[JASTECH]

This site is for helping others, no matter how long I’ve had dogs, “I can still learn” and try to. I am not hard headed on everything I say or do. Many things are new to me and sometimes I find myself not reading everything when trying to correct a problem too fast. I have been off here taking care of sickly dogs, yes I think it was the Dyne. Trying to correct it still. I don’t reccomend nor endorsed this product at this time do to the PG.

I will consider other vendor offers if available.

Thanks, JASTECH

[Spiffyloo88]

It really is better for dogs to digest cooked veggies. My dog is allergic to wheat, chicken, carrots and rice that we know of so we make him hard boiled eggs and cooked oatmeal and boiled sweet potatoes, at the suggestion of our vet. I also need ideas on supplements to add to his food. We just started a month ago to see if we could clear up his rashes and diarrhea and it did so now we slowly add things one at a time and see how he reacts. I read you can buy like powdered vitamin stuff but I don’t even know where to start.
The poor guy can’t even have flavored chew toys so we have to buy plastic bones it kind of makes me sad for him.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Spiffyloo88.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[aimee]

Hi Dori,
I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that your vet “doesn’t even know the correct way to administer this medication”. If Dr. Dodds recommends to give the meds one hour before or three hours after a meal to avoid interference with food an assumption is being made that the stomach is indeed empty/near empty at those times. Is that assumption valid? I don’t see that it is as stomach emptying in the dog and cat can be very prolonged, well over 12 hours.

The drug label reads “Soloxine tablets may be administered orally or placed in the food.” I think this idea of giving replacement on an empty stomach is more of a human thing and may not be all that clinically relevant to the dog.

Certainly if the dog doesn’t seem to be absorbing the meds well, based T4 levels measured after taking the pill, it is reasonable to try giving the meds after a 12 hour fast and seeing if that makes a difference.

TSH measurement isn’t used much in dogs for monitoring treatment. I don’t think the test is as accurate/valid as it is in people. I don’t think there is any real value in running it.

[theBCnut]

Here’s the thing with giving it with food. There are several different things that affect how the body takes up the thyroid replacement, calcium, amount and strength of acid in the stomach, amount of food taken with it, certain vitamins and minerals. You can give it with food, but it needs to be the same food in the same amount, every single time. And thyroid levels need to be tested under those circumstances. Any changes affect the amount of thyroid hormone that makes it into the system. My mom has to take her thyroid replacement with food, because she has other health issue that mean she can’t wait an hour to eat. I take mine, then go do chores on the farm, and an hour later I’m ready for breakfast. Either way is ok as long as you always do it the same way, and the blood tests reflect the way you take it. That’s the only way to know that you’re giving the right dose.

[Dori]

Wow. Thanks for your post. My vet has always told me to add it to her food. Once again, there I go listening to the vet. Jeesh. I never take nutrition advice from my vet but I certainly did think that medicine and meds were her area of expertise and now I find she doesn’t even know the correct way to administer this medication that for years she has had me adding to her food. She told me that given on an empty stomach would upset her gut. Again, I say Jeesh! Is the Canine Thyroid Epidemic a book I can purchase or is it a posting? Thanks for your input. I also read somewhere that it was very very rare for a small or toy canine to have hypothyroidism (may Dr. Becker’s post) so I was thinking it might be something else she actually had like an adrenal issue (an in Dr. Becker’s post) and not a thyroid problem. My names Dori, by the way. dchassett is beginning to sound to me like a fictitious poster made up name. I’m Dori C Hassett. Maybe I should change it but then I don’t really know how to do that. It took me months to figure out how to get a pic by my name.

[Dori]

Has anyone had experience with a dog with Hypothyroidism and the medication Soloxine. One of my dogs was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism by a traditional vet a number of years ago and was put on Soloxine. She’s been on it ever since diagnosed. I have to admit that I was very uninformed on nutrition and dogs until a couple of years ago when I discovered this site and have since learned a wealth of information. I’ve gotten a fabulous “free” education from the posters like Shawna, Patty Vaughn, HDM and others. My dogs have since made the transition to 5 star kibbles and as of about three months ago totally transitioned to raw feeding. Presently I rotate commercial frozen raw by proteins and brands and I add a few fruits and veggies. They are now at the point that I can rotate their proteins and brands with each meal (twice a day) and no loose stools or problems whatsoever. The change in their skin, hair, demeanor, food intolerances, etc. has been nothing short of a miracle. Now to my question. Does anyone feel that my having changed their nutrition completely my one dog would still need soloxine for hypothyroidism. Is it even possible that she no longer has it so that there is no need to medicate her? She is a 14 year old Maltese. She now acts as if she’s 14 months old. From reading on this site I’ve learned that so many illnesses and problems with dogs has been due to poor nutrition, and let’s face it, all the crap in commercial kibble, and have done a 180 on proper nutrition and good proper supplements. I’m very sad to say that I was one of the ignorant pet owners that was very proud to say that she never ever fed her dogs “people” food. In fact, it was bad for them. I bought into the kibble marketing as well as vets advise that kibble was what to feed and if you found a kibble that worked never change it. What an idiot I was. Now they get no kibble whatsoever and happy to say that to all the dog owners that I know that I gave erroneous information to mea culpa, mea culpa and have sent the to this site.

[Jazz Lover]

Sharon, we to have a 9mo (apr 2013) old lab & I’ve been struggling as to which food to switch to from (Euk LBP). He is now in recovery, post Dysplasia/FCP and this is what got me reading. Although, our initial recommend for Euk is from a reputable guide dog trainer, therefore I assumed I must use it! When I began to actually read the ingredients and noticed corn as one of the top, I felt terribly. As I don’t even eat corn.

Jazz is 75/80lbs. He was neutered at time of surgery. He is not a lean as he was pre-surgery (FCP & neuter). He has been on rest for the past 4wks since surgery – no excercise. Very difficult, as he’s a puppy!

You say you switched to Orijen LBP (puppy? correct?) What info do you have as to how long Mystery should stay on puppy, and at what age should one transition to adult (Orijen Adult).

I would prefer to have 2 variety’s of dry and supp w/ topper such as canned, dehydrated, Stella & Chewy’s & sardine’s a few times ea wk. Since 8mo I’ve been using Grizzly Salmon oil. Because he’s still under 2, I don’t feel comfortable adding all kinds of supps, etc. I’d like to identify a good turmeric… although, I’m confused as when to use toppers & fish oil, turmeric & the amount, given I would be combining w/ his regular food. (For example: If he has 4cups of dry, what amt do you reduce when you include a topper (dehydrated, sardines or canned)?

I feel like I’ve just about narrowed my food search to a few brands to further look into, however there’s still confusion as to what I should look for in a food for my Lg Breed from age 9mo after. If there are other food recommends then the LBP that I should venture to please lmk?

[RescueDaneMom]

Lablubber-

I just wanted to say that I didn’t intentionally ignore your post. I tend not to respond unless I feel 100% sure in the advice I can offer. I personally didn’t go through the LBP phase. I adopted my Great Dane when he was 2. I feed a combination of raw and dehydrated but I know that not everyone is comfortable in feeding raw. I fed my boy kibble for 5 years before I started learning about raw.

I think that coconut oil, flax, and fish oil are great supplements to be adding right now. I don’t think it’s wise to give a ton of supplements to puppies right off the bat. Those 3 though are great. The only other thing you might want to consider is digestive enzymes and probiotics if you notice your pup needs a little extra digestive support. I give them to my dog because he’s older. You can also give a little bit of kefir. You can find it in the grocery store. It has 10 strains of probiotics. It’s much better than yogurt. You’d have to feed way more yogurt to get the same probiotic benefit as kefir. Also, I too switch off fish oil with krill oil. I would definitely continue to do that. They don’t need as much krill oil as fish oil because it is more bioavailable so you’ll want to watch your dosage. Here is info on krill oil from Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx

Here is an article from Dr. Becker on using Tumeric: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/12/turmeric.aspx She provides dosage at the bottom. “Small to medium-sized dogs can be given 250 milligrams twice a day, and large to giant breeds should get 500 milligrams two to three times a day.” Here is an article on coconut oil if you haven’t seen it already: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

If I were feeding kibble from HDM’s list, my top picks would be Earthborn Holistic and Annamaet. I have fed both to my dog and he did really well on them. I haven’t used it but I like the look of Dr. Tim’s. I also used The Honest Kitchen. I’ve been using for almost 6 years now. It’s a dehydrated food that you rehydrate with water before serving. It’s not raw because it has been heated during the dehydration process, though at a lot lower temperature than what kibble is exposed to when being extruded. You can use it as a topper if you want. The Thrive and Love varieties are complete and balanced with the correct Ca/P ratio for a LBP.

