As far as I know about Orijen, their large breed puppy formula is safe since they reformulated it a few years ago
Hi Chris,
I climbed on the VeRUs pet food bandwagon when they had a person contact me and they sent me actual samples of their food (instead of coupons). I have had FANTASTIC results from feeding my dogs their foods.
Neither of my dogs is a puppy anymore. However, VeRUS HAS a large breed puppy formula in addition to their regular puppy formula. You can contact them via their website. They have a lot of info there and they will answer your questions, as well. Their website is veruspetfoods.com
They’ve never had a recall, either. It’s a great company with great products.
Hi Chris-
I can see why Bully Max has it’s appeal, as it is marketed as a food specificially for “Bully Breeds”. Problem with that food is the same problem as all other breed specific foods. Not enough is known about each individual breeds dietary needs currently for there to be a basis for breed specific nutrition. Right now the best thing to focus on (especially with how some of these bullies are bred) is proper growth.
Many vet’s feel that a dog should be fed a food specific to it’s life stage and not an all life stages food. Personally, I don’t know that there is enough or any research out there to indicate that an all life stages diet is inappropriate or worse than a growth diet. However it is important that the formula be safe for a large breed puppy. Any time you are questioning if the diet is safe, you need to email the company and request a nutrient anaylsis of the formula in question. You then need to take the numbers they give you for the calcium and phosphorus and the kcals/kg and input them into this tool
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
If the diet exceeds a 1.5:1 ca/phos ratio and a 3g/1000kcals ratio, it is too high and inappropriate for your bully.
Hey, new here and new to larger breed dogs. I just got an American Bully, she is 8 weeks. Will probably be about 60lbs full size, maybe a little more. I really want to stay with a 5-star brand. I know a lot of people ask what the best for my (dog breed here) and there isnt a clear cut answer as all dogs are different, but would like maybe 3 recommendations to try out before just picking and buying at these price tags.
I’ve seen a few good things about Bully Max High Performance, but mostly from their website and (what I assume) affiliated sites. It also is pretty new and is an “all-stage” type of food. Maybe its just my misconception but I would think a true “puppy” blend and even better “large puppy” blend would be best depending on the brand.
I have also seen great things about Orijen which they have a “large puppy” blend and am leaning towards it as of now, partially for that reason.
Any other suggestions and also am I truly just wrong, about the “all-stages” vs “puppy” blends.
I switched from Blue Wilderness Rocky Mountain Red Meat for Large Breeds to Orijen Red Regional about 3 months ago. My GSD was fine with it, but my Husky/Shepard/Border Mix wasn’t thrilled. I switched to the Orijen Tundra. Mr. Picky loves it. (There’s no chicken.) When we first brought the GSD home from the animal shelter, I did notice loose stools the first couple of months which I figured was from the change to the Blue Wilderness and better quality diet. (We also feed each a half can of Holistic Select Beef and Duck Pate mixed with a cup of kibble). Both my dogs are now doing well on the Orijen Tundra. I never had problems with the Blue Wilderness Rocky Moutain Red Meat, but had always wanted to switch it up. My black lab who passed away last year however, refused anything but the Blue Wilderness for Large Breeds.
Be careful with just following the feeding guidelines on commercial foods vs by calorie and individual monitoring of your dog’s body condition scoring/needs — and Ziwi Peak if that’s what you feed.
While many kibbles tend to overestimate calorie needs/cups to feed, I’ve found many raw and freeze dried or dehydrated ones tend to vastly underestimate/recommend. I suspect this is true for the latter because the companies are aware that their products can seem exorbitant, even cost prohibitive for larger dogs. In particular, I’ve had this discussion with Ziwipeak, because their amounts to feed/calories recommended made absolutely no sense for my dog (or breed generally, esp if working).
I’m far from a raw diet (various styles) expert, but from experience with homemade/home prepared with fresh foods and balanced . . . could you not simply boost the fat content by adding from a wholesome source yourself?
Most healthy dogs can do quite well on higher fat diets (as shown by veterinary nutrition research on dogs and wildlife research).
