[Jjennilee]

Nice to know I am not alone my boys are grown one 35 and the other 23 this year but my fur babies are my current reason to be home LOL… but i will take it …Its never a dull moment anyone that says being a stay at home wife and mom isnt work has never experienced it for sure…

Tried the Honest Kitchen today… No go smells like horse feed and they wont go near it LOL… so on to the next one… only reason we tried that one is the shop we went into didnt have the doc harveys yet and we got samples…

We have taken away all treats now and rawhide as i understand rawhide can be a problem ?
and i guess tomorrow we will try basic beef again… I am so lost as to what to do for these two…

[Naturella]

robertdee,

Thanks for the link! I will definitely look into this product!

So, I looked up the guaranteed analyses of the current mix of food I feed Bruno (Dr. Tim’s, Nutrisca Chicken, and Vets Choice HHE GF), and their fiber contents are 4.5%, 7%, and 5% max respectively. So the mix is actually kind of good on fiber.

I have been adding all kinds of stuff to his kibble though, such as plain yoghurt, pumpkin, ground flax seeds, the usual coconut oil and once-a-week RMB, his first marrow bone (raw, and the bone is still around for gnawing and chewing on), cottage cheese, raw egg, and canned sardines, as well as the occasional dehydrated natural chews (ears, bully sticks, fish skins, chicken necks, lamb tendons, etc.). I am going to develop a schedule for adding all these in his weekly meals so that the additional calories, fat, fiber, and protein are somewhat evenly distributed in his diet. I am also cutting down his kibble to 3/4 cup from 1 cup because of the additives, but I will make sure the calorie intake stays about the same.

So far his poops have overall improved, and I have a feeling it is the additional moisture, and the yoghurt. I always keep plain yoghurt at home (love the stuff), so Bruno will have access to it too, just have to figure out how often. But yes, I feel like we are on track with fixing his stool and/or any digestion problems he may have had. 🙂

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with what everyone above has said. My dogs get virtually no exercise here, as well, so I understand where you’re coming from. I did find that my 1 Cav that needed to lose a little actually lost a whole pound when I just cut out some of the treats she was getting. And there weren’t all that many! It sounds like Nutrisource (which I think is a fine food) might be one to consider again. Primal is one of my favorite premade raws, and I’ve used Stella & Chewy’s, but only the freeze dried version. Good luck to you! I love Spaniels! 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[SpanielMom]

My favorite raws are Stella & chewy’s & primal, they both have good veggies in it. The nice thing about primal is that they have the 1 oz nuggets and their “pronto” forms that make using it as a topper really easy. I know I’ve heard people on here saying they like Darwin’s raw but I’ve never personally tried it because it’s not readily available in my area. And yeah, try giving stuff like carrots or freeze dried liver/lung as treats, they are nutritious and low calorie!

[Lori]

Thanks spaniel mom. I’ve never owned a cocker before I adopted Teddy 1-1/2 years ago. I probably just need to cut out some extras and the food a bit. What kind of raw do you use as a topper. I have fed my lab in the past both Nutrisource and Pure Vita and he did well and not too hard on the pocketbook!

[SpanielMom]

I have two English cockers and they did well losing weight on grain free food + raw as a topper. Took me a few weeks to introduce them to raw because cockers tend to have a little more sensitive tummies in my experience, but it has been the best thing on earth to keep weight steady. My cockers have done well on the nutrisource brand as well – grain free nutrisource and also the PureVita – 28% and 24% protein, respectively. I like the grain free nutrisource because it is pretty easy on the pocket as long as your dog has no sensitivity to chicken.

Also – my cockers are not very active either right now because I also have a dog recovering from heartworm who has to be on cage rest and I don’t think it’s fair to take the others out to play and leave her there. 🙁 poor thing. My cockers have done fine on low activity (past 5 months so far) since I started adding a little raw. And I definitely agree with Melissaandcrew, just cut back on the kibble a bit if someone is looking chunky. 🙂

[Melissaandcrew]

I feed a lot of grain free foods toy crew (99 percent of the time) as well as raw etc. The average protein content of the dry I feed is around 31 to 33 percent. While I have a huge fenced yard there are no winter track stars here either, lol. I just cut back on amounts if someone is looking hefty.

[NicoleJ]

She is peeing normally, normal amounts, normal color/smell, regular frequency.

She did start licking her paws this past year, could be anxiety related, she has been going a bit senile the past year so things that didn’t use to bother her seem to. But the hair that is in her stool is a mix of her hair and human hair and it’s quite a bit of human hair, so more than just the odd piece stuck to her foot. She did have some kidney work done not too long ago and everything was normal, she was suffering from spay incontinence. I am wondering if there is some sort of hormonal imbalance causing many of these issues as a year and a bit ago she had a mystery illness that ended up being mange which obviously shouldn’t be happening unless there was something messing with her immune system. She has about 20 skin tags as well… had a UTI along with the spay incontinence… so something is out of whack. And I know that hormonal issues can cause digestive problems… so makes me wonder if there is a tumor or something messing with the endocrine system.

