[pugmomsandy]

I haven’t had any issues with raw since the beginning which was more than two years ago. You can use raw or cooked meat with the premixes. I’ve made over 100 lbs of ground raw in one sitting before but clean up well right after. I make sure to thaw my frozen packages in a container in case it drips blood and then transfer the food into the container when it’s thawed enough to come out of its package. It’s just like thawing out a package of ground beef for yourself.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[pugmomsandy]

I started with chicken wings when I first introduced raw. Then chicken legs and turkey necks. Chicken necks are very small. My dogs are 22 to 27 lbs.

[pfeiner]

Thanks for your feedback. Like moist, I have spent a lifetime (57 yrs :)) being told to stay away from bones and pets. Knowing that cooking bones is a problem as they will splinter, raw bones are OK?? I read that they are but I am still afraid. I see see poultry necks at the market and think, the pups would love them, but I am afraid of causing health issues.

[pfeiner]

Thanks for your feedback. Like your suggestion of changing the pre mixes up for variety. In reading about home prepared raw diets, I see allot about salmonella etc. I know about safe handling of foods but they wind up getting cooked. What about raw?

[Shasta220]

I’m sorry, but I will go through the sob story of Millie. We rescued her as a 5wk kitten. I thought she was old enough to start cat food, but Dad insisted on dropper feeding her for a few days. I have no clue if that had anything to do with it, but she refused cat food when we offered it to her about a week later.

We tried dry, canned, organic, flaked, pouched. She sniffed it and backed up as if it was rotten. We got desperate enough to try “starving” her, offering NOTHING but cat food. She went a week without any food, and still had zero desire for cat food, even after force feeding it to her.

Eventually she got to eating kitchen meat scraps, hot dogs, and cheese (I’m repulsed too, but I simply knew /nothing/ about feline nutrition back then. It’s in the past now and can’t be changed – so please don’t chew me out, I’ve scolded myself enough for letting my parents feed that to her LOL!)…

A couple years ago we took her to the vet for urinary issues. They gave her some meds and she cleared right up, but it’s back now.

Her current diet is *shameful face* raw chicken legs. I wish we could some how get some supplements into her diet, but I’ve tried adding a basic supplemental powder (I added about 1/4 of a day’s worth into some ground meat), and she immediately detected it and refused.

I’m just wondering what the most basic raw diet is out there that I can get away with. I can’t try ANYTHING that’s commercial, as she’s turned her nose up at it ALL, I promise. She likes muscle meat/fat from almost every protein source, and she eats almost the whole leg bone of the chicken, so I’m not at all worried about her calcium. I’ve offered her heart/gizzard/liver, and she refused. Occasionally when I grind her meat, I can sneak about 10% liver/heart into it, but that’s it. I tried adding an egg, but she doesn’t like them (occasionally she’ll eat them cooked).

So, what /will/ she eat? She, obviously, likes her muscle meat/fat/bone, and she likes cheese/milk (no yogurt), peanut butter, and coconut oil.

I’m just wondering if anyone else has a cat as miserably picky as her, and how they manage to get at least SOME of the required nutrients into the diet….because I’m sick and tired of cleaning her messes (I thought her walking into the litterbox and forgetting to turn around was just her personality, but after doing some research, I found that “missing” is a further sign of urinary problems).

Please don’t tell me “just take her to the vet” because we have. They’ve done all they can do – it’s all up to her and what she will/won’t put in her mouth.

Sorry for being so long-winded, and sorry if it was confusing at all…but I’m a bit confused myself. Why can’t she be like the other cats and just eat some balanced canned/dry food? I don’t know -_-

[Monika30]

Has anyone used this food? K9 Natural Freeze Dried Dog Food. I found their website (http://www.k9natural.com/), read about it and it sounds great but would like an opinions?
This is description including ingredients. I have two Siberian Huskies I would like to feed with this (currently on Ziwipeak which is great but really expensive, especially here in Australia)
K9 Natural Freeze Dried Dog Food Lamb 3.6kg

FLAVOUR: Lamb Supreme
PACK SIZE: Net weight 3.6kg Makes 14.2kg of ready-to-serve raw food when reconstituted with warm water.

INGREDIENTS: Lamb meat, lamb blood, lamb blone, lamb green tripe, lamb liver, broccoli, cauliflower, carrot, spinach (chard), cabbage, apples, pears, lamb hearts, lamb kidneys, eggs, green lipped mussel.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
(Freeze Dried values)

Minimum Crude Protein 28.0%
Minimum Crude Fat 35.9%
Maximum Crude Fiber 5.0%
Maximum Moisture 10.0%

[Dori]

I feed commercial raw as well as home cooked raw. I feed both Primal Pronto Beef, and Lamb. They make other proteins but one of my girls has allergies to all things poultry so those are the two I stick to. I also feed Darwins. Darwins is less expensive and also less in fat content. I have three toy dogs. One is a 14 1/2 year old Maltese, 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo and 4 year old Yorkipoo. I have to admit that they are all chow hounds and have never met a meal they don’t inhale and certainly haven’t turned down. They have done equally as well with Primal as they have with Darwin’s. I feed a rotational diet so both Darwins and Primal as well as other commercial raws are in my freezer. Primal Prontos are geared to be able to scoop and serve. It is raw but little bits (somewhat like the size of kibble) and defrosts very quickly on the kitchen counter in their bowls which is really very convenient when I’ve forgotten to take some other raw from the freezer. Doesn’t happen often but it does happen.

[GizmoMom]

For those who feed raw, would you trust packaged frozen quails from a Chinese market? The package does say it’s a product of USA, but doesn’t provide any other details (how they are raised, etc).

