[mmt]

I’m so glad this discussion has so many contributors. Hopefully people are finding something that helps.

I am the one that brought up the Chinese herbs. They aren’t working anymore. They were discontinued after a bad stretch, after Royal Canin decided to stop distributing a prescription food to a big chain. Thank you, RC. However, the vet I’m going to has some different herbs she would like to try.

I just wanted to add that the drug Sucralfate has been extremely helpful. From what I understand it has antacid properties and coats ulcerations in the throat and stomach. It is a pill that you make a into a slushy liquid. It has been a huge help, lifesaver, really.

We are trying acupuncture, again. Ugly side effects from the first treatment but are going to see if side effects lessen. It did work quite well once before. The vet, who knows Eastern and Western medicine, is hopeful. I’ve learned this is not going to go away but there are steps that can make it better, like the last contributor said. The other really helpful thing the vet told me is there is an acupressure point above the wrist (so 2 fingers above that big single top pad, on the arm). When I applied pressure to this, the results were pretty much instant. This was when stomach juices were violently trying to come up, over and over, terrible. So it was so fantastic to have something I could do to stop it, even if temporarily.

To KHouston, does your dog do the gagging/wretching/pseudo vomiting or just eat things frantically. I haven’t heard of anti-anxiety drugs working but, duh, of course. And that poor dog, 4 owners!?

It’s hard to read this thread because it makes me sad and upset reading your stories because I know how terrible it is. Good luck to everyone and thank you for not getting rid of your dogs due to this. 🙁

[Shasta220]

Can I vent on Beneful a little more, guys? I saw another commercial for it… They seriously know NOTHING about dog nutrition! They said “with wholesome dog-friendly ingredients like soy, wheat, chicken, and egg!” Then the pictures of grains is right there on the bag… I mean, heck, it looks good to people – must be good for my dog, who cares absolutely nothing about how fancy the picture is, what shape the Kibbles are, or what color the food is – right?

I wish people would somehow be forced to read even a paragraph on the basic NO-NO’s of dog nutrition. I’d bet Beneful would go outta business after that!

[theBCnut]

I don’t know who you talked to, but they were wrong, or lied. Some of their food is made at Ethos, as well as 3 other places, one of which is the SC Diamond plant, the one where all the recalled food comes from. And Canidae will NOT tell you how to tell which manufacturer made which bag of food. If you ask, they tell you “Canidae is Canidae.” Go read the Canidae Pure review for an very recent discussion on just exactly this.

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[jenmac]

Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. My vet switched him to Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so and he has gained about 0.5 lbs. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s disease and this is what is probably going on with him. Some of his Cushing’s symptoms such as the excessive thirst and urination have abated so I am hopeful that the Cushing’s aspect of his disease is passing (which can happen with SARDS). Does anyone have any advice to offer for dogs with this disease? What food should little Bosco be eating? I’ve read articles that suggest some vision can be regained by switching to a raw diet. My vet has little experience with this disease. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!Hi, my 9 year old neutered male Maltese Bosco recently lost his vision. He was diagnosed with Sudden Acquired Retinal Degenerative Syndrome a couple of days ago. In September he went from 9 lbs to 12 lbs and since that time he has gone to 14 lbs and has stayed there despite being on Science Diet Metabolic food for the last 5 weeks or so. His blood work, done in October was all normal, including a thyroid panel. Before the weight gain he was on Acana and then I switched him to Acana Light in October but this made little difference. One symptom of SARDS is Cushing’s.

[Tucker]

Hi Patty, RDM, and everyone who has been so helpful. Hope everyone is having a wonderful day wherever you hail from. I think Tucker’s OCD is making me OCD…lol

After reading everything here, following the links, talking to my breeder, my ortho surgeon who is the Pioneer of reconstructive surgery, and a bunch of stores, and an AKC trainer and show people I have finally come to a conclusion. To all of you newbies out there as overwhelmed as I am wanting to do the very very best for our kids I hope this helps you on your journey for perfection. I understand the madness 🙂

First anyone who is considering food from Costco… DONT! My Dr. was adamant about not using there food for all of the reasons that are listed in the thread. So if it helps anyone, that is what I got from the doctor’s mouth and he is old school conservative. As a side note, I asked about the antlers and he said he wasn’t as concerned about the calcium as the little horns or pieces breaking off and getting stuck in the gums and causing abscesses. he has gotten a couple. Who would of thought? just wanted to share the 411.

As for the food I am starting off with Earthborn Meadow Feast. You get grain free, perfect calcium balance and a slightly higher protein percentage than most of the standard stuff with grain. There seems to be a lot of problems with soft stool ramping the protein in such a jump so this should help for a smooth transition and eliminate both the chicken and grain as potential itchy causers.

Then jump to Earthborn Coastal Catch with 32% protein – same family of foods with a moderate protein jump. Best chance of easy transition.

If all goes well with the protein the we jump to the Wellness Core Puppy with 36%. Get a blend of meats and see how the itchies hold up. I’m guessing not an issue since his diet will be so well balanced he will be GLOWING by that point!

If there are any issues with soft poop from protein I will slide a bag of Dr. Tim’s Kenesis in there to stay at 26%.

Tucker is 4 months now so that rotation will take him to 8 months. Should I do another round to a year old or does the debate start all over again at that point lol 🙂 If all is good I would guess we head to the higher proteins for the 8-12 months and beyond? I am in Los Angeles so fortunately I can get just about anything.

As for toppers the store gave me samples of THK zeal, embark, and love. Now I see what you are talking about. That is quite expensive. But as a topper just a little here and there not bad at all. I also got a can of PetKind wild salmon and Lamb Tripe. Is anyone familiar with these? Are they OK?

I didn’t focus as much on the toppers reading, but figured that was the next step in the evolution here so I bought a few to get ready 🙂

I have small bags of other 5 star foods on the list that I am not going to use in the rotation. Is it OK to use those as training treats or best to stick with what he is eating.

Also if there are a few magic toppers or daily doses you all swear by I would love to know.

Thank you again for helping me figure this all out. It feels right and makes sense.

After speaking to everyone else out there I can confidently say there is no better place for nutritional advice than right here! Thanks

ps. how do we get a photo up there like some of you have? I would love for you all to meet Tuk

[Shasta220]

First off: I’m not concerned about my own dogs’ nutrition, they’re on a diet that works well for us and them.

A friend, on the other hand, thinks he’s giving his two 7y.o. GSDs the best and spoiling them (I don’t know how, but even his vet said their diet is good…). I’ve once told him about Nutra Nuggets, how it’s pretty good for its low price…he’s still convinced his dogs do great on their diet. Okay, what does he feed them? Beneful dry and Alpo/Pedigree canned…

It makes me sick whenever I go over there to feed the dogs, then I look at the ingredient label….ugggggh, how do those even qualify for ingredients?!? I was rather disappointed when he wouldn’t switch at least to Nutra Nuggets, since it’s a bit better quality AND it’s $25/40lb instead of $26/30lb… I was just kinda thinking “ahh it’d be a win-win in quality AND affordability!.

Anyway, he’s not really like me as far as studying out the premium nutrition/price, so I don’t really want to show him any articles that are super long. He’s also much much older than me, so it’s not like I’m just telling my pal to switch foods or anything… Most of all, I really don’t want to come across like “sir, you’re feeding your dogs garbage, get them off please!!!”

Any ideas to advise a food switch in the nicest, most respectful and sensitive way possible?

(Again, I really don’t need food-brand suggestions, as I already know the foods we do/don’t have around here, and the rough pricing of them…plus, getting him to switch to about anything will be better than Beneful and Alpo!)

[gsdmommy89]

Hi Rescue Dane Mom and anyone else

I haven’t tried Wellness on him. Personally for me (and this is my experience as I’ve worked in a Mom and Pops pet food store) big breed dogs don’t switch well to Wellness if not started very young. I wanted to try the Fromm Grain Free, but it is pricey in my opinion. His brother is not picky at all. He gets extremely excited when it’s feeding time no matter what he’s getting. As a matter of fact, his brother contracted Parvo at the beginning of October last year. After he recovered from it, that’s how he’s been with food. Overly excited. But my dog used to be like that, especially when he was a young puppy on Fromm. I’m not completely ruling out online ordering, but I feel better when I can physically touch the bag and read it before buying it. I feel limited also since there are so many 5 and 4 star foods that my local retailer carries but aren’t on HDM’s list. I figured I should just suck it up these 3 weeks that I still have left for him to turn 8 months so I can really expand into different foods like Merrick and other flavors of Nature’s Variety.

[Rambunctious]

Betsy,
Hi! Thanks for the honest kitchen recommendation! I looked it up- I’ll be honest- my husband flipped when I told him how much Dr. Tim’s was going to be- no way will be he okay with adding THK topper. I feel like Dr. Tim’s is fairly reasonable for what it is- I’ll order Dr. Tim’s online and rotate w/Fromms (gold puppy I think) which I can get locally.
Is there a reasonablely priced topper that maybe a big box store would carry that I can add a few scoops to? From what I’ve read- toppers are really a good think to add…moistens the kibble, extra protein, etc. so I don’t wanna skip it.
I’d love any feedback! I’ve got Walmart, tractor supply, Meijer, gladeiux and I can make a pet smart too ..

[RescueDaneMom]

My rottie just passed last month from lymphoma. When he was eating kibble he did really well on Acana Regionals. There are 4 grain-free varieties. Orijen is another great food made by the same company that makes Acana. Other grain-free foods we tried and liked were: Annamaet grain-free, Horizon Legacy, Go! Fit & Free Adult, and Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural. Others I like but haven’t tried personally are Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain-free and Victor grain-free.

Sometimes dogs eating kibble (and especially older dogs) can benefit from probiotics and digestive enzymes. I buy mine from swansonvitamins.com. They’re made for humans and pretty cheap. I get the regular Swanson brand digestive enzymes and Dr. Langer’s 15 strain probiotic (they’re buy 1 get 1 free right now). I crush the enzyme tablet and open the probioic capsule and mix it up in the food. You can add a little canned food, yogurt, canned pumpkin or something else so it is not just powder mixed with dry food. My almost 8 year old Great Dane is super regular and not very gassy at all. He doesn’t eat kibble but he gets probiotics and enzymes. A lot of people also like the Mercola pet enzymes and probiotics. They are more expensive but they are already in a convenient powder form.

Hope this is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

There are 3 reasons why the grain-inclusive Great Life didn’t make the list:
1- the calcium was too high.
2- the food is not 4 stars or above.
3- they didn’t respond to HDM’s inquiry about their actual calcium levels.