Hi Brandon. Have you had a chance to look through the 4 and 5 star foods here? Checked them out locally/via online etailers (or direct buy), asked for samples?
What have you tried so far? Do you have brands in mind?
I don’t think there’s one best dog food out there for all dogs (and if someone tells you there is, be very suspicious! š ). Neither is that commonly suggested by longtime posters here.
Rather, we can often tell you what has worked for our dogs and why, and what we look for and value in feeding. All other things being equal (but that is a BIG caveat), ideally I personally prefer a well-designed homemade diet of fresh foods with high quality ingredients.
If a kibble, I have brands I prefer and brands I don’t for a number of reasons. But I have a GSD. And, honestly, I’ve fostered a Siberian mix, and found her diet, exercise needs, training needs very different from GSDs and tending-herding breeds — more familiar to me.
As far as pickiness goes, while the samples should help, in a medium to large (or giant) breed, I don’t allow pickiness. I take into account preferences, but I don’t let my dogs get super fussy/demanding and dictate what I feed (without good cause . . . like cancer) and don’t recommend it. Feed 2-3 x day and pick up the bowl after 10-15 minutes.
Does your pup put on weight easily or stay lean?
I have a Great Dane, my second one, and they eat more and more food until they reach a certain age and weight then yes they start to eat less and less because they are not growing any more. I fed her Orijen Puppy Large breed and use the chart on the back of the bag to help determine how much to feed her based on her current weight, current age, and what she should weigh in the future.
Hi Lacey-
I kind of hate to complicate things given the title of your post, but your 13 week old giant breed has very specific dietary needs while he is growing that differ greatly from your 16 year old Chihuahua.
Large and giant dogs that will mature to over 50lbs are at high risk for bone growth disorders due not only to genetics, but improper nutrition during growth. Large breed puppies have difficulty absorbing calcium correctly. They require a food that has a controlled level of calcium to help them grow slowly. Most of the time a food labeled for “large breed puppies” will meet those requirements…sometimes they do not. Diamond Naturals does have a large breed puppy formula that is All Life Stages, so your Chihuahua could eat it, however some small dogs are sensitive to kibble size so you would have to get a bag and test it out.
Homecooking is not a bad idea, however the diets have to be properly balanced and when adding the challenge of owning a giant breed puppy, many will advise that a commercial diet that meets AAFCO should be fed during growth to make sure the dog is recieving proper nutrition. When your giant breed pup reaches adulthood you could begin researching homecooked meals. BalanceIt.com is a good place to start.
My husband and I just adopted the sweetest 8 year old doberman mix from the SPCA. She is our first dog together and she is heart worm positive (stage II). We live in Texas and half of the dogs at the shelter were HW +. We didn’t really know much about heart worms so we talked to the shelter employee. They seemed very knowledgeable and said that they pay for the HW treatment if we go to one of their partnered vets. They made it sound like an easy treatment and the biggest thing was restricting activity for one month after the first injection.
We saw the vet today and here is the treatment:
-3 months of heart guard doses prior to the first injection.
-1 month doxycycline before the first injection
-first injection of imiticide. She would be sedated and spend the night at the vets. They’d also give a steroid injection.
-She’d come home and need to be on “bedrest” for 30 days. Only going out of her crate to the rest room on a leash.
-After 30 days she’d go back to the vet and stay a few days where she’d get the final 2 injections. Then its complete. No other mention of an additional 30 days bedrest.
A few things concern me now. First, the vet said that our dog would be the oldest dog he has done the treatment for. He doesn’t anticipate any issues but things can always happen unexpectedly. Secondly, after looking more into the imiticide it looks like quite the potent drug and I’m frightened by it.
Currently she had one dose of heart guard at the shelter so she has at least a two month waiting period before her first injection. She is on the doxycycline now due to her biting at her stomach. The vet suspects a possible UTI and this should clear it up. I asked if she would need a second 30 day antibiotic the month before the injection and they said no.