As for what she eats… it’s a mixed bag LOL.. I get my raw food from a local raw diet company, they do frozen premixes so I tend to grab a variety. At the beginning of the year when the stool issues were first starting I believe she was getting turkey, with organs, some veg and cranberry, I also throw in sardines here and there, and was giving her canned pumpkin when things were causing issues but it made no difference. Since then she’s had a few other things… chicken, lamb, beef, goat, venison, duck. Doesn’t seem to matter what she eats, her stools don’t change, the only time they do is if she is getting too much bone matter ( I give her a marrow bone to chew on every day, and have to make sure there isn’t much “powdery marrow” or her stools will be little chalk balls.)

[Sharon Buchanan]

Thanks, Sue. Do you have a link to the online database that you’re using? I’ll look for Steve Brown’s book, just received Dr. Becker’s.

Have you been over to the Facebook page for conference attendees? I was surprised, but encouraged by the some of the folks who’ve signed up for the conference that have been feeding raw for 20 years or more. We definitely made the right decision!

Everyone’s already talking about their dogs, networking for sources – I even got a tip that has led me to a number of local farms that sell to “regular” folks, and sharing their experience.

Completely agree with your last paragraph. I just don’t know what to do with everything I know yet. I have a few “a ha” moments, work on that and then something else comes up and I’m off researching that more. I’ve got a list of questions going for the conference.

[Dori]

Have you asked your vet to check her kidneys? Is she having any skin issues or anxiety of any kind that she would be licking herself and ingesting her hair that way? Just trying to think of things off the top of my head. My girls are on a raw diet and true they don’t drink as much water as they used to when they were on dry but they certainly do drink enough that I’m having to give more water. Is she urinating as she should and are you able to tell if her urine has gotten any darker?

[SpanielMom]

I have a super hardy aussie/lab named Abby who lived on the street until she was about a year old, and she has always been able to eat anything, strongest stomach of any dog I’ve ever had. I rotated proteins regularly and she has never had any issues before. Fast forward, I got a bag of evanger’s gf chicken and sweet potato free from a rep and after I got through about 2/3 of the bag, Abby and my two cockers started getting scabs and bumps and were always chewing at themselves and scratching constantly. I immediately switched them off the food and went to Acana duck and pear, which they had done well on before. My two cockers got better almost immediately, but Abby seems to have gotten worse. I then tried Acana lamb and apple, and switched her raw food (she gets half kibble and half raw) to primal lamb. She has been getting that for about 5 days and I still don’t notice a change. I just don’t know what to do. This is so out of the blue and unlike her. Could it be something besides the food? Please help.

Only other info I can imagine would possibly have to do with this is:
-she recently moved with me from Missouri to Arizona (about a year ago), and it is springtime but I can’t imagine it’s seasonal allergies.
-she also gets pure salmon oil & plaqueoff daily.

[NicoleJ]

Hi all,

I’m new here, was just looking for a dog forum that encompasses health and diet and had a number of raw feeders so hopefully I’ve come to the right place.

My dog’s name is Dacey, she is a coming 13 year old miniature smooth Dachshund.

Earlier this year she was very “off”.. depressed, lethargic and seemed to be in some sort of discomfort. Her poops were very abnormal ( mostly very thin, or absolutely FULL of hair). But after she passed a few hair balls she was back to her normal self after a few days. Then, about a month later, she had a mysterious front leg lameness(she wouldn’t put any weight on her right front) that also went along with her not pooping for almost 2 days. When I took her to the vet and we determined there was nothing obviously wrong with her leg, but her anal sacs were full.. he dealt with those and voila, she can walk again! LOL. But her poops still aren’t entirely “normal”. She is still having intermittent narrow poops, or very dry “pellet” poops, or very mucusy wet poops, and she still has a lot of hair in them! (im guessing she must be picking it up off the floor, but it’s still weird cause some poops are really full of it and I have never seen her walking around eating things off the floor, so she must be doing it when I’m not home? ) She is raw fed… I’ve been trying to make sure she isn’t getting too much bone material in her food because that definitely causes very dry hard poops. Years ago when she was kibble fed I had to make sure she was getting a high fibre diet because her anal glands would randomly leak if she didn’t get at least 5-7% fibre. But she also pooped 3-4 times a day with that diet. Now she only poops once a day most of the time, and they are much smaller and harder, but she doesn’t have the anal glad leakage either, actually the opposite problem, her anal gland secretions are very thick and may be blocking her ability to poop properly.

I’ve also notice she isn’t drinking nearly as much as she used to. At first I chalked it up to the amount of extra moisture she gets from the raw food, and less fibre, but because she is having these pooping issues, I’m not sure she is getting enough water. She used to drink tons, I’d always have to keep a water dish full in my car for her and now she rarely drinks at all even if we are gone all day on road trips (she is my sidekick, always comes with me for work). When I give her the pinch test her skin isn’t snapping back into place, it hasn’t been for quite a while, but isn’t too bad. She still is full of energy, eats well etc. It’s just the weird pooping issues which makes me think she isn’t drinking enough due to the consistencies. Today I started adding water to her food and will see if that helps. I’m not used to having an older animal who isn’t drinking enough, usually it’s the opposite- Kidney issues and drinking a ton!

