[pugmomsandy]

You can supplement their diet with the freeze dried raw food but usually it is alot more expensive per pound unless you can also get that wholesale.

[kcarter137]

I am new to this site and find it so thankful that I found it. Hopefully I won’t sound crazy but here it goes. I have had a really hard time finding food that work for my dogs. Everytime I think I have found a food it or they seem to have problems. They were all on California Natual or Innova and doing great until I changed them in October due to news that P&G bought them.

I have four dogs. Here is the breakdown:
13 year old golden female. Years ago the vet reccomended their Iams fish and potato diet which worked fine but due to budget reasons we switched her to California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. She did wonderful for many years on that. We tried Taste of the Wild’s fish formula and immeditetly she started itching. Now she is on Tuscan Natural Lamb Formula. She is doing fine with her allergies on it (aka no itching) but after reading reviews I feel like I am feeding her an imcomplete food.
5 year old golden (no problem). Also eating Tuscan Natual Lamb Formula.
2 year old great dane mix (crazy sensitive GI tract). Eating Tuscan Natural Turkey and Chicken.
1 year old 13 lb mix (has major skin issues). She’s eating Orijen Adult – so far the only food that hasn’t triggered her demodex.

Here is the real question. Supplementing their diets with a freeze-dried raw food make since or should I switch their kibble? I am on a budget – but I can get Tuscan Natual at wholesale price which is about $35 a bag. I feed about 11 cups of food daily between all the dogs.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by kcarter137.

[Anonymous]

We have two shelter dogs: Bennie, some kind of border/bernese mix, 3 years old, adopted 1.5 years ago; and Fidget, a female doberman(?), 1 year old, adopted 6 months ago.

I have a husband who, if the dog doesn’t finish his bowl of kibble, dresses up the kibble with whatever he can find in the refrigerator — teaching the dog, of course that, if he holds out, he’ll get goodies on his food. When the husband is away on business, I put down a bowl of kibble with nothing else, and the dog finishes his plate.

Bennie kind of liked Purina One Beyond, but I know it’s not a great food and, if I remember right, we were at the point where it always had to be ‘dressed up.’

When we adopted Fidget, she had soft stool issues, and I read that Dobies have sensitive stomachs and should switch foods slowly. In addition, she has spay incontinence, so I am now trying to get her on a grain-free diet.

We’d like both dogs to eat the same food. We need the food to be at least 4 stars, if possible, and AFFORDABLE (10-12 cents an ounce, preferably). We prefer to feed just kibble, if possible. No raw. We’re lazy people, but want healthy dogs (and are trying to make that NOT a contradiction).

We’ve tried Victor and Dave’s grain free kibbles, so far, but Bennie won’t eat ’em. (Fidget, fortunately, will eat ANYTHING … and EVERYTHING.)

Any suggestions for a PARTICULARLY TASTY, grain-free, healthy, affordable kibble, that I could try with Bennie? We want something he’ll LOVE the taste of.

I have tried (when the husband was away, and Bennie seems to eat with fewer incentives) samples of Nutrisource and Hi-Tek but, if anyone has any suggestions for anything CHEAPER than that but still healthy, please let me know.

Thanks

[InkedMarie]

Raw, canned and dehydrated is better for dogs. Dry food can leave dogs chronically dehydrated.

[DieselJunki]

Sometimes you can educate your vet. Bring in paperwork give list of sources ect. and hope they are open to learning something new that they probably didn’t teach them in school.
They could have been brain washed so to speak like many other people out there. Sometimes they just need a push in the right direction. I talked to my vet about feeding raw, at first she was not really all that happy with my decision but I explained myself and some of the little knowledge I knew of it. It helped let her know that I knew what I was doing (sort of haha) and had done my homework on it extensively before deciding to do it. I can’t say she is still a big fan of a raw diet but we have come to an understanding. I would still use her for ailments and shots and such.

Now there was one orthopedic vet that I actually got into a little bit of an argument with due to my kibble choice at that time. She to recommended all those cruddy brands. When I started talking to her about calcium levels due to him being a large breed dog it was like she was disgusted that I would even do such a thing. I began to explain myself and the research I had done and I could tell I wasn’t getting threw to her and she wasn’t understanding me. She kept pushing and telling me I wasn’t doing good for my dog and it would hurt him in later years. I would never use that place ever again due to her reaction.

All in all, don’t believe everything your vet tells you, do your own research before saying yes to things like unneeded shots and such.

