[Shawna]

Hi Lagotto,

We noticed (at the breeders) that she had excessive drinking and urination, as compared to her 5 siblings, when she was about 6 weeks old. She came to live with me when she was 9 weeks old. At about 4 weeks old she started failing to thrive — because she had a collapsing trachea and couldn’t get enough milk from her mommy. So the breeder put her on raw goat milk and egg whites, syringe fed every 2 to 4 hours, til she could eat on her own. She was weaned onto raw food — mainly hamburger, eggs, raw milk etc.

When she came to me I was making a home made raw diet for my current dogs and she went on that same diet. At her vet visit I told her holistic vet she urinated/drank a lot but her vet poo poo’d my concern and said puppies drink and therefore urinate more. She has bright eyes, she’s very smart, good coat quality etc. She’s a healthy puppy… In looking back I’m actually thankful that happened. Audrey continued on the homemade raw diet til her one year checkup where her bloodwork showed high bun and creatinine. I started tweaking her diet and would take her in every three months for additional bloodwork to see what the tweaking was doing. Turns out, the diet I had been feeding her all along was the best for her with one exception. To the diet I added a “prebiotic” and probiotics to help lower her BUN. Works like a charm..

Audrey continued on the homemade diet for several years but then I got too busy to keep up with homemade exclusively so I started incorporating commercial raw diets — Bravo as an example. Became busier yet and moved exclusively to commercial raw — Bravo, Darwins, Answers (recently started) and premixes like The Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve’s Premix with raw meats.. Audrey turned 7 years old the end of June and is still going strong. I have NOT lowered her protein. I have not lowered her phosphorus or made any other changes than adding prebiotic/probiotic and supplements. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense probiotic and Fiber35’s Sprinkle Fiber as the prebiotic. A really good prebiotic, made specifically for dogs, can be found on Dr. Mercola’s website under the “Pets” link and then under “Products”.

I would NOT regularly feed her kibble if I was paid to do so. In my opinion, kibble will cause a much earlier death in a kidney disease dog.. Kibble is a POOR QUALITY food for kd dogs/cats—even the best kibbles on the market… At the very least, feed a canned diet. If you can, feed raw or lightly cooked. I also don’t feed Audrey any grains. IF you are going to feed grains it needs to be either sushi rice (aka glutinous rice) or cream of wheat (or farina). These two grains are low phosphorus. All other grains have higher phosphorus and don’t add anything to the diet that can’t be found in a more species appropriate food.

You also want to feed higher fat foods — ditch the lean ground beef.. Feed the highest fat foods you can get (unless she is showing signs of pancreatitis). Fat adds calories without phosphorus—adding organic coconut oil is a good idea too. Protein is NOT damaging to the kidneys and only needs to be reduced to prevent symptoms of uremia in the later stages of the disease — such as vomiting or depression. Audrey has NEVER to date ate low protein.

Let her have ALL the water she wants. Audrey used to sleep in the water bowl when it was empty — she was that obsessed with water and, I’m guessing, desperately trying to tell me she needed some. She started this, sleeping in water dish, at the breeders. I kept potty pads ALL over the house for her. I was lucky in that she used them. During the night I keep her in a 4 foot by 4 foot enclosure we made (for our foster puppies). It was made out of wood and plastic chicken wire. I had her water bowl, her kennel, a blanket outside the kennel and a potty pad with LOTS of newspapers under it — she would fill a potty pad to the point of leaking during the night. As she got older she was able to hold it. Since about three months of age she has slept with me in my bed at nights.

Darwins now has a kidney diet.. I haven’t seen it yet but I do think it is worth checking out. Urban Wolf has a premix designed for kd dogs that can be added to raw or home cooked meats. And I think Grandma Lucy’s has a lower phosphorus premix that is also suitable for dogs needing their phos lowered..

Also consider adding a whole food B and C vitamin to the diet. These two vitamins are “water soluble” and because of the excessive urination can become depleted if not supplemented. I use Standard Process Cataplex B and C. I also give Audrey a whole food multi as a precaution. I use Standard Process Catalyn. Standard Process also makes a whole food supplement specifically for dogs with kidney disease. It’s called Canine Renal Support — I HIGHLY recommend using it. I also give liver support also by Standard Process — Canine Hepatic Support. The liver can become overstressed in a kd dog.

I HIGHLY recommend only using reverse osmosis or distilled along with a mineral water like Evian. Mineral waters (only those lower in sodium) have shown some positive benefits to kidney patients.

Also try to eliminate as many chemical toxins from your house as possible. I was already living in a relatively toxin free environment but I had to eliminate my Swiffer mop, candles ets. These have chemicals in them that the kidneys have to filter — putting an extra strain on them OR adding to the blood poisoning when the kidneys can’t filter as well. DO NOT use flea/tick or heartworm meds on her. And DO NOT vaccinate her. Audrey has only had one set of shots (given by the breeder before I got her) and has NEVER had a rabies shot. She was diagnosed before getting the shot and I was able to get a lifelong exemption for her in my state.

As mentioned, Audrey turned 7 last month and is not on any medications (no phosphorus binders, no sub-q fluids etc) just the supplements.

I don’t use it but I know others that have had positive results with the herbal tinctures from Five Leaf Pharmacy. http://caninekidneyhealth.com/ I would NOT follow their diet though… 🙂 http://caninekidneyhealth.com/

I would also highly recommend reading the material on Mary Straus’ dog aware website. This is the site where I got most of my knowledge / as well as courage to continue feeding Audrey a high protein raw diet. She has some EXCELLENT info on the site — when to feed low protein, when to lower phosphorus and how much (phosphorus is an essential mineral – lowering it too much too early can have unintended consequences), which foods are lower in phosphorus etc. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

Your puppy can still have a fantastic quality of life.. Learn as much as you can, stay positive and enjoy her fully!!!!!

