Hey Alexandra –
Because one batch is one meal for my three, I prepare it the night before (one batch). However, it’s fine to prepare up to three days ahead of time. So if, for example, you wanted to prepare one of my recipes it’d be perfectly fine to make one batch and feed it over the course of two days. I know how you feel – when I first started feeding raw I was so scared. The idea that dogs must be fed a “complete and balanced” food formulated specifically for them is just engrained into our minds by veterinarians and the pet food industry. When I started homemade raw I was so nervous that they’d be missing out on things or getting too much of other things. However, I bit the bullet and did it and two years into it my dogs have never looked healthier, so I figure I must be doing something right.
Thanks HDM,
So do you prepare food for a week in advance? I see that you recipie is one meal, so by that, I would get two days from a batch then.
I am nervous about this, but the benefits of 100% raw are to great to ignore. Since kibble teeth don’t look as nice, larger stool volume…great coats though. :). The new Orijen does work well for them.
Thanks for the info on the supplements, I have been doing a little shopping. š
I think the Raw Food Advocates would point out that regardless of the quality of the ingredients, even in the 4-5 star levels for dry dog foods, that much is lost to the heating process. What bodes well for these higher levels is the lack of substandard or bad elements. Maybe this is the void that products like Dinovite fills in. Their product is freeze dried and has not been subjected to the heating process(?). Grover’s Mom quit feeding at about 6 weeks. Maybe if he was supported by his mother’s milk another few weeks he wouldn’t be so sensitive to his diet or environment and I wouldn’t be looking for additions to his nutrition now. He has always been on so called quality processed dog food but something wasn’t enough. To date he has been doing Dinovite for about 10 weeks and no paw licking, no ear infections. I am pretty happy about this direction. One vet had suggested I put him on a maintenance Benadryl type product. A ridiculous solution to a dog barely 2 yrs old.
Just to add another response — personally I’d prefer the Horizon. I really like what I’ve learned about the company and what I can see in the ingredients. I’d personally feel more confidence and trust in Horizon’s products, especially the fish ones.
I agree with the above comments regarding variety & rotating foods.
I’m also a big believer in giving high quality fresh whole foods (gently cooked or raw), to supplement whatever kibble/canned, if you’re not going to feed homemade exclusively or at least part of the time.
They start the first week of May. I was thinking grass – but now I know it’s the pollen. If it aint one thing with him…it’s always another. LOL I’ll get the local organic raw honey. Thank you much.
Honey is good, especially for seasonal allergy dogs. Local organic raw honey is best.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by
theBCnut.
I’ve been fermenting my chicken feed, which increases the protein count and the availability of nutrients. I was wondering if this can be done with dry dog food, or if the meat ingredients would simply cause the undesirable kind of rot?
A link to the forum on Fermentation: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds
I mean, fish can be fermented, they do it in Iceland, right? It would be a good alternative for me to raw feeding, which I tried with ferrets some time back and found to be simply too much work and not cost effective. I can barely afford to buy meat for my family, much less my dog. Don’t get me wrong, she has a good quality food, it just in kibble form.
If you go back to the Darwin’s you could continue to add boneless if it helps her stools and keep the multi. Mixing foods (canned, dehdyrated, raw, etc.) is fine but the same rule would apply – if more than 20% total is unbalanced I’d recommend a multi. I’m sure there are a lot of good multi options on Swanson’s. I would look for a multi that supplies 30% – 50% DV calcium (for people) and give her 1/4 the human dose (this would provide roughly enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the boneless and shouldn’t stop her up like bone would). If you go with a multi without calcium give her a calcium supplement that provides about 100 mg. per day (if you continue to add that amount of boneless). You’re not being dense, it just gets kind of confusing! It took me awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
” If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what youāre doing however Iād recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). Iād give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. Itās just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods Iād be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.” from HDM
I know it is here, somewhere, on some thread but can you or anyone else tell me what a recommended multi is? Not a chewable unless I can crush it up.
I believe we will be going back to Darwins when I’ve exhausted most of what I have for boneIN.
