[Bobby dog]

haleycookie go straight to the source, just ask Dr. Wynn your questions. She is good about answering questions via e-mail, her blog, or FB. I don’t think she’s posted anything recently on her blog page though.

Somewhere on Dr. Wynn’s blog she explains what Vet’s take into consideration when treating pets. It seemed she mostly considered what effort the client could/would make in the treatment process. Some clients had unlimited funds, some had unlimited time, those who didn’t she carefully considered the best Rx for them. If the client wasn’t thrilled about taking time to make a homemade diet, what good is it to prescribe it? So she would recommend what the client could/would follow through with.

I don’t understand why Vets choose to be Vets rather than just buying a pet store and sell food for all those profits or “kickbacks” people insist they make. Shoot, they could wipe out their student loans in no time according to you…

As I read your post I don’t think you are referring to “kickbacks” it seems to me you are questioning the difference between cost and shelf price.

Chewy was only a few dollars less for some Rx foods I purchased over the years. I mostly chose the convenience of buying from my Vet rather than adding a shipping charge to my cost.

Please explain how Blue is a more healthy option. They are owned by General Mills. I thought you didn’t like pet food companies owned by larger corps? When they started their Rx line they were employing a nutritionist that formerly worked for Hill’s, not sure if they are still there.

If you took the time to read Dr. Wynn’s blog post she explains the value of what you consider “cheap ingredients” by what they provide in vitamins and minerals to balance the diet. She also writes when anyone has good results with a pet food they are likely to become advocates of the brand.

[Bobby dog]

haleycookie:
You often recommend Nature’s Variety to posters and are also aware that Dr. Wynn, DACVN joined the company full time early this year. By recommending NV I believe you trust them and the people they employ. Here is Dr. Wynn’s response to “kickbacks.” You’ll also find the blog post good reading.

“I continue to be amazed at the oft-quoted claim that vets get paid money to sell pet food. In any practice I’ve ever worked at (that’s about 8), the profit margin is actually LOWER on foods than on most drugs. I’m not sure why this is – it seems to be a deal that the pet food companies convinced vets to take in the early days of the relationship. A practice consultant once took me through the economics of carrying foods in my practice and convinced me that it was *costing me money* to stock them. Still, I stocked them as most vets do as a convenience for clients.

Now one of the possibilities for a source of this rumor could be staff feeding programs, where a pet food company gives veterinary employees a discount on food (they don’t get it for free). I view this as one of the benefits of working in a veterinary practice – you also get a discount on services and other products, like you would as an employee in many other types of businesses.

If your pet does really well on a pet food, well, then you become an advocate, just like people who have become advocates for other types of diets like raw diets. And if your pet does badly on a pet food, it’s up to you to recognize it.

As far as I know, the claim that vets are paid money to carry pet foods is at best, ignorance, and at worst, a malicious lie. If there are documented examples of this practice that I’ve missed in over 25 years in this business, I’d like to hear about them.” ~ Susan G. Wynn, DVM

http://vetnutrition.blogspot.com/2009/05/are-grains-all-bad.html?showComment=1301462938208#c2340306044723977976

[Bobby dog]

Nope not confused, it was entertaining reading that day for sure. But, you can also just read what you just posted regarding your belief weights and measures are opinions:

“You have a medical background yet you claim weights and measurements are opinions…” ~ B-dog

“Yes, because there is dry weight and there is liquid weight and a lot of people get them confused.” ~ anon101

[Bobby dog]

Being “confused” between wet and dry measurements is not an opinion. I hope to never run across any health care professional human or otherwise that believes such a thing.

[Bobby dog]

What results are inconclusive?

You have a medical background yet you claim weights and measurements are opinions…

[Bobby dog]

You are the only poster I have come across that finds WSAVA recs “vague and ambiguous.” Perhaps the Skeptvet can help you with your issue. As you have written before he’s good about answering questions.