I’m not sure which one it was, but HDM said that if I food wasn’t on the list then it was because of one of the above reasons.

What are you still searching for? I would not be afraid to use the Wellness Core or NVI Turkey. I have to concur with Patty. The issue with growing large breed puppies is not protein. They need to grow slow and not have too much calcium. HDM has figured out the calcium for us with her list. As for slow growth, they can grow slow on high protein/high calorie foods but you can NOT overfeed them. If they get too many calories and grow too fast then you will run into problems. Regarding how much to feed- yes, you would feed less of a high protein/grain-free food because it has more calories. Those foods tend to be more calorically dense because they have more meat which means more fat and fat contains double the amount of calories as protein. If you fed a grain-inclusive the calories would probably be lower because there are more carbs (from the grains) and less fat. So you could feed more of a grain-inclusive. It depends on the dog. I had a rottie (passed last month from cancer) that acted hungry all the time no matter what food he was eating, grain-free or grain-inclusive. I suspect labs can be the same way. If I were you, I would start feeding the Wellness or NVI Turkey and see how he does on them. If he does well then great! Add those to a rotation list. Then you can try a grain-inclusive like Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and see how he does. If he does well on both types of food then I see no real reason to why he can’t eat grain-inclusive. You can alternate between grain-free and grain-inclusive foods.

That’s my 2 cents. I hope it helps alleviate some of the confusion. Here is a great article about large breed puppy growth by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/09/slow-growth-diets-for-giant-breed-puppy.aspx I feel like this is a great summary of what this whole thread is about and it explains it much better than I can.

[batgrrly]

Hello,
Recently we have had to reevaluate our dogs food for several reasons:
We were on California Natural, there was a recall
Dogs are older 12 and 13
Getting Over weight
Digestion

I am sure this happens a lot. However, the mysterious pebbles that started showing in the house we noticed after we started going grain-free. After reading many labels, and the success I had for a while with the cat, we were using Canidae Pure or Chicken and Rice. After reading all these articles about grains, even though our vet said rice was pretty safe for digestion, oatmeal even better, we were trying to get to the grain free to see if it helps with digestive issues.

Problem is, many of these foods have either legumes or potatoes as filler. Now, for old dogs that already have gas issues, I was not sure about the legumes. But I had read that potatoes, being in the nightshade family, can cause some food allergy issues for dogs. So I thought I would stick to one that did mostly legumes.

Then the large leavings began. And more frequenly. I then surmised that legumes were being too much roughage for the dogs. The the crazy things happened with our boy dog. He has DM and had been having trouble actually going because he had no control over his back end because of DM and actually went less frequent. Although, I have been told this is a blessing. Then after the change to the foods with legumes, we noticed that little friends started popping out while he was sleeping. The horror of it all! Then our girl do started leaving little poopets around. I think some of that is the, well if he can not be house trained anymore, than why should I?

Has anyone else had their canine pals have this problem after switching to grain free? I am thinking of trying to go for limited ingredients next and sticking with rice or oats. Hmmmm.

[Tucker]

Thank you Patty… Just when I thought I was good to go I run into the protein debate. 🙁

I went today and got a little bag of Wellness Puppy Core and NV LID Turnkey all on the list. Before I found you guys I had bought a bag of Great Life Chicken. I guess that is not grain free but shows lower protein.

Here is my sticking point. I have read all 59 pages 🙂 and now I am educated and confused as hell lol

My breeder of labs for 18 years was feeding Costco Salmon and Sweet Potato which is OK for puppies on the list but we have the Diamond Food recall issue. On her puppy packet she says, ” we don not fed puppy food because of the high protein in it. Pups and growing dogs do not need more than 24% protein in their diets. A large breed grows quickly and we want to make sure the joints keep up with the growth so no puppy food.”

You are in agreement with that part and the calcium levels are ok with that food. But the protein is low. Does she just not know. She said 18 years and she never has a problem with her dogs on that food. Who is right? The vet put me on Iams puppy lb and he started itching, so she put him on antibiotics and med shampoo. I feel like an idiot for giving him the pills so young but I listened to the dr. Everyone has a different opinion. I just want to do what is best. The amount of research that has been here is incredible and I am so appreciative to everyone that has taken the time to share their knowledge. Alas I feel I find myself in the same place as many newbies… over informed and over confused!

Do I look for a high end food that had the right calcium but lower protein as she says to cover both bases. The Great Life Chicken I have here and was going to start him on before I found you guys is 22%. Not grain free though. I guess the grains keep the protein levels down?

2 of the lower protein on the list get close to what she says and covers my calcium.

Earthborn Meadow Feast is 26%…
Dr Tims Kenesis is 26%

so if I understand… we adjust the quantity to compensate for the extra protein calories with a high protein food so he doesn’t grow to fast? That is what she is worried about. he is a lab and loves his food… wouldn’t it be better to give him a food with less protein and a larger quantity so he can chow down and feel full? or does it not work that way? Am I just filling the belly with wasted or unbalanced calories?

Tucker is a hoover… if I free fed him he would look like a basketball. I don’t think he would stop eating… 🙂

Right now he is 4 months and 32 pounds at last check (yellow lab male) Every vet that has looked at him says he is going to be a big boy! He is not rolly polly now. I think he looks good in the waste and ribs.

Just when I thought I had it… and I am stuck in the mud again. but now with 3 different bags of kibble at home that I am apprehensive to use 🙁

I hope I am not the only person that is this confused. You are all so patient with everyone. Sorry if I am driving you crazy.

But thank you soooo much for the help!!!!

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Badboris27]

:o) To be honest, when we heard about giving honey to the dogs, it made complete sense if you believe that allergies are the root cause. We were so desperate that we would have tried almost anything!

The impact of “something in this combination or the entire combination”, whether it be the honey, yogurt, non-poultry grain-free food and-or the vitamin, did have a very dramatic effect on our dogs. The sores that were so bad that they used to BLEED went away completely and their coats started “regenerating” for lack of a better word. The hair got thicker and a LOT softer. Prior to that, the ONLY progress we ever saw was when they were on antibiotics and steroids. When those medications were done, the problem always came back. Not anymore.

I’ve scoured the internet for information about giving honey & bee pollen to dogs since then and everything I’ve found has been very positive.

To your question – Yes, we will absolutely keep giving the honey because of the “micro-climate” area we live in (So Cal wine country, 25 miles inland of the coast and just at the edge of the desert – lot’s of variety in that). On top of that, a drought or a wet season can cause certain plant species to flourish while others don’t do as well. The local beekeepers must have a Co-Op of some sort because all of the raw, local wildflower honey in our stores is all packaged the same but some weeks it is darker, lighter, thicker or thinner. I suppose that depends on where that batch came from. My wife gets the honey at the smaller, natural stores and not the big name chains. Farmer’s market’s also have the local honey around here – and again, all packaged the same.

Lastly, the more I read the more that I keyed on the allergens getting into the feet. We walk our dogs 2x a day no matter what. Often, we’re out in nature on grass, in the weeds, in the dirt, in shrubs, bushes, whatever. Our vet taught me how to scrub their feet using 1 gallon Ziploc bags and I do that a few times a weeks (the theory here being that dogs walk and “spin” in all of that flora which puts everything deep in those pads…then, they lick them and lick their fur, etc.). Take two Ziplocs, fill each one about 1/4th of the way up w/ warm water. Squirt some shampoo in one of the bags for the “wash” cycle and leave the other one as-is for the rinse. Stick your dog’s foot in the wash bag and from the outside of the bag, use your fingers to work the shampoo in between the toes and up inside the pads. Rinse the same way and dry with a towel. My “dog kids” are used to it now and they actually LIKE it, I think!

I’m not a vet and I’m no expert at any of this. All I can attest to is that this worked for us. Like anyone else going through a canine allergy problem, I was ready to be fitted for a straight-jacket!

If ANYONE has any other questions or observations, I’d love to hear them or help if I can.

One other note, our dogs also used to be on Soloxine for a thyroid condition and we’ve been able to get off of that, too.

Best to you,

Jeff

[Badboris27]

Hi – While looking through dog food reviews at this wonderful site, I looked at the Forums section and stumbled across your email. I felt that I had to reply. For the past 2+ years, my wife and I have been dealing with dramatic skin issues with our 8+ year old Huskies. We’ve had severe loss of fur from round skin sores that become very aggravated and sometimes bloody. Yellow flaky material was found around the edges of the sores. Both of our dogs would lick these sores and make them even worse.

We tried EVERYTHING including sprays, Neosporin, special shampoos, bathing the dogs every week or two, changing foods, you name it.

Everything we read and everything we learned indicated that this entire issue was allergy-based. We had (and still have) no idea if it was airborne allergens or food allergies.

At this time, our oldest Husky, who’s condition was the worst, is completely free of ANY sort of skin issues and his coat has completely replenished itself. Our slightly younger female is making excellent progress on the same program. Here’s how things got better for our dogs, in a hurry:

A life long friend in Texas was fostering a dog in their home and it had significant skin issues, sores and hair loss. They called the shelter for whom they were fostering the dog and here’s the advice they were given:

1. “Allergy” dogs do REALLY well on grain-free food, GOOD quality dog food and especially one that is of a fish & sweet potato variety. “Alternate” protein sources like venison or bison are good, too. Stay away from chicken / poultry based food.
2. Give the dog a tablespoon of raw, LOCAL honey every morning and every evening. this helps their immune system adapt to allergenic pollens that get on their coat and in their feet. It MUST be LOCAL to get the pollens that are in your area.
3. Give the dog a tablespoon of unsweetened, plain yogurt every morning and every evening. The pro-biotics help their digestive system. We use “FAGE Total 0%”.
4. Help the dog’s immune system with a good quality multi-vitamin given per the manufacturers’ directions.
5. Shampoo as follows: Use a Benzoyl Peroxide Shampoo (“Vet Solutions” BPO-3 Shampoo for about $10 on Amazon) and next with a Hexadine shampoo (large bottle of Virbac brand is about $14 on Amazon).
6. Spot treatment is a good idea until the food-honey-yogurt-vitamin formula “kicks in”. We used “Virbac Chlorhexadine Gluconate Flush” from a local horse veterinary store. 12 oz was about $16.

After about 8-10 weeks, we have NO signs of any skin problems. This was such a relief after 2+ years of extreme frustration, anguish and expense.

