No problem! We’re always here to help 🙂
If you use a pre-mix with a meat/organ/bone grind the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be off. Most pre-mixes are designed for the addition of boneless meat.
HDM, you have NO idea! Absolutely no turning back now! 90% of the food in my fridge/freezer is Bailey’s. She eats better than I do! I know I have you awesome people, especially you, to come to if I need help! & thank you again for your input/opinions on how you would have handled our minor setback. I was all set to just give up the raw, but I am so very glad I didn’t. & I am so very glad I found this site!
I totally missed the phone number on the site but Tracy called me this afternoon and told me what I needed to do. Shes very knowledgable on the Raw topic. I placed my order for ground Rabbit and Rabbits small chunks and some ground Sardines. She recommended no veggies or fruits. I think she is right on the fruits and veggies being that even some veggies have some amounts of sugar and when trying to clear up yeast issues it is best to stay clear of them and she said they are not a part of a wolves diet in the wild so same for dogs. The Rabbit was the lowest fat and next would be young beef which we will offer that at a later time. Tracy said a month at least on the Rabbit then slowly introduce beef and the other meats but she said my girls need to build up their systems on Lean raw before we offer other proteins.
You are correct Patty, Goat is not a low fat but it isn’t really high either. Tracy recommended Rabbit for now since it is a white meat and eventually we will need to feed a red meat. I just wonder if I can use Steve Browns mix with the Rabbit or would that be over kill? I bought 3 bags a while back and need to use them. They are in my freezer right now.
I called the vet just to ask some questions. They said they would like to do a physical, and another fecal test. If it came back negative they would do more tests, like blood tests and testing his gut to see if he is even digesting his stuff correctly or if his gut needs something. I think instead of jumping the gun on this I will wait and on the 18th when I bring him home I will start him on raw and see how that goes for about another month. I will start the fiber if in 2 weeks that he is on raw his stools haven’t improved, that way I know which one worked for him if any at all :). If it fails off to the vets I go. Who knows maybe he just needs a bit more time to gain. I mean he is acting normal, hyper puppy, loves everyone, eats all his meals. If he was acting sickly and off his food I would go right away for sure.
The kennel he is at doesn’t have a scale so they are just going by body condition. I don’t have a dog scale either but usually stand on the bathroom scale and then pick up the dog and stand on it again and minus out my weight. So the true answer of whether he’s gaining even just a little is a mystery.
My vet isn’t totally opposed to the raw diet, but have “heard many people’s pets don’t do good on it.” I assured him that I had done the appropriate research and that my dog will eat raw when he got back from training. I told him if the kibble and honest kitchen haven’t done his stool any good now, the raw won’t hurt him one bit 😛 .
And it sounds like to me I need to be getting some of that DE!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
DieselJunki.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by DieselJunki.
Glad to hear it, I bet you’re happy you stuck with it! 🙂
Just wanted to share some more good news with all of you! Bailey’s poop is still normal (small, solid) (knock on wood, lol!) AND I gave her chicken liver with her dinner, for the first time yesterday, and she loved it AND it didn’t give her runny poop! I did only give her a little bit, but I was all prepared for it not to agree with her, but she’s been fine. Yay! 🙂
No interest in toys. Thought about getting him something to chew on. He can’t have grains and seems the knuckle bones that the vet suggested didn’t keep him interested. He tore meet off of them just left them. Am scared of rawhide
Goat is a low fat meat? My goats have plenty of fat in their meat and they aren’t as fat as a lot of goats I’ve seen. However, their fat is kind of in chunks that are very trimable, not marbled through the meat.
Hare Today’s phone number is on the homepage, almost to the bottom.
Thanks Pugsmom. I am going to see if Hare today will call me since they do not have a phone number k
On their website. Hopefully they tell me more if I should order the Rabbit and or the goat or both or something else.
