[Susan]

Hi Donna, try Royal Canine vet diets the PR-Potato & Rabbit, PV-Potato & Venison, PW-Potato & Salmon & PD-Potato & Duck wet tin food not the kibbles, see how he goes, there’s no pea’s & no soy in these formula’s, the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic has hydrolyzate soy protein but I think the soy has been broken down & is no longer soy, like the hydrolyzed chicken liver, my boy is eating the R/C HP wet tin for lunch & he can’t eat chicken & he’s not scratching or getting his red paws after he eats it…. I thought Patch was sensitive to peas & potatoes cause he was very itchy after he ate kibbles that had peas & potatoes in them, I tried the Eukanuba FP-Fish & Potatoes vet diet, it gave him bad diarrhea & vet assumed it was from the potatoes, so I did food elimination raw diet thru Naturopath, but cause of Patches IBD we had a few problems cause of his IBD, then I cooked the raw diet & he can eat peas & potatoes…so I don’t know what happened with the Eukanuba FP vet diet maybe the potatoes were green & off causing Patch to reacted he also got diarrhea after eating Earthborn Ocean Fusion formula the first nag he was OK then I bought a different batch & he had diarrhea, I sent an email to Earthborn Holistic & they said they use all types of potatoes, brown, white, rustic etc…. ..
Here’s the Royal Canin link, look at the Canin wet tin diets, wet tin diets are better then feeding a kibble, kibbles need more carbs to bind the kibble.. I’d be feeding a fish diet PW the Omega 3 is higher. If you look at the PW fish kibble click on the Guaranteed Analysis you’ll see it’s higher in omega 3, DPA & EPA, it’s best to send Royal Canin an email a vet nutritionist rings you back & they will help you with the best diet to start with & then do a food elimination diet with, R/C Hypoallergenic wet can be used for a elimination diets.
https://www.royalcanin.com/products/vet/food-sensitivity

[Brian R]

I have an elder Rottweiler (13 years) that has significant spinal arthritis and neuropathy. She has never tolerated non-steroidal meds well (Rimadyl, Deramaxx, meloxicam, etc.) as they have always caused severe GI distress for her (nausea, anorexia, diarrhea). The only med we’ve found that she can tolerate is tramadol which is only a pain reliever and not an anti-inflammatory. It has provided some relief, but it’s a narcotic and poses tolerance and withdrawal challenges.
We recently started a cautious trial of Galliprant and it has had a dramatic effect. A huge improvement in comfort and mobility and I am now weaning the tramadol as it can’t be stopped abruptly. I am optimistic but will proceed very cautiously. I only give it with a full meal and at minimal dosing, even skipping a day here and there to hopefully avoid GI problems. So far, so good after 3 weeks of treatment.

[Jennifer]

Hi Karyn, I have a Great Dane puppy (8 mos now and 110 lbs) and I feed him Orijen Puppy Large kibble combined with Stella and Chewy dehydrated raw as a topper. He loves it and the balance of nutrition is great to manage his growth rate and I love it because it’s very easy to manage (I tried raw and it was too hard with my schedule and their eating habits) and I feel good about the quality and sourcing of ingredients.

This is the hardest issue to get agreement on among owners, so I eventually reviewed the options I was considering with my vet as a final decision factor.

Good luck! Jenn

[Karyn S]

Hello,

Thank you to all who have contributed such a wealth of information to this forum. I will be welcoming a German Shepherd puppy in about a month and have been trying to determine the best dehydrated, freeze-dried or raw diet to start her on. (I do not have the capacity to do an entirely raw diet, but could add raw toppers to a meal.)

I’ve read through all pages and just when I feel I have a direction, something changes it.

I started with HDM’s latest list, which includes some Raw and a couple of THC dehydrated options for large breed puppies. Since the list is a bit older, I reached out to a couple of the companies (Stella and Chewy’s and THC) specific to average/maximum calcium and received conflicting information, which leads me to believe formulas have changed since list was compiled.

I’m also a member of Editor’s choice and there’s only 1 non-dry food option (FreshPet) noted. I have been researching for hours on end and it seems I am nowhere closer to a decision.

Does anyone have recommendations for a dehydrated, freeze-dried and/or raw option(s) that would be safe for a large breed puppy. I’m trying to avoid feed kibble if at all possible.

Thank you!

[pitlove]

I would voice your concerns to her. Since she is a novice breeder she may not actually be able to help, but a good breeder, family member or not wants to know these things.

And yes, I would at minimum bring her to the vet before switching to raw.

[anonymous]

For best results, consult a veterinary dermatologist. Get the dog properly diagnosed first, then you can evaluate your diet and treatment options.
By any chance was this a pet shop/puppy mill dog? Because a lot of breeders continue to breed dogs that have environmental allergies even though they shouldn’t. There is a genetic link.
I have an allergic dog, she is doing very well under the care of a veterinary dermatologist, sees him once a year. It’s all good. And, she tolerates a variety of foods, but does best on Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea
Raw made her sick, emergency vet visits and all.

[Erika I]

My pug was also very, very itchy and I transitioned her to raw thinking it was her food. But she was still scratching like crazy and losing big patches of hair so I now have her on a seasonal allergy medication (Vet’s Best Seasonal Allergy Support Supplement for Dogs)… and it worked! we have seen a complete change… no more scratching… and her fur is growing back. Mind you this was after several expensive vet visits and several food changes (thinking she was allergic to a specific protein) and nothing helped her. Vets Best is very affordable… only like 7 dollars on Amazon and I tell you it is the magic pill… all natural ingredients too!

