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  • #118535

    In reply to: Rotational Diet

    RollTide10
    Member

    Thanks to everyone’s input thus far.

    I’m interested in keeping Fury on a kibble diet. So for those suggesting Raw dog food, raw freeze dried, etc. Thanks for taking the time but no thanks.

    Thanks for the input, Pitlove. I’ve transitioned Fury on 2 different types of food and both with a 10-day transition. Transition to his current food also took about 10 days and while his stool was soft at first, now his stool is the ideal firmness and color. The shelter was giving him chicken flavored food, he did okay with it so I figured he’s alright with chicken. His current food’s got Turkey, Duck, Quail so I think poultry is okay for him.

    I’m thinking of either switching him to
    Taste of the Wild Prey Angus Beef or Trout flavored next since their nutrition data are very similar to the food he’s on now.

    I’m just not sure if I should start him on a rotational diet :\

    #118529

    In reply to: Rotational Diet

    Ashish M
    Member

    If your dog is 12 months or over and is severely overweight, then you may want to feed them 3 – 2% of their ideal body weight rather than of their current weight. For more information you can visit our website CDK9raw.com.au and learn more about Raw dog food.

    #118517

    In reply to: Rotational Diet

    Susan
    Participant

    Hi
    I learnt on here “DFA” to Rotate my dog diet, also Hills say on their Vet Diet formula’s when you feed your dog the same diet year after year your dog can start reacting to certain ingredients causing food sensitivities…
    Rotating a dog diet strenghten their immune system, stops food sensitivities also if the food/brand your feeding your dog isn’t balanced properly or is high in contaminates & toxins, then when you rotate your dog diet he isn’t eating the same food 24/7 causing health problems….
    You will see a big difference in your dog coat, skin & over all health, my boy has IBD, if I stay on the same dry food for more then 3 months my boy starts reacting, he goes down hill, starts doing his smelly sloppy poos, so around 3 months I start to introduce a new dry food, I look for a new kibble/freeze dried raw that’s “around” the same Kcals per cup, fat% & protein %, the fiber doesn’t seem to matter withPatch as long as it’s NOT higher then 6%… He does get 2 Freeze dried Green Lipped mussels daily & something different for lunch everyday thats not a dry kibble…

    Patch will be 10yrs old in November & he still acts like a puppy, running, jumping, playing ball etc people think he’s a young pup… He doesnt suffer with Arthritis, I keep him lean & all muscle, he isnt over weight to put any pressure on his joints, he gets walked twice a day & has a very active life for a dog, I think this also plays a big part in a dogs life…

    Have a look at “Canidae Ancestral raw freeze dried coated formula’s..
    https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/

    #118516
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Cline,
    Try & stick with other freeze dried dehydrated dog foods that are similiar to The Honest Kitchen formula’s, there’s a few around, there’s Air Dried formula’s like “Ziwi Peak” but air dried is like jerky & when you add any water nothing happens to the product, then there’s freeze dried raw & all the nutrients are locked in, NO heat is used you add warm water & the food reformulated to its fresh natural self again….

    Have a look at “Kiwi Kitchen” Freeze dried
    http://www.kiwikitchens.nz/dog-food/freeze-dried-dog-food/
    The fish formula has teh lowest fat%

    Have a look at “Canidae Pure” formula’s excellent for dogs with digestive problems & skin allergies, Pure Sky, Pure Wild, Pure Land, Pure Elements, Pure Sea..
    Canidae have brought out a new Grain Free Raw Freeze Dried formula’s, Raw Coated Dry Red Meat Formula with Lamb, Goat, & Wild Boar..
    https://www.canidae.com/dogs/canidae-grain-free-pure-ancestral-raw-coated-dry-red-meat-formula-with-lamb-goat-wild-boar/

    If your dog gets dirrahea from the Ancestral formula then take it back to Pet Shop & ask can you try the “Canidae Pure Sky” formula, it’s simple with limited ingredients & it has NO Lentils, NO Chickpeas, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-sky-dry-formula.

    #118490

    In reply to: Company Reports

    Mike Sagman
    Keymaster

    Hi Takela E,

    We publish only the company reports that have been completed. We do have some raw and incomplete data we’ve collected concerning some of the other companies.

    However, because the information is not formatted into a text based (readable) document, this material would make no sense. And worse… it could easily be misinterpreted.

    For this reason, we do not make any incomplete information available other than what you find inside the Editor’s Choice members-only areas.

    We are considering expanding the company information to make it available to more of the public.

    Hope this helps.

    #118456
    Debbie D
    Member

    Raw is critical for allergies/fungus. I used to be vegetarian so i understand (10 yrs but had health problems.) Primal Raw is freeze dried so there is no smell or mess. Just add it to the vegetables you are already feeding. I use the freeze dried cubes.
    My dogs won’t eat Primal cubes by itself, they are too spoiled, so I add it to what ever else I am feeding.
    Since I switched to raw 10 years ago, our dogs have had no deficiencies or medical issues. Absolutely ZERO! We don’t get fancy, just raw meat and veggies.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Debbie D.
    #118454
    Debbie D
    Member

    To solve this problem and gain enough knowledge (and spend enough $$$$ at vet clinics) it took me 10 years. I am glad to say we have kicked this problem 100%. I am very sad though that my pets had to suffer for 10 years before we found the solution. Several of the answers here are on the mark, however, there are some missing pieces of information. Here are the components of the solution that results in the ear problems clearing up in addition to every other allergy issue a dog may have. You can’t do just one thing, you have to address all aspects of care:
    1. Diet
    2. Flea control poisons
    3. Heartworm and Parasite poisons
    4. Vaccinosis
    5. Chiropractic
    6. Vet type
    We solved this problem when we started going to alternative vets and Chiropractic vets. I spent thousands at the veterinary clinic, hundreds at the alternative clinics and next to nothing at the Chiropractic vets. The alternative vets (3 of them) were all indispensable. One used Chinese herbs, another acupuncture and another (the best) used a combination of modalities including cold laser, acupuncture, Chiropractic, nutrition, and herbs. The Chiropractic vets gave the most bang for the buck but it took to a visit to five different ones to settle on our favorites. Yes, hard to believe, but a spinal adjustment can be miraculous in calming down allergies. The older the dog the more likely they need this treatment. Some Chiropractors also have cold laser treatments. Go to AVCA.org to find a pet Chiropractor. Some states require Chiros to be vets (like Texas) and others (Oklahoma) allow human Chiros to treat pets. There are advantages both ways.