If you ever want to chat offsite, I can be reached at shawnadfaemail @ yahoo. com (take out the spaces–they are included here to prevent robot spammers from sending me junk mail).. 🙂

[weimlove]

There is a local pet store that will order it for me, which makes shipping free! I was thinking about going with something like primal, but it is SO expensive!! I am giving raw another chance, but I’m just going to feed blue ridge plus added veggies and calcium and rmbs a few times a week for their teeth. For me, feeding blue ridge is so much easier than buying whole chickens, large peices, etc. I made my first batch yesterday and shadow and sunny (my 3 month old vizsla devoured it!) they were both so bored with kibble, and their poop was so on and off…just after one meal of raw last night they both had excellent poops. Sorry for all the poop talk! Lol. But I’m hoping that this will work out, because it’s pretty convenient and I’m paying the same price per month if I were to feed a high quality kibble

[JenRose]

My adopted 5 year old Lab was dx with megaesophagus in 2011. She generally does well with a strict management plan but we have had our ups and downs with this frustrating disease! She is currently eating Newman’s Own Organic Beef canned food (625 kcal/can) rolled into meatballs and fed while she is sitting upright in a Bailey Chair. She gets 1 can 2x per day. She cannot tolerate a lot of bulk and was found to have gastroparesis in addition to the ME during an endoscope in April of this year. I feel like it may have been partially due to the high fat diet (lots of coconut milk) I had her on. I have since cut as much fat as possible and she gets metaclopramide (Reglan), probiotics and digestive enzymes to help speed up digestion.

I am interested in the pre-made raw diets, especially Stella and Chewy’s, Primal and Instinct Raw. The Instinct seems to have the highest calorie content (520 kcal/8 oz patty) but I know they have had recalls in the past. The most calories in the least amount of food seems to be best for her.

Any other ME dog owners feed raw? Or any experience in general with these brands? Once thawed, would they roll up nicely into meatballs?

[SandyandMila]

HDM – in your recipes when you feed green tripe, do you feed Hare Today with spleen or do you purchase it from somewhere else? Instead of feeding beef do you sometimes rotate in venison, bison, or buffalo? And when you feed poultry do you sometime rotate in duck, pheasant, or quail? Does chicken and turkey have more nutrients than the others I listed? I’m very new to feeding raw (just started this past week with pre-made NV and now Primal) but would like to feed one premade for one meal and homemade raw for the other meal. Mila is loving it so far, like I knew she would. 🙂 The amount you feed in your recipes is for your 3, I would be feeding my one 1/3 of that, right? Is Urban Wolf pre-mix what you recommend over HK, GL, Sojos etc.? When you feed eggs, that’s the whole egg correct? Are your dogs active, do you feed based on that? Mila is about normal in activity, but plan to do more long walks/runs with her and bring her to the dog park again this week after she has her staples taken out tomorrow. Sorry for all the questions, I’m sure I’ll have a lot more. lol I just want to be proactive and have knowledge of what I’m doing before I start.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi MsDad –

Congrats on the new pup and very good decision on going raw. I have two bloodhounds that are raw fed. I make homemade raw and fed 25% of the diet as green tripe until 8 months old to keep calcium levels low, but in balance with the phosphorus. Green tripe has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%). If you’re going the commercial route the formulas I know to have acceptable calcium levels are: Aunt Jeni’s (Turkey), BARF (Beef, Chicken, Lamb), Darwin’s (Beef), K9 Kraving (Beef, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Duck), Primal (Beef, Duck, Lamb, Quail, Turkey/Sardine, Venison), Stella & Chewy’s (Beef), Vital Essentials (Fish, Beef). If you can get raw tripe (I order mine from My Pet Carnivore and Hare Today) and wanted to occasionally use a formula higher in calcium you could mix it with tripe.

[MsDad]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and am a firm believer in raw diets. I will be getting a goldendoodle puppy in October who will ultimately be trained to be my service dog. So obviously I want to give him every advantage possible. So far, the best food I’ve found is Primal Rabbit Formula but I wonder if the calcium content is high enough or just right. Would love to hear any/all opinions.

Eddie

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Thank you for all your help. I have one other question. I have access to the commercial frozen raw foods (I work in a small pet food store): Bravo, Primal, Stella and Chewies, etc. But, I noticed there are no calcium levels listed on the bag. Do you know if any of the freeze dries or raw frozen food have the appropriate calcium levels for large breed puppies?

[SandyandMila]

The Primal website also shows in a video that u can thaw the portion by putting the bag in a big bowl filled with cool water for about 30 mins, so I might try that. It’ll be her first one so she’ll be a little hesitant at first. I hope she enjoys it. 🙂 I love the videos of Gertie eating her meaty bones, maybe I’ll post a pic. Thanks for your help.

[marmarx89]

I’ve been wanting to start my Louie on a raw diet for awhile, he has been on kibble and his stools have always been soft and I just didn’t feel like he was getting the best nutrition possible. I’ve been reading so much on feeding raw and all the benefits and I’m so excited to start it with him. I originally was going to feed commercial frozen raw, I bought a bag of the Primal Venison nuggets, but with his size (58.5lbs) he would go through 3 bags a week of that stuff ($90/week). So I started researching the Raw Prey Model and that seemed more feasible. Ive just started shopping around for everything, but I had a couple of questions I was hoping to run by you guys. I think I may have spent a little too much time creeping on here already, I feel like I already know everyone and their dogs haha. Anyway, I was wondering first how long you freeze your meats when you buy them in the store. I read that for the pork it has to be for at least 2 weeks but what about other meats? Also, in terms of adding the vitamins and supplements is that a necessity or just depends on what you like to feed? Im thinking of including some vegetables to his diet, do they have to be cooked first and pureed? or are raw vegetables allowed. Finally, the addition of vitamins/minerals that some people include in their diets are those something that I should definitely be including because of this type of diet or its just more a personal preference type of thing. Thanks in advance for any answers.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I personally don’t feel HPP is as good as non-HPP raw but it’s definitely better than kibble. Any low fat HPP raw would be worth a try if your brother is unwilling to feed non-HPP raw. Primal does have several varieties that are low in fat – I agree that S&C is probably too high in fat for a dog recovering from pancreatitis. The Honest Kitchen also has a formula called “Zeal” which is low in fat and would make a good “raw alternative” – it’s a dehydrated, human-grade food food and when you add water it re-hydrates to a stew-like consistency.