Hope this helps!

[pitlove]

Hi ScottsMomma-

At 9 weeks old the itching is extremely unlikely to be a food sensitivity. Don’t forget, dogs get itches like we do and it does not mean they are having an allergic reaction.

Raw diets are challenging to do correctly and especially with a puppy who needs optimized vitamins and minerals for proper bone development etc, the risk of a deficient diet outweighs any perceived benefit. Start the puppy off on a very simple food with the least amount of ingredients. Chicken and rice for example. Do not jump all over the place to exotic proteins.

If you want to do raw wait until after the critical growth period and use a commercial product like Natures Variety.

[ScottsMomma]

We recently brought home a pug puppy-currently 9 weeks old. Due to her being rather itchy, I am thinking about trying her on raw-which is all new to me. How does one start off a puppy on raw food? Do you add things like coconut oil, kelp, etc to it?

[FrankiesDoggie]

Thanks aimee, I’ve been gravitating to Nature’s Variety in fact because they’re so widely available, and their frozen raw is one of the few that don’t include synthetic vitamins (or very little).

[aimee]

Hi FrankiesDoggie,
I’ve looked at a lot of commercial raw diets including Darwins, Primal, Natures Variety, Answers. Natures Variety as a company was able to correctly answer my nutritional inquiries to them and they HPP their diets. In general when I’ve looked at the nutrient profiles of other raw diets I’ve found self reported deficiencies. When I contact the company to inquire about the self reported deficiency they don’t reply.

Some providers simply grind up animal parts and sell it as dog food. Personally I wouldn’t use that type of product at all. In order to balance such a product you’d need a full nutrient analysis and I’ve never seen this type of information provided. Dogs can look great on highly unbalanced/improper diets but eventually they cause problems.

[Shela E]

Do you have a suggestion as to ordering any of these online? I live in a very rural area, I must drive 140 miles round trip for raw food. I have a BC and an Aussie and feed mostly primal, OC, and Vital Essentials, my raw food bill is very high. One dog has food triggers, so really have to watch ingredients. Also use Honest Kitchen.

[Acroyali]

Charisma, that sounds awful 🙁 Hopefully you’ll find something your dog does well with.
One of mine is violently allergic or intolerant to chicken but does great on turkey; this isn’t set in stone of course. One of my cats has a terrible time with raw diets of any description (even boneless with Alnutrin added), but on a cooked diet he’s done very well.
Every 2 hours is pretty often but with chronic pancreatitis, several small feeds per day vs. 1 or 2 large(r) feeds might not be a bad idea. My cat with IBD (no pancreatitis, thankfully) does much better on 3-4 little meals per day. When we were still doing 2 feedings per day, he would eat then seem to have abdominal discomfort from the larger portions.

[Acroyali]

Sorry you’re having difficulties Lori 🙁 Have you been able to do a search for any holistic minded vets in your area? You didn’t specify if his current diet is dry or wet, most dogs with diabetes (and many with stones) do well with a higher moisture diet than a dry food can offer. I’m not a fan of prescription diets , so I can’t help on that much, but if you’re thinking of trying something else a holistic vet who knows about raw and/or cooked feeding for a dog with health problems would be the person to consult, as when dealing with diabetes and possible liver problems, finding a good diet can be tricky (but not impossible).
I’ve been down your path. It’s frustrating as heck to spend thousands and see little to no improvement, but don’t give up. Contrary to what others seem to think, holistic vets and homeopathic vets are two very different types of practice and have absolutely nothing to do with one another; a holistic vet would be a good option.
Lew Olson at B naturals has a great book on feeding real food to dogs, and has chapters with information on what foods are good for what problems (based on the dogs current lab numbers, something you’ll want to keep up with). Hope this is helpful.

[Lori H]

I am beyond confused on what to do regarding my dog! I am looking for some kind of direction without completely going down the Internet rabbit hole and doing something I might regret! There is so much information out there and I am so overwhelmed!

My dog Buddy just turned nine. He is a Chihuahua/Dachshund/Pomeranian mix and slightly overweight. (19 lbs) should be around (16 lbs).

Here is a year in the life:

– March 2016 – discovered to have bladder stones; tried to eliminate them with a change in food (Royal Canin Prescription). There was a lot of confusion, second opinions and it was then discovered that they were calcium oxilate with two logged in his urethra. He had surgery to remove the stones and they have not yet returned. We did change his food to Hills Science Diet U/D.

– March 2017 – having what I could only call “panic attacks”. Went to the vet to discover after blood work that he has diabetes. We put him on insulin and slowly have been increasing it from 3 units to 5 units. He was going back every few weeks to have his levels checked. It was not getting better so a test for Cushing’s was ordered and came back negative (thank goodness). We continued with the dosing and he has been on 5 units consistently for the last month.

Thursday 5.4.17 – took him back to the vet for a check up and because he was again experiencing a “panic attack”. I was worried he was having an insulin reaction. They ran blood work and found that he was not having any type of reaction to either too much or too little insulin, but is now insulin resistant (Type II).

Next steps – they are concerned about his liver and want to do a liver biopsy to see if there is something severe going on. I have spent almost $7K on him in a year alone and don’t want to do something that might not be necessary, eliminate the stress on him and also the additional cost. I will do anything for him, but I am now thinking that a more holistic approach might be the answer.