My head is spinning with information however and I am confused as to what I do for a mix (of Darwins and boneLESS). Are you saying that if I use Darwins as my boneIN, I can add the boneLESs as I have been and just add the multi?
What if I want to do a mix of foods, with raw, canned and dehydrated? Do I still need the multi? This won’t come for awhile, need to exhaust most of my Hare.
Sorry if I;m being dense.
Dogs are carnivores. Feed them raw protein, like meat and eggs. Period. End of discussion.
P.S. No doggie diabetes
Lol! Party animal! Lol! Cmon, Patty, admit. Now we’re all gonna find out about the real you! Lol!
Then there’s autocorrect on my iPod, even when I spell it right it still tries to switch out the word on me. Whenever I type my own name it tries to make it party. It is supposed to learn the words I commonly use, I’m not a party animal.
I usually use dictionary.com, especially for work. But, I just don’t care most of the time, & I figure if most of the letters are there, & somewhere close to where they should be, people should know what I mean, and I’m lazy, lol! It doesn’t help that my computer mocks me by underlining the word, telling me its spelled wrong, but won’t tell me the right way to spell it!
& Yes!! Woo Hoo, no runny poop!!
You had all the right letters. That’s better than I do. I’m spelling challenge, I actually have a learning disability that makes spelling a huge challenge. I keep a dictionary app by my side at all times and a know it all 17 year old child and I still find myself misspelling word after word. Sometimes I’ll see something I wrote three days before and all of a sudden I can spell, at least I can see what I misspelled three days ago.
Anyway, take your victories where you find them. WooHoo, no diarrhea today!!
Ha ha!!! Ain’t that the truth! I can’t for the life of me, ever remember how to spell that damn word anymore! I’ve just given up. I spell it different every time I write, but I figure you guys know what I mean, lol!
Diarrhea is the pits, both dealing with it and spelling it!!!
2nd poop today, HARD!! š š š Finally, a whole day without diarreha! (sp?)
I don’t think so Sandy. If she was getting too much, wouldn’t that have the opposite effect of runny poop? I thought her poop would be too hard if she was getting too much bone. I really haven’t been giving her that many chicken legs. & she’s only had a turkey neck twice, tonight being the second time. Thanks for your input though. I really appreciate any feedback, just in case there IS something I’m missing.
Do you think she’s getting too much bone? Chicken legs and thighs and turkey necks have more bone than say – a whole prey that is about 10% bone.
Hard poop – yay! š
And yes – it’s perfectly fine to feed more at one meal and less at the other.
Thanks so much HDM! I tried so hard to figure that out and my brain just goes elsewhere after a few tries, lol! That’s actually about what I’ve been feeding her, maybe a bit less. I don’t exactly know what an “average” activity level is, but that’s what I always assumed. I would imagine it’s ok to feed less at one meal and then more at her 2nd meal of the day, but making sure she’s getting very close to what she should be eating for the day. Sometimes, like when I give her a turkey neck, I adjust her other meal for the day accordingly.
Not sure if you saw what I wrote earlier, but she pooped this morning on our walk and it was HARD!!! š Made my day! Thanks for ALL your help!
Hi Cyndi –
No one’s ever accused me of being good at math either…well at least not calculus lol. Raw food calculations are one of the few mathematical calculations I can handle though!
In general, dogs should eat (as a percentage of their weight):
-1.5% for weightloss
-2.0% for inactive dogs
-2.5% for adult dogs of average activity level
-3.0% for active dogs or dogs of average/low activity needing to gain weight
-3.5% for very active dogs or active dogs needing to gain weight
-4.0% for working adult dogs and puppies (8 weeks – 1 year)
-4.5% – 8.0% for heavy-duty working dogs, puppies under 8 weeks and pregnant/lactating females
Based on these guidelines, assuming Baily is of average activity level Bailey should be eating:
53 lbs. X 0.025 = 1.325 lbs. or 21.2 oz. per day
To factor in her 24 hour fast:
[(21.2 oz./day)(7 days/week)]/13 meals per week = 11.42 oz. per meal
Keep in mind – these are just guidelines, you’ll need to assess her body condition frequently and adjust her portions accordingly. Gus eats about 2.5% of his body weight, Mabel eats about 3.5% of her body weight and Gertie eats about 4.0% of her body weight (with their weekly fast factored in). Also – these calculations are for the meat portion (muscle meat, organ meat, bone) only. Don’t count veggies toward the calculation.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by
Hound Dog Mom.