[momtopoms]

I have convinced my brother to change his dogs diet and I am looking for suggestions.
He has a 5 yo Eskie that has been on RC his whole life. He started having sezuires and is on meds for that and he has also had one bout of pancreatitis. They don’t have time to do homemade and have a one year old daughter. I do homemade and commercial raw with mine but I have the time and have no children. I know there is some controversies about HPP but would that be best for his situation? I was going to send him some Primal to try. I figured Stella and Chewys would be too high in fat for him due to the pancreatitis. Thanks.

[SusanandEcho]

I have a 12 year old shep/husk mix who has who has arthritis in her elbows. I believe the word the vet used is “horrendous” <spelling>. Anyway, I switched to Orijen Senior about 4 months ago, mainly based on the amount of glucosamine and chondroitin it has. I wish it had more protein, but I also mix in some Primal Freeze Dried or frozen raw with her kibble. She also gets a gluc/chon suppliment called Prudence Hip and Joint (High Potency) and Salmon Oil.
We also had great success with accupuncture, but unfortunately my current income no longer supports that. Exercise is key. We may not be able to do the 10-15 mile hikes we used to, but I don’t let a day go by without a meander through the park.

[SusanandEcho]

I recently started using Dog Rocks. Not something I would normally buy, but I work in a pet store and had heard a lot of positive feedback. They are literally rocks that you put in their water dish.
This spring the area of lawn she (my dog, Echo) was going on was pretty much dead. I started with raking off the dead grass and planting new, and not allowing her to go there while it was growing. I’ve been using the dog rocks for about three weeks now. She has gone on the new lawn just a few times, but so far so good. Here is their website http://dogrocks.org/. They do say that a raw diet or diet high in protein will hinder the productivity of the dog rocks, so it may not work for you. I feed Echo Orijen Senior with a little Primal Freeze Dried mixed in, so she is on a higher protein diet (compared to most kibble). Hope this helps.

[SandyandMila]

Awesome, thanks! If I use sardines as a topper can I freeze the leftovers? Would I still need to supplement with krill if she has sardines with her meal? Mila’s only had primal freeze dried turkey and sardines. Does sardines go well with other proteins other than turkey?

[carolsch]

Thank you very much. Based on the standard of less than 3.5g/1000kcal of calcium, I have added Darwin’s beef raw frozen food to my Rottweiler puppy’s diet. She’s also eating Primal’s Duck (1.22% Ca DMB), lamb (1.28 % Ca DMB), and Venison (1% Ca DMB). I’ve looked at several other varieties from different brand of raw frozen but haven’t found anything else with an acceptable calcium level. Any other suggested brands/varieties?

[beaglemom]

🙂 Thanks Cyndi & NectarMom… yea, mine have been having ground raw (Darwin’s, Primal, etc.) for about 2 months now and haven’t had any trouble with it. I know there’s ground bone in that but thought maybe the RMBs might have sat differently since the dogs probably swallowed bigger pieces of bone than they’d ever had before (but still small obviously, since they chewed them up). I was surprised it took over 12 hours to resurface such as it did. I’m keeping an eye on them but otherwise they’re great… I just hope it doesn’t mean that having a duck neck or whatever causes them to throw up each time. They clearly digested the meat well, just not all of the bone.

[NectarMom]

I would react just like I did when my 2 got Pancreatitis and bad bacteria when on Darwin’s I immediately get them to the Vet. The food Company would not help after your pet gets sick….Honestly they do not care and feel like you are just blamming them and or their food so they blow you off. I can almost instantly read it in their voice. Yes I agree Customer service is important but it is certainly not there anymore these days from my experience. I am still trying to find the perfect Raw for my dogs that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to ship. I can get Vital Essentials and Primal and Natures Instinct but my problem with the Primal and Natures Instinct is the veggies and fruits they put in them. My dogs are doing good on the Rabbit from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore but the $45 shipping is killing me. What if I feed Raw low fat meats just from the grocery and add in Steve’s mix? I just don’t want to do all kibble since I have not seen a huge improvement on it. It seems like I am fighting a never ending battle with my dogs are their diet these days. I am beginning to think it has nothing to do with food but the way man has bred dogs for the last years, The DNA code has been terribly messed up. I know dogs to this day that are fed Pedigree and thrive and have no health issues…I won’t feed cheap/grain food to my dogs and try to feed the best I can but it seriously back fires on me. I am to the point of buying my own meat and cooking the snot out of it and adding in supplements and maybe then I won’t have problems. Sorry just venting. I honestly do not know which way to turn in the food direction.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve bought skinless turkey necks from Primal and I buy bulk duck necks from a local retailer by me. The grocery store has skinless necks too. I’ve seen them at Walmart and the health food store.

[SandyandMila]

Great videos of Gertie!! 🙂 I’m thinking of beginning Mila on raw meaty/ recreational bones and I’m excited to see the health benefits they will give her. I have read and seen videos on the Primal website regarding the feeding of these bones but would like to ask more info if I could. Recreational bones are to fed 1-2 a week, how often should meaty bones be fed? How long should they be stored in the freezer, especially after the bag has been opened? I know Mila can eat the turkey necks or chicken backs that medium-large size dogs can eat but should I start her off on the chicken necks? Because she’s not used to having fatty food, will the fat have a negative effect on her stomach or is it good fat and won’t interfere? Do you feed the Primal bones or should I look at other companies as well? Which do you suggest? Thanks so much, I look forward to your reply! (:

[pugmomsandy]

“I have heard varying opinions in the forums about adding probiotics and enzymes. Someone said there are natural probiotics and enzymes without having to add and pay for supplements.”

There are naturally occurring probiotics in foods like kefir and yogurt and raw goat milk and tripe (which tripe also has enzymes). It really depends on how healthy or unhealthy your dog’s gut is. Has he eaten a variety of foods so that he produces a variety of natural gut flora? Or has he only eaten a few foods for a long period of time? Also yogurt usually only has a few strains of acidophilus. Some store bought probiotics have over 10 strains which I think is ideal. I have both Mercola and Dr Langers probiotics.