The Texas shelter advised that extreme conditions could take up to four months as some dogs respond more slowly to the honey pollens.

Hope that this may be of help to you!

Jeff

[Mom2Cavs]

Oh my Lord, Patty….I thought I had a houseful!! I also love hearing about all of them. 🙂
You have my utmost respect in caring for all these animals. If I had enough room I would have tons more myself. I hope others chime in so I can read all about their animal friends.

Btw, Patty…my middle child, Kelly, works at a camp for special needs kids/adults in the summer and they have a mini horse there that is a therapy horse! She loves it! I have taken Stella to the camp, but haven’t taken Laverne and Hazel, yet, but I will. The kids love the dogs.

[Mom2Cavs]

Okay…I’ll go. Warning! It’s gonna be a long post LOL!

Lucy Mae – 12.5 year old adopted from a no-kill shelter 11.5 years ago. She’s a mix of Poodle/French Brittany/Chihuahua (finally did a DNA on her), is black and white and looks like a small Border Collie. She’s always weighed in at 24-25 lbs. According to the shelter she was found running in the road (by the shelter President on her way to work), was covered with dirt, oil, mud. She was only in the shelter a month when we adopted her. Didn’t know anything about dogs really and went looking for a puppy with the kids (14 and 12). My husband and I had always had cats. Anyway, we saw Lucy and decided to visit with her. I liked her looks and she was a smaller dog. She immediately put her paw on my leg in the visiting room! We also had a puppy brought in, which proceeded to jump all over Lucy, and wee in the middle of the floor LOL! Lucy was just very quiet and kept up with the paw….so the rest is history hahaha. The shelter was calling her Mae, because that was the month she came to them. They had another May…so. I didn’t especially like the name Mae for a first name (and I always give my animals middle names) so we decided on Lucy Mae. Lucy has done agility work/beginner competitions with me and rally obedience competitions (which she liked and did the best in). She has also been my demo dog when I’ve taught beginner obedience classes. Her temperament, however, has always been so-so. She didn’t know how to climb steps, or walk on carpet when we adopted her. She’s very protective of our house and tends to not like many other dogs, except her Cavvie ladies of course. I have been known to put a yellow ribbon on her leash when out and about, and at the dog club. About a year ago, Lucy developed a mass on her bladder. We decided no surgery (due to her acting very normal and her age). But, I feel it did undermine her immune system and this past Nov./Dec. she developed a very rare form of canine skin cancer called CETL (cutaneous epitheliotropic t-cell lymphoma). It only happens to old dogs (beginning around age 9 and up), no one knows what causes it, no treatments seem to help it and the prognosis is poor (6 mos. to 2 yrs. at most). Also, the dogs don’t seem to be bothered by it much and tend not to die with it per se, and usually the owner has to make the decision to put the dog down due to quality of life. We are taking Lucy Mae one day at a time now and have been blessed with her all these years!! She’s one great dog!

Hazel Louise – a 6.5 year old Black and Tan Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I will give a back story here: When my kids got older and didn’t need me as much I took a part time, 2 day a week, job at a local pet specialty store (which is now a Petco due to a buyout). I feel God led me to the job as it “fell into my lap”, so to speak. This is also where I became knowledgeable about pet nutrition. I had always wanted to do pet therapy work but my mixed breeds (Lucy and Desi (rip)) were not suited in temperament for it. One day I met a breeder of Cavaliers who came into the store monthly to buy their food. She said she had a 5 year old retired show champion that she would love to rehome, if she found the right one…..so….after a few more meetings with her, I finally went to her kennel and met Stella Agnes, my first Cavalier (a Blenheim). Stella was wonderful and I immediately had her certified to be a therapy dog with TDI. We did this for 5 years until Stella could no longer do it and I had a back issue. Stella passed away this past January 13, 2013 at 12 years of age, rip. While Stella was about 7 or 8 the breeder called me to say she had another Cavalier…Hazel, who was 2 years at the time, who she wanted to rehome. Hazel and her brother were purchased from a breeder in England to enhance my friend’s breeding line. When they took all the dogs to Ohio State to be seen by the specialists for testing, Hazel didn’t pass. She had a mild heart murmur, which is prevalent in Cavaliers. Even though she was going to be okay the breeder could not breed her. So, they didn’t really show her either. At age 2 they decided to give her a good home as a beloved pet, so she came to me! She did some therapy visits with me and Stella and did well on them…she’s a shyer dog, though. I was going to get her certified, but when I retired Stella I decided to just wait on it. Hazel is a great dog!!! She is so loving, and she is definitely my shadow. She is my best eater and though she tends to have dry skin in the winter, she is beautiful and shiny with a fish oil supplement. She weighs 19 lbs. and I keep her a perfect weight due to her murmur issue. She is not on any meds and the murmur hasn’t changed since she was 2, thank goodness! She is now certified as a therapy dog and does better than I’d expected due to her being a shyer dog. She has really come in to her own with it. I love Hazel Louise (Hazie as I like to call her) and I hope she continues to do well healthwise….she’s a very special dog!

Laverne Marie – Vernie (my nickname for her) is an 8.5 year old Ruby Cavalier who weighs 17 lbs. She came into our household 2.5 years ago right after my mixed breed Shih-Poo, Desi, passed away. I like to say he sent her to us, as she has some of his characteristics (only the good ones, thank goodness, as he was quite the stinker, lol). Anyway, when my Desi passed my husband told me to contact the breeder to see if she had a dog I could adopt. I wasn’t too sure yet but went ahead and made the call. She had one, Laverne, but she was actually promised to a couple where the wife had M.S. to be a companion for her. I was bummed but knew that perhaps it was for the best. However, God had other plans, and about a week later the breeder called me to say that the wife did not want Laverne and the husband didn’t want to keep her either, so they were returning her! She said she should’ve just given her to me in the first place :). I took Laverne home and she fit right in!! I now had 3 Cavaliers (Stella was still with us then) and Lucy Mae. I was in heaven! I joked the only thing I needed was a Tri and then I’d have a matched set. When Stella passed away, I started feeling like I should get back into therapy dog work. I also knew that Laverne would be great at it. She is actually from the breeder’s own kennel and has quite the personality, and is still loved by them, as is Hazel. We keep in touch still. She had 2 litters before I got her and was retired from show at age 6, the March before I adopted her in Sept. She is quite the jokester and is one of the lights of our lives! Very special dog indeed. I found a TDI testor and had Laverne certified this past Feb. 2013. In March 2013 Hazel was officially certified, as well. Now we visit a local hospital, library reading program and nursing homes. It is very fulfilling. Laverne and Hazel actually have the same birthday, Aug. 16th, and they are 2 years apart. For one of Laverne’s litters she was mated to Hazel’s brother, so they are sisters and sisters-in-law hahahahaha! I will always have a Cavalier from now on. If God deems it that I have another one while Lucy’s still alive, then that’s wonderful. If not, then I will actively seek another one (or two) when Lucy goes to the bridge. Btw, Lucy does like the Cavs…..sometimes I think she thinks they’re little divas lol. She is the alpha and lets them know it, but she loves them and takes care of them, too. 🙂

Princess Di – My Princie is going on 9 years old and is a Tortoise Shell cat who thinks she’s a dog! Princess first came into my oldest daughter’s life when she decided she needed a cat for company. She lived in Lima, Ohio at the time and was teaching H.S. math there. She didn’t have family close so she was sometimes lonely. One day I visited and we went to the local cat no-kill shelter. Princess had been there for around a year and a half! We adopted Princess (her name at the shelter, too) because she was very friendly and actually wanted to just stay on Erin’s lap the entire visiting time lol. Erin thought about changing her name but kept it when she found a food bowl at the pet store with Princess written inside of it …fate you know lol. Well, eventually Erin moved back to Bowling Green, Ohio where her fiancé was. But, she was moving in with some girlfriends and they couldn’t have pets. She asked me and her dad to keep Princess for her until she could take her back. I told her fine, but she needed to know that her dad would probably not give Princess back when that time came. He is definitely a cat lover. As you guessed it, he wouldn’t give her back! Now Erin has 2 other cats (Sheldon and Penny) and the rest is history. Princie gets along fine with the dogs and comes running when it’s dinner or treat time, just like they do! Very affectionate cat and very loved by all. 🙂

Now, I know this was long-winded and thanks if you read this far. I just wanted to tell you all the whole story. Bless you all!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[staxgrl]

Hey gang! I’ve been a reader for several months, but I’m just now ready to start making up my boys’ diets from scratch. I have 2 st. bernard/pyrenees mixes who are about 95 lbs each and a mutt who is about 45lbs. Big boys are 16 months-ish, little guy is around 9 months. Right now the big ones eat about 1600 calories a day and the little one eats around 750. I am happy with everyone’s weight, everybody has a nice tummy tuck and I can feel ribs under my fingers 🙂
Here are my planned menus, I am going to try and rotate in pork hearts and pork necks as well since those are readily available in bulk from my butcher. For now, I am out of room in my garage freezer 🙂 That said, I so appreciate/value your feedback on this. I know how much time and energy it takes to read through all the opinions/information on homemade raw diets, and your expertise is honestly priceless. I am so grateful for this forum. Here goes:

Hagrid/Ludo (95lb dogs)
1 large chicken quarter, bone-in (~1lb)
½ lb (8oz) gizzards
½ lb (8oz) heart
1oz liver
1oz kidney
2 eggs
¼ cup greek yogurt
2 cubes veggie blend
2 crushed multivitamins (one a day)
2 fish oil capsules (1200mg each)
200IU vitamin E (or 400IU every other day)

Debian (45lb dog)
1 small chicken quarter/drumstick (~1/2 lb)
¼ lb gizzards (4oz)
¼ lb heart (4oz)
½ oz liver
½ oz kidney
1 egg
1/8 cup greek yogurt
1 cube veggie blend
1 crushed multivitamin (one a day)
1 fish oil capsule (1200mg)
100IU vitamin E (or 200IU every other day)

veggie blend (steamed/blended and divided into ice cube trays):
2 bunches kale
1/2 lb carrots
1 apple
1 banana
1 sweet potato
4oz alfalfa sprouts

The menu is for a total day, it would be split up into 2 meals. I know that’s a kind of high percentage of heart, so I wanted to know if there were any opinions on that? And what about the veggie blend? This is a really simple recipe so I’m adding multivitamins to hopefully take care of any deficiencies. Thanks!