Ok, need someone’s help, please. Math was always my very worst subject. I’m trying to figure out how much I should be feeding Bailey at every meal. She did weigh 53lbs. when I started her on raw and I’d like to keep her there. No clue what she weighs now, because I had my boss weigh her on his scale and it broke, because he got on it holding her to figure out her weight and he’s a BIG guy anyways. I know she hasn’t gained or lost a whole lot. Anyways, I feed her twice a day and I fast her on Sunday evenings for just the one meal. I don’t think I’ve been feeding too much, and like I said to Sandy, I may be feeding too little.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have been feeding her chicken with just about all the skin off. & she’s not overeating, because I weigh everything. If anything, I might not be giving her enough, because I never really adjusted how much I’ve been feeding her since I fast her once a week.
We just got back from her walk and she pooped! A Hard One!!! Yay!!! Lol! It had a bit of moistness with it, in a way, but when I picked it up, the poop was really hard. So, that’s a plus. I was very excited! I guess I shouldn’t be, but it’s better than what she was doing. She’s having a turkey neck for dinner, with no skin, so that shouldn’t be a problem either, so we’ll see how she does…
Maybe she’s getting intolerant of chicken. Are you feeding with fat on or off? Have you adjusted her portions up or down? Could she be overeating?
I know, right? But I think I’d rather have Bailey poop every other day, lol! I have been going crazy trying to figure out what the heck is going on, but with any luck, I’ll get it all figured out. Thanks Marie! š
Cyndi, regarding my dog, it’s hard for me to be okay with pooping every other day but Ive resigned myself to the fact that may be how she is.
Hope you get Bailey’s problems ironed out. You’re right, frustrating it is! What we do for our dogs, eh?
Marie, she’s never had canned or dehydrated, since I’ve had her anyways. So, I’d be really afraid to try something different again, at this point. I’m gonna try to give it a few more days and see what happens, then if sticking with the raw doesn’t work, your idea and what HDM suggested, sound like the option I’ll go with. I really don’t want to go back to just kibble, even though she was getting Nature’s Variety Instict and Deli Fresh, so that wasn’t all THAT bad.
I have read about the problems you are going thru and I hope it’s gotten better for you. This is so frustrating. I know you know that. But, with any luck, maybe just balancing out Bailey’s meals and feeding her what I know she’s been ok with will do the trick.
Oh, ok. Thanks HDM! I’ll just get one of the herbal stool supplements you suggested, for now. But, let’s hope she does NOT still have loose stools come Friday!
Hi Sandy, Yes, there was a time when she had normal stools. This week starts her 4th full week on raw. She had a problem with runny stools and threw up once right at the beginning, but that only lasted for like a day and a half, 2 days at most. Then she went 11 days with perfect hard, small poops. The only thing that was different in her diet this time she got diarrehea (sorry, I just can not spell that word) was I added a small piece of chicken gizzard to her food. I can see her possibly getting runny stools from that, but not for 4 days, right? I am going to, more or less, start over. I’ll stop introducing new foods and just keep her on chicken thighs and leg quarters and the chicken grind for a bit longer.
So, I gave her breakfast about 45 minutes ago and nothing yet. She didn’t poop first thing this morning, of course, because I fasted her last night, so we’ll see. I’ll keep you guys posted….
Thanks you guys! Happy Memorial Day!!
Cyndi: Can you do a combination of many foods: raw, dehydrated, canned, kibble if you want to feed it? I wonder if that might clear up the loose stools and give her a variety.
You may have read I have a few stool issues with one dog and I think I am going to end up doing Darwins & boneless ground for her raw, plus The Honest Kitchen and am going to buy canned as well. She has no teeth so I would prefer no kibble plus I don’t see the need for her to have it
Cyndi,
Was there a time when she had normal stools? What was she eating then? Can you go back and start over? Give her a longer time to acclimate? Or just give her old food for one meal and raw for the other?