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~
It appears whomever created the spreadsheets, both agree on the percentages because the only difference between the two is that liver and organs are split on the one you provided. I copied column B and pasted so that I could see side by side, the monthly requirement for Mystery at his current weight and what it would be at full grown weight – just so I would order the right size freezer.

Patty ~
I ordered the fridge tonight. Took Mystery with me and for the very first time – he didn’t throw up. It’s about a 25 minute trip to Home Depot though we stopped at the vet first to get his actual weight, 58 lbs, and walked around outside for a few minutes before getting back in the car. We spent about an hour in HD and then I popped over to the grocery store for some milk and a whole chicken and a container of chicken livers. They had a turkey back so I also got that so I wouldn’t have to cut the chicken up or give him kibble again tonight.

When we got home I put the turkey on the counter and he must’ve smelled it because he kept trying to nose up to it. I removed the meat from the bone – I just didn’t want to bother with any unnecessary mess, put it in a large stainless bowl and set it down for him in his crate. He went at it like it was the best thing he’s ever tasted – and it probably was. My little five month old Maine Coon, Falkon, got wind of it and jumped in the crate to steal a piece. Unless I close the crate door, I imagine Mystery is going to have to share all of his meals with Falkon from now on. (Falkon steals all kinds of food – peas from my colander, bread from the table, crab chowder from a pot on the cooktop (I have all induction so there’s never the possibility of him getting burned), the kitten is brazen.)

All in all, I’m really pleased. Taking that first step wasn’t as hard as I anticipated. I snapped a shot of Mystery and Falkon in the crate. I also took a shot of Mystery laying on the floor. Obviously, his butt looks a little large because of the way he’s laying but you can still see how he looks a little on the thin side. Even so, I’d rather he be a little thin than too fat at his age.

(Bizarre how these photos look stretched.)
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag112/FlutePixzy/IMG_9011_zpsd11a7caf.jpg
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag112/FlutePixzy/IMG_9022_zps5654dd12.jpg
http://i1301.photobucket.com/albums/ag112/FlutePixzy/IMG_9021_zps00e611a3.jpg
http://s1301.photobucket.com/user/FlutePixzy/media/IMG_9021_zps00e611a3.jpg.html

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[USA]

Hi Molzy

There will always be a risk in feeding a dog raw meaty bones. No one can guarantee you that a bone will never cause harm to your dog. Raw feeders want to feed their dog a similar diet to what wolves eat in the wild, believing it is the most natural and species appropriate.

One thing that I think is often overlooked is that when wolves consume bones they also consume the fur of the animal they are eating. The bone usually comes out the other end of the wolf wrapped in fur. The fur protects the inside of the wolf from being damaged as the bone makes its way through its digestive system.

For the gulping you could try feeding a large piece of frozen meat. The piece should be bigger than your dog’s head. This makes it almost impossible for your dog to just gulp down. Being frozen also makes it difficult to just swallow and could encourage your dog to chew. As long as you are able to take the piece away from your dog before it becomes small enough to swallow or when your dog has eaten enough, a frozen piece of meat larger than your dog’s head is an option.

Another option is raw boneless meat. This method has no danger of your dog being injured from bones. In this method you would have to add a calcium supplement to replace the calcium in the bones.

Reading a book like See Spot Live Longer (more geared to the beginner) or Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet (a little more advanced) both by Steve Brown will help you in preparing nutritionally balanced home prepared raw or cooked meals for your dogs.

I am not a fan of using a metal vice grips or a metal tube to stop your dog from gulping. I am worried that your dog might injure himself by chomping down on them or by trying to swallow the vice grips.

Good Luck with Quincy and LoJack!!!!

[theBCnut]

Hi Lablubber

My best suggestion for a food to feed would be to take the list with you to the stores around you and see what is available, where, for how much. Find a few that interest you and come back and read the reviews on them. If you still are interested pick up a few different foods and try them, one after another. Take notes on how your dog does on them, cross off any that he didn’t do well on, and go pick a few more to try. When you have a few different proteins from a few different brands, you will be feeding your dog the best you can without doing canned, dehydrated, freeze dried, fresh, or raw.

As for specific brands to start with, I prefer Nature’s Variety Instinct, Annamaet, By Nature, and Wellness.

[Candle]

Hi all, I’m new here but was wondering if anyone could give any insight on a few topics.

What do I need to do to get my dog treats in a retail store?

What can I do about preservatives to keep the shelf life longer?

Finally, what can I do for packaging?

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Thank you once again for your reply on the vaccinations and yes i know this is a nutrition forum for large breed dogs and I have most of the tinme been talking about it buit it just came to mind while I was typing so I asked anyway, since all of your longtimers seem so well versed and have educated yourself in the finer points of truly raising your dog right… So thank you for your reply…. It is very much appreciated…

Then Patty, thank you also for your reply…. I know that written word is the poorest form of communication there is and you grossly misunderstood my intentions in my words because if you have read my other posts, I happen to think all of you are very informative and also very wise in your area of expertise. I actually switched off of the dog food my breeder had my pup on because of a post I think Hound Dog Mom made and I don’t know where in the world off of here that I got the idea to use Blue but it has made a world of difference in his coat, his stool conformity and he has yet to have the first issue with the Chicken and Rice Lg. Breed Puppy Food.

As far as the raw diet goes, I have no issue with anyone using it and believe me had I not seen first hand several issues myself with it, then I assure you for my pup, I would doing whatever it takes to have him on it and besides even the people I knew that had the issue may have not used the raw diet in the prop[er way or had the strict regime of ingredients like you guys do.

Believe me if I didn’t agree with anything you sauid or thought that you didn’t know what you were talking about….i sure would not have changed my whole way of thinking and I would still be using milk replacer in my puppy chow and facing hip or elbow issues down the road.

I came here to be educated by people like you and hound dog mom and all of the year of wisdom that is formed and madeup by in this forum. And then boom you hit me with another shot in your last reply and told me Blue had too much calcium as well and I just finished a 20 day transition over to it for my dog.

I swear someone on here told me it was one of the top 25 foods to feed a large breed puppy. So excuse me if I upset you by using the poorest form of communication there is because there was nothing intended wrongly for any of you. Because I am disciple of all of you and intend to remain so if you guys don’t shun me out for poor wording.

So with that said… Can I just plainly, country boy ask you what you would feed a labrador retriever pup that means the world to you if you don’t feel comfortable with going the raw way just yet?

One other thing I would also like to ask about supplimentation is with all of the stomach cancer issue that so many older dogs are facing… Has any of you ever added Tumeric or Curcumin to your dogs diet because I can tell you for a fact and even MD Anderson Hospital finally admitted that they have found that it actually kills cancer cells and then acts as an outright cancer fighting addition to your diet… My boss had Multiple Myeloma (Bone Cancer) and he was in stage 4 when they found it and then through nutritional changes and lots of prayer, he is a documented walking miracle. Needless to say his whole staff now takes tumeric/curcumin everyday… And my pup get a 1/2 capsule everyday as well, until I find out it is bad thing for him which I don’t think I will from what I have read. In fact I am going to write Texas A&M Vet. School to make sure that it will not and if not what dosage I could give him to be a correct amount for his system. I personally think it will make him cancer immune in his old age. I have had skin cancers on my arm dissolve and dissappear after just a few month of taking 3 capsules a day of it every day.

So I am sorry if I ruffled anyone up because I truly did not mean to do so because I respect and enjoy reading every single thing you guys write. I read it every day and every night religiously. I just thought it was kindly strange that everyone was replying to all the posts done after mine and not a thing toward mine at all… You know what assuming does but anything I aksed is asked geniunnely because I don’t know and really want someone more educated and wise to step up and help me out… This puppy means the world to me and so I only want the best for him even if I have to swallow a lot of stuff that I didn’t know I was doing wrong on.

So thanks for your reply and I look forward tolearning much more from all of you on this forum.

The Lablubber

So thank you for all of your help and wisdom and please continue what you are doing for all of us newbies to the real world of pet nutrition.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Marie ~
Sorry about that – “he” would be the person (I suppose it could be a “she”), from Hare-Today that posted the two week feeding schedule.

