[InkedMarie]

Barbara: that’s easy! Feed a raw diet, a canned diet or, if you must feed dry, add canned and warm water to the dry.

[InkedMarie]

I don’t believe they’re rated here because it’s not a pre made raw like Darwin’s, Bravo etc.
They have great shipping prices! I’m happy with whist I’ve gotten.

[Casandra E]

Glad to hear u use reel raw. I’m looking into them. Are you happy with them? They are to rated here..

[InkedMarie]

I buy ground raw from Hare Today and Reel Raw.

[“Blue”]

I have bought both Darwin’s and Natures Variety Instinct Raw frozen foods and am having difficulty reconciling their recommended feeding amounts. (Disclosure, sometime in the past 2 months I replied to a similar dry kibble post and suggested the OP use the feeding guides on the package as a starting point but to watch the dog’s body shape using the healthy dog image silhouettes available for that purpose. In other words, if your dog looks fat, feed less, if he looks thin, feed more.)

According to the Dog Food Calculator my 55 lb. dog needs 1230 Calories. For now, forget about differences in one dog’s metabolism, daily exercise, etc. “1230 Cal.” This request to help me understand is about the math, not the individual dog.

NV says my dog needs 1250 Cal. per day (close enough) and that I should feed him 19.5 oz. per day. Their nutrition info says their chicken patties have 49 Cal. per oz. which means 955 Cal. to be fed. Why tell me he needs 1250 and then tell me to only feed 955? That’s a Cal. shortage of about 25%.

Darwins says to feed my dog 9 lbs. per week. Their nutrition info says the chicken recipe is 36 Cal. per oz. That gives 5184 Cal. per week, /7 is 740 Cal. per day. That’s a Cal. shortage of about 60%.

Guess what I’ve been seeing in my dog for the past few weeks. Yep, he’s lost weight.

Can anybody explain why these (or any) companies are so conservative in their recommendations? Am I doing the math wrong? (even if I am, he’s lost considerable weight.) Is there some bit of knowledge I’m missing about feeding raw as relates to weight gain/loss?

Please don’t tell me to follow my own previous advice. Evidently I’ll surely go broke trying to feed him commercial raw.

Thanks,
Steve

[Casandra E]

Curious to know which company you buy from and why?

[Tiyapup]

I add some pre-mix + raw on top of my dogs’ kibble. I love the idea of giving them some less processed food, but I don’t yet trust the pre-mixes enough to feed them exclusively. I’ve rotated through Sojo’s, The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s Artisan, and Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance.

My main complaint is that the meat to mix ratios seem suspiciously unscientific. Sojo’s says 1 cup dry mix to 1/2 cup meat (seems like not nearly enough meat; I do 1:1). THK says 1 cup dry mix to 1 cup meat, and Grandma Lucy’s says 1 cup dry mix to 1 OR 2 cups meat. The whole reason I started adding the premix to the meat was that I was a little worried about messing up the calcium. These instructions don’t necessarily make me feel more confident, so I keep the kibble around.

Dogaware.com has a very informative write-up about premixes for anyone who needs more information (premixes aren’t reviewed on this site).

[Dori]

LOL Cyndi. I was going to jump in on the amount of food you first mentioned. When I first read your post I thought. That’s a heck of a lot of food. That can’t possibly be right. Then GizmoMom jumped in.

Akari. From all that I know about pork, you absolutely have to freeze it a minimum of 2 weeks (longer probably better) to rid it of any parasites. Very important. Even if you buy it frozen at the store you still need to freeze it at home because you have no idea how long they froze the pork. I’ve got a 5 lb. Yorkipoo, a 6 lb. Maltipoo and a 7 lb. Maltese. They each get 1/4 cup of raw diet twice a day. Two to three times a week I split a small can (grocery store tuna fish aisle) of sardines in water to their meals. I don’t give them eggs because my Maltipoo is intolerant to any and all things poultry. On days that I do not give them sardines added to their meal I give them once a day a little squirt of Sardine Oil which I keep in the refrigerator on top of their meal. I use Nature’s Logic. I like the company and trust them. I also give them two or three times a week once a day only maybe about 1/8 tsp. (maybe a little less) of coconut oil. I just put it on their food and they eat it. I don’t give them more than that with the coconut oil because their poops will immediately get kind of soft, dark and gooey (sp?). Sorry for that poop description but that’s the only way I know of explaining it. Just in case it happens to you. I don’t think any of my gals digest the coconut oil too well. I have to say that sometimes weeks go by that I don’t bother with the coconut oil. I don’t see that it helps them one way or the other. I have tried the coconut chips that are sold but they come out looking exactly the same way they went in. White coconut chips in and out.

Oh! I forgot to mention that I feed commercial raw diets. I don’t feed any poultry whatsoever. Remember no bones that contain marrow. Way to fatty is the marrow. Beef ribs with a bit of meat (not a lot) are fine. If he actually eats the bone then you don’t need to also feed the meal. If he just chews the bone for entertainment value then, yes, feed the meal. Mine just think they’re toys. Will chew for a bit and then leave them laying around. The only dehydrated food that I feed (haven’t for a while) is The Honest Kitchen Zeal. The Zeal formula is because Katie (Maltipoo is intolerant of all things poultry. I don’t feed anything with potatoes in it. I had to stop feeding THK because of the alfalfa (again, Katie’s issues with alfalfa). They have started producing the Zeal without the alfalfa but are still trying to clear out their old stock and also their old boxes. Until their web site ingredient list does not include the alfalfa and the boxes do not say alfalfa then I’ll wait them out. I will go back to the Zeal at that time. OK. Sorry for such a long post. Anything else I can help with just ask, if not me, then someone else. Hey also I’ve been thinking for the longest time that you should change your name to The Coupon Lady or just Coupon Lady. Anyway anytime I see your name I always think…Oh? It’s the coupon lady. LOL!