I would pull the parts that are thawed from outside off of the frozen center and put them in ziplocks in smaller portions, and repeat until it’s all repackaged. Might take a few days. I put a whole 20 lb box of chicken legs and a 40 lb box of chicken necks in the bathtub overnight and still frozen solid the next day!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
pugmomsandy.
Thank you for answering Patty. I am thinking of ordering from Hare Today since they have a couple of low fat proteins that might work for my girls. I was thinking Goat and Rabbit since they would be low in fat and one is red meat and one is white meat so a good variety to start out slow. My question is those of you that buy 5 lb buckets of it how do you defrost what you need and keep the rest frozen?
EVO Red Meats Small Bites and EVO Herring and Salmon (both have egg), California Natural Grain Free Lamb/Salmon/Kangaroo, Canidae Pure Sea, Canine Caviar GF Wild Ocean and Buffalo and Wilderness formulas, DNA lamb, venison or beef (has egg), Nutrisca Lamb (chicken fat) or Salmon (egg), Earthborn Holistic GF Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast (lamb), Fromm 4 Star Nutritionals Pork or Beef (egg), Grandma Lucy’s, Hi-Tek Naturals GF Fish (egg), Horizon Legacy Fish (egg), I and Love and You Red Meat or Fish (egg), Instinct Raw Boost Beef and Lamb, Lamb & Salmon, Instinct Rabbit (chicken fat), Instinct Salmon. Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb or Rabbit. Instinct has small kibble.
Hey DieselJunki –
There are many other ways to add fiber other than pumpkin. Most human fiber supplements are fine (psyllium, flax, acacia, pectin, bran, coconut fiber, etc.). If you do go the pumpkin route, Fruitables makes a product for dogs (they have a sweet potato variety as well) which blends pumpkin, apple pomace, tomato pomace, spinach and flax to get the ideal ratio of soluble to in soluble fiber. I’ve used it as kong stuffing for my dogs before. For pumpkin I’d add a couple tablespoons to each feeding for a large dog.
I’ve experienced the same thing with Honest Kitchen. My dogs have very large stools when they’re eating it and go to the bathroom about 4 times a day (versus one or two on raw). I’ve also noticed undigested bits in the stool on occasion.
I agree with Cyndi on the DE it’s GREAT stuff. I buy it 10 lbs. at a time and mix it into my dogs’ food regularly – they’ve never had a fecal test positive for parasites.
I will definitely have to try that then Patty. I always viewed it as masking the issue but the way you explained it makes sense as well. It will have to be after the 18th as that is when he comes back but I will get a few cans of pure pumpkin. Is pumpkin the only way you can add fiber to the diet? Or can I add it other ways? How much pumpkin per lb of dog do you usually give?
The kennel also called and said that he is drinking a lot. They say they have to pull him away from his water. This is a little concerning. I’ve never really had a problem with that before, but then again he’s never been in this kind of hot weather either. The kennel has a/c but they go out and train multiple times a day and sometimes go on field trips as well.
I do notice with The Honest Kitchen that much of the stuff still comes out whole in his stool. I wondered if any of you guys have fed this food and also noticed this?
As for that earth stuff I’ll have to give it a look into. I’ve seen it on some raw sites but never paid it any attention as I had no idea what it really did.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by DieselJunki.
Since you know your’s may be sensitive, I would start out with 10% raw and 90% kibble and do that for a couple weeks before upping it anymore. If you stay at 20% raw and 80% kibble, you don’t have to worry about balancing it.
For the life of me I have never been able to get Moose’s stools to become firm. They are always very soft, never any diarrhea but real soft. And I mean since we’ve had him at 8 weeks he has never really pooped firm (He has been threw a couple brands of kibble and then The Honest Kitchen). He also goes like 8 times a day. I boarded him again for another month at a totally different facility and while he is there I asked them if they could try and get some weight back on the guy as he is still so skinny. They mentioned to me it could be a parasite due to his soft stools and trouble gaining weight. I don’t believe he has trouble gaining weight I just think the other kennel wasn’t paying good attention to the way you could see his hip bones. I wouldn’t believe he had a parasite either as his soft stools have persisted threw 2 stool tests from the vets office. One was even given when he got all the rest of his shots a few months ago.