With this, I am trying to determine what will be best for him because of the issue with bladder stones, diabetes and possible liver issues. I feel like he is broken. 🙁 I am willing to do research, but a point in the right direction is what I need to at least start somewhere.

I have gotten him Milk Thistle, I am planning to get Bragg Apple Cider vinegar, I am also thinking that SAM-e, Vitamin K and a probiotic are necessary. I just don’t know what to do to feed him. I would like to try a possible raw food that is commercially made first and then go from there…

Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated. He has been through so much and I just want him to feel better, get healthy and be around for a few more years.

Thank you again!

[InkedMarie]

I save money & order grinds from Hare Today. Other good companies are Reel Raw, Raw Feeding Miami, My Pet Carnivore.

[Erika I]

The key to raw food (in my experience) is “take your time with it!” What I mean is, introduce new ingredients slowly and start slowly. I started my 4-year-old pug on raw food with just ground beef and ground up cooked eggs(shell and all) along with fish oil and a vitamin powder. the first week she started with a 1/2 cup of food the first day and I slowly increased the amount of food till she was at 1 cup a day. She was on this diet for about 3 months before I changed her to a more complex diet (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P85BMCCboI). From my experience, raw food has its ups and downs in the beginning but once you find what works well for your puppy it is the best! Bella (my pug) at first threw up the food had lots of bad diarrhea. and even months into the new diet she had bouts of throwing up and diarrhea when I introduced new ingredients too quickly. So that is why I suggest taking your time with it. Now Bella loves it and her coat is super shiny and thick and her seasonal allergies are even better!
– I had Bella on goats milk to try and help with her allergies and it is great it helps with all kinds of things – but I found it to be unnecessary now that I have her on a balanced raw diet.

As far a spaying, I waited till Bella was about 1 year old before she had the operation. Sometimes young pups don’t do so well with the operation and Bella was so little that we felt more comfortable waiting. She went through one cycle which wasn’t bad at all…just be sure to have diapers on hand!

Hope this helps!
All the best,
Erika

[FrankiesDoggie]

Here’s my personal list winnowed down after extensive research:

Nature’s Variety, Darwin’s Natural Selections, Bravo, Stella and Chewy’s, Primal Raw, OC Raw Dog, Vital Essentials, Northwest Naturals, Steve’s Real Food (maybe Answers if I can get past the weird packaging).

My criteria is:

—Freeze dried versions available (for travel)
—Consistently rated 4.5 or above for all formulas (I’m amazed that one Primal formula for example will be five stars, and then the very next one is only 2.5, yeesh)
—Widely available at my local pet boutiques (or convenient packages purchased online)
—Not insanely expensive

Anyone have favorites I might have overlooked?

[HoundMusic]

All ingredients that don’t sound like they were pulled off a human grocery shopping list seem to be “controversial” to some people. Personally, I think it has much to do with deliberate misinformation, hype, and frankly, immaturity on the behalf of some of those doing the controversy spreading – i.e., the “ewwww gross” mentality that tends to crop up when someone either doesn’t or doesn’t want to understand what that ingredient actually consists of, and why it has been included in the feed.

Plasma is nothing more than the part of blood which contains the fat – in dog food it usually has a pork origin. If you fed your dog an undercooked or raw steak, they would be eating animal plasma that has not been separated from the red blood cells. It’s used for flavoring, but flavoring a feed does not equate it with junk. It is also not a “filler” – most ingredients labeled as such usually aren’t, in reality – and may not be a nutritional powerhouse, but does contain some in the form of extra fats, which are a necessary nutrient.

Whether or not you want to feed it is a personal choice. In my own opinion, I see nothing wrong with it, though.

[Susan]

Hi T E,
if you want to start feeding a healthy diet then start adding some fresh raw foods or fresh cooked foods to his diet, chicken frames, turkey legs, chicken is the softest bone, stay away from chicken necks, the chicken necks just have fat & bone no meat, not that great, also rotate between a few different brands of kibbles with different proteins, so he’s not eating the same brand & protein 24/7…..
Follow “Rodney Habib” on his face book page he’s into feeding a healthy raw diet & feeding healthy whole foods to prevent cancer… they did a study for all the kibble feeders & they found by adding 1-2 tablespoons of fresh whole foods to the dogs bowl of kibble reduces their chances of your dog getting cancer by 90%, Rodney talks about it in the video, he also has heap of other videos, go to “Planet Paws” a lot of his video’s will be found there….

Omega 3 is a anti inflammatory & it reduces chances of getting cancer, start adding foods high in omega 3 fatty acids, like tin sardines in spring water or olive oil add a few sardines to your dogs kibble, coconut oil, almonds are high in omega 3 fatty acids, I give Patch 1/2 of an almond & I eat the other 1/2 this way he chews the almond properly its the size of a kibble give about 3-4 almonds a day….
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib
Once your on Rodney’s page scroll down a bit & watch the video where Rodney’s holding up a sign that say Cannabil Oil the video has really good info…..