This is our first dog so I wanted to ask people who have more experience with them what they would do. Our dog is already 8 and is a large breed girl. We knew by adopting her we’d probably only have a few years with her. If it were your dog, would you put her through these treatments? I don’t want the time she spends with us to be spent in pain.
Thanks for any insight!
Hi all – I wanted to chime in on the fats/protein issue. My dog has a very sensitive stomach and gets sick on food that is too fatty. Sick as in up-chucking. I have to be really careful with all dog foods, even dry foods. My doggy baby is a GSD and is about 18 m-o. I read a lot of this thread from the more recent posts (this year & last) and did a lot of research. I contact several pet food companies and asked for samples and usually just got auto-email coupons for a few dollars off. I’m going to get on the Verus bandwagon with Susan. Their VP responded to my contact! Yes, they’re a small company but I like that they care enough about dogs to ask questions and communicate. I’m feeding the Verus large breed puppy food & will for a few more months. Around the end of the year I will start switching over to an adult Verus formula. I know if I have questions or issues, I can contact the people at Verus and get answers. That’s important to me.
Hi Carol-
If you are one of our customers, I’d be happy to have you come in, introduce yourself and talk about which food would work the best for your large breed puppy. We carry a good variety of quality foods.
I got a puppy about a little over a week ago, but I haven’t had a dog in 10+ years. I use to feed my old dog Blue Buffalo and so that’s what I got my new puppy (Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy). About 4 days later he stopped eating all of his food and he would literally turn his nose up at it. He wasn’t throwing up, nor did he have diarrhea (I suspected he just didn’t like his food). So I joined this site and started doing a ton of research. I got a 5lbs bag of Wellness Core Puppy (which he absolutely loves) and the only way he will eat the Blue Buffalo food is if I mix it in with the Wellness. In terms of Blue Buffalo, I was shocked that they admitted to lying about ingredients, have been outsourcing certain ingredients and has been having recalls. I want the best for my puppy, but is Blue Buffalo a brand I can trust or has it just gone downhill? I think eventually I want him on just Wellness which seems pretty good, or is there something else I should be giving him?
Word of warning when recommending Taste of the Wild to someone with a large breed puppy…only their two puppy formulas are safe for a growing large breed. Just because it says all life stages and can be fed to a small or medium size dog doesn’t mean it’s safe for a large breed.
Hi Norman-
At 9 months old, your puppy is not ready to be eating an adult maintenance formula because she is a large breed. Large breed puppies require a very specific diet to help reduce their risk for orthopedic disorders. Adult maintenance formulas are far too high in calcium for a large breed puppy.
You could either try the puppy formula of the Royal Canin Breed Specific formulas if you are interested in staying with RC or the Maxi Puppy formula. You may also look into Purina Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. I find Pro Plan has very good digestability.
Vets get very little nutritional education. You need to be careful what you feed a large breed puppy; go to the Diet & Health issues forum here and read the stickie on top, highlighted in yellow, on what is appropriate foods for large breed puppies. I’m not sure if it’s “too late” or not.
I would not feed anything by Blue Buffalo; they’ve had their share of problems.
You can try a spoonful of canned pumpkin (the one without the spices) while you transition. Also, over feeding can be a cause.
Try blue buffalo, they have their freedom and basics line. Both are grain free. They have ones for large breed as well. Petsmart usually carries a large selection of blue buffalo food. I personally use blue buffalo basics large breed dry food. It has worked great. It leveled out both of my dogs digestive issues. I had gone through several different types of food and once I got on them on blue buffalo everything leveled out nicely. Hope this helps you with your pup.
I was actually going to suggest Nulo to you however I saw it had turkey meal in it and you were wanting to avoid it. It is safe for large breed puppy. I was able to get the nutrient anaylsis from the rep (we carry Nulo at my work).
so in searching I see a brand Nulo that people mention. I like the ingredient list on the salmon and pea puppy but it does not say that it is specific to large breeds?? any one know anything about them. also don’t have the full analysis on website. I need to call them unless someone here knows about them. I am just not real comfortable with the company that makes TOTW, Pitluv. Who knew finding a decent food for my 10 month pup would be so complicated lol.