[Dori]

Hi BRT. I don’t have much time for a long response right now. I’ve had a very busy week hunting and capturing a lost Maltese puppy that roamed our neighborhood so I’ve really got to catch up on my girls, laundry, groceries, all that. I had let everything go.

I don’t have time to go back through all the posts so my quick question to you is have you considered feeding Commercial Raw? It’s the only thing that worked for Katie (Maltipoo). She was a real mess from the age of 9 weeks. I put all the girls on raw about 2 1/2 years ago and she’s never had an allergy issue again. It’s much easier to control and source out the ingredients in commercial raw than it is in kibble. That’s my opinion anyway.

[Dori]

Hi Maureen. There is only one Editors Choice List for Foods. There is not a specific list for raw foods. The two raw foods that I am remembering that appear on the August list are Primal and Stella and Chewy’s.

I may have missed or overlooked an earlier post of yours about The Honest Kitchen. The Honest Kitchen is not a raw dog food. Is that what you were wondering or did you just want to know if there was a separate raw dog food EC list?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Dori.

[BRT]

Thank you so much for posting that. I had no idea. His vet basically told me I could give him 4mg of Pepcid every morning for the rest of his life (he’s 8 year’s old).

I guess I’m bad to the drawing board. This is been an ongoing struggle to find the right food and it’s getting worse the older he’s getting. I’m optimistic in the beginning then after about a month it goes downhill (and this is with almost every food I’ve tried).

The only one he had been on for years without problem was Natural Balance LID Venison, but I stopped feeding him that after the recalls.

[Melissaandcrew]

Definitely check his weight. Her total weight gain was less then a lb but her body shape changed. She LOOKS like she gained several lbs but the scale doesnt lie. She was increased from 1/2 of a quarter grain twice a day to one full tablet twice a day just under a myth ago because her first reading said the blood level was low and she still seizures. She also takes zonisimide twice a day. With her, the pills can not be late or she will have a seizure. Good luck on level draws for you and Otis (Love that name..we lost our Otis a year ago) We repeat in 2 wks.

[Akari_32]

As some of you guys may know, my moms dog Bentley, a 7 pound jack russell/maltese mix, has a terrible time with yeast infections on his skin, mainly his back half, and all four paws. I finally decided it wasn’t a food allergy, but a seasonal allergy (and every season in FL is allergy season) after trying nearly every dry food on the shelf here, and put him on By Nature 95% canned, which we have to order online every three weeks. And even then, he needs a whole can (he is extremely active and has a high metabolism), but we manage to get by with 3/4 of a can one day, and then 1/4 of a can the next with 1/4 cup (dry measured) of a THK grain free complete mix, and that keeps his weight up well enough. If I didn’t happen to have a couple sample boxes of THK, I don’t know what I’d do! Anyway, his fur is growing back, he’s overall much better, but I still feel like he needs a bit more of a better diet to push his recovery into the right direction.

I’m wanting to do a pre-mix, and have it narrowed down to Urban Wolf and See Spot Live Longer. But I have issues with both. My only issue with UW is the price! I coupon for my dog food, and there is definitely some major sticker shock going on there. I need to know how much food the whole bag would make, and about how long it would last him before I can really pick this one or not. Then theres SSLL. The price is great, as just $17 a 1lb bag. Each bag claims to make 26lb of food, but there are no feeding guidelines or preparation instructions on the website! And the owner of the site doesn’t seem to have all his ducks in a row, either, from what I hear. But the priiiiiice! Its so affordable sounding! I’d love to hear your all’s thoughts on these mixes, and I’d also like to know of any other low carb, and no/minimal sweet potato and carrot mixes out there (Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo’s are out– not high enough calories).

I was also wondering, at his size, how often, and how much, should I offer eggs and sardines? And what brand of sardines do you guys use?

As for proteins, pork and chicken are very high up on the contenders list. Ground pork is just $2.49 a pound, and most pieces of chicken are $1.99 a pound and less. What are your guy’s thoughts on pork as a decent chunk of the dogs diet? I hear such mixed things about pork in general for dogs, but he sure does love a good country rib! And about the chicken, I hear many people like to use dark meat chicken because of the fat content. This sounds great to me because its *cheap*, thighs in particular being just $1.49 a pound. Is this correct? He can certainly use any extra fat he can get (him and cat are running around the house like lunatics right now, even!).

I also want you guys to ok my “staple” meat choices:
Chicken Thighs
Chicken Gizzards
Chicken Livers
Chicken Necks
Chicken Backs
Chicken Wings
Turkey Livers
Turkey Gizzards
Turkey Necks
Turkey Backs
Turkey Wings
Beef Heart
Beef Liver
Country Ribs
Ground Pork

There are more, but I can’t think of them. And then I will also throw in whatever’s on a good sale at the time. Beef is expensive, so it’ll be mostly turkey, chicken, pork (given what ever you guys say about the pork) and beef parts. He doesn’t like fish, so thats not going to be anything I’ll force on him, other than the occasional sardine for his skin and coat. And I know liver shouldn’t be a very large part of the diet. They aren’t sold in very big packages, anyways lol (and some pre-mixes call for them?)