Take baby steps, don’t feed all these foods all at once to your dog, he will probably get diarrhea work out which ones are the best for him & you, adding a few sardines to his kibble would be a good start, Aldis sell cheap tin sardines in spring water, also add some tin pink Salmon, the bones are OK to feed, just crush them they break really easy…..
In the video Rodney also talks about when you open up a bag of kibble, as soon as it’s opened the air/oxygen gets to all the oils in the kibbles & they start to go rancid & oxides, so your dog isn’t getting the right amount of omega 3 fatty acid that he should be getting in his diet, same as glucosamine, when dogs get older people think they need to start feeding a senior food, that has Glucosamine, but you’d need to feed a heap of Senior kibble to get the right amount of Glucosamine needed for their joints, so your better off adding Glucosamine tablet supplement to your dogs diet also I forgot Green Lipped Mussels are great to add to diet, in one video Rodney asked Steve Brown if you could only pick 1 food to add to your dogs diet what would it be? Steve Brown said “Green Lipped Mussels, 1 tablespoon of Salmon & a pinch of kelp…

[Susan]

Hi
Food can cause yeasty smelly ears, skin & paws if the dog has food sensitivities/intolerances to certain ingredients, you need to work out what foods your dog is sensitive too, my boy can not eat chicken, barley, oats, corn, gluten corn & carrots, carrots are the worst, 20mins after eating the carrots he starts scratching his ears, shaking his head, when I didn’t know it was the carrot & kept feeding the carrots in his rissoles he’d started to get yeasty, smelly infected ears, & walked tilting his head, same as chicken he gets red smelly paws & real itchy skin & rubs bum on the floor/carpet others foods that have corn, corn gluten meal caused sloppy poo’s….
I did a food elimination diet, raw is the best to feed, or cooked or use one of the vet diets like Royal Canine, Hypoallergenic wet tin or the Royal Canine wet tin PR-Potato & Rabbit, PV-Potato & Venison, PK-Potato & Salmon, or there’s the dry kibble after eliminating all treats & just feeding raw, vet diet or your own cooked diet that has just 1 single novel protein + 1 carb when the dog ears & skin aren’t smelly & itchy anymore you start adding 1 new ingredient for 6 weeks to see if he reacts to the new ingredient, it can take food sensitivities/intolerances anywhere from 1 day to 6 weeks for the dog to start reacting & showing any symptoms …..
Here’s some limited ingredient single protein kibbles & wet tin formula’s-
* “Zignature” – http://zignature.com/?page_id=333&lang=en
* “Canidae Pure” – http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
* “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb or TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon both have limited ingredients. http://www.tasteofthewild.com.au/

Join this group on face book, “Dog issues, allergies and other information support group” a lot of really good info & a Dermatologist pops in every now & here’s one of her links about the “Facts & Myths about Yeast Dermatitis in dogs, scroll down to about the 7th paragraph read about food sensitivities/intolerances, http://www.healthyskin4dogs.com/blog/2015/9/8/facts-myths-about-yeast-dermatitis-in-dogs

[InkedMarie]

Hi Cindy,
I have a brittany, too! Her name is Ginger, she will be 7 in july. One of my other dogs used to get a lot of yeast ear infections. For him, switching to a raw diet with no produce worked. If you’re looking at kibble, look for foods with no potato. I’d say no white and no sweet but they aren’t easy to find. I have a list of grain & potato free here on te DFA forums, in the Dog Food Ingredients forum. It’s on top, highlighted in yellow. Might be a good place to start.

Marie

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by InkedMarie.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by InkedMarie.

[Marsha A]

Hi. I have an 8 mo. old Chihuahua, Tess. We took her to a integrative vet to get a different opinion on her care. The vet told us to feed her a raw food Answers or Barf. And also Answers goat milk. The conventional vet we have thinks raw food is dangerous. We wanted to get a second opinion for a number of reasons. I did not like that they promote Science Diet. And she recommended spaying at 6 mos. The integrative recommended we spay at 18 – 24 mos. because she has a recessed vulva. She has not had a first heat yet. We are now feeding her the Small Breed Wellness kibble and Wellness Core can chicken. I am really posting this for anyone that can help with their experience on the raw food and also any experience about spaying. I really hate to get her spayed but I am probably going to have to because of the chance of pyometra and mammary cancer. Any suggestions at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you much. Marsha

[Rene P]

Tripe is not an organ meat, it is considered a muscle. Also, I would not just feed chicken (even for a little while). It was recommended in “Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs” by Lew Olson, that you vary the meats in order to maintain a healthy diet. She recommends feeding tripe 2x weekly, beef, 1-2x, chicken(meat) only 1x, and lamb/pork/rabbit the other days. Her book is full of great info for the raw food neophyte and I HIGHLY recommend it. I’ve been transitioning my dog to raw for the past 10 days and he is already partial to his raw meals and bones. If you get the book but would prefer to make your own supplements (instead of purchasing hers), I can provide a good recipe for that. Hope this was helpful. René

[Becca]

My dogs are also on a raw diet I home make and dehydrate their Chicken Treats and liver treats and I also make them homemade cookies with no grain

[Kelsey F]

Thank you for the responses. I should have mentioned that my veterinarian is aware I am looking for alternatives and suggested at least watching phosphorus levels and lowering her protein somewhat which is what I have done with the senior food. The vet is also aware of the other things in her diet. My dogs creatinine was 1.4 and her BUN was not elevated at all. I have two nutritionists I have spoken to about possible raw diets but like I said I am not ready to switch yet.

[Acroyali]

Many people have fed a low phosphorous raw diet to dogs in early/mid stage kidney disease. Mary Strauss and Lew Olson have excellent blogs that touch on this topic. Numbers matter, so depending on what things are elevated and how high will determine the best diet possible for your dog.

