We finally found a food our girl will scarf down. The fish and lamb flavors of firstmate. The vet is very happy with her health now, and we determined she just can’t handle the higher meat protein foods. That said, firstmate has a lot of potatoes, its sister brand kasik has lentils instead and is cheaper. I don’t mind paying for the firstmate if it is truly the better food, but is it? We haven’t gotten ahold of a Kasik sample so she might not even like it, but before I get the next bags I thought I’d check.
It may depend on what agrees with the dog. I prefer to avoid potato laden dog foods.
I would probably choose the lentils.
Per the Zignature website http://zignature.com/?page_id=12&lang=en
Why is it important that Zignature® contains no potatoes?
Potatoes have been identified as a high-glycemic carbohydrate for dog food. Zignature® only uses low glycemic carbohydrates such as whole Chickpeas, and garden Peas which also provide valuable soluble and insoluble fiber. For more details, visit the Glycemic Research institute at gripetfoods.com.
I just looked it up, they both look good, but, I prefer this one. I noticed the calories are high with both. So watch the serving portions. Maybe use the kibble as a base and add something.
PS: Thanks for mentioning Firstmate/Kasik, for now we are happy with Zignature. However, I would consider trying this food in the future.
I don’t know that I have a real strong preference for one over the other in regards to potato over lentils but my preference would be for potato. This is likely based on experience with my own dog’s GI problems. And rightly of wrongly I associate lentils with gas. I’d imagine that like anything else there are individual responses which make one work better than another for that particular dog.
The quote you posted from the Zigniture site was one I asked the company about. Starches are interesting. Potato when fed hot is high glycemic and when eaten cold falls into low glycemic or just outside the low range. Potato variety also plays a role.
Since kibble isn’t fed hot I asked for a reference for that statement. The company wasn’t able to provide one and directed me to the GRI page Then they, in my opinion, dug themselves into an even deeper hole with saying potato feeds yeast and that ” many times when they[owners] see their dog itching, they assume it’s an allergy and its actually candida” There is no basis for such a statement. This was followed with a statement that by eliminating potato and grains from the diet you’ll starve the yeast and their “proteins that assist in cooling the body down to help keep yeast from growing.”
The company is making a lot of statements for which there is no evidence and appear to be pages taken right of the holistic handbook.
I took a look at the GRI. I found it very odd that they give out awards for “best pet resort” and “best pet food store” and the winners are both in Florida a mere 11 miles apart from each other. No mention of how these businesses were chosen. I didn’t find anything about actually feeding the foods they are rating and measuring glucose levels. I did find that you submit an application for them to test your food and then they will tell you how much it costs. There is a yelp review that someone wrote saying they paid $6.000.00 and never received any results anything from them and now can’t get them to respond to his inquires.
Overall I don’t see this company as credible.
The Glycemic Research Institute site was a topic of conversation on DFA about four or five years ago. I don’t remember specifics, but I believe there was controversy with the creator and how their research was conducted. Doesn’t look like the site has been updated in a while; quite a few of the rewards are dated 2010-2012.
A few years ago I reached out to Zignature with questions and had the same experience you appeared to have had.
Thanks for the replies. She’s an underweight rescue so we’re looking for higher calorie food which is how we found firstmate. Sheceats the same volume every day so we need to pack more calories into that until she gets a little bigger. She’s getting 2 cups of firstmate per day and one cup of some other random thing she doesn’t love that we’re trying to get rid of. Yesterday was signature duck. Today is fromms gold.
She absolutely loves the firstmate but I really wonder if it’s worth $70 a bag. There aren’t many other foods that cost more. It doesn’t seem particularly awesome except she likes it and hasn’t liked prob 20-30 other things we’ve tried. She doesn’t have food allergies, is fine with or without grain, hates salmon, does poorly on overly rich foods. We also tried the firstmate chicken but she didn’t like it. She seems to not love chicken in general. We’d like to keep her with a food with roughly 500 calories per cup for at least another month. If there’s another option I’m missing I’m happy to try something else. She really likes the firstmate fish combo and no one else has that so we’ll stick with that (firstmate or kasik- both are the same) but maybe rotate it with a different lamb food? Or am I overthinking this and just give her what we have now? Thanks for any thoughts you have.
It’s all trial and error. It sounds like you are finding out what works best for your dog.
If you are going to rotate, I would stay within the same brand for best results, in your case, Firstmate/Kasik.
But I would finish one bag first, then start the next, rather than have 2 bags open at the same time. Kibble goes stale fast.
For example, my local pet supply store had a good deal on Zignature catfish, so I have a couple of large bags to go through, after that it will be the whitefish (our favorite), next I will try the trout/salmon.
One of my dogs (allergies) does best on fish formulas, my other dog eats anything. So, fish it is!
But I add stuff to the kibble anyway.
I read an article that said lintels and other dried beans contain plytates and lecteins which are difficult for dogs to digest.
I prefer dog food kibble that contains no potatoes, for a variety of reasons.
I guess it depends on the dog. I have noticed that some kibbles appear to be loaded with potato. I think legumes are better 🙂
From the comment section of this article http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/
Use the search engine there to look up specific topics.
August 8, 2016 at 11:04 am
The problem is that definitive conclusions about “good” vs “bad” diets, or about the optimal diet for any individual pet, simply aren’t justified by the available evidence. Just because we want to be able to make firm, reliable conclusions about what to feed doesn’t mean we always can. Uncertainty is frustrating but sometimes it is a reality.
I would say the best advice will come from board-certified nutrition specialists, but this level of input is probably only needed for animals with specific health issues related to nutrition. Otherwise, the basic principles would be something like:
1. Don’t overfeed. Overweight body conditions is the most significant nutritional risk factor for disease known, and reasonable caloric restriction has been consistently shown to have health benefits.
2. Feed a commercial diet that meets basic adequacy standards or a homemade cooked diet formulated by a nutritionist.
3. Monitor body weight, lean body mass, stool and coat quality, and other measures of well-being and if they do not seem to be optimal, feel free to do some trial and error changing of brands or diets, accepting that the results are of limited value for generalizing about the feeding of other pets.
4. Don’t get rigid and dogmatic about specific ingredients, brands, etc. The label really tells us almost nothing of value about the health implications of a particular food.
5. If it sounds revolutionary or too good to be true and isn’t supported by extensive, consistent clinical research, it’s probably just opinion and not very reliable advice.
I would like lentils over potato.
Thanks anon101 for skeptvet, great advice on his site.
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