[Bobby dog]

I agree, haven’t seen the Skeptvet recommend brands. What I see the Skeptvet recommend along with the Vets involved in the NM DCM research are brands that meet WSAVA recommendations.

Nutrition Resources for Pet Owners

[Bobby dog]

Hmmmmm, maybe the author of the article you copy and pasted is biased? Considering he is the owner of “Ketonatural Dogfoods” and all. Of course, you can always learn more about his pet food by joining his “academy.” I’m sure this former lawyer (4 years of practice) turned pet food entrepreneur has lots of info to share about canine health and promoting ketogenic diets for canines…

https://medium.com/@danielschulof_18279/bad-science-and-big-business-are-behind-the-biggest-pet-food-story-in-a-decade-5cdafae7be77

Who’s Behind the The Truth About Pet Cancer?

[Bobby dog]

Hi joanne l:
I totally agree, better safe than sorry. No jerky here either. There was also the huge recall that IMO didn’t happen soon enough in 2007. I will err on the side of caution in regards to the NM DCM alert.

I changed my dog’s food criteria last summer at the onset of this alert. I used to only concentrate on half of the WSAVA recs when finding a pet food. Now, it’s all or nothing. As more info is learned my current criteria could change again. For now, I’ll keep up to date on the current research and go from there.

[Bobby dog]

Here are direct quotes from the most recent FDA reports. I find more accurate info directly from the FDA, universities involved in the research, the Facebook group “Taurine-Deficient (Nutritional) Dilated Cardiomyopathy” which leading researchers in NM DCM are members, and Vet’s who are informed and up to date on the current research rather than uninformed Vet’s, pet store employees, or sites that have no one with credentials in companion animal nutrition associated with them.

“To date, the FDA has not established why certain diets may be associated with the development of DCM in some dogs. In the meantime, and before making diet changes, pet owners should work directly with their veterinarians, who may consult with a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, to determine the most appropriate diet for their pet’s specific needs.”
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/cvm-updates/fda-provides-third-status-report-investigation-potential-connection-between-certain-diets-and-cases

“At this time, we are not advising dietary changes based solely on the information we have gathered so far. If you have questions or concerns about your dog’s health or its diet, we suggest that you consult your veterinarian, who may consult a board-certified veterinary nutritionist, for individualized advice that considers your dog’s specific needs and medical history.”
https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/animal-health-literacy/questions-answers-fda-center-veterinary-medicines-investigation-possible-connection-between-diet-and

https://ccah.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/areas-study/genetics/nutritionally-mediated-dcm

Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM): Update, July 2019

As I once read, “It’s rare but it’s all fine and dandy until it’s you and your dog.”

[Bobby dog]

Ha Ha aimee, thought the same thing when I read Champion’s letter. Couldn’t agree more. The famous picture of the tobacco industry executives testifying in front of congress ran through my head!!

I fed my dog grapes when he was a puppy. I was not aware of the danger. He was never affected health wise. When learned of the dangers I immediately stopped. Never once did I think since he was not affected it’s all right to keep giving him grapes. Same thing with this NM DCM alert, I will keep posted with the current research and change my food criteria as I see necessary and/or is recommended.

[Bobby dog]

Yes, that’s wonderful it’s “more than good enough” for you. Just correcting misinformation YOU posted about Fromm’s staffing not critiquing your choices in food or a Vet. 😉

[Bobby dog]

If consultants only educated in people food production or Vets with no education in small animal nutrition is good enough for you, that’s wonderful. I am just correcting misinformation about Fromm’s staffing…

I want a company to invest back into their company, hire full-time credentialed employees educated in small animal nutrition.

[Bobby dog]

What do reviews on the BBB have to do with having full-time credentialed employees on staff? You can find complaints about anything on the Internet as you well know and have posted about before. Last defense of the indefensible, not employing full time credentialed employees maybe?