    So bottom line, we now feed NO commercial food but instead feed raw chicken plus a home cooked chicken and vegetable stew. We freeze it in daily portion size containers. This raw food supplemented diet eliminated all parasites (fleas, ticks, heart worms, intestinal worms, etc.) thereby eliminating our need for poisons. Raw diet also eliminated our need for vaccines (titer testing proved this.) Eliminating vaccines eliminated the need for steroid therapy that the vets kept pushing on our dogs. Eliminating flea control like Nextgard, Trifexis, Comfortis, Frontline, and Advantage was a major step forward. These chemicals/drugs were a major cause of itching in our Pugs and we tried them all. These chemicals also caused sores and weeping irritated skin.
    Once our dogs were already having out of control skin issues we had to use shampoos and aloe vera in addition to dietary changes. We switched to duck and fed only (USA) Merrick commercial dog food and this was a major improvement. However, the real change came with the raw. We eventually eliminated the Merrick except for traveling/hiking and emergencies. It took about 3 months to a year of proper feeding to stop the fleas dead in their tracks. We used flea combs and Ark Naturals Neem Shampoo to check for fleas.
    In one dog, we had to get a prescription of Apoquel (new drug only at select vets) to stop the itching (instead of dangerous steroids.) This was an emergency measure because itching causes scratching which leads to staph infections in ears and on the skin/belly.
    The ear itching and yeast infection eventually led to staph infection also from the dogs scratching their ears. To clear this up we used a combination of products over several months. I will list the products and their purpose.
    1. Zymox enzymatic ear solution (green bottle) for yeast/bacteria
    2. Olive Oil drops – extra virgin for yeast/bacteria
    3. Colloidal Silver (10ppm) dropped in ears for yeast/infection
    4. 7-Day feminine antifungal cream (yeast only, outside of ears and bumpy noses/folds)
    Zymox was best for yeast. Olive oil was the best for everything including swelling of the ear canal. Colloidal Silver kicked the secondary infections almost overnight.
    Moist ears is a side effect of yeast infection, not a cause. Swimmers ear is a result not of the water but of having a dietary systemic yeast infection before your dog ever goes swimming.
    Taking our dogs swimming in a creek or lake had no effect on the ears, however, swimming in a chlorinated pool did aggravate the ears and skin.
    The feminine yeast cream has been a real life saver. We use the weakest version and only apply it to ear flaps. If you want Miconazole ear drops, you’ll have to go to the vet for that. But honestly, the olive oil is just as good. The problem with prescription drugs is that they usually only treat one bug, unlike the first three items on my list.
    I hope someone finds this useful.
    Since this is a dog food website, i will give my two cents on dog food brands (never feed dry): Highest quality, readily available brands are Merrick, Nature’s Variety, Primal Freeze Dried Raw, and Orijen. No, I would never feed Blue. I’ve been in the pet business for most of my life and I know secrets about many brands that will make your skin crawl. I will not lookup or recommend any brands other than the ones I listed.
    I am chronicling my personal experiences on a blog so feel free to visit as you like. Snortlepuss.com
    DogFoodAdvisor.com is one of the best resources a person can have for learning about brands. Please take the ratings seriously and only feed to top rated foods.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Debbie D. Reason: missing info
    #118442
    Becca
    Participant

    Idiopathic seizures can be caused by food.
    Holistic and homeopathic is the best way to go!
    Feeding raw does wonders.

    #118365

    In reply to: Getting skinny

    Celt S
    Member

    He’s going to be 10 yrs the end of next month. There’s no “apparent” health issues. He’s fed a variety of foods: kibble (right now: Crave, Instict, science diet oral care, and royal canin), wet (Merricks, Crave, simply nourish, nutro), home cooked (usually whole chicken, carrot/sweet potato, oatmeal stew), and raw (chicken, beef, and pork).

    #118298
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Angel,
    What formula’s have you tried? have you tried a dry kibble that is just Lamb meal & Rice?? a kibble with grains she might have been fed a cheaper dry food bought from supermarket or she might have been feed a raw or cooked diet??
    My rescue was the same he had to be put on Metronidazole 21days & a vet diet for 9 months to get his gut healthy again…
    Have you tried adding a probiotic or kefir to her diet??

    Look for a new limited ingredient kibble that is chicken free, there could be 1 or 2 ingredients in the kibble she has been eating that she is sensitive too??…

    “Artemis OSO Pure” is simliar to Zignature, my boy doesnt do well on a heavy Legume diet,
    It’s best to find a pet shop close by & try pet foods from the Pet Shop so they can be taken back if she gets diarrhea or wont eat it, most pet foods have a palability guarantee money back..

    If you live near a Tractor Supply store look at “4Health” formula’s or “4 Health Special Care” Sensitive Stomach formula, the fiber is 3% but it mighten have anything to do with fiber %, it might be an ingredient she is sensitive too….
    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/4health-special-care-sensitive-stomach-formula-for-adult-dogs-8-lb-bag?cm_vc=-10008

    4Health UnTamed has simliar ingredients to Zignature & cheaper…

    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/brand/4health%20Untamed/dog?cm_re=4health-_-Untamed+Page-_-Shop+Dog

    Keep a diary & start writing down ingredient list & fiber % etc

    #118297
    Jeanine H
    Member

    He’s on Hills Science KD.
    He previously was on regular grain free FreshPet (chicken). I was just thinking that raw might be better. It looks like it’s not. Thank you so much!

    #118278
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Jeanine-

    Lowering protein and phosphorus in the diet has been the staple gold standard treatment for KD patients. Raw diets tend to be high in both, so I can’t say I would recommend going back to his old diet.

    Which KD canned diet is he on right now? If he doesn’t like this one, there are two more companies that make a KD specific diet you could try for him. .

    Jeanine H
    Member

    I have a 15 year old, 8 lb chihuahua named Joey. He’s basically been pretty healthy most of his life, very few problems. He does have bad teeth now, his last dental was over seven years ago because I’ve been able to keep it under control with brushing, but it now really needs to be done. He had a UTI in January that was found on routine exam, he had minimal to no symptoms. He was put on a course of antibiotics, and supposedly cleared, but I noticed no behavior change at all-he was active, good appetite and urinating and drinking normally. In February, I was a little suspicious, only because he was urinating a slight bit more often, but is 15, and it was barely perceptible difference. That test came back positive, and he had another round of antibiotics. Still no behavior change. Nothing that would tell me that he was any better, but he had no symptoms, so he was just his usual active happy self . Pre dental check of urine a few weeks ago showed UTI (still? Or again, who knows), and he was given a different antibiotic, which really showed results-my happy energetic senior because more active, more playful and running around all over! So then he was planning to be getting a dental this week, but it got postponed Wednesday because his blood values indicated that his kidney function wasn’t great. Creatinine 1.8 , BUN 51, phosphorus 7.7. He was put on KD diet, canned. He hates it, but ate it when I added scrambled egg whites. Also aluminum hydroxide twice daily-he hates that too. Question: prior to this, he was eating FreshPet grain free chicken, small dog bites. He absolutely loved it. I’ve read that raw may be beneficial with KD so would FreshPet raw instincts be a viable option for a food if he won’t eat the KD food?