[Shasta220]

I will agree with Betsy a bit: breeding a dog is a lot of responsibility, and there are way too many pups out there who need homes already…I respect and understand breeding to improve a certain breed, or if there’s a possible accident (three of the four dogs I had came from “accidental” breedings)….

Anyways, the breeding happened, nothing anybody can do to change it…

I found some pages with info on care for a prenant dog. One says to use Alpo or Pedigree canned if she starts losing weight – if you’d need to add canned food, make sure it’s a quality brand, for sure.

http://www.2ndchance.info/pregnantdog.htm

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/breedingpregnancyguide.htm

My biggest advice is to keep doing your research on proper care. Acana sounds like a great food to be on, it’s full of lots of quality proteins and fats. Maybe even trying to add some raw meat to get her extra proteins/fats?

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Every vet I have been to with all my dogs recommends Royal Canin Feed for dogs. And I have to be straight up honest with you too…..

This whole dog food issue is driving me absolutely nuts but I study it like a beast and I read and read and read and this is what I have concluded in all that I have read, been advised to do, and from what I have seen first hand in all of….

The Raw diet, although I know that it can be really great and it does seem like the most natural thing to do for your dog. But this is also from my studies of it, know to be a fact……

First the whole reason you are reading this anyway because you like myself, want only the best for your dog and so you want to be absolutely sure your dog or pup is getting everything it needs and requires in it’s diet… And so yes….If you use absolute extreme caution in prep and storage and you get all of your ingredients from a for sure, organic farm and ranch. And if you want to be absolutely sure that your supplementation is correct that you are going to use. the only for sure way that you can do that is by having bloodwork ran on your dog and having a nutritional spectro analysis ran to know the correct amounts of each vitamin and nutrient is being met in his diet and then no one can argue that the Raw diet is a great way to go.

But… the big But word….. The downside to the Raw diet has been, that due to prep work and non organic ingredients being used and this has happen to people who are OCD about it…But it has led to some very serious bacteia infections in people’s dogs and has even caused death in dogs due to the bacteria present in raw food. This bacteria has caused dog’s intestines to actually sluff off the inner lining and pass blood so bad that if they made it through the IV treatment and antibiotics regime then they were fine or otherwise dwindled down and they died.

So the downfall to raw is obviously, the chance you take in that happing, the expense of the spectro analysis, not to mention food cost involved…

Then the super high tech foods that everyone reccomends… The stuff like Blue, Innova, Dr. whatever and all that list on here… They all have high cost, but at least because they were processed in a high temp. situation…The biggest majority of all bacteria has been removed from it. So that is not a worry…. But then you read and know people who have fed that feed and some dogs have bleeding problems associated with it because of the high protien involved in it… Or whatever causes it….. It is not a rarity either….

Then a big push by folks for this food is they say that is like the food that animals in the wild eat and so let me say this as a country boy to as well as being an avid predator hunter, I have never in my life, seen wolves nor coyotes…..Ever eating carrots, blueberries, potatoes, kelp, etc. So in reality then….What is a person to think???? Not like a wild animals diet at all….

Then you come to the more old tried and true….The per say….Puppy Chows and High Pros and the Iams and Eukanubas etc. and yet more and more people are having their precious dogs come down with all different kinds of cancers and tumors. And for me being an avid reader of medical stuff in humans and from all I have read about Monsanto and the genetically mutated corn and the serious ill effects and cancer causing issues they have had in humans because of it….Then it also makes me extremely leery of any pet product containing any corn or corn by product….But yet, even myself I had to learn from folks on here of the ill effects of non-regulated calcium uptake in puppies, especially large breeds and yet I have never raised a lab pup that I didn’t put milk replacer or powdered milk in their food when I feed them…

So needless to say…..It is a very scary world out there for all of us as pet owners…. But one thing I have learned about some vets is…. They like doctors will treat a dog, until you say this is enough and I have been there some times before myself. So one thing I have learned and also saved many a dog with even those who had been left to die of parvo is if you are truly serious about your dog as much as most of us are on here. I will share my country boy diet that has saved quite a few dogs, exhibiting the very same symptoms your dogs is showing…

Go to a local rancher/farmer who raises ducks or chickens near you and and one who lets them fend for them selves for feed and buy them. Then butcher the ducks and boil them down to pieces and I mean everything….the livers and gizzrds and hearts and then add cooked organic brown rice or even quinoa and feed your dog exclusively on that for at least several weeks or even a month after all signs of bleeding ceases to exist in his stool…. As well as, only allow him or her to drink only alkaline water. If you have to buy it….I know Fiji water is akaline but it is also fairly expensive.

Then I would also add 3 capsules of tumeric or curcumin which is the same thing, to his food daily everday and continue that from there on cutting back to one to two capsules a day after he is healed. You can get this at any health food store or pharmacy…

If your dog were showing any signs of weight loss or delapidation in any ways whatsoever…. As I did in the ones that had parvo, I would also recommend adding acidophilus to his food as well as Goat colostrum and I can tell you, your dog’s bleeding should stop within a 4 to 5 days and he will be well on his way to recovery although I would recommend keeping him on the chicken and brown rice regime for at least a month and then begin to transition over to what ever food you want him to be on from then on, always watching closely for any recurrance of bllod in the stool.

Myself I would use the Goat Colostrum and Acidophilus anyway if money permitted regardless of weight loss or not…. But anyway if you couldand if you really wanted to recharge his system as well…. I would keep him on the acidophilus, tumeric and Goat colostrum for at least several months afterwards and then I would also start adding high flora yogurt to his feed when the bleeding stops…

I am not an expert by any means, but I am just a country boy who loves animals and refuses to watch any animal die if I can stop it. I will be honest…. I have lost faith in the medical field when it comes to humans and am quickly losing for the veterinarian field as well due to drug manufacturers and feed manufacturers getting in some of their pockets….

Yiour are well blessed if you have a vet who is in it for all of the right reasons… Very few and very far between… The love of money is the root of all evil and yes it has creeped down into the Vet world as well.

[kms]

Hi all! Just wanted to post an update on Augie and really need advice again. My vet has done all he can do to get rid of the Campylobactor bacteria. First, he put Augie on Marbofloxcin – which I opposed after reading about adverse effects on large breed puppies. After 4 days with no change in stool, we switched to Clavamox. Did 1 round. The stool is the same (1st part is formed, 2nd part runny). So vet sent us to an Internal Medicine specialist. Specialist did exam and sent bloodwork to Texas A&M for a CBC panel, profile and GI Panel. All bloodwork normal – TLI and Folate were fine and no pancreatic inflammation. Specialist thinks this is likely Inflammatory Bowel Disease. She suggested doing a biopsy of the large and small intestine (either a Biopsy via surgery or Biopsy via Endoscope). I asked if we could try elimination or hypoallergenic diet to see if the IBD is due to diet and she said “since he’s not losing weight, I’d be ok with that – but wouldn’t know anything for couple months”. If we go that route, she recommends Royal Canin HP (hydrolyzed protein; hypoallergenic, soy based protein). I asked about treating IBD with RAW or at least with a more premium limited ingredient food and she had no experience/opinion there.

I worry about him being only 7 mo old and having to go through all this. Can pups really have true IBD this young? My gut is telling me to change the diet, but I could end up spending 2-3 more months on something that doesn’t pan out for him. What do you think? Has anyone ever fed Royal Canin HP for GI issues? It’s only 19% protein (soy) and rice is the first ingredient. I thought grains were bad for dogs with IBD, colitus, etc. It does, however, have ok calcium levels (2.5 mg/1,000 kcal) and it’s approved for all life stages.

Thanks for any advice or insight….

[Shasta220]

I concure A.Sandy for sure! The more you can look around and compare prices, the better chance you have at being successful with your dogs’ nutrition! I would go to feed stores, Walmart, and Fred Meyers (basically the same as Walmart, just a bit more of “premium” products for everything)…no PetCo/petsmart around here. I would just sit and read ingredient labels and price take. Then I’d make a mental note of brands that really stuck out to me (ones that had the perfect balance of price and ingredients), then I’d go home and research the brands out. I ended up w a 3 star food that we only had to spend about $20/month on (we had 3 dogs at time…they weighed between 45 and 90lb. Now the 90lb guy passed tragically, so we ended up w a 40lb rescue with newly discovered severe social/anxiety problems. Woot woot…no agility for him. UGH!)

[Shasta220]

Shasta is about 6y.o. He never used to smell bad (other than an average “doggie” scent, of course!)… But the past few months, he’s had a constant odor. Bathing helps a little (I usually use Dawn mixed with some organic rosemary-mint shampoo, then follow w a conditioner so his fur doesn’t get flaky), but even if I let the shampoo sit for 5-10min, I can smell faint amounts of the foul smell. I also doubt it’s anything to do with his food, he was on dog chow back when he didn’t stink at all…now he’s on Diamond naturals and still stinks.

Are there any supplements that help with odor? We tried Brewers yeast, Fish oil, and raw eggs. None helped any.

I also can’t afford much to be honest, I already have 3 dogs, cats, a cow, a pony, chickens, and ducks to feed…not much wiggle room in the budget.

[theBCnut]

“Why would a company be listed there that has continuous issues with recalls and salmonella contamination (such as Innova, Merrick, etc…to name a couple). I am just bringing up a valid argument.”

Since this statement is utterly false, how can this be a valid argument? Neither Innova or Merrick has had continuous issues with recalls of any kind. If you go up to the red bar at the top, you will find the library. There is an article titled “How We Rate Dog Food.” You should read it. And you should also keep in mind that there is no method by which a future recall can be predicted. Past recalls are not a reliable indicator. Many companies have had a single recall and never had another.

As far as renal failure goes, do a little more research. Excess protein does not cause renal failure.

As for the rise in allergies, I have seen allergies increasing over a much longer period of time than that. Whether it’s from poor breeding practices, environmental pollutants affecting the immune system(my personal favorite theory), or sourcing of dog food ingredients, I don’t think anyone really knows yet.

As far as dog food companies go, they are businesses. They are in it to make money. There are a few that seem to actually want to do their best for dogs, but most are definitely only in it for the money, nothing else.

Statistically speaking, 20% of all dog foods will get a 1 star rating, 20% will get a 2 star rating, etc. If 20% are going to get a 5 star rating and there are very few truly great foods, it stands to reason that some of the foods on the 5 star list(a great deal of them) will not be top notch. Of course, my standards definitely aren’t yours. In fact I would go so far as to say this is not the site for you, because our feeding philosophy is definitely not yours.

