[Susan]

Hi T.G has your girl only ever eaten just Orijen kibble have you tried any other kibbles cause of her poos are soft?
you need to try a lower protein & a lower fat kibble some dogs just do not do well on high protein high fat kibbles, I have to stay under 28% for protein & stay under 15% for fat & need a lower Kcal/per cup ME kibble, under 380 Kcals/per cup….

I would not feed a senior kibble to a large breed puppy the senior kibbles have more Glucosamine, Chondroitin & Phosphorus, supplements for older dogs joints & you have a large breed you don’t want her bones to grow too quick…maybe someone else may know more…
I’ve emailed kibble companies cause I’ve seen large breed kibbles that have ingredients that my boy can eat & the fat & protein is what Patch does well on, I’ve asked them can I feed a large breed formula to my medium size dog & they have all yes its Ok to feed my boy a large breed kibble but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feed a senior formula to a large breed growing pup…
My boy is turning 8 in a few days & I don’t feed him a senior kibble some are too high in fiber for him & all the supplements they add don’t survive or aren’t as strong as when you add your own supplement to their diet & add a healthy fresh whole food to their diet…

You have to be careful with your dog doing sloppy poos everyday that she doesn’t get thickening of the bowel as she gets older. My boy is a rescue & has IBD, his vet was very worried that Patch may have thickening of the bowel & I didn’t want Patch opened up to find out so Patch had an Ultra Scan of the bowel, pancreas, stomach etc & from what the vet could see it didn’t look like Patch had thickening of the bowel….after rotating cooked foods & different kibbles he can just be put straight onto another brand of kibble that he has eatin before I don’t have to re introduce the kibble like I use too 3 yrs ago, but I stick with kibbles that are lower in fat & lower in protein cause he just can’t handle the higher Kcal formulas.. I also fed a home cooked meal for breakfast or swap around & feed cooked meal for dinner…

I’d start rotating between different brands & proteins this way if 1 kibble isn’t balanced properly, or something else is wrong with the kibble like the omega 6 is too high & the omega 3 is real low causing health problems this way they are not eating the same kibble for too long to cause any serious health problems…
I’d start looking at other large breed formula’s where the protein fat is lower then what she’s eating at the moment also change the protein get a different protein…

There’s Earthborn Holistic, they have never had a recall, there’s “Victor” or “Sport Dog Food Elite” Sport Dog Food has similar ingredients as Victor kibble but is cheaper, there’s Ziwi Peak is air dried raw & has wet tin foods as well my cat loves Ziwi Peak…There’s Canidae there’s a few really good kibbles around, they all don’t have to be 5 stars kibble…start adding fresh whole foods to the kibble…I follow Rodney Habib on face Book he’s got a really good video this week about chicken kibbles being high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3….
Start rotating one of these brands in your rotation that is lower in fat & protein with different ingredients also look at the Kcals per cup, pick a kibble that is lower in Kcals per cup then the Orijen she is eating at the moment…I can not feed any kibbles that are over 400Kcals per cup to my IBD dog, it’s just too much for him to digest & he does sloppy big poos about 3-4 a day…
I like kibbles where he only does 2 poos a day, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & Canidae Life Stages, All Life Stages formula, he only does 2 firm poos a day & poo’s are small….

Home Page

http://www.sportdogfood.com/grain-free-large-breed-large-bites-30-14/
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
http://ziwipeak.com/

[T. G.]

I have a 6 month old Golden who has been on Orijen large breed puppy since I brought her home at 8 weeks. Her stool has always been like soft serve ice cream – sometimes a bit better. I’ve given her probiotics, rice, pumpkin and it helps a little. I want to switch her to a great food that will firm up her poo. And from what I’ve read, she is probably old enough to go to an adult food soon. I’m just not happy with the potato and legumes I’m seeing in even Acana foods.

I also have an 8 year old German Shepherd mix on Orijen Senior. He had the same issue as the Golden on Orijen Adult, but does GREAT and looks amazing on Orijen Senior. It would be super convenient to feed them both the same food, but like I said, I really like the Orijen ingredients better than any other food I’ve seen.

I’ve been doing a side by side comparison of the Orijen adult to Orijen senior. It really isn’t that different except less fat, more fiber. Acana is quite far off in comparison – more calcium than I’d like too.

So, if the food is good, the nutrients are there, and the calcium levels are not too high (they aren’t I checked using the calcium/phosporus calculator on this site) would there be any harm in trying Orijen senior for my 6 month old? What do I need to consider?

Here’s the comparison. Sorry the formatting is wonky.