    #118255
    MJ E
    Member

    we got a foster dog (basset, clumber, cocker mix?) from a rescue that erupts in hundreds of pimples that turn into spots that are like quarter size patches of dried peanut butter that grow into huge weepy raw spots. Thousands of dollars later, no answers. His first allergy tests showed about twenty allergens including foods and environmental. Two years later a second test showed almost completely different results. A bazillion treatments later, nothing has worked to slow it down better than baths. He does not seem very itchy, and the sores do not seems to hurt. It starts at various parts of his body and does not go away until it has traveled all over his body, with the first affected areas healing spontaneously but with horrible dandruff as it goes. After it has covered his entire body, it goes away for a few months, then whammo. We keep him shaved. We have tried three vets, tried everything they recommended to no avail. No one has seen it before. No fleas. He is a happy camper, the horrible condition does not seem to phase him. 15 different foods, booties in the grass, nothing changes it, it is never worse or better. Tried vinegar, probiotics, fish oil, selsun blue. Nothing changes. When he is well he has no skin issues. Rescue tried to put him down so we adopted. Going broke, help.

    • This topic was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by MJ E.
    • This topic was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by MJ E.
    #118241
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Deborah it’s gets tricky feeding small dogs like ours. They’re diet is so limited in the amount they eat that I can afford to feed them what I hope to be the best nutritionally. I’m relieved you said that he’s tolerating the S&C. Started with the S&C rabbit and venison a few weeks ago after using primal .So far so good with stools and no vomiting. I know they are intolerant of too much fat. I found this out when years back I would give them some hamburger over they’re kibble and the next day they had diarrhea. Even with lean steak meat. If I gave them little of broiled steak two days in a row over they’re kibble same thing with diarrhea. With canned beef same problem. I’m now hoping that the Rabbit has less calories and fat and my chubby one will lose. But I’m waiting for this raw feeding to all go south if I keep on feeding because of the fat. Stella also came out with a stew so I will look into that.Maybe less fat and I can alternate. Thank you for posting . I thought I was the only one who was concerned about the fat in these raws.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.
    #118240
    Deborah G
    Member

    Following. I have a 6 pound Shi Tzu who cannot tolerate food with a high fat content. I made the mistake of feeding him the raw brand food Tucker because it was rated very well and locally made in my region. My dog has gerd and after a few days on it he regurgitated some of it and then I’m surmising that he must have inhaled some of it and it caused a seizure like episode. I normally feed him Stella & Chewy raw as well as other brands but he seems to tolerate S&C better than the others. I want to feed him fresh whole food and I believe that raw is the best way to go but I too wish there was a brand with a lower fat content.

    #118202
    Spy Car
    Participant

    @aimee, thanks for the comedy routine. I got a good laugh.

    I read the NRC report. It says dogs have no essential need for carbohydrates. None!

    Zero. Zip. Nada.

    Every study ever conducted shows that dogs fed a high-carb diet have substantially less stamina and endurance than dogs eating a high-fat diet.

    Anyone with eyes can see the differences in the quality of teeth between dogs fed a PRM-style raw diet and dogs fed a standard kibble diet. The former leaves teeth clean and white vs the tartar and plaque stained teeth of kibble-fed dogs, 60% of whom develop periodontal disease.

    Nor can anyone with eyes fail to see the body type differences between PMR raw fed (zero calorie) dogs and those fed a high-carb diet.

    De-conditioning dogs via diet–which is what feeding high-carb diets do, as shown in the scientific veterinary evidence does–takes a huge toll on health and promotes obesity.

    As to pancreatic enzymes, of course the “enzymes” themselves are not “confused.” LOL. What happens is dogs become conditioned to releasing ratios of enzymes based on their diets. Kibble fed dogs release a lot of amylase.

    When such dogs have an unusually high-fat meal and their pancreas releases an amount of amylase that is excessive for that “meal” (instead of the lipase that works to digest fats) that excessive amylase destroys tissue in the pancreas.

    Interesting that id cats are recognized as carnivores the same pet food companies that produce cereal-based kibbles for dogs market similar formulas for cats. These companies exist to make profits not to serve pet health.

    High-carb diets rob dogs of their vitality. The are no advantages and plenty of downsides to such high-carb diets.

    Bill

    #118184
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Heather,
    are you looking for a premade raw wet diet, a Freeze Dried raw diet or a dry processed kibble??

    There’s
    * “Ziwi Peak” air Dried raw Venison
    Original Air-Dried Venison Recipe for dogs
    Ziwi Peak Moist raw Beef, Venison, Lamb
    https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition/moist-dog-food

    * “Stella & Chewy” Frozen Raw or Freeze Dried Raw, Pheasant or Raw Rabbit Patties
    https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/phenomenal-pheasant

    * “Instinct Original”
    https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/original

    * “Instinct” Limited Ingredients Kibble Diet
    https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/limited-ingredient-diet

    * “Instinct Raw”
    https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/raw

    Or go online
    “Hare Today Gone Tommorrow”
    sell Goat, Duck, Llama, Pork, Pheasant, Quial, Rabbit, Venison, Turkey etc
    https://hare-today.com/category/meat_proteins_or_packaging_types

    Also if you join a few Canine Raw feeding facebook groups, then post a post asking for meat contacts in your area that sell cheaper cuts of novel raw meats…

    #118181
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you again Spy. I feel like crying just thinking about starting over with new food . I have been cutting the kibble little by little . If I continue to feed a little kibble with their food I will research just a switch to a VERY low carb/high protein and average fat since they get enough fat from the raw. Let you know if I start to see any results. She also have a vet appt coming up and will ask about blood work for any thyroid issue.

