[Bobby dog]

I am not sure if there is a magic number I can give you; every dog is different. I feed about half kibble the rest canned, raw, or fresh foods and I have had success aiming for moderate to low carbs. I have had to play around with my dog’s diet due to skin issues. I am happy to say after close to a year of lots of elbow grease and tweaking his diet he has healthy skin and a beautiful coat.

Here’s my list and carb %’s on a DMB using the data from each company’s website:
Fromm’s Shredded Beef 22%
Merrick Golden Years Medley 8%
Nature’s Recipe Pure Essentials LID GF Chic/Broth 11%
Nature’s Recipe Pure Essentials LID GF Lamb/Broth 11%
Nature’s Recipe Pure Essentials tub LID Duck 11%
Nature’s Recipe Pure Essentials tub LID Venison 11%
Nature’s Recipe tub GF Chic & Duck 8%
Nature’s Recipe tub GF Chic & Venison in broth 8%
Nature’s Recipe tub Chicken in broth 6%
Nature’s Recipe tub Chic & Turkey in broth 11%
Nature’s Recipe GF Chic & Turkey stew 22%
Nature’s Recipe GF Chic & Venison Stew 22%
Tiki Dog Kauai Luau 8%
Tiki Dog Lahaina Luau 13%
Tiki Dog Maui Luau 17%
Tiki Dog Tonga Luau 11%
Wellness Core Weight Management 16%
Wellness Stews 17%
Weruva Marbella Paella 7.2%
Weruva Bed & Breakfast 23.6%
Weruva Paw Lickin’ Chicken 9.7%

There are more foods out there, these are just local to me. Here is a site you can use to find carb %’s on a dry matter basis:
http://www.scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

[Dog_Obsessed]

Hi pitlove,
What do you consider low-carb? The Orijen Regional Red has about 28% carbs on a dry matter basis. It seems that most canned dog foods have similar carb readings, as canned foods tend to be much lower in carbs than kibble. So I would say to browse around some of the high-quality canned foods, and find one that looks good. You can look at the DFA review to see the carb content, or if you are considering a formula that is not the one highlighted in the review and want an exact reading, then you can manually calculate the carb content. First, use this system to find the as-served carb content: /choosing-dog-food/dog-food-carbohydrate-content/
Then, use this system to convert it to dry matter basis: /choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/
Good luck! 😀
–DO

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Dog_Obsessed.

[Pitlove]

Really interested as to if any of you have found any canned foods out there that are low carb. I have an 11 mo pit with a yeast infection under his nail beds and aside from the foot soaks and anti-fungal meds, I’m trying to prevent/combat this with his diet. I’m going to be switching him from NV Instinct Raw Boost to Orijen Regional Red for his dry, but I have to feed him wet as well. I am having a hard time finding a canned food without tons of carbs, mainly potatoes. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[Susan C]

Hi,

I raised my Golden Retriever puppy on Orijen LB Puppy, and I can tell you that he grew slowly and exactly as he should, according to my vet. His father weighs 75 lbs. My puppy just barely reached 65 lbs at 1 year. His head started showing heavier bone & a more mature look at 12 months and now he’s 13 months and his chest is just starting to grow wider. Orijen LBP is made of whole foods, not added nutrients. They seem to have been absorbed at the rate he needed them.

Adding: And I can also tell you that he’s never been short on energy, despite his low carb diet. He’s a high-energy, active dog.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Susan C.

[aquariangt]

I’ve never used a weight loss food. If they start getting a bit chunky i reduce the food a bit of what they are eating. I also keep protein to a maximum and carbs to a minimum (for kibble, they always have more carbs than canned and raw) which helps keep them in shape. A quick glance at farm and fleets website, the only brand im comfortable with is Wellness. I didnt see it online, but perhaps in store they have Wellness CORE. I’ve heard of people using Wellness CORE reduced weight or whatever it’s called with success, so maybe try that. Depending on what you are switching from, if its a lower quality food you would be feeding a lot less on any wellness than you would on that, and the better ingredients will assist in natural weight loss

[Myra S]

I’m having a heck of a time with keeping my 3 dachshunds weight in check. I don’t like feeding a high protien because my male can’t handle it. Don’t like fat over 12% because female has had one pancreatic attack years ago. Keeping that in mind why is it if I’m portion feeding with high quality, low fat and protien and making sure they get exercise they still run a couple of # over. Treats consist of low fat or frozen veggies. How do you decide calories and carbs if you can’t get to DFA while shopping? I do measure each ones food and try to adjust while getting them enough nutrition. Vets are NO help on this matter.

• This topic was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by Myra S.

[aimee]

Hi Alan I,

I don’t have a reference handy for you but my understanding is that dogs are very resistant to dietary ketosis compared to people. I think this is why you can’t find much on dietary ketosis in dogs. I wouldn’t expect one would see ketones in the urine of a low carb fed dog unless another problem was present.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Dawn R- I am very sorry to hear about your struggles with Bella. My dogs had a similar start. First of all, I’m pretty sure you have done this, but I just have to ask. Has she been retested for Giardia? It is a difficult parasite to get rid of at times and I’m wondering if it is active again. Have you wormed her lately? If not, I’d try either Panacur or Drontal Plus in case she had some dormant giardia lurking.

My pups had a bad case and struggled with diarrhea off and on for a few years. I think the parasites and the over use of antibiotics caused them to have a leaky gut or some form of colitis. Check out this site for some great info: http://www.dogaware.com/health/digestive.html

My dogs are having issues right now because I think I got too confident in their tummies being better and they are not. I am feeding them the Merrick Classic Chicken formula and it is not going too well. However, when I fed them the Merrick grain free duck and turkey they did fine. My suspicion is maybe there are just too many ingredients in the classic formula. My dogs do fine with peas, sweet potatoes, and rice as a binder. I’m now suspicious of rye and barley as no no’s.

So far, my best kibbles for them have been Victor grain free and California Natural Pork and Peas. I try to add some fresh, frozen or canned to their kibble every meal. Your best is to try to keep their kibble as simple as possible. Shoot for just one protein and one carb with low fat and slightly higher fiber. I think the California Natural Pork formula might be a food one for you. I ordered it from Pet Flow when it was 30% off to give it a try!

The supplements that I have used with success are:
Seacure, Phytomucil, Vetri Pro BD, Gastriplex, Perfect Form and Pro Flora probiotic
chews. I still rotate them.

Oh, and also, plain canned pumpkin doesn’t work wonders for us either. But the Fruitables Pumpkin digestive canned supplement does. It has a few other goodies in it that seem helpful. Of course, it costs at least twice as much as the plain pumpkin.

Please write back if you have anymore questions!

[Alan I]

I moved my 8yo Jack Russell onto a Raw Food Diet about four months ago. She suddenly started urinating a lot and having accidents in the house (something she’d never done before) so I took her to the vets. I then received a panic call to say her ketones were really high and that she had critical diabetes. I was obviously rattled by this and we began (7 weeks ago) to inject her with insulin twice a day. The vet tried to get me onto diabetic kibble but I refused.

There isn’t much online about ketogenic diets in dogs but lots on humans and what it all says is ketone levels are always high which you cut out carbs and rely on protein for your energy – it’s obvious really when you think about it. Having read these threads I’m starting to think that her increased urination was a function of the change and her ketone levels had nothing to do with diabetes but were just natural.

I have now challenged the vet – no response yet – to find another measure for diabetes. Obviously they also did a glucose curve which was very shallow (it’s supposed to spike after food then drop) but I watched a lecture on ketogenesis online yesterday that said those on a ketogenic diet don’t have spiked glucose curves – again this is obvious as they are not having to produce lots of insulin to process the sugar in carbs.