[pugmomsandy]

I’m sure Darwin’s is a great product and several people here use it. But with 2 large dogs you might check into feeding prey model for some meals such as feeding a whole chicken (including the feet and gizzards, liver and neck). Not every single meal is required to be complete and balanced. 20% or less can be unbalanced. There is a large raw forum at dogforums dot com and it has a very big “raw feeding pictures thread”. Also check out preymodelraw dot com. I also use a recipe book, “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” which is easy to follow and comes with a recipe to make a vitamin mix. You’d save a lot of money by buying bulk or family packs of ground beef or chicken and even bone-in pork chops. And they go on sale when it’s their sell-by dates. I also find whole raw sardines at the ethnic grocery store for $1.19/lb on sale. This is one meal for my dog and he only needs one sardine which is around 3 oz. the sardines come in various sizes. Another option is buying your own meat and using a premix.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sorry Sharon! I just saw this post. The online database is http://www.alacalc.co.uk/ I signed up for the 3 free recipes to test it. So far I’ve been able to add HDMs Whole Food Supplement and her Veggie/Fruit mix as a recipe then as an ingredient to one of her suggested recipes Beef/Turkey. I also recently found data on raw, bone-in items so I could add turkey necks etc (http://dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html). After that I can download a spreadsheet which gives the calculations of about 50 different nutrients. I’m seriously considering purchasing for 15 recipes. It costs $50 but I will feel so much better about doing my own ‘recipes’ if I can make sure everything is well-balanced. (Will post on this on FB, too)

[Dori]

You are in a truly unique and enviable situation. Under those circumstances I would do exactly what you do. Unfortunately I’ve not been able to find a holistic vet here that I’m comfortable with. The holistic vet here in my area that has the best reputation prescribes cooking the dogs diet so obviously since it goes against what I have learned on this site about a raw diet and have seen the results with my own eyes, she’s not for me or my dogs. Traditional vet, of course, advises year round heart worm preventative. In the Northeast it was recommended for Summer not Winter. I’m afraid that mind set stayed with me. Living in the humid South I should have been preventing year round. You are lucky to have all those resources around you and your wealth of knowledge. Honestly, you’re like a walking talking encyclopedia. Love it!

[pfeiner]

A friend just mentioned Darwin’s Raw diet. I have been successfully feeding Primal for a while now however Darwin’s is significantly less expensive and with two Lab’s. costs add up quickly. Anyone have any feedback re:- Darwin etc.
Thanks loads!

[Melissaandcrew]

Crud.. I pulled three ticks off of ME this past summer and two off of dogs in the fall. One dog then tested anioplasmosis positive…and the other anio neg but weak lyme positive. My part of NY is crawling with them Certain times of year the damn things will fall on you out of trees .This spring we are going to treat for them as its getting out of control for the humans.

[FreeholdHound]

Serves me right for mentioning “the limp”. Harry was doing his zoomies (term for XL Greyhound racing back & forth). He must have crashed on the turn in the dining room & hit the wall. Comes in yelping w/the right front leg drawn up. Ugh. Flashback to my horse days- give a good once over & make him walk. Luckily he walked it off. No yelping, limp or panting. Whew – EVet averted.

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with you, but my old vet didn’t look into things and wanted me to keep my Mix Breed on the Royal Canin SO for life when she had a uti with struvite crystals. Well, it said right on the bag that is was supplemental and not to be used for a long period of time! Let’s just say that anitbiotics killed the uti and the struvites went away. She has been on RC SO since then and that was years ago. Anyway, my vet now, a holistic vet practice, knows quite a bit about canine nutrition. He even does podcasts on onevetmed (or something like that lol). Very knowledgeable. Like I said before, he believes in raw feeding and carries Nature’s Variety, all forms, and Steve’s Real Food in his clinic and that is what he feeds his Goldens.

[Hamlin38]

Hi Dr. Mike,

I haven’t seen a rating on Sojourner Farms, or Sojo’s.

That’s been my dog’s diet for over a year. I like it. Well, and they do to.

I prefer it over the other freeze dried raw foods because the protein/fat content is lower than say Stella & Chewey’s or Primal. Not that I haven’t heard or seen great things with dogs who’s diets consists of the latter, the price/volume ratio is greater than what I can afford.

There is a downside to Sojo’s I have to admit. After rehydration, the Guaranteed Analysis for Protein/Fat is greatly reduced. So much so I have to add my own because I have big! active and young dogs.

And it’s reported to me that the stool is greater -which I’d expect from Dry Dog Food -which I refuse to serve. Bad for the teeth, bad for the digestive tract, bad for the adrenal system -the biological filter intended to remove undigestible material like ash -which any dry dog food is chocked full of.

Quick aside: I don’t know how many people come to me and say, but what about their teeth? The crunchy’s clean their teeth. Dr. Mike, you know in your profession, Captain Crunch doesn’t do well for dental health. Nor does any carb -and that’s what it takes to bind the ingredients to make a kibble.

NO DRY FOOD! EVER!

[weezerweeks]

I,ve been cooking chicken,quinoa,peas,and carrots sometimes for my dog. I add natures logic all food fortifier in it. This probable is not a complete diet for him so I don’t do it very often even though the fortifier seems like a complete diet. He loves cooked chicken so my question is if I order see spot live longer dinner mixes and add it to the chicken what else would I need to add for it to be complete. I want to start cooking for him but I can not do raw.I think I’m going to order the book by dr. Becker. Any easy ideas for complete dinner with chicken or beef would be appreciated.

[myfriend]

I have just in the few day last began to read raw food for dogs on facebook on forums and books, I have a male dog that has severe allergies….. I am attempting to get all if not most of his processed foods buying his food from a butcher… my vitamix has actually ground chicken and bone up… but he did eat a raw chicken leg and the ground up chicken no problem… today was the first day of this but I am hoping he will never eat processed dog food again

Good Luck

[Shawna]

I just posted this to HDM on the regular site but thought you might not see it..

“The doxy makes the worms sterile so resistance shouldn’t be an issue with any worms picked up from the doxy treated dog. One of the benefits of giving doxy is that it makes the dog no longer infective to other dogs.

From heartwormsociety.org “Microfilariae from dogs treated with doxycycline that were ingested by mosquitoes developed into third-stage larvae that appeared to be normal in appearance and motility, but these larvae were not able to develop into adult worms, thus reducing the risk of selecting for resistant sub-populations.” http://www.heartwormsociety.or…

I see advantages to the fast kill as well as slow kill methods. I personally would use the slow kill with SP Canine Cardiac Support and herbs mentioned in Dr. Goldsteins book for heartworm treatment plus. But I understand Losul’s desire to get the worms out as soon as possible too… And Turbo seems to be a good candidate for the fast kill method when doxy and heatguard (or another form) are used first to lessen the risks of immiticide treatment.