“How/when do I do this with a raw diet? How do I do this on his current diet while I’m transitioning to a raw diet? How do I transition to a raw diet?”

You can give probiotics and/or digestive enzymes with meals as you are transitioning and even when he is completely on a raw diet. I still feed kibble and raw so I still use these products. You can transition him to a raw diet in various ways. You can slowly introduce raw (like frozen raw medallions or raw bites like Instinct brand has) a couple times a day as treats to see how he does or you can feed one meal of old food and the next meal of raw food. Or every 3rd meal of raw food. Depends on how his stools are! Also raw foods generally have more fat so you must take that into consideration.

“Are there specific recipes for smaller breeds versus larger breeds, older versus younger dogs, etc.? Is it okay to feed him nothing but raw? Can I freeze/store what I’ve made if I’ll be on vacation?”

A homemade raw diet is good for all breeds and ages (except maybe for breeds prone to pancreatitis) and he can be fed nothing but raw. You can freeze in small batches and pull out what you need for 2 to 3 days worth. For vacation, if you’re taking your dog you might be interested in freeze dried raw as it is shelf stable. Some examples are Stella and Chewy’s, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Vital Essentials, Nutrisca and Primal. I wouldn’t give him marrow bones in the beginning as they are just fat.

Yes, he is an inactive dog. After you start feeding, be sure to weigh and/or monitor “body condition score” so that he is an ideal “shape”. My dogs are heavy but are still of good body condition for their breed. There a several “body condition score” photos you can see online.

[weloveloki]

We’ve been feeding Loki, our, now 5mo Rott/GS mix, a raw food diet since we brought him home from the shelter at 3 months; been serving him mainly Stella & Chewy’s and also Primal Canine, he seems to love it, all varieties. Recently, our local Pet Food Express gave us an individual sample of “Tucker’s”, a new product they carry from a “local, USA company” and “the hook” was that it was “$10 less” per bag…!!! They have a very positive, “pat yourself on the back” web-site and Loki had no problem “wolfing” the sample down, either; was wondering if anyone else here has heard of them and tried their products, and if you have any feedback to share on your experiences….THANKS in advance, looking forward to any replies…!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

You could try adding a limited ingredient venison-based canned food, dehydrated food or raw food to make the dry more palatable.

Canned Options:
-EVO Grain-Free 95% Venison
-Canine Caviar Green Venison Tripe
-Natural Balance LID Venison & Sweet Potato
-Addiction Venison and Apple Entree
-Wysong Venison Au Jus

Dehydrated Options:
-Grandma Lucy’s Artisan Venison
-Addiction Fig’licious Venison Feast

Frozen Raw:
-Primal Canine Venison Formula

Also, another dry food that’s venison based and limited in ingredients to possible try would be Addiction’s Viva La Venison.

All of the formulas I mentioned contain venison as the only protein source and some of the canned formulas contain only venison and no other ingredients (aside from vitamins/minerals) so they shouldn’t trigger any sensitivities.

I would also recommend supplementing his diet with a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and digestive enzymes to help strengthen his digestive system. A spoonful of pumpkin with each meal during the transition may help as well.

[petsforpeace]

Woodrow is an amazing 55 lb. 2-3 year old Cattle dog/ shar pei/lab mix rescue. He has issues with a few triggers that send him across the threshold. Woodrow and I are being coached by a positive trainer/behavior specialist. He has plenty of exercise throughout everyday. The trainer has suggested a low protein diet could possibly could help him. He is currently getting Acana Regionals grain free in the morning and Vital Essentials or Primal Raw in the evening. I mix the proteins with both the kibble and the raw. He has been on this diet for 1 1/2 years. She has also instructed the use of only kibble, no raw. Has anyone had any experience with this? And….what the heck would I feed him? Thank you.

[LeahT]

Thank you for the links! I read through them and they are all very helpful.

We have been going to the same vet for years, and my parents for many years before now, but I have been wondering for a while if he is sort of out of touch with more current practices. We had taken our lab to another vet about an hour from here, but he brushed her seizures off as being something genetic. He was the one who recommended we try Neurotrophin, but didn’t seem to have any concern about her food. I will definitely be getting her thyroid levels checked as well.

From what I read in those our Jack needs a diet without carbs, low in fat, and high in protein. I would love to put her on a raw food diet, but I honestly don’t know enough about it that I would trust myself to do that. I would rather, at least until I do some additional research, find a dog food brand to try with her that suits that diet.

I have also read online somewhere (I can’t remember if it was this site or somewhere else?) that there might be some link between seizures and rosemary in dog food. Does anyone know if there is any real evidence behind that?

So, does anyone have any recommendations for low carb, low fat, and high protein dry dog food? And possibly one that falls into that criteria that does not have rosemary? I’m not even certain what is considered “low fat” and “low carb” for dog food, but I found a few through this site that seemed to fit that: Back to Basics, Dried-N-Alive Chicken Formula, Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural, EVO Turkey and Chicken Formula, Primal Freeze-Dried Beef Formula, and ZiwiPeak Dehydrated Venison. I’m not sure what would be the best, but the freeze-dried/dehydrated seemed to have the lowest carb content.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Our 1 yr old Bernese Mtn Dog has been eating Turkey, Duck, Chicken, Beef & Lamb version of Primal complete formula for 6 months. We rotate after each bag to a different protein source – over the last 2 months, he has stopped eating each version. He is hungry but passes his bowl as if it has poison. Started avoiding fowl, now beef and finally lamb. We were adding fish oil to help with his coat but stopped doing that thinking it may have something to do with it. Currently back on cooked chicken and rice since that is all he will eat. Is it the raw food or the Primal? Should we try a different brand or try kibble? He is plenty active and behaving normal in every other way.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You can get much better quality with homemade raw than with any pre-made raw food.