anyone else deal with these issues and an older dog?

thanks
Nicole and Dacey

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[Evonne]

Sue66b…Yes, the vet took a blood sample and sent it off to a special lab for testing. It tells you what they are allergic to, and even things that are borderline allergies. Now, we just have to figure out what to feed him!
Shasta220, I’m not sure that I want to go raw, but I am seriously considering cooking for my dog. I have a frien who has traveled down this road. We spent a long time talking about home cooking. I feel more confident that I can do this now. ;0)

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sharon Buchanan]

In the numerous raw topics and posts here on DFA and in particular, this topic on recipes, great attention is paid to supplementing raw meats/poultry with veggies, vitamins and others. In reading articles elsewhere on feeding whole prey, we’re told that dogs don’t eat veggies (of course, I’ve never seen a dog take down a cow either), so making sure they get the whole chicken over time or the whole rabbit over time, among others, should provide them with a balanced diet. These two diet/recipe concepts seem contradictory.

Now, I do supplement with coconut oil, curcumen, a c-complex and garlic for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere, in addition to the obvious ones. I’ve taken the advice of Patty and finally found a grocery that carries kafir (which may be hard to continue because the smell gives me indigestion and Mystery reeks of it all day), and I give Mystery a whole egg occasionally – cracked over a coarse grind with the shell.

If I may, I’d like to list the raw meats I have on hand and get some suggestions on the best way to combine them, add to them, improve something or another. I’m hoping to get half a cow in a few weeks from a local farm, but until then I’ve been ordering from MPC. So here’s what I have right now:

Ground Beef Tripe Supermix
Ground Whole Young Beef
Coarse Ground Whole Rabbit
Coarse Ground Whole Chicken
Whole Turkey Necks – they’re huge
Duck Necks
Chicken Feet
RMBs – emphasis on RM
Marrow bones from my local grocery

Mystery’s adult healthy weight averages 85 lbs. (UK Kennel standards (not AKC) for English Creme Golden Retrievers). I had to take my kitten to the vet yesterday and took Mystery with me to get his weight 56.4 lbs – exactly what he weighed at the beginning of January. He’s grown longer as his breed would but his ribs, while not visible, are easily felt. He’s 11 months old. Talked it over with the vet and she wondered if he was a runt – we wondered together. I’ve been feeding him just under 3 lbs. a day over two meals.

So, I guess what I need to know is how to balance the foods listed, whats missing from my raw “pantry”, as well as any ideas on how to bulk him – not a lot, but more than he is. I expect him to reach full growth at about 18 months.

Thanks in advance! Seems the more I know, the less I know.

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[Beth Whitcomb]

I was feeding Natures Variety and he has become outrageously expensive even though I love the product so I am switching to K9 cravings. I did a comparison of the 5 star Beef from Natures Variety with the 2.5 star K9 cravings and remain confused .
Natures Variety Dry matter K9 Cravings
Protein 15% 23% Protein 14. 4 % 23%
Fat 12% 18% Fat 18.3% 30%
Fiber 3 % Fiber 1.1 %
Moisture 65 % Moisture 62.5%

I have asked Mike to explain and he suggested I post and maybe someone can provide me with an explanation. There is no problem with the meat sources or recommended balance so I cannot figure out the big discrepancy in ratings.

[Lablubber]

Hi Again Crew

So can I also ask without sounding stupid… Why can’t a person who does the raw diet for their dogs, just buy their raw meat stuff through a reputable meat market and get the additives/suppliments through a speciality pet supply to add to their food… Is it just the cost difference? Or what is the reasoning behind it? Just curious???

The Lablubber

[DogFoodie]

Hi Jeff,

I would also rotate proteins for a wider variety of amino acids.

I believe that the one thing that James from Darwin’s encourages with regular rotational feeding of a variety of their products is adding a sardine to your dogs food every other day. Tinned sardines are fine and they’re the best source of Omega 3’s which are generally lacking in most diets.

You might also consider getting some of Darwin’s raw green tripe with your next order. Raw green tripe is full of amino acids, digestive enzymes and lots of nutrients. Darwin’s sells it in one pound packages and you can easily add it to a meal or serve as a meal.

[Naturella]

Marie,

Wow. Thank you for the information! I was hoping this affordable, somewhat local raw would be a good choice, but I guess it may be a bit iffy… I may stick to grocery store raw – it should be at least fit for human consumption, so it will be good enough for Bruno.

[InkedMarie]

This was posted this morning on a FB group I am on:

Anybody find out anymore info on Blue ridge beef products? The new (and only) coop that started delivering to my area sells their products, along with other non commercial raw products. I don’t feed much ground, but they have quail (at an oddly low price), and that would be another protein source I can add to my dogs current variety. Both of whom loved the quail I gave them last night.

I’ve read the info out there on the web (good and bad) and then emailed the owner Steve with my questions.

My email. . .

“Hi Steve, I’m sure you get this a lot but I would really appreciate if you could answer a few questions I had, and clear up some confusion.