I’m wondering if anybody has a view. I now fear my dog doesn’t have diabetes, in which case I could be poisoning her with insulin. Over production of insulin causes triglycerides which lead to weight gain and all sorts of other complications! I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place.

HELP!!

[Kathleen C]

Chuckles, I think this is the same one sent before. Also, thanks for the other information. Still not sure I would try raw even though it sounds ideal. Have to think about that. Has anyone tried Wysong Epigen Original Chicken Formula for a very high protein and very low carbs? High fat but seems a bit “out there” otherwise. Not sure what kind of weight lose it would cause.

[Lori]

cdubau, Fromm’s also has a new kibble http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/#gold-coast-weight-management

It looks to be similar in protein, fat, etc. but whitefish and salmon meal first 2 ingredients.

Here’s some info on calculating carbs from Dr. Mike:

How to Estimate the Carbohydrate
Content of Any Dog Food

So, if knowing the carb content is important to you — and it should be — here’s a quick and easy way to estimate the amount of carbohydrates in any dog food — yourself.

Basically, all foods contain the same four major nutrients — known as macronutrients:

Proteins
Fats
Carbohydrates
Moisture (water)

In addition, all foods also contain ash — the non-combustible mineral residue remaining after burning away all the protein, fat and carbs.

Ash content can vary — but typically measures about five to eight percent for most dog foods1 .

So, for consistency, we routinely use 8 percent as a benchmark for this important variable (ash) throughout this site.

Making the Calculation

When making this calculation, it’s important to keep in mind the following scientific principle:

Protein + fat + ash + carbohydrate + water must always equal 100 percent of the total pre-cooking weight of any dog food.

So, you can use simple math to reveal the missing amount on any other variable — which in this case of a pet food would be the carbohydrates.

Simply start with 100 percent and subtract the percentage for each of the known macronurients.

By the way, you can ignore the fiber content because fiber is a type of carbohydrate and would be automatically included in your carbohydrate calculation.

Here’s an Example

Say a particular dog food contains 26% protein, 14% fat and 10% water. How much carbohydrate should we expect to find in that product?

To estimate the amount of carbohydrate present in this example, simply start with a total of 100 percent. Then subtract the protein, fat and moisture percentages.

And of course, don’t forget to allow for an ash content of about 8 percent, too.

So, your math would look like this:

Carbohydrates = 100% – 26% – 14% – 10% – 8% = 42%

In other words, if you subtract all the “known” nutrients, you’d be left with the missing variable — carbohydrates — which in our example would be about 42 percent.

[Kathleen C]

aimee, from your answer above: “When fewer calories were fed as fat and more as carbohydrate the dogs lost more weight and a greater percentage of fat (Borne).” This is what I find hard to comprehend. I always think of carbs as the reason for dogs getting fat to begin with, for some reason. And no, I’ve not thought about canned, raw or dehydrated food. I would like to get him away from the chicken though. Since hearing dogs can have a problem with chicken allergies I’ve looked at regular kibble but nothing out there is low calorie. His first owner fed a low quality salmon food from Costco and she said he never seemed to have any ear allergies like he does now.

[aimee]

Hi Kathleen,

Making a few assumptions here, on a caloric basis the percent of calories coming from protein are close, (5% difference) and without knowing the protein digestibility of the two diets it is hard to tell with which diet Jack would be getting more protein from. The percent of calories from fat will be about 25 % lower and percent from carb about 25% higher when feeding Annamaet. When fewer calories were fed as fat and more as carbohydrate the dogs lost more weight and a greater percentage of fat (Borne).

[Kathleen C]

InkedMarie, it’s fantastic that you mentioned Annamaet because yesterday I did get in touch with them about their carb amounts in the Lean and here’s what they sent back:
Lean contains 30% Protein, 8 % fat and 41% carbohydrate, 10% moisture, 3.5% fiber and 6.8% ash with 350 kcals/cup.
As you can see their carbs are high and the protein is lower than the Wellness Core he’s on now. The fat is great as are the calories. However, with the carbs so high and the protein lower I don’t feel this would work for Jack.

[Kathleen C]

Several months ago when I joined the Advisor group we were told the carb amounts for all Wellness dog foods straight from Wellness itself. The carbs they listed for the Core Reduced Fat was As Fed: 34.19%, Dry Matter: 37.16%. So the 42% is not correct as least as far as Wellness says. I’ve had Jack on this for months without very much lose at all and have been looking to change. So far I’ve not found anything with higher protein, lower fat and low carbs. More exercise would be good, but he’s just not that active a dog even at the dog park. Like cdubau I would like some other choices as well.

[Anonymous]

Nutrisca dry (salmon) is potato and grain free (ingredients copied from chewy.com)

Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Peas, Chickpeas, Salmon Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Pea Fiber, Flaxseed, Calcium Carbonate, Salmon Oil (a source of DHA), Dicalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Dried Eggs, Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Carrots, Cranberries, Apricots, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Iron Proteinate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Folic Acid, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Biotin, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract.

[losul]

Aimee, I tried a search on “protein dehydrating” and “protein dehydrating in dogs” all I came up with was an article or two pertaining to humans and high consumption of protein.

It’s interesting though that I found this article, that said this;

“Other potential factors behind polydipsia and polyuria are low protein diets,”

http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/urinary/c_multi_polydipsia_polyuria

K-Rae, I couldn’t come up with much info on the ingredients in carnivora.ca from their website, not sure, but I get the feeling from reading on it that they are against any carbs in the food? Regardless, I would be trying a different raw diet, and don’t be afraid to to use a good balanced one that does include some moderate carbs, they might do much better on it. It could be that your dogs are still drinking in excess as part of a learned/ingrained behavior from dry food days. I agree with the others though that this polyuria should be reason for concern, and should be investigated further. Seeking vet care/tests would be best, but you could at least do a phone consultation with a vet that knows raw feeding, and then go from there.

AJ, you CANNOT feed your 12 week old puppy nothing but chicken breast and wings, if that’s what you are saying. He will DEFINITELY have malnutrition disorders if you do so, and I would strongly suggest getting him back on a complete and balanced diet.

[theBCnut]

I have 2 dogs who do not have these issues at all with any food and one that has these issues with every food that is low fiber. I take that to be an issue with my dog, NOT the food.

I have cooked and puree pumpkin and it works great. I live in a hot climate, so I don’t melt the ice cube first, but you definitely could. I give it before I freeze it the first day I open the can.

Rice and other grains are cheap, so dog food companies use them to bulk out the calorie count on cheaper foods. They do have some fiber in them, but are primarily carbs.

[aimee]

Hi Cdubau,

In regards to weight loss the balance between caloric expenditure and intake is the most important factor in success. If the dogs are not losing weight at the current amount being fed than caloric intake needs to decrease or expenditure needs to increase. Having your dogs evaluated by your vet to make sure that medical conditions are not playing a role is a reasonable thing to do.

Wellness recommends to use their package recommendations as a starting guide. You may still have wiggle room here to adjust downwards but I understand your concern to meet nutrient needs. As my own dog has low caloric intake requirements it is something I monitor. Using a nutrient analysis from the company, your dog’s weight and amount fed the intake can be calculated and compared to NRC requirements.

You may need to switch diets if you are not meeting nutritional needs at the caloric intake needed to lose weight.

Throughout weight loss you want to feed a high proportion of calories from protein, this is different than saying a high protein diet. A diet can be “high” in protein on a percentage basis but not on a calorie basis depending on the fat value of the diet. People differ in their recommendations to feed the energy calories from carbohydrate or fat. There are a few studies on this to guide us. In Romsos’ study, dogs fed a diet 25% protein calories, 62% calories as carb and 13% as fat were leaner and gained weight less efficiently than dogs fed 25% protein calories 0% carb calories and 75% fat calories. In Kim et el when keeping total calories fed the same, increasing the percent of calories from fat by about 8% doubled trunk body fat in 12 weeks while weight remained the same.