I give him Mercola Pro-Biotic and the Enzymes and still has always been the same issue.
Anyways, the new kennel asked if they could do an experiment and feed him 8 cups a day total, 4 in the morning and 4 at night for one week to see if he gains any weight. He is much more active at this new kennel as well. He is back on The Honest Kitchen Love as they will not feed raw. I am not sure if feeding him a raw diet will fix his stool issue as he ate it for 1 week and still had soft stools, and that was before I even gave him the organ mix too.
What on earth could be the issue behind this. Maybe this is normal? I’d try canned pumpkin but I really want to get behind the issue of these soft stools instead of trying to mask it as it’s not a once in awhile thing.
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This topic was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by DieselJunki.
Hi saireah –
Now that your pup is 8 months old I think it would be safe to be a bit more lenient on calcium levels – dogs can usually start regulating calcium absorption around this age. I think Dr. Tim’s would be a great choice – it’s a very high quality food and made by a reputable company. I have also found Dr. Tim’s to have excellent customer service. Although, I feel I should add that I personally feel “recall history” isn’t a very helpful metric when trying to determine the quality of a food or the risk of a future recall. Some of the most reputable companies in the industry (i.e. The Honest Kitchen) have had recalls, often times these recalls are precautionary. On the other hand, just because a company has never had a recall doesn’t mean they can’t have one tomorrow and some companies downplay and/or ignore issues with their foods just to avoid having a recall or remove products from shelves using terms such as “withdrawal” rather than recall (examples: the Chinese chicken jerky issue – there was obviously something wrong with these products however companies avoided recalling the products in spite of numerous deaths and illnesses, the current issues with Blue Buffalo and Nutro foods that are being ignored by the companies and Great Life’s product “withholding”). You need to know the company and know whether they can be trusted – if they’ve had a recall find out what the recall was for, whether it was precautionary (proactive) or whether the company waited until animals got sick before they recalled the product and whether or not the company is a repeat offender (i.e. Diamond – numerous recalls). With that said, some other “recall free” brands I’d feel comfortable recommending in addition to Dr. Tim’s are: Earthborn, Annamaet (as Marie suggested), Victor, Nature’s Logic, Artemis and NutriSource.
Thanks Sandy, & yes Bongo Buddy it did clear up. Here is a link to the thread that pugmomsandy was talking about. The last 2 comments of mine address that issue.
/forums/topic/all-natural-dog-shampoo/
My suggestion to you Bongo Buddy, read, read, read, take notes, ask questions, etc. I researched for about 2 and a half months before I finally bit the bullet and started my dog on raw. I am SO glad I did!
Good luck to you! There is A LOT of information in the forums and you can always ask questions. The people here helped me more than I could have imagined and if it wasn’t for them, I don’t think I’d have stuck with it! It’s the best thing you can do for your dog!
Bongo Buddy,
It did clear up. She posted about it in the “all natural dog shampoo” thread.
Cyndi,
I read thru this whole post, so I’m dying to know if the diarrhea problem is gone? I’m new here & want to try raw too.
Also the reason for this post is mainly because all 4 of mine are having issues with when I let them outside to go potty that they are mainly focused on eating earthworms in the yard and so this tells me that they are not getting enough protein ( 2 of mine that are doing this NEVER did this before) so my reason for adding lean raw in moderation , like 80% kibble and 20% raw to start out with just to be safe??
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
NectarMom.
I have a few questions. I know my dogs cannot handle high fat in raw and I am going to keep them on Brothers Turkey and Egg as the main diet and they have been back on Brothers for 6 weeks but they just smell so yeasty even though they get their tea tree and aloe baths and they are itchy and chew the heck out of their feet. I know since our Pancreatitis episode we have to get past the Candida yeast again since antibiotics but I feel if I just start them off slowly on lean young beef with Steves topper for the added vitamins mixed with the lean young beef that they might benefit from that quicker than just being on kibble 100% of the time?? I would order it from My Pet Carnivore. They just smelled so different than when on kibble. Am I trying to fix this sooner or do you feel this would be ok to try in small amounts?? Please I seriously need some help here.