[theBCnut]

Hi Leah
I second crazy4cats suggestion about going over to the page on the review side for diabetes. You are right that that is not a good food for a diabetic dog, way too many carbs. There is also a few threads here for diabetes. You can use the search function on the forum opening page.

[theBCnut]

Well Joe
My story is that I was a vet tech. I worked for 14 years. I quit when I had my first child so I could raise my children myself. Sounds terribly sinister, doesn’t it.

You used Consumer Affairs website as proof that another food should not be fed, Joe. So why is it good enough proof when it backs up your claims, but not when it disagrees with you? Personally, I haven’t even read the site, I don’t think it constitutes proof of anything, but apparently you do. Then there are all the people that have come here over the past few months, that have complained about BB products. Finally, as I said, I worked for vets for 14 years, so as you may imagine, I have made friends of the vets I worked for, and the only food they have ever warned me away from was BB, because they had clients pets that developed vomitting and diarrhea on the food to the point that they were severely dehydrated.

And no, your not seeing a BB commercial does absolutely nothing to shoot down my statement about their advertising.

BTW, I’m sorry you can’t do anything about your gas, but most of us can, if we look for solutions.

So why did you feel a need to try to attack me, Joe? Does everybody have to like your food? If we aren’t all entitled to an opinion then I’m sorry, but you aren’t either. Grow up.

[joet]

TO *NATA**FROM JOET

1ST-just make the food is at least a 4 star food–from this site–
2-make sure it does not come from the west coast–
im sure **PATTY VAUGHN**can tell you why,she seems to be an expert on everything here-EXCEPT 1 THING PATTY–

her comments on blue buffalo–
you would think she works for a rival company or worked for them and got FIRED.
i live in new york—so you know patty–i have never seen a blue commercial–ever—so there goes your advertizing thing–

2-as far as *gas*–dogs get gas from many many things-cant be helped –as we also do–
3-but–vomit-diar—–give us the names of all the people you personally know that feed blue and have had this problem—-you cant -can you—

teddybear has been on blue for 7 years now—–yellow lab-pure bread—perfect health—-
my drummers little dog–5 years–no problem–
my sister-in-laws lab–7 years—no problem—–

so PATTY VAUGHN—
WHATS YOUR STORY—IM SURE WE ALL WOULD LIKE TO KNOW–SIGNED**JOE~T**

[Scruffy312052]

I can’t address the type of food for large breed any more than I can for miniature breeds but I can tell you what I started doing about a year and a half ago.

I have 30 dogs. Most are American Eskimos and Long haired Dachshunds however, due to a couple of segregation errors on our part we also have several Cold Franks added to our mix. While the AKC refuses to recognize this cross as a specific breed we love them just as much as our Blue Bloods.

To address your query: I was a very strong proponent of Dry food. I’ve tried many and varied brands with a minimum rating of 3 stars. Over the years several of our pets had been plagued with a myriad of health problems: Bad Breath, loose stool, fur falling out, fleas, parasites etc… etc… before I researched K-9 Dietary needs. I started with consulting the three of our most trusted vets in our area as well as several trips to the University Of Georgia College Of Veterinary Medicine.

Oddly enough, their knowledge on the subject was nothing more than suggesting a variety of name brand foods and supplements. It was, quite frankly, a costly “hit or miss” solution with little or no improvement to the health of our pack.

I educated myself by reading hundreds of articles and forums such as this (Rudy’s). As a result, I concocted and changed their diet to a home remedy.

In less than four months there was a marked improvement. Coccidian protozoa; gone. Their breath was no longer foul smelling. No more signs of any type of worms wiggling in their stool. Their fur started growing back soft and fluffy and much to our relief, there are few if any fleas. As a bonus I cut our rather large K-9 pantry expense by 33%. I did, however, add an extra 30 minutes to my time while preparing their meal (mind you, I am feeding thirty).

NOTE: Should you consider my solution it is strongly advised that you consult your Vet First. Two of the ingredients I use may be challenged by some (but not all) authorities. *These two are: “Plug Chewing Tobacco and Garlic.”

Here is my Remedy: In a crock pot I cook 3 pounds of chicken backs and necks and one pound of chicken liver for a minimum of 8 hours on Auto. This causes the bones to break down to become malleable and easily digested. Thirty minutes before serving add 2.5 pounds of frozen or fresh mixed vegetables (make sure there is no or little corn) i.e. peas, lima beans, carrots, green beans and stir.

In a blender add two heaping tablespoons of minced garlic, 1/2 ounce of plug tobacco and one cup of broth from the crockpot. Blend on high for thirty to sixty seconds or until the tobacco is cut up into pieces that look almost granular. Add this to the crock pot and stir several times. Turn the crock pot off and let stand for thirty minutes.

Whatever type of dry food you are using reduce the serving amount by 60% and mix this on a 2 To 1 ratio of crock pot mix to dry food. Considering you have five dogs, freeze the rest of the crock pot mixture in pouches that serve five. Taking into account the size of my kennels, I obviously have no leftovers.

I have been feeding this mixture to my kennels for almost 1 ½ years and my pack has never looked or responded healthier.

* It is argued that tobacco will kill Coccidian protozoa and the Garlic will repel the fleas. I use these two ingredients only twice a month so you will need to reduce the amount to a proper ratio so as not to give your pets too much.

The benefits: less trips to the vet, more active adults, fresher breath, no more de-wormer medicine to buy (which, by the way, is not a healthy substance for your pet) less, if any flea remedies and coats full of luster. If you like, you can also drop to a one star dry food considering it is primarily used as filler.

[Akari_32]

I’m about to be giving Nutrisource Super Performance a try here soon. It’s about $45 for 33 pounds, and has my 130 pound dog eating just 3.5 cups (and he’ll probably eat less than that because he’s lazy), according to the calculator in the review section of the site. Or if you have a Tractor Supply, they have 4Health which is pretty cheap, and ranks well. The last one I can really think of is Walmart has Pure Balance and Purina One Beyond, both or which are 3 stars.

Hey, that’s my thread :p

[Shasta220]

I really don’t want to have to spend tons of money on chews and stuff (unless it’s gonna really last…), but basically here’s what I want: a home made filling that will either dry or freeze COMPLETELY solid (without getting crumbly or melty…).

Loki is big on chewing. He doesn’t like plastic/rubber chews much. If I give him a kong, he takes out a tiny bit of the food and then drops the sticky toy in my lap (Kongs are his favorite fetch toy…). So far hooves are the only chews that I can fill without having him tear it up or bring it to me. (Luckily he’s not a fan of chewing on the hoof itself, he only licks out whatever filling I put in it)

I tried getting long-lasting edible chews, but the “even longer lasting” formula lasted Loki about 5 minutes, and got crumbs ALL OVER the carpet. Bones are okay, but he’s really not a big fan.

So again, about the only thing that strikes his interest are the stuffed hooves (or I’m sure he’d like to lick filling out of a hollow bone)… But are there any fillings that might last a bit longer without making a mess?

(If you can’t already tell, this is for his special indoor chews, LOL! When he’s in his outdoor kennel run, he’s content with sticks, elk bones, and our other dog’s tail!)

[slappppy]

THANK YOU for all the comments – soooo helpful!!

I adopted a 2 year old 40 pound cattledog last month and her gulping started two days after – with a violent episode late one night. Went to a vet the next day and he said symptoms may be kennel cough (she was a shelter dog so no doubt has that too). And no, she didn’t gulp for the vet so he probably thought new dog owner was crazy.

Here’s what I’m doing and gauging it day by day:
– slower meals – not giving it to her all at once and using the funky food bowl with the ridges (yes, time factor with work, ugh).
-no dry kibble cause she seem to choke the pieces down (doesn’t chew – and yes, not great for the teeth and tartar but gulping is CRAZY to experience).
-probiotic powder and sometimes canned pumpkin mixed in with food (settles the stomach).
-started exercise right way (I think she was in shelters a long time. I’m a trail runner so got her on a routine fast. On days we workout, she seems much better than days we just do short walks. But yes, realize not everyone can do this in winter).
-got the Chinese tea pills after reading this post! Ha, not sure if these are the same pills used in this post but they are used to balance the stomach, basically making things right internally (and that’s what we want after 7 p.m., omg). This Dr has an alternative medicine/acupuncture place down the street and I called him at 10 p.m. during the 2nd episode. He came over on his bicycle in 10 mins with the pills! Again, have no idea here and giving it in limited doses as I’m not quite sure about it all.
— giving her love and reassurance all the time in case it is an emotional security thing.
–watching her with an eagle eye when we are outside – if I glance away for a nano second, I am pulling things out of her mouth/throat!

She still gulps a few days a week but it is more of a repeated swallowing thing (still odd though and not relaxing to watch). But not violent like it was.

Thanks again for the great tips!

[Lablubber]

I am a newby to all of this high tech dog food stuff but now that I am older and much wiser I read all I can about the well being of my pups…. I was the old way, dump milk or condensed milk into my puppy food to help them grow strong bones and prevent dysplasia then when they get older feed high pro to keep them muscled. but as I got older and wiser and had more time to read and started hearing more and more about canine cancer and the grain based feeds being considered as a culprit. I really started reading alot and looking for the best food available. I just bought a new puppy a yellow lab and only want the best for him but then just today I saw in an article on here that actually hinted or said that you can actually give a puppy too much calcium and I sure do not want to hurt this lab puppy in any way. but I thought I was doing what was best for him because of their size and higher than normal occurrance of dysplasia and so as always I have for the first year at least, added a scoop of milk replacer to my dog’s food bowl and along with it, I mixed it with warm water to make their food more appititizing and suppopsedly also helped build bones. So after reading these articles…. And also pleading stupidity with all of you for only wanting what is best for my dogs…. Is what I have been doing a bad thing for my dogs? Especially if it does not cause loose or runny stools? Because after reading articles on here, it seems like in these articles that they are saying that it actually causes more hip dysplasia and elbow displaslia? Is this correct? Because my vet has never caautioned against it and so believing the vet above my Holiday Inn Express Education in Veternarian Science, I sure would appreciate a good answer and explaination as to why, the extra calcium he gets by the milk replacer he gets in his food causes and even worst chance of dysplasia because I sure don’t want to hurt my puppy for anything? So if anyone can cite me or send me any articles on this or can tell me where to look. I would like to know. Also if anyone can tell me why I should not use Blue Wildness Lg. Breed Puppy Food for him or Blue Lg. Breed Puppy Chicken and Brown Rice Formula? Sorry to sound so stupid but as I said I was Puppy Chow, Hi Pro man all my life and thought I was doing good.