[DieselJunki]

Oh wow. I really hope they get better quickly. So sorry you and your babies have to go threw this. Is it possible to find a holistic veterinarian around your area? I find them much more knowledgeable and less likely to throw you some pills that you really don’t need. Maybe they can answer what went wrong with the trying of the raw diet. It really is trial and error sometimes especially with dogs that might have other conditions. I know it was difficult to find a food that didn’t give my dog diarrhea or super soft poops until I switched to Honest Kitchen. It has been smooth sailing since then and I do plan to switch to raw sometime next month for sure. Good luck!

[DieselJunki]

So I am going to be switching to completely raw here shortly as I just bought a chest freezer (best investment ever). I was wondering if you all could help me out in figuring out what kind of muscle meat/organ meat/bone I would need to get for a whole month if I were to order it from a site such as MPC.

My dog Moose is around 7 months old and I usually feed him about 1.5 cups of honest kitchen 2 times a day. Right at the moment he is being boarded for a couple weeks and when I get him back I’ll double check his weight but I’d say he weighs 50lbs or so right now.

Now if I were to feed 3% of his body weight I would be feeding him 1.5lbs of food a day. If I were to say I needed a months worth of food (30 days) I would need 45lbs of food . That doesn’t really split it up between what I would need for organ meats, muscle meats, and bone. I am not so good with math and was hoping you guys could walk me through the process of figuring this all out! I would very much appreciate it so later on I can do the calculations myself.

From reading around it seems if your not feeding a whole prey model diet you should go with food consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat, 5% of which must be liver over the course of 1 week. But from my understanding you don’t have to feed it balanced everyday. You could feed straight muscle meat one day and then maybe a few turkey necks or something (I understand they are mostly bone) another and then give them some liver or other organ meats. So long as by the end of the week you met the 80/10/10 percentages.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Sorry to hear Shadow’s having a bout of pancreatitis. 🙁

As Nectarmom stated, pancreatitis is brought on by fat – it wouldn’t have to do with whether or not the food is raw, although raw diets do tend to be higher in fat than kibble. Some dogs can handle very high levels of fat with no issues (i.e. my dogs) and others are very sensitive to fat. Some breeds are also predisposed to pancreatitis and don’t tolerate high levels of fat in their diet. Rancid fats can also cause pancreatitis – this wouldn’t be an issue with the fat on fresh meat but kibbles can go rancid as can fish oil (if you’re supplementing with fish oil it should be refrigerated and used within a couple months of opening). As Patty stated, raw diets are only required to state a minimum level of fat – often the actual level is much higher. So be careful if you go with pre-made. The best way to determine the true fat level is to look at the calorie content (foods with over 50 calories per oz. are likely higher in fat) and/or ask the company for a batch analysis in which they provide you with an actual nutrient analysis run on a batch of food (this can give you a good idea of what the fat levels are actually in the food but can also be inaccurate given that it’s possible to have great variance between batches). Personally, I think your best bet (if you want to continue with raw) would be to use a pre-mix and add lean meat from the grocery store. Human foods are required to list the actual fat levels (not a minimum) so you know what you’re getting. I’d stick with at least 95% lean and supplement with minimal levels of omega 3’s (he’ll still need EFA’s, but don’t over supplement).

[weimlove]

Oh my goodness I am so sorry to hear that! It is so frustrating when you spend so much time researching a raw diet and preparing their meals, for it not to work out. Shadow stayed at the holistic vet lastnight. I picked him up this morning and when we got home he had liquid diareahha and still wouldn’t eat. All they did at the holistic vet was give him fluids. Since he was still worse I took him to a normal vet that’s close to my house. She says he may have a touch of pancreatitis but that she thinks we caught it in time. She gave him some antibiotics and an injection to calm his tummy. I went to the store and bought some wellness chicken and rice canned food. Thankfully he ate almost a whole can! The vet I went to was very kind and understanding. I think for now I’m going to use canned food until his appetite comes back all the way. When it does, I’m thinking about just going to a pre made raw such as primal. I want to feed shadow the best, but I don’t want to risk his health.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Weimlove. Pancreatitis is brought on by high fatty diet. We maybe switching just our shihtzu back to kibble due to she was only given 1 teaspoon of raw when we got back home and I ended up rushing her back up there, she blew out basically nothing but watery diahrrea and was trying to throw up the teaspoon that I fed her so it is not looking good for Raw for her in which I really hate it. Shes going back in tomorrow for more test and I guess they enjoy trying to see how many times they can stick her to get blood 🙁 Poor baby, Vet said once again no food for 24hrs….shes going to starve to death and I feel so bad while everyone else is eating and shes sitting there licking in the air……….. 🙁

Weimlove, how is your baby today?