Hi HDM! Thanks & yes it did clear up, thank god! All week she’s had small hard normal poop & she’s been doing great. (knock on wood) This week I am going to start giving her tripe. I get my next order from hare today on Tuesday so hopefully that goes off without a hitch. I got tripe by itself and I also got the ground beef with the organs, tripe and bone. I’d like to eventually take her off the Fresh pet all together and do the beef grinds in the mornings instead. Even with the problems she’s had, I am so glad I switched her to raw and stuck with it!
Well, I ended up buying Earthbath Meditteranean Shampoo from Chewy.com when I ordered Bailey’s supplements. I gave her a bath about an hour ago & I LOVE that shampoo! (Thanks Sandy!) I took Bailey outside after her bath to sit on the deck to dry in the sun & holy crap does her coat shine! I am amazed! Not that it was that dull, but man, what a shine! & she is so soft & smells amazing! So, she’s been eating a raw diet for a month now, got a bath with all natural shampoo & she looks awesome! She’s got a soft, shiny coat, bright eyes, whiter than white teeth & a very happy mommy! 🙂 Thank you everyone for all your help, suggestions & opinions! I couldn’t have done it without you! I hope everyone’s having a great weekend!
I wanted to comment on your perishable comment: I have ordered raw food from two different online places and both arrived frozen solid.
AnonymousInactive
I’ll leave the advice on raw to the experts, I just want to add that you’d probably save money in vet bills feeding your girl a raw diet.
WW, i’m NOT an expert, but a friend had a St. Bernard with diet /digestion…. I told her about Probiotics & Enzymes and it helped a TON. Along with a few other changes, the dog is VERY healthy , now. I’m NOT a science diet fan, BTB. I think you can do better. I’m sure there’s a brand that meets your vet’s recommended nutrient ratios that is higher Quality. I like Wellness kibble a LOT, but i supplement it – meaning, i get the bagged kibble to make sure she gets all her vit/mins and basics, but not a huge amount. I give her homemade proteins( chicken, red meats, sometimes canned salmon)) and some whole grains/veg/fruits/cultured dairy, rotating the type of each as i go. Not a restrictive diet, fun to feed her, and she loves it. I don’t mix all the ingredients together, she chooses to eat raw egg first, then yoghurt, then meats ….
My friend fed a chicken/grain diet for a week with the probiotics and enzymes. She then added one ingredient a week, and stopped if the dog reacted poorly. This way, she knew just what causing the trouble… the probiotics/enzymes should be full spectrum…. Good luck…
Thanks HDM. He is a heavy chewer with those strong beagle jaws. The kongsickles sound like something that would keep him busy after dinner and stop ‘bugging” me. I have him sooooo spoiled! The raw meaty bones sound good. Don’t I have to be afraid of splintering since he has strong jaws and a ripping method with bones. We got knuckle bones and par boiled them at the advice if our vet. No luck. He pulled at them and knawed. When the meat was cleaned off, he wasn’t interested. Didn’t take long. He doesn’t seem to like raw meat. We tried the bones before par boiling and just got one of those beagle disgusted looks.
Alexandra,
Young Again Pet Food has a raw food supplement for mixing in meat only or meat and bone.
youngagainpetfood.com
Another idea – you can make kongsicles by filling a kong with fresh foods and freezing it. Some good items to use might be: fresh minced or pureed cooked or raw meat, diced hard boiled eggs, pureed fruits, pureed veggies, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.
Raw meaty bones (turkey necks, chicken leg quarters, etc.) or, if he’s not a heavy chewer, recreational bones (knuckle bones, marrow bones, etc.).