In regards to weight loss, when fed a low fat diet and holding fat calories constant, weight was loss was greater when more calories were fed as protein vs carbohydrate (Bierer). I think this is where people assume that low carb diets are preferable for weight loss. However, when keeping the percent of calories fed as protein constant dogs lost more body fat when fed a greater percentage of calories as carbohydrate and fewer percent of calories as fat (Borne) . There was a confounding variable in this study though as the low fat diet was also higher in fiber. The lower fat/higher carb group lost more total weight than the higher fat/ lower carb group but it didn’t differ significantly between the two groups. However the percent of fat loss was significantly greater in the low fat/ high carb group vs the low carb higher fat group.

Putting this all together, based on current research, feeding a high percent of calories from protein and a low percent of total calories from fat and letting the carb calories fall where they may is likely the best composition for a weight loss diet for dogs.

[aimee]

Peter L,

I understand what you are saying but I disagree. I’d expect that there is a significant difference between the nutrient levels in the protein sources that would impact the final analysis. Chicken meal is limited to muscle skin fat connective tissue while beef meal can contain any part of the bovine. Additionally the AA profile should change between protein sources and levels yet this is not what is reported.

Also the canned diets used to report the same analysis as the dry foods did. This has changed for most of the diets yet the rabbit canned diet still reports the same analysis as the dry products, with a few numbers changed here and there : ), despite having a completely different ingredient profile and processing.

chicken dry:Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Eggs, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Kelp, Cheese Powder, Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary,…

Rabbit canned: Rabbit, Water Sufficient for Processing, Turkey Liver, Dried Egg Product, Porcine Plasma, Montmorillonite Clay, Cod Liver Oil, Egg Shell Meal, Brewers Dried Yeast, Dried Apple, Dried Apricot, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Artichoke, Dried Blueberry, Dried Broccoli, Dried Carrot, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Cranberry, Dried Kelp, Parsley, Dried Pumpkin, Rosemary, Dried Spinach, Dried Tomato.

For both diets the Vit A is reported as 23, 020, Vit D 175 Iu/kg, Vit E 21.34 IU/kg,thiamine 46.9mg/kg, riboflavin 8.14….etc

The Fortifier analysis also is very similar to the others yet the ingredient line up is very different.

Another other concern I had with this company’s nutrient reporting was the comparison chart for millet with other carbohydrate ingredients. They report all on a dry matter basis except for millet which is on an as fed basis. When comparing, all ingredient should be reported on a dry matter basis. By not doing this they falsely make the millet look lower in carbs/sugar when comparing to other sources than it actually is. Of greater concern is that they chose to use a processed puffed millet cereal entry from the USDA database instead of millet flour which would more correctly reflect what is in the food. I assume they did this to make millet look lower in sugar than the other ingredients they are comparing to.

[Akari_32]

It just depends on what the dog can handle. Generally, higher protein is better, because it means less carbs, which dogs can not fully digest. I would try Acana first, since its lower in protein than Orijen, and switch them nice and slowly, and see how they do. Most dogs feel much better on higher protein diets, because protein and fat is where dogs get all their engery from.

[Bobby dog]

Hi puppypiles:
I think your name is cute. Very lucky kitty! I would love it if my cats would only eat wet food, but they do crave their crunchies. So I try to stick with foods with lower carbs for UT health. I mostly have finicky cats, they seem to forget what life on the streets was like. My main rotation is Wellness Core Duck & Turkey, Precise Naturals GF Chic, Grandma Mae’s GF cat & kitten, Fromm Duck Ala’ Veg, and NVI GF Healthy Weight. On my list of kibbles to try I have Annamaet GF and grain inclusive, Nutrisource Country Select, and Pure Vita GF chicken.

Here are others I throw in the rotation:
Beyond Superfood Herring, Beyond Chic & Whole Oatmeal, EVO Turkey & Chic, Innova Nature’s Table GF Chic & Turkey, NVI GF LID Turkey, Simply Nourish Source GF Chic & Turkey, Wellness Core GF Kitten, and Pure Balance chicken.

Budget wise Pure Balance (Wal-Mart) and Beyond are the best for me. They are a little higher in carbs than I like, but feeding on a rotational basis works for us.

[Dori]

In my opinion, and that’s all it is, I would change their food. They’ve been on this particular food for a long enough time that you know they are not losing weight. Feeding them at the low end (25% below their intake plus on the low side) could cause health issues of another sort. Recommended guide lines of manufactured dog foods will mean that more or a little less, they will get their nutritional needs from that food given the approx. amount they recommend. If you are always given them less then or at the lowest end of recommendation could possibly lead to nutritional deficiencies.

My suggestion would be go find a 4 or 5 star rated quality food from a reputable company with a moderate to high protein, moderate fat and low carbs and I wouldn’t feed any of the foods on THE list. I checked almost all of those foods earlier today and they are all low in fat and high in carbs.

I may have mentioned that I have three toy breed dogs that I keep on the lean side. I feed them all commercial raw diets. I rotate proteins and brands. Commercial raw dog foods are all very high protein, high fat and low carbs. I don’t have to adjust the amount of food that I feed them going from one to the other commercial raw food because they are all accustomed to high protein and fat diets with low carbs. As a matter of fact there are times that I will feed them more than their normal amounts to get a little more weight on them. My feeding method for them is that I feed them between 2.5% and 3% of their body weight. I bought a cheap digital kitchen scale on Amazon. I think it’s a more precise way of knowing that you’re feeding them the correct amount of food each of them needs. I’ve never liked measuring dry kibble (when I used to feed it to them over three years ago) because not all dry foods are the same exact size so that the cup size will always vary somewhat in the amount your feeding them.

[cdubau]

Usually we have always just had to reduce their foods if they got pudgy and that always worked. I’ll definitely look into the low carb and try that. I was only trying this food because it was in my area, a 5 star and on THE list. I have some experience in the medical field (humans though) and by all means I don’t just assume that reduced fat means it will work.

It concerns me that they are eating the low end of the caloric intake for the weight loss range not the maintenance range. So they are already 25% below their intake plus on the low side. I have also even taken the info to a dog food calculator site to see how much I should be feeding them as well.

I just want them healthy!

[Dori]

Wellness Core Reduced Fat has low fat, but it has 42% carbs which is quite high. The decision to take your dogs to the vet for blood work is, of course, yours. But the fact that both dogs are not losing weight would suggest to me that it’s the food and not that they are ill. That would have to mean that they are both ill at the same time. Of course, this could happen in theory but really rare in practice unless they have caught a contagious illness. Do they have colds or any other symptoms other than not losing weight? Are they coughing, do they have running noses, diarrhea, constipation, foul smelling poops? Just trying to help out here.

I hear what you’re saying that Wellness Core Reduced Fat is on the Best Weight Loss Foods, I’m not questioning Dr. Mikes reviews or thoughts, I just wouldn’t feed a high carb dog food to any dog of mine let alone one that I am trying to get to shed some weight. It all depends on whether one believes that fat causes weight gain (which a lot of people do) or one believes that carbs attribute to weight gain (which a lot of people do). Remember also that, even as with humans, not every diet works for everyone. I’m going to check out the thread on Best Weight Loss Foods and see what else is there I keep all three of my dogs on the lean side so I’ve never looked at that list. I’ll do so now.

I just noticed that you mentioned that both your dogs are around 9 years old. Are they siblings? Are you thinking they might both have hypothyroidism? Has your vet made any suggestions in the past as to weight loss?