I know that you own BRB as well as Lea way Inc./Lea way Farms, I’ve read from the Iredell county commissioner minutes on the Iredell county government website archives that Lea Way Inc., is in the business of animal removal from local area farms and recycles it for pet food for Grey hound racing tracks in FL. At least you were as of May 2006.
http://www.co.iredell.nc.us/Departments/Planning/minutes/April2006pbminutes.pdf
Page 6
”Lea-Way Company picks up deceased cattle from area farms and provides a means for sanitary disposal; the existing plant processes useable materials into pet food products”

http://www.co.iredell.nc.us/Commissioners/minutes/Regular/May_9_2006_regular_minutes.pdf
Page 4 notes from that meeting stated. . .
”Lea said since 1979, his company had helped to recycle dead animals, at no cost to the county or state.”

“Commissioner Robertson asked about the process — muscle tissue removed from
the carcass. Lea said this was correct, and the tissue was boxed, frozen, labeled, and shipped to the Greyhound Tracks in Florida as pet food.”

Are the Iredell county documents correct in their information or were they at the time they were written correct? Are BRB and Lea Way Inc. connected in any other way besides sharing a mailing address? Is Lea way Inc. still in the practice of collecting downed animals and recycling them for petfood products for greyhound racing? If not, what happens to all the muscle meat you process from the downed animals you pick up, if it’s not going into pet food products? Are you still greyhound breeding for racing?

If the information is correct, I’m curious why one company produces pet products/food from picked up dead animals, and why your other company BRB would have a different meat quality standard?

I would really appreciate some information, and I’m hoping you reply back and answer my questions directly and honestly.

Thanks for your time and possible rely”

His response:

“Steve Lea’s reply. . .

Hello Lola
I will try to give you a short direct answer?
This was an attempt by me 8 years ago to take material that is unusable for ANYTHING, and turn them into renewable fuels.
I see that now you have dug up the commissioners Minutes as well.
If you read them you will see it was tabled and then withdrawn,
None of this happened then and is not happening now, and has NOTHING to do with BRB, or the products in BRB…
There is no 3-4D in Any of our products..
The internet is full of old outdated information that is no longer the case.
Some people have spent allot of time digging up this old outdated information and attempting to link it to BRB
to attempt to destroy it
WHY????????
I have answered these questions hundred’s of times only to find my words turned around and misrepresented on chat sites
I WILL NO LONGER ADDRESS THIS ISSUE!!!!
If you choose to believe these internet bullies and not feed BRB we wish you and your pets the best.
If you choose to believe your own eyes and your pets health and feed BRB we thank you for your business and support
Steve.”

A response like that would cause me to cross them off my possible dog food list.

[Naturella]

Oh, my goodness, I absolutely feel the same way – I REALLY need to watch my nutrition and exercise as closely as I watch Bruno’s, so I can be around him and my husband and I’s future human and furry babies longer…

But yes, I have stocked up on Earthborn and Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension for DAYS – a total of 42 lbs of Earthborn (3 varieties @ 14 lbs each), and a total of 12 lbs of HHE (3 varieties @ 4 lbs each), so 54 lbs so far, and I want to now get Victor Ultra Pro (GF) and the Yucon Salmon GF, 15 lbs each – that will be a total of 84 lbs of food for $110 altogether (great coupons I got). I also plan to add raw ground, RMBs, and marrow bones for gnawing as well as dehydrated natural chews… I am a mess… I need to REALLY stop shopping for Bruno after I get the last of Victor, and raw… And watch those “Best by: ” labels!

But yes, if you ever want to come up to Kennesaw to go to that store, and would like to meet up (there is also a great park with dog off-leash areas really close by), you can let me know if you want. You can add me on Facebook, my name is Aleksandra Ninova. 🙂

[Naturella]

Thank you, Marie!

P.S. I found an AMAZING pet food store (mostly for cats and dogs), 5 min away from home, and they sell raw – Blue Ridge Beef, which sounds pretty local for Georgia. I am beyond pumped! It seems very affordable – 3-4lbs frozen ground meat, organs, bones, tripe, and eggs for $5-something! I am in love with this place, let alone the super affordable natural raw and dehydrated chews! 🙂 🙂 🙂

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jeff ~
Pretty soon I’m going to get accused of being on their payroll (I’m not), the way I keep going on about it, but I’ve signed up for Raw Roundup, an online conference at the end of this month with speakers who are experts on raw feeding. It’s hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com. I just started my 11 month old Golden on raw and everyone here has been so very helpful. I’m hoping the conference will give me an additional arsenal of information to ensure I’m feeding my pup the absolute best I can.

[llynns]

Would foods with pseudo grains be ok to feed when trying to eliminate all grains from the diet? I have a dog who is in remission with thyroid carcinoma and I know raw would be the optimum….and, I’m researching my options. But, until then – I’m looking for some dry foods to add for rotation. I currently feed Horizon Legacy Salmon and have had great results. I was considering Nature’s Logic but, I noticed it contains millet. Any thoughts on other options and feeding pseudo grains?

[InkedMarie]

Hi Jeff,
It’s best to feed a variety of proteins, even in raw. So, next order, get a mixture. As for supplements, I don’t think you have to add much, I’d suggest salmon oil & eggs a couple time a week. Some give digestive enzymes & probiotics which aren’t necessary but sure can’t hurt. Darwin’s has good customer service, give them a call!