[pugmomsandy]

If she needs help being regular then keep on using it if it was working for you until you can get the daily dose adjusted. I haven’t looked at any “colon cleanse” products but a reduced daily dose might help keep things moving so she doesn’t go 3 days in between stools. Works for me! I would think olive oil is better than castor oil or mineral oil! And I love psyllium. Buy it in bulk! Whenever we have GI issues here we go to a “simple” diet and psyllium. I have chia seed to. Tripe is suppose to be a “perfect food” yet it is very plain and simple. Even being a raw feeder I will make homemade “cow-dom”. I’m pretty sure that’s not how it is spelled since it’s Thai but it is basically rice porridge with meat/eggs/greens, anything I want to put in it and feed it to my 14 yr old foster with his kibble. I just got him at age 14 so I didn’t want to bomb his system with raw! I dog-sat him in December and he came with a bag of W/D which I begrudgingly fed him since he was not my foster. I work with what I have and feel comfortable with and make adjustments over time.

[pugmomsandy]

Is she getting Great Mender and olive oil? If so, maybe a reduction in those and some psyllium for bulk. If the first two are making her go, then at least the fiber will make it solid. Can’t say I’ve had any of those problems with all my fosters. I did get a 8 or 9 year old foster who I put on a canned food+raw diet with some psyllium and no problems. He needed to lose weight. Also try giving her less variety until she normalizes somewhat. Can you just feed her tripe for now till she settles?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well I’m going to have to disagree with whoever is saying she doesn’t need calcium. It’s not about if she’s getting any calcium or how much she’s getting even – it’s about the calcium being in balance with the phosphorus. Organ meat is extremely high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Muscle meat is high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Bone contains a little phosphorus but is very high in calcium (~2:1 ratio). Dogs must have their diet provide calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio (with about 1.2:1 being ideal). The grinds from Hare Today are whole prey so the calcium to phosphorus ratio is in balance – if you add more boneless to that you risk throwing off the ratio. You could probably be safe adding up to 20% of the meal boneless but not feeding 6 oz. boneless and 1 oz. bone in. To do the math – the grinds from Hare Today are approximately 80% muscle meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. 6 oz. of boneless meats + 1 oz. bone-in grind would result in a total of 6.9 oz. boneless meat/organs and only 0.10 oz. bone. This equates to a diet that is only 1.5% bone – a raw diet should be 10% bone. Balancing the C:P ratio is raw feeding 101 and the most important step – I can’t help but question the knowledge of someone advising you to feed predominantly muscle meat and not supplement with calcium.

[spoonyspork]

Okie, I’m sorry this is so long, but want to give as much background as possible for the best choice in foods.

I have an older dog — 14 years old, lab/plott hound mix, currently approximately 60 lbs and looks a little on the lean side to my liking.

We’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild (can never remember the exact one as I just grab it based on color — it has ducks on the bag?) dry since adopting him 5 years ago, and he has thrived pretty good on that. When we first got him from the shelter he had bald patches all over (almost completely bald on the bottom half) caused by a severe allergy to fleas, and was also rather overweight. Within a few weeks he was lean and shiny with a much higher energy level, etc.

Well over the last year he has begun to show his age. He’s been developing benign tumors all over (each is kept checked by the vet), and his hair has again been falling out. He also constantly has a flea problem despite lots of flea treatments and keeping both inside and outside as flea free as possible (we have no carpet in the house and his bed is switched and washed weekly). In spite of this, he still has a very high energy level and good weight though he’d been starting to look a little TOO lean despite upping the amount of food.

But last week I thought sure I was about to lose him. Long story short, he was diagnosed with vestibular disease and sent home, told it usually improves on its own and the cause is usually never figured out unless it’s tumors on the nerves or an obvious ear infection, but if he improves it’s likely not tumors. He did improve, but the next day his appetite was gone and later started squirting diarrhea that was more blood than stool (hours prior it was normal stool)… so straight back to the vet where he was additionally found to have a GI infection, and put on antibiotics and a wet canned food (Hills I/D). Additionally, the vet suggested I put him on a combo flea/worm pill since topical stuff doesn’t seem to be helping him anymore. His stool sample didn’t show worms or larvae/eggs. I said no to the pill as I wanted to research it first (which I’m pretty sure will be a ‘no’ after reading the side effects! Even just the common side effects were terrible)

It’s been a week now, and he’s slooooowly gained back an appetite as well as near normal mobility (slight head-tilt as I was told would probably happen as well as random missteps or falling over if he tries to take off at a run too quickly)… and now will not *touch* his dry food beyond a couple bites. He doesn’t seem to be being picky about it (and really isn’t a picky dog at all as a rule) — he seems to have trouble actually eating it — after a few bites his head starts to tilt worse and he seems to lose focus and get dizzy, then lose interest. I do have to put his bowl somewhere off the floor as keeping his head down for the amount of time it takes to eat seems to make him dizzy again. His stools are almost normal again though he still seems very raw and sore while trying to ‘go’. I was considering getting more of the I/D from the vet as I thought surely they gave it to us based on it being something easy on his stomach… but reading the ingredients here I’m kind of surprised he didn’t get *worse* on it.