Patty ~
I went over to MPC and not only do they have links to a plethora of information on raw feeding but, though I didn’t do a line-by-line comparison, it looks like their prices are better than Hare-Today. I didn’t take into account shipping costs so I’ll have to take a look at that. I had some problem with the shopping cart at Hare-Today – if I didn’t keep adding stuff it would completely empty the cart after just a few minutes of inactivity. Aack! I don’t shop well when I’m being rushed.

I did read about the percentages in the Raw Feeding 101 article from MPC. Thankfully, Mystery is already well beyond needing 10% of his body weight at nearly 60lbs – full grown will be 85lbs. I also appreciated the Raw Feeding Calculator link. What a great resource that is. I’m going to start Mystery at 4% of his body weight – he’s been on a growth spurt for a couple weeks where is body has gotten longer, typical of an English Creme, but his waist isn’t keeping up. I can’t see his ribs but I can feel them more than I would like.

I’m going to order a fridge for the garage this afternoon. I thought about just getting a freezer but with our house full of kids and grandchildren this past Christmas (and hopefully our great grandson and his mom next year), I figure I can use the extra fridge space too.

I’m also headed to Sam’s to pick up some whole chicken, just to start Mystery on an ingredient he’s already been getting for training treats. I’ll feed him his kibble in the morning until it’s gone and chicken in the evenings. The fridge/freezer should be here by Wednesday and that will give me time to order some essentials as well as try to find a co-op of folks in my area who might be buying in bulk.

OMG! We’re actually doing this!!! Yaay for Mystery!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sully’s Mom ~

I forgot to mention that on my second visit to the vet, they recommended a Virbac brand shampoo. Shortly after the second bathing I got an alert from PetMD regarding a carcinogenic ingredient in the shampoo. CA has banned the shampoos and when I looked at the bottle, sure enough, it said it wasn’t to be sold in CA (we’re in NC). I took what was remaining back to my vet for a $37 refund.

The offending ingredient is DEA, Diethanolamine, and you can read the article here: http://www.petmd.com/blogs/thedailyvet/pmahaney/2013/nov/have-you-been-using-a-cancer-causing-shampoo-on-your-pet-31037. Apparently, it is widely used in other shampoos as well.

We’ve lost a cat and very recently a Golden to cancer. Mystery has been enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s Lifetime Golden Retriever Study – on CANCER! That’s just what I need, a shampoo with a carcinogen in it. And it wasn’t just Mystery I was putting at risk, I had that shampoo on my hands too.

My vet hadn’t heard of the DEA link to cancer but when I dropped in a few days ago I noticed there were no Virbac shampoos on his shelves anymore.

Thought you might want to know in case your vet suggests a prescription shampoo to help with the itching. I hope the coconut oil works though, since it’s all natural.

[Molzy]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses. Sorry I haven’t been responding, my internet at home was down, and I am not talented enough with my smartphone to respond on it, but I have been following all the wonderful information. But a quick overview of where we are at today – attacks are down to about once every two weeks, and I am able to keep them from escalating to vomiting by massaging his belly to push out any gas build up (meaning I am up every hour or so all night those nights). I am feeding him Honest Kitchen Keen, and he gets 2/3 of cup at 7am, 5-6pm, and 10-11pm. He doesn’t get any other treats or human food. I will try to reply to each post below:

Cbgmom – So far we have been using the harness (and even taking that off when inside, since our home has double entries with a front porch and back mudroom so no risk of escaping). I think it *is* helping some, since he does still occasionally start an attack when he rests his head funny (so that something pushes on his throat).

Billy – the boarding definitely was stressful for him, and I wish we hadn’t been forced to do that. However, I don’t think he is confused anymore, and certain other events (such as staying with my mom for almost a week) were not related with any sort of attack. They will often start at night while we’re watching TV and he is basically sleeping/resting, though once they start there is definitely a stress component. I don’t think it is a habitual thing, as he clearly gets freaked out when it happens and wants it to stop (not to anthropomorphize). We have tried boiled rice and chicken – did NOT go over well with him (he did not digest the rice at all, it came out the other end looking the same). Our best luck so far has been a wet diet (honest kitchen or canned dog food). I will definitely work in increasing his physical activity, been a hard winter here with wind chill advisories most weeks it seems, and he is not tolerant of the cold at all. Thanks for the advice!

Bunny – the first time this happened, I definitely thought it was bloat!! I don’t think I slept at ALL that night, I gave him some gas-x and just laid next to him. I called the vet as soon as they opened the next morning, but since he was still eating and defecating they weren’t concerned. He has never had one of his episodes AT the clinic, and my vet is very unconcerned about whatever is wrong since he is otherwise healthy. We haven’t even done an endoscopy at this point.

I have been considering post-nasal drip recently (Pepcid doesn’t seem to really help, so I don’t *think* it is completely related to reflux). However, he can also be triggered if his throat gets touched oddly, so I am leaning towards trachea damage. We adopted Quincy at the end of July – I know they used a choke chain at the shelter with him. However, he had NO issues for the first 10 days we had him, then I had to board him for 4 days due to a family wedding and it started after that. I will always wonder if something happened to him while he was boarding, as he is TERRIFIED of the guy we boarded him with (I took a training course there a few months later, and Quincy would hide under my chair from the guy, so we stopped going because he would force Quincy to let him pet him).

I will try the walking, as I could see that helping. The best thing I have found so far is lying next to him and massaging his belly to push the gas out. I’ve been doing that for the past 6 weeks or so and have managed to avoid the escalated attacks (vomiting and what appears to me to be severe discomfort).

AnotherEmily – SO sorry to hear what you’re going through! As relieved I am that my dog isn’t the only one, I wish I was the only one, because I hate hearing that other dogs are suffering as well. It sounds like you’ve really tried everything, so please keep us posted. How is he doing without chicken? I have considered food allergies, but what I don’t get is that he can be FINE for two weeks, and then have an episode. I try to be VERY careful about not giving him anything “extra”, not even any dog treats recently. I really can’t see a pattern to why and when it happens, even with keeping a calendar.

WParsons – Again, I am sorry to hear that you’re going through this too. It is so heartbreaking to watch. I have also started feeding more frequently (Quincy gets 2/3 cup, 3x a day now), but there seems to be *some* sort of link to bedtime, because he gets the attack around 9pm (which is only 3-4 hours after he ate dinner, so it shouldn’t be an empty stomach?). I’ll try the Pepcid again as well, I have some on hand just wasn’t sure it was really making a difference (GasX seems to maybe help more?).

Slappppy – Interesting that there is another cattledog with this condition (Quincy is a cattledog as well)! What type of bowl do you use that works well with wet food? I have been considering investing in something like that for Quincy, because it is hard to slow him down. I know what you mean about the differences – we call Quincy’s attacks either the “gulpies” or the “swallows” depending on their severity. The swallows can also escalate into the gulpies at times.

Steve Johnson – glad you found something that works! I will check that out, I have seen it in my web searches but thought that it might be a little gimmicky…I am basically willing to try anything though, it is terrible watching him when he doesn’t feel good!

Khouston – sorry to hear that your dog has this as well, but I am glad you found something that works! I understand about the landscaping – I was lucky and I’m still renting, so all I had to do was sacrifice my houseplants.

Mmt – I will ask my vet about Sulcrcate. I have tried using slippery elm in the past, I think it is supposed to be similar (you make up a paste for them to eat before food, it is supposed to coat the intestine).

Again, thank you ALL for your contributions to this!! It is wonderful to hear that some people have found some relief for this, so I will keep watching this thread. Give all your puppies a big hug, they are so lucky to have people who care this much for them!

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[Sully’sMom]

I just mistakenly posted this under a potato grain free forum…this is where I intended to go (that’s what I get for rushing while I’m at work!):

Hi all, I’ve been silent for a while. I did pose this question on a forum under Supplements, but thought I’d come back to my reliable group and post it here as well, as there’s always so much invaluable help and not sure if all the same parties participate in the different forums. Thank you for your indulgence:

Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). If anyone remembers us, we’ve been dealing with this for awhile, so this is actually a welcome finding – at least now we can proceed with some action! I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[Sully’sMom]

My dog Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[mmt]

I’m so glad this discussion has so many contributors. Hopefully people are finding something that helps.

I am the one that brought up the Chinese herbs. They aren’t working anymore. They were discontinued after a bad stretch, after Royal Canin decided to stop distributing a prescription food to a big chain. Thank you, RC. However, the vet I’m going to has some different herbs she would like to try.

I just wanted to add that the drug Sucralfate has been extremely helpful. From what I understand it has antacid properties and coats ulcerations in the throat and stomach. It is a pill that you make a into a slushy liquid. It has been a huge help, lifesaver, really.