I’d give raw eggs to keep glutathione levels up. Cardiac support by giving an organ supplement or giving organic heart. I like Standard Process because it has anti-inflammatory factors that work specific to the organ being used for as well as “food” for the specific organ. Anti-inflamatories like turmeric. I personally would give small amounts of garlic and use probiotics regularly. etc etc etc Chlorella is an excellent detoxer.

Edit — been a HORRIBLY busy at work last few days.. I’ve missed much of what has been discussed :(..”

Another thing to consider is that although nobody wants to get that diagnosis, it is really not as bad as some try to make it. You caught it early. Even before symptoms appeared. He has every chance of doing well no matter which way you go. After re-reading your post I do see where your vet is recommending doxy and heartworm before the immiticide. That makes me feel more comfortable with his recommendation!!! 🙂

Here’s a link that may not provide new info but hopefully will take a little of the scare out of the diagnosis.. This is naturopathic vet Dr. Jeannie Thomason’s site http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

PS — I found several folks that had dogs with a minor infection like Turbo’s. One said her dog was free of heartworm nine months after starting the slow kill method. Some of the results you are hearing from could be from immune compromised dogs as well. Turbo is way ahead of the pack in that regards. That is also why I would be less freaked about the fast kill method for him!!! You’re a good puppy parent and Turbo has every chance of having no complications because of it.

I’ve always read to use ivermectin when doing slow kill. I’d do more research before choosing slow kill and anything but ivermectin. A quick google search says this about moxidectin “Ivermectin is the medication most commonly used to kill the microfilaria (larval stage.) There are other medications that will kill them (such as milbemycin) but ivermectin kills more slowly. When too many microfilaria die at once, it can cause shock and collapse for the dog. Thus, ivermectin is preferred because of the slower kill rate. Other products like selamectin and moxidectin do not kill the microfilaria efficiently enough to clear them reliably. Fortunately, ivermectin is available in several monthly heartworm preventive medications. Examples are Heartgard ®, Tri-Heart® and others.” http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-HeartwormTreatments.htm

Of course, one comment on vetmedicine site is not enough to base something like this on but do research more before deciding. I’ll try to check it out too.

Did you ask him his reasoning for recommending the rabies vacc at this time? Is it that he is not aware of the problems, disagrees that problems could arise, thinks they are overstated or what? Does your state allow exemptions? Why not put it off?

Here’s data from several people that have actually USED the slow kill method and cleared heartworm. And likely these are dogs that are nowhere near as healthy as Turbo however I don’t know that. Just a guess. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365271-Slow-Kill-Heartworm-treatment

It’s also the method that most rescue use around here. And again I would try to get Dave’s Hounds input. BUT, when it really comes down to it you will do what you think is best for Turbo and EVERYONE here that is truly your friend will support your decision because we all know that you are the one that has to live with that decision not us… We all will support you no matter what your choice. And as stated before, I think Turbo is a good candidate for the immiticide option as he is young, healthy and has the right person in his corner!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.

[pugmomsandy]

My dogs like raw beef ribs (or Merrick Ranger Ribs) and cow hooves, tracheas, and Merrick GI Bones.

[hamptonmeadow]

-Pig ears, bully sticks are sourced from China. I would never touch them. The same with cat fish skins. hdm suggestion of traecheas and chicken RAW bones etc are as usual good advice.

Never parboil bones, cooked bones splinter. I would not feed marrow bones because some dogs get their mouths stuck in the center. But the marrow is awesome.

Vets are really no nutritionists and don’t know a lot about much beside what they sell.
But, you can listen to the knowledgeable people here. You can also make treats if you don’t use sugar and use seseme seeds, chia seeds and fruits and green leafy veggies and cruiciferous veggies (pureed).

[aimee]

Hi losul,

First I’m so sorry for what you and your dog are going through. I myself have nightmares that I get that dreaded call in which I’m told my dog has heartworms. I know that giving less of the pill and less frequently than recommended is likely playing heavily on your mind. In actuality we don’t know what role that played as sometimes dogs on full prevention protocols come up positive too.

I’m sure this is scarey. I’ll try an answer your questions to the best of my ability.

Do you need a second opinion? If you want to look further, have a different type of test done vs a different vet who may be using the same brand test. There can be false positives on a heartworm test, but they are rare.

The fact that they saw microfilaria kinda clinches the diagnosis. There are other microfilaria that can be seen in blood, Dipetalonema comes to mind and a parasitologist can likely identify them for you. The sample may need to be sent to a university vet school. But really the chance you have both a false positive and a different type of microfilaria seems unlikely …I think you would be grasping at straws …

Should you consider slow kill? I’ll give you my opinion for what it is worth, I wouldn’t. I can’t put my hand on it at this moment. Will look for it if you want but as I remember in dogs treated with slow kill considerable ongoing lung damage occurred UNLESS the dogs were on complete exercise restriction for the entire duration. Your dog is young, I’m guessing active, and would be difficult to keep continually crated for nearly a year plus(?) of his life. There also is some speculation that slow kill may be contributing to resistance. Unless your dog is clear of microfilaria during a slow kill treatment ( meaning your dog has microfilaria because of your dosing and not strain) your dog will be infecting others with a resistant strain and spreading resistance.

Should you use moxidectin? So far as I know of only one study that compared efficacy head to head and moxidectin was more effective when given as a single dose. Time will tell if that holds: one study one strain. The moxidectin treated dogs didn’t develop heartworm with only one dose post exposure whereas dogs given 1 dose ivermectin or milbemycin did develop worms. Dogs given 3 monthly doses of milbemycin post exposure were also clear. As I recall this test was done with a strain thought to have resistance.

Moxidectin is also the drug in Pro Heart injections. Is a continuous yet decreasing amount of moxidectin as effective as monthly peak doses? I don’t have any answers for you, I think though it has failed whereas the monthly topical has not due to higher blood concentrations with monthly pulse doses.

I’ve noted on Trifexis (milbemycin) commercials it states to give for 3 months post exposure whereas Sentinal Spectum (milbemycin) has upped that to 6 monthly doses post exposure. For now my dogs get milbemycin, same day each month year round. If I lived in heartworm land… southern states where resistance is being seen I’d choose moxidectin. Likely if my vet was saying moxidectin topical I’d go with it trusting that he/she understands the local strains. I don’t mess around with heartworm prevention.