Another EFA (esterified fatty acid) is cetyl-myristoleate. I’ve bought Cetyl-M by Response Products and Jarrow True CMO and I give raw trachea.
Can anyone suggest great supplements for a 4.5 year old, Otherwise Very Healthy ,Female Akita who just had TPLO surgery, and will go back in in 8 weeks for the other leg? She’s no dummy, naturally cutting back her own calories when free feeding kibble- due to the reduction in energies spent. I feed Wellness kibble along with a Multitude of Fresh proteins & whole foods. I rotate, advocating variety: chicken, buffalo, salmon, mackerel, fresh caught river trout , a bit of seaweed for iodine, raw farm fresh eggs, some cooked whole grains (everything from barley to quinoa to oatmeal, i rotate), some greens, some fruit & veggies (avocado yesterday). I give a Fish Sourced Omega Oil supplement w/dha (extra now, for inflammation), glucosamine/chondroitin MSM, I’m making fresh chicken broth to give her collagen, and mixing the broth with gelatin for chicken blox treats. Extra protein right now for healing skin, ligaments, muscle. Normal supplements include daily and rotated treats, too: brewer’s yeast, marrow bones, cultured dairy (she LOVES my homemade creme fraiche and yoghurt), probiotics (daily, especially since she’s on antibiotics right now…wellness kibble has prebiotics in it, too), seasonally: fresh raw local honey w/pollen for allergies. Perhaps i’m leaving some basic vit/min supplements off this list, but are there any supplements that will specifically aid in healing, recover, address inflammation, or help reduce pain that i’m missing? The vet has her on Rimadyl, antibiotics, tramadol. Thank you… And if you’ve personally gone through a TPLO with a Big, Young, Active dog, i’d LOVE to ask you some very specific questions, if anyone has the time… I appreciate your help.
Hey Alexandra –
Because one batch is one meal for my three, I prepare it the night before (one batch). However, it’s fine to prepare up to three days ahead of time. So if, for example, you wanted to prepare one of my recipes it’d be perfectly fine to make one batch and feed it over the course of two days. I know how you feel – when I first started feeding raw I was so scared. The idea that dogs must be fed a “complete and balanced” food formulated specifically for them is just engrained into our minds by veterinarians and the pet food industry. When I started homemade raw I was so nervous that they’d be missing out on things or getting too much of other things. However, I bit the bullet and did it and two years into it my dogs have never looked healthier, so I figure I must be doing something right.
Thanks HDM,
So do you prepare food for a week in advance? I see that you recipie is one meal, so by that, I would get two days from a batch then.
I am nervous about this, but the benefits of 100% raw are to great to ignore. Since kibble teeth don’t look as nice, larger stool volume…great coats though. :). The new Orijen does work well for them.
Thanks for the info on the supplements, I have been doing a little shopping. 🙂
I think the Raw Food Advocates would point out that regardless of the quality of the ingredients, even in the 4-5 star levels for dry dog foods, that much is lost to the heating process. What bodes well for these higher levels is the lack of substandard or bad elements. Maybe this is the void that products like Dinovite fills in. Their product is freeze dried and has not been subjected to the heating process(?). Grover’s Mom quit feeding at about 6 weeks. Maybe if he was supported by his mother’s milk another few weeks he wouldn’t be so sensitive to his diet or environment and I wouldn’t be looking for additions to his nutrition now. He has always been on so called quality processed dog food but something wasn’t enough. To date he has been doing Dinovite for about 10 weeks and no paw licking, no ear infections. I am pretty happy about this direction. One vet had suggested I put him on a maintenance Benadryl type product. A ridiculous solution to a dog barely 2 yrs old.
Just to add another response — personally I’d prefer the Horizon. I really like what I’ve learned about the company and what I can see in the ingredients. I’d personally feel more confidence and trust in Horizon’s products, especially the fish ones.
I agree with the above comments regarding variety & rotating foods.
I’m also a big believer in giving high quality fresh whole foods (gently cooked or raw), to supplement whatever kibble/canned, if you’re not going to feed homemade exclusively or at least part of the time.