We are trying acupuncture, again. Ugly side effects from the first treatment but are going to see if side effects lessen. It did work quite well once before. The vet, who knows Eastern and Western medicine, is hopeful. I’ve learned this is not going to go away but there are steps that can make it better, like the last contributor said. The other really helpful thing the vet told me is there is an acupressure point above the wrist (so 2 fingers above that big single top pad, on the arm). When I applied pressure to this, the results were pretty much instant. This was when stomach juices were violently trying to come up, over and over, terrible. So it was so fantastic to have something I could do to stop it, even if temporarily.

To KHouston, does your dog do the gagging/wretching/pseudo vomiting or just eat things frantically. I haven’t heard of anti-anxiety drugs working but, duh, of course. And that poor dog, 4 owners!?

It’s hard to read this thread because it makes me sad and upset reading your stories because I know how terrible it is. Good luck to everyone and thank you for not getting rid of your dogs due to this. 🙁

[Shasta220]

Can I vent on Beneful a little more, guys? I saw another commercial for it… They seriously know NOTHING about dog nutrition! They said “with wholesome dog-friendly ingredients like soy, wheat, chicken, and egg!” Then the pictures of grains is right there on the bag… I mean, heck, it looks good to people – must be good for my dog, who cares absolutely nothing about how fancy the picture is, what shape the Kibbles are, or what color the food is – right?

I wish people would somehow be forced to read even a paragraph on the basic NO-NO’s of dog nutrition. I’d bet Beneful would go outta business after that!

[theBCnut]

I don’t know who you talked to, but they were wrong, or lied. Some of their food is made at Ethos, as well as 3 other places, one of which is the SC Diamond plant, the one where all the recalled food comes from. And Canidae will NOT tell you how to tell which manufacturer made which bag of food. If you ask, they tell you “Canidae is Canidae.” Go read the Canidae Pure review for an very recent discussion on just exactly this.

[Shasta220]

We are looking around for ActiFlex 4000 for our dogs right now. It’s the only economical joint supplement that we can find so far… At $30-40 for 32oz (aka 64tbsp or 192tsp), I figured it’s better than $20 for a 15-20 day supply.

Anyway, how many mg of glucosamine should Cassy get? She’s a 12y.o. Labrador/GSD, weighing about 65lb.

Here’s the supplemental values of an ounce (2tbsp) of Actiflex:
Glucosamine Sulfate 8,000 mg.
Chondroitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
Type II Collagen 3,000 mg.
MSM 3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid) 1,000 mg.
Yucca 150 mg.
Hyaluronic Acid (HA) 125 mg.

One tsp has about 1,333mg glucosamine, so half as much chondroitin, etc. I think I’ve read somewhere that the suggested dosage for a dog her size would be 1/2tsp (1tsp for first week)… That’d be about 666mg glucosamine. Is that a good amount for her, or could she handle more?

There /is/ glucosamine/chondroitin in her food, but she gets barely 100mg of g and 15-20 of c, so it doesn’t do anything for her.

Thanks for the help! I’m really not looking for suggestions about a better supplement out there, because this is the only thing so far that will work with my wallet, as I’m an unemployed teenager who pays for all of Cassy’s extra supplements. I’m just wondering about proper dosage and what the max amount of glucosamine a senior 65lb pooch can get.

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[jenmac]

Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. My vet switched him to Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so and he has gained about 0.5 lbs. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s disease and this is what is probably going on with him. Some of his Cushing’s symptoms such as the excessive thirst and urination have abated so I am hopeful that the Cushing’s aspect of his disease is passing (which can happen with SARDS). Does anyone have any advice to offer for dogs with this disease? What food should little Bosco be eating? I’ve read articles that suggest some vision can be regained by switching to a raw diet. My vet has little experience with this disease. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs and has stayed there despite being on Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s.

[Tucker]

Hi Patty, RDM, and everyone who has been so helpful. Hope everyone is having a wonderful day wherever you hail from. I think Tucker’s OCD is making me OCD…lol

After reading everything here, following the links, talking to my breeder, my ortho surgeon who is the Pioneer of reconstructive surgery, and a bunch of stores, and an AKC trainer and show people I have finally come to a conclusion. To all of you newbies out there as overwhelmed as I am wanting to do the very very best for our kids I hope this helps you on your journey for perfection. I understand the madness 🙂

First anyone who is considering food from Costco… DONT! My Dr. was adamant about not using there food for all of the reasons that are listed in the thread. So if it helps anyone, that is what I got from the doctor’s mouth and he is old school conservative. As a side note, I asked about the antlers and he said he wasn’t as concerned about the calcium as the little horns or pieces breaking off and getting stuck in the gums and causing abscesses. he has gotten a couple. Who would of thought? just wanted to share the 411.

As for the food I am starting off with Earthborn Meadow Feast. You get grain free, perfect calcium balance and a slightly higher protein percentage than most of the standard stuff with grain. There seems to be a lot of problems with soft stool ramping the protein in such a jump so this should help for a smooth transition and eliminate both the chicken and grain as potential itchy causers.

Then jump to Earthborn Coastal Catch with 32% protein – same family of foods with a moderate protein jump. Best chance of easy transition.

If all goes well with the protein the we jump to the Wellness Core Puppy with 36%. Get a blend of meats and see how the itchies hold up. I’m guessing not an issue since his diet will be so well balanced he will be GLOWING by that point!

If there are any issues with soft poop from protein I will slide a bag of Dr. Tim’s Kenesis in there to stay at 26%.

Tucker is 4 months now so that rotation will take him to 8 months. Should I do another round to a year old or does the debate start all over again at that point lol 🙂 If all is good I would guess we head to the higher proteins for the 8-12 months and beyond? I am in Los Angeles so fortunately I can get just about anything.

As for toppers the store gave me samples of THK zeal, embark, and love. Now I see what you are talking about. That is quite expensive. But as a topper just a little here and there not bad at all. I also got a can of PetKind wild salmon and Lamb Tripe. Is anyone familiar with these? Are they OK?

I didn’t focus as much on the toppers reading, but figured that was the next step in the evolution here so I bought a few to get ready 🙂

I have small bags of other 5 star foods on the list that I am not going to use in the rotation. Is it OK to use those as training treats or best to stick with what he is eating.

Also if there are a few magic toppers or daily doses you all swear by I would love to know.

Thank you again for helping me figure this all out. It feels right and makes sense.

After speaking to everyone else out there I can confidently say there is no better place for nutritional advice than right here! Thanks

ps. how do we get a photo up there like some of you have? I would love for you all to meet Tuk

[Shasta220]

First off: I’m not concerned about my own dogs’ nutrition, they’re on a diet that works well for us and them.

A friend, on the other hand, thinks he’s giving his two 7y.o. GSDs the best and spoiling them (I don’t know how, but even his vet said their diet is good…). I’ve once told him about Nutra Nuggets, how it’s pretty good for its low price…he’s still convinced his dogs do great on their diet. Okay, what does he feed them? Beneful dry and Alpo/Pedigree canned…

It makes me sick whenever I go over there to feed the dogs, then I look at the ingredient label….ugggggh, how do those even qualify for ingredients?!? I was rather disappointed when he wouldn’t switch at least to Nutra Nuggets, since it’s a bit better quality AND it’s $25/40lb instead of $26/30lb… I was just kinda thinking “ahh it’d be a win-win in quality AND affordability!.

Anyway, he’s not really like me as far as studying out the premium nutrition/price, so I don’t really want to show him any articles that are super long. He’s also much much older than me, so it’s not like I’m just telling my pal to switch foods or anything… Most of all, I really don’t want to come across like “sir, you’re feeding your dogs garbage, get them off please!!!”

Any ideas to advise a food switch in the nicest, most respectful and sensitive way possible?

(Again, I really don’t need food-brand suggestions, as I already know the foods we do/don’t have around here, and the rough pricing of them…plus, getting him to switch to about anything will be better than Beneful and Alpo!)