No problem haha LBP stands for large breed puppy
Personally what I would do if you are ever questioning why a company chooses to use certain ingredients, is either call or email and ask them about it specficially. If you aren’t happy with the answer they give you or you feel like they are making excuses move on to another food.
based on the calcium and phos and other information, I think I am ordering Fromm Heartland Gold Large Breed Puppy
I have been feeding my 12 week yellow lab Dick VanPats Natural Balance. She is clearly gaining a bit too much weight, but this is likely due to my portions being too high. However, after doing research here I do want to change food. I am torn between the following:
Fromm – Heartland Gold Large Breed Grain Free Puppy
Fromm – Gold Hollistic Large Breed Puppy
Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy
Wellness Large Breed Complete Health Puppy
The chart I saw posted early in this thread seems to only one of these Wellness listed, but not sure which one it refer to. Also, the Fromm listed in the calcium chart has the Fromm Four Star Nutritionals, but not the puppy specific formulas. Has the chart been updated? Is there a better choice for my lab for her hips? Does this mean only the Fromm and Wellness listed in the chart has the recommended balance of calcium ideal for my late breed?
Thanks in advance
Thank you pitluv so I notice the ones you recommend but I need one without chicken or turkey and large breed puppy that seems hard to find unless I am not seeing all.
Thank you
Hi Debbie-
This is the tool that we all use to calculate ca/phos ratios and ca/calorie ratios
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
When I use the numbers you gave me for Nutro Natural Choice LID Lamb and Rice this is what the calculator tells me
Calculate
Calcium = 4.0 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.2 to 1
Safe, but…approaching the safe upper limit of 4.5g/1000 kcals for the ca/calorie ratio
You do not have to feed her for a working dog since she is not and that would cause her to lose too much weight, but you always want to make sure she does not get overweight.
I would transition from Wellness Large Breed Puppy.
I like:
– Wellness TruFood Puppy
– Zignature Zssential
– Wellness Core Puppy Formula
– Nulo Freestyle Puppy Salmon and Peas
– Nulo Medal Series Puppy Chicken and Sweet Potato
– Weruva
– Wellness Core Reduced Fat
It’s tricky with the Wellness brand because not all of their formulas are created equal as far as quality.
I have had great success with Annamaet’s Grain Free Lean Low Fat Formula.
I would definitely avoid Hill’s Science Diet Adult Perfect Weight.
Hello all I have a almost 9 month old golden doodle. I have fed her as a large breed as that was what I was told to do. she is suppose to be more on the medium size with a max weight of 45 lbs. I have been feeding her nutro limited ingredient lamb and rice formula. she has issues with chicken. I am not sure of the ratio for the calcium and phosperus I have seen here. where is the place I could enter that info and figure it out? she has done well on this food but I want to make sure I am giving her the best for her. she is not a great eater. usually eats later in the day. I like the idea of topping with tripett so I am def going to order that. I just need to know about the calcium and anything else I should be concerned with. My belief is I don’t need to feed her like a working farm dog cause she is just a family pet.
the max calcium currently is 1.50 phos is max 1.30
calorie content is 3760kcal/kg
I am a new pet owner haven’t had a dog since I was a kid. I appreciate any advice.
Debbie
You’re very welcome. Just goes to show you never trust the bag. Orijen large breed puppy was the same way until they reformulated it.
@goldenstar
I got an email back from Holistic Select regarding the Large & Giant Breed Puppy formula. When I used the numbers they gave me and put them into the calculator tool on here this is what I got
Calcium = 6.8 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1
WAY too high…
Posting this 2013 article from DVM DACVN* (board certified veterinary nutritionist) Susan Wynn, in case it hasn’t already been posted or read:
(The whole website page has food information, discussion, recommendations for feeding large breed puppies. But scroll to the very bottom for the Susan Wynn vet journal article.)
Why choose a large breed puppy food?