The preventatives I can think of are ivermectin ( heartgard and others), selamectin( Revolution) milbemycin( sentinal, trifexis,) moxidectin( advantage multi, proheart) diethylcarbamazine (daily still available???)

Should you vaccinate? This is beyond my ability to answer. I think your vet is the best person to answer this one.

Trembling/ fearful…. two things come to mind: pain and fear unrelated to pain. Fears can be to unusual scents, sounds (electrical equipment, ultrasonic, rodents etc ) Pain… any lip licking swallowing drooling that might help you pinpoint it?
.
Again I’m so sorry you are going through this…your vet is the best one to help you through this. The American Heartworm Society guidelines are written as they are for a reason…. If it was me I’d make use of them: 3 injections and doxy. Best of luck

[losul]

I just discovered Tuesday evening that our dog Turbo has heartworm infection. It came as a huge shock, as i thought I was being meticulous with his care and his diet. Almost as bad, I am probably to blame for it, and I am sickened and upset by this. I was using
Heartguard+ chewables. I was trying to minimize his toxin exposure, so I didn’t give year round, just for the approximately 7 months mosquito season, and every 35 days instead of 30. Also, because Turbo is 34 pounds and I had the box for 26-50lbs, I was only giving him 2/3 of the chew. Lastly I was keeping the HG in the refrigerator, and now I found out that HG isn’t supposed to be refrigerated and they can’t guarantee the efficacy when refrigerated. I just called them and reported the case to them, telling them all the truth about the situation.

I don’t want to write our life story, sorry about the lengthy post, I’m just trying to get all the info out, so I can hopefully get some good advice to help me make the best decisions. Turbo is approximately 32 months old, 34 pounds, a boston terrier mix, we think maybe mixed with staffordshire or pit, but almost certainly mixed with some kind of bully type. We adopted him from our County’s Animal control about 1.5 years ago. He spent somewhere around 1/2 of the first 14 months of his life in 2 different sessions at the County shelter, and evidently 1 session at a City shelter. It was the first dog we have had in about 7 years, after having had many previously, for most of my life. We were out of the loop on most things dog, so I got very studied up on it, wanting to do things as right as possible, before we even started looking for another dog. I knew the type ( boston terrier or mix) I wanted and knew that I would put him on a raw diet before we even got him, and so be it, within 3 or 4 weeks we had him on about a 60% raw, 40% commercial diet, with no problems ever, except some gas for awhile.

Turbo is very handsome, charming, and playful, but can be rude, stubborn, very assertive, sometimes defiant. We love him the way he is, he’s always been a joy, and no real problems at all, except some assertion/agression (not fearful aggression) towards certain dogs, usually only the largest dogs or bully types. He’s completely different (quirks) than any other dog we’ve ever had, but for us, he’s really a perfect fit, and is always well behaved in the house.

We’ve been in search of a great dog Vet since we got Turbo. Tuesday’s visit was the 4th different vet. I had set up an appointment ahead of time for his upcoming rabies shot, and to test the waters with a new (and hopefully permanent) vet. In the meantime Turbo had a really strange and scary issue that happened Saturday evening and lasting into Sunday. An hour or so after he had his Saturday evening meal, and totally not typical, he began “hiding” in a corner of the house, or he would go to either the basement door or the back door. We take him through the basement into the garage when we go in the car. He goes out the back door into our yard. He also started very visibly trembling, looking very sheepish, and scared. He would not take a treat at all, so totally untypical of him. Once outside, he did not want to come back in at all, wanting to lay on a chair on the deck instead, even though it was quite cold and he doesn’t like cold for long. We’d make him come back in only to do the same again. Sitting in the corner at the end of the hall or at the basement door or the back door. He acted like he just wanted to be out of the house and maybe even away from us, seemed afraid of me for no reason, and the trembling hard, very scary. So not typical, Turbo has NEVER been fearful of anything that I know of, but he just did NOT want to be in the house at all. I eventually took him for a short car ride, and he seemed to have perked up some. So we got back into the house just a little bit reluctantly. He then took a treat fairly eagerly, but after taking a second one, he suddenly just dropped it and ran away to the corner again. The trembling and strange behavior again too. We nearly took him to the emergency clinic. It later subsided though, and eventually he went to bed right beside me, where I watched him the rest of the night. He seemed to sleep well. Next day, just a little more of the same scary stuff, and then he ate his typical raw morning meal. Soon after eating he started acting better throughout the day (Sunday). He never vomited nor had diarrhea nor showed any obvious pain through the whole ordeal.

Baffled, I spent most of Sunday researching the trembling symptoms. Nothing seemed really to fit at all, but I was concerned about problems like kidney/liver. I contemplated all sorts of things such as Lyme or tickborne illness ( he had a tick on his ear that I didn’t catch right away, it was November and we had already had several hard freezes. The tick left a pea sized nodule that lasted about two months. Friday evening he chewed on a cow hoove awhile until I took it away from him, because he had broken off a rather large sharp shard. Saturday morning he had his typical raw meal, but his evening meal was not quite as typical. Usually he gets 2/3 cup kibble matched with 1/3 of a can food, or 3/4 cup kibble and an egg, or sardines. This time I gave him less than 1/2 cup kibble + about 4 ounces of canned salmon + 1 egg cooked in coco oil, and i added about 1/2 t of nutritional yeast. i think I’ve added a very small amount of yeast to his raw mix before, but not completely sure. So thoughts of a bad reaction to the yeast also came into play, along with thoughts of too much fat at once. Even the thought of a ghost in the house came up.

Monday morning I called the vets office an\d told them I thought we needed to put the rabies shot on hold, and instead get him checked and do some blood work to get to the bottom of this. Tues evening: I explained everything to the techs and the vet as best I could, even that I home prepped over 1/2 of his diet. He asked me what I was feeding him and I told him him briefly, just didn’t come out and say”raw”, but I think he knew it. He didn’t ask if raw and seemed satisfied with what I was feeding and supplementing. This
vet spent alot of time with us, well over an hour, didn’t admonish for anything, wasn’t arrogant in the least, didn’t “push” anything , and so far I think I like him O.K. He examined Turbo and was pleased with his apparent health. So he didn’t push any lab work at all. I still elected to go with an outside lab wellness blood work, along with an in house tick borne illness and heartworm check.

