog Chow gave me outstanding results. These were hunting dogs that quickly fell apart on a feed that was even slightly lacking, and quite honestly, there’s a reason most show & field breeders don’t touch the holistic, “boutique” type foods, and it’s NOT the price. When your entire kennel is going to pot, you’re desperate enough to pay anything.

However, I haven’t fed anything Purina in close to 8yrs, since they changed their formulas back in ’08. I did just pick up a back of the Purina ONE Mature Adult tonight, since this weekend was too busy to do a raw food shopping, and the ingredients look very similar to Bright Mind. I’ll update if I stick with it and notice any differences…

[Megan L]

I’m getting ready to switch to a raw diet (first timer) and also live in Maine (Gardiner) I was thinking of using Reel raw..is there a reason you don’t use them any more? I have also looked at Hare today but hate to pay for shipping

[Karen D]

I just rescued a 10-12 year old Pomeranian. Since I don’t know what he was raised on, I’m having an extremely hard time finding a food that he’ll eat. I finally lit on Pedigree canned, beef only-none of that chicken or beef stew for him, but after 3 weeks he stopped eating. I should mention that he’s had some teeth pulled in that time period so he won’t eat dry kibble. A return visit to the vet showed that he has colitis. He’s on meds for that and the vet recommended boiled beef or chicken until his colon calms down. That was great for about a day, now he turns up his nose. I tried his original canned formula, no dice. I bought raw, no dice. He refuses any and all veggies, cooked or raw. I even tried dry cat kibble! Nope. I’m worried because he’s underweight from being on his own for an unspecified amount of time. The vet is concerned because he had gained a pound but quickly lost it when the colitis started in. I don’t know what to do, it’s like he’s on a hunger strike! I’ve had people say, “just let him go hungry, he’ll eat when he’s hungry enough.” But he’s underweight and to me that’s cruel. Maybe I’m part of the problem and I’m feeding, pun intended, into his food issues.
Help please! Any suggestions at all would be much appreciated.