Also, raw diets are NOT “homeopathic.” Not even close.

[anonymous]

Please listen to your vet and start the prescription food right away and whatever other recommendations the vet has made. Provide plenty of fresh water and frequent bathroom breaks. I would get the kibble plus the canned version, mix and add a little water (measured amounts 2 or 3 times a day) no free feeding.
Believe me, you want to keep kidney disease at bay. It’s good that your vet caught this early. It’s not unusual for a senior dog to have labs that are a little off, but hopefully with the special diet you will see improvement when you retest in a few months.

I’ll never understand why people disregard the advise of their vets. The internet is not “research”. There is a lot of incorrect information on the internet.
I hope that you will pick up the prescription food today and ask your vet to explain the rationale for the special diet and anything else that you should be doing.

Btw: Raw is the worst thing you could feed a dog with kidney disease.

[Kelsey F]

I recently had routine senior blood work done on my 8 year old lab mix and some of her levels were on the high end of normal. Her veterinarian said she may be in the early stages of kidney disease and suggested switching her to Hills K/D. They aren’t sure about the kidney disease and want to retest her in several months. She has been eating a variety of mostly grain free foods her entire life with Taste of the Wild being her main food. I am not comfortable switching her to K/D for a few reasons but mainly because we aren’t even sure she has kidney disease and if she does it’s still the still early stage. The vet has said the food is well balanced and ok for a dog without kidney disease. I have switched her to First Mate Senior which I feel has higher quality ingredients. I also add a small amount of canned K/D, eggs whites, green tripe and some fresh fruits and veggies. I have been reading so many things about canine kidney disease and diet and am getting overwhelmed! I am looking for others input and opinions. Also, I am wondering what others have fed their dogs with early stage kidney disease? I have looked in to raw but am not ready to feed a completely raw diet although I have begun to do some research on it.

• This topic was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Kelsey F.

[pugmomsandy]

As far as raw coated kibble goes, there are a few on the market already such as Nature’s Variety which has been available for several years. What used to be Pioneer Naturals/Great Life which has been sold recently also had a line of raw coated kibble. Maybe Great Life sold to Sport Dog because Sport Dog Grain Free Elite is very similar to Great Life/Pioneer Naturals. But that is conjecture.

I personally like freeze dried raw coatings for raw benefits but it is just a coating and probably not a substantial part of the overall kibble. A cost breakdown would need to be done to see if raw coated kibble versus kibble with raw mixers would be a savings if feeding just dry foods.

As for the baked part of the question, there are some choices already such as Wellness TruFood, Carna4, Lotus, Oven-baked Tradition and Flint River Ranch which has been bought by (I’m trying to remember the name). It is said that a baked kibble is a less processed product than an extruded product. And some facilities that produce baked kibble (plain baked kibble not with raw coating) are also human food manufacturers as well.

For kibble feeders, it adds another option to plain extruded kibble. For me as a raw feeder, I would get it for convenience, treat balls or boarding a dog. For someone who looks at ingredient sourcing, this company would be a good choice and has many options. I guess it depends on how much money I’m willing to spend at that certain time when I’m browsing in the dog food section or give in to impulse buying.

[HoundMusic]

DO NOT give any Hamburger mince or boiled rice this is sooo OLD school now, people that have been thru this problem with their fur babies would have seen vet specialist & know not to use any fatty mince meats like hamburger mince, boiled rice can irritate the bowel, plus rice ferments in the stomach….Boiled potato or boiled sweet potato & a very lean white meat is now used when a dog becomes ill with stomach & bowel problems…. “

I am sorry, but this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Rice does not ferment in the stomach. White rice is a very digestible form of fiber that tends to be a constipating agent as it soaks up excess moisture in the digestive tract.
Hamburger meat, properly prepared, is also an excellent source of nutrients and actually seems to digest easier than boiled chicken in some dogs with digestive issues. Red meats that tend to promote loose stools when raw do have the opposite effect when well cooked.

I’ve weaned about a dozen litters of pups over the years on cooked hamburger meat mixed with baby cereal, and it is generally better tolerated than chicken, but of course, there will be exceptions with individual dogs. IMHO, I find that hamburger and *white* rice is far superior to chicken/rice for dogs who truly have an irritated, sensitive or otherwise delicate digestive system. While that is just personal opinion based on 15+ years of observation, scientific fact tends to concur with me about the rice. It soaks up excess moisture that will only bulk up and soften the stool.

There is nothing “old school” about following methods that work, and that have a basis in scientific fact for doing so. Boiled potatoes of any variety do not have this moisture absorbing effect on the digestive system, and are fairly high on the glycemix index. This seems to me more a case of believing grains are the devil than any nutritional or scientific basis for recommending potatoes.

[Maria O]

Im sure DFA already knows about it but, yup! S&C has come forth with their own baked raw coated kibble. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/

Just as a disclaimer: I’m a little new into the raw feeding world. I’ve been feeding my pups Primal for about 6 months now due to my beagle’s constant weight fluctuations when on a kibble diet. After weaning her off of the table scraps my family would give her, scheduling her feedings and walks, and going at least 90% commercial raw, she’s been better than I thought she could ever be; the chub she used to have just melted off, and she’s quite the beaut. Not to mention my 7 year old Schnauzer’s been thriving like crazy off of it – no more half eaten bowls. Well thats enough about that ~

I’ve never tried S&C, but I’ve heard its a decent starter brand for those who’d like to try raw feeding with a nice amount of protein options. As a dog food retailer I know the meal mixers are a huge hit, which has earned them a pretty good rep overall.