So now my actual point! He is out of the ‘food’ from the vet so this afternoon’s meal will have to be something different (don’t worry; he’ll eat *something* if I don’t get an answer for a while!). I have the looong list of ‘best wet foods’ and was thinking of just switching to taste of the wild wet formula, but I wanted to make sure that is the ‘best’ choice as far as cost-effectiveness as well as with an older dog with the background he has (fleas, skin condition, benign tumors, etc).

I will say I have tried some freeze-dried ‘raw’ diets in the past and my dogs just never seemed to do well with it, and the extra cost, mess, amount needed to feed our large dogs etc just didn’t seem worth it. I will also say I am now somewhat leery of taste of the wild in general, as I may be taking the other dog to the vet as she’s been having very loose stools the last few days too (no blood or pure liquid like his were, but we’re keeping an eye on her) and she just started being fed from the same freshly-opened bag he’d been eating from last week (she had been eating from the older bag while he’d been eating from the freshly opened bag. Trust me it makes sense — they get different amounts that are separated by meal so sometime one ends up eating from a different bag than the other for a couple days)

Okay, I think I’ve given as much info as possible, lol. Thanks for any help!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Sorry to hear you’re having these problems. I’ve never had an issue like this with any of my dogs, however I can tell you that if you’re feeding 6 oz. boneless per day and 1 oz. of bone-in that she’s
not getting enough bone and the calcium to phosphorus ratio is off. In a prey model raw diet bone (along with fur/feathers) acts as fiber – so while excessive amounts of bone can cause constipation, so can excessive amounts of muscle meat without an adequate fiber source. Possibly a GI detox or colon cleanse might help. Wysong used to sell a great supplement called Colex (definitely would have gotten her moving), but I’m checking their site now and unfortunately it appears they aren’t selling it anymore. Swanson has a GI Detox powder that looks okay/safe for dogs. It doesn’t look as good as Colex did but it might work – I haven’t used it. They have several other colon cleansers but some I’m not sure if all the ingredients are safe for dogs. I know he colex was safe for dogs and the Swanson GI Detox looks safe. Were her stools regular before she was on raw?

[pugmomsandy]

My foster dogs and mine have lost weight on grain free foods like Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Horizon Amicus, Wellness Core and Brothers Complete over the years and not the “diet” ones, just regular recipes. Recently my very obese foster lost 10 lbs on a grain free canned food/raw food combo diet – very low in carbs. My group only poops twice a day. Now they will poop during a walk or at the dog park just because they gotta leave one of theirs when they smell someone else’s and it’s usually not as formed because it’s usually not the time for them to go normally.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cyndi –

It would be fine to feed Fresh Pet for one meal and a chicken leg quarter for another for a week or two. Once she becomes accustomed to the raw you can start experimenting with things other than leg quarters.

[Cyndi]

Thanks again, everyone, for all the info. I’m starting to get overwhelmed again though, lol! It doesn’t take much. I posted a question a few posts back and from what I’ve read, no one seemed to give me a definitive answer on that particular question. I’ll post that part again…. (only because I want to be absolutely sure on what I’m feeding and don’t want to start off wrong…

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I’ll also post the ingredients of the Deli fresh/Freshpet that I plan on keeping her on, for a while anyways.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Eggs, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Brown Rice, Peas, Rice Bran, Dried Kelp, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Green Tea Extract.

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid.

Minerals:
Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

If I start her on chicken and use a chicken leg quarter or chicken back every day, is that too much bone? I think I may just be over thinking all this, and I apologize for all the questions, but I want to be sure, especially with keeping her on the Freshpet for one meal a day for a while…

Thanks again for all your help everyone! I sincerely do appreciate all your help. I’ve been printing out all your replies and referring back to it all.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi honeybeesmom –

I just ordered a 1 lb. bag of the Spot’s Dinner Mix. I it was manufactured last month – very fresh. It arrived 2 days after I ordered it with standard shipping. I’ve emailed Steve a few times and aleays got prompt responses. I love his book “Unlocking The Canine Ancestral Diet” (I consider it to be the best raw feeding resource available). I have not used the mix yet but I’m sure I’ll be nothing short of impressed. I wouldn’t not try it just because one person is saying they had a bad experience – look at the review section, if you wrote off every food someone conplained about you’d be left with no options. I’d try it and decide for yourself. Had I read this post prior to placing my order, I still would have ordered it.