Or click on these to read only Wynn’s article:
http://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/food-lg-breed-1.jpg
http://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/food-lg-breed-2.jpg
http://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/food-lg-breed-3.jpg
http://valorgoldens.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/food-lg-breed-4.jpg
*double board certified
-
This reply was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by
GSDsForever.
Thank you pitluv. I think you and I are pretty much in sync on this topic. I have many intact Saints as well as not intact saints and they can all eat the higher calorie and fat foods. In fact my 2 older Saints (almost 10) are doing fine without any real adjustment to their diet. The only one I have had to adjust my regular diet for is a 8-year-old spayed girl who started gaining weight and I adjusted her portion down a small bit and she is doing good with her weight now.
I just was wondering if there are any different ideas or beliefs that I may have missed. My guys all eat a RAW diet designed and tested to meet the needs of large/giant breed dogs. It is my own formula (with vet, nutritionist and other breeder input) and I just thought I would see if maybe there was anything else I should be considering in my formula that I might have missed. Anyway, thanks for your input and information.
Hi again Jennifer-
As far as I know, there are no actual studies or research on a nutrient profile specificially for large and giant breed adult dogs. Each company kind of just decides what a large and giant breed adult formula should look like. Most of the time what that formulation looks is lower protein, lower fat and lower calories to try to keep weight off them. For the most part I can agree with that formulation, though personally because I have unaltered dogs I find I can feed them higher calorie, higher fat foods (but just feed them for a less active dog) and they don’t gain weight.
Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN recommends switching a large/giant breed puppy to a weight management or “light” formula once they hit maturity to keep weight off them, but I personally don’t feel a weight loss formula is needed to keep them lean, though I’m sure some may benefit from it for various reasons.
Ok, so I have Saint Bernards and have raised and loved this breed for many many years. I am well aware of the recommended kcal/calcium and phosphorus recommendations for Large/Giant breed puppies but am wondering if there are any studies, reports or a general consensus on food for Large/Giant breed ADULT dogs? I know what the AAFCO requirements are but these have A LOT of wiggle room and just wonder if folks with large/giant breed dogs are looking for anything in particular when deciding on what food is best for the gentle giants.
-
This topic was modified 9 years, 10 months ago by
Jennifer H.
Andrea,
While you’re researching puppy foods, please check out VeRUS. I have been feeding my dogs this food (adult formulas) for about 6 months and it has made a HUGE difference in them! They have a large breed puppy formula, they have canned foods, they supplements. If you fill out their contact form, someone will get in touch with you and ask/answer questions before sending samples. The samples are great. At least you’ll have something to try that won’t cost you anything.
Hi Andrea-
Welcome and congrats! I love Cane Corso’s! That is the next breed I plan on owning š
I can certainly understand how crazy you must feel right now worrying about the best food to feed him. There are so many choices now for large/giant breed puppy foods, how can you possibly pick a best one?
Obviously calcium levels are of upmost importance, but so are other things like digestability, palatability, bioavailablity just to name a few. Also because growth for large and giant breeds is such an important and critical time in their life, I do prefer (but am not commited to) brands that have nutritionists staffed or consult with nutritionists to forumlate the food. Since I’m relying on this food to provide everything for my puppy in the proper amounts, I place value on that. Most of the companies that do that are larger companies that have more resources because of more money. I do understand however, that many people do not feel comfortable using brands of food from larger companies like Purina and Hill’s. A food I would highly consider looking into if you do not want to use a product from Purina or Hill’s is Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free). It is formulated by a vet and a veterinary nutritionist and has gone through feeding trials. Another brand I also really like is NutriSource because of it’s high digestability and palatability.
Another huge thing that people overlook with growing large breed puppies is by all means keep them lean! It keeps stress off the joints and growing bones and can also greatly help reduce the risk for bone disorders during growth and later in life. You can use the Purina Body Condition Score to access his weight and make sure he is staying at a 4/9.
Best of luck! Post some pictures if you can when you get him!
Andrea,
I do not know what page but start going backwards thru the pages in this thread & look for the list of appropriate foods for large breed puppies.