[beagleowner]

I feel I have come to the acceptance that Henry is gone and as the doctor told me there was nothing I did or could have done that would have preventend this. His heart failed and he was dying. However I was not present when they euthanized him. I was so distressed and shocked that he was dying I couldn’t bear to be there . When I talked to one of my family members and they heard that I was not present for the procedure she said that pets want you there to comfort them so they know you loved them. Reading some articles on the web, many are saying the same. Now my guilt has set in and I am dwelling on this. I let him down at the last moments. While he laid on the table for an exam, I petted him, kissed him and scratched his head and told him I loved him. My husband also did the same and in fact Henry put his chin on my husbands hand. Neither of us stayed for the procedure, but I did see him after it was over and he looked so peaceful. But I can’t get the guilt out of my mind. You have all been such a comfort to me. Thank you.

[Sue’s Zoo]

First, thank you so much HDM for taking time to respond and Patty for helping out. I guess I did realize the c:p ratio was still important but was hoping it might be somewhat automatic when feeding raw. And from your response it seems like that is the case IF I get the balance correct between organ, muscle/tissue, and bone. And there are several ways to accomplish that–grinds, RMBs, Tripe mixes, etc. I guess at this point I just want the simplest way to get started, which ideally would be someone saying: feed this, then this, etc. 🙂 while I read and re-read all your info and additional recommended resources to educate myself and become more confident in creating my own meals. I did see some of your info under raw feeding giving your dogs various diets over a period of time. I’m going to look at those more closely because I think it’s what I need to kickstart the program. I just wasn’t sure if those contained all the necessary nutrition for large breed PUPPIES (as well as adult dogs). So thanks again for your response.

I think I may start with MPC as I look for less expensive routes for the future. Considering what I pay for just doing half Primal (chicken, beef, rabbit and venison) plus top end kibble/canned (rotating Wellness CORE Puppy/Earthborn Coastal Catch/Halo Surf n Turf, plus a daily can of FROMM Gold rotating proteins), with these pups, I can’t imagine it’s going to be much more…I hope. And I’m going to get a freezer (checking CL today)

And lastly, for now, you mentioned books. I have the Ancestral Diet book. I’ve noticed Dr. Becker’s is recommended in several places so I plan to get it. Are you familiar with Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth MacDonald? Any others you could recommend to help me jump in quickly?

So happy to have found this site. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions over the next few months. Learning so much from you and some others. And I’m a skeptic so I don’t trust everything I read on the internet. But just by reading your posts it’s obvious you’ve done the research and know what you’re talking about.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Connicorso! Hound Dog Mom already did all the hard work contacting companies for the actual amount of calcium in their foods. Protein is not the issue, rather the calcium is. Here is the list that HDM made for large breed growth appropriate foods: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit
Regarding Puppy or Adult food, AAFCO only acknowledges to types of food: 1- growth and reproduction and 2- adult maintenance. See here: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/
I would make sure the food you feed meets the requirements for growth or is for “all life stages.”

Pinnacle has 3 varieties (though none grain-free) that made the cut to be on her list. It is a 4 star rated food. I used to feed my Dane the duck & potato variety and he really liked it and did well on it. Wellness Core Puppy is on HDM’s list too. It is a 5 star food. I haven’t personally used it but a lot of people seem to like it.

Remember that you don’t have to pick one food and feed it forever. The best thing you can do is rotate the food you feed your pup. Choose a few different brands and a few different protein sources. Just like with people, variety in the diet is important. You can even rotate grain-inclusive foods with grain-free foods. Also, just because someone suggests a food or it has good reviews doesn’t necessarily mean it will work for your pup. Every dog is different. If a food doesn’t seem to be working, scratch it off your list and move on to the next one.

My top 3 picks for grain-free foods would be: Earthborn Holistic (Meadow Feast and Coastal Catch), Annamaet (Salcha and Aqualuck), and Wellness Core Puppy. My top 3 picks for grain-inclusive would be: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, Annamaet Ultra, and Nature’s Variety Prairie (Puppy or Large Breed Puppy).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[theBCnut]

dogspotindia, don’t believe all the advertising you read. There is absolutely no reason anyone should need to feed supposed breed specific foods. Dogs intestines are not breed specific. And Royal Canin is lousy food.

[Shawna]

Hi Dorenda,

Took a few tries but I was able to log on.. Thanks Patty for the email heads up :)..

Vets often suggest low protein for renal disease when it really isn’t necessary. There are studies even that show dogs that have protein lowered to drastically too early in the disease have increased mortality. There’s some fantastic information on the topic on nutritionist Mary Straus’ website (see quote below). My dog has had kidney disease since birth and has been on high protein raw her whole life (45 to 54%) — she’ll be eight years old the end of June 2014.

“Based on research done in the last ten years (see s a Low Protein Diet Necessary or Desirable?), that the only time it is necessary to feed a low protein diet is when your dog is uremic, which generally means BUN is over 80 mg/dL (equivalent to 28.6 mmol/L), creatinine is over 4.0 mg/dL (equivalent to 354 µmol/L), and the dog is showing symptoms such as vomiting, nausea,inappetence, ulcers and lethargy, which are caused by the build-up of nitrogen in the blood. Even then, feeding low protein will not extend life, but it will help the dog feel better. Subcutaneous fluids can also help at this time (and before).” http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html

If your pup is uremic then consider K/D canned with added toppers to entice eating. Toppers like lightly cooked egg whites or canned green tripe are good options. Both are low in phosphorus but higher in protein. To counter the extra protein you can give probiotics and a certain type of prebiotic to induce “nitrogen trapping”. Nitrogen trapping utilizes the bacteria in the colon to help clean BUN from the blood. I use Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic (human product) and Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human product). If symptoms are bad enough that there is a need to keep protein really low try adding high quality fats — organic butter or ghee, coconut oil etc.

I would avoid kibble at ALL COST!!! Kibble of any kind including K/D.

Vet Dr. Royal created a raw kidney disease diet for Darwins. It can be found on their website – link below. The food is REALLY high in protein so again not an option if your pup is uremic. Here’s some info. The actual diet is on the site as well. Your vet will have to contact them to confirm your pup is a good candidate for the diet. http://www.darwinspet.com/kidney-health/

Mary Straus, link above, has diet recommendations on her site – she does include kibbles but kibbles are dehydrating and can cause issues. The protein in kibbles is also poorer quality than any other form and due to this creates more BUN then other diets with the same amount and kind of protein. Nutritionist Lew Olson also has some recipes on her website http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/kidney-diet/

Supplements that might be helpful — the one that I will NEVER run out of with my KD girl is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. Turmeric, food grade activated charcoal and burdock root are some to look at. I’d also recommend giving a digestive enzyme no matter what you feed. Mineral waters higher in calcium while being lower in sodium have demonstrated some benefit. They didn’t identify the brand in the research paper but I believe they may have used Evian. I’ve also read that feeding smaller meals multiple times per day is beneficial.

Hope something here is helpful!! Sure hope you can get your pup feeling better!!!

Shawna

[Dorenda]

Jude, I am new to this forum and just posted under “renal failure” before I saw this post of yours. Here is my situation: my dog was snake-bit about a year ago and we have been fighting renal failure ever since (high BUN and Creatine levels). The vet has him on Hills Science Diet KD canned and dry food but he will hardly eat it. I end up maxing it with Bisquick to make doggie treats (1:1 ratio) but I know he’s barely eating enough to get by. Do you have any suggestions–I read in your post something about some food you make from Kidney Yahoo? Thanks for ANY help!

[AT]

New here…We are bringing an 8 week old Labrador puppy home next Saturday and I am trying to narrow in on food options. I have spent the last few days reading every single post in this thread and it has been quite an education – thank you to all of you who spend time here to help educate others!
My questions:
1. Our puppy will be coming home on Purina Pro Plan Focus Puppy Large Breed Formula and I want to transition him to something better as soon as possible. Would a few days after he is home and settled in be too soon to start a transition, provided he is not showing any signs of GI distress?
2. If price/cost is not a constraint, what off the shelf product would you feed a lab puppy? I am not up to a homemade diet at this point (might consider this in the future, but don’t trust myself to get up to speed in one week and to get it right during this crucial growth period). Most of the discussions I’ve read here involve rotating quality dry foods (with added toppers/supplements). Would this be the best way to start since our puppy will be coming home on a dry food?
It has also been stated that raw, canned or reconstituted is even better. I can see the raw recommendations in the document linked to several times throughout this thread. What do you consider to be the best of these brands? Would transitioning directly to raw be ok for our puppy; or should we go first to canned, then to raw?
Can anyone offer recommendations for the “best of the best” of canned foods for a large breed puppy? I figure I can call companies to calculate exact calcium/kcal, but could anyone offer the best brands/formulas to start my efforts? The fives stars listed in the library are:
By Nature 95% Meat (Canned)
Castor and Pollux Natural Ultramix (Canned)
Dogswell Dog Food (Canned)
EVO Dog Food (Canned)
Fromm Gold Nutritionals (Canned)
Go! Fit and Free (Canned)
Great Life Essentials (Canned)
Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (Canned)
Life’s Abundance (Canned)
Merrick Dog Food (Canned)
Merrick Grain Free Dog Food (Canned)
Nature’s Variety Instinct (Canned)
Pet-Tao Dog Food (Canned)
Pure Balance Dog Food (Canned)
Tiki Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Core Dog Food (Canned)
Wellness Stews (Canned)
Weruva Kobe (Canned)
Weruva Kurobuta (Canned)
ZiwiPeak Daily Dog Cuisine (Canned)

Thank you so much for any advice!
AT

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by AT.