The Dr. Harvey’s herbal supplements are like whole food multi-vitamin/minerals – I don’t believe they’re for loose stools so you could give it in combination with one of the herbal stool supplements I suggested. Good luck!
HDM, I actually had that written down to get when I get paid on friday. I was actually going to get Dr. Harvey’s Multi Vitamin Mineral & Herbal Dog Supplement, but I will look into the one’s you suggested instead…..or both. Thanks again!!
HDM, thank you so very much for your opinions and suggestions. I do still have her on the probiotics. Or, I should say I put her back on them when the loose stools started again, along with pumpkin. I’m wondering, instead of the freshpet tomorrow morning, like I have been giving along with a couple other things, maybe I should give her a rmb for breakfast? She hasn’t pooped since this morning so I am going to be on pins and needles till she does go tomorrow. I will keep an eye on her in the yard and not leave her out for a few days, as hard as that will be. And you are correct (good memory) that she was on Fresh pet, well, Deli Fresh and Nature’s Variety Instinct. I do still have her on the Deli Fresh, which I give her in the mornings along with whatever else I have, like chicken grind, or ground beef, etc.
My gut tells me to ride it out and give it just a few more days. I’ll try to keep her diet as regular as I can and see what happens AND supervise her in the yard. I guess I just needed to hear it from someone else. Thank you HDM, so much. I really, really appreciate it! And if you would, could you please cross your fingers for me, lol! I need all the luck I can get. Thanks again!! Have a good evening!
Cyndi –
Another thought – you could try an herbal supplement for loose stools. I’ve never had to use one, but I have heard of individuals having success with them. Many contain ingredients such as slippery elm, marshmallow root, papaya leaf and licorice root. These herbs help to heal the gut and firm stools. Some to look into would be: Perfect Form made by The Honest Kitchen, Gastriplex made by Thorne Research, Phytomucil by Animals’ Apawthecary, GastriX by Hilton Herbs and Enhance by Aunt Jeni’s.
lassiebaby, go here /forums/topic/how-to-create-your-own-custom-avatar/
to find out about adding a picture. And to post a new topic, go to the forum subject you want, and go to the bottom of the page to start a new topic.
lassiebaby –
Go to the general forum area and click on the forum you want to post under – at the bottom of the screen there will be a box where you can enter a title and post. To get a picture go to gravatar.com.
lassiebaby
Member
can you please help ? how to post a new message and add profile picture. Thank you.
I can imagine how frustrated you must be! If it were me, assuming the stools aren’t completely liquid diarrhea and you really want to make a raw diet work, I would ride it out awhile longer. Some dogs just take longer to adjust to changes in diet. Although I don’t feel it’s common, a raw diet just may not be right for some dogs. Do you have her on a probiotic supplement? (I’m almost certain this has been discussed already, but I thought I’d check just in case). If not, that could help. It is possible that she could be eating something in the yard – if you suspect this is the issue, try not letting her outdoors unsupervised for a few days and see if things clear up. Ultimately, you need to follow your gut and do what you feel is in the best interest of your dog. There’s no reason to feel guilty or like you’re not doing the best you can for her by not feeding raw. If I recall correctly you were feeding Fresh Pet and a 5 star kibble prior to trying raw, while this may not be a raw diet be comforted in knowing this is better than what about 95% of dogs are eating. There are also several non-raw options that, with the addition of digestive enzymes, could be nearly as good as a raw diet. You could try a homemade cooked diet with enzymes and see if she tolerates this better, Fresh Pet + enzymes, a dehydrated food + enzymes (The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) or a high quality canned food + enzymes. If any of these combinations worked out you could attempt to incorporate a RMB 2 – 3 times a week just as a treat and not at the main component of the diet so that she would get the dental benefits a raw diet has to offer.
can you please help ? how to post a new message and add profile picture. Thank you.