    #118177
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Thank you Spy for replying. Originally they were all eating Fromm grain free with a topper of health extension Vets Choice Chicken. Also toppers when I cooked of boiled chicken, salmon and steak if they were lucky that day. Its was a long winter and walks were very limited. Also when my three year old Chi put her nose up at the Fromm and topper Tia would steal before I had a chance to grab it from her. Hence the weight gain. My 16 year old is still her old food which at her age she’s been doing VERY well with. Of course she gets EXTRA chicken etc when others not looking at this point in her life. I finally gradually switched to the Stella’s kibble but really it’s a VERY small amount of her diet. Also cut down to tiny bit of the steak, salmon etc when we ate that because I think I was over doing the amount. So between the walks, treats cut out and her food being cut down I thought by now she would show a trimmer body type. So now you said Stella kibble is high in carbs. Even though it says low. I think her other food was average carbs so I thought I was doing better with that. Below is the list of foods I’ve been giving so far with the freeze dried. It’s ahttps://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058lways dehydrated with warm water. Thank you for your help. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/freeze-dried-raw-dinners/patties/venison-blend https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-turkey-sardine-formula#variant=36371519122https://primalpetfoods.com/products/raw-freeze-dried-canine-duck-formula#variant=35868839058
    Is this kibble recipe lower in carbs? https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/beef-recipe

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.
    #118156

    In reply to: Hip dysplasia

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @aimee, they did not measure a high-fat ration vs a high-carb ration.

    They measured two high carb rations (both of which lack the benefits of a high-protein/high-fat-diet) against each other and found a very marginal difference in weight loss. Differences likely attributable to the drastic differences in fiber in the two meals.

    This study doesn’t resolve anything.

    The reason that people like myself who’ve read the literature don’t endorse carbohydrates in the diet is due to the demonstrated consequences of high-carb diets negatively impacting aerobic capacity and cutting endurance in dogs, in addition to the obesity, bad skin, bad teeth, and stresses on GI tract and organ health.

    There are no advantages to feeding carbs (aside from reducing costs of the feed). Only downsides to health.

    I’m not going to take seriously a study that allows domestic dogs to consume as much raw food as they want as satiety test. LOL. There is enough of the primitive canine mind resident in dogs that I’d be shocked if a dog didn’t gorge when given the opportunity to eat raw meat, fat, organs, and bone. LOL.

    But a raw-fed dog given calorically appropriate meals will not act food crazed. Ask me how I know?

    Such dogs will be lean, vital, and hard-muscled vs the de-condition that results directly from feeding a high-carb cereal-based diet.

    I’ve seen the differences with my own eyes. No comparison.

    Thank you for your interest.

    Bill

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    #118153
    Spy Car
    Participant

    Raw food isn’t “disgusting.” LOL.

    Good grief. Nothing could be more natural than a dog eating fresh/or frozen whole animal-based food.

    What’s disgusting is knowing what little “meat” is in processed kibbles likely comes from products that were condemned at the slaughterhouse, including items from dead, dying, or diseased animals and contaminated by-products that are deemed unfit for human consumption.

    All these are perfectly legal (and common) ingredients in commercial kibble. As long as it gets rendered, any of these disgusting ingredients are perfectly legal for pet food manufacturers to use.

    Ther rest of the ration (the majority) is made up of cheap carbohydrates that have no essential place in a dogs diet and that contribute to ill health.

    Some of the things one reads on this forum challenge credulity.

    Bill

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    #118147

    In reply to: Hip dysplasia

    aimee
    Participant

    Spycar

    All studies are flawed and this is no exception . There wasn’t a significant difference in amount of weight lost .. controlling calories is still key… but the authors did report a significant difference in % fat lost. ” the low fat diet group lost a significantly greater amount of total body fat than the high fat group.” This outcome is not consistent with your beliefs.

    I don’t disagree that people and dogs have different requirements. It is just that people like to drag out the “Dog’s don’t require carbs” mantra as if that is somehow proof that carbohydrate shouldn’t be fed to dogs…Just pointing out the argument falls apart as people don’t need them either.

    Maybe you’ll like this one better comparing ad lib access to either high fat or high carb diet full text may tell more but the high fat didn’t satiate the dogs to the point that they didn’t overeat and gain weight

    Adult female dogs were fed ad libitum for 25 weeks a high-fat diet (51% of energy from fat) or a high-carbohydrate diet (59% of energy from carbohydrate). Dogs fed the high-fat diet gained more body weight than did dogs fed the high-carbohydrate diet. In both groups of dogs 78-80% of the increase in body weight was fat. The high-fat diet may have been utilized more efficiently for body fat gain than the high-carbohydrate diet; alternatively, it is possible to explain the increased body fat accumulation in dogs fed the high-fat diet on the basis of the small observed difference in energy intake. Dogs fed the high-fat diet consumed slightly more energy (13%) which resulted in the accumulation of more than twice the amount of fat accumulated in dogs fed the high-carbohydrate diet during the 25 week study.

    Have you read Schauf’s studies on satiety comparing high fat to high carb? No difference found

    Oh my…. you certainly haven’t seen the same high fat raw fed dogs as I have “A dog fed a balanced raw diet will have a dramatically better condition, less body fat and more muscle.” Do you have any references to support that statement?

    I’m pretty carb neutral neither for or against. For weight loss I like to see a high percent of calories coming from protein and lower fat levels to allow for the dog to be able to eat a decent volume of food and for owner satiety and the carbs fall where they may.

    In general i’m not a fan of high fat diets I see way too much canine obesity as owners don’t control portions, so I’m all for a less energy dense diets.

    .

    #118142
    Spy Car
    Participant

    Ryan, I appreciate the spot you are in getting diametrically opposed advice.

    In the years I’ve fed a PMR style raw diet I’ve come to be able to spot raw fed dogs when I see them. It has happened a good number of times when I met “strange dogs,” and usually getting the “how did you know…well, of course, you know” type responses.

    And I’ve been on the other side, where strangers have approached me and known immediately that my dog is raw fed.

    You can tell when a dog doesn’t eat carbs. Every part of their condition from the skin, fur, teeth, breath and especially lean muscle mass with low body fat is vastly better. They stand out markedly from the condition of kibble-fed dogs.

    Second-best is feeding a kibbled ration that reduces carbs as much as possible.

    Here is a link to the type of formula I’d like to see.

    https://victorpetfood.com/product-items/grain-free-ultra-pro/?portfolioCats=133%2C134%2C165%2C135%2C153%2C159%2C160

    Disclaimer, I’ve never fed this food (as I feed raw) and I have no relationship with Victor’s. It is just an example of a reasonably inexpensive alternative called Victor Ultra Pro. It is a 42% protein/22% fat formula that they claim is 81% animal protein and has 14% carbs. Hard to do better than that with a kibbled diet.