I did check the Weight Loss thread and that thread and those suggestions are based on a dog losing weight on a lower fat diet as opposed to low carbs. There are a lot of studies and there has been a lot of research suggests that just like people, low carbs is what will shed the weight. If you do want to have blood work done on your pets, please mention hypothyroidism to your vet and also having the blood work done may alleviated any fears or stress you may have thinking that there may be something else going on with the dogs. It certainly can’t hurt having the blood work done.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[cdubau]

The food I’m feeding them is listed under the Best Weight Loss Foods, so it should “work” to help them lose weight. I didn’t assume that because it said it was reduced fat it would work. I assumed it would work because its a 5 star food and its listed HERE as a best in weight loss. It has high protein to help them feel fuller, low in fat and low in calorie. And they don’t get but two small treats a day IF they actually get one.

They are older and aren’t losing weight, blood work was a question. Should I bring them to get blood work because they are eating BELOW recommended amount and NOT losing weight. If they were huma, eating the low end of caloric intake (even if it was high in carbs) and they weren’t losing weight, I would assume going to the doctor to have that person checked out would be the next step. Just my rational of thinking, but it really was a question.

[Dori]

In lieu of the fact that you’ve chosen a food that is low in fat I’m going to assume that you believe that fat makes dogs fat. It doesn’t. Please choose a food that is low in carbs. Carbs are what cause weight gain and also makes it very difficult to lose weight. So look for a food that has a decent amount of protein, moderate fat, and low carbs and you should see your dog start to lose weight.

People have the misconception that since “fat” is a word that has been used to describe overweight people and animals that they must be getting that way due to eating fat. Nope! It’s the amount of carbs in their diet. Also check out the carbs in their treats.

Why do you feel they need blood work because they are over weight?

[Susan]

Hi, I don’t understand WHY your vet put her on a Proton Pump Inhibitor (PPI) “Omeprazole” first, before trying a H2 Blocker first like Zantac or Pepcid….he’s given Carafate that lines the stomach & must be only given on a empty stomach as it will just line any food in the stomach…be CAREFUL on any PPI’s, my vet explained to me how bad PPIs are if taken long term, you are making NO stomach acid & we need Stomach Acid in our stomachs to balance the pH, please read this link my vet told me I can give Patch Losec BUT for only up to 3 days then STOP, never take more then 4 weeks as you can not just stop taking a PPI, you will have awful pain, you feel like your stomach is going to exploded, cause you start making your stomach acid again & he comes back double amount.. I didn’t know all this & have been on Somac for 10years, I’m starting to reduce my 80mg a day dose, I tried just cutting my dose in half but the bad acid reflux was toooooooooo much & very painful, it was awful… http://refluxdefense.com/heartburn_GERD_articles/stomach-acid.html

A lower fat diet is best for Acid Reflux….. I would be booking to have a Endoscope done & Biopsies done, this way you will know what is happening & why this young pup is having all these symptoms, the vet should of recommended this…. I wish I did this first when I rescued my boy but for 1 & 1/2 years, we did blood tests, Ultra scan, test for Pancreatitis tests all came back good, a waste of money…finally Patch had Endoscope & Biopsies done December & he had what I was telling the vet from day 1, he had the Helicobacter infection, vomiting of a morning, always feeling sick, burping acid reflux, sloppy poos, sometimes diarrhea…..poor boy, he was put on triple therapy antibiotics for 3 weeks Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Zantac to kill the Helicobacter cause my vet does not like using PPI, Losec is normally used but Ranitidine (Zantac) works just aswell without all the side effects from a PPI… I would be using a liquid ant acid like Mylanta or Pepto they work quick… also wet food is better then dry kibble, a low fat diet like turkey breast mince….. in a wet tin food fat must be 2% & under…if you do decide to have a Endoscope done make sure you have the biopsies done as they can tell you so much, when the vets looked down Patches throat & stomach everything look excellent, no scarring from ulcers nothing…

Patch got stomach pain from the Losec, green sloppy poos & his food just sat in his stomach cause he had no stomach acids to digest his food properly & a weird smell came out of his mouth, so I stopped the Losec, put him on Zanatc or use Mylanta when needed only, I changed his diet to a lower fat, Hypoallergenic, Gluten free diet….that just has rice & no grains no lentils or legumes….
you can give slippery elm or Manuka Honey…Slippery Elm is excellent for the stomach…Manuka honey is excellent for acid reflux, u put a little bit of the Manuka honey on small piece of white breed & take 1/2hr before eating…. if you join this F/B group this whole week we have been talking about Acid Reflux in dogs, the F/B group is called “Dogs with Inflammatory Disorders” you will learn so much & everyone is friendly & NICE…..here’s another Link, explaining how Carbohydrates cause GERDs especially if your dog has a intolerance to a carb say Legumes, lentils, barley,oats etc you can get real bad acid reflux…..

[Taek K]

My beagle became allergic to everything a little after the age of 1. I knew of the consequences of feeding him cheap kibbles and bits so I started him off with Orijen then blue buffalo, etc…basically, anything that’s grain free, high in protein, etc…but at the end, it didn’t matter. It couldn’t have been couple of months after the age of 1 when constant itching, scratching, ear infection, eye infection, skin infection, etc started to plague my poor baby. Like most, I took him to vets after vets. Went to an allergist/dermatologist and paid over $700 for testing and allergy shots. I even got him testing for food allergies!!! Thank God I got him pet insurance, otherwise, I probably would have had to fork over over 10k out of pocket within the first year.

I’m just going to assume your dogs problem is associated with food and nothing more. My dog not only suffers from environmental allergies but also yeast infection. But I’ll just give you the run down for food. Otherwise, this post would be too long.

The best thing you can do for your dog is feed him REAL food. I don’t care how great a bagged dog food is made. At the end of the day, it’s all processed. Think of it this way. When Purnia, Pedigree, Blue buffalo, etc type of food companies didn’t exist, what did we feed our dogs? Exactly. We fed them real food. Long story short, I’ve done years of feeding my dog this and that type of real food and I FINALLY narrowed it down to what WORKS FOR MY DOG. And now, no ear or eye infection. He does get skin infection during the super hot months but it’s more like an instance vs a prolong battle. I think last infection lasted like couple days and it went away on it’s own. When infections creeps in, I suggest giving him a bath with antifungal shampoo like 2-3 times a week. But I digress.

Cut out everything that is starchy and sweet. That in turn will starve the yeast. The problem with bag dog food is there will always be starchy fillers. This is so the food company can keep the cost down. Ziwipeak is a brand that doesn’t contain starchy veggies or fruits. But its very expensive. Whether it’s sweet potato, peas, fruits, etc..bottom line, its starchy and will feed the yeast. STARVE THE YEAST!!!

This is what I give my 45lb mixed beagle.

-Salmon/Tuna (This is his staple protein source. This never changes)
-boiled beef/organ meat (I switch this up. One week, I give him beef. The following week, I give him organ meat. All boiled.)
-non starchy vegetables (green beans, romaine lettuce, cabbage, etc)
-plain greek yogurt (read the label; less the ingredient the better)
-berries (only during colder months; I wouldn’t even give him any the first 2 years to wipe out the yeast)
-Dinovite (its a supplement, google it)
-if my dog wasn’t allergic to anything chicken, I would give him a crushed boiled egg with the shell.

Anything that’s not protein based are fillers. Protein should be the base of his food so provide enough of it. There’s going to be a lot trials to see what works best for your dog. But this will work. It just takes time. Integrate REAL food with his food slowly. Once you completely change over to real food, you’ll see huge improvements. FYI…when you start changing his food, he’ll have couple instances of infections. This is expected. Its like the yeast trying to fight back. Keep hold and I promise, it’ll get better.