I know you said you were out of suggestions &I apologize for sounding so desperate. But, anything you could suggest might help. You have alot more experience than I do & I just dont know what else to do, but I dont want to do the wrong thing. If you suggest that the best thing to do would probably be go back to kibble, then I would probably end up doing that…
Thanks HDM! I’m really, really frustrated, because I don’t want to go back to feeding her kibble instead of raw. Do you have any suggestions? Maybe ride it out a few more days? Give her a few straight meals with alot of bone? I mean, she is acting totally fine, except for the loose stools. She only had one bm today, and it WAS better than yesterdays, and I fasted her tonight. I have been feeding her enough bone meals. Dinner is when she gets her RMB’s and I’ve never skipped a bone meal. That’s why I just can’t figure it out. Do you have any suggestions or do you think maybe some dogs just can’t handle a raw diet? I totally value your opinion and would appreciate any suggestions you might have.
An afterthought, I have been wondering if maybe she’s eating something in the yard that she shouldn’t. She is out there alot during the day. She loves to just sit and watch the goings on around her and I hate to keep her couped up in the house when it’s so nice, I just can’t watch her every second though….
Hi Cyndi –
I’m sorry you’re having such difficulties. š
I wish I could be of more help but I’m really out of suggestions. I’ve never experienced such a thing with any of my dogs – all three of mine had no issues transitioning cold turkey to a raw diet. I guess I’ve just been lucky because every dog I’ve ever owned has been able to eat whatever I feed them – whether it’s a bowl of Beneful or a balanced homemade raw meal – with no issues. I’m always amazed every time I visit DFA at the numbers of dogs that can eat this, can’t eat that, get diarrhea from this, have allergies to that, etc. etc. I’ve just never experienced such things with my dogs..
We’ve been feeding Loki, our, now 5mo Rott/GS mix, a raw food diet since we brought him home from the shelter at 3 months; been serving him mainly Stella & Chewy’s and also Primal Canine, he seems to love it, all varieties. Recently, our local Pet Food Express gave us an individual sample of “Tucker’s”, a new product they carry from a “local, USA company” and “the hook” was that it was “$10 less” per bag…!!! They have a very positive, “pat yourself on the back” web-site and Loki had no problem “wolfing” the sample down, either; was wondering if anyone else here has heard of them and tried their products, and if you have any feedback to share on your experiences….THANKS in advance, looking forward to any replies…!!!
It takes time to figure out how much boneless and bony to give each dog.
Well, I am going to be taking Bailey to the vet & I guess I’m going to take her off raw and go back to what she did well on without having diarehhea all the time. I knew I wasn’t going to be able to handle doing the raw thing. I have no idea what I’m doing wrong & I don’t know what else to do.
Bye everyone & thanks for your help. I hope you all have a nice holiday.
Hi jacklyn –
The most effective thing you can do to repel fleas and ticks from your dogs is to boost their immune system. Vital dogs are less susceptible to parasites (both internal and external) than dogs with weaker immune systems. The first step to creating a strong immune system is by feeding a species-appropriate diet. For years I used chemical flea and tick topicals on my dogs (Advantix or Frontline Plus). Two summers ago was a really bad summer for fleas in my area, despite receiving a monthly dose of Advantix my dogs (I had two at the time – Gus was 6 and Gertie was a pup) got infested with fleas. When I say infested, I mean really infested – Gus had the hair chewed off both his hindquarters exposing the raw skin because he was chewing on himself so much and Gertie was just crawling with them, when I separated her hair I could just see fleas crawling. So in addition to the Advantix I put them on Trifexis (oral flea preventative, with heart worm preventative – took them off Heartguard) and set off flea “bombs” in the house. To no avail. I hired an exterminator to treat the yard and house – that didn’t do any good either. Finally I gave up and we all suffered through the summer and early fall until the temperatures dipped below freezing, then the fleas died off. That fall I switched my dogs to a raw diet (at the time of the infestation they were eating The Honest Kitchen and various 4 and 5 star canned foods). I read online many reports of dogs not requiring flea and tick treatments while on a raw diet because their immune systems grow so strong. It sounded bogus to me but I really didn’t like using chemicals on and around them (I had began learning more about chemical flea and tick preventatives and started to become scared of using them) and I figured it things couldn’t be worse than the previous summer. So that next summer (would have been last summer – 2012) I didn’t use any chemical preventatives. I used Sentry Natural Defense topical (chemical free – contains natural essential oils) and Earth Animal herbal flea and tick tincture (drops that I add to their food made with herbs known to make the dog’s natural scent/blood less appealing to fleas and ticks). I combed my dogs daily with a flea comb and did not find a single flea or tick the entire summer. I’ve been chemical-free ever since and so far so good for this summer too. I’ve been having a snap test (blood test for tick transmitted diseases) done prior to the start of tick season and after tick season and all my dogs have tested negative for tick transmitted diseases each time – ticks are bad in my area and last summer 4 individuals I know had their dogs (all of which were on either Advantix or Frontline Plus) test positive for lyme. I’m now a believer that healthy dogs are less susceptible to infestation.