[Jeff33]

I just wanted to say how much I appreciated all the valuable information that everyone has posted on this site. I am a new dog owner..my baby Tioga (English springer spaniel) turns one in a week. I found this site by researching the best type of dog foods available for him. I recently purchased some Orijen red because I thought that was the best food. I’ve since realized that I was wrong and I would like to feed him a raw diet because it’s the healthiest option. I don’t want to make my own raw meals. I’m going with Darwin’s. Here are my questions:

1. Can I feed him Darwin’s (chicken) everyday, without rotating? I thought rotating was only for canned and kibble due to the toxins.

2. Do I need to add anything else to his diet? I know I need to add some bones for his teeth and there are already enzymes in the meat so I don’t need to add that. What about probiotics?

I guess what I’m asking is what is the most basic diet, I was worried that just feeding him Darwin’s isn’t enough, I don’t want him to miss out on any necessary vitamins, minerals etc. due to my lack of knowledge.

Thanks for your help,
Jeff

[treizi]

So once again, I’m on the hunt for some new food. Koda’s an almost 10 year old Papillon with some random tummy issues that we haven’t been able to pin down. The vet has mentioned early pancreatitis possibilities as well as stomach acid issues. Symptoms are random and vary but basically will alter from diarrhea, stomach bloat and/or gurgling and bile spit up.
Since full blown pancreatitis isn’t a concern (yet), I’m not willing to go on a prescription diet since it might not even be an issue, but I’m hoping to find a good alternative that is just healthier all around. Koda has been eating the grain free duck from Lotus and while he seems to do OK on it, he doesn’t love it and tends to free feed.

I’m looking in to raw/wet but confused about the fat content conversions with raw in particular. Since he’s getting a bit older and has these stomach issues, I’m searching for something that is lower in fat. I’ve considered Honest Kitchen’s Preference and was thinking about adding raw but everything seems to be extremely high in fat content. The ones I’ve seen that are lower is Darwin’s and OC, both which I have access to in this area, but I’m not sure if these are even considered way to high for my older boy.

The alternative would be for us to boil Costco chicken and add that to the preference, but I do like the idea of having the ready made patties and being able to alternate between proteins. We often travel to our families place so not having to make a separate meal for the dog would be nice too.

Would I just need to contact the companies and ask what the true fat content is? I saw the mathematical conversion on another part of the site, but it seems like I need to know the moisture content of the food and I’m not sure where to find that.

[Lablubber]

Thank you guys for all of your quick responses and I sure hope I don’t get associated with being lazy but you know what? I go to a doctor who is very much into natural cures and holistic medicine as was my mother. And so I take a complete array of herbal medicine and my health, blood work and every part of my being has improved greatly so I continue in this approach.

But when I came here, my dog was on puppy chow from the breeder who raved about it as well as my own vet. recommended it as well unless I wanted to switch to Royal Canin. Upon coming here in just a short time, I started transitioning to what I thought was a great food from all I had read on my own, which was a bad choice so I referred to what you guys suggested and quickly learned my wisdom was severely lacking and I needed to make another change…..

So that is why I am now asking to not make another mistake. I am taking newsletters from Raw folks, holistic vets, folks in the know such as you but trying to disseminate it all has really become quite confusing….One says, it causes yellow stools and the next says it contains one bad ingredient…Garlic, rosemary extract, some chemical that is bad and so then when I am just about decided on what I want to switch to next before the raw… Boom then here comes another post from someone I respect as very knowledgeable in this field and there I am back to square one again…

and so really I just want to cut to the chase because I am at the point food wise that in order to transition to another brand or type…. I have to move quickly or otherwise I will have to go buy more Blue to accomplish that and I don’t want to do that.

So I just looked at Chewy.com and wished I would have gone there long ago and I will order several different bags just to try and see how he does on them and if one seems to agree with him better than the other, that you guys recommended than I will stick with that or use both and switch them in and out as I converge over to raw.

Thank you all so very much for your help…

The Lablubber

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels~
Sorry for what seems like conflicting/confusing information – it shouldn’t be as I was addressing the percentage of calcium in the Wellness formulas, Duke is addressing the grams of calcium that percentage represents in the food.

If you haven’t opened the bag, PetCo will take it back – actually, they’ll take it back even if you have opened it. If you have a couple days worth of NV left, I can agree with Imnordrum regarding ordering from Chewy. They have excellent customer service and I’ve always received everything within two days as well.

PetCo should carry Innova LBP if you’re considering that, which has one of the lowest calcium/phosphorus ratios – closest to what Dr. Henry Baker recommends (see article #3 on HDM’s list on the first page). Their food is not the best, but certainly better than Purina or Iams, Science Diet…

My primary concern when I first brought Mystery home was calcium, since we already had a Golden that required double-hip surgery, so I put him on the Innova LBP. When he was about seven months old, I switched him to Orijen LBP which has a higher calcium, but only as an interim food while I researched raw, which he is now on. If I had not gone raw, he’d still be on Orijen LBP formula until he was two and then over to Orijen’s adult formulas. Orijen is grain-free, preservative-free and synthetic-free. You won’t find Orijen at PetCo. Only one of my five cats likes raw so they’re all on Orijen Cat and Kitten. (No, I don’t work for Orijen – it’s just the best I can find at a price I can afford.) I’ve had no dietary issues with either the cats or Mystery from any of the foods I’ve fed.