[gsdmommy89]

Hi Rescue Dane Mom and anyone else

I haven’t tried Wellness on him. Personally for me (and this is my experience as I’ve worked in a Mom and Pops pet food store) big breed dogs don’t switch well to Wellness if not started very young. I wanted to try the Fromm Grain Free, but it is pricey in my opinion. His brother is not picky at all. He gets extremely excited when it’s feeding time no matter what he’s getting. As a matter of fact, his brother contracted Parvo at the beginning of October last year. After he recovered from it, that’s how he’s been with food. Overly excited. But my dog used to be like that, especially when he was a young puppy on Fromm. I’m not completely ruling out online ordering, but I feel better when I can physically touch the bag and read it before buying it. I feel limited also since there are so many 5 and 4 star foods that my local retailer carries but aren’t on HDM’s list. I figured I should just suck it up these 3 weeks that I still have left for him to turn 8 months so I can really expand into different foods like Merrick and other flavors of Nature’s Variety.

[Rambunctious]

Betsy,
Hi! Thanks for the honest kitchen recommendation! I looked it up- I’ll be honest- my husband flipped when I told him how much Dr. Tim’s was going to be- no way will be he okay with adding THK topper. I feel like Dr. Tim’s is fairly reasonable for what it is- I’ll order Dr. Tim’s online and rotate w/Fromms (gold puppy I think) which I can get locally.
Is there a reasonablely priced topper that maybe a big box store would carry that I can add a few scoops to? From what I’ve read- toppers are really a good think to add…moistens the kibble, extra protein, etc. so I don’t wanna skip it.
I’d love any feedback! I’ve got Walmart, tractor supply, Meijer, gladeiux and I can make a pet smart too ..

[RescueDaneMom]

My rottie just passed last month from lymphoma. When he was eating kibble he did really well on Acana Regionals. There are 4 grain-free varieties. Orijen is another great food made by the same company that makes Acana. Other grain-free foods we tried and liked were: Annamaet grain-free, Horizon Legacy, Go! Fit & Free Adult, and Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. Others I like but haven’t tried personally are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain-free and Victor grain-free.

Sometimes dogs eating kibble (and especially older dogs) can benefit from probiotics and digestive enzymes. I buy mine from swansonvitamins.com. They’re made for humans and pretty cheap. I get the regular Swanson brand digestive enzymes and Dr. Langer’s 15 strain probiotic (they’re buy 1 get 1 free right now). I crush the enzyme tablet and open the probioic capsule and mix it up in the food. You can add a little canned food, yogurt, canned pumpkin or something else so it is not just powder mixed with dry food. My almost 8 year old Great Dane is super regular and not very gassy at all. He doesn’t eat kibble but he gets probiotics and enzymes. A lot of people also like the Mercola pet enzymes and probiotics. They are more expensive but they are already in a convenient powder form.

Hope this is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

There are 3 reasons why the grain-inclusive Great Life didn’t make the list:
1- the calcium was too high.
2- the food is not 4 stars or above.
3- they didn’t respond to HDM’s inquiry about their actual calcium levels.

I’m not sure which one it was, but HDM said that if I food wasn’t on the list then it was because of one of the above reasons.

What are you still searching for? I would not be afraid to use the Wellness Core or NVI Turkey. I have to concur with Patty. The issue with growing large breed puppies is not protein. They need to grow slow and not have too much calcium. HDM has figured out the calcium for us with her list. As for slow growth, they can grow slow on high protein/high calorie foods but you can NOT overfeed them. If they get too many calories and grow too fast then you will run into problems. Regarding how much to feed- yes, you would feed less of a high protein/grain-free food because it has more calories. Those foods tend to be more calorically dense because they have more meat which means more fat and fat contains double the amount of calories as protein. If you fed a grain-inclusive the calories would probably be lower because there are more carbs (from the grains) and less fat. So you could feed more of a grain-inclusive. It depends on the dog. I had a rottie (passed last month from cancer) that acted hungry all the time no matter what food he was eating, grain-free or grain-inclusive. I suspect labs can be the same way. If I were you, I would start feeding the Wellness or NVI Turkey and see how he does on them. If he does well then great! Add those to a rotation list. Then you can try a grain-inclusive like Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and see how he does. If he does well on both types of food then I see no real reason to why he can’t eat grain-inclusive. You can alternate between grain-free and grain-inclusive foods.

That’s my 2 cents. I hope it helps alleviate some of the confusion. Here is a great article about large breed puppy growth by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/09/slow-growth-diets-for-giant-breed-puppy.aspx I feel like this is a great summary of what this whole thread is about and it explains it much better than I can.

[batgrrly]

Hello,
Recently we have had to reevaluate our dogs food for several reasons:
We were on California Natural, there was a recall
Dogs are older 12 and 13
Getting Over weight
Digestion

I am sure this happens a lot. However, the mysterious pebbles that started showing in the house we noticed after we started going grain-free. After reading many labels, and the success I had for a while with the cat, we were using Canidae Pure or Chicken and Rice. After reading all these articles about grains, even though our vet said rice was pretty safe for digestion, oatmeal even better, we were trying to get to the grain free to see if it helps with digestive issues.

Problem is, many of these foods have either legumes or potatoes as filler. Now, for old dogs that already have gas issues, I was not sure about the legumes. But I had read that potatoes, being in the nightshade family, can cause some food allergy issues for dogs. So I thought I would stick to one that did mostly legumes.

Then the large leavings began. And more frequenly. I then surmised that legumes were being too much roughage for the dogs. The the crazy things happened with our boy dog. He has DM and had been having trouble actually going because he had no control over his back end because of DM and actually went less frequent. Although, I have been told this is a blessing. Then after the change to the foods with legumes, we noticed that little friends started popping out while he was sleeping. The horror of it all! Then our girl do started leaving little poopets around. I think some of that is the, well if he can not be house trained anymore, than why should I?

Has anyone else had their canine pals have this problem after switching to grain free? I am thinking of trying to go for limited ingredients next and sticking with rice or oats. Hmmmm.

[Tucker]

Thank you Patty… Just when I thought I was good to go I run into the protein debate. 🙁

I went today and got a little bag of Wellness Puppy Core and NV LID Turnkey all on the list. Before I found you guys I had bought a bag of Great Life Chicken. I guess that is not grain free but shows lower protein.

Here is my sticking point. I have read all 59 pages 🙂 and now I am educated and confused as hell lol

My breeder of labs for 18 years was feeding Costco Salmon and Sweet Potato which is OK for puppies on the list but we have the Diamond Food recall issue. On her puppy packet she says, ” we don not fed puppy food because of the high protein in it. Pups and growing dogs do not need more than 24% protein in their diets. A large breed grows quickly and we want to make sure the joints keep up with the growth so no puppy food.”

You are in agreement with that part and the calcium levels are ok with that food. But the protein is low. Does she just not know. She said 18 years and she never has a problem with her dogs on that food. Who is right? The vet put me on Iams puppy lb and he started itching, so she put him on antibiotics and med shampoo. I feel like an idiot for giving him the pills so young but I listened to the dr. Everyone has a different opinion. I just want to do what is best. The amount of research that has been here is incredible and I am so appreciative to everyone that has taken the time to share their knowledge. Alas I feel I find myself in the same place as many newbies… over informed and over confused!

Do I look for a high end food that had the right calcium but lower protein as she says to cover both bases. The Great Life Chicken I have here and was going to start him on before I found you guys is 22%. Not grain free though. I guess the grains keep the protein levels down?

2 of the lower protein on the list get close to what she says and covers my calcium.

Earthborn Meadow Feast is 26%…
Dr Tims Kenesis is 26%

so if I understand… we adjust the quantity to compensate for the extra protein calories with a high protein food so he doesn’t grow to fast? That is what she is worried about. he is a lab and loves his food… wouldn’t it be better to give him a food with less protein and a larger quantity so he can chow down and feel full? or does it not work that way? Am I just filling the belly with wasted or unbalanced calories?

Tucker is a hoover… if I free fed him he would look like a basketball. I don’t think he would stop eating… 🙂

Right now he is 4 months and 32 pounds at last check (yellow lab male) Every vet that has looked at him says he is going to be a big boy! He is not rolly polly now. I think he looks good in the waste and ribs.

Just when I thought I had it… and I am stuck in the mud again. but now with 3 different bags of kibble at home that I am apprehensive to use 🙁

I hope I am not the only person that is this confused. You are all so patient with everyone. Sorry if I am driving you crazy.

But thank you soooo much for the help!!!!

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Badboris27]

:o) To be honest, when we heard about giving honey to the dogs, it made complete sense if you believe that allergies are the root cause. We were so desperate that we would have tried almost anything!

The impact of “something in this combination or the entire combination”, whether it be the honey, yogurt, non-poultry grain-free food and-or the vitamin, did have a very dramatic effect on our dogs. The sores that were so bad that they used to BLEED went away completely and their coats started “regenerating” for lack of a better word. The hair got thicker and a LOT softer. Prior to that, the ONLY progress we ever saw was when they were on antibiotics and steroids. When those medications were done, the problem always came back. Not anymore.