My last question for now, when I want to offer a protein with bone in it (RMB), could I feed him the pre-mix prepared with no meat (separated out during prep before meat is added), and then give him the RMB? Or could I just give the RMB as the meal and forget the pre-mix (but how often can I do that?)? Or I could remove all the meat from the bone, and give him just the bone as a munchy treat. Given his mushy diet, I would really like to make sure he gets enough to chew on. My plan is to make his meals for one to two weeks ahead on a weekend, and then freeze them all in a planned out sort of manner, and mark out his meals by day. That way I can make sure he gets the right amount of sardines and egg, and gets a good rotation of meat.

That’ll do for now, i think. I’m just in the planning stages, so I’m open to any suggestions, change in plans, tips, whatever. Thanks! 🙂

[Holly C]

Now that it’s almost fall, my family has been eating more meat (beef, chicken, etc.) and I’d like to utilize scraps in any way I can. By the way- I am using fully cooked meat. I don’t want to do any organs or raw meat, because it’s not easily accessible for me, or affordable. I was thinking of using the leftover chicken, stock, vegetables, and rice from our dinners to make some food. I have a food processor to make this. Does anyone want to share some ideas for ingredients and tips? What meats are good for canned food? Which vegetable provide the best vitamins? Should I add any vitamins or oils? Which foods should I avoid? I’m not feeding this alone, but instead on top of his food. Also, I heard somewhere that you should never can with rice, is that true?

[Melissaandcrew]

Eric-yes, its not just a result of increased appetite. Gina eats the same amount of food as before, and yet has gained. We will not cut here food back any further as she seriously eats a very small amount. Oh, and she eats low carb foods and raw, and it still occurred. Interesting enough, after the small weight gain, she has not gained anything additional..

[Naturella]

Liz S, I also think adding canned will do much, much good! When I use canned, I prefer the pate-style ones, and I add a bit of water with the canned and kibble (I mix dry and canned usually), and make it mushy/porridge-like/soupy, and this way I try to counter the dryness of the kibble.

My dog is small too (Jack Russell-mini Rat Terrier mix (we think, as he was found in the bushes), 13.5 lbs), but I never really fed him a small-breed specific food except for his very first one when we adopted him. Foods I have tried that he did good on (and could eat the kibble with no problems) are: Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension, Dr. Tim’s (slightly bigger kibble, but oh well, he managed it just fine), Nutrisca, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free, Victor Grain Free (lots of samples), Nature’s Variety Instinct (samples), Now! Fresh (sample), NutriSource Grain Free (samples), Annamaet (samples), Wysong (samples), and I have a lot lined up – Back to Basics, Canidae Pure, Dogswell LiveFree, Wysong, NVI, more Victor Grain Free (which, in my case (heads up to LabsRawesome), told me I could PURCHASE the samples at $0.33/baggie, but wouldn’t send me free ones, AND I had to pay the shipping… But I stocked up at 5 samples/food, lol).

All the kibbles aside from Dr. Tim’s were small enough and just fine to manage. For canned I have fed Wellness Core, Nutro Natural Source and Nutro Ultra, and now I feed The Honest Kitchen (THK) dehydrated with water instead of canned. I also add a raw egg once a week, coconut oil with some lukewarm water every other day, and yoghurt/kefir every other day, as well as a canned sardine and its fish juice from the can once a week too. So you can use some of these for variety and to cut the costs of canned.

[pugmomsandy]

The reasons for adding a quality canned food: add moisture to the diet, quality canned foods have a good amount of protein since they don’t need carbohydrate binders like kibble, it’s easier to digest since it’s not hard and dry like kibble, they don’t have preservatives in them, and it’s easy to mix in powdered supplements. Canned foods are more species-appropriate than dry pellets.

Drawbacks: softer stool sometimes and the canned foods usually don’t include probiotics. They might have prebiotics like inulin/chicory root.

You don’t have to stick with the same brand of wet as you are using dry. Use various brands and feed a rotaional diet.

[aquariangt]

Those allergy tests can be sketchy. If you got another one run then you would most likely get different results. I second the suggestion of an elimination diet, and use small bags and try out some LIDs to figure out what’s working. Or homemade/raw

[DogFoodie]

I’m not quite sure how I feel about those test results.

For example, in the green column it lists “fish,” herring/anchovy and salmon, but in the red column it lists “fish meal,” ocean whitefish and tuna as well as salmon oil.

I’d be curious to know how you did the elimination diet and what you foods you fed. Did any of them work?

I know how frustrating ear issues are and getting the food intolerances figured out can be even more frustrating. I know it wouldn’t stop the cycle and obviously, you’re doing the right thing trying to figure out the cause, but have you tried Zymox to keep it at bay somewhat? Works like magic.

I think I’d also try raw if I were you. I’m fortunate that I could find a couple of kibbles that worked and I do have to top them to keep mine interested because raw was going to be too cost prohibitive for me as I use commercial raw foods. I didn’t see whole ground turkey at My Pet Carnivore, but you might find another protein you could use: https://mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?lang=en

[InkedMarie]

If you can afford it, feed raw. I would start with turkey, looks like you can also use lamb and goat. If you’re looking to feed dry, turkey may be your only option. Possibly duck; I think duck eggs are different than duck as a protein. The a Honest Kitchen dehydrated has a duck and turkey.