Guess what, I feed Eukenuba. I’m sure there are complaints as well as good reviews on the Internet about this kibble too. lol

WSAVA recs and AAFCO compliant foods are where I start my searches for pet food that is acceptable for me to feed my pets. No blinders on, if any fail to meet these standards I will move on, no big deal. 😉

You have been a die hard fan of several foods since you have been posting on DFA, that’s wonderful. I am just correcting misinformation posted about Fromm, you should agree with that as you seem concerned about misinformation being posted. Or, as I wrote previously maybe Fromm has since hired full-time credentialed employees to make their recipes.

[Bobby dog]

Conclusions??? They either have credentialed people on staff full time or don’t, easy peasy.

I’ve contacted them several times via phone and e-mail over the last year when I read erroneous comments such as yours about their staffing with SPECIFIC questions about full-time credentialed staff not just do you talk to/employ Vets or nutritionists. Specific questions pertaining to credentials, ACVN and/or credentialed small animal nutritionist, and full time staffing. Consulting or employing an DVM with no further education in nutrition or people educated in people food production is not enough for me. Which according to Tracy they only consult with people that are not educated in small animal nutrition.

Same response each time, no ACVN Vet or credentialed small companion animal nutritionist on staff full-time or even consulted with…LOTS of misinformation posted about Fromm by die hard fans for sure. Of course there’s always a chance within the last three weeks they did hire credentialed people to work full-time with their “Head Chef” with a chemical engineering degree…

[Bobby dog]

When did Fromm hire a full-time ACVN Vet or credentialed small companion animal nutritionist? Less than a month ago Tracy from their customer service department confirmed in writing they do not have anyone with credentials in either category on staff full time nor do they consult with anyone with those credentials. Tracy further explained they consult only with veterinarians, biochemists, microbiologists, biologists, research specialists and food production engineers to formulate their foods; all are consultants, not on staff.

[Bobby dog]

haleycookie,what’s your theory on why dogs OFTEN diagnosed with dietary DCM ARE NOT TAURINE DEFICIENT?

[Bobby dog]

C4c:
No they certainly aren’t ma and pa businesses. It would be nice if they spent as much time & money conducting and/or investing in research rather than the micro brew beer and real estate business…

joanne l: I believe Thixton had good intentions when she embarked on her career. Now, she is busy promoting her own agenda, it’s a business for her now.

Patricia A:
They are RECOMMENDATIONS for finding a responsible pet food manufacturer. Which recommendation(s) do you find objectionable to hold a company to?
https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

Where do I find WSAVA telling or writing this info? “They insist one of those brands are the only brands to feed your dog. “, “and the only choices that WSAVA tells people are k four brands with one being HILLS????” and “They insist one of those brands are the only brands to feed your dog.” ~ Patricia A

I don’t know about you, but I am glad when any pet food company funds research. The big three have been doing so throughout their histories. Now, most pet food companies only fund marketing their foods in pet food stores or in the media. In the 90’s and 2000’s the big three were so successful they were bought by larger corporations, happens in a capitalistic society. But, they continued investing in research.

I am no longer entrusting my pets’ health to someone who worked at Petco as a vendor coordinator with only 20’s years experience in sales and marketing, business development, strategic planning and financial management. Or, people who hold marketing, business, equine study degrees, people who just inherit the family business, were successful in the beef industry, or built a sports drink empire and decided why not make pet food it appears to be a profitable business with no education in companion animal nutrition.

However, the reluctance shown by BEG and other companies to take their profits and invest in our pets health rather than taking them to the bank would certainly give me pause if they suddenly did the responsible thing…

[Bobby dog]

Feed what you want, did not comment on your food choices just looking for the “WSAVA approved & recommended” brand lists from WSAVA I’ve been reading so much about…

[Bobby dog]

Patricia A & joanne l:
Please link to the WSAVA “approval” of Hill’s…or any “WSAVA approved or recommended” foods list from WSAVA.

[Bobby dog]

No hysteria, just allot of misinformation being posted…breaking down the recommendations might help another reader.

I’ll give you some of your own advice, you can just ignore my posts if you are bothered by them. 😉

As I posted before just looking to provide the safest care for my pets…like walking my dog on a leash in the city.