I’ve scoured the internet for information about giving honey & bee pollen to dogs since then and everything I’ve found has been very positive.

To your question – Yes, we will absolutely keep giving the honey because of the “micro-climate” area we live in (So Cal wine country, 25 miles inland of the coast and just at the edge of the desert – lot’s of variety in that). On top of that, a drought or a wet season can cause certain plant species to flourish while others don’t do as well. The local beekeepers must have a Co-Op of some sort because all of the raw, local wildflower honey in our stores is all packaged the same but some weeks it is darker, lighter, thicker or thinner. I suppose that depends on where that batch came from. My wife gets the honey at the smaller, natural stores and not the big name chains. Farmer’s market’s also have the local honey around here – and again, all packaged the same.

Lastly, the more I read the more that I keyed on the allergens getting into the feet. We walk our dogs 2x a day no matter what. Often, we’re out in nature on grass, in the weeds, in the dirt, in shrubs, bushes, whatever. Our vet taught me how to scrub their feet using 1 gallon Ziploc bags and I do that a few times a weeks (the theory here being that dogs walk and “spin” in all of that flora which puts everything deep in those pads…then, they lick them and lick their fur, etc.). Take two Ziplocs, fill each one about 1/4th of the way up w/ warm water. Squirt some shampoo in one of the bags for the “wash” cycle and leave the other one as-is for the rinse. Stick your dog’s foot in the wash bag and from the outside of the bag, use your fingers to work the shampoo in between the toes and up inside the pads. Rinse the same way and dry with a towel. My “dog kids” are used to it now and they actually LIKE it, I think!

I’m not a vet and I’m no expert at any of this. All I can attest to is that this worked for us. Like anyone else going through a canine allergy problem, I was ready to be fitted for a straight-jacket!

If ANYONE has any other questions or observations, I’d love to hear them or help if I can.

One other note, our dogs also used to be on Soloxine for a thyroid condition and we’ve been able to get off of that, too.

Best to you,

Jeff

[Badboris27]

Hi – While looking through dog food reviews at this wonderful site, I looked at the Forums section and stumbled across your email. I felt that I had to reply. For the past 2+ years, my wife and I have been dealing with dramatic skin issues with our 8+ year old Huskies. We’ve had severe loss of fur from round skin sores that become very aggravated and sometimes bloody. Yellow flaky material was found around the edges of the sores. Both of our dogs would lick these sores and make them even worse.

We tried EVERYTHING including sprays, Neosporin, special shampoos, bathing the dogs every week or two, changing foods, you name it.

Everything we read and everything we learned indicated that this entire issue was allergy-based. We had (and still have) no idea if it was airborne allergens or food allergies.

At this time, our oldest Husky, who’s condition was the worst, is completely free of ANY sort of skin issues and his coat has completely replenished itself. Our slightly younger female is making excellent progress on the same program. Here’s how things got better for our dogs, in a hurry:

A life long friend in Texas was fostering a dog in their home and it had significant skin issues, sores and hair loss. They called the shelter for whom they were fostering the dog and here’s the advice they were given:

1. “Allergy” dogs do REALLY well on grain-free food, GOOD quality dog food and especially one that is of a fish & sweet potato variety. “Alternate” protein sources like venison or bison are good, too. Stay away from chicken / poultry based food.
2. Give the dog a tablespoon of raw, LOCAL honey every morning and every evening. this helps their immune system adapt to allergenic pollens that get on their coat and in their feet. It MUST be LOCAL to get the pollens that are in your area.
3. Give the dog a tablespoon of unsweetened, plain yogurt every morning and every evening. The pro-biotics help their digestive system. We use “FAGE Total 0%”.
4. Help the dog’s immune system with a good quality multi-vitamin given per the manufacturers’ directions.
5. Shampoo as follows: Use a Benzoyl Peroxide Shampoo (“Vet Solutions” BPO-3 Shampoo for about $10 on Amazon) and next with a Hexadine shampoo (large bottle of Virbac brand is about $14 on Amazon).
6. Spot treatment is a good idea until the food-honey-yogurt-vitamin formula “kicks in”. We used “Virbac Chlorhexadine Gluconate Flush” from a local horse veterinary store. 12 oz was about $16.

After about 8-10 weeks, we have NO signs of any skin problems. This was such a relief after 2+ years of extreme frustration, anguish and expense.

The Texas shelter advised that extreme conditions could take up to four months as some dogs respond more slowly to the honey pollens.

Hope that this may be of help to you!

Jeff

[Mom2Cavs]

Oh my Lord, Patty….I thought I had a houseful!! I also love hearing about all of them. 🙂
You have my utmost respect in caring for all these animals. If I had enough room I would have tons more myself. I hope others chime in so I can read all about their animal friends.

Btw, Patty…my middle child, Kelly, works at a camp for special needs kids/adults in the summer and they have a mini horse there that is a therapy horse! She loves it! I have taken Stella to the camp, but haven’t taken Laverne and Hazel, yet, but I will. The kids love the dogs.

[Mom2Cavs]

Okay…I’ll go. Warning! It’s gonna be a long post LOL!

Lucy Mae – 12.5 year old adopted from a no-kill shelter 11.5 years ago. She’s a mix of Poodle/French Brittany/Chihuahua (finally did a DNA on her), is black and white and looks like a small Border Collie. She’s always weighed in at 24-25 lbs. According to the shelter she was found running in the road (by the shelter President on her way to work), was covered with dirt, oil, mud. She was only in the shelter a month when we adopted her. Didn’t know anything about dogs really and went looking for a puppy with the kids (14 and 12). My husband and I had always had cats. Anyway, we saw Lucy and decided to visit with her. I liked her looks and she was a smaller dog. She immediately put her paw on my leg in the visiting room! We also had a puppy brought in, which proceeded to jump all over Lucy, and wee in the middle of the floor LOL! Lucy was just very quiet and kept up with the paw….so the rest is history hahaha. The shelter was calling her Mae, because that was the month she came to them. They had another May…so. I didn’t especially like the name Mae for a first name (and I always give my animals middle names) so we decided on Lucy Mae. Lucy has done agility work/beginner competitions with me and rally obedience competitions (which she liked and did the best in). She has also been my demo dog when I’ve taught beginner obedience classes. Her temperament, however, has always been so-so. She didn’t know how to climb steps, or walk on carpet when we adopted her. She’s very protective of our house and tends to not like many other dogs, except her Cavvie ladies of course. I have been known to put a yellow ribbon on her leash when out and about, and at the dog club. About a year ago, Lucy developed a mass on her bladder. We decided no surgery (due to her acting very normal and her age). But, I feel it did undermine her immune system and this past Nov./Dec. she developed a very rare form of canine skin cancer called CETL (cutaneous epitheliotropic t-cell lymphoma). It only happens to old dogs (beginning around age 9 and up), no one knows what causes it, no treatments seem to help it and the prognosis is poor (6 mos. to 2 yrs. at most). Also, the dogs don’t seem to be bothered by it much and tend not to die with it per se, and usually the owner has to make the decision to put the dog down due to quality of life. We are taking Lucy Mae one day at a time now and have been blessed with her all these years!! She’s one great dog!

Hazel Louise – a 6.5 year old Black and Tan Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I will give a back story here: When my kids got older and didn’t need me as much I took a part time, 2 day a week, job at a local pet specialty store (which is now a Petco due to a buyout). I feel God led me to the job as it “fell into my lap”, so to speak. This is also where I became knowledgeable about pet nutrition. I had always wanted to do pet therapy work but my mixed breeds (Lucy and Desi (rip)) were not suited in temperament for it. One day I met a breeder of Cavaliers who came into the store monthly to buy their food. She said she had a 5 year old retired show champion that she would love to rehome, if she found the right one…..so….after a few more meetings with her, I finally went to her kennel and met Stella Agnes, my first Cavalier (a Blenheim). Stella was wonderful and I immediately had her certified to be a therapy dog with TDI. We did this for 5 years until Stella could no longer do it and I had a back issue. Stella passed away this past January 13, 2013 at 12 years of age, rip. While Stella was about 7 or 8 the breeder called me to say she had another Cavalier…Hazel, who was 2 years at the time, who she wanted to rehome. Hazel and her brother were purchased from a breeder in England to enhance my friend’s breeding line. When they took all the dogs to Ohio State to be seen by the specialists for testing, Hazel didn’t pass. She had a mild heart murmur, which is prevalent in Cavaliers. Even though she was going to be okay the breeder could not breed her. So, they didn’t really show her either. At age 2 they decided to give her a good home as a beloved pet, so she came to me! She did some therapy visits with me and Stella and did well on them…she’s a shyer dog, though. I was going to get her certified, but when I retired Stella I decided to just wait on it. Hazel is a great dog!!! She is so loving, and she is definitely my shadow. She is my best eater and though she tends to have dry skin in the winter, she is beautiful and shiny with a fish oil supplement. She weighs 19 lbs. and I keep her a perfect weight due to her murmur issue. She is not on any meds and the murmur hasn’t changed since she was 2, thank goodness! She is now certified as a therapy dog and does better than I’d expected due to her being a shyer dog. She has really come in to her own with it. I love Hazel Louise (Hazie as I like to call her) and I hope she continues to do well healthwise….she’s a very special dog!