[Stewart]

One of my dogs does the Preference and loves it but he loves everything. He has IBD, allergies, and is sensitive to bone found in all the frozen raw commercial diets. This brand really works for us. He tried almost all the flavors(before we allergy tested) and he does best with the Preference w/ raw meat or Zeal.

I think THK is a great food for dogs that are sensitive or picky. But I dont feel like the complete diets are that much better compared to a good kibble….I mean if I had a dog that had no issues,was completely healthy, wasnt picky and I couldn’t afford a balanced homemade I dont think I would give him a commercial dehydrated food w/steamed meats over a good kibble. They are both cooked (yes you save a bit of nutrients).To me the cost doesn’t seem worth it. Saying that I do love the pre-mix with raw meat because it works for my sensitive guy.

Maybe make your own food like before but get a good balanced recipe!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Stewart.

[pugmomsandy]

The 80/10/10 numbers for raw feeding is an “average”. But what’s included in the average? Small whole animals whose bones can be consumed and larger animals whose bones cannot! For instance, let’s say a wolf eats mostly muscle/organs from a bison and hardly any of it’s bones because they’re too dense. Just have to keep in mind the phrase “balance over time” when feeding raw. But since you are going by a recipe, your food should end up mostly balanced than not! Liver should ideally be not more than 5%. Sometimes I add more muscle meat and sometimes I don’t. So sometimes my batch is around 30% bone and sometimes near 10%. I’m not exact all the time. I add heart, gizzard, tripe or muscle meat like thighs as additional “muscle meat” and have to do some algebra to figure it all out! For 5 lbs of whole chicken that’s around 30% bone, I can add up to 9.5 lbs of muscle and half a pound of additional liver to make it around 10% bone and around 5% liver. I haven’t seen (or looked for) bone content numbers for whole calf. I use preymodelraw.com for some figures on bone content. This is just what I do. http://preymodelraw.com/page/articles.html/_/raw-chat/common-cuts-a-photographic-guide-to-raw-meaty-r15

[USA]

Hi Karene

The term “not for human consumption” applies to ALL dog foods. It has nothing to do with the quality of the ingredients. The minute a food is labeled for dogs it is now “not for human consumption”

Foods like raw or green tripe and any food with ground bone are never allowed for human consumption. Foods like beef, chicken and salmon whether they are the highest quality and “human-grade people food” once they are labeled as dog food they are not for human consumption. It is a regulation thing.

Hope this helps

[DogFoodie]

What about The Honest Kitchen’s new base mix Kindly, to which, you add your own fresh meat? THK actually has six grain free recipes now. I’ve tried Farmina and liked it ~ I found it to be budget friendly as well. Nature’s Logic isn’t grain free as it contains the pseudo grain, millet; but, it’s a great food.

If you haven’t already, you could take a look at Susan Thixton’s site. There are several companies that have signed her “Pledge.” “The Pledge” is a manufacturer’s statement of quality and origin of ingredients. I cannot say for certain (without going through each brand on the list) that all of those who have signed The Pledge are China Free; however, there is a specific column on the document where the manufacturer must indicate whether or not China is the country of origin for each ingredient. There aren’t a lot of foods on the list. There aren’t many kibbles. Some of the foods are frozen, raw diets that can only be shipped to certain locations, etc.; but, it’s a place to start and if nothing else, it’s interesting.

This link is to The Pledge, specifically: http://associationfortruthinpetfood.com/the-pledge/

Here’s another link to Susan’s regular site: http://truthaboutpetfood.com/

[Akari_32]

Hey guys!

Thanks for clearing up that egg info, C4C. I knew it was something along the lines of preventing some nutrient from being used.

The hunt for the “perfect” premix is going terrible! LOL I like the price point of SSLL, but not knowing how to mix it (no instructions on the site that I could find), I can’t decide yet. I do have to narrowed down between that and Urban Wolf, though. These both look like the best options for Bentley. I didn’t like how either of Sojo’s premixes looked. Have you gotten your SSLL, C4C? I gotta find out how it’s prepared before I make a choice… Lol

I haven’t thought about if I’ll do all raw premix meals, or go between canned and raw premix. I’m not so sure I’ll do completely raw, either. I may par-cook the meat, just to brown it up on the outside, or whatever. Don’t really know yet.

I will look into those links, Bobby Dog, thanks 🙂

[Eric H]

Wow! Vigorous conversation!
I must say, I am never surprised by how passionate pet lovers are about their information and beliefs; I know we ALL strive to do the best we can for our beloved animals and any suggestion by anyone that we might not be doing it “perfectly” can be difficult to digest (pun-in-context intended…) I am confident we are all doing the best we can, which should always include being receptive to the input of others – not as insult or criticism, but as another option we may choose to consider and discard or adopt as we feel appropriate.