As for the pumpkin, if there are no medical reasons for your pup to have loose stools (I don’t know what they would be except for my experience with Sunset having eaten rabbit poop), a tablespoon of plain pumpkin will help. I never had to give more than two tablespoons, even when Sunset did clean up after the rabbits.

[lmnordrum]

Lablubber: I was very overwhelmed too! Had advice to feed raw but it is impractical for me and frankly it grosses me out. After a lot of reading, including every post on this forum including the external articles, I decided to feed Wellness Core Puppy (grain free.) My dog loves it, she has a great coat and no issues with the BMs. I order it from Chewy.com .

My dog was being fed Royal Canin puppy by the breeder and although I tried to mix the food at the beginning, the dog just picked out the Wellness and left the Royal Canin in the bowl. I said the heck with it and just quit the Royal Canin and fed the Wellness and she never had a problem.

For low-value treats and training I’m feeding Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast. For high value treats I’m just buying meat and cooking it and putting it in the freezer. Its cheaper to buy chuck roast than it is to get dog snacks.

Hope this helps!

[Lablubber]

Rick Rankin

So can somebody make it simple for me and please tell me on the kibble end of it. If you were just starting out with a lab puppy and wanted to feed him the best kibble… What is the best overall choice. Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness or Dr Something or whatever for a 13 week old Lab puppy. I have read to oblivion on what is best. I have read every persons articles about what is recommended and I am even more confused now and becoming quite desperate watching my grow and hopefully do well.

As I said I tried to switch over to a good food and switched to Blue Lg. Breed Puppy and then only to find out that it too was too high in calcium after all the 20 days of transitioning to another food.

I do plan to slowly work over to some raw diet when I feel knowledgeable enough to do so…Mainly on his evening meals and I have tried some of the stuff PattyVaughn recommend for him as well as adding it to his kibble as toppers to his food to see how he reacted to it and so far so good. But for me and my lack of knowledge, I am just afraid that to jump off completely in the Raw scene because you also need to know that I take this dog with me 24/7. He goes everywhere I go and I also take him to work with me as well. Plus he is already training hard every day with all of his retriever work and obedience training. So then with the very limited knowledge that I have on this subject and the conditions that I am involved in, a totally raw diet would almost be impossible for me to do right now….Plus I am afraid I would not have enough knowledge to give him and provided everything that he needs as far as supplementations that go along with it for a lg. breed growing puppy. Especially when I want to be extra careful on the calcium end of it and then again saying that… I also don’t want to under nourish him in anyway whatsoever either.

So could I just plead for someone’s mercy and wisdom in this situation and please recommend the best kibble for a 13 week old lab puppy and then if you don’t mind, share with me where the best place is to order it…. Because as most all of you warned me….My local pet stores carry very little healthy lg. breed puppy food and all the local vets carry is Science Diet and Royal Canin or something like that and when you read their ingredients, none of them meet the requirements…

So then…Could someone please come to my rescue and help someone in a pinch here, because I am down to about the last 8 # of the food that I have and so now would be the time to transition to another one. I have learned tons from all of you guys but for me time is of the essence because I want this pup to have the best I can get for him with the limited amount of knowledge that I do have on board.

Thanks Lablubber

[Sue’s Zoo]

Duke the Boxer posted this in the LBP topic:
‘The way HDM calculated the percentages of the calcium is from usuing this formula
1)Multiply calcium% by 1000g. That gives you the grams of calcium/kg
2)Divide the grams of calcium/kg by the kcal/kg for the food. That gives you the grams of calcium/kcal.
3)Multiply the grams of calcium/kcal by 1000/1000. That gives you grams of calcium/1000kcal.

Ive calculated food that say the max calcium is 1.5% but after the calculations the food was over the 3.5g of calcium per 1000kcal’

This is exactly why I’m still so uncomfortable feeding raw to my large breed pups! The whole point it doing it is to give them the best nutrition but if I screw up the calcium/phosphorus ratio etc I’ve just caused a problem that could be serious. And it seems fairly complicated to get it right. I’ve used a couple of books that are helpful but I can’t ask specific questions. This forum has helped tremendously but I’m still so insecure about it. Looking forward to the Raw Feeding Web Conference next weekend.

In the meantime does anyone know a good place to get nutritional values for various meats that include the bone, as well as green tripe etc? I found a website that I can use to add ingredients and get total values but, of course, the only items already in the database do not contain bone, etc. There’s a small fee if you want to do more than 3 recipes but if it help me get this right, it’s worth it :).

[Naturella]

Shasta,

I see. Yeah, I will start one at a time and add 1-2 tsp.

I will also try adding more lean meat (bully sticks, raw, or cooked) to his food (and reduce the kibble a bit, of course).