I was floored when they came back and said he was both pos on the antigen and microfiliae HW tests. He was negative on the tickborne. He explained the clinic’s HW protocol; 1) monthly HW preventative for 2 months prior to treatment, and continuing throughout treatment and beyond. 2)Doxycycline. for 2 weeks prior to treatment.3) first immiticide treatment (injection); dexamethasone injection, tramadol injection. Hospital overnight, strict confinement until returning for next treatment.4) doxycycline again for 2 weeks prior to immiticide treatment. 5) 2nd immiticide treatment. ( 2 injections 24 hours apart), dexamethasone and tramadol injections given daily with each treatment. Hospitalized for 3 days and 2 nights. strict confinement at home 30 days 6) Heartworm check 6 months afdter last immiticide injection to confirm elimination of heartworms.

He also explained the clinic’s preferred HW preventative – Advantage multi – a topical application, (imidacloprid for fleas which Turbo does not have + moxidectin, the HW preventative, which is supposedly absorbed through the skin). I didn’t even realize they had a topical for HW. I told him I would rather not use an insecticide for fleas that he didn’t need. He said alternatives (such as heartguard) could be used but may not be as effective, in his opinion. I then mentioned that I recalled hearing about a “slow kill” method. He seemed a little stunned, and said that that method was actually more dangerous, wasn’t as reliable and it could take much longer if it even worked. I again expressed my concern about all the toxins, especially the arsenic/immiticide.

He didn’t think the trembling episode was HW related at all, although he didn’t offer any real explanation for it. Also he thought it would be fine for him to go ahead and get the rabies vaccination, or I could wait for the outside lab’s bloodwork results in a day or 2. I told him we would definitely wait.
—–

Here’s where I need advice;

Do you think I should get another HW test from another vet along with a second opinion?

Should I consider a slow kill method vs the clinic’s protocol?

Should I use heartguard or another ivermection based HWP vs the advantage multi, moxidectin based? Is their any other moxidectin based without other insecticides included? Is there another one more effective than the others? Are there any other HWP’s using some different drug altogether?

Should I continue to put on hold the rabies vaccination? if I put off more than a few more days, then he will be past due again, will probably only be able to get the 1 yr vs the 3 yr, and would have to be re-vaccinated again in a year.

Does anyone have anyone input about what could cause the trembling episode?

Any other opinions/advice?

———–

Update: The vet called with the bloodwork results. Everything looked “perfectly normal” he especially stressed the liver and kidney values, the blood cell and platelet counts and values, thyroid, and some other things I don’t recall now, I don’t have a copy yet. What a big relief on that much. I had some more questions to ask, such as should he have X-rays, ultrasound, etc. He could, but didn’t think neccesary nor did he advise it. I asked about the microfilariae count, he said a fair amount? Somewhere I had read about the 3 classes of HW infections. I asked what “class” his condition would be, he replied definitely class 1, which I saw described somewhere (going by memory)as asymptomatic to mild, no radiologic signs, nor signs of anemia. He still encouraged going ahead with the rabies vacination, and strongly urged getting started on the advantage multi soon. But he seemed much more amenable now to a slow kill method, maybe along with doxycycline, before I even asked again, even seemed to kind of go along with it, though he still didn’t recomend it, he still recomended their protocol. He also expressed concern that these worms may be resistant to ivermectin, and it could take a very long time to kill them using it. So he again really encouraged using their Advantage multi. I guess this multi is a new thing.

——-

Any advice/opinions would be very much appreciated, as I’m feeling lost and very worried over this. I think my questions still remain the same after getting the blood work results.

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[tecknik]

Point blank- Dinovite does not work. My dog eats a raw diet, very expensive and avoids wheat and grains. About a year ago, she started scratching all the time. Benadryl is what my vet recommended but that is a band-aid to the situation. So, we decided to try this product. I went through almost the entire box and no help whatsoever with the scratching. They offer a money back guarantee. I paid $10 to ship it back. They refunded me the $ but deducted their original shipping costs to me so overall this useless product cost me $16.

[Akari_32]

After trying all kinds of products to help Bentleys skin with these seasonal allergies, we were at the grocery store and saw this stuff on the clearance rack. The poor guy is always bright red and itchy and getting new welts every day, so we are really grasping at straws trying to do what we can with these allergies that can’t helped with food. I bathed him last night with it, and today he looks great. His skin looks much better, and he’s not itching so much (hardly at all, actually). Not to mention his fur is really soft :p Is it ok to use this on a regular basis? Here’s the back of the box:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/F6F17D8E-1326-44FF-8A3A-B2EA6B5DD9A1_zpsy2ahxzof.jpg

I figure it’s just like the Beyers dog stuff we’ve been using on him. It’s not a soap really, it’s lipids and moisturizers. But the Beyers doesn’t do much for him, while this has helped loads after just one bath. What do you guys think?

[pmsuperstar84]

Half my cats are on Rx diets and looking to change to raw once my IBD kitty is weaned off his meds (Can’t everyone eat the same thing? Oh right, no. That would be too easy! 🙂 ). I will also vouch for World’s Best litter. My vet had us changed after clay litter caused urinary tract issues in one of my cats.

[SpanielMom]

In my experience, you can feed the harder bones (femurs, narrow bones, etc) once or twice a week. But you can add softer bones like chicken backs more often. I will warn you though, please supervise your dog with the harder bones, one of my larger dogs who is too enthusiastic about bones broke a canine tooth on one. She is only allowed softer bones now. But the rest of my dogs do great with raw bones.

Two of my four dogs got sick when I introduced them to raw bones for the first time (I had never fed them raw before that) and the others adjusted just fine. I would pick up a few chicken/turkey necks and try giving your dog one of those first, or chop it up and give the dog a few pieces, they are small and that way the dog can get used to the raw a little bit at a time. Or give a raw bone for just a few minutes at a time. Hopefully this helps.

[Iride4tnt]

for the purpose of teeth cleaning, how often should you feed raw bones to a large dog? would you need to start with a small piece and work up to avoid digestive issues?