I never wrote about what brand makes me happy, just discussing misinformation you posted about WSAVA recs… 😉

[Bobby dog]

“WSAVA Global Veterinary Community,” what is questionable about membership and donations for an organization comprised of people in the Veterinary field from all over the world? Similar organizations exist in human medicine. There are membership benefits such as continuing education, seminars, access to scientific journals, networking with other Vets from around the world, but one of the things they don’t do is research food or brands. They provide recommendations for Vets and pet owners they feel are important for finding a safe pet food manufacturers not the foods they make.

Here’s the history of WSAVA:

Our History

I require more than a food just meeting AAFCO profiles; I start with the manufacturer. A food my pets’ do well on is important, but mostly I’m looking for a knowledgeable, responsible, and safe pet food manufacturer.

If I communicate with a manufacturer and I get a different answer every time it’s a red flag for me. I don’t fool around with any company that does not directly answer my questions. I pose most of them as yes or no questions to avoid the marketing spiel. If they want to spend five minutes answering a simple yes or no question, it’s time to move on for me.

Getting advice from a Vet that is up to date on current DCM recommendations and research is important; not all are up to date. I had a conversation with a Vet the other day who manufactures food. It was very disappointing and scary they were not up to date and was selling the just add taurine to food will prevent any further illnesses.

I don’t know how it’s possible to interpret WSAVA recommendations other than how they are written. They are clear and concise for helping people find a safe pet food manufacturer.
1. They either employ a full time credentialed nutritionist or they don’t.

2. They know who formulates their food and what their credentials are or they don’t.

3. Do they test foods via food trials or by formulation to meet AAFCO profiles? If by formulation do they meet AAFCO profiles by formulation or analysis of the finished product?

4. They will either tell you where their food is produced and manufactured or they won’t.

5. They either practice safety measures in production, ingredient quality control, and know what they are or they don’t.

6. They can provide an average/typical nutrient profile or they can’t.

7. What is the caloric value per gram, can, or cup of your food is self-explanatory.

8. They either conduct product research or they don’t. If they do, are the results published in peer reviewed journals is a self-explanatory question as well.

Instead of “hearing about” the recommendations, here they are:
https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

[Bobby dog]

No humor, it really happened. Food storage issues somewhere along the food chain. I can say it wasn’t me because I opened the box as soon as I pulled it out of the bag.

Quick search on Amazon and I found four complaints about worms and making dogs sick for Wellness kibble. I didn’t bother looking at the rest of the pages just the first one. That’s just one recipe from Wellness.

[Bobby dog]

You should have seen the worms in the box of raisins I bought a few months ago…

Quick search on Amazon and I found four complaints about worms and making dogs sick for Wellness kibble. I didn’t bother looking at the rest of the pages just the first one. That’s just one recipe from Wellness.

[Bobby dog]

“Even though it is “waava approved”…, “…just b/c a food is WSAVA approved…” and “I am not looking at WSAVA approved…”

WSAVA doesn’t “approve” anything. They “recommend” you ask a company the questions listed in the link below. They endorse this as part of a process for finding a pet food company that safely manufactures pet food.

From the link below, “If the manufacturer cannot or will not provide any of this information, owners should be cautious about feeding that brand.” ~ WSAVA

https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

[Bobby dog]

WSAVA DOES NOT APPROVE OR RECOMMEND FOOD BRANDS OR SPECIFIC RECIPES!!! I am not sure why there is so much difficulty understanding this. The focus of WSAVA RECOMMENDATIONS are on the PET FOOD MANUFACTURER NOT the foods they make. You will not find any recommendations for any brand on their site!! If you are looking for specific brand or recipe recommendations/approvals from WSAVA, it just does not exist!

https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

It is an organization that has been around since the early 60’s. Here’s info on their history:

Our History

[Bobby dog]

Lauren D: Can you please reference the DCM studies funded by any of the Big 3?