[yellowlabbaby]

Hi,
Ive grown up w pets but this will be my first time being responsible for this type of living being myself. Ive been doing a ton of research since i paid my deposit and have realized theres much more than i knew to it and i dont think google can educate me with all i need to know. So im hoping some of you fellow dog owners can help! I pick my male yellow lab puppy up on Feb 2 and he will be only 6wks old (born dec 22). My research has shown this to be definitely at least 2wks too early but the breeder insists this is fine and will not keep him another 2-3wks with his mother. So I’m hoping I can give him the proper development tools during those few weeks and any advice would be appreciated! I have purchased a metal kennel with dividers for his growth (blue in color because I read they see that color somewhat better?) and have researched crate training (again any additional advice would be great). I also purchased an extra large dog bed so he will grow into it without having to change/replace his known comfort area, and a metal 8 panel exercise pen for the living room because my research said not to allow him full access of the house during training and this allows him to not be secluded in his more appropriate spaced living area (do I really have to keep him from the whole house for at least 6months?) I’ve printed the food list from hound mom but does anyone have any suggestions and reasons to the best choice? I have a food store fairly close by that carries most of the listed options. I think ive gotten pretty good training guidance online but as ive said advice is welcome. Ill be looking for a vet i like but would like some feedback as to fle medication, heartguard, whats the best shampoo etc for this type of dog and age, supplies such as right brush, teeth care, toys, etc. Also i read he can not be outside or around other dogs until like 12 weeks but that socialization with other dogs is crucial during the time before that as well as walks and outside play, so any suggestion/feedback on that? I have three kids 8, 6, and 5 who are a bit wild and im concerned will interfere with the correct training/ pack order our puppy will need, amy help with that? I am taking this very seriously, i want to raise this dog properly for his mental, emotional, developmental, and physical health. Ive learned that i wont be able to love him like a member of our human family as planned but instead love him as a member of his dog family in us. So any and all help, advice, information, and suggestion is requested and much appreciated!!! Thank you all so much!!

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi ScottsMomma! Thanks for rescuing a dog, he will be thanking you to! Seeing as you mentioned raw I would say that would be a great way to go! Raw should really help with any allergies and you can really customize the meal plan, anything that doesnt seem to sit well with him, you can simply move on to another protein. My shih tzu loves raw, its amazing how he took to it, and I am sure your terrier will love it too. While you are researching how to balance, Hound Dog Mom is the best for explaining that!, you can start with a pre-made raw or do a pre-mix in which you add your own meat to it. There is a great section for pre-made raw dog food here to help you choose the best, but I think a lot of people use Primal and Stella & Chewys I would to if I could get it! I have used Nature`s Variety and think its ok, Dawson loves it and he does well on it, but I like making my own then you know exactly what you put into it. But when I get busy I still use it.
For pre-mixes I know of a few, Urban Wolf, Honest Kitchen The Preference, Grandma Lucys makes one, Sojos I believe makes one, and one I think its called Steves Real Food, or something like that. I havent used them as Dawson doesnt really do so well on high potatoes, and urban wolf is the only one I can find here.
Check out the raw dog food forum, lots and lots of great help and questions that have already been answered. Here is a link /forums/forum/raw-dog-food-forum/
Oh and for the skin and dandruff, You can use coconut oil and a fish oil, I like to use krill oil, Here is an article from the whole dog journal on dosage:
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Fish-Oil-Supplements-For-Dogs_20600-1.html
But now I five Dawson sardines instead of the krill oil, its cheaper and a whole food source he loves sardines!
And then coconut oil is half a teaspoon per ten pounds. I give Dawson his sardine requirements once weekly, so thursday, and then coconut oil every day, but you can do it however works best. I believe some people do every other day.
I hope this helps some! It is overwhelming when you first start, but its so much better for your dog than any kibble or canned food. I know more people with more knowledge than me will chime in!

[anotheremily]

Well…I have been at the same thing as Molzy for the past almost 2 yrs…

I have a jack russell beagle mix. He is 5.5 yrs old. He was over weight , not anymore considering the circumstances….He went from 17 lbs when we got him to 27.5 lbs at highest and last yr this time was at 17, today he is at 21. Gulping has been going on so long I can’t remember when it started. He has had blood tests, xrays, barium xray, several meds for worming, He had an upper endoscopy…all leads us to nothing. So he was put on prilosec last Spetember (’13) and metoclopromide 3 xs a day. Ok…so he was being examined for all of these…worms, mega esophagus, pyloric stenosis, reverse sneezing, bloat, acid reflux, collapsed trachea…post nasal drip, and all the stuff everyone else has said here…He has none of that. He used to eat kibble, Canadae. Our other dogs eat that. We switched everyone last spring, summer to Taste of the Wild. Mind you all along I am continuing treating for all the other ailments…so his kibble would get crushed by me and wetted into a paste and a kong goes in his bowl to slow him down. He was on Purina EN for some time and that was when he lost weight. I made rice and fish and carrots and sweet potatoes and rice and veggies and dog food from our local butcher shop that is all hormone antibiotic free…then since he was doing so good we eased into taste of the wild…well that gets expensive with 4 dogs and feeding everyone seperate isn’t an option. So we went back to Canadae maybe a month or two ago…we are on our 3rd bag of it I think…And January 8th and January 10th my husband and I got NO sleep what so ever. Last night he gulped and filled with gas so bad I thought I was going to have to rush him to the pet er…No, he threw up, just like he did on the 8th right around 5 am. Last night it was barf at 4 then back to bed to sleep and he was all gurgly and snoring and I just wanted 1 hour of sleep…I moved him. Shouldn’t have done that, it sparked another episode. This is all so in such a small nutshell what I am writing, but today I took him to another local regualr vet office for just a 3rd pair of eyes to see what she thought. She thinks it’s digestive, perhaps a food allergy, something similar to celiac…Told me whe would show my video to the other vets in the practice and get back to me. Suggested I take him to Cornell, the Veterinary School. He could see more specialists there than at the local office with 1 specialist since she felt what was wrong with my dog is so rare. Rare until you research it and find all these people having the same problem…WHY is it only at night? He has little spats in the day sometimes but most of the action is at night. Why do none of have any REAL answers? What is in the kibble that we feed our dogs? I did some research a while back and I could go find the link and post them if you are interested but you have probably already seen them, about kibble and how people had this issue during the major dogfood recalls….a few years back…That spawned a TON of gulping and posts everywhere. I do not think this is partial seizures…The more i read and the more I talk to vets, I think it’s the food. I cannot feed him a raw diet, I can feed him partially cooked and plain food like I have in the past, I think the limited ingredient food is good for a short time. In the mean time I am going to have to come up with a fund raising campaign to take him to Cornell, because I have spent over $2000 as of the end of 2013 on this issue. I LOVE him dearly but I cannot spend anymore or charge anymore. I am getting nowhere, and I am so tired, literally. I don’t know what else to do…He is getting a new probiotic tonight and for food we are doing quinoa and salmon for a while. He will get NO chicken for a long time. Back to the butcher shop food after the salmon. So…I also got him some tramidole so he can sleep tonight and so can we…I will hang around here, it seems like a good place to bump ideas off of each other…I am interested in hearing more about the chinese medicine and will go back and read that posting more in depth tonight. It’s good to know we are not alone I guess. I am wondering is anyone has had ultrasounds or had their dog eat under fluoroscopy…those were suggested to me today along with a nutritionist and all these are available at the Vet College, for more than I can pay I am sure…lol

Looking forward to staying in touch!
PS my dog’s name is Doug…(love that boy)

[Cocker_mom]

Hi, InkedMarie! Since about April I’ve been feeding both my dogs the Iams Healthy Naturals Adult Lamb Meal and Rice dog food. They’ve both responded well to it, and it was included on the list of (literally, hundreds–at least one thousand) dog foods the allergy testing company gave me. Basically, it’s an average kibble, but it’s easily accessible in my area. Prior to that, I had my allergy prone cocker on Nature’s Recipe Grain-Free Easy to Digest Chicken, Sweet Potato, and Pumpkin dog food and my older cocker on Blue Buffalo Senior Turkey (both are considered limited ingredient foods). (I’d highly recommend both those foods; it was just a 20+ mile drive one-way every time I needed dog food.)

To put things in context, I got my allergy prone cocker in September, 2012. I was visiting the vet pretty much every two weeks and he was constantly on keto, benadryl, special shampoo for the elephant hide, and various ear medications. The shampoo improved the elephant hide somewhat, but he was still having problems with ears and itching/licking in general. Once I got him on the Nature’s Recipe, he slowly started improving (I was beginning to think we had a definite winner!), but then spring hit and his skin, eyes, ears just drove him crazy with itching, so he really didn’t enjoy a substantial change in his condition. I did the food allergy test first just because I wanted to eliminate as many of the most likely causes as possible before considering something like an allergy panel/allergy shots. After getting the results, I rid the house of any foods, treats, etc. he was allergic to and made the decision to put both dogs on the same food with my vet’s approval. There was a little adjusting of portions for my older cocker, and she definitely liked the Blue Buffalo much better (it has oats, and I didn’t want to risk my allergy prone dog getting a morsel of it), but she’s doing really well on it.

The warm months were a nightmare for the little guy. The exposed skin and the yeast and the elephant hide cleared up completely with the food adjustment but the ears were the worst I’d seen yet–literally Velveeta cheese at the worst, and medicines weren’t providing much relief. More bi-weekly vet visits, and I even participated in some trial drugs when everything else failed. Thank goodness for the first hard frost. It’s winter now, and his ears have cleared up, so I am pretty confident now the food issues have been ruled out. We’ve both gotten a much needed break from the ear agony. He looks far and away better than ever and the constant itching/licking isn’t going on now that it’s winter. That’s what convinced me to do the outdoor panel before his 2nd spring with me. The tests aren’t terribly invasive or expensive–they use only a small blood sample. I couldn’t imagine having a chronic yeast infection! I’m hoping the allergy shots will prep him for the spring allergens.

I could probably start a whole new thread about cockers and their ears, but I can tell you that having owned two cockers now, my experience with the younger dog has been COMPLETELY different than the older one. Basically, I’ve always exercised preventative care with my older cocker just because cockers are naturally prone to infections with their big floppy ears–cleaning and drying the ears once a week or so, keeping the insides or the ear shaved close, and letting them air out. She’s had maybe 3 or 4 ear infections in her 13 years, and her ears are very clean and healthy. My younger cocker’s ears are a mess–gnarly and misshapen on the inside with a lot of scar tissue particularly on the left ear and there is an ugly polyp on the left ear too. He is truly a special needs dog, and I’m thinking the product of overbreeding (resulting in a very cute but very issue-prone pup).

I know a lot of dogs do well on a food elimination diet, and I believe I truly gave that method a fair shake (the food he was on when he took the food allergy test was actually on the testing company’s approved list–although none of the prior foods I tried were), but my dog’s issues are caused by a variety of allergens that aren’t limited to just food. I spent literally thousands of dollars in vet bills for various treatments that treated only symptoms but not the true problem, and I have no regrets with the allergy tests. I truly believe we’ve reached a turning point. They might not be necessary for every dog, but if your dog is experiencing chronic allergies and a food adjustment isn’t completely alleviating the symptoms, the test is worth it.