Some information about the active ingredients found in many popular flea and tick preventatives:
FIPRONIL (active ingredient in Frontline)
“Journal of Pesticide Reform Factsheet: Fipronil”
-In tests with laboratory animals, fipronil causes aggressive behavior, damaged kidneys, and ādrastic alterations in thyroid function.ā The fipronil containing product āFrontlineā caused changes in the levels of sex hormones.
-The offspring of laboratory animals exposed to fipronil during pregnancy were smaller than those of unexposed mothers. They also took longer to mature sexually.
-The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency classifies fipronil as a carcinogen because exposure to fipronil caused benign and malignant thyroid tumors in lab animals.
IMIDACLOPRID (active ingredient in Advantage)
“Journal of Pesticide Reform Factsheet: Imidacloprid”
-Imidacloprid is a relatively new, systemic insecticide chemically related to the tobacco toxin nicotine. Like nicotine, it acts on the nervous system. Symptoms of exposure include apathy, labored breathing, incoordination, emaciation and convulsions. Longer-term exposures causes reduced ability to gain weight and thyroid lesions.
-Pregnant laboratory animals exposed to imidacloprid experienced increased incidence of miscarriage and had smaller offspring than unexposed animals.
-Imidacloprid has been shown to increase the incidence of genetic damage called DNA adducts.
PYRETHRINS (active ingredient in Bio Spot)
-According to CPI, from 2002 through 2007, at least 1,600 pet deaths related to spot-on treatments with the pyrethrins were reported to the EPA.
-According to the website “Bio Spot Victims”: Toxicological studies have linked this pesticide to serious acute and chronic health effects. The EPA has classified it as a possible human carcinogen because it increases the frequency of lung and liver tumors in laboratory animals. It suppresses the immune system. Permethrin is also suspected to have played an important role in the development of illnesses known as the Gulf War Syndrome.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
For a few days this week, her poop was just very soft. Last night it was a bit on the harder side. First poop this morning was hard, then about an hour after breakfast it was complete liquid. I know she’s eating grass outside, but other than that nothing has changed except for the turkey neck for the first time last night. Last week when the very soft poop started, I had given her a very small amount of chicken gizzards. So I didn’t feed that again, just her normal stuff. I have been watching the amount of skin on the chicken (I take alot of it off) and she hasn’t had anything else out of the ordinary lately. Should I maybe give her a few RMB’s for meals for the next couple meals? I have been giving her pumpkin and probiotics with meals since the diarrehha (I wish I could spell that word, lol!) started.
Hi Cyndi –
How watery is her poop? Like complete liquid or just on the soft side? In my experience the amount of fat, organ meat, muscle meat and bone all affect the “hardness” and color of the stool. For example, if I feed my dogs a pork neck for a meal (high bone) their poop will be very light in color and powdery. If they get a meal high in organ meat their stool will be very dark. A meal high in fat will make their stool on the soft side (kind of like soft serve ice cream as opposed to the hard “pellets” they normally) have. If the stool is very watery (like explosive diarrhea) she’s probably eating something that doesn’t agree with her and/or getting too much fat. If it’s just on the soft side but still formed (like soft serve ice cream) I wouldn’t worry about it as long as it doesn’t persist more than a day or two. When dogs are eating a varied diet, their stools will tend to vary as well. And as far as how long after eating something diarrhea could happen, I’d say most likely the first or second stool she passes after eating a food would be when it would hit.
2 months, 1 week ago