Thanks so much for the advise to all, if anyone has any more suggestions, please feel free to share, and I will let you know what works when I find it out! 🙂

[Shasta220]

I’m not exactly sure how much of the extra supplements you should add. Try maybe 1-2tsp? I’d start with using one product at a time, to see which one is/isn’t seeming to work. If the bully sticks seem to help, maybe cutting back on the kibble and adding some meat (raw or cooked) to his delicious-sounding doggie soup?

[Shasta220]

Apple Valley? Just curious, where is that at?

I’m on the Oregon Coast, so raw honey is crazy expensive. But we just got 2 beehives last year (funny thing. We originally had a swarm given to us, but they moved out right away. About a week later, a wild swarm moved in and produced a whooooole lotta honey). When we harvest the honey this summer, I’m definitely reserving some for the dogs.

[Naturella]

Hm… I currently feed an all-grain-free kibble blend of 15lbs of Dr. Tim’s, 4 lbs of Nutrisca chicken, and 4lbs of Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension, all mixed in. He gets about 1 cup of that mix/day, in four feedings or so.

I have heard that pumpkin firms up stools, do you think I should still give it? He has a bowel movement 3 times a day.

I could try to add some fiber, maybe ground flax seed and/or yoghurt to his food? He gets coconut butter at breakfast every other day too. For treats, I am currently using some freeze-dried liver ones, frozen pineapple chunks, baby carrots, kale stems, or his kibble. We have just started adding some raw meaty bones once a week (for now), and I got some great coupons for free canned food, so I will be adding that in too in months to come.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Mom2Cavs]

I posted back in Sept. and wanted to update what I’m doing now that’s working. For about a month now the dogs have been eating Annamaet Option for their kibble. Before that it was Fromm Salmon a la Veg and that was working fine, too. I’ve been adding as a topper canned foods. Mostly Wellness, either 95% Salmon, Lamb or Beef and Beef Stew. I also use Instinct Healthy Weight cans and Mulligan Stew Salmon and Fromm 4Star Beef or Pork. I use enzymes and pre/probiotics each meal. The ones I rotate with are Fresh Digest, Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus, Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics. Lucy gets a Maitake mushroom supplement from Vetri-Science for her cancer. Sometimes, actually rarely, I’ll add in a 3/6/9 supplement from Springtime, Inc. They also get a Fresh Factor chew from Springtime, Inc. in the morning. Recently, I tried substituting the morning meal for premade raw, but after about a week Laverne started having mild pancreatitis symptoms so I’ll probably stop doing that for now….I’m thinking about doing 2 morning premade raw meals a week and try that, instead of every morning. Maybe Tues. and Fri. I’m also thinking of actually trying some Annamaet Lean kibble….I know it’s chicken based, but I just want to see how Laverne does on it. I should be able to tell rather quickly if it’s bothering her. If it does, the others can eat it with no problem. I would also like to try Victor kibble (we may have it locally soon). Dr. Tim’s looks great, but I just don’t know, yet, if I’m up to trying it.

[Naturella]

Wow, it has been a while since I have looked at this topic – never thanked Patty for the useful information, so thank you, Patty!

Well, I finally managed to somewhat comfort my now husband (in my avatar, we got married on Friday), who is usually worried about feeding Bruno (also in my avatar) raw, but today we had a first real venture into it with a piece of pork neck bone and meat. Bruno loved it, and seems quite alright on it. I have 2 more pieces and plan to give them in the next 2 weeks (once a week basically), and see how that goes, and if he continues to be fine, I will see if I can increase it to maybe 2 times a week to 3. I also plan to introduce recreational marrow bones (the small ones, due to fatty marrow) sometime soon and change them once every couple of weeks or so, not so sure about that yet.

But yes, first real all-raw meal was served today and liked a lot. We seem to be in good shape for the occasional raw! 🙂

[Dori]

I too am sorry for your losses. It’s always a difficult thing to go through. I feed my three dogs grain, white potato, white rice free foods.
As someone else mentioned, if you check out the 4 and 5 star foods and read their ingredient lists you can go from there. Many of us on this site find a food that our dogs do well on and then continue the search so that we can have a few different brands and proteins to rotate through. Some rotate from bag to bag others rotate more often. I don’t really feed kibble any more (I feed commercial raw, also The Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated food that you just add water to) and am just starting to delve into doing homemade raw meals. When I did feed kibble, some of the brands I really liked were Brothers Complete (you can only buy it on their website but they have very very quick delivery and great customer service, it’s a family run business), Zignature, Victors (you can also order Victors on Amazon, Natures Logic, Acana just to name a few.

Keep in mind that, and it’s only my way, when I first bring a puppy home (or any dog for that matter) I usually keep them on the same food they were eating for the first two weeks. My feeling is that they are going through enough stress with moving to a new home, new people, etc. that I think it’s just a little easier on them that at least something in their lives is familiar to them. Then I start the slow transition to a food I’m comfortable feeding and also comfortable with the companies website and where they source their ingredients and what plants are used to produce their food. I try to make sure I then research what other dog foods that plant may be producing and, of course, have there being any recalls on any of them.

On the top left hand section of this page is a wonder list of Dog Food Recalls and you can also sign up to be put on their email list for dog food recalls as they happen.