[Naturella]

Fatcakes,

Hope we helped! I second everything Shasta said, from the pumpkin addition, to testing for food allergies, to the raw egg – Bruno will be getting one/week starting next Thursday! Also, I swear by coconut oil (make sure it is UNREFINED too though – extra virgin, cold-pressed, UNREFINED – it is the REAL deal) – miracle worker. 🙂 But the food you got sounds great, hope your boy likes it! And yay for fish, just hope he’s not allergic to it or something. Orijen is a great brand from what I read though! 🙂

I rotate Bruno’s food once his mix ends, which is about every 4 months or so. And I go through a few flavors/proteins of the same brand before I switch brands. Now he has enough food to last throughout March for sure, maybe even April. Next batch is Earthborn Holistic GF Coastal Catch (fish) mixed with Vets Choice HHE Original (chicken mostly, but other meals in there. Some grains too. Meh, I got it for free and it is 4-stars, so I’m good with it.), then Earthborn Holistic GF Great Plains Feast (bison and some lamb) mixed with Vets Choice HHE Lamb and Rice (I know. Rice. Not grain free. Oh well. There’s lamb in it too.), and then Earthborn Holistic GF Primitive Natural (chicken) mixed with Vets Choice HHE GF (chicken). THEN I have Victor Ultra Professional GF mixed with Back to Basics lined up, and then the Victor Yukon Salmon GF mixed with probably Back to Basics again. THEN I want to try Wellness Core. I think I have Bruno’s meal plan set for like 2 years to come, lol.

As for THK Beams – if you have any local boutiques that sell all-natural dehydrated chews (which is what the fish skins are), see if they have them in bulk – my closest pet boutique store sells them in a jar by the skin, and the big ones are just $1, and I can cut them in like 8 Bruno-sized skins! Bruno is a Jack Russel – (miniature?) Rat Terrier mix, @ around 1 year. I will claim April 1st as his Birthday. We are not 100% sure, he was found in some bushes… But was changing puppy teeth throughout August-September of last year… Any guesses on approximate Birthday? Anyone?

[Shasta220]

And with the fish – I know many people give their dogs oily fish 1-3x per week. I think it’s usually sardines.

About anything good and oily is good though. Sardine, salmon, krill, algae, coconut, and my dogs get flax oil as well (although they don’t absorb it as well as with fish oils). Just be a little careful not to go too overboard, as it could produce a greasy coat after a while. I know someone who gives her 50lb dogs 4 capsules of fish oil daily AND 2-4tbsp olive oil. They’re in tip-top shape and don’t stink, but leave a bit of a film after you pet them a while.

I, personally, also swear by raw eggs. My lab, who’s suffered a dull drab coat and awful skin conditions all her life, gets a whole raw egg daily. She is looking much much better.

[Shasta220]

I’d agree with crazy4cats, I think you should try to find a super quality nutrient-dense kibble, then add their favorite meat (cooked or raw, however they like it). Try canned foods, or make your own broth by boiling chicken bones (or just adding some water to any of the juices after cooking the meat). It will add moisture and flavor to the food, two pluses for picky pups.

That’s good that you took away treats. It might help them realize “Oh… This weird stuff in my bowl is actually food? I think I should eat it!” My boy used to be a picky picky eater, he’d go without food for up to 3 days, simply because he didn’t like the brand/flavor. I would quit giving him his daily biscuits, and he’d go back to eating. He wasn’t overweight at all either – as it sounds like your dogs are on the thin side as well.

[Jjennilee]

Nice to know I am not alone my boys are grown one 35 and the other 23 this year but my fur babies are my current reason to be home LOL… but i will take it …Its never a dull moment anyone that says being a stay at home wife and mom isnt work has never experienced it for sure…

Tried the Honest Kitchen today… No go smells like horse feed and they wont go near it LOL… so on to the next one… only reason we tried that one is the shop we went into didnt have the doc harveys yet and we got samples…

We have taken away all treats now and rawhide as i understand rawhide can be a problem ?
and i guess tomorrow we will try basic beef again… I am so lost as to what to do for these two…

[Naturella]

robertdee,

Thanks for the link! I will definitely look into this product!

So, I looked up the guaranteed analyses of the current mix of food I feed Bruno (Dr. Tim’s, Nutrisca Chicken, and Vets Choice HHE GF), and their fiber contents are 4.5%, 7%, and 5% max respectively. So the mix is actually kind of good on fiber.

I have been adding all kinds of stuff to his kibble though, such as plain yoghurt, pumpkin, ground flax seeds, the usual coconut oil and once-a-week RMB, his first marrow bone (raw, and the bone is still around for gnawing and chewing on), cottage cheese, raw egg, and canned sardines, as well as the occasional dehydrated natural chews (ears, bully sticks, fish skins, chicken necks, lamb tendons, etc.). I am going to develop a schedule for adding all these in his weekly meals so that the additional calories, fat, fiber, and protein are somewhat evenly distributed in his diet. I am also cutting down his kibble to 3/4 cup from 1 cup because of the additives, but I will make sure the calorie intake stays about the same.

So far his poops have overall improved, and I have a feeling it is the additional moisture, and the yoghurt. I always keep plain yoghurt at home (love the stuff), so Bruno will have access to it too, just have to figure out how often. But yes, I feel like we are on track with fixing his stool and/or any digestion problems he may have had. 🙂

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with what everyone above has said. My dogs get virtually no exercise here, as well, so I understand where you’re coming from. I did find that my 1 Cav that needed to lose a little actually lost a whole pound when I just cut out some of the treats she was getting. And there weren’t all that many! It sounds like Nutrisource (which I think is a fine food) might be one to consider again. Primal is one of my favorite premade raws, and I’ve used Stella & Chewy’s, but only the freeze dried version. Good luck to you! I love Spaniels! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[SpanielMom]

My favorite raws are Stella & chewy’s & primal, they both have good veggies in it. The nice thing about primal is that they have the 1 oz nuggets and their “pronto” forms that make using it as a topper really easy. I know I’ve heard people on here saying they like Darwin’s raw but I’ve never personally tried it because it’s not readily available in my area. And yeah, try giving stuff like carrots or freeze dried liver/lung as treats, they are nutritious and low calorie!