The S&C company believes that by providing this baked, raw coated kibble, they would be reaching more pets with the benefits of raw. Specifically for those who cant afford a 100% raw diet, whether it be because of time or money. I think they’re hoping for this kibble to be a sort of “gateway” for raw feeding and kibble standards in general.

As you can imagine, there are a couple sides to this:
– Those who think this is just a marketing tactic, a contradicting product, a step backwards, etc.
– Those who think this is a good starting balance for those who simply cant or wont go raw.

As for the kibble ingredients, it looks decent enough, and the baked route certainly stands them out some. I really cant say what I think about it just yet.
What do you think about their decision? Is it a good idea? A bad one? Personal opinions/Thoughts?

[Marcia]

I couldn’t even get to the end of this thread before I commdnted. I have 4 dogs, all born in 2011. For flea and tick control, I at first used Frontline, but one of my pups started having horrible reactions for up to 12 hours after – I think she was itching or burning, or both. I tried Advantix. Omg so much worse. My other 3 even reacted. My vet recommended Bravecto, so I put them all on it and have noticed no issues. My babies are my heart and I am very attentive to their moods, eating habits, etc. I do not give Bravecto all year round – 2 to 3 doses a year. I live in WI so even though the vet says I should give it year round, I won’t because I want them to have a break from it and the winter months are less risky for fleas/ticks. Same with heartworm meds, I stop in late fall. I have a woodsy backyard which they spend a lot of time in in good weather, and, I run them every other day for a mile and a half at nature reservoir with 3 large ponds – lots of grasses, weeds, reeds, waterfowl, and other wildlife, as well as scat from other dogs that run there. So I want them to be protected. I have never found a flea or a tick on any of them, nor has their groomer. My sister runs her dogs with me, and she has found dead ticks about 3x in 6 years. She uses topical flea and tick control, I believe.

As many of you have said, we all have to choose what we feel is right for our situation and our babies. Factors like geography, general health of our pups, their age, their breed, etc., our own financial and living situations that also factor into these decisions. No 2 people will have the same circumstances.

Being snarky and using thinly veiled insults only produces more of the same, and draws negative energy to yourself. Be kind to each other. We’re all here to help each other and learn from each other because we have infinite love for the creatures who depend upon us. Show some of that compassion and respect to each other.

[Becca]

Dogs still loving the raw

[Cameron M]

My statement is I agree…yes…it is good to get facts out. The facts helped me decide..yes I am leery …yes I am keeping a watchful eye on my gal..she is great so far. No I am not sold on long term Bravecto…at the same time I am not running for the hills based on conjecture.

My parting shot is reports aren’t facts…the facts will be decided in due time if any agency follows up. For now the reports are just that…reports with I may add have unknown weight or accuracy UNTIL we get the facts.

Until then I suggest caution…use your head but don’t lose it. Weigh risks vs benefits and realize that all medications have draw backs…use any medication sparingly.

Can we agree on this?

[lori l]

My dog Zoe was diagnosed with Myasthenia Gravis and mild ME six years ago and has now developed digestive issues – some gastritis and most likely Gastroparesis. High volume meals are a problem and smaller meals seem okay until they accumulate in her stomach then voila…she will vomit. Darwin’s raw would not make good meatballs unless you cooked it. When Zoe vomits her Darwins there are chunks of bone in the vomit and I suspect those are difficult to digest in her stomach. She has also eaten in the past ….Smallbatch patties. Good quality raw. The bone seems to be ground up and not chunky and they might roll into meatballs. They Turkey patties are lower in fat than the others. I haven’t gone back to the SB brand since Zoe started vomiting. I too, are in the hunt for the perfect food. Not too high in fat, not too high in fiber and enough protein for good health. Have you had any luck with the freeze dried brands HDM suggested? My vet doesn’t like Zoe being on raw right now and wants a “cooked” food. I may tried the freeze dried option so I can cook it as much as I need to. Its been a while since your post…any luck since then? Zoe is not on Raglan…does it help? Any side-affects?

[anonymous]

Oh, and give her a raw carrot (or 1/2 of one) to chew on, no more than once a day, not the baby carrots (choking hazard)

[Jane L]

Oh I can assure you I am fully aware of the Vioxx case and full rap sheet. Yes sadly it took over 60k human deaths in the 4 years they dragged their feet before Vioxx was withdrawn.

Do you know this part?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-created-hit-list-to-destroy-neutralize-or-discredit-dissenting-doctors/

I actually know many vets. Some warn strongly against its use. Some have seen what it has done to clients dogs. It’s still a mystery what exactly is going on. Many deaths are days after dose three. Some cases the dogs react in minutes. Some still appear to be ok after over two years.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Jane L.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Jane L.

[Jane L]

Yes that’s Sweden. Not been there that long. If really interested just get a report which I have. Many cases are listed as probable cause or known reaction. Many cases are vets own dogs. Some happened in vets offices. One 5 month old puppy dead in 30 minutes.

On my latest report dated 7/03/2017 from the EMA (European Medicines Agency) there are now 3988 reports / 972 deaths.

This is up from January 9th when there was 3,668 reported serious adverse events including 874 deaths. So an increase of 320 reports / 98 deaths in the two month period.
1647 reports /486 deaths are in the USA.