[epiphone324]

Have you looked into the primal grinds or mixes? They are less expensive, still five star and great for supplementation. I dont really know if you can get such a great product from a homemade raw. The primal has quite a few quality ingredients I would have a really hard time gathering. I work in a pet store and primal is one of the things I recommend the most. I’ve seen great results with my pets and with customer’s pets.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ella, I agree with Sandy. Homemade raw – while more time consuming – is so much cheaper than commercial raw. There are some great books out there with balanced recipes – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite and Dr. Becker also has a great book out called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.” I have three bloodhounds and it would cost me over $1,000 per month to feed most commercial raw foods – I’m spending around $400 a month to feed all three homemade raw (that’s including supplements and everything). I order most of my meat from a wholesale supplier for less than $1 per pound and other meats I order from Hare Today (reasonable prices and reasonable shipping), I buy my supplements from Swanson’s (very reasonably priced quality supplements). I have my recipes posted on the recommended menus thread if you want to check out the types of meats/supplements I feed. The other benefit to homemade raw is that you’re in complete control of quality. If you’re not comfortable making your own food I’d say that the cheapest commercial raw brands would be Answer’s, Bravo Balance, HPP or K9 Kraving.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s carnivorefeed-supplier. Have you thought about making homemade raw? There are recipe books you can buy and it ends up being alot cheaper. You can also supplement his diet with 20% of unbalanced food like giving chicken wings/necks/backs/gizzards/heart, etc.

[pugmomsandy]

Have you looked at the other products available where you buy the Primal? You might also find a supplier at carnivorefeed-supply. It is a yahoo group you can join where suppliers post. I buy 2 lb bags of ground frozen for around $2/lb and I make my own grinds too. Alot cheaper that way!

[ella]

Have you considered putting her on a natural diet? I hate going to the vets. I’d rather spend $2 on a nutritious diet than spend $1 on a vet.

I switched my dog to Primal Raw Frozen. It’s mostly meat with very few carbs. Grains are used in feed lots to make animals fat, and they have other side effects that make animals sick.

Dogs weren’t designed to eat grains and carbs. Sounds to me like you have a typical vet. So interested in selling you expensive drugs and crap, that he doesn’t have time to address the problem. Allegra for a dog??? Please.

Even if your dog didn’t used to have allergies to the food doesn’t mean that he tolerates it well. Sometimes it takes a while for dietary choices to catch up. Just like kids that get 90% of their calories from sugar and starch and carbs, they may not exhibit severe symptoms as teenagers. Watch them when they’re older, though, and you’ll notice much more in the way of illness, obesity and diabetes than humans who eat the natural diet of humans.

I’d bet that your dogs problems will go away if you feed your dog a natural diet.

[ella]

I have my dog on Primal Raw Frozen been formula. I like the product, but am looking for a cheaper alternative. Not necessarily better, just cheaper. The Primal costs about $4 – $5 per day for my 33 pound dog! Yikes.

Is there another food that is mostly meat and very low carbs that is cheaper?

[InkedMarie]

I dream of winning the lottery so I can open a dog food store. I’ve thought about what foods I’d bring in. I’d choose companies that haven’t had a recall. I’d have Fromm, Earthborn, Dr Tim’s for starters. They’re good foods, good price point. I’d have Annamaet as well. I’d probably have Acana and Orijen because some think higher price automatically means better foods. I’d have some dehydrated as well. I’m an Honest Kitchen fan so I’d have that as well as Grandma Lucy’s. I’d have Primal pre made raw, probably Stella and Cheweys. Canned too.
Educated staff is of utmost importance.

[weimlove]

Oh my goodness I am so sorry to hear that! It is so frustrating when you spend so much time researching a raw diet and preparing their meals, for it not to work out. Shadow stayed at the holistic vet lastnight. I picked him up this morning and when we got home he had liquid diareahha and still wouldn’t eat. All they did at the holistic vet was give him fluids. Since he was still worse I took him to a normal vet that’s close to my house. She says he may have a touch of pancreatitis but that she thinks we caught it in time. She gave him some antibiotics and an injection to calm his tummy. I went to the store and bought some wellness chicken and rice canned food. Thankfully he ate almost a whole can! The vet I went to was very kind and understanding. I think for now I’m going to use canned food until his appetite comes back all the way. When it does, I’m thinking about just going to a pre made raw such as primal. I want to feed shadow the best, but I don’t want to risk his health.

[Cyndi]

Hi again! I have another question, for anyone that feels like answering. I currently feed my dog Nature’s Variety Instinct grain free kibble in the morning. In the evening I feed her Deli Fresh by Fresh pet. My question is if I were to switch one of her meals for either Primal Raw frozen or Nature’s Variety Raw, which one do you think I should I eliminate? I still don’t feel comfortable switching to all raw, so I figured atleast this is a start. Thanks in advance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

You may want to get your boy on some supplements that will help his allergies – quercitin, nettle, burdock root and perilla leaf, omega 3’s, bromelain, papain and coconut oil are all supplements shown to help ease allergy symptoms. Aunt Jeni’s sells a supplement called “Enhance Allergy Aid” with vitamin c, burdock root, quercitin and biotin. Vet’s Best sells a supplement called “Seasonal Allergy Support” with bioflavinoids, nettle leaf, vitamin c, perilla leaf and quercitin. You may want to consider purchasing one of these or a similar supplement and giving him some fish oil and coconut oil daily.

If your he is indeed allergic to your grass you should bathe him frequently in an herbal shampoo (avoid oatmeal-based shampoos) and have a foot soak ready to use after he’s been outdoors (you can make a solution using 1 gal. water, 1 c. hydrogen peroxide and 1-4 c. white vinegar or you can mix povidone iodine with water). Soak his feet every time he comes indoors so he’s not tracking the allergen through your house and vacuum frequently.