[LindaW]

Hi, all. I’ve just recently learned through initially “Dogs Naturally” magazine and then numerous other sources about the dangers and shortcomings of synthetic vitamins and minerals in almost all commercially prepared dog food whether dry or canned. The stuff is derived from toxic materials and since it is so much less expensive than whole food sources, they use them.
There is only one commercial food, Nature’s Logic, that I know of. I had wanted to try Brothers Complete, but they have synthetic also (sodium selenite, etc.). Sometimes my very discerning golden ret. pup doesn’t want her raw or home cooked fare and she will eat a little kibble or canned. Very difficult puppy to feed. So, let’s help spread the word about the synthetics. It is just as important as not feeding Beneful or Ol Roy. Even human vitamins has it unless it is “whole food” supplements. The articles state that quite a few problems that dogs have can be linked back to these artifical supps.

[theBCnut]

I’m boosting your post up to the top where maybe someone who has experience with IBD will see it..

My almost 2 year old dog was diagnoses with IBS at 9 weeks old, the youngest case my vet had ever seen. He assured me that I had a dog that would soon have full blown IBD. We continued to have issues until I happened to read something on one of the reviews that made me realize his problems were based in food intolerances. I put him on Brother’s Complete Turkey formula when he was 4 months old and he never showed another symptom of IBS. I have figured out some or all of his food intolerances, so now I know a couple foods that he can eat, but he can’t have chicken, many grains, or tomato. Other than that he is now a completely happy, healthy, normal dog.

[mellowmutt]

Well, the food’s already mixed… I’ve read this advice a lot, but the only links I’ve come across are to those marketing rotational feeding. Maybe one in ten dogs I’ve ever known had food allergies (mostly to “bad” grains); most of the rest lived long, happy lives on the same food day in and day out, mostly dry kibble of dubious quality by today’s standards. I have two very good, related reasons for mixing rather than rotating.

First, the different kibble sizes, and one kibble being “preferred” really slows down Amiga’s feeding rate. I don’t want her “inhaling” her food, which she does when all the kibbles are the same size/smell. Mixed, she’ll try picking out the Orijen kibbles! Of course she winds up eating most of the other kibbles along with, at which point I guess she figures she may as well finish the meal. But it does take her twice as long to eat, this way, and gives me control of what she’s eating with no fuss because…

Second, she’s one of those picky mals who drive their owners to despair with hunger strikes, this being a well-known feature-bug of many individuals of most arctic breeds — which evolved to be headstrong, independent, and require less food than other dogs of similar size. If I rotate the food, which I did try, she’ll just ignore the food dish until what she wants gets put in it — which turns into a battle of wills the human usually loses (I know I’m a sucker for those sad puppy-dog eyes with whimpering), best not let it start if I want her growth rate to be steady not spurty, though.

http://wildpaw.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=8333
http://wildpaw.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=4462
(list goes on)

I also think Amiga’s spoiled enough without letting her choose her own menu, but it’s a real challenge to get her to eat what I want her to eat, regardless of when she eats it. For instance, when she was protesting NVI Rabbit she got away from me, into a neighbor’s house, and chowed down a whole bowl of Kibbles ‘n’ Bits. Came when called, after a short delay, licking her chops and grinning while the neighbor shooed her out of her house… pinned her ears back and rolled over on her back at my feet in a typical-malamute show of faux-submissiveness (neither hind leg straight), then ignored her own food for two more days. Which turned into four when she figured out how to raid the cat food for a few seconds before I caught her at it, then ate the rest of my sandwich off the countertop while I relocated the cat dish. 🙂

This can also be an issue when using toppers, but I’ve figured out how to train around this. I’m redirecting Amiga’s prey drive into SAR training (informally, can’t train with other dog/handler teams until she’s more mature about working when other dogs are present, there’s a reason so many SAR dogs are Goldens). Aside from disliking all forms of transport (no rhyme or reason for it I can figure, which I also hope she matures out of), all the aptitude for SAR work is there, her kibble OCD really shines through in “re-find” work. Her name is well-chosen, especially where kids are concerned; if the scent she’s on is animal she pricks her ears forward, but pins ’em back submissively for any and all humans… excellent potential despite being a malamute, even on tracking work.

She knows the difference between “food” and “umm-umms” and has figured out what I mean when I say “umm-umms on your dinner-food” — a big reward delayed until dinnertime instead of little treats over the course of a long, physically-demanding training session (which she sees as playing hide-and-seek in the forest for a few hours, at this stage). She’s very treat-motivated. Oh, she’ll still skip a meal here and there, but that just lets me know she isn’t getting enough exercise — that and the zoomie circles around the yard. Both of which I’m currently chalking up to being in season, total psycho malamute puppy on my hands atm.

Some Amiga videos here, the one running next to the bike was taken a month ago while the ones playing with the neighbor Husky are from last week, and aren’t mally pups just adorable before they become terrors?

http://www.veoh.com/list/u/bikefat

What worries me is topping kibble with raw/freeze-dried due to the different rates of digestion. If I just feed the toppers as a meal, I’m worried she’ll lose the correlation with it as a treat, and hold out for it as a regular meal by again spurning her kibble — perhaps even the Orijen. With the mix, when she’s hungry she’s really quite excited about being fed, with none of the malamute games we played when I tried rotating five foods and she’d only eat one of ’em.

YMalMV. 😉

[mellowmutt]

I got Amiga at 8 weeks old, back on June 1st. Her breeder recommended Nutro LBP Lamb & Rice, so that’s what I fed her at first. I wasn’t happy with her gas or her stools, so I did some research and decided to mix Orijen LBP and NV Prairie LBP with the Nutro. Did some more research and discovered that I was feeding her way too much calcium. So I added two other foods to the mix in mid-July, NV Instinct Rabbit and CC Open Sky, had to set up a spreadsheet to keep CA, CA:K, calories & protein in order. I did the calculations based on the max-CA values, not averages or the tested values of a specific batch, to be on the safe side.

Ran out of this mix a month ago, at 8 months apparently she can regulate her CA herself, so I quit worrying about it. Now I have her on a mix of Orijen Regional Red, NV Instinct Rabbit, and NV Prairie Venison & Barley. It seems reasonable to me to feed her a red-meat diet in winter, and switch to a fish-and-fowl diet come summer (ancestral-wolf feeding pattern). In a few months the mix will be Orijen Six Fish, NV Instinct Rabbit LID, and NV Prairie Duck & Oatmeal. Both supplemented with the occasional topper of Orijen Tundra freeze-dried. LID Rabbit doesn’t have turkey, which is in the Duck & Oatmeal formula, so Turkey’s on the menu all year, too. Protein content of these blends is 33%.

The Prairie kibble’s mixed in to lower my cost from $3/lb to $2.75/lb, which adds up with a large breed. Rabbit is in the mix year-round, because I read some research (I’ll post the links if I find them again) about how wild/feral canines/felines primarily eat bunnies. The missing “meat group” in the prepared foods is rodent, so I’ll also occasionally feed raw beaver meat as a topper. I’d like to add a third brand into the mix instead of the Prairie, unfortunately I haven’t found anything that doesn’t have either the “wrong” grains or is loaded with potato (a no-no for malamutes as white potato is known to trigger bloat in this breed), or is too expensive to serve the purpose.

I set up another spreadsheet for amino acids and did yet more research; I believe she’s getting the full spectrum in sufficient quantities from all the different protein sources (also gets Orijen Tundra freeze-dried treats, used these to teach her to swim ‘cuz they float without getting soggy) such that she doesn’t need the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements typically found in large-breed-specific formulas — her body ought to be able to produce as much of these as she needs provided the proper building blocks (amino acids & cartilage). Her stools, on the “winter blend” anyway, are firm and dry, and not too voluminous or frequent and she seems to be thriving; my Vet is pleased with her physical condition and says her growth rate is right on target.

Many thanks to this site and all who contribute for helping me navigate the dog-food waters, it’s enough to make one’s head explode, but it’s also nice to have so many quality options in dry kibble. It’s been several years since I’ve had a dog (Amiga’s my 4th), Iams and even Purina just aren’t what they once were so I didn’t even consider those despite two of my dogs living to 15 (Keeshond on Eukanuba and Golden Retriever on Hi-Pro). My last malamute got Iams Lamb & Rice, but was shot (with cause) by a sheep rancher at 3 1/2 back in ’94 so I have no long-term report, there.

What got me to not trust dogfood manufacturers and do this research, leading me here, was how horrific the first month was feeding Amiga just the Nutro. Glossy, semi-soft, mucousy stools (if not diarrhea) and lotsa smelly farts — just like my friends’ dogs being fed Nutro. Enzymes, pre- and pro- biotics didn’t help, de-worming only cleared up the worms. No surprise given the ridiculously-high Zinc content in Nutro formulas, apparently since Mars bought them out — these are symptoms of Zinc toxicity, not poor digestive-tract health; no band-aid for that. Wish I’d figured that out sooner, and the calcium-level thing.

If I had the puppy-food phase to do over again, I wouldn’t touch Nutro with a 10-foot pole. These problems lessened when blended with the other kibbles, and disappeared entirely (OK, occasional fart still, probably the grains) this month after discontinuing the Nutro. I would do the four-kibble mix again, going with just the Rabbit and Duck would be lower calcium, but would also lack the glucosamine/chondroitin/taurine supplements the two LBP kibbles contain, as well as the cartilage and broad spectrum of amino acids which make these supplements unnecessary.

I did rush her to the vet after-hours back in September for bloat, but I didn’t alter her diet because of it. Sometimes she eats stuff that isn’t “on the menu” so to speak, mostly I blame my kitties because they love hunting and killing — just not eating their kills, which they leave for the alley cats. And for Amiga, sometimes she finds these before I do and accounts for occasional fur/feathers in her stools (Amiga’s also killed a mourning dove, robin, grackle, and a magpie). At least they’ve learned not to bring them in the house! I’m following all the best-practice guidelines for avoiding bloat, so hopefully this was a one-time thing, scary for both of us…

[theBCnut]

Remember that those are higher calorie foods so he should need less of them than he did of Pedigree. If he is eating around 3 cups a day don’t worry. It’s good to let a large breed pup grow up thin so they don’t have extra stress on their hips. Large breed pups have special needs when it comes to food. Too much calcium can make their bones grow too fast so their joints don’t form properly. Here is a list of foods that Hound Dog Mom put together that have the right amount of calcium for large breed pups.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
There is also a thread discussing large breed puppy nutrition issues under Diet and Health Issues.