[Lori]

Thanks spaniel mom. I’ve never owned a cocker before I adopted Teddy 1-1/2 years ago. I probably just need to cut out some extras and the food a bit. What kind of raw do you use as a topper. I have fed my lab in the past both Nutrisource and Pure Vita and he did well and not too hard on the pocketbook!

[SpanielMom]

I have two English cockers and they did well losing weight on grain free food + raw as a topper. Took me a few weeks to introduce them to raw because cockers tend to have a little more sensitive tummies in my experience, but it has been the best thing on earth to keep weight steady. My cockers have done well on the nutrisource brand as well – grain free nutrisource and also the PureVita – 28% and 24% protein, respectively. I like the grain free nutrisource because it is pretty easy on the pocket as long as your dog has no sensitivity to chicken.

Also – my cockers are not very active either right now because I also have a dog recovering from heartworm who has to be on cage rest and I don’t think it’s fair to take the others out to play and leave her there. 🙁 poor thing. My cockers have done fine on low activity (past 5 months so far) since I started adding a little raw. And I definitely agree with Melissaandcrew, just cut back on the kibble a bit if someone is looking chunky. 🙂

[Melissaandcrew]

I feed a lot of grain free foods toy crew (99 percent of the time) as well as raw etc. The average protein content of the dry I feed is around 31 to 33 percent. While I have a huge fenced yard there are no winter track stars here either, lol. I just cut back on amounts if someone is looking hefty.

[NicoleJ]

She is peeing normally, normal amounts, normal color/smell, regular frequency.

She did start licking her paws this past year, could be anxiety related, she has been going a bit senile the past year so things that didn’t use to bother her seem to. But the hair that is in her stool is a mix of her hair and human hair and it’s quite a bit of human hair, so more than just the odd piece stuck to her foot. She did have some kidney work done not too long ago and everything was normal, she was suffering from spay incontinence. I am wondering if there is some sort of hormonal imbalance causing many of these issues as a year and a bit ago she had a mystery illness that ended up being mange which obviously shouldn’t be happening unless there was something messing with her immune system. She has about 20 skin tags as well… had a UTI along with the spay incontinence… so something is out of whack. And I know that hormonal issues can cause digestive problems… so makes me wonder if there is a tumor or something messing with the endocrine system.

As for what she eats… it’s a mixed bag LOL.. I get my raw food from a local raw diet company, they do frozen premixes so I tend to grab a variety. At the beginning of the year when the stool issues were first starting I believe she was getting turkey, with organs, some veg and cranberry, I also throw in sardines here and there, and was giving her canned pumpkin when things were causing issues but it made no difference. Since then she’s had a few other things… chicken, lamb, beef, goat, venison, duck. Doesn’t seem to matter what she eats, her stools don’t change, the only time they do is if she is getting too much bone matter ( I give her a marrow bone to chew on every day, and have to make sure there isn’t much “powdery marrow” or her stools will be little chalk balls.)

[Sharon Buchanan]

Thanks, Sue. Do you have a link to the online database that you’re using? I’ll look for Steve Brown’s book, just received Dr. Becker’s.

Have you been over to the Facebook page for conference attendees? I was surprised, but encouraged by the some of the folks who’ve signed up for the conference that have been feeding raw for 20 years or more. We definitely made the right decision!

Everyone’s already talking about their dogs, networking for sources – I even got a tip that has led me to a number of local farms that sell to “regular” folks, and sharing their experience.

Completely agree with your last paragraph. I just don’t know what to do with everything I know yet. I have a few “a ha” moments, work on that and then something else comes up and I’m off researching that more. I’ve got a list of questions going for the conference.

[Dori]

Have you asked your vet to check her kidneys? Is she having any skin issues or anxiety of any kind that she would be licking herself and ingesting her hair that way? Just trying to think of things off the top of my head. My girls are on a raw diet and true they don’t drink as much water as they used to when they were on dry but they certainly do drink enough that I’m having to give more water. Is she urinating as she should and are you able to tell if her urine has gotten any darker?

[SpanielMom]

I have a super hardy aussie/lab named Abby who lived on the street until she was about a year old, and she has always been able to eat anything, strongest stomach of any dog I’ve ever had. I rotated proteins regularly and she has never had any issues before. Fast forward, I got a bag of evanger’s gf chicken and sweet potato free from a rep and after I got through about 2/3 of the bag, Abby and my two cockers started getting scabs and bumps and were always chewing at themselves and scratching constantly. I immediately switched them off the food and went to Acana duck and pear, which they had done well on before. My two cockers got better almost immediately, but Abby seems to have gotten worse. I then tried Acana lamb and apple, and switched her raw food (she gets half kibble and half raw) to primal lamb. She has been getting that for about 5 days and I still don’t notice a change. I just don’t know what to do. This is so out of the blue and unlike her. Could it be something besides the food? Please help.

Only other info I can imagine would possibly have to do with this is:
-she recently moved with me from Missouri to Arizona (about a year ago), and it is springtime but I can’t imagine it’s seasonal allergies.
-she also gets pure salmon oil & plaqueoff daily.

[NicoleJ]

Hi all,

I’m new here, was just looking for a dog forum that encompasses health and diet and had a number of raw feeders so hopefully I’ve come to the right place.

My dog’s name is Dacey, she is a coming 13 year old miniature smooth Dachshund.

Earlier this year she was very “off”.. depressed, lethargic and seemed to be in some sort of discomfort. Her poops were very abnormal ( mostly very thin, or absolutely FULL of hair). But after she passed a few hair balls she was back to her normal self after a few days. Then, about a month later, she had a mysterious front leg lameness(she wouldn’t put any weight on her right front) that also went along with her not pooping for almost 2 days. When I took her to the vet and we determined there was nothing obviously wrong with her leg, but her anal sacs were full.. he dealt with those and voila, she can walk again! LOL. But her poops still aren’t entirely “normal”. She is still having intermittent narrow poops, or very dry “pellet” poops, or very mucusy wet poops, and she still has a lot of hair in them! (im guessing she must be picking it up off the floor, but it’s still weird cause some poops are really full of it and I have never seen her walking around eating things off the floor, so she must be doing it when I’m not home? ) She is raw fed… I’ve been trying to make sure she isn’t getting too much bone material in her food because that definitely causes very dry hard poops. Years ago when she was kibble fed I had to make sure she was getting a high fibre diet because her anal glands would randomly leak if she didn’t get at least 5-7% fibre. But she also pooped 3-4 times a day with that diet. Now she only poops once a day most of the time, and they are much smaller and harder, but she doesn’t have the anal glad leakage either, actually the opposite problem, her anal gland secretions are very thick and may be blocking her ability to poop properly.