I personally wouldn’t feed a Blue product. Choose a food from the list; you can order from Chewy dot com which is a great place to order pet supplies from. I’d leave your pup n the food from the breeder for a week or so then transition.
Anonymously,
I have to wonder about your source for that info on joint disorders being no different in dogs neutered and spayed early. I do not see any peer reviewed scientific articles associated with those findings. The UC Davis study is very extensive and very thorough, and has clearly shown that the younger a dog is sterilized, particularly German Shepherds and Golden Retrievers (which likely is replicated in most large and giant breeds), the greater the incidence of hip and elbow dysplasia, along with ligament disorders. This risk declines after 1 year old, but continues to remain increased through life, although the greatest decrease in neutered dogs is after the epiphyseal plates (growth plates) have fully fused… and it is for this reason that many breeders of large dogs ARE requiring clients to wait until the dog is at least 18 months old before any spaying or neutering (which includes my own contract). Given the close relationship of the Shiloh Shepherd to the German Shepherd, I have paid very careful attention to all of these studies in making my choices…. in particular because I DO need a structurally sound dog to help me in the form of mobility support as a service dog. I also chose the Shiloh (and his breeder) due to the fact that there are extensive records of PennHip and OFA tests going back 13 generations, with only those with the most excellent scores being permitted to breed.
Again, it is a personal choice, but given how debilitating the dysplasias are, I feel it better to wait. Galen will still be neutered, with the associated increased life span, but it won’t be done pediatrically. In addition, while mammary tumors are more common in un-spayed females, many other cancers are actually LESS prevalent among intact dogs. The leading causes of premature death for unneutered dogs involve accidents, often the result of roaming. Galen has no tendency toward roaming and has a perfect recall, so that is not a concern of mine.
I also have worked as a vet tech and seen the various pros and cons in the veterinary practice, but rather than having that influence my decision, I based my choice on the current research, my particular dog, and my particular circumstances. It may be fine to neuter smaller dogs earlier, for their joints have far less weight bearing, and those dogs tend to reach adult maturity sooner, with closed growth plates.
Hi pitluv…
Did you ever find out if Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy food’s calcium and cal phos levels where too high? Thanks
Hi Kenneth-
Welcome to the forums. Hound Dog Mom hasn’t been able to post on here in quite some time due to school, so I don’t know that you’ll ever hear back from her. I can however, try to help.
Here is 2 articles from DFA that may help you understand large breed puppies and choosing a dog food a little better:
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
/choosing-dog-food/brand-guidelines/
It is interesting that when you read through the second link the rating that Pro Plan recieves does not reflect those criteria that Mike has outlined. In fact Pro Plan makes a excellent choice when using those 9 tips. Another thing to be mentioned is that Purina is one of 2 companies that are the leaders in research for large breed puppy nutrition and growth. While some may choose other brands or diets other than kibble, many show dogs are fed Pro Plan as well. Personally, I see no reason to switch simply because this website rates it 2.5 stars, especially since you’ve noted your dog is doing quite well on it.
However, if you are insistant, I would highly recommend looking at Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free one). It is formulated by both a vet and a nutritionist and has gone through AAFCO feeding trials and if star rating is of that much concern, it is rated 4 stars.
Hound Dog Mom: Thank you for all of the advice regarding food choices for large breeds. I purchased my English Style Lab from a Vet, Breeder and competitor of show quality dogs. My wife and I just wanted a family companion, couch potato to replace our Lab we lost at 9.5 years to cancer. The breeder fed all of her dogs Pro Plan and we have kept Earl on Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. He is currently 6 months old and shows no negative symptoms. However, I am not happy to learn this site (which I joined because I want to be informed) rates Pro Plan at 2.5 stars.
A small Pet Store Chain just opened a branch store a couple of miles away from where we live. The sell many of the foods that are rated 4+ Stars on this site so I will be changing Earl’s Food Soon.