[soho]

I would like to share my experience with see spot live longer dinner mixes.

I ordered 135 of the single serving packets on 6-5-2012. I wanted them for my own dogs and for my friends to sell at their dog wash. The packets are VERY hard to open. There is no notch in the packet so you have to cut it open. The powder inside falls out when you cut them open and it is very messy. My friends tried everything possible to sell them but people just did not want to deal with the badly designed packets and the high price. They were offered at buy one get one half off and when they still did not sell they were offered at cost.

I wanted to try this supplement but it was a pain to use so I went with other supplements for my own dogs. I contacted Steve Brown on April 6th 2013 to see if he would swap any of the old packets for the newly redesigned 1 pound bags which are over 50% cheaper per serving. Steve Brown never even bothered to respond to my email. I had to email him twice before I finally received a reply from Chris Gelalich the general manager.

Mr Gelalich offered me one bag at no cost and said I waited too long to let them know there was a problem and that the packets were now expired. I checked and the packets were made in February of 2012. So they were already 4 months old when I received them. I find this pretty strange after Steve told me:

“Our website reviews some of the major features of See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes : fresh, lean, complete and balanced ancestral-type meals for dogs. The freshness is especially important, most commercial raw diets are not fresh, and many may exceed USDA standards for “quality:” ground meat is only considered to be quality if it’s consumed less than 3 months since manufacturing.”

Today I sent my final email to Steve as it is more than 2 weeks since I first emailed him and I have sent 3 emails to him in the last week with no reply.

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

I’m glad you have made this decision. It will make a big difference–especially with dental health. All the raw feeders on here are giving great advice. 🙂

Here’s a little advice I will give from observing my own dogs. When they got ALL raw, which normally consisted of a boneless meal and a bone-in meal (a leg quarter, a leg, a thigh, wing) each day, and even 2 bony meals per day, they were fine. When I started experimenting w/using dog food for one meal, and a piece of bone-in chicken for the next, I would notice their poops were getting too hard/dry at times. I know dog foods include ingredients to help firm up stools. SO…since chicken backs are SO bony, I don’t think I would feed those every single day if I were you. They are GREAT to start with, but I really think once your dog gets used to them that first week, I personally would just buy leg quarters. My one dog is 50+ pounds and I still feed him drumsticks quite a bit. If you buy a package of quarters, you can just cut the legs off each quarter too. Sometimes THAT becomes my dogs’ entire meal for the day—the drumstick becomes the breakfast, the other part becomes the dinner. I feed whole leg quarters at times too–those are great for cleaning the teeth. I just prefer feeding 2x per day, so sometimes if that’s all I have thawed, it works best to split it up into 2 meals. Plus, I have to pay close attention to portion control for my dogs.

Just keep an eye on things when you start. If stools get too firm, lay off the chicken backs for a day or two. Don’t let this scare you, as once you get going with it, it becomes very natural. I would stick with feeding only chicken for a couple weeks. People on the forum can help you along when the time comes. It’s all about how YOUR individual dog responds to this diet. Two of my dogs have NO problem with more frequent bone-in meals or even a couple days of just boneless meals. My other dog gets looser stools easily, and does better with more bone in his diet.

Good luck! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

Cyndi,

You can also find turkey backs at some grocery stores. Sprouts has them. Chicken heart and gizzards are also easy finds as is various livers. Only feed 5 % liver though.

[InkedMarie]

Cyndi, you mentioned “easy”. Thats me, too! I feed grinds from HareToday; my husband isn’t into feeding whole meats but he’s fine with ground. They have a huge variety and for me, it cheaper than feeding a pre made raw, depending on what I get. If I buy an exotic, that may drive the cost up a bit.

[Cyndi]

You guys have been such a big help, thank you!

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I AM going to do this! Next time I get paid, I am going to the butcher shop by me and buying the chicken backs and we’re gonna do this! I am determined! The only thing is I’ll probably be here asking another million and one questions…….so be prepared, lol! Thanks guys!!