You should make sure his food is low in carbohydrates as high carbohydrate diets are “pro-inflammatory” and can worsen allergy symptoms. Your best bet, as Patty mentioned, would be a balanced raw diet. If that’s not possible a high protein canned or dehydrated food would be the next best option. If you must feed kibble keep it high protein. My top picks for kibble would be Orijen (38-40% protein), Nature’s Variety Instinct (35 – 42% protein), EVO (42-52% protein), Solid Gold’s Barking at the Moon (41% protein), Artemis Maximal (42% protein) Earthborn Primitive Natural (38% protein) or Wysong Epigen (60% protein). If you can at least top the kibble with balanced raw or a high quality canned or dehydrated food, this would be better than kibble alone.

Supplementing with probiotics is known to help allergies as well. I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic to the food such as Mercola Probiotics, Garden of Life Primal Defense, Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS or Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms. Probiotics may help firm up his stool as well. Some other ideas to help firm him up would be adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplementing with digestive enzymes.

Remember it may take several weeks for things to clear up. Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Patty –

When I first ventured into raw feeding I fed Primal RMBs and their turkey necks were HUGE – about 1 lb. each. The turkey necks I get from my new supplier are on the small side (only about 6-8 oz. each), so the weight is for both. Technically, a turkey neck has a balanced C:P ratio, but it’s on the high side (about 1.8:1). I would just make sure your dogs are getting about one half the amount of muscle meat as they are RMB. So feed 1/2 lb. boneless meat for every lb. RMB (roughly, doesn’t have to be exact – a little more or less will still be balanced).

[K-Rae]

I started my 4 dogs onto pre-made raw a month ago. They are currenty getting chicken and beef (carnivora.ca), and mixed raw bones to chew on once or twice a week. I plan on switching them onto a different brand (k9choicefoods.com) and serving beef, bison and llama. No more chicken.
My 9 yr old pom/chi and my 8 yr old german shepherd are urinating way to much. The 10 yr old westie is a little more and the 1 yr old collie/chihuahua (yes I know) is completely normal. I have asked my vet for her opinion and she says switch back to kibble and you won’t have a problem, and if it does continue bring them in. I will not switch back to kibble, and the increased urination is the ONLY negative side effect.
– not drinking any more water (actually was less then when on kibble)
– eating supper at 6:30 out several times before bed at 10-11pm and directly before bed
– urine is clear when they mess in the house over night (not sure which dog, but probably the pom)
– eating 2% of their weight (they are at perfect weight and all extremely fit)
– never had any health problems other than food allergies (why we went to raw)
– normal energy level, maybe slightly increased because they feel good
– the pom has started eating feces again (he did it when he was a pup) * I have reviewed other forums on that and will be adding enzymes as per HDM 🙂
– everyone is defecating properly as per raw, not straining and not overally chalky
I am an educated dog owner, and have done my research before switching to raw. The pre-made works best for us because we work in emergency services and really never know when we will be called out and how long we will be gone. We need to be able to have a friend stop by and feed the dogs and can’t expect someone to feed primal raw for us or spend a long amount of time preparing it. I always keep 2 days of food portioned out into sealed glass containers in the fridge.

I am curious if other people that feed raw have had this problem? Did it resolve it’s self? Is it possible it is the chicken diet? I really don’t know? I am at a loss as to why they are urinating so much. Any help is appreciated.

[Mom2Cavs]

You’re right, I do believe my vet…I switched to this holistic vet which is almost an hour away because my old vet did not diagnose one of my dogs correctly and treated me badly (which was the last straw). The old vet also knew nothing about nutrition. My new vet actually carries Nature’s Variety in his clinic, along with Steve’s Real food. He’s very knowledgable about nutrition, among other things…like the breed I own, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels. And no thanks, I won’t be speaking with Bil-Jac anytime soon. I am very happy with my Acana and Primal. Thanks, though. We each have our own opinions and I just prefer to leave it at that.

[Mom2Cavs]

I haven’t fed the NVI Raw Boost kibble to my dogs, but my cat eats it for her kibble, along with her canned and other moistened freeze dried foods, like Stella & Chewy’s and Primal. She loves this kibble way more than some others I’ve fed her….Orijen/Acana, Fromm, Nature’s Logic….so this is what she gets.

[konamisan]

Hi ALL,
I’m new to your forum and truly new some advice! My JRT is 6 yrs old. 2 1/2 years ago, she woke me up at 3am in the morning whining. I turned on the lights to see what was wrong. To my shock and amazement, you could see how red her body was through her white fur. Her body had small lumps and her face had literally changed and looked like a pug! She was scratching, runnining round the house, jumping in & out the tub it was totally frightening and horrible for her. I rushed her to the ER pet hospital. Where she was given a cortiszone injection and Benadryl. I, half bent over the metal cold table coddling her as the lumps, redness,scratching and whining subsided and a whopping bill. It was ok to take her home a 8am in the morning and told to give her the Benadryl 2 times a day for 7 days. 6 months after that episode, she started scratching her ear and body, shaking her head excessively, her shedding, I could have made another dog with the fur that was falling off her although she wan’t balding. So I took her to the vet and he too gave her meds and irrigated her ears. It wasn’t ear mites. She scartched her ear so bad that it bled and she had to wear an e collar in total about 4 months. This went on and off for another 6 months. Her vet never tested her for what could be the problem. He said it may be allergies. Maybe is not the answer I wanted to hear and my JRT & I were both miserable not to mention the bills which was exhausting my finances. I love my Xena and could not stand to see her suffer any more! So I started doing some on line research of what could be the problem? I learned that putting her on a “Raw Food Diet” might be the answer. So I set out to find which one would be helpful.
I stopped feeding her chicken, anything that had potatoes in it and any other grains & cut out the dry kibble. I started her on Steve’s. After about a month, I started seeing that the scratching had subsided the shedding had not. I kept her on it for another half month then introduced her to others like Bravo, Primal, Darwin’s Instinct & Stella and Chewy’s. I even tried shampoos with out success making sure there was no oatmeal in it. For sure that made her scratch & ear cleaning products. I also founf Dr. Karen Becker’s site and bought the “Probiotics, Krill Oil & Ubiquinol” The last 3 products I ran out of. When I can afford it, I’m thinking of purchasing Dr. Becker’s product the “Detox” bites.
Her coat is soft and shiny, but the scratching has come back, she is licking her paws now and her privates & the shedding continues which I serioulsy vaccum 3 times a week. Don’t wear black to my house 🙁 lol although not really funny. Please someone HELP!!!!!!!!!
Konamisan
Well here I am again and the scratching has crept up on us both.