The only treat your dog should eat are no filler jerky. Read the ingredients. Again, say no to starch/sweet/carb!!! I give my dog BIXBI beef liver jerky.

If anyone needs more info or have any questions, please ask. From one owner who suffered, I wish nothing but the best and will help anyway I can.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Caro-
There is no AAFCO guidelines or requirements for “senior” food. Therefore, it is up to each brand to determine what they are going to call their senior food if they carry one. Some brands’ senior foods are a little lower in protein and fat. Making them a little higher in carbs. Some brands maintain the protein level while dropping the fat and calories. Most of them have added glucosamine and/or chondroitin.
So, you see, it would probably be best to pick a four or five star kibble and add some high quality canned or fresh protein to it to make it more digestible for your dog.
I have fed the Nutrisource Senior food to my dogs. They are only three years old, but I liked the ingredients and analysis of the food. My dogs seem to be better with a little lower fat kibble as I add canned to many meals and it tends to be a little higher in fat.
Another thing to keep an eye on is fiber. Some senior and healthy weight dog food tends to have high fiber which could be good or bad depending on your pup.
Hope this helps. Good luck!

[theBCnut]

Rice is a grain, therefore grain free foods do not have rice in them. Also, while rice does have arsenic in it, it is supposedly not higher than what the body can process every day, HOWEVER, I still don’t want to feed it every day. And if the dog’s diet is the same day in and day out and the food is primarily rice, i.e. cheap dog food, then I definitely don’t want to feed it every day. So this argues for diet rotation. And/or choosing a grain free food.

While dogs do have 2 to 10 times the ability to handle carbs than wolves do, that does not argue for feeding them a primarily carb based diet, 2-10 times next to none is still pretty low.

[Nate D]

Thought I’d give an update on my dogs.

I’ve had the one with crystals on Science Diet per the vet for 1 week now. ph is down from 8.0 to 6.5 and holding. I am testing daily. I won’t know if crystals still exist or not until I have her retested next week.
I do not have her just on the Science Diet though. I am mixing in a small amount of the dry with it along with water.
I have been giving the Solid Gold Berry Balance supplement that I bought to my other dog with his food and have been adding water to the dry food. His ph is dropping so it is working. I plan to have both dogs on it once my female is off of the Science Diet.
I’ve been mixing a 50/50 of distilled water and filtered water I get which already has a neutral ph of 6.0.

I contacted a nutritionist with Fromm who said their food’s ph is 5.6-5.8, which is lower then most high quality dry foods, but the actual output will vary. A lower protein, lower carb diet is good. As I had mine on their weight management food I was suggested to try their 4 star whitefish and potato food as it has lower protein and the carbs are within the same range as the weight management. The food also has a different protein source.
I mentioned trying the new gold coast weight management food as it is grain free and was told I could try it, but was suggested the whitefish food due to the lower protein. 23% vs. 25%.
I was told a cranberry supplement like I am now using is a good thing.
In reality the food should be grain free with no starch/potatoes, but just eliminating it doesn’t mean it will help. I will give the whitefish food a shot and see what results I get from it.

Water consumption is the main key and if using dry food add water.
I was told even using wet food once a day can help a lot.

Unfortunately what will work for 1 dog may not work for the other so it’s a matter of finding what will. If one thing doesn’t work, try something else, but the best thing one can do for any pet is water, water, water. If one uses tap water which may have tons of minerals in it, testing it is a good idea. Water is very good, but it can also cause issues if the ph levels aren’t where they should be.

Ph test strips and testing regularly is a must.

[Stacey A]

Hi. We’ve been making our own dog food for many years and I feel like it’s selfish not to share with others the way we make it economically. I realize the majority of people don’t have access to the same resources that we have but some people might benefit from this information and it really saves a lot of money while being very good for the dogs.

The #1 most important item we have to make this possible is our large pressure cooker. The reason it is so important is that when you pressure cook a chicken the bones become very soft and crumbly like chalk. You can literally take the leg bone of a pressure cooked chicken and pinch it into pieces between your thumb and forefinger. No splinters – and LOTS of calcium and other minerals. This only works with chicken. The bones of turkey, beef, pork etc. will not crumble this way. We have not tried it with fish and we do intend to, at some point. The pressure cooker is well worth the expense because keeping the bones really makes a chicken go a lot further and provides the dogs with a lot of nutrition.

We live on a farm and raise chickens for our friends and family and process them here. All we ask for, in exchange for the work we do raising the chickens, is the cost of feed and all of the “byproducts”, which we use in our homemade dog food. So basically we raise chickens and get paid with dog food. I’m not sure if our definition of “byproducts” is the same as the definition on the dog food bags but, if it is, “byproducts” are definitely not a bad thing. We keep all of the backs, necks, bones and organs (but not the stomach or intestines or feathers or heads/beaks). We would keep the feet because, believe it or not, there is a LOT of meat on feet and they are full of glucosamine etc. In many cultures, people eat the feet after the scales and toenails are removed. Unfortunately my husband is so grossed out by the appearance of the feet that he insists we throw them away and won’t even allow us to give them to the dogs.

I realize others don’t have access to the byproducts that we do but you can just use whole chickens and get the same results. When you cook a chicken for your family you wind up throwing over half of it away. Don’t throw away any part of your store-bought whole chicken, not the giblets or the skin or the necks or bones. If you want to keep the breasts for yourselves and give the rest of the chicken to the dogs you’re getting a very economical meal or two for yourself and the dogs.

So – just throw your whole chickens into your pressure cooker with some water and pressure cook them for 45 minutes to an hour. We think garlic is good for dogs and add a lot of it to the chicken but some people feel like garlic is bad for dogs because it comes from the same family as onions. As far as I know, no studies have been done. It depends on your altitude and what weight you use on the pressure cooker and it might take some trial and error – but cook them until the bones just crumble between your fingers. For us that’s 45 minutes at 10 pounds of pressure. Keep the broth to add to the water you cook your grains in.

Next, cook up an equal amount of rice or oatmeal, wheat berries, amaranth – whatever grains you have cheap and easy access to. We’ll use anything except for corn meal because we don’t want to feed anything GMO to our dogs. Oatmeal and rice are very cheap. There’s some controversy over potatoes but a lot of people feel potatoes are fine to feed to dogs instead of or in addition to grains.

Next, an equal amount of veggies. There’s some controversy as to whether or not the dogs actually need the veggies but they’re a good filler, they’re cheap, and they’re probably good for the dogs. We use stuff from our garden and also go to GFS and get the huge cans of green beans, carrots, and peas.

Just mix everything together and package it up – 1/3 meat, 1/3 carbs and 1/3 veggies. We currently feed our dogs 50% homemade dog food and 50% kibble just to make sure they get a lot of variety, but kibble makes us nervous. You never know when your brand is going to be on the recall list. We’d switch to 100% homemade dog food but we’d have to have a lot more chicken that way and we don’t believe in buying meat. We don’t like to eat anything we haven’t raised ourselves so we know for sure there aren’t any hormones etc. and that the animals were raised and butchered humanely and with very good sanitation.

We also feed the dogs other things when they’re available. We raise milk goats and have access to a lot of fresh raw goat milk – we have been careful not to give the dogs too much goat milk because we don’t want them to get diarrhea but we’ve never had any bad results from giving them small amounts of the raw goat milk or goat yogurt. Goat milk is so much more digestible than cow milk, and if you make it into yogurt or kefir the lactose gets removed. Also, kombucha is very good for the dogs and prevents cancer. We make our own and it only costs about 30 cents per gallon to make.