So having said that, thank you for the raft of input!!
LabsRawesome – Dehydrated fat free meats – I will look into that some more. You prompted some pretty animated discussion on that topic, I will check it out and see if it could apply to Otis.
somebodysme – Otis gets the following exercise: 1h walk/day, plus combination of some or all of: extended backyard ball chasing (loves chasing/returning a ball), repeated toy chasing inside including up/down stairs at times. He always seems satisfied and tired at the end of any of these, so we are hopeful he is getting enough of a total workout on a daily/weekly basis. Smaller treats is another option – at the moment he gets enough to let him chew for a few minutes (iei 1 baby carrot, 1 small flower stalk of cauliflower). Very food motivated, and would eat treats continuously until he passed out I think, regardless of size! ha.
Dori – High Carbs, yes we had no idea of the sugar/carb contents of *veggies* (foreign concept, thinking veggies were harmless as many human diet plans allow “unlimited fruits / veggies”. “oosp.” We got a USDA list of some 1,000 different foods, catalogued them by Sugar, Cal, and Fat and found a new short-list of options which include many of what you suggested, thanks! We will start by substituting his sweet potato with turnip for example and cutting back on carrots (still good for teeth…just less of them). Otis gets strictly 2 small formal meals per day, total 1cup per day + treats.
sue66b – Pancreatitis, IBD, and skin issues? Ouch! Poor guy. Our Otis had significant skin issues also (like crutsy awful human eczema patches) but disappeared when we switched foods! Very rare small flare-ups (likely from external contact sources) are treated with some polysporin ointment for 1 or 2 days and it goes away. Banana and rice cakes! Bananas might work but sugar is higher than the short-list I will be trying for now (12.2g/100g USDA), might try use banana as an occasional option. Tuna might be another option – I only scanned veggies and fruit, so I don’t have the tuna numbers, I will look that up, thanks!
aimee – Yes, we really thought we’d lose him before we found a safe diet…it was a pretty stressful time back then!! Your history suggestion is good, I think we’ll try to take note of just how many “treats” he is getting compared to 10% intake – when they are small bites you forget what they add up to over the day.

Thanks everyone for their contributions and continued pet-passion!
-e

[USA]

Hi aimee

You wrote:

“Experimentally compounds that mimic the hormone CCK result in pancreatitis. In these studies high amounts are given.”

From the book you referenced: “Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012”. Caps added by me:

“EXPERIMENTAL PANCREATITIS can be initiated by HYPERSTIMULATION with CCK ANALOGS (Morita et al. 1998; Saluja et al. 2007), BUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.”

The book says they used CCK ANALOGS, NOT CCK and that HYPERSTIMULATION was induced. This is different than the CCK released during a high protein and/or high fat meal eaten by a dog! And the book also says “THE IMPORTANCE OF THESE MECHANISMS IN SPONTANEOUS DISEASE IS UNKNOWN.” So the book admits that they don’t know the importance of their findings for dogs who get pancreatitis in the real world and not from hyperstimulation of the pancreas with CCK analogs in the lab!

You also wrote:

“The most potent dietary stimulation of CCK is fat. Protein though also stimulates CCK release.”

What the book actually says is: (caps added by me)

In dogs, fatty acids (Sun et al. 1992), amino acids, and peptides stimulate CCK release, BUT INTACT PROTEINS DO NOT (Meyer and Kelly 1976).

What are the intact proteins the book references? Are they the proteins in a raw or lightly cooked fresh homemade diet of lean meats, poultry and fish?

[Susan]

THANK-YOU Aimee, my vet did exlpained why Patch cant have liver treats, but I was so stressed at the time & cant remember that day too well, yes Patch can’t have a high protein diet either..Aimee what are you feeding ur dog that has Pancreatitis, I’m running out of foods to try for breakfast…I thought I had found the Tuna & pumkin for his breakfast, he’s been on the tuna since June & was doing real well but now he’s having his pain again & whinging after his breakfast these last 2 weeks…if I give him his kibble for breakfast or boiled chicken breast & pumkin he has his pain, I dont know what to give for breakfast no more, Maybe Patch just cant eat breakfast, he seems fine after eating kibble for lunch & dinner…I was going to try Rolled oats..Vet did want me to try Prednisone but I’ve been trying everthing possible before I try him on the Steriods.. Patch also has bad stomach reflux & acid always burping after eating & I thought the steroids will make things worse….Ive read on the Yahoo group “Dogpancreatitis” a few dogs are doing really well on the Vet prescription diet Royal Canin Low Fat kibble as the fat% is 7%….. Patch is on Vet Diet Eukanuba Intestinal its 10% fat & about 1 month ago I started introducing the Wellness Simple Duck & Oatmeal kibble the fat is 11.98%, I’m adding 1/2 the Simple & 1/2 the Intestinal for lunch & dinner at the moment, maybe that has started Patches pain again…. I dont know no more…its an awful disease…
Eric if your reading, did you ever give Otis any cooked meats, I read that the raw didnt work, my vet said NO RAW, thats was 1 thing I can remember Lol….I mite look up the Hills I/d GI restore, I bet we dont have that one in Australia alot of the Hills foods were cut back

[aimee]

Hi Dori and LabsRawsome,

Experimentally compounds that mimic the hormone CCK result in pancreatitis. In these studies high amounts are given. The most potent dietary stimulation of CCK is fat. Protein though also stimulates CCK release.

From the table in Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition 2012 on foods to avoid with chronic pancreatitis “Dry meat treats ( jerky)” The text also cautions against feeding diets very high in protein to patients with a history of pancreatitis.

Hope this helps explain why Patch doesn’t do well with jerky treats.

[Susan]

Labs & Dori, I dont think it was the amount of fat in the jerky, it was cause jerkys are hard & dont digest real good, Patch doesnt chew liver jerky & would just gulp them, then the jerky just sat in his stomach & was the final straw that put him in hospital..VET SAID NO MORE LIVER jerky…also gives him bad diarrhea…. Its was not RIDICULOUS Dori, my dog was in hospital for 2 days…. also I said MY boy can’t eat jerky I don’t see anything wrong with that comment, there was no need to be sarcastic Dori..

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Susan.