Laverne Marie – Vernie (my nickname for her) is an 8.5 year old Ruby Cavalier who weighs 17 lbs. She came into our household 2.5 years ago right after my mixed breed Shih-Poo, Desi, passed away. I like to say he sent her to us, as she has some of his characteristics (only the good ones, thank goodness, as he was quite the stinker, lol). Anyway, when my Desi passed my husband told me to contact the breeder to see if she had a dog I could adopt. I wasn’t too sure yet but went ahead and made the call. She had one, Laverne, but she was actually promised to a couple where the wife had M.S. to be a companion for her. I was bummed but knew that perhaps it was for the best. However, God had other plans, and about a week later the breeder called me to say that the wife did not want Laverne and the husband didn’t want to keep her either, so they were returning her! She said she should’ve just given her to me in the first place :). I took Laverne home and she fit right in!! I now had 3 Cavaliers (Stella was still with us then) and Lucy Mae. I was in heaven! I joked the only thing I needed was a Tri and then I’d have a matched set. When Stella passed away, I started feeling like I should get back into therapy dog work. I also knew that Laverne would be great at it. She is actually from the breeder’s own kennel and has quite the personality, and is still loved by them, as is Hazel. We keep in touch still. She had 2 litters before I got her and was retired from show at age 6, the March before I adopted her in Sept. She is quite the jokester and is one of the lights of our lives! Very special dog indeed. I found a TDI testor and had Laverne certified this past Feb. 2013. In March 2013 Hazel was officially certified, as well. Now we visit a local hospital, library reading program and nursing homes. It is very fulfilling. Laverne and Hazel actually have the same birthday, Aug. 16th, and they are 2 years apart. For one of Laverne’s litters she was mated to Hazel’s brother, so they are sisters and sisters-in-law hahahahaha! I will always have a Cavalier from now on. If God deems it that I have another one while Lucy’s still alive, then that’s wonderful. If not, then I will actively seek another one (or two) when Lucy goes to the bridge. Btw, Lucy does like the Cavs…..sometimes I think she thinks they’re little divas lol. She is the alpha and lets them know it, but she loves them and takes care of them, too. 🙂

Princess Di – My Princie is going on 9 years old and is a Tortoise Shell cat who thinks she’s a dog! Princess first came into my oldest daughter’s life when she decided she needed a cat for company. She lived in Lima, Ohio at the time and was teaching H.S. math there. She didn’t have family close so she was sometimes lonely. One day I visited and we went to the local cat no-kill shelter. Princess had been there for around a year and a half! We adopted Princess (her name at the shelter, too) because she was very friendly and actually wanted to just stay on Erin’s lap the entire visiting time lol. Erin thought about changing her name but kept it when she found a food bowl at the pet store with Princess written inside of it …fate you know lol. Well, eventually Erin moved back to Bowling Green, Ohio where her fiancé was. But, she was moving in with some girlfriends and they couldn’t have pets. She asked me and her dad to keep Princess for her until she could take her back. I told her fine, but she needed to know that her dad would probably not give Princess back when that time came. He is definitely a cat lover. As you guessed it, he wouldn’t give her back! Now Erin has 2 other cats (Sheldon and Penny) and the rest is history. Princie gets along fine with the dogs and comes running when it’s dinner or treat time, just like they do! Very affectionate cat and very loved by all. 🙂

Now, I know this was long-winded and thanks if you read this far. I just wanted to tell you all the whole story. Bless you all!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 11 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[staxgrl]

Hey gang! I’ve been a reader for several months, but I’m just now ready to start making up my boys’ diets from scratch. I have 2 st. bernard/pyrenees mixes who are about 95 lbs each and a mutt who is about 45lbs. Big boys are 16 months-ish, little guy is around 9 months. Right now the big ones eat about 1600 calories a day and the little one eats around 750. I am happy with everyone’s weight, everybody has a nice tummy tuck and I can feel ribs under my fingers 🙂
Here are my planned menus, I am going to try and rotate in pork hearts and pork necks as well since those are readily available in bulk from my butcher. For now, I am out of room in my garage freezer 🙂 That said, I so appreciate/value your feedback on this. I know how much time and energy it takes to read through all the opinions/information on homemade raw diets, and your expertise is honestly priceless. I am so grateful for this forum. Here goes:

Hagrid/Ludo (95lb dogs)
1 large chicken quarter, bone-in (~1lb)
½ lb (8oz) gizzards
½ lb (8oz) heart
1oz liver
1oz kidney
2 eggs
¼ cup greek yogurt
2 cubes veggie blend
2 crushed multivitamins (one a day)
2 fish oil capsules (1200mg each)
200IU vitamin E (or 400IU every other day)

Debian (45lb dog)
1 small chicken quarter/drumstick (~1/2 lb)
¼ lb gizzards (4oz)
¼ lb heart (4oz)
½ oz liver
½ oz kidney
1 egg
1/8 cup greek yogurt
1 cube veggie blend
1 crushed multivitamin (one a day)
1 fish oil capsule (1200mg)
100IU vitamin E (or 200IU every other day)

veggie blend (steamed/blended and divided into ice cube trays):
2 bunches kale
1/2 lb carrots
1 apple
1 banana
1 sweet potato
4oz alfalfa sprouts

The menu is for a total day, it would be split up into 2 meals. I know that’s a kind of high percentage of heart, so I wanted to know if there were any opinions on that? And what about the veggie blend? This is a really simple recipe so I’m adding multivitamins to hopefully take care of any deficiencies. Thanks!

[Shasta220]

I will agree with Betsy a bit: breeding a dog is a lot of responsibility, and there are way too many pups out there who need homes already…I respect and understand breeding to improve a certain breed, or if there’s a possible accident (three of the four dogs I had came from “accidental” breedings)….

Anyways, the breeding happened, nothing anybody can do to change it…

I found some pages with info on care for a prenant dog. One says to use Alpo or Pedigree canned if she starts losing weight – if you’d need to add canned food, make sure it’s a quality brand, for sure.

http://www.2ndchance.info/pregnantdog.htm

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/breedingpregnancyguide.htm

My biggest advice is to keep doing your research on proper care. Acana sounds like a great food to be on, it’s full of lots of quality proteins and fats. Maybe even trying to add some raw meat to get her extra proteins/fats?

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Every vet I have been to with all my dogs recommends Royal Canin Feed for dogs. And I have to be straight up honest with you too…..

This whole dog food issue is driving me absolutely nuts but I study it like a beast and I read and read and read and this is what I have concluded in all that I have read, been advised to do, and from what I have seen first hand in all of….

The Raw diet, although I know that it can be really great and it does seem like the most natural thing to do for your dog. But this is also from my studies of it, know to be a fact……

First the whole reason you are reading this anyway because you like myself, want only the best for your dog and so you want to be absolutely sure your dog or pup is getting everything it needs and requires in it’s diet… And so yes….If you use absolute extreme caution in prep and storage and you get all of your ingredients from a for sure, organic farm and ranch. And if you want to be absolutely sure that your supplementation is correct that you are going to use. the only for sure way that you can do that is by having bloodwork ran on your dog and having a nutritional spectro analysis ran to know the correct amounts of each vitamin and nutrient is being met in his diet and then no one can argue that the Raw diet is a great way to go.

But… the big But word….. The downside to the Raw diet has been, that due to prep work and non organic ingredients being used and this has happen to people who are OCD about it…But it has led to some very serious bacteia infections in people’s dogs and has even caused death in dogs due to the bacteria present in raw food. This bacteria has caused dog’s intestines to actually sluff off the inner lining and pass blood so bad that if they made it through the IV treatment and antibiotics regime then they were fine or otherwise dwindled down and they died.