We have always had large breed dogs – shepherds, shepherd mixes. They’ve lived 13-14 years so we must be feeding them right.

[Dori]

I’m a high protein, fairly high fat, low carb feeder but that’s just too much fat even for me and I feed a higher fat food than most people would be comfortable with unless we’re just reading something wrong. I have always said that it’s the quality of the fat and proteins in a food not the quantity but without truly knowing the quality of their proteins there’s no way to know the quality of their fats. I wish they gave us the dry matter equivalents also. Math and calculations have never been my strong suit so I don’t know how to do it on my own.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

Hi William. Glad you are going to change her diet to a grain free food. Most dogs do better with a high quality protein, modern to high quality fat, low carb diet. Also do your best to avoid high starch’s like white rice, white potatoes, etc. That will help with seizures. Please try to avoid any foods that have rosemary or rosemary extract in them as rosemary is known to trigger seizures in dogs that are prone to seizures. If you will type in Seizures on the forum search box there are a couple of forums on seizures.

Since she has been on one food all of her life, I would start very very slowly by removing a few of the old kibbles and add some of the new food. Typically you can start (some say) by switching out 1/4 of her old food with 1/4 of her new food. You can add some canned pumpkin (grocery store), not the pumpkin pie type, just plain pumpkin or some probiotics to help her get through the change. Keep an eye on her poops. If they seem to be okay (“normal”), then you can move to 1/2 cup old food 1/2 cup new food. All the while checking her stools. If they start to get loose or diarrhea then go back to the mix when her stools were normal. Keep her on that till she’s regular again and then continue with the transition. Every time her stools are too loose, back up, stop and wait. Typically dogs can transition in about 10 days but some dogs will take much longer. I fear that with a dog that has eaten the same low quality dry dog food all her life it may take a bit longer. Some dogs can take up to a month or even two to fully transition. Good Luck. Do the transition slowly and all will be fine.

The Honest Kitchen makes a product called Perfect Form that a lot of us have used while transitioning foods and have been very pleased. It’s a staple I keep in the pantry for my three girls. Eventually, when all is well with your dog…..no more yeasty ears and such hopefully you’ll be able to feed her 2 or 3 or even 4 different foods that she’ll do well with. A lot of us here at DFA are rotational feeders. The more often you are able to transition to a different protein and brand the easier your dog will be able to transition through the different foods. It all makes for a healthier gut and also any nutritional needs that may not be addressed by one brand will be balanced, over time, with other foods. Also, if a food has a recall or your local store has suddenly run out of what you’ve been feeding her, there’s always another food you can feed her without upsetting gut.

[Tere G]

Hi, I feel bad because my dog often licks or scrapes her bowl with her teeth even after she eats, and in between meals. She seems like she’s still hungry but I don’t increase her food portion because I’m trying to manage her weight. She’s a 4yr old small mix (maybe Italian greyhound/ papillon ), 21-22lbs, and has had 2 luxating patellas, which she got pins in to hold her patella’s in place 3yrs ago. Vet suggests she should be 18-20lbs to keep her knees healthy. So most of her life she’s only been on weight management dry food, but she doesn’t seem to loss weight, which she still needs to.
Also, she runs hard and supper fast for abut 15mins a day, off leash while I bike ride, so she’s losing a lot energy that she needs to replenish. I think her food is not cutting her needs.
I have been giving her Wellness Complete Health (Healthy weight, small breed) half a cup in the morning and half in the evening for over a year. I want to keep her kibble small because she doesn’t chew much, she mostly swallows it. She gets tremendous joy from running fast so I don’t want to limit that.
Should I up her protein/fat/ and or carbs based food? Recommendations??

• This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Tere G.

[aquariangt]

Flint River Ranch is a mid range food, low in protein, high in carbs for my liking. Not sure about calcium levels though, you would probably have to contact them for that. Other than those few tidbits, all I know about them is a lot of breeders seem to sell it, and I don’t really see it in stores or online. bit odd to me

Blue uses a MYRIAD of copackers, that’s one of my biggest issues with them.

[Dori]

Stainless Steel bowls. Low carb foods and please buy a doggie toothbrush and dog toothpaste. Brushing is the only real tried and true method of keeping clean. You have to be consistent though and the more often you do it the faster your dog will get use to it.

And….Yes, Xylitol is toxic to dogs. Change vets. Seriously! I wouldn’t like peroxide anyway especially for a dog not accustomed to have their teeth cleaned. Peroxide tastes nasty and foams. YUK! Dog will give you a hard time after that. Doggie toothpastes at least have a taste they like and can swallow without harm. Dogs can’t spit out what you use to brush their teeth with. They swallow it. No matter how little you use of these ingredients they are going to swallow some of it………Xylitol, Peroxide??? HUH? Not good in the long run and brushing their teeth has to be done for their entire life.

[Laura C]

hey Laurel…I’ve learned alot in my research of seizures. Besides rosemary…dogs with seizures need not only grain free, but also low carb, which includes ALL potatoes. A raw diet is best for these dogs…Dr. karen Becker (google her) has a lot of info regarding raw. As far as commercial food, a good one is Orijen Regional Red…it is high protein, moderate fat and low carb.

Shoot me an email if you have more questions…I have a hard time coming to this site with my work hours.

[email protected]

[GSDsForever]

Dori,

EPI is a known issue in GSDs that is genetic. Among well bred GSDs from good breeders of showlines, who breed healthy and correct animals, this and other health and structural problems are less common. None of my dogs I’ve ever owned have had it.

Among GSDs generally, among the “normal” population that does not test positive for EPI and show clinical signs associated with EPI, German Shepherds often have lower than average TLI scores in within the wide “normal” range compared to other breeds.

All of this relates to digestive enzyme activity in digesting their food, which is why the main standard of care treatment for EPI (and related malabsorption conditions) is

*a highly digestible diet with a highly digestible & high quality/biologic value protein source, moderate fat or high digestible fat, highly digestible carb source (like white rice)

*+ Viokase/pancreas (gold standard) or other enzymes added to the food and pre/probiotics

[GSDsForever]

Allergy & Food: I would try a single novel protein/novel carb source diet, including restricting all treats (can only be that protein/carb).

This needs to be something your dog has never eaten before, ideally both the meat/protein source and the carb(s). You feed this a long while and other monitoring (you and your vet), then slowly add back in one protein at a time. You see what makes the symptoms disappear in your dog.

Heartworm Preventative: There are only so many active ingredients effective in heartworm prevention. Heartguard would have the same ingredient as Iverhart, Ivermectin. Your other option is the main active ingredient in the formerly made Interceptor, which now only is available with other anti-parastitics in the formula.

You do need to use one of them, as heartworm is very deadly & brutal on a dog.

You can also have the main active ingredient compounded for your dog at a compounding pharmacy, in whatever form and flavoring/inactive ingredients (in case of severe allergy to what you’ve already tried) and exactly custom to the weight of your dog.

Dry skin & shampoo/conditioner — Please see my thread I already started on that topic here, asking for help.

[GSDsForever]

I would appreciate suggestions & thoughts re shampoo and conditioner for very dry skin, with dry white scaling and non-greasy dandruff.

I’m dealing with a dog that has come through the kill shelter & breed rescue. She is also very itchy and will try to scratch and bite herself. Affected areas are neck, top of back, backs of ears mainly — some by shoulder divides and hips. No paws/legs involvement, behind/anal or top of rear or groin, no underside/belly, and no ear infections. When I part her fur, in some areas it is white skin with fine scales and dandruff.

We are ruling out atopic allergies (outdoors), food allergies soon via novel protein/carb diet & elimination trial, and treating another serious temporary medical condition that may be causing itchiness (or I suppose *could* deplete nutrients). No external parasites of any kind, no round/whip/tape worms etc. No bacterial or fungal infection signs.