    It is nutrient dense (high calorie) at 479kcal/cup, so you’d probably need to feed about 2/3 the portion of a less dense food (depending). Maybe less. That also figures in cost. The volume of poop would also be cut significantly. Not just nice for you, but much kinder for a dog (especially one with issues) not to move extraordinary amounts of waste through their GI tract.

    Since the fat provides a sustained energy supply, you could feed once a day (at days end) and your dog could then go to sleep instead of carrying around a belly full of food (which is actually really hard on dogs, especially breeds like yours with his conditions).

    The fat in this sort of food would keep him satisfied (w/o the need for obscene amounts of fiber) and would supply steady energy.

    I’d expect triglycerides to improve on the small chance the problem is diet related.

    I would definitely ask for a thyroid panel to be run at the vet. I’m a little surprised they have not done so already.

    I’d resist the low-fat/high-fiber-diet. I think your dog would suffer from such diet. It is no wonder he doesn’t like it. No diet could be more unnatural for a canine to eat. I’ve seen too many dogs on this misguided sort of diet, they never fare well. It is about the worst diet one could feed a dog in terms of nutrition.

    I’m sorry you are getting contradictory advice. But there is no question which way I’d go based on the nutritional needs of dogs described in the veterinary science.

    Best,

    Bill

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    #118140

    In reply to: Hip dysplasia

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @ aimee, dogs are not people. We have evolved with very different nutritional needs.

    Human beings have salivary amylase, for example, the digestive enzyme necessary to convert starches. Dog’s lack salivary amylase.

    it is a common problem that pet owners anthropomorphize their dogs and (wrongly) believe they have the same nutritional requirements and same metabolism we do, but that runs against evidence-based science.

    Fat is an essential nutrient for dogs, as is protein. Carbohydrates are nonessential. Completely unnecessary in a canine diet. Their needs are not the same as those of humans.

    Your accusations of ignoring the veterinary literature are false. Satiety studies involving low-fat rations require loading rations with fiber, which is hellish for dogs. Moving that much waste (and creating that much poop) is very hard on dogs vs the efficiency of metabolizing much smaller quantities of fat and protein.

    I think you are confusing healthful salads and greens that are great for people with what’s good for dogs. And that ain’t a high carb diet. Nothing could be a less appropriate choice for good canine health.

    Carbs are in modern processed dog food to make food inexpensive. That comes at a cost to dog’s health. A dog fed a balanced raw diet will have a dramatically better condition, less body fat and more muscle. A high protein/high-fat diet that reduces carbs as much as possible is a distant second choice, but miles ahead of an unhealthful fiber and cereal-based “low-fat” diet.

    Bill

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Spy Car.
    #118130

    In reply to: Hip dysplasia

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @aimee, there is no such thing as “nonessential fats.” Using the term in this fashion is scientifically incorrect. The fact is any level of carbohydrates in a canine diet is what is nonessential. Dogs do not require ANY carbohydrates in their diets to thrive. And the calories are better derived from essential fat and protein sources.

    Optimal calories from fat are about 50-60% of calories (remembering fat has 2.25 times as many calories per gram as either protein or carbohydrates.

    Replacing too many calories from protein with carbs leads to muscle tears and inadequate protein to build and repair muscle tissues and carbohydrate calories replacing fat reduces aerobic capacity and endurance, while promoting weight gain and tooth decay.

    The reason pet food companies have so-called “weight loss” formulas built around high carb foods (besides the low-quality and low-cost carbs being a way to maximize profits) is that too many people don’t cut back on the amount of food when they feed higher-quality high-protein/high-fat alternatives. But stuffing a dog with a high carb diet is the path to obesity, It doesn’t work.

    It is much better to serve smaller portions of high-calorie food. The fat in high-protein/high-fat meals satisfies a dogs hunger (and provides sustainable energy) where a dog fed high carb meals is always hungry and lacks the energy stores for sustained activity.

    Trying to get a dog to lose weight on high carb rations is a recipe for failure. It doesn’t work.

    Best to get rid of the nonessential calories from carbohydrates that are unnecessary in a canine diet. Just look at the body type of any PMR-style raw fed dog to see the drastic difference eating no carbohydrates makes in promoting a lean muscular body type.

    The best thing one can do for a dog for a dog with disk or hip issues is to get it lean and strong. A high-protein/high-fat diet is the key to that end. High-carb diets cut vitality, crowd our essential nutrients, and lead to obesity and health issues.

    Bill

    #118052
    Patricia A
    Participant

    I have been feeding my Chihuahuas Primal and Stella Chewy’s as a topper. The advisor listed both of these as his choices for his 2018 top choice food list and as being 5*. I was also looking into Vital Essentials and Wysong . Vital essentials has high protein low carbs but AVERAGE fat. Wysong freeze dried has actually BELOW average fat with the high protein and low carbs. Is there a strong benefit to having the above average fat in raw such as in the Primal and Stella’s.Why wouldn’t the raw commercial company strive for their product to be high protein average fat and low carbs. Wouldn’t MOST dogs do better being that some dogs are prone to pancreatitis . Also a good many dogs are overweight or are more sedentary during the winter months. So again..what IS the benefit of the higher fat since these foods have such a high ratings. Is it possible that the company is stating low fat when it’s not? Thank you . Hope I’m making sense with my questions.

    • This topic was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.
    • This topic was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.
    #117996

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @anon101, please refrain from making personal attacks. You asked for vet’s opinions. I shared the experience I’ve had. The name calling is unnecessary.

    You are free to link (repeatedly) to the same anti-raw veterinarian if you choose, but I see the extremely positive results with my own eyes. I have a very happy vet. And a very happy dog.

    I place great reliance on the expert opinion of my veterinarian. She is not a raw food advocate but loves the condition and health of my dog. You have no cause to question her judgement or my honesty in relating it.

    Please stop.

    Bill

    #117992

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @anon101, you ask for vet’s opinions on raw feeding and then reject what you hear, seemingly because you don’t like the answer.

    My dog as great blood work. And is in top-notch health. All aspects of his condition are optimal, from clean white teeth to a hard muscled lean body that makes him look years younger than his 4.5 years. His vet, who as I mentioned has high breed-specific knowledge of Vizslas, is thrilled with his health and condition.

    Science-based veterinary medicine shows that feeding carbohydrates to dogs profoundly reduces their stamina and aerobic capacity.

    Sorry, but you are on the wrong path here.