So the downfall to raw is obviously, the chance you take in that happing, the expense of the spectro analysis, not to mention food cost involved…

Then the super high tech foods that everyone reccomends… The stuff like Blue, Innova, Dr. whatever and all that list on here… They all have high cost, but at least because they were processed in a high temp. situation…The biggest majority of all bacteria has been removed from it. So that is not a worry…. But then you read and know people who have fed that feed and some dogs have bleeding problems associated with it because of the high protien involved in it… Or whatever causes it….. It is not a rarity either….

Then a big push by folks for this food is they say that is like the food that animals in the wild eat and so let me say this as a country boy to as well as being an avid predator hunter, I have never in my life, seen wolves nor coyotes…..Ever eating carrots, blueberries, potatoes, kelp, etc. So in reality then….What is a person to think???? Not like a wild animals diet at all….

Then you come to the more old tried and true….The per say….Puppy Chows and High Pros and the Iams and Eukanubas etc. and yet more and more people are having their precious dogs come down with all different kinds of cancers and tumors. And for me being an avid reader of medical stuff in humans and from all I have read about Monsanto and the genetically mutated corn and the serious ill effects and cancer causing issues they have had in humans because of it….Then it also makes me extremely leery of any pet product containing any corn or corn by product….But yet, even myself I had to learn from folks on here of the ill effects of non-regulated calcium uptake in puppies, especially large breeds and yet I have never raised a lab pup that I didn’t put milk replacer or powdered milk in their food when I feed them…

So needless to say…..It is a very scary world out there for all of us as pet owners…. But one thing I have learned about some vets is…. They like doctors will treat a dog, until you say this is enough and I have been there some times before myself. So one thing I have learned and also saved many a dog with even those who had been left to die of parvo is if you are truly serious about your dog as much as most of us are on here. I will share my country boy diet that has saved quite a few dogs, exhibiting the very same symptoms your dogs is showing…

Go to a local rancher/farmer who raises ducks or chickens near you and and one who lets them fend for them selves for feed and buy them. Then butcher the ducks and boil them down to pieces and I mean everything….the livers and gizzrds and hearts and then add cooked organic brown rice or even quinoa and feed your dog exclusively on that for at least several weeks or even a month after all signs of bleeding ceases to exist in his stool…. As well as, only allow him or her to drink only alkaline water. If you have to buy it….I know Fiji water is akaline but it is also fairly expensive.

Then I would also add 3 capsules of tumeric or curcumin which is the same thing, to his food daily everday and continue that from there on cutting back to one to two capsules a day after he is healed. You can get this at any health food store or pharmacy…

If your dog were showing any signs of weight loss or delapidation in any ways whatsoever…. As I did in the ones that had parvo, I would also recommend adding acidophilus to his food as well as Goat colostrum and I can tell you, your dog’s bleeding should stop within a 4 to 5 days and he will be well on his way to recovery although I would recommend keeping him on the chicken and brown rice regime for at least a month and then begin to transition over to what ever food you want him to be on from then on, always watching closely for any recurrance of bllod in the stool.

Myself I would use the Goat Colostrum and Acidophilus anyway if money permitted regardless of weight loss or not…. But anyway if you couldand if you really wanted to recharge his system as well…. I would keep him on the acidophilus, tumeric and Goat colostrum for at least several months afterwards and then I would also start adding high flora yogurt to his feed when the bleeding stops…

I am not an expert by any means, but I am just a country boy who loves animals and refuses to watch any animal die if I can stop it. I will be honest…. I have lost faith in the medical field when it comes to humans and am quickly losing for the veterinarian field as well due to drug manufacturers and feed manufacturers getting in some of their pockets….

Yiour are well blessed if you have a vet who is in it for all of the right reasons… Very few and very far between… The love of money is the root of all evil and yes it has creeped down into the Vet world as well.

[kms]

Hi all! Just wanted to post an update on Augie and really need advice again. My vet has done all he can do to get rid of the Campylobactor bacteria. First, he put Augie on Marbofloxcin – which I opposed after reading about adverse effects on large breed puppies. After 4 days with no change in stool, we switched to Clavamox. Did 1 round. The stool is the same (1st part is formed, 2nd part runny). So vet sent us to an Internal Medicine specialist. Specialist did exam and sent bloodwork to Texas A&M for a CBC panel, profile and GI Panel. All bloodwork normal – TLI and Folate were fine and no pancreatic inflammation. Specialist thinks this is likely Inflammatory Bowel Disease. She suggested doing a biopsy of the large and small intestine (either a Biopsy via surgery or Biopsy via Endoscope). I asked if we could try elimination or hypoallergenic diet to see if the IBD is due to diet and she said “since he’s not losing weight, I’d be ok with that – but wouldn’t know anything for couple months”. If we go that route, she recommends Royal Canin HP (hydrolyzed protein; hypoallergenic, soy based protein). I asked about treating IBD with RAW or at least with a more premium limited ingredient food and she had no experience/opinion there.

I worry about him being only 7 mo old and having to go through all this. Can pups really have true IBD this young? My gut is telling me to change the diet, but I could end up spending 2-3 more months on something that doesn’t pan out for him. What do you think? Has anyone ever fed Royal Canin HP for GI issues? It’s only 19% protein (soy) and rice is the first ingredient. I thought grains were bad for dogs with IBD, colitus, etc. It does, however, have ok calcium levels (2.5 mg/1,000 kcal) and it’s approved for all life stages.

Thanks for any advice or insight….

[Shasta220]

I concure A.Sandy for sure! The more you can look around and compare prices, the better chance you have at being successful with your dogs’ nutrition! I would go to feed stores, Walmart, and Fred Meyers (basically the same as Walmart, just a bit more of “premium” products for everything)…no PetCo/petsmart around here. I would just sit and read ingredient labels and price take. Then I’d make a mental note of brands that really stuck out to me (ones that had the perfect balance of price and ingredients), then I’d go home and research the brands out. I ended up w a 3 star food that we only had to spend about $20/month on (we had 3 dogs at time…they weighed between 45 and 90lb. Now the 90lb guy passed tragically, so we ended up w a 40lb rescue with newly discovered severe social/anxiety problems. Woot woot…no agility for him. UGH!)

[Shasta220]

Shasta is about 6y.o. He never used to smell bad (other than an average “doggie” scent, of course!)… But the past few months, he’s had a constant odor. Bathing helps a little (I usually use Dawn mixed with some organic rosemary-mint shampoo, then follow w a conditioner so his fur doesn’t get flaky), but even if I let the shampoo sit for 5-10min, I can smell faint amounts of the foul smell. I also doubt it’s anything to do with his food, he was on dog chow back when he didn’t stink at all…now he’s on Diamond naturals and still stinks.

Are there any supplements that help with odor? We tried Brewers yeast, Fish oil, and raw eggs. None helped any.

I also can’t afford much to be honest, I already have 3 dogs, cats, a cow, a pony, chickens, and ducks to feed…not much wiggle room in the budget.

[theBCnut]

“Why would a company be listed there that has continuous issues with recalls and salmonella contamination (such as Innova, Merrick, etc…to name a couple). I am just bringing up a valid argument.”

Since this statement is utterly false, how can this be a valid argument? Neither Innova or Merrick has had continuous issues with recalls of any kind. If you go up to the red bar at the top, you will find the library. There is an article titled “How We Rate Dog Food.” You should read it. And you should also keep in mind that there is no method by which a future recall can be predicted. Past recalls are not a reliable indicator. Many companies have had a single recall and never had another.

As far as renal failure goes, do a little more research. Excess protein does not cause renal failure.

As for the rise in allergies, I have seen allergies increasing over a much longer period of time than that. Whether it’s from poor breeding practices, environmental pollutants affecting the immune system(my personal favorite theory), or sourcing of dog food ingredients, I don’t think anyone really knows yet.

As far as dog food companies go, they are businesses. They are in it to make money. There are a few that seem to actually want to do their best for dogs, but most are definitely only in it for the money, nothing else.

Statistically speaking, 20% of all dog foods will get a 1 star rating, 20% will get a 2 star rating, etc. If 20% are going to get a 5 star rating and there are very few truly great foods, it stands to reason that some of the foods on the 5 star list(a great deal of them) will not be top notch. Of course, my standards definitely aren’t yours. In fact I would go so far as to say this is not the site for you, because our feeding philosophy is definitely not yours.