[pugmomsandy]

Yikes! You can also get there by going straight to dogforums(dot)com and searching for “raw feeding pictures thread”.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

Please don’t blame yourself for the death of your previous dog. We’ve all been there and made poor nutritional choices for our animals. If you didn’t know better than it wasn’t your fault. My current dogs eat a homemade raw diet – I used to feed Beneful, Dad’s, Alpo, etc. It’s a learning experience!

I completely understand your apprehension about beginning a raw diet. I was the same way when I started. I was so concerned about percentages and how many ounces of this and how many ounces of that and worried that they were missing something or getting too much of something else. You’ll get comfortable with it, trust me. I personally started with “semi-homemade” – I’d use pre-mixes to which all I had to add was meat or buy meat/organ/bone grinds to which all I had to add was veggies and supplements. I bought Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” and finally got the confidence to try one of his recipes and make my first meal completely from scratch. I now formulate my dogs’ menus all on my own and they’re complete and balanced. Just start slow!

[theBCnut]

Sandy, I clicked on that link and it tried to give me a virus or something. I got one of those pop-up saying my computers security detected a virus, but it listed the wrong program. It wouldn’t let me exit, so I had to force it to end task. I ran my own scan and came up clean.

[Cyndi]

Thank you BRR3, very much! & Thanks pugmomsandy, I will check that out….. My biggest fear, and the reason I haven’t started my dog on all raw yet, is because I’m so afraid I won’t be able to give her or find the right variety she needs. The more I read up on what people feed their dogs the more confusing it is. I’m the type of person who likes easy. Yes, call me lazy, I admit I am, but it sure doesn’t sound easy to find all the things raw feeders feed their dogs. I have grocery stores by me, only one local butcher though. I haven’t checked with these places yet to find out costs and what’s available. I know it would get easier over time, once I get the hang of it, but I guess I’m just scared, because it’s up to me to make sure I’m giving her the right variety. I blame myself for the death of my other dog, because I had to put him down because I didn’t want to put him thru a bunch of tests and stuff at his age. The vet didn’t know what it was that went wrong with him and I believe it was a combination of feeding crappy commercial dog food, topical flea stuff and/or vaccinations.

I’ve looked up sample menus of raw feeders, hoping I guess to find that “one” that makes me say, ‘Yeah, THAT I can do’ but there is just so many things that people feed and to me it’s just overwhelming. I’m just afraid that I would give my Bailey the wrong things or not enough of the right things or whatever.

Thank you all for all your help. I guess it’s just up to me when I feel comfortable enough to make the switch. I really do appreciate all the help. I’ll just keep reading and researching and eventually, hopefully, I’ll just do it…

[pugmomsandy]

Here is a thread just for raw feeding:

http://www.dogforums.com/dog-food-forum/112667-raw-feeding-picture-thread-7.html

[Anonymous]

Hi Cyndi,

Prey Model Raw is by far the easiest and cheapest way to feed raw, in my opinion. You can spend as much or as little as you want. Since you only have one dog, it isn’t necessary to have to stock up and freeze meat if you don’t have the room or money. Your 50 lb. dog will probably need only need 1 to 1 1/2 lbs. of food per day. Buy a pack or bag of chicken leg quarters, and work around that, filling in the rest of the diet with different proteins/organs that are on sale/clearance. This does not have to be complicated, and it’s all about “balance over time”.

Of course you will want/need to feed variety, but I find that this is very affordable when you make chicken the staple. If you can get some chicken backs at the meat market, start with those for at least a couple days. They are soft/bony and recommended to start with. If you can’t find them, you can use leg quarters. You are fine feeding just chicken for a couple weeks. You will however need to start alternating in some boneless meals (every other meal if you feed 2x per day or every other day) or your dog may get too constipated from the bone. All 3 of my dogs are different, and one dog can handle more bone. You learn these things as you go along, and you adjust the diet accordingly.

Once your dog adjusts to chicken, you move onto something like turkey for a couple weeks. You can alternative it w/meals of chicken. Then you will move on to pork, beef, etc.

Heart is very rich yet very nutritious, and it’s considered muscle meat, not organ meat. It can be a staple as well for most of your boneless meals. You are fine feeding a meal of canned sardines/mackerel instead of raw once a week or so.

You don’t even need to worry about organ meat for at least 2 months. When you DO introduce it, go very slow or your dog will most likely end up with diarrhea. I’d even personally start out feeding small amounts of it along with a bony meal. Only 5 to 10% of the diet needs to be organ meat. You need to feed liver, and it’s best you feed another organ as well. If you feed chicken backs at first, your dogs will get some of the little organs that are attached early on–I never removed any of them and all was fine.