[Judy]

Hi dogmom2. How is Hank doing with Darwin so far? I’m looking to also purchase Darwin for Blitz. I’m currently on Primal and have tried homemade raw but Blitz got sick probably because of the fat content like your experience. Primal is a bit expensive and Darwin looks pretty appealing especially with the green tripe option for subscribers. I’d be interested to see how your dogs like Darwin and if you would recommend the product.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have Cavaliers, who by nature of the breed, can have heart problems. One of mine has a murmur, last time assessed at a grade 2. As far as I know, atm, the other one is currently fine. My oldest was heart clear until about 10 years old and then I was told she had a grade 5 murmur and probably heart disease. She actually never really had any problems of note, though, with her heart. She just recently passed to the bridge at 12 years old, but it wasn’t her heart….she had a neurological disease (SM) that Cavs also are prone to and that caused her death. Actually, having a Cavalier reach double digits in age is great! Anyway, on to your question……while I don’t feed a “heart diet” I do try to feed as top of the line food as I can (which my holistic vet is fine with). I know that prey raw or homemade is probably the best, but either is not my choice. I have fed a variety of different kinds of food over the years. I’ve fed premade raw, freeze dried raw, dehydrated raw, canned and kibble. I’m currently feeding Acana Singles (Duck & Pear or Lamb & Apple) topped with either Primal or Stella & Chewy’s freeze dried raw or The Honest Kitchen Embark. Sometimes I top with canned foods like Instinct, Wellness Stews, Weruva, etc. I was using Merrick grain free kibble until I had an issue with a bag of the Pork grain free (strange looking and colored kibble pieces caused diarrhea). I’ve also used Merrick canned but have decided to go away from them, too, as they contain carageenan, and ingredient I’m not too comfortable with. I do know about BPA in cans, as well, and that’s why I like the freeze dried or THK. With each kind of food I have often supplemented with a heart targeted supplement (again at the advice of my holistic vet, who btw carries Nature’s Variety in his clinic). Some of my favorites are: Bio Cardio, Cardio Strength, Nature’s Farmacy heartwise and Standard Process Cardio Support. I’ve also given pre/probiotics and enzymes which I think can’t hurt. The heart supplements often contain things like COQ10, hawthorn, taurine, L-Carnitine and omega 3’s. You could also supplement these things individually. Please note that I’m not a vet, but a furmom with babies that more often than not have heart issues. I hope this helps some and gives you something to think about. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi beaglemom –

IMO – frozen is preferable to freeze-dried because it has undergone less processing. Each process a food goes through is just more nutrients lost. Fresh raw would be ideal, followed by frozen, followed by frozen HPP or freeze-dried non-HPP, followed by freeze-dried HPP, followed by dehydrated raw, etc. etc. You want to feed the least processed choice you can. Freeze-dried will also cost a lot more to feed than frozen or fresh raw. Many of the freeze-dried formulas are HPP (high pressure processed) – including Nature’s Variety, Stella & Chewy’s and many of Primal’s varieties. HPP is a process in which the food is put under extreme pressure to kill bacteria – however proteins and enzymes are denatured, some nutrients are lost and the “good” bacteria is destroyed as well. I prefer non-HPP – fresh or frozen.

[dogmom2]

Hi there.

I have been reading this forum and pet food reviews for quite some time, and feel like I know some of you quite well.

I am a dog mom, 48, married to a retired carpenter. We have two labs, Hank, yellow and is 10 1/2…and Dewey, black, who is just over 7 now.
Hank has always been itchy, required bathing etc fairly regularly. When he turned about 2 he started getting interdigital cysts on his front feet pretty regularly. ( two or three times a year). We did regular bouts of Cepha ( my vet would sell it to us in 500 pill bottles to use as needed. ) at the age of 9 he started having constant anal gland issues on top of the skin stuff. then about a year ago, out of frustration over an episode withnhis feet that just would not heal…I took him to the local
Holistic vet. We went over everything…diet, vaccines etc. she told me that innova ( the food I had always used) had been bought out and since we did not support P&G…we switched to wellness senior, and Merrill canned. We did laser treatments on his foot, and it finally healed.
Long story short, then the black dog Dewey started regurgitating his food, and bile. After a few months of this we decided to go back to innova, since Dewey tolerated it. Well!! After a few days Hank starts tearing himself up, licking his butt, and his ears flare up. We had not even noticed that he wasn’t doing that while on wellness. So we have two dogs and no food that they can share. So we decided to switch again…this time to Evo, red meat, despite being a P&G product…and they both did fine. Dewey not harfing it up, Hank not tearing himself apart. ( and no sign of foot blowouts).
Around this time I started experiment with raw frozen patties…NV lamb, duck etc. they seems to like it, but I did not like the smell. I started reading more, and bought some nice grass fed heart, tongue, etc at we would give them, along with their kibbles and Merrick. And I read…mostly here, and slowly over the last year we have moved further from kibble and more to primal raw frozen (duck, lamb, venison and rabbit), raw ground tripe, local pastured beef , pre and probiotic and hk preference. I still do Evo red meat once a day most week days, because DH prefers to let me do all the raw feeding.
No foot blow outs in over a year, which is a miracle….both dogs seem to be thriving and I am convinced this is the best for them and us.
We had one blip in the road last winter, when I decided I was going to go prey model and finally gave the boys their first chicken leg raw. Hank ended up sick the next day with a horrible case of gastritis that had him pretty sick for a few weeks. (holy giant vet bill!). I suspect the fat from the skin may have been the culprit…but I am gun shy now. Dewey was fine.
So…that is my introduction!!! Lol.
my question is this….we switched from primal to Darwin’s recently due to cost. Darwin’s product looks lovely, and they seem to like it. I fed the beef first, and then yesterday they had chicken. Today hank has gooey looking stool, not quite diarrhea but mucousy. Dewey’s is fine. We have not had this experience with any of the other foods, and yesterday his stools were fine.
Have any of you used Darwin’s had a similar experience??