[Bobby dog]

HC, who funded the study referenced? “Of course, OF COURSE there’s going to be lots of room for funding this study that is in their favor.” I was replying to the acknowledgement section of the study listing three of the authors relationships, not the funding source of the study.

[Bobby dog]

Why aren’t other pet food companies funding research for our beloved companions?

[Bobby dog]

I read a comment on Skeptvet’s blog asking for advice from a Vet or two… I assume no one replied because they had not examined the dog.

Zignature never fell down a “rabbit hole.” Their whole schtick from the beginning was holistic, grain free, exotic meats, and no chicken, potatoes, wheat, soy, or corn that’s what they built their brand on, “Meat first provides the animal protein dogs need to thrive, while our limited ingredient philosophy eliminates allergenic ingredients, such as Chicken, Corn, Wheat Gluten, Soy, and Potatoes. The result is an optimal hypoallergenic, grain free, and low carbohydrate nutrition. We build on this natural foundation by adding vital supplements such as antioxidants, essential fatty acids, and a complete spectrum of vitamins and minerals for holistic pet food that goes beyond nature to become your pet’s signature food for life.” ~ Zignature

Don’t forget Zig’s endorsement of the Glycemic Research Institute…wonder if the creator of that business ever got their weight loss chocolate off the ground…

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT ZIGNATURE® CONTAINS NO POTATOES?
Potatoes have been identified as a high-glycemic carbohydrate for dog food. Zignature® only uses low glycemic carbohydrates such as whole Chickpeas, and garden Peas which also provide valuable soluble and insoluble fiber. For more details, visit the Glycemic Research institute.
https://zignature.com/faq/

[Bobby dog]

FWIW your cat has not had a blockage in four years, your doing something right!!! No doubt the fountain is helping too.

Some cats are just addicted to kibble. My cat is not big on wet food. He has access to H2O and food at all times and once a day he will nibble on some wet food. He’s my meat and potatoes boy, nothing fancy for him. I have tried feeding $5/canned foods and he just wants his Friskies & Fancy Feast, that’s it! I have to feed a different recipe each day.

I have tried taking away his kibble and only offering canned, he would not eat the daily amount required. Fasting a cat is not an option for health reasons so I gave up, it is what it is.

Even though I wrote my cat loves the Friskies “Lil Soups he still doesn’t eat it all. He leaves behind the salmon & tuna meat. I would think that would be the best part, but what do I know. I give the leftovers to my dog so he couldn’t be more pleased with my cat.

A few other suggestions are baby food and canned tuna. They are not vitamin balanced for cats so they’re something that should only be offered as supplemental foods like a treat, not a meal. I usually buy the Chicken of the Sea low sodium chunk light tuna in H2O and I have fed Beech-Nut Stage 1 Chicken & Chicken Broth, Beech-Nut Stage 1 Turkey & Turkey Broth, and Gerber Stage 2 Chicken & Chicken Gravy. They usually love drinking the tuna juice too. I used those two options for a few of my past kitties that wouldn’t eat canned to help hydrate them.

Edit: I have also fed StarKist reduced sodium canned salmon and canned mackerel.

I love reading stories of fellow cat lovers feeding strays! I am a sucker for a stray kitty and have had my share move in with us over the years. One of them even had a tipped ear. It took me two weeks to be able to pet him, he was one in a million.

[Bobby dog]

I know you mentioned trying soups and broths, not sure if they were people foods. If they were people soups/broths, one other suggestion is the Friskies ‘Lil Soups. I have a cat who will just lick the gravy off wet foods allot of times. He loves the soups. There are a few companies out there that make these type of soups/bisques for kitties as well in pouches.

I’ve also had luck sprinkling Purina Forta Flora over food to entice my kitties to eat wet food.