Hope any of this has helped. Good luck with the new puppy. Let us know how you make out. Oh, and ask all the questions you want.

[RescueDaneMom]

Sue’s Zoo,

I’m not 100% sure but I think that HDM doesn’t feel the need to give her dogs a lot of fruits/veggies. I think that’s why there’s a big difference in the amount of veggie mix in HDM’s recipes versus Dr. Becker’s. I don’t think you’re going to throw off the calcium/phosphorous with the differing amount of veggies. I imagine you could feed them more or less veggies depending how their systems handle it and if they like it or not. The main component of calcium/phosphorous in the meat/bone. I believe the supplements in HDM’s recipes are for 3 adult dogs in the 65-75 pound range (I think, going by memory here). If you are unsure about the amounts of supplements you should be giving for your dogs’ weights just ask. I know I wrote it all down once.

Hopefully more people will chime in. I’ve only been doing raw for about 6 months now so I still consider myself new at it. Good luck!

[raylene5]

Thanks so much everyone for the replies! It’s not so easy for me to just “not discuss nutrition” with my vet…maybe it’s something I need to learn 🙂 I just have so little patience and tolerance for someone trying to preach to me how raw is not good (and give really ridiculous arguments as to why it’s not).

We have a more holistic-type of vet near us who also does vaccinations and minor surgeries…full-service care. But they are so much more expensive than a traditional vet. The price for the initial puppy visit (not including vax) with the traditional vet was $60. At the holistic vet, the initial consult is $200!!!

Anyway, I will try the kelp or spirulina (maybe at Whole Foods or a nurtrition store?) and see if that helps with the grass. We don’t use pesticides or fertilizers on our grass so it doesn’t really bother me that he eats it, I just don’t want it to cause him to throw up.

Thanks again for all the help!

[mountainhound]

I’ve been feeding raw for about 5 years (mostly pmr and some premade). I’m always rotating protein sources since my dog doesn’t have any digestive issues and tolerates it well. I also like to add fresh whole foods for variety which depends what I have on hand. I tend to stick with certain staples though that I add daily which includes salmon oil for omega 3’s and seameal blend for trace minerals. I also recently started using olewo carrots and beets which have been a huge hit and seem to benefit his skin/coat and prevent counter surfing. He also gets fresh egg couple times a week for additional vitamins or as a treat.

Curious to see what other raw feeders supplement with. Any product you absolutely swear by and why do you use it?

[Shasta220]

It doesn’t sound like your boys are on good food at all. You have awesome intentions, but the nutritional value just isn’t there.

I really don’t recommend puppy food, especially not ANYTHING under the Purina brand. Look into 4-5 star foods on this site. There are some forums on here with lists of the most affordable ones, as I imagine the food bill to get high.

No no no to hot dogs. They are very very processed, and whatever nutritional values were in them got processed right out. I’d suggest going to your local butcher/grocery store, and buying raw meats/bones like chicken, beef, etc. Those are much better meat sources… And I’d avoid any jerky designed for people too, it has extra salt and often sugar that dogs don’t need. Try making your own jerky by slicing meat and baking it in the oven until it’s chewy. (EDIT: oops, sorry, just saw that you’ll make your own jerky instead of store bought. Good good.)

The other posts have said no over feeding, and I can’t emphasize that enough either. It is especially important that you don’t over feed the puppy, as giant breeds will tend to grow as much as their food intake allows. If they grow more than their body was designed for, it will put horrible stress on their bones/joints, no matter how fit they are as an adult.

Another note on food: it will probably be a bit tough on your wallet when you switch to a premium food, but in reality, the risk is NOT switching. When they’re on quality food, they will need to eat less, much less.
My 90lb APBT mix, Otto, ate 9c of Dog Chow daily, and was still very very lean/fit. When we finally moved him up to a 3-star Nutra Nuggets, he went all the way down to 2c daily with no weight change.
Another miracle story of what food switches will do: we’ve fed our dogs 1-3 star foods for about 10yrs sadly. Our lab had Otitis, and ALWAYS had a disgusting smell to her, as well as hot spots and shedding. She also was acting very lethargic (we figured it was just her age). When we switched her to a quality food, she lost about 5 years of her age in just a few months! She was bouncy, happy, wanted to play fetch, and had ZERO odor to her!

So switching their food will give you amazing benefits, I promise. 😉

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shasta220.

[jakes mom]

I agree with the other comments, cats can be so hard to please, can’t they? I also have a female, Julie, who has always seemed underweight, scrawny, to me but checks out completely healthy every vet visit. She’s 14 years old now. I feed her separately from my other 4 to allow her to eat as much as she wants without interference. Nothing you can do but keep trying flavors and textures.Mine range in age from 12 to 18 years and do well on Chick soup and Merrick brands. I swap back and forth otherwise they seem to get bored.They also like a bit of mashed pumpkin or winter squash and that’s good fiber for the hairball problem. Just a spoonful a couple of times a week. Finally, for the kitties that don’t like canned food, I’d suggest one of the water fountains. My guys love theirs, it’s ceramic and keeps the water nice and cool and they love the movement. I know they drink a lot more than they ever did before. They were a little wary of it at first but it only took a couple of days for them to get used to it.