    Bill

    #117991

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    anonymous
    Member

    “My vet loves what raw feeding has done for my dog. She knows Vizslas intimately and is very encouraging of what balanced raw feeding has done for my dog”.

    Very interesting. Could you ask this vet to come here to DFA, identify herself and express her opinions on the subject?

    Otherwise, I appreciate your desire to express your opinions.
    However. It is all anecdotal.

    Nothing wrong with that, except that some of us prefer “science based veterinary medicine”.

    #117984
    Spy Car
    Participant

    Hey Ryan,

    The best way to feed is always “by condition” rather than any fixed about. That means reducing calories if the dog is too heavy and increasing if the dog is getting too lean. On the last point, Americans tend to have very skewed ideas about what’s a healthy weight for dogs. It is best for dogs to be lean.

    The two best ways to assess “condition” are:

    1) To palpate the ribs with an eye towards assessing the degree of fat layer over the ribs. Ideally, that fat layer is very slight. In an obese dog, there will be a thick fat layer. Either way, this is your standard of measure as you adjust diet. It gives you a “bechmark.”

    2) The other useful measure is to observe the dog from overhead and see to what degree it has a “tuck” (waist). Obese dogs will have very little (or no) tuck. Again, the tuck becomes a secondary benchmark.

    As to diet, feeding low-fat is the worst thing one can do to reduce weight, While it seems counter-intuitive, dogs naturally metabolize fats as their optimal energy source. It was what they were shaped by evolution to thrive on. Carbohydrates on the other hand cut stamina and lead to obesity.

    If you can’t do a balance PMR style raw diet the best thing you could do is to slowly transition to a high protein/high fat (low carb) diet and to feed fewer overall calories while you slowly bring down the weight.

    The worst move is to increase the carbohydrates (by cutting fats) because those carbs (along with overfeeding and diet-linked de-conditioning) are the culprits in promoting obesity.

    Best,

    Bill

    #117929

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    What is your purpose @anon101?

    You can attempt to discredit the experience of others and outstanding veterinarian that have cared for our dogs over their lifetime and run blood tests and done physical exams.

    Too bad the findings run counter to your anti-raw mission.

    Bill

    #117926

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    @anon101, my very outstanding traditional (one with a high degree of breed specific knowledge with Vizslas as she owns the grand-sire my dog) had some concerns when she learned I was feeding my (then 8-week old pup) a raw diet.

    Prime among them was a legitimate concern that the diet provides a proper mineral balance. When I explained my awareness of the calcium/phosphorus ratios and my dietary plan to address the needs, her concerns went away.

    In the 4 and a half years since, she has been blown away by the health and condition of my Vizsla. His teeth are gleaming white. Breath fresh. Shiny fur. Strong and clearly rippling muscles. Eyes clear. He doesn’t smell. He carries no body fat. His stamina is off the charts. He winds down easily when it is time. And his blood work is optimal.

    My vet loves what raw feeding has done for my dog. She knows Vizslas intimately and is very encouraging of what balanced raw feeding has done for my dog.

    He has not suffered from the dental problems, obesity, lack of energy, skin and fur problems, and other ills typical of kibble fed dogs. We had a large “puppy group” who used to meet up almost daily when our pups were young, who still get together. Those dogs (all kibble fed) are beginning to look aged compared with my Vizsla. Not a close call. Other owners comment on the difference. It isn’t subtle.

    Strangers who meet my Vizsla always assume he’s a big puppy. It is what vibrant health looks like.

    I understand you have an anti-raw position. I think it is very misguided.

    Bill

    #117925

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    Rosemarie, the raw mackerel bones are very soft and really aren’t an issue. I feed mackerel frequently, and I’m very risk-averse when it comes to bones.

    If you want to maximize “the chewing” of raw mackerel my suggestion is to serve the mackerel (or mackerel cross sections) frozen.

    If you feel uncomfortable serving bone-in mackerel, they are not difficult to fillet.

    Problems with BARF include:

    1) Feeding too much bone. Bone at 20% does not meet the universally recognized need to have a 1.2 : 1 Calcium to Phosphorus ratio.

    2) Grinding meats and bones unnecessarily.

    3) Too many “recreational bones” that pose risks to teeth and obstructions.

    4) The inclusion of non-essential carbohydrates in the form of fruits and vegetables Dogs have higher vitality when they are fueled primarily by energy from fat (with protein secondary). Carbohydrate metabolism interrupts fat metabolism and is a negative for canine health.

    Also, understand that some raw fish contains an enzyme called “thiaminase” that disrupts a dog’s ability to use thiamine. IMS Pacific mackerel has “thiaminase” while Atlantic mackerel does not.

    The smart way to feed raw fish IMO is to do it is a spaced out fashion (as “thiaminase” is said to dissipate quickly) as opposed to feeding daily. Daily feeding of thiaminase-rich fish can cause serious problems.

    Best,

    Bill

    #117920

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Rosemarie A
    Member

    Sorry for additional clarity. I am not feeding commercially produced raw. I’m make and prep for my 4 dogs.

    #117919

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Rosemarie A
    Member

    Thanks Pitlove! Maybe I’ll try that. I tried deboning it raw and boy was that a nightmare. There were so many bones and I gave up.

    Bill. Thanks for the advice. They get rmbs with barf. From what I recall the major difference with barf vs prey is the ratio of muscle meat due to the addition of veg/fruit (10%). Besides 10% more muscle meat (and no vegetables) – liver, offal and bone percentages are the same with prey and barf. Chewing and tearing action essentially remains the same. I’m far more comfortable with giving them a large leg quarter before fish because of all those small sharp bones. I really want to just give them a whole fish but it really makes me nervous.

    #117917

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    Spy Car
    Participant

    It is not necessary to grind raw mackerel bone. It is soft and easily chewed.

    The BARF model, unfortunately, leads people astray from letting dogs chew and tear their own food. This isn’t to the dog’s advantage.

    Bill

    #117916

    In reply to: Grinding mackerel?

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Rosemarie-

    What about chopping the mackeral up into cubes and adding it that way? Or deboning it yourself? Also if you’re on Facebook, join “The Raw Feeding Community” page. Someone there could be able to help.