They start the first week of May. I was thinking grass – but now I know it’s the pollen. If it aint one thing with him…it’s always another. LOL I’ll get the local organic raw honey. Thank you much.
Honey is good, especially for seasonal allergy dogs. Local organic raw honey is best.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
theBCnut.
I’ve been fermenting my chicken feed, which increases the protein count and the availability of nutrients. I was wondering if this can be done with dry dog food, or if the meat ingredients would simply cause the undesirable kind of rot?
A link to the forum on Fermentation: http://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds
I mean, fish can be fermented, they do it in Iceland, right? It would be a good alternative for me to raw feeding, which I tried with ferrets some time back and found to be simply too much work and not cost effective. I can barely afford to buy meat for my family, much less my dog. Don’t get me wrong, she has a good quality food, it just in kibble form.
If you go back to the Darwin’s you could continue to add boneless if it helps her stools and keep the multi. Mixing foods (canned, dehdyrated, raw, etc.) is fine but the same rule would apply – if more than 20% total is unbalanced I’d recommend a multi. I’m sure there are a lot of good multi options on Swanson’s. I would look for a multi that supplies 30% – 50% DV calcium (for people) and give her 1/4 the human dose (this would provide roughly enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the boneless and shouldn’t stop her up like bone would). If you go with a multi without calcium give her a calcium supplement that provides about 100 mg. per day (if you continue to add that amount of boneless). You’re not being dense, it just gets kind of confusing! It took me awhile to figure all this stuff out too.
” If you find that the increased amount of boneless is the only thing that makes her pass stools, you could continue with what you’re doing however I’d recommend adding a multi (it would be the simplest thing to do to ensure balance). I’d give one at about 1/4 of the recommended human-dose of one that would provide about 100 mg. calcium for that dosage. It’s just with 75% of the diet being un-balanced foods I’d be concerned about her getting adequate levels of vitamins and minerals.” from HDM
I know it is here, somewhere, on some thread but can you or anyone else tell me what a recommended multi is? Not a chewable unless I can crush it up.
I believe we will be going back to Darwins when I’ve exhausted most of what I have for boneIN.
My head is spinning with information however and I am confused as to what I do for a mix (of Darwins and boneLESS). Are you saying that if I use Darwins as my boneIN, I can add the boneLESs as I have been and just add the multi?
What if I want to do a mix of foods, with raw, canned and dehydrated? Do I still need the multi? This won’t come for awhile, need to exhaust most of my Hare.
Sorry if I;m being dense.
Dogs are carnivores. Feed them raw protein, like meat and eggs. Period. End of discussion.
P.S. No doggie diabetes
Lol! Party animal! Lol! Cmon, Patty, admit. Now we’re all gonna find out about the real you! Lol!
Then there’s autocorrect on my iPod, even when I spell it right it still tries to switch out the word on me. Whenever I type my own name it tries to make it party. It is supposed to learn the words I commonly use, I’m not a party animal.
I usually use dictionary.com, especially for work. But, I just don’t care most of the time, & I figure if most of the letters are there, & somewhere close to where they should be, people should know what I mean, and I’m lazy, lol! It doesn’t help that my computer mocks me by underlining the word, telling me its spelled wrong, but won’t tell me the right way to spell it!
& Yes!! Woo Hoo, no runny poop!!
You had all the right letters. That’s better than I do. I’m spelling challenge, I actually have a learning disability that makes spelling a huge challenge. I keep a dictionary app by my side at all times and a know it all 17 year old child and I still find myself misspelling word after word. Sometimes I’ll see something I wrote three days before and all of a sudden I can spell, at least I can see what I misspelled three days ago.
Anyway, take your victories where you find them. WooHoo, no diarrhea today!!
Ha ha!!! Ain’t that the truth! I can’t for the life of me, ever remember how to spell that damn word anymore! I’ve just given up. I spell it different every time I write, but I figure you guys know what I mean, lol!