She has been eating quality foods, with 1500 mg added of Omega 3 EPA/DHA via wild salmon oil and virgin organic coconut oil.

I’ve used coconut oil on her external body and fur, even parting longer fur and placing it directly on her skin. Unfortunately it does make her fur greasy & attract dirt, making her dirty (which I hate). And coconut oil is VERY hard to remove from fur. I have also applied avocado oil & olive oil, as coconut oil hardens & turns waxy in colder temperatures which I figured it could do in the fur.

She has had two generously donated “spa groomings” with special skin moisturizing and aloe treatments. She looked and felt to the touch fantastic afterward, glossiest dog on the planet lol! But after a few days she still itched.

Her dry scaling skin and dandruff have remained throughout all of this. So, since she has to be bathed regularly anyway, I would like to find a shampoo & conditioner that will help.

Ideally, I would like to find a moisturizing shampoo with an extremely MILD cleansing agent (like what I would pick for my own hair) that will NOT be DRYING or irritating + natural oils or moisturizing ingredients. And then I would like a VERY RICH moisturizing conditioner, perhaps that will some soothing and moisturizing residue behind to coat the skin — without making her fur greasy! Or if it rinses cleanly I could leave it on for a while maybe. I don’t know, as I am taking her to a self-wash place and would probably have to explain why I need to be there a long while or do a two part session!

I’m looking at trying this skin TREATMENT, in addition to shampooing and using conditioner to combat scales/dandruff & soothe the skin:

http://tropiclean.com/products/itchy-skin/oxymed-treatment/details/oxymed-treatment

Ingredients: Water, Colloidal Oatmeal, Beta-Hydroxy Salicylic Acid, Vitamin B5, Vitamin E, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Alpha-Hydroxy Malic Acid, Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fatty Acids and Vitamin A

Since I know GSD show people, this was recommended to me also as a conditioner/shiner. The GSD show kennel that makes it also says it has been effective on skin sores and conditions. It is expensive though, especially with $15 added shipping cost:

http://www.nakedcare.com/

So does anyone have any suggestions or thoughts? Please help me to help her.

A groomer told me to avoid oatmeal containing shampoos & conditioners — which all of Tropiclean products have (I have their shampoos & conditioners) — as the colloidal oatmeal would disperse in the liquid and soak up/cling to all the oils, not allowing oils/moisturizing ingredients to moisturize or shine the fur. She also said it could be a problem in a dog allergic to oats, but I think that is less likely to be this dog’s issue or allergy even if she does have an allergy or allergies. In fact, perfumes and optical brighteners used in some grooming shop brands, I think are more likely to irritate or cause a reaction. I think they used Nature’s Specialties last time, with the owner recalling the Bluing one (which contains both).

• This topic was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by GSDsForever.

[weezerweeks]

Crazy4cats that is a very good article and that is what I did. The foods I mentioned above are low carbs and fats. The dog really should not be on kibble.

[weezerweeks]

That sounds great my YORKIES went from 8 to 6.5 in a month. I also used the solid gold supplement. The canned foods that I use are wellness stews, go fit, simply nourish and all canned that are below average in carbs and below or near average in fat. They will do great with the diet change. Good luck

[weezerweeks]

You need to get ur dogs off kibble and onto canned. They need moisture and low carbs. There’s an article from the college in Minnesota that specializes in the stones but I can’t find it. I remember in the article it was all about the diet. My yorkie had the crystals and no infection. I put him on canned food that was low in carbs and it work. I even added water to the canned. They need lots of water to wash them out. I would not use the science diet that my vet recommended. They need a diet with more acidity and less alkalinity.

[Dori]

Hi John. Firstly I just wanted to post about Marie’s suggestions. She want be upset with me as she’s a friend of mine and is fabulous at helping others with their canines.

California Naturals does have a Kangaroo grain free but the protein is incredibly low. 21 % to AAFCO standards.

Natures Logic Rabbit contains turkey meal, chicken fat, chicken liver, dried egg product and egg shells (for calcium).

Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance (their grain free line) is freeze dried food. Their foods that do not have any poultry or beef are: Rabbit, Goat and Lamb. (Be forewarned…fairly large poops on Grandma Lucy’s but it does have a good reputation with a lot of feeders).

On to the questions you just asked of me. Since you are already feeding your dogs a raw diet, transitioning to a commercial raw diet will be very easy for you and your dogs if, in fact, that is the route you want to take. Transitioning to raw is much simpler and quicker especially with dogs that are already eating raw. Also because you already feed grain free that will make it a bit easier as their guts are in better and healthier conditions than dogs fed their entire lives on foods that contain massive amounts of carbs and lower quality foods. Now, I’m assuming at this point that the only known allergens are poultry and beef. I would stay away from any and all poultry (all fowl….anything with feathers). Since you say that Bella reacted violently to Bison after only a few hours you’ll be able to tell fairly quickly if a new food is going to bother her. Typically when I first started out with rotation feeding I could tell within 3 days how Katie was doing on it. If she was going to have loose stools or vomitting, scratching, gas, bad breath and everything else that goes along with food sensitivities it would happen fairly quickly so I stopped feeding that food and went on to the next. In your case I would probably tell you to start with one food and if they do well on it then feed only that food for two or three months just to give their guts a bit more healing time and “detoxing” as it’s called. At that time you will already have bought the next food you want to try within that brand if there is another protein without any allergens that your dogs may have. If that brand doesn’t, then move on to the next brand. If all goes well I would then feed that food and start looking for the next protein within that brand you want to try. Every time you are done with one bag you move on to the next. Every time with a different protein within the same brand. Keep a detailed list of the foods you have tried and what, if any, reactions they had. Once you’ve exhausted the different proteins in your first brand then you move on to the next brand and start rotating through their proteins that your dogs can eat. Then you move on to the next brand. Before you know it you may be able to have 4 or 5 foods that your dogs can eat and do well on. You can then continue to rotate within these brands and proteins every time you have to buy a bag of food. You can then start rotating with the different foods you have in the freezer every day, every couple of days, every meal as I do, whatever. I rotate as often as I do because Katie can’t tolerate anything for more than a meal or two. She probably can at this point but since I’ve been doing it this way for so long and they’re all just fine with it and because I wouldn’t eat the same thing for breakfast and dinner I figure why should they. I also can’t afford for her to become allergic to anything more than she already is. In rotating foods if some ingredient bothers her a little or there is a pro-inflammatory ingredient in the food (which I try my best to avoid but not always possible) then she’s only getting it for one meal. Rotating foods for all dogs is, in my opinion, the healthiest way to feed canines but especially for canines with food intolerances.

Please keep in mind that the log (list) is very very important. In keeping a list it will also better inform you if your dog is having an issue with the protein or is it another ingredient in the food. If you feed rabbit and Bella has issues with it and then you move on to goat and the same thing happens, then you have to compare the ingredient labels of both those foods and see what other ingredients do both foods have in common other than the protein. When starting to gather foods for dogs with allergies it’s easy to assume that it’s the labeled protein in the food and keep moving from food to food thinking your dog is intolerant of every single protein. Typically that’s not the case. It’s that we forgot that they could be allergic or intolerant of any other ingredient in the foods. So it’s important…..keep a log of foods you feed and the ingredients in the foods. You can print out the ingredient list from their web sites or you can take a picture of the ingredient label on the bag itself for reference purposes.

“Toppers” by the way is just a term that’s used meaning anything that you would put on top of the food you already have in their bowl. I would suggest you not use any of them at all until you have some foods that you can easily feed to your dogs with no allergy symptoms. You’ll confuse the issue if you start adding other things. You won’t know which or what is causing the symptoms. I do add things to my dogs foods but I did not in the beginning. Had to find the foods first. Then started adding little things to see what the affect would be.