I’ve also notice she isn’t drinking nearly as much as she used to. At first I chalked it up to the amount of extra moisture she gets from the raw food, and less fibre, but because she is having these pooping issues, I’m not sure she is getting enough water. She used to drink tons, I’d always have to keep a water dish full in my car for her and now she rarely drinks at all even if we are gone all day on road trips (she is my sidekick, always comes with me for work). When I give her the pinch test her skin isn’t snapping back into place, it hasn’t been for quite a while, but isn’t too bad. She still is full of energy, eats well etc. It’s just the weird pooping issues which makes me think she isn’t drinking enough due to the consistencies. Today I started adding water to her food and will see if that helps. I’m not used to having an older animal who isn’t drinking enough, usually it’s the opposite- Kidney issues and drinking a ton!

anyone else deal with these issues and an older dog?

thanks
Nicole and Dacey

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[Evonne]

Sue66b…Yes, the vet took a blood sample and sent it off to a special lab for testing. It tells you what they are allergic to, and even things that are borderline allergies. Now, we just have to figure out what to feed him!
Shasta220, I’m not sure that I want to go raw, but I am seriously considering cooking for my dog. I have a frien who has traveled down this road. We spent a long time talking about home cooking. I feel more confident that I can do this now. ;0)

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sharon Buchanan]

In the numerous raw topics and posts here on DFA and in particular, this topic on recipes, great attention is paid to supplementing raw meats/poultry with veggies, vitamins and others. In reading articles elsewhere on feeding whole prey, we’re told that dogs don’t eat veggies (of course, I’ve never seen a dog take down a cow either), so making sure they get the whole chicken over time or the whole rabbit over time, among others, should provide them with a balanced diet. These two diet/recipe concepts seem contradictory.

Now, I do supplement with coconut oil, curcumen, a c-complex and garlic for reasons I’ve stated elsewhere, in addition to the obvious ones. I’ve taken the advice of Patty and finally found a grocery that carries kafir (which may be hard to continue because the smell gives me indigestion and Mystery reeks of it all day), and I give Mystery a whole egg occasionally – cracked over a coarse grind with the shell.

If I may, I’d like to list the raw meats I have on hand and get some suggestions on the best way to combine them, add to them, improve something or another. I’m hoping to get half a cow in a few weeks from a local farm, but until then I’ve been ordering from MPC. So here’s what I have right now:

Ground Beef Tripe Supermix
Ground Whole Young Beef
Coarse Ground Whole Rabbit
Coarse Ground Whole Chicken
Whole Turkey Necks – they’re huge
Duck Necks
Chicken Feet
RMBs – emphasis on RM
Marrow bones from my local grocery

Mystery’s adult healthy weight averages 85 lbs. (UK Kennel standards (not AKC) for English Creme Golden Retrievers). I had to take my kitten to the vet yesterday and took Mystery with me to get his weight 56.4 lbs – exactly what he weighed at the beginning of January. He’s grown longer as his breed would but his ribs, while not visible, are easily felt. He’s 11 months old. Talked it over with the vet and she wondered if he was a runt – we wondered together. I’ve been feeding him just under 3 lbs. a day over two meals.

So, I guess what I need to know is how to balance the foods listed, whats missing from my raw “pantry”, as well as any ideas on how to bulk him – not a lot, but more than he is. I expect him to reach full growth at about 18 months.

Thanks in advance! Seems the more I know, the less I know.

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
Just a bit of additional info on some of the ingredients I mentioned that I look out for.

1. Rosemary Extract – Our oldest Golden started having seizures when she was about 3 years old. As Sunset got older her seizures increased so our vet put her on Phenobarbital, a dosage I eventually decreased as she seemed dazed most of the time. When I started researching food for our newest Golden, I discovered an article on the relationship between rosemary extract and increased seizures in humans that have them. If rosemary extract can exacerbate seizures in humans, it goes that it would do the same in a dog with seizures. I immediately got ahold of my husband in Korea and told him to stop feeding Blue Wilderness. Unfortunately, he’s at the mercy of the commissary and they just don’t have any quality foods. As it turned out, she died from cancer at the end of January, she was almost 11. Some dog foods list rosemary, others list rosemary extract. I avoided all extract recipes when I was trying to find a better food for Sunset. There was no indication that rosemary extract causes seizures so it isn’t a concern with Mystery nor the Golden my husband recently adopted. If either started seizing, then rosemary would be a concern again.

2. Canola Oil – We love our Goldens. In the United States, about 69% of all Golden Retrievers over the age of two will die from cancer. Our Sunset joined that 69%. Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever. Both of his parents are from Russia. European Goldens have a cancer mortality rate of about 36%. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation Lifetime Golden Retriever Study on cancer. They have told me there are a few other English Cremes in the study and they’re hoping to find out why there is such a disparity between the two types (having lived in three different European countries, I suspect environment and food are most likely). I feel it is my responsibility to ensure my pup dies from old age, not cancer so it is important to me to avoid even a breath of a link between an ingredient and cancer. Canola is one of those ingredients. This article: http://cancercompassalternateroute.com/diet/avoid-canola-oil/ will tell you more about the relationship between GMOs, rapeseed, canola oil and cancer. It’s not the only one, but it’s clear.

3. Garlic – One I didn’t mention, but there are enough conflicting views on it that I took time to look it up last year. Just like onions and chocolate, I don’t give my babies fresh garlic. I do however, add it to his diet as a garlic supplement because I believe that in the correct form and amount, it has benefits.

As to your most recent post regarding sources for raw food – I moved my answer over to the LBP topic at the raw forum since it’s more appropriate there. You can find it here: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33978 It’s only one of seven pages of topics on feeding raw that you’ll find helpful.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.