    #117915
    Susan
    Participant

    Hi Ryan,
    if your cooking Chicken & Rice start adding some veggies, broccoli, carrot etc & start balancing 1 of his meals a day or over the week add things that will balance his diet over 1 week, in Australia we have “NAS Digestiavite Plus Powder” I had to mix thru Patches cooked or raw meal was just 1/2 a teaspoon & it didnt smell of vitamins, it smelt nice like spinach & kale its green powder & has everything to balance a dogs diet…..
    Take back the Hills 1/d dry kibble, I would of gotten him the wet Hills Digestive Care I/d Chicken, Vegetables & Rice wet can food, it smells really good, its balanced & formulated for a few health problems, sounds like your dog doesn’t like dry kibble, I wouldn’t flare up his Allergies, I’ve been feeding Patch Chicken since March, the Wellness Core Large Breed formula cause the fat is low/medium, protein % is med/high & carbs are low & Kcals are 345 per cup & Patch does well on it BUT now he has red paws, red around his mouth, he cant eat too much Chicken, the chicken agrees with his IBD/Stomach but not his skin… Have you tried “Wellness Simple” Turkey & Potato ? I buying a bag tomorrow, my cat even likes the Wellness kibbles but she wouldnt eat te TOTW kibble also teh Wellness is palabity money back guaranteed…you have to read thru all the Wellness formula’s ingredients for no lentils, the Natural Balance Potato & Duck or Sweet Potato & Fish doesnt have lentils or chickpeas or Probiotics…
    Ive read that Probiotics die by the time we get the kibble or once exposed to heat?? I dont know if this is correct..

    Tin Salmon & Sardines in Spring Water or Olive Oil will help balance his diet, Sardines are very healthy, Sardines have vitamins minerals, Omega 3 are very healthy, just read salt % & buy brand with the lowest salt %, add 2 spoons to 1 of his meals a day, also crush up 1 egg shell a day & add to 1 of his cooked meal for calcium…
    I often buy tin salmon in spring water, for making sandwiched the smaller cans, I drain all the spring water & add a few pieces of boiled sweet potatoes, 1/2 salmon & 1/2 boiled sweet potato & mix & give only 1/2 for a meal & the other 1/2 the next day… dogs love fresh fish..
    I’d look at “Judy Morgan DVM” face book page, look at her videos & “Pancreatitis Diet” her “IBD Diet” she has easy to make cooked balanced meals, you just put everything in a Slow Cooker, then freeze meals, probably healthier then feeding dry kibbles…
    Your dog is smart & he can smell the off meat in the dry kibble or he can smell the vitamins & omega oils in the vet diets something is turning him off…

    #117914
    Rosemarie A
    Member

    Hello!

    This is my first post. I’ve been lingering for a while and trying to absorb as much information as I can with raw feeding. I’ve started about a month and a half ago. I’ve been prepping using the BARF model. I want to introduce raw whole fish to their diet. I have mackerel that has been frozen for almost 2 weeks. I am very hesitant in feeding my 4 dogs mackerel with all that bone. Any opinions or thoughts with using a meat grinder to decrease the chances of getting bone lodged into their systems? I’ve read that mackerel is a bit of a tough bone. They’ve had canned sardines but I wanted to try a non-canned fish. Should I cook it and take the bones out? Anyone have any experience with using their meat grinder for fish? Thanks for any advice.

    #117880

    In reply to: Hip dysplasia

    Spy Car
    Participant

    Hello Jan,

    I strongly believe that raw feeding is the healthiest diet for dogs, but it is not a panacea.

    The greatest benefit would be to reduce the weight of your lab. Reducing (or eliminating) carbohydrates via a raw diet (or mixed diet) helps. Dogs burn fat very efficiently and while it seems counter-intuitive, fat metabolism helps with weight loss.

    The pork femur bones, sadly, are a poor choice, as a bone source. They are too hard to the “eaten” and therefore pose a hazard to teeth and risk obstructions id swallowed in large pieces. Bone-in chicken pieces are far preferable.

    On a budget, you’d spend less if you find whole ingredients and feed according to the Prey Model 80/10/10 (meat/soft-edible bones/organs) formula.

    Chicken feet are a good source of edible bone and do contain a lot of glucosamine. Couldn’t hurt. But weight loss is the critical issue.

    Aim to slowly reduce weight. A raw diet promotes a lean body type. Getting rid of the carbs is key.

    Best,

    Bill

    #117869
    crazy4cats
    Participant

    Hi MX-
    Sounds like ProPlan is a 5 star food for your dog! Just keep an eye on his stools, coat and energy level. It’s impossible to tell the quality of the ingredients by the label. For example, not all chicken meal or corn is created equal. Some meals may have a lot more bone than muscle meat than others. There are also different grades of corn. You have to trust the company to do the right thing.

    I used to think the same as you. But, there are a few posters on here that have changed my mind. I now feed Purina occasionally as well. I mostly keep an eye on the calories, fat and fiber now. I have two neutered labs that can easily get chubby if I don’t. I’m also staying away from kibble that uses mostly legumes as their carb.

    If you do add anything to your dog’s diet that is not complete and balanced, try to keep it under 15% to ensure he is getting all the important nutrients to keep him healthy. I add a little canned or commercial raw to their kibble which are complete. But, then I also add leftovers, eggs, or fish occasionally.

    Good luck! I’m glad you found a food he likes!

    #117782
    Patricia A
    Participant

    Hi Saundra…I feel for you. I have three chihuahuas. One being 16 who has one kibble and topper she eats(with EXTRA cooked food for her when the others aren’t looking) I then had to search for another kibble and topper when the younger one got very picky and stopped eating.Had to find topper and kibble that would agree with BOTH of them so as not to be buying like 6 different brands of food of wet and dry etc. FInally have them transitioned over to the Stella’s kibble and freeze dried raw. I’m able to get recipes like rabbit topper for the one that gains weight easily and duck for the picky one. Sometimes she still needs another topper on top of the topper to get her going. But so far so good fingers crossed. Don’t remember being this worried about what I was feeding my kids when they were little.. I really need some grandchildren. lol Hope the Merrick works out for you.

    • This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.
    #117714
    crazy4cats
    Participant

    Is this a raw or cooked diet? If cooked, BalanceiT’s website can help you formulate balanced recipes.

    #117604

    In reply to: Not sure what to feed

    Patricia A
    Participant

    Well one thing i’ve learned is that what’s best for one dog does not always work for yours. But I recently switched from Fromm with canned topper for my two Chihuahuas. I’m having success with Stella cheesy raw coated kibble but it’s expensive However they get VERY little of that with a topper now of Primal freeze dried. Very east since you just add the little bit of kibble and break up the freeze dried and add a little warm water to rehydrate. Bothe foods got high reviews. Many different protein types being Venison, Rabbit, Chicken, duck and their favorite Turkey and Sardine. Just have to make the change VERY slowly. Also of course whenever I have chicken I boiled some breasts for them with some carrots, string beans, tiny pieces of steak if they get lucky that day and also sometimes we have boiled salmon so get they a topper of that occasionally. We had a mini dachshund years ago and I know they tend to get back problems . So tried to always keep him trim.Hope this helps.