Plain Kefir (you can buy it in grocery stores) acts like plain yogurt in that it contains friendly “probiotic” bacteria that helps the gut. I will add here that my allergy girl, Katie, cannot have kefir, yogurt or cheese. Actually I’ve yet to find a probiotic that doesn’t contain something (yeast, or whatever) that she doesn’t have issues with. She’s too intolerant of them and the craziness starts all over again. Not saying that your dogs will react, but owners of dogs with food sensitivities have to be very careful of every single thing that eat. Their immune systems are pretty much in a weakened state especially until their immune system improves on better foods, less toxins and carbs to deal with. 70% of the immune system is in the gut.

Allergy symptoms can be skin issues and/or digestive issues as is the case with Katie. Once I cleared up all her food issues her digestive and skin issues all disappeared.

Once on line please check out all pro-inflammatory foods, fruits and veggies. Allergies are an inflammatory based issue so you need to avoid those foods as best you can. It’s not always easy to eliminate each and every single one but do your best to avoid as much as possible. That’s also a good reason for rotation. If one of your foods does have pro-inflammatory ingredients your dog will not be getting them for too long a time.

If you find, eventually, that your dogs are not allergic to sardines then you can give them sardines packed in water with no salt added (canned in the grocery store) two or three times a week (as a “topper”) on top or mixed in with the food in their bowls. Sardines are an excellent form of Omega 3 which most foods are lacking. Most foods have plenty of Omega 6’s and not enough Omega 3’s to balance them out. That is true most especially in kibble foods. On the days that I don’t give my dogs sardines I keep a bottle refrigerated of Nature’s Logic Sardine oil. Oils go rancid fairly quickly so it’s best kept refrigerated and also says it on the bottle I believe. Anyway, once I’ve put their meals in their bowls, and on the days I don’t add sardines, I splash a little of the sardine oil on top of their food in their bowls and promptly put the bottle back in fridge and immediately give the dogs their bowls of food. I believe the oil has the dosing on the bottle. Please do not give your dogs salmon oil as we already know that they had issues with the salmon food. Also, salmon and tuna have the most amount of mercury in them due to their long lives. I don’t feed either because of those reasons. Sardines and krill have the least as they have very short lives and very short digestive tracks.

Just for your info I realize that I didn’t tell you what type of dogs I have or anything other than Katie’s allergies. So, Hannah (my avatar) is my 15 1/2 year old Maltese. Katie is my 5 1/2 year old Maltipoo and Lola is my 5 1/2 year old Yorkipoo.

One more thing. I no longer have my dogs vaccinated. I do the titers on the core vaccines. Rabies vaccine in my area is only required every three years. Though recently I’ve learned that the county I live in will accept rabies titers. Very few counties in the country are on board with titers for rabies. I don’t believe that any dog should be vaccinated unnecessarily. Dogs with allergies shouldn’t be vaccinated. Of course, I am in favor of doing all the initial puppy vaccinations spaced out as they should be. Each vaccine should be done separately and not the three in one type. It’s too much of an overload on their systems. After those initially puppy shots which, if memory serves me, ends when they are about a year old. After that having your vet do titers to check their antibodies to the core illnesses will let you know when and if they have to be vaccinated again.

[GSDsForever]

But you started this with a concern for digestibility, good absorption of nutrients, stool size, and gas. So I wanted to comment on that.

“I don’t know if having more animal protein versus plant protein would help her digest the nutrients and poop/have gas less?”

In short, no. It is the quality of the individual ingredients, what they are and their grade, that affect digestibility as they go into a formula. You’re also playing a balancing game with some ingredients, between rich in nutrients and greater digestibility. From there, processing matters. It can affect overall digestibility and preservation of nutrients. Finally freshness of ingredients going into the formula and from date of manufacture to purchase and use are very important.

I would highly recommend calling the company of the the foods you’re considering, as well as the one you’ve been feeding (Infinia) and asking for Total Dry Matter Digestibility, plus digestibility of protein, fat, and carbs.

The Infinia is rather low in protein, lower than I personally would feel comfortable feeding. But that isn’t the problem when looking at nutrient absorption and digestibility. But when the protein IS very low, then it becomes even more critical to ensure that it is very high quality and highly digested.

Since Infinia Holistic Salmon & Sweet Potato’s primary ingredients are ones that look good and CAN be highly digestible . . .

Salmon, Menhaden fish meal, sweet potatoes, potatoes

it may the grade of ingredients and/or processing that is problematic.

Fish meal, for example, comes in MANY different grades at VERY different price points to pet food companies. It can be very high ash & bones, leftover carcass material or low ash/high protein & high digestibility and come from good cuts included or whole fish with most bone filtered out, which costs the company considerably more and is harder to source. It also, by AAFCO definition, can be stripped of its oil (which is sold separately at profit, rather than going into the food) or have those precious Omega 3s left in. This formula appears to be very low in Omega 3, particularly for a fish formula, and even though it has been already boosted by plant oil (Canola). Reasons for fish formulas to be low in Omega 3 tend to be the meal has been stripped of its oils and/or use of farmed salmon. Salmon varieties also range greatly in Omega 3 content!

Canola oil is not going to be as digestible and its nutrients absorbed well in order to be used by your dog vs., say, salmon oil or an animal fat. (I personally don’t like canola oil anyway, as it’s not a very clean ingredient. In commercial use, it is generally high heat and chemical processed, damaged, and and contaminated.) Potatoes, sweet potatoes can include skins or not, etc. affecting digestibility and stool volume.

Foods cooked for less time and at lower temperatures preserve more nutrients. And gentle cooking both increases digestibility and nutrient absorbability in ingredients and nutrients AND decreases them compared to raw, depending on the ingredient or nutrient.

Consider how fresh the ingredients are, how fresh from date of manufacture, how it was stored and transported prior to getting to you, and how properly sealed the bags are. (From there, you must also store foods properly.) Actually smell the food.

But just to give you an example of how you can never tell with things like digestibility from the price and marketing/popularity of a product or just looking at the ingredient list of a “better” brand — Orijen’s 6 Fish formula has a pretty poor overall dry matter digestibility for a premium brand and is in fact the lowest among their formulas. It’s also lower than the cheap bulk bags from Costco, Nature’s Domain (by Diamond).

[weezerweeks]

Dori what freezedried foods do you use? I know your babies are small like Bailey. He did not like the honest kitchen. I tried him on the Zeal because it was low in fats and carbs and he wouldn’t eat it. One of the few foods he has refused. I like Dr. Harveys because it’s low in fat and carbs. He’s on the grain free chicken now and he’s had the tripe. Loves them both. Thanks

[jgr789]

When my dog was first diagnosed I used a combination of the prescription food W/D with mostly Wellness Core Reduced Fat and later switched to Royal Canine. After a couple of years she started having appetite and gastro problems caused by pancreatitis and we tried over thirty different high end low fat, low carb foods mostly purchased from Chewy.com because they are so great with customer service but in her final days we used Flint River Senior. They have several different food mixes and you can get samples too. Also very good customer service.

Good luck with the challenges of diabetes and if you aren’t already familiar, you should definitely go to the k9diabetes website and join the forum. Those people are the most amazing group and helped me through a multitude of concerns.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by jgr789. Reason: Added information

[pugmomsandy]

Tiki has grain. Gourmet carnivore is grain free. And their info on the Tiki Dog recipes not only says Low Grain, but for some reason it also says Zero Carbs even though they have brown rice and sweet potato.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by pugmomsandy.