Since Earl is not experiencing any problems with his current food what should I look for in determining the best food to switch him to? I know I will need to blend the new food with the old for a few days. He currently does not scratch, has no ear infections and has relatively small stools. So, I want to change to a higher rated food but I don’t want to create any issues for Earl.
Please express advice and opinions. I am leaning toward Fromm Dry Foods!
Thanks,
Ken
Anonymously, I do not board my dogs or my cat. I’m not here, nor is anyone else, to defend their choices about castrating their dog. I’m here to talk about and offer advice on large breed puppy nutrition. That’s it.
Anonymously,
While that may be so for smaller dogs, with large and giant breeds it is now recommended to wait until at least 18 months-2 years of age to ensure the growth plates have fully fused. If you looked at the research, all dogs neutered prior to a year old had significant increases in hip and elbow dysplasia, and it was still increased although to a lesser extent, in dogs neutered below 2 years of age. I might have done it at 18 months for Galen, but since he’s small for a Shiloh Shepherd and still is showing some signs of gaining in height, I’ve chosen to wait an extra 6 months until after he’s 2. At the same time, I’ll be getting him preventative gastropexy to prevent GDV (Gastric Dilation volvulus, a condition commonly known as bloat and quite deadly), to ensure his risk is significantly lowered for that. Fortunately his VPI/Nationwide insurance now has a plan that covers preventative gastropexy, the only plan I know of that actually does cover it! The biggest key, though, is closure of the epiphyseal plates (growth plates).
As I stated, it is a matter of weighing benefits vs. risks as to whether to neuter your dogs early on not. In large and giant breeds, though, there is a SIGNIFICANT increase in problems with joint issues in dogs neutered young, before their growth plates fuse. https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/early-neutering-poses-health-risks-german-shepherd-dogs-study-finds/ Galen has showed ZERO adverse behaviors being intact, even in boarding or daycare. Given that he is training as a service dog, and one for mobility support at that, I CANNOT have the increased risk for hip or elbow dysplasia. Moreover, my contract with his breeder clearly states not to neuter early. In my particular case the benefits of waiting outweigh any risks. And while there will always be outliers, research has shown that in cryptorchid dogs, the risk for testicular cancer does not increase until after age 3. Also, these risks may be a bit different for small dogs, (which was the dog mentioned by “anonymously”), given that they tend to mature at a younger age. We are specifically talking about large breeds here, ones prone to bone growth disorders and joint problems.
Our 8 year old Lab was displaying some symptoms of there being a female in heat near by, however out of 3 intact males in the house/property he was the only one, so we’re still not sure what it was. Nothing as extreme as you are describing though.
I don’t use holistic or homeopathic vet’s or medicine. My allopathic vet was the one who suggested waiting til he was done growing to neuter. Spay and neuter is a very personal decision. We made the decision not to neuter our pitbull after months of going back and forth and debating on if it was the right choice for him and us. We are very happy with our choice and I don’t let anyone make me feel bad for it.
I value proper growth above all else for a large and giant breed dog.
Hi anonymously-
I think you might be misunderstanding what we are talking about regarding spay and neuter in large and giant breeds and/or you may be unfamiliar with how pediatric altering effects growth.
We are not talking about waiting to spay or neuter a dog at old age, we are talking about waiting until the dog’s growth plates have fully closed before spaying or neutering (which for many large and giant breed is between 18 and 24 months). It is much healthier than pediatric altering and allows the bones to grow properly.
I have a six month old English Style Male Lab. I suspect I am similar to every other member of this forum as I am interested in feeding my dog an excellent food. My local pet store carries most brands that are highly considered: Arcana, EVO, Zignature, Fromm, Blue and Natural Balance.
One store employee with two large breed dogs feeds and recommends Zignature and Fromm. The breeder I purchased my dog from feed Pro Plan Focus. Earl is doing fine on that food but it concerns me that it is not recommended at a rating of 2.5 stars on this site.
Undoubtfully, I will change the food I feed Earl. I guess I need to experiment with two or three of the brands listed above. When I run the food trials what criteria should I use to guide me to a final food selection?