[Bobby dog]

“Spend time reading/read the units and you will read what moderators say: there are hard & fast rules for the group. It’s science based. Opinions on many points aren’t allowed. They will be deleted. Recommend non WSAVA compliant foods….it will be deleted. Recommend home cooked or raw without being designed by a nutritionist (with credentials I’m not positive about)….it will be deleted…There is no “I think my food is following”…..they either are or they aren’t. It’s not an interpretation…Again….it’s a FB group. Don’t like what they say? Leave.”

What InkedMarie wrote, it’s pretty simple…

[Bobby dog]

The article you posted from Cooking Light is about the Cesar dog food recall in 2016, not of any of the other Mars owned brands..

“During this time, multiple consumers also complained about finding hard plastic pieces and elastic material in their pet’s food. The plastic was traced back to broken equipment at the plant. After consumers discovered foreign material in the canned food in 2016, Mars recalled 54,255 cases of CESAR Classics Filet Mignon Flavor.” ~ 4th paragraph Cooking Light

There are several links in the article as well, one being to the FDA site. I only found this announcement concerning the Cesar 2016 recall on the FDA site. It only addresses plastic in the food not any of the other alleged observations written about in the article so I am not sure where the rest of the info was gathered from.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts/mars-petcare-us-announces-voluntary-recall-limited-number-cesarr-classics-filet-mignon-flavor-wet

Regardless, I have always found it best to ask the company in question specific written questions so I can reference info when needed. Good luck.

[Bobby dog]

Not at all Sanne, I have no room to critique anyone’s written English anyway!!

I just remember you writing about being from another country before.

[Bobby dog]

The above quote is from Wiki about RC, not from the “Cooking Light” article you posted a link to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Canin

The Cooking Light article is about Cesar dog food recalls, not RC or any of Mars other brands.
https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts/mars-petcare-us-announces-voluntary-recall-limited-number-cesarr-classics-filet-mignon-flavor-wet

Mars does not make pet food, they own companies that make pet food and other products. As I wrote above, RC has it’s own facilities and team members.

The best thing to do is ask RC directly:
https://www.royalcanin.com/us/contact-us#Contact us

[Bobby dog]

Here’s more info with links and references concerning the misconceptions of the diets implicated in the alert.

From the article It’s Not Just Grain-Free: “In addition, not all pet food manufacturers have the same level of nutritional expertise and quality control, and this variability could introduce potential issues with some products.” ~ Dr. Freeman

Dr. Freeman is referenced in the FDA alerts as well as working with them and other researchers.

It’s Not Just Grain-Free: An Update on Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy

[Bobby dog]

Well written Sanne!!!!! People get hung up on the GF aspect of the alert and don’t understand that is only one of the unknowns.

Sanne what country do you live in?

[Bobby dog]

Hi joanne:
Was the FDA investigation into an RC facility? Mars has several brands of pet food under their umbrella. Each brand has their own team of employees, procedures, and facilities they make their foods at and each is responsible for their product.

I have only read about the meticulous procedures RC follows making their pet foods.

I don’t feed RC, I have only fed Mars Sheba cat food in the past. I have fed RC Rx foods and was extremely happy with the results. I would feed RC and plan to try it in the future.

Maybe aimee will pop in, she feeds RC and is well versed on it.

[Bobby dog]

Yup, “nutrition resources,” again not RECOMMENDATIONS for brands…sigh is right!

[Bobby dog]

That’s fine for you to follow your Vet’s advice, their advice does not meet my criteria, or more importantly my Vets’ recommendations. Agree to disagree.

[Bobby dog]

Yup, they have recommendations for CHOOSING pet food, they don’t examine pets.

Perhaps send the WSAVA link to your Vet along with the links you have posted from the Skeptvet on these topics since they have examined your dogs. Lot’s of nutritional info in those links that reference Tuft’s, UC Davis, the researchers involved in the DCM alert, the FDA…

[Bobby dog]

Vague? lol The only vagueness you will get from those recs are the wishy washy answers from the pet food companies when asking them. Like Fromm’s they “brought” people together to make pet food. lol What does that even mean, did they Skype, phone call, e-mail, visited a day or two for consult with their “Head Chef?”