[Michelle D]

Wow, I totally meant Darwin’s. Should have reread better.
I will definitely talk to my vet about taking him off raw. I was just wondering because Darwin’s has a kidney diet now. Thanks

[Dori]

Wow Labs. You and I seem to be on the same page of late. Dried jerky meat absolutely cannot cause Pancreatitis. Seriously? As Judge Judy would say……RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!
.
On a completely different subject, the girls had their first meal of Victor’s Grain Free (Yukon–the only one that Katie can eat). Other than Katie having a gurgling stomach all seems well. I’m going to try feeding that in the a.m. and raw for their p.m. meals. It would be so great if they can actually eat a dry food. I haven’t gone anywhere since I put the dogs on raw food 2 1/2 years ago. I’ve become a slave to my girls. Not that I wasn’t before, but at least my husband or dog sitters or kennels would feed kibble, they won’t do raw. Truthfully, I wouldn’t trust them anyway. It would really be nice not to be a slave to their meal times. I’ll let you know how it goes on the Victor site.

[Pat G]

I have not heard of Dawson. I have used Darwin’s which I was very happy with. If your dog has kidney problems the protein may be to high in raw foods. I think Dog Food Advisor has a section of recommended dog foods for kidney problem. I took my dog off of raw because of pancreatitis.

[Michelle D]

I am interested in getting this raw diet. I have a few dogs and one has kidney issues. They offer a prescription section. Is this a high quality raw food ? Any issues or concerns.

[Eric H]

Hello – Long time lurker to this fantastic site and forum members, finally time to post and ask for input!

Our 10 second intros:
The Pooch: “Otis,” 25+lb, 7yr old happy active male neutered mini-Schnoodle (14.5″ withers) unfortunately with severe pancreas issues and epilepsy (controlled by daily phenobarbital).

The current food: 1/2c x 2 per day = 1 cup / day of Hills I/D GI Restore – the ONLY food we have found, after trying MANY options including raw and alternative pancreas-safe home-brews, which doesn’t send him to the hospital for 24-48hrs at $500+ a crack. Ouch. We actually thought he would die before we found something he could eat. This is the *only* food so far which has kept him out of the hospital >1yr and counting! [knock on wood]. Note this is about HALF his recommended amount, as we were previously already trying to keep his weight down – it isn’t working!

The current treats: Carrots and Cauliflower (can’t eat fat, remember?), Watermelon, dried sweet-potato/yam slices. He gets his pill (twice a day) in a small cube of cooked sweet potato which works out to 1 full sweet potato per week. That’s about it.

Ok. So.
The reason for interrupting you all!
He is currently a little pork-chop pushing 26 lbs and should be closer to 20-25ish despite eating the above “low fat” diet (so he doesn’t die from pancreatitis) and ZERO extras other than a large contingent of veggies and his beloved sweet-potato. Then I lurk on this site to try to figure out why he is still gaining so much weight… CARBS + SUGARS!? Oh fer cryin out loud! Carrots, one of his favourites, high in carbs. Who knew.

So the question is: What the heck do I feed the poor guy so he doesn’t die from either pancreatitis or complications of being overweight!

The current plan: Get a list of low-carb low-sugar veggies and try to stay low on both for his “treats,” as the food itself “ain’t broke so don’t touch it,” as any guesswork in that department could have serious complications.

Thoughts?
Thanks!
-e

[Nancy C]

I have a GSD who had acute diarrhea from eating Origen and Acana. Both have lentils and chick peas so I would NOT recommend that. AFter weeks of working with a vet we finally got him onto a sensitive stomach food which he did well on. That was Purina Pro Plan for Sen Stomachs. Hated the THOUGHT of Purina but it worked well. (I have heard that their boutiquey higher end brands are much better but I do not KNOW that this is true). This food is NOT in the Groc Stores. We fed that for a month. Then the vet said move to a regular kibble. I chose DR TIMS PERSUIT and he has done beautifully on it now for 3 months. It is for an active dog. You might want to move “down” to KINESIS which is what my Golden Retriever eats and likes. But I rotate. Dr Tims has a website. his food is NOT GMO or Organic but it is made in a facility that meets European standards which are higher than the US. Try the website and read about it. I am planning to move him in Sept to RAW, simply because I am convinced it is healthier. Brothers Complete is another excellent brand to consider. Can study that at DFA and their website. And VICTORS. I have no experience with either. Just putting it out there. The best of luck to you.

[corky b]

Hi All,
My 9 yrs old border collie was just diagnosed with DI which apparently is a very rare thing. Med school are $700 per month. No way I can do that. Changing up her diet to reduce the sodium. Just bought raw frozen beef and small bag of sojourn mix. At this point I’m so confused at t he whole raw thing. What’s the best most economical way to get her a good low sodium diet? Anyone know?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Akari-
According to Steve Brown (SSLL), it is the egg whites that can interfere with the body’s ability to absorb the biotin in the yolks if not lightly cooked. But that is only if feeding many raw eggs or feeding more whites than yolks. He recommends lightly cooking while keeping yolks in tact. Dogs Naturally magazine recommends feeding them raw to avoid ruining the good stuff in the egg whites. They say that there is enough Biotin in the diet to not worry about it. So, who knows? You just have to go with your gut on this one! 🙂 But you are right, you’d probably only want to feed a dog that small one every other week or so.
How is the hunt for the perfect premix going?

[Akari_32]

Bentley doesn’t like THK made straight for more than a day in a row. He also doesn’t like it too thick. God forbid the dog actually have to work for his food (rolls eyes). He doesn’t mind it, though, as long as its not too thick. He’ll eat it, but you can see that he’s not overly happy about it lol He happily eats it when I mix the rest of his canned food in with some every other day, though. Maybe it doesn’t taste meaty enough on its own?