Here are foods I feed/have fed: Chicken – Frames, Backs, Leg Quarters, Legs, Breasts, Necks (to my smallest dog), Thighs, Hearts/Gizzards, Feet, Liver. Turkey: Necks, ground. Pork: Butt, Chops, Roast, Heart, Kidney, Liver, Pigs Feet. Beef: Heart, Ground, Steaks, Roast, Liver. Duck: Heads, Feet, Wings. Fish: Various frozen (thawed) and canned sardines/mackerel.

I recommend you read WORK WONDERS by Tom Lonsdale. It’s a wonderful book and easy to read/understand. Even he says that many peoples’ dogs do fine on primarily all chicken. I know my dogs get a lot of it.

Also, check out: http://www.preymodelraw.com. This site helped me learn how to feed properly.

If you’re not comfortable, you could always do a partial raw diet. I have actually been doing that for almost a couple months because I am having a graduation party soon and desperately need my freezer space for that food. So, I have been feeding part PMR and part kibble to 2 of my dogs, and PMR/canned to my other dog. Once the kibble is gone and the party is over, I would like to go back to mostly PMR, but would like to incorporate some days of canned food. Maybe you could do that OR feed raw along w/the FreshPet.

Hope this helps. Again, these are my opinions and what has worked for my dogs.

[Cyndi]

Ok, thank you both, very much!

[InkedMarie]

I agree with HDM.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

If you can afford it, I would eliminate the kibble. Deli Fresh is much more species-appropriate than kibble (even though NV is a high quality kibble). If you check out this website Dr. Goldstein ranks foods in terms of healthiest to least healthiest: drmarty.com/feeding.htm

[Cyndi]

Hi again! I have another question, for anyone that feels like answering. I currently feed my dog Nature’s Variety Instinct grain free kibble in the morning. In the evening I feed her Deli Fresh by Fresh pet. My question is if I were to switch one of her meals for either Primal Raw frozen or Nature’s Variety Raw, which one do you think I should I eliminate? I still don’t feel comfortable switching to all raw, so I figured atleast this is a start. Thanks in advance.

[Cyndi]

Ok, thank you, once again, for all your help!

[BlueDog]

This is a question kind of along the lines of one posted a few weeks ago about shark. My fiance and friends brought home a soft shell turtle today from the river. I’m wondering if the liver, kidneys, etc would be ok to feed in a raw diet. Also, it was a female, and had several large developing eggs inside. If I freeze it for a while (month or two) do you think it would be safe?

[theBCnut]

I use it in rotation, it is heavy with flax seed, so I don’t like the idea of using it all the time. When I use it, I use 9 lbs of ground meat(sometimes I use turkey and pork) and 1 lbs of organs. I add 4 0z. of apple cider vinegar. You can mix it without the eggs and then add eggs when you are ready to feed it if you want to leave the eggs raw. It doesn’t mix and store well with raw eggs.

[Cyndi]

Hey Pattyvaughn,

I was just looking at the DinOvite site, that you mentioned, and they have a recipe on there, with a video, for Homemade Dog food. What do you think about feeding just this as a primary diet? Would my dog be getting everything she needs in that diet? & I wondered why they used hard-boiled eggs and not raw eggs in that recipe. Can I get your thoughts on all this, and anyone else’s, if you don’t mind? Thanks in advance! 🙂

Oh, and what modifications would you make to make it better?

[Cyndi]

Ok, I will have to do a bit more research. Atleast the food I have her on now is much better than the crap she was on. Thank you for all your help, I really do appreciate it. This all just seems so overwhelming, but I so want to do the right thing for my baby. I am so glad I found this site and you are all so polite (compared to another forum where I more or less got yelled at for asking an off topic question). Thank you so much, again, for your help!

Have a great evening! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Including shipping they top $4 a pound for me. I use some Darwin’s, but not all. When I started feeding raw, I googled homemade dog food and found DinOvite. It was an easy way to get started. I used their Yeast Starvation Diet for a bit while I read up on feeding raw. It’s a very easy recipe and I still make it occassionally with some modifications. There are a few premixes and vitamin/mineral mixes that are made to be mixed with either boneless meat or grinds that are also an easy way to get started. These are more expensive than doing it all from scratch, but less expensive than premade balanced raw diets.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Patty. I just got done reading some of the threads about Darwin’s raw food. Do you think this would be a good place for me to start? I haven’t researched the cost for them yet, but Darwins sounds like a good alternative for me instead of me trying to figure out on my own if I’m feeding the rights raw foods in the right quantities. Are they really expensive, do you know?