If you are happy to risk it that’s you choice. I hope for you dogs sake you don’t regret as so many do.

I hope the June announcement is that it is withdrawn. At least the dog topical has not arrived still so maybe the fact that the human adverse reactions jumped from 33 to 74 in just a few weeks on the arrival of the cat spot on and they were unable to prevent cross contamination even in the laboratories maybe that is shelved.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by Jane L.

[Lora J]

Congratulations on your new dog! I have large breeds, myselfso I cannot comment on that. But I have found this dog food rating system on this website a valuable tool for finding the best food for our budget. I have found it takes some time to search through the higher rated foods, thrn shop around to price check, but worth it. Buy the highest rated food you can afford. I also supplement my dogs’ dry kibble with raw carrots and broccoli as treats for additional enzymes and antioxidents. I am sure you will get additional helpful comments here. Good luck!

[Acroyali]

Hi LovelyBear!

All my dogs use their feet when eating, yet my cats don’t. Go figure 😀

I wouldn’t be surprised if she catches onto the crate games soon and remembers that her crate used to be a place she enjoyed. Some dogs just kind of get weirded out by something they haven’t seen in awhile. My overly visual herding breeds are like this. One of them will stare at something new as if willing it to move!

Truthfully I don’t think all kibble is horrible, but I’m like you–I’d rather know what I’m feeding my dogs and cats, as well as know where it’s sourced from…most of it is farm to bowl. The suppliers I’ve used for the many years I’ve been doing this have never left me anything but satisfied. I don’t feel a raw diet magically “prevents” or “cures” cancer, nor will keep a dog from dying of anything but old age when they’re well into their 30’s (but wouldn’t that be awesome….), but I consider it another form of insurance, along with environmental factors that can potentially increase or decrease those risks. We do our best.

I don’t notice a huge difference between my young or young-ish raw fed animals vs. their non-raw fed friends, but as they age I see subtle differences between the two. An NR breeder I work with has generations of dogs and her seniors look (and act) pretty much like the younger generations do. The most striking difference was between one of my dogs (then 7 years old) and another dog of the same age and breed who appeared to be much older. Maybe we just got lucky genetics but my dog was often guessed to be between 2-4 years old because of his coat condition, clean teeth, etc.

Wishing you the best of luck!!

[LovelyBear]

Hi Acroyali!

Thank you for all of this helpful advice! I was surprised to see my dog afraid of her crate. 3 years ago she would always want to go in there without me giving a command. Plus she would always get in there and even open the door with her paw when I gave her the command “get in your crate”. I’ll definitely take things slow, play games, etc.

I currently feed on towels since my dog occasionally likes to use her paws when eating raw meals. I’ll have to try a washable mat because washing the towels get tedious and I get worried they aren’t being cleaned fully.

Exactly there are risks with anything. Plus all of these big name dog food brands are having recalls. I’d rather know everything I am feeding my dog. Before the switch she was on Taste of the Wild and over half the ingredients where added vitamins/minerals. I was paying $60 a month for that lol!

[Susan]

Hi Cameron M, my vet doesn’t recommend Bravecto especially when you have elderly dog or a dog with health problems….. Bravecto doesn’t just leave the dogs system after 3 months, in Australia some vets are seeing too many side effects & recommending to give dose every 4 months, or just the once for the Summer months, ticks are still being found dead after 5 months after taking just 1 Bravecto chew dose…
*Bravecto stays in the body way tooo long, I wonder, dogs that are given Bravecto in 5 yrs what health problems will these poor dogs have or what health problems they will be dying from??
Found this when I googled Bravecto so I copied & paste….

Susana Wahs shared a link to the group: “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs”?
Long term side effects. Still finding dead ticks months after last dose ? Some disturbing facts I have found as to why.
I was researching as to why my dog has had 10 months of lack of appetite following his last dose of Bravecto, my vet came up with all the usual excuses, it is summer, it is warm, dogs eat less in summer, i told them it is Bravecto, my dog was 5 he has always eaten in summer, the house has air conditioning, he lives inside. This lack of appetite carried on through the winter, a full 10 months of putting his meal out for him at 9 am and him not touching it until 9 pm if he bothered at all some days, he always ate two meals a day 12 hours apart before he had his serious adverse reaction to Bravecto. Many days i have had to feed him by hand to encourage him to eat something.
I was also looking into why at 6 months after his last dose i found Dead attached ticks on his stomach, even though he was not taking any tick and flea treatment, then this April, i found 2 more dead attached ticks on him, 12 months after his last dose, I check him daily for ticks and fleas. Many other people have reported still finding dead attached ticks on their dogs upto a year after the last dose, i wanted to know how it could be and how long can this carry on for ?
So i started researching to see what the levels of Fluralaner are in the dogs plasma. I found some of the trials which mention the dogs had blood drawn to measure the levels, Fluralaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 112 days after single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels of fluralaner after day 112 for us that are in Countries where we should give Bravecto every 3 months/ 90 days) so from this we know Bravecto is still efficient enough and quantifiable in the plasma to be still killing upto 112 days.
So then i start to look into the Bravecto Australia, which must be the same ingredients as they refer to the testing trials the same, the only additional testing carried out for its use in Australia was how effective it is against Paralysis ticks, which was an additional test to all the others we see. Australia is sold Bravecto that is to be taken every 4 months/ 120 days as it is still efficent to kill paralysis ticks for 4 months. Flualaner was quantifiable in plasma for up to 143 days after a single oral dose ( they have not published any testing for levels after the 143 days) Results: Fluralaner treatment efficacy against I. holocyclus was 100% at 72 h post treatment. Following re-infestations the efficacy remained at 100% at the 72 h assessments for 115 days and reached 95.7% at 143 days.
So still 100 per cent efficacy at 115 days ……… And still 95.7% at 143 days. ( Almost 5 months )
So what would the levels be at say 6 months, 7 months, 8 months, a year, 2 years ?
It does not just leave your dogs system at the 3 month marker, this is probably how we are seeing long term side effects. What have I done to my dog. He is still not fully recovered 15 months after his dose of Bravecto.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24606874
http://us.bravovets.com/published-studies-resources.aspx
http://www.bravecto.com.au/…/bravecto_technical_detailer.pdf