    #117600
    John M
    Member

    Hello everyone,
    I have a 10.5 week old GSD. He is an absolute beautiful pup. We are thinking of going raw. I made the decision to try out this brand:

    /dog-food-reviews/raw-wild-dog-food-frozen/
    https://www.rawwild.com/

    I read in many places that the 3% of body weight in terms of feeding is recommended for adult dogs (and that seems to be the general agreed rule of thumb).
    However, the guideline for puppies seems to be very variable. I see lot of places recommend 10% (my GSD puppy currently is 20 lbs, so I would give 2 lbs of this item (divided by the number of meals of course)). That seems excessive? Once again, I may be completely wrong so please excuse my unprofessional opinion and I apologize in advance. I see other places recommend 7%-10%, and some others recommending 5-8%.
    I know that either answers could be correct and is dog dependent, and can always adjust based on how the pup is doing (if getting to chubby, cut back, and vice versa). However, if you guys a magic number for the percentage of body weight to feed, what would you guys say?

    Thanks in advance!
    John

    #117599
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I have been feeding my 5 year old dog Instinct Raw Boost Dry dog food. I can afford to feed her Nature’s Domain canned but I’m not sure which one would be better. Its the only 5 star canned food that I can afford. Is it better to feed a lower (but still good) quality wet food or a higher quality dry?

    #117570
    Patti P
    Member

    Our dog, Gracie, is a mixed breed “best dog ever” and is 11 years old. For most of her life she has had bouts of diarrhea and has been given metronidazole many, many times. Recently her liver enzymes were very high and she was having very soft stools … like soft serve ice cream. Our veterinarian suggested we try the Royal Canin HP. We had been feeding her Stella & Chewy’s Frozen Raw Patties. She was doing very well on this diet but the vet wanted to try the hydrolyzed protein Royal Canin to see if the liver enzymes would lower. We started with the Royal Canin HP canned and her stools were still very soft … although the occasional explosive diarrhea stopped. I then added the dry kibble Royal Canin HP variety that contains potatoes … I believe it is called Hydroloyzed PS. I would give her ⅔ dry and ⅓ canned. Her stools continued to be very soft. So, about 5 days ago I stopped giving her the canned and her stools are more formed now. I did some research and learned that carrageenan, an ingredient added to canned food to hold it together, can be an irritant to the intestinal tract. Royal Canin HP canned contains carrageenan. So, I think stopping the canned version helped.
    However, Gracie doesn’t really care for the dry by itself. She will normally eat anything but now eats a few bites, walks away, eats a few more bites, walks away, etc. Last night she threw up after eating the dry. This morning she wouldn’t eat it at all. So, I ended up fixing some boiled chicken and rice for her which she gobbled right up. I am now searching for alternatives. I hope this helps with your decision about the Royal Canin HP.

    #117568
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi emmygirl-

    If your dog is truly allergic to all the proteins that you’ve listed you will be hard pressed to find a food he can eat aside from a theraputic diet from the vet that has been hydrolyzed. If that was not offered to you as an option then it is likely that a hydrolyzed diet would impact his PLE negatively.

    It sounds like at this point home preparing his meals using BalanceIt is going to be your best option. Especially if you are working with the BalanceIt team and your vet to create a diet that is specific to his illness.

    My suggestion would be to get a crock pot and cook in bulk for him and freeze the meals. If you are a member of Costco or Sams you could buy meat veggies etc in bulk and it might be more cost effective that way. Most people that feed raw or home cooked meals set aside a day during the week or on the weekend as a “meal prep day”. It can be time consuming, but it allows you to prepare (most people do a months worth) food in advance for him and freeze it, so all you have to do is thaw it out twice a day. That would be my suggestion to you.

    #117565
    Ryan K
    Participant

    Hi Susan! Thank you for all of that info!

    I am not sure that I would go raw or take him to a nutritionist. I might one day but right now I want to keep trying dry foods.

    I should have mentioned before that I have been having a hard time with him and foods since I decided to take him off his old Zignature Kangaroo recipe and put him on rx Hydrolized protein by Royal Canin and Science Diet Z/D. Both of these cleared his skin up immediately but made him incredibly…OFF. He seemed very agitated and unlike himself when he was on these two prescription foods. He seemed almost restless and irritable. Someone mentioned that it might have been the super high % of Omega 3’s in those diets so I got him off of them and ever since I have been trying new foods. He has been a mess since that. I haven’t had him on one food that has worked well. I am not sure if those rx foods just really messed with his gut and now he has still not recovered or what but I need to get it sorted out. I made sure that the Prescription food by Hills has low Omega’s this time because that was a concern. I also noticed that while on the Hydrolized protein diets his poops were incredibly loose and runny. That was a big part in my taking him off the ZD and trying the Royal Canin Hydrolized. I didn’t like how soupy his poops were. He has anal gland issues so I would prefer him to have a food that gives him a more firm stool. But, at this point…I just need his stomach and appetite to normalize. That’s my priority. If I find something that he actually EATS and doesn’t seem irritated by I am sticking to it. He did well on the Kangaroo by Zignature but the lentils make him super itchy and his ears get very gooey and gross when he eats it. I had him on Orijen six fish for probably the first 2 years of his life (he’s 9 now) and he loved that but continually had ear issues…I realized it was the probiotics and stopped and they cleared up. I have had him on Acana which he likes but again…ear issues…skin issues….not fun.

    I did get several cans of the prescription diet you mentioned. Oddly enough, he does not like it! It’s so weird because he normally loves canned food but he sniffs it and turns away. I am hopeful that the fact that he is still eating boiled chicken and rice that that is a good sign? If he’s not eating anything I would be very scared. I think maybe I am overthinking this and giving him too many options and messing his system up. If his triglycerides come back as normal and there is nothing to worry about I will go from there. If that is a problem…I am not sure what the next step is. I think I also need to get him more exercise. He isn’t overweight…the vet says he looks healthy…but, he is very sedentary. I have a fenced yard and he runs around from time to time but nothing very regular. I might start walking him around the neighborhood. Maybe that will work up his appetite and help regulate him a bit more.

    Thank you very much for your amazing help!! 🙂

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