[theBCnut]

I started using raw as a topper and had no problems, but it could be a case of some dogs having problems and some not. When my dogs were eating enough raw to make a meal of it, I switched to feeding raw for breakfast and kibble for dinner. Now, I can feed all raw, raw and kibble, just kibble, whatever. It is all what works for you and your dog.

[Cyndi]

Thanks so much everyone for all the feedback! I sincerely appreciate it all. One more question, for now anyways, lol! I have read conflicting things on starting to feed raw. I have read to fast your dog for 24 hours & then just start the raw diet, starting with one meat source at a time to get them used to it, but I have also read to introduce raw food slowly, giving them some raw food mixed with their kibble each day. Which is the right way, or is there a right way to make the switch?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

The general feeding recommendations for raw are as follows (amounts are in % of the dog’s body weight):

1.5% – weight loss
2.0% – inactive
2.5% – adult maintenance for average activity level
3.0% – slight weight gain or active dogs
3.5% – significant weight gain or very active dogs
4.0% – puppies (8 weeks – 1 year) or working dogs
4.5%-8.0% – puppies (4-8 weeks), pregnant/lactating females or working dogs

This is a good guide, but all dogs are different so just monitor your dog’s body condition and adjust portion sizes accordingly. My 9 month old female eats about 3.5% of her weight, my 2 year old female eats about 4% of her body weight and my 8 year old male eats about 3% of his weight.

[theBCnut]

My two very active 40 lbs dogs eat about a pound a day, one slightly more than the other. The rule of thumb is 2-3% of their body weight.

When turkey is on sale at Thanksgiving, I get 2 or 3 extras.

[BlueDog]

Yay Cyndi! I have also recently (as in yesterday) started researching a raw food diet for my 50lb ACD. I found a page (and forgot to bookmark) that helped me decide that with his weight range, I should give him about 1000 Cal/day, or about 1.25lb each day of food, including boneless meat and raw meaty bones. HDM’s suggestions are great, and I went today all around town to local butchers, grocery stores, and even a vet that has knowledge and that supports raw food diets. I made a list of what each place had to offer based on who had better prices on things, especially harder to find things like beef hearts and turkey necks. Ended up buying 3 fryer chickens that were on sale for $0.77 a lb, and some other stuff on sale. My plan is to establish my budget that I can devote to this, price everything up, and start saving. And also to buy meat when I see it for a great price. We are lucky in my area to have access to a local butcher, several grocery stores (HEB has had the best selection of doggy type meats for decent prices) and also a natural/organic food store that has a ton of the great supplements that I have seen mentioned. Check the “Transitioning to raw” thread on this section of the forum, it has a lot of great info and I think a sample recipe from HDM. There’s also a thread “Suggested raw dog food menus” that has several recipes that HDM and others have posted.

[Cyndi]

Oh, a totally unrelated question…… How do I go about putting a picture up for my profile pic? I tried to figure it out earlier, but didnt have any luck.

[Cyndi]

Thank you Pattyvaughn, I will check that out. & thank you also, Hound dog mom, all that is very good to know. Ive just been getting so overwhelmed by researching & reading all the different things that people say they feed their dogs. I really dog want to feed my dog raw, but it all just sounds too expensive to do, but if/when I do make the switch, I need to make sure I can afford it.

Any idea how much, I guess in pounds, that I will need to feed. I feed Bailey twice a day and she currently weighs 50lbs. & I’d like to keep her at that weight preferably.

Thank you both, so much, for your help!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a raw diet for your dog!

Owning three large and active dogs, I can sympathize with you on wanting to keep things cheap. My tips for keeping raw feeding budget friendly would be:

1. Rely on chicken, turkey, pork and beef as your primary protein sources – they’re the cheapest per pound.

2. Rather than feeding boneless meat and supplementing with calcium, incorporate raw meaty bones (chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.) as the calcium source. RMB’s are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat.

3. Rely on hearts and gizzards as your primary source of muscle meat in the diet. While boneless skinless chicken breast might be more appealing to a person, there’s no reason dogs need to eat these expensive cuts of meat.

4. Add things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt or kefir to stretch the meal a bit with some cheap but high quality animal-based protein.

5. Avoid pre-ground meats, they’re generally more expensive. Feed meat in chunks or dice it yourself.

6. Buy bulk – try to locate a wholesale supplier. Shop the manager’s specials at the grocery store.

7. Use supplements made for humans rather than for dogs, believe it or not they’re generally much cheaper. I order from Swanson Vitamins (cheap, high quality, big variety).

[theBCnut]

Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” is an EXCELLENT place to start.