I haven’t tried eggs yet, no. I don’t know how much to give him. He’s so little, only about 7 or 8 pounds, I can’t figure out how to feed him! I’m so used to my dogs where I just throw some food at them and adjust accordingly to their weight every few weeksLOL I also want to give him a fish oil pill like I give the big dogs every day, but again, he’s just too little for me to know much to give him and how often. Back to the eggs, I’d rather give him a raw one, so that it mixes nicely with his canned and THK (and I don’t have to screw with trying to not add too much water lol), but I know that too much raw egg can prevent them from absorbing protein, or something. I used to give the other dogs raw eggs every night before I realized that! Whoops! LOL

Whats the most cost effect pre-mix? I was looking at Urban Wolf, and thats pretty expensive. I don’t know how $50 a month (at the least!) would go over for mom. How do you guys like PureFormance by Grandma Lucy’s?

http://www.chewy.com/dog/grandma-lucys-pureformance-grain/dp/46165

I’d have to look a little more into it, because I recall their complete mixes being really low calorie, and a dog Bentley’s size would need a whole pound of it, which seemed crazy, but for now, the price point is good, and might be a good choice. I like that something sugary isn’t the first ingredient, given his yeast problem (Urban Wolf starts with carrots, and others I’ve seen start with sweet potatoes or white potatoes).

The Urban Wolf, how much does a 3lb bag make?

I’ll also be looking at Sojo’s, but I think thats low calorie, too. And I’ll see about SSLL, as well 🙂

[Bobby dog]

Hey Akari:
I hope your mom appreciates your dedication to Bentley!

I second C4c’s vote for eggs. Although I initially used them to help with the healing process, Bobby still gets one poached egg a week; he won’t eat raw egg anymore. His skin and coat is in great shape.

I haven’t posted the ink info yet because I have forgotten where I put the files with the info on my computer. I think I will just post the info that my Professor relayed to me to use as a guide when buying generic cartridges from memory; that could be scary. lol

I was just working on my pet food grocery list and saw your post in my e-mail. You would be proud, I have a $5 off entire purchase that expires tomorrow and a free dog toy with $15 purchase coupon (and various others) I don’t want to waste so I thought I better get organized.

There are some Pro Plan recipes that seem to only come in the 5.5 oz. the rest are regular size cans; or at least I haven’t seen them in larger cans, but I haven’t really looked.

THK was okay, but I don’t think I will purchase any of their products at this time. Bobby liked them the first few feedings, now not so much. There was also a fabulous pro/con discussion regarding the food on one of the THK reviews that was very interesting! I don’t really have any comment on their pre-mix because I haven’t looked at it and I don’t know of anybody who has fed it.

I really have not done any in-depth research on making food for Bobby. I would try to feed lean, organic meat if I was making his meals, but never looked any further as to what type of proteins would be best for him. At this time if I were to purchase a pre-mix it would probably be See Spot Live Longer or Urban Wolf. I think C4c just purchased SSLL so you will be able to get a first hand review if you are interested. I don’t have the time to research the subject properly so I bookmarked some sites when I do. Here’s a link to some pre-mix info:

http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html

[Akari_32]

Just a little update 🙂

Hair is growing back pretty well, and he’s starting to keep on weight. I think I’ve finally balanced his diet out in a way that has him eating minimally, while still getting the calories he needs.

I’m having trouble finding the Pro Plan I want. I have a few more places to check though. Apparently, they are 5.5 oz cans? Does that sound like what you get, Bobby Dog? And I have some more looking in to for the Nutro Ultra.

I was thinking of getting him a pre-mix, like THK’s new ones, and using pork for the protein. It’s cheap, but it’s still raw. But I’ve heard some different things about how digestible pork is and isn’t, so I’d like to see what you guys have to say about that first.

[WestCoastGSD]

Since starting a premixed raw diet that is complete and balanced, my dogs not only have no gas to speak of, but their poop literally does not stink, unless you jammed it in your face of course. Stools are smaller and much firmer due to the fact that your dog’s body is able to absorb more of the nutrients in his food, therefore less waste. I am feeding multiple dogs and not a single soft stool since we made the switch, and feeding time is a madhouse as they are very excited and the food disappears rapidly. As a kibble feeder for over 20 years and someone who doesn’t even like to deal with raw meat, I finally decided to sacrifice my own squeamishness for the betterment of my dogs and am so happy to say it was well worth it! PS big yellow rubber kitchen gloves are a key ingredient in feeding a raw diet, that much I will tell you LOL!!

[WestCoastGSD]

Mike, Well it’s disappointing you are unable to put Common Sense Dog Food on your list due to the missing AAFCO labeling, but I do understand you have your rules. It is truly a great food and if you speak to the developer of the food she can probably tell you why she hasn’t done the AAFCO labeling. I know she does not really market the food at all beyond her website and her own personal clients. As the Southern California distributor now for this food I truly hope it gets to be more well known for how great it is for all life stages as it is a complete and balanced diet and has been proven over many years of feeding trials with multiple generations of dogs and over 350 litters of puppies, x-raying for joint development issues etc in the dogs that were raised on it, which is more than can be said for most “complete” raw diets out there, commercial pet foods, and for those that haphazardly try to come up with their own raw food formulation for their dogs. For years I steered my clients away from a raw diet for their growing puppies because I did not know of a good complete and correctly balanced raw diet until I found Common Sense. I didn’t want them running into developmental issues with their puppies because they were lacking in something essential, or overdoing it as both can cause harm. All this being said I understand your site has it’s rules, but if the day ever comes I would love to see Common Sense Raw Dog Food added to your list of Editor’s Choice foods. Thanks for your time. ~ Barbara DiBernardo

[matt n]

I suggest looking through the thread the others are suggesting. That’s what I’ve had to do with the absence of response to my own questions.