Pharmacokinetics of fluralaner in dogs following a single oral or intravenous administration. -…
Parasit Vectors. 2014 Mar 7;7:85. doi: 10.1186/1756-3305-7-85. Randomized Controlled Trial
NCBI.NLM.NIH.GOV|BY KILP S , ET AL.

Pharmacokinetics

[anonymous]

“Raw garlic is probably a no-no……what about powdered garlic ?”

It depends on who you ask.
Homeopathic veterinary folks will tell you garlic is okay and even beneficial.
Science based veterinary medicine says garlic is toxic to dogs and to be avoided (big time).

[InkedMarie]

Raw garlic, in moderation, is actually fine. You’d have to use heads of garlic for toxicity. I’ve been using Bug off Garlic for years.

[Tabitha K]

Hey anon. He’s allergic to fleas and chicken. Everything else has been ruled out.
Noticed he would get hives after giving raw chicken and every time he would eat his food (which is chicken based). He also has a sensitivity to corn and soy. Causes horrible gas. I’ve heard that’s very common with lab and lab mixes.
Also, with chicken being a very common dog allergy, we started off with taking the corn and soy out and then feeding him beef based foods. No reaction with beef. Back to a bowl of chicken based, hives.

[Parag S]

Hi Kathy,

What differences did you notice in your dog going from raw to legend?

Thanks,
Parag

[Acroyali]

Lovelybear we must be out of the same mold. We recently dragged out an old crate for one of our dogs to eat in and she acted like she was being put in jail, and like I threw away the key! This dog hasn’t had the need to be crated (other than in the car) for quite some time, so she’s none too thrilled with our newest and brightest idea. She has no self preservation and I’m constantly worried she might get hurt. It occurred to us that if she DOES injure herself, crate rest will be in order and it might be a good idea to re-acclimate her so she doesn’t stress.

I keep the crate in a high traffic area (our kitchen is bustling) so she’s in the action (so to speak), and we started playing little crate games. I’d take a treat, have her sit and wait, and toss the treat into the crate and release her. We put a few old blankets in there one night, made a big show of burying some really high value treats IN the blankets and shut the door and released. She wanted in that crate so bad! We opened the door and she flew in, nudging the blankets aside and hunting those treats down. We left the door open so she could exit whenever, and she was so into the game that she didn’t even think about leaving the crate until she was 100% sure there wasn’t a crumb left.

Be creative! If you’re into clicker training, a clicker can come in really useful in situations like this and you can choose a word to send her into the crate. (We use “load up”, a friend of mine simply says “In you go”!) Play crate games with her. When I crate train a new dog I don’t leave the door open when I’m not actively training it, it’s like reverse psychology–the crate = games = fun = not always available. Some people have better luck leaving the door open 24 hours a day and letting the dog explore at their own pace. Assess your dog and do what you feel would be best for her. Be creative! 🙂

I’ve fed raw for a lot of years. A few dogs eat out of bowls, a few on plastic washable mats (no bowls). When it’s nice we do feed some dogs outside, but the yard isn’t treated with anything. The bowls and mats go in hot, soapy water and are easy to wash and rinse. They air dry.

It’s great that your dog is a good, slow eater and not a gulper! Crate feeding is great because it IS so easy to clean. If absolutely necessary, it might be possible to take the crate bottom pan out and let it be free-standing in the room, and use it as a place for her to eat until she’s used to the actual crate again. Once she’s happy walking in and out of the crate for a treat, maybe jackpot reward her with a few gizzards or something really high value.

Yes, there are risks concerning raw feeding, but unfortunately there are risks concerning ANY feeding, for pets or humans. The presence of penobarbitol in some “high end” brands lately have really made many people suspicious of the idea that commercial food is automatically safe and raw food is automatically dangerous.

[anonymous]

Agree with above post. Also, it is always a good idea to know where the nearest 24/7 emergency veterinary clinic is located and have the phone number taped to your fridg, as there are risks involved with raw feeding.
You may not believe in science based veterinary medicine, however, when something goes wrong, the emergency veterinary medical clinic are the ones that will be available to treat your dog.

[pitlove]

Hi LovelyBear-

With raw and because it doesn’t seem like you are using a commercial product that does HPP, being as sanitary as possible is important.

Feeding her in her kennel with nothing but the bowl or food in there is the best idea. It can be cleaned and disinfected easily. Introduce her back to her kennel slow. Most dogs love their kennels and look at it as their safe spot. Especially if she’s eating meals in there, she won’t get scared of it.