Ask these questions verbatim from most pet food companies and enjoy the wishy washy answers you get.

You might reconsider posting links that recommend Tufts or UC Davis nutritional services, it makes your point wishy washy if you really aren’t interested in WSAVA recs…

P.S. WSAVA does not examine pets

[Bobby dog]

So let’s agree to disagree, we have different pet food criteria’s. Fromm doesn’t meet WSAVA recs.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Joanne:
IMO it doesn’t matter how long a company has been around. It depends on how they run their company.

I am now following all WSAVA recommendations for choosing a pet food company. Prior to the DCM alert I followed most of the WSAVA recs. The few I didn’t care so much to follow were if a company did research, conducted feeding trials, had their own manufacturing facilities, and employed full time credentialed employees educated in companion animal nutrition. My thoughts were those things are expensive and I can see why a company doesn’t invest in that stuff. Well, my thoughts changed after this DCM alert.

Then I took a look at various BEG company profits. Why shouldn’t they invest their profits back into producing a safe food? Why should my dog be their guinea pig? They are all making a boat load of money.

I’m loyal to family and friends among other things, not dog food. I only care about feeding a safe food. If any food I feed becomes unsafe to feed, I will move onto the next brand.

[Bobby dog]

I guess you don’t get it. 🙁 They don’t RECOMMEND BRANDS or SPECIFIC DIETS, they have eight recommendations for choosing a pet food from any company you choose. They RECOMMEND asking for the info from any company you consider feeding.

[Bobby dog]

Yessssssss, finally YOU GET IT!!!! They have RECOMMENDATIONS for CHOOSING a pet food. Eight of them, read all about it!!

https://www.wsava.org/wsava/media/arpita-and-emma-editorial/selecting-the-best-food-for-your-pet.pdf

[Bobby dog]

Not hysterical, just looking for the safest food to feed to avoid health issues. Just like I use a leash when walking my dog in the city. Eight simple recommendations are a no brainer for me.

I’m not sure I follow your logic anon. You have written you trust your Vet’s opinion on pet food, yet you also regularly post links to the Skeptvet who recommends Tuft’s nutritional resources. They recommend following WSAVA recommendations. I’m guessing today your Vet’s recs are good.

/forums/topic/grain-free-diets-and-heart-disease/page/3/#post-128598

[Bobby dog]

I contacted Fromm this week and asked a few specific questions in regards to the education of the people they employ full time to concoct their recipes:

“Thank you for reaching out to Fromm Family Foods. I would be happy to give you some information.

Do you employ a full-time board certified by the American College of Veterinary Nutrition Vet? Do you employ a full-time PhD companion animal nutritionist?

No, we do not employ a PhD or board certified veterinary nutritionist.

If you don’t employ full-time people with the credentials above, do you consult with anyone on formulations and what are their credentials?

Our foods are formulated by Mr. Tom Nieman who is the owner of the company and holds a degree in chemical engineering. Mr. Nieman was the direct understudy of Dr. Willard Roberts, who was the chief nutritionist at Fromm Family Foods for over 35 years. For five generations Fromm Family Foods has brought together veterinarians, biochemists, microbiologists, biologists, research specialists and food production engineers to formulate our foods. Our products are formulated to meet AAFCO nutrient profiles. They meet AAFCO nutrient profiles by formulation and by analysis of the finished product.”

They bring together people along with their “Head Chef,” no one with credentials in small animal nutrition full time.

[Bobby dog]

Absolutely Marie!!! Nothing unnecessary IMO especially when you have been feeding a suspected diet. Saving a dog’s life is what’s important and gathering more info on this alert so this can be resolved faster.

Here’s another thought anon, have you seen the price of RC?

WSAVA doesn’t approve foods they have RECOMMENDATIONS for selecting pet foods.

I agree. keeping up with FDA alerts is a good idea. You can find references in their info from Dr. Stern and Dr. Freeman if you don’t care for Facebook, or even in the link you provided above to the Skeptvet…

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