I might be wrong but these are the conclusions I’ve drawn for what to feed my puppy (poodle/GR mix).

A raw food diet is probably the “best”…if you have unlimited funds. For myself, I tried to find a balance of affordability, healthiness, and convenience. As a result I’ve narrowed it down to these dry foods…

Annamaet Grain-Free Aqualuk
Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet
Dr. Tim’s Kinesis
Dr. Tim’s Kinesis Grain-Free
Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch
Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast
Nature’s Variety Instinct
Victor Select
Wellness CORE Grain-Free Puppy

I’ll eventually try all of these and see which my puppy does best on. If that’s too much trial and error for you, I’d go with Dr. Tim’s Kinesis.

As far as I can tell, grain free vs grain inclusive usually only matters if your pup has issues with grains or if you’re into the “fads.”

But once again this is just my observations from perusing the forums.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by matt n.

[Nancy C]

I speak with no authority however, have reviewed in detail and have come to the same conclusion. Have talked to Scott the owner and he is very informed and I think they are committed to making a superior food. I like the “no synthetic vitamins.” He does not commit to GMO and I asked him WHY. Answ was that there is no established definition of exactly what that is and how one can claim to be GMO (I am paraphrasing) and until there are set definitions of it he is not claiming it. However, they strive toward the best. I was going to use it in my rotation until I decided to try Raw. Should that not work NL will def be in my rotation.

[Bobby dog]

You are welcome and congrats on your good fortune!! At least you have a few places/foods to look at if you are ever in a pinch again!

Victor is recommended often on DFA. I have only fed a few samples of Victor to my dog which he loved. No one sells it by me so if it ever becomes available locally, I will be feeding it as part of my rotation. I feed some commercial raw as toppers and feed the ABC diet weekly and I believe your dogs will enjoy the variety. Good luck with your pups!!

[gmcbogger38]

Thanks again for the tips! I have had my life take a 360 degree change for the better, so I’ll have a little more money at my disposal when choosing a dog food. I’ve heard a lot of great things with Victor Ultra Pro, so I want to try that and possibly also feed raw a few times per week. Still doesn’t hurt to save money, though!

[pugmomsandy]

I’m not familiar with MPC grinds, but if you get the ones with bone and organs included, I wouldn’t add anything to it besides the vitamin supplements if you like. The heart and gizzard and tripe count as “muscle meat” in a recipe just like chicken breast. You can feed tripe daily if you like. You might consider getting a meat grinder that has at least 1 hp if you plan on feeding raw grinds long term. 1hp (and even .75 hp) is sufficient to grind chicken bones. You can cut costs by buying bulk chicken legs and necks and organs by the case. Grind up 50 lbs of food at a time and save on time!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[USA]

Hi sue

Since the Malaseb works I am going to make a suggestion for a natural, soothing, cooling, antibacterial and antifungal rinse or spray for the skin that costs me about $15 USD to make a gallon

1 Gallon Aloe Vera juice. No sweeteners or anything else, just aloe vera juice. Remove 16 oz of juice. Replace with 8 oz of regular witch hazel and 8 oz of raw (cloudy) Apple Cider Vinegar. Shake Well

The Aloe soothes and helps rebuild damaged skin.
Apple Cider Vinegar is a natural, effective antibacterial and antifungal.
Witch Hazel soothes and cools irritated skin.

You can put it in a spray bottle and mist Patch’s feet and in between his toes. You can mist his body paying special attention not to get any in his mouth, nose or eyes. You can put some in your hands or on a cloth and gently rub it into the places on his head.

This mixture is safe to use up to 2 times a day. The witch Hazel contains some alcohol but the amount used will only bring the total alcohol content of the gallon to just under 1%. I like the regular witch hazel better than the alcohol-free version because the alcohol-free version is preserved with either parabens (bad) or benzoic acid (i’d rather use a little alcohol).

Good Luck and give Patch a body rub for me!!!

[Naturella]

Lihan, there are many good foods out there. The best thing to do is rotate between brands and also protein types – some well-regarded foods are Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s, Victor, Wellness, GO!, Now! Fresh, Earthborn Holistic to name a few. I don’t think all of them are GMO-free, but they are quality foods nonetheless. You can also supplement with canned sardines, fish oil, coconut oil (those three do wonders for skin and coat), probiotics/digestive enzymes/yoghurt/kefir/canned plain pumpkin, cottage cheese, and if particularly “adventurous” – a raw egg here and there and maybe some raw too or Raw Meaty Bones (RMBs – like chicken wings, legs, necks, backs, pork neck bones, beef ribs, etc.) Or, even some good-quality canned or dehydrated will do the trick! 🙂

Shopping online is usually easy and convenient and websites such as http://www.petflow.com , http://www.chewy.com , http://www.wag.com , http://www.petfooddirect.com , etc. usually have good deals that you will know of if you sign up for their emails.

Good luck, happy feeding and rotating, and don’t hesitate to post any and all questons you have – the crowd on this site is amazingly knowledgeable and supportive.