[konamisan]

Hello Everyone 🙂
I thank God for this site & Forum! I have a female JRT, she will be 6 yrs this March 2013. I have transitioned my beautiful JRT to “RAW” 9 months ago. I changed her diet because she wok me up at 3am in the morning whinning, scratching and the strangest thing I ever saw and experienced in my life. Her skin under her coat was a inflamed red and couldn’t believe how much she resembled a pug due to the whelps, bumps and hives she had all over her body. I could not imagine what could have brought this on??? I rushed her to the aspca emergency costing me a not so pretty penny! She was given an injection & some allergy meds. I held her and rocked her as the whipppering subsided.
Now nearly a year, vet visits, excessive shedding, scratching, ear infections, paw sores, excessive licking, more vet visits, more money, more money, 3 months wearing an e-collar. Just miserable. So as a MOM, I decided to do some research for these allergies she was yet properly diagnosed for and I read that an ancestral diet would be the best thing for her, so I have tried several brands from Steve’s to Nature’s Instinct, Darwin’s, Bravo’s Stella & Chewy, the list goes on. I had to elimnate dry kibble that consisted of glutens, grains, white & sweet potatoe, rice, flax seed, which increased the yeast growth in her ears which was almost like a cauliflower shap from the scratching, bleeding and infections. So here I am looking for much needed help because her allergies started up again. She scratched so bad under her front leg that she developed an infection there as well! she wouldn’t even let me touch her. She is still eating raw, but I don’t see any positive results nor changes. I currently have her on Instinct’s “Rabbit & Lamb” Buying anything and ordering from any retailer is practically hard to order due to the location of where I live. I have been reading the forum thread here & see that Primal & Bravo is the hot topic. I have her on Dr. Karen Becker’s Krill oil, Ubiquinol & probiotics. She is still shedding excessively! I can make another dog with all the hair on the floor & furniture of my home. I vaccum 3 times a week. I even had to change the shampoo I was bathing her with. If anyone comes by to visit, I tell them don’t wear black! LOL. I also have a Yorkshire Terrier, thankfully no problems with him Amen! So to all you wonderful people here, I could sure use your advice on what I can and should do??? As far as putting her back on Primal or Bravo’s???
Thank You ALL Sincerely,
Konamisan

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Chloralu –

HPP stands for “High Pressure Processing.” HPP is a process in which extremely high pressure is applied uniformly around and throughout a raw food product. HPP is used to destroy bacteria and is said to do minimal damage to the flavor, texture and color of raw food (although if you ever buy a product that has undergone HPP and compare it to a non-HPP product you’ll notice that there is a sort of “rind” formed around most HPP products and the color is noticeably grayish – at least in my experience). HPP also extends shelf life. All the benefits of raw food without the risk of bacterial contamination, sounds great right? The downside is that beneficial bacteria, some enzymes and some functional proteins are destroyed as well. Because the “friendly” bacteria is destroyed along with the “bad” bacteria if the food is ever stored improperly and happens to get contaminated with “bad” bacteria there is no “friendly” bacteria to keep the “bad” bacteria in check and prevent it from growing out of control. Oftentimes re-contamination can happen during the manufacturing process (like during all the recent kibble recalls for salmonella contamination). The raw foods that are HPP are: Stella & Chewy’s, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Primal (poultry varieties only). Individuals with immune-compromised dogs may have no other option than HPP if they wish to feed raw, however for a healthy dog I think HPP should be avoided. A healthy dog is fully equipped to handle the bacteria present in raw meat. There are also steps that can be taken to destroy bacteria without altering the nutritional value of the food: apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, raw garlic and alfalfa all have antibacterial properties (not to mention a myriad of other health benefits) and can easily be added to raw food for those concerned about bacterial contamination. If your dog is on a raw diet it’s also a good idea to supplement with a high quality multi-strain probiotic – this will keep the colony of good bacteria in your dog’s gut strong so if bad bacteria ever does come around the dog will be better able to combat it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Beth –

I’m glad to hear Butch is doing better. Of the brands of pre-made raw available to you I would recommend Primal (red meat varieties only) or Bravo. Nature’s Variety Instinct, the poultry varieties
of Primal and Stella and Chewy’s are all HPP (which I’m not convinced is a good thing..). None of them are bad, but the red meat Primal and Bravo would just be my first choices. Have you tried mixing green tripe into his old food? Green tripe usually entices dogs to eat.

[Anonymous]

Butch, who had the strange thing come on him like the hemolytic anemia but was according to vet possibly autoimmune disease, is doing so well now. At first all he wanted was his the Billinghurst’s diet BARF, he had eaten for 2 years. Now he acts like he doesn’t like it. I have tried Nature’s Variety raw, the chicken, and he loved. I also wanted to know what you all thought of the raw’s available to me at pet store, Nature’s Variety, Bravo, Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I also feed a back up dry, Optimal Performance or Epigen from Wysong to help with the cost of raw. Thank you for any advice. Beth

[momtopoms]

Hello

I started feeding commercial raw a year and a half ago after finding this site. I have used NV, Primal,Darwin’s and Stella and Chewys. When I rotated back to Darwin’s in November, my poms would not touch it. I bought Dr. Becker’s book and the e books from Whole Dog Journal so I could make my own. The issue I am having is getting my female Pom to eat the vegetable mixes. I made the ones in Dr. Becker’s book and she will eat the meat but if a add just a little veg mix she refuses. I also tried THK Preference. She prefers NV raw over all the other brands. Should I rotate in NV and not force her to eat the homemade with the veg mixes. How often would she need the NV? I also add NL All Food Fortifier. Would that be enough? I just started ordering from Hare Today and they all like the grinds I have tried so far. I also have Brothers on hand in case I am short on time since I work at a hospital and have to go in at strange hours with short notice. Any help would be appreciated.

Susan