Thanks,
Hi goldenstar-
Love your new avatar btw! What a cutie!
I’m personally not concerned about plant-based vs meat-based etc etc for a growing large breed puppy. That is something I would focus in on once you know he’s fully grown. I also have no problem with starting a puppy off on chicken. It is a common protein, but why introduce exotic proteins when you don’t need to? There is so much to choose from within the common proteins for variety.
If I were going to add anything at all to the diet it would be raw green tripe. However, as long as there is no bone and the chicken does not exceed 10% of the diet I don’t see the problem with that.
Circa Regal-
That is a great point you bring up and I could not agree more! We decided not to neuter either of our dogs, but even our vet warned us with our pitbull to wait until 18 months old when he was done growing.
I am absolutely a believer in not spaying or neutering early for large and giant breeds especially! It can be so devastating for their growth. Certainly though, it’s tough when you encounter a situation like yours.
Hi April-
Fromm is a good food and good company. I would choose Fromm over Taste of the Wild and Holistic Select personally, simply because of the company itself. The Heartland Gold Large Breed Puppy has a 1.1:1 calcium/phosphorus ratio and a 3g/1000kcal ratio according to the numbers I used from their website from their technical analysis, so in short, yes that food would be good to use.
Hi April-
Have you found the information on the Fromm large breed puppy food you were looking for yet? I’m “bumping” up your post to see if someone can chime in on that food in addition to the ones that Susan recommended.
Hello all, I have a 12 week old Great Dane puppy who has been through it all in his short time (parvo & severe demodex) He is well now and we are focusing on nutrition for him. It has been about a month post parvo. My issue is he is now knuckling over or, bowing at the leg on his front.
It is so bad he can’t walk very well. It seemed to start healing and then I took him out for a long walk and it worsened. Should I just keep him on bed rest? I thought exercise would help.
Here is the food he has been on so far: Orijen Puppy (1 1/2 weeks) then switched to Zignature Zssential formula (2 days – this is when he started losing his hair), Then Orijen Large Breed Puppy (only 1/2 a week). When I noticed his knuckling over I did some research and he is now on the Precise Holistic large and giant breed puppy.
I have unfortunately switched foods TOO many times b/c I thought the demodex was a food allergy and I’m scared to switch again but he is having runny diarrhea on this food – he has been on it for 4 days now. I can possibly wait it out but I have read that this is a common issue on this brand and I don’t want him to lose any more weight than he has already.
Any suggestions?
I know this is a little off topic, but I would like to posit another important factor involving proper bone and joint development in large breed dogs, and I’ll post links to the research. This involves early spaying/neutering. Research involving Golden Retrievers and German Shepherds has revealed that early spay/neuter results in SIGNIFICANT increase in joint disorders. This is something that likely applies to most, if not all large and giant breed dogs. The largest increase in these issues occurs in dogs neutered before 1-year-old, although any sterilization prior to full size does increase the incidence of hip and elbow dysplasia. Many breeders are now recommending (and some, like my Shiloh Shepherd’s breeder, require it in their contract) that dogs not be sterilized before 18 months of age. Link: Early Neutering Poses Health Risks for German Shepherd Dogs, Study Finds. This study also mentions the Golden Retriever study.
There are also additional reasons to avoid early neutering, but I won’t go into those in depth. There are some benefits to it as well, and I will never admonish a person for sterilizing their dog. It’s simply a choice that involves weighing the benefits and risks regarding the specific dog and situation… and whether there is a choice at all, given that rescues are generally neutered prior to adoption. Spaying and Neutering: New Warnings About Health Problems
In my choice, I have carefully weighed the risks and benefits in relation to my particular dog and my specific circumstances. Given that my young Shiloh Shepherd is training as a service dog, and especially because many of his tasks are mobility related, I have chosen to neuter him later, after he turns 2. I would have delayed neutering him even longer, except he has cryptorchidism (undescended testicle), which significantly increases the risk for testicular cancer if not neutered before 3 years of age.
4 months ago