. Orijen adult , orijen senior, acana

Crude protein (min.) 38% 38% 29 %
Crude fat (min.) 18% 15% 17 %
Crude fiber (max.) 5% 8% 6 %
Moisture (max.) 10% 10% 12 %
Calcium (min./max) 1.3 / 1.6 % 1.2 / 1.5 % 1.70%
Phosphorus (min./max) 1 / 1.3 % 0.9 / 1.2 % 1 %
Omega-6 (min.) 3% 2.50% 2.10%
Omega-3 (min.) 1.10% 1% 0.8 %
DHA (min.) 0.60% 0.60% 0.15%
EPA (min.) 0.30% 0.30% 0.15%
Ash (max.) 8% 8% 9 %
Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg 1400 mg/kg 600 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg 1200 mg/kg 800 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 120M cfu/kg
pH 5.5 5.5
Vitamin A 30 kIU/kg 16 kIU/kg 50
Vitamin D 3 2 kIU/kg 1 kIU/kg 3500
Vitamin E 470 IU/kg 400 IU/kg 250
Vitamin B12 0.5 mg/kg 0.5 mg/kg 0.15
Thiamine 70 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Riboflavin 55 mg/kg 45 mg/kg
Niacin 390 mg/kg 450 mg/kg
Pan. Acid (B5) 64 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Pyridoxine (B6) 52 mg/kg 38 mg/kg
Folic Acid 4.7 mg/kg 5.2 mg/kg 1.3
Choline 2400 mg/kg 2700 mg/kg 1900
Sodium 0.30% 0.40% 0.3
Chloride 0.60% 0.64% 0.5
Potassium 1.00% 0.77% 0.8
Magnesium 0.12% 0.10% 0.13
Manganese 25 mg/kg 27 mg/kg
Selenium 1.2 mg/kg 0.9 mg/kg
Iron 230 mg/kg 240 mg/kg 180
Zinc 240 mg/kg 200 mg/kg 255
Copper 26 mg/kg 26 mg/kg 20
Iodine 3.6 mg/kg 1.8 mg/kg 2.7
Lysine 2.40% 2.45% 2.08
Tryptophan 0.40% 0.38% 1.2
Threonine 1.60% 1.50% 0.46
Tyrosine 0.98% 0.98%
Methionine 0.80% 0.80%
Isoleucine 1.50% 1.50% 1.15
Leucine 2.90% 2.90% 2.2
Valine 1.90% 1.85% 1.5
Arginine 2.50% 2.20% 2.15
Phenylalanine 1.60% 1.60% 1.38
Histidine 0.90% 0.80% 0.71
Cystine 0.40% 0.35% 0.32

• This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by T. G..

[C C]

After the devastation of the loss of our beloved Sheltie and the toxic bag of Kentucky produced food, we now have another Sheltie puppy to love. Can I prove the “food” is what killed her, no, and I only wish I would have saved the product and packaging to be analyzed. But I can tell you the vet at the specialist hospital we ended up taking her to said to be sure to totally change from this “food” with our next pet to avoid all we went through. We are transitioning our new puppy from what she has been on slowly over to Honest Kitchen. This is literally human grade and I would recommend it to anyone who has seriously investigated the pathetic quality of today’s dog food. I contacted Champion to tell them Katie died and they were even more insensitive than when I expressed all the issues we were having. I got absolutely NO response from them about her death. This speaks volumes to me about this company. I thank everyone for their feedback and offers of sympathy. It truly means a lot to me and to my husband.

[Mary V]

Kirstie M… I guess, the best reason I can think of to feed sardines is because they are so nutrient dense. High quality protein. Bones and “guts” intact – also one comment endorses feeding raw sardines, but I have no idea where to get them on a consistent basis. Freeze dried might be a good option:http://www.mycanadianpets.ca/gpage3.html.

I’m getting an Irish Setter puppy in a few weeks and I will be supplementing her kibble diet with some sardines, as well as some lightly steamed vegetables (http://dogaware.com/articles/dwveggies.html) and a little fruit. I also am thinking I will add dehydrated Green Tripe: http://ivcjournal.com/raw-green-tripe/.

I think you should relax. Even dogs are only fed med-high quality kibble seem to do just fine. I have a 13 year old Aussie bitch who’s eaten mostly Purina One dog food all of her life. She has been virtually problem free health wise, and still acts like a much younger dog. I’ve moved her to a grain free of late, and she likes it better and continues to do very well.

Hope this is of use to you.

[Blkdoodle]

My Goldendoodle had been on Hill’s also but they changed the formula and the label stated all imported products. That was enough for me to change to a USA product and manufacturer. I keep track of her calories, she is 31 months old and she is now on Instinct Raw dried food and loves it. It’s more pricey but I can feed her less to get the same calories. I notice on the bag it’s puppy to adult. Hope this helps.

[MomOfThor]

Hi all!
i’m super new to this forum and so far I love it!!! I’m getting my black lab puppy this Saturday and the info on food is super confusing to me. Raw food, kibble, mix…can’t really decide. I was going with the raw but having a 20 months old son around raw eating dog kind of scares me. So we decided to feed him kibble for the first few months and then switch him to raw. He’s on Puppy Chow at the breeder right now and I’m switching him from that as soon as I get him. I did but a bag of Puppy Chow to make the transition easier for him by mixing it with the new food, just can’t decide what food to put him on. I live in Canada and there is a wide variety of good high end quality food, just can’t make up my mind. Help this new momma pleeeease!!! Thank you!!!

[Carol P]

Hi, I’m bringing home a Golden puppy in 2 weeks and he is eating Acana Heritage Fresh water Fish. I don’t see any Acanas in the large breed puppy list and was wondering if it’s not good for a large breed puppy or if it is too new to have made the list. It says “all life stages” on the bag. I plugged in the numbers in the calculator, 1% calcium, .8 phosphorus, and 3475 calories. It comes to 2.9 g per 1000kcal and Ca to P ratio = 1.3-1. It looks like it fits into the levels for large breed puppies. I have a call into Acana to make sure I have the max levels and not min., with nothing changing does this food work for a large breed puppy?

One other question if it doesn’t work out, what else can I feed him that doesn’t have chicken or white potatoes? Chicken because my other dog is allergic to it, and white potatoes per the breeder. I’d prefer grain free if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[CockalierMom]

Hi Leslie,

I recently had the same problem with my girls after feeding them food without probiotics for a few months. I do not think Science Diet puppy has probiotics in it and your puppy probably has not developed enough gut bacteria yet to handle a transition. I know a lot of people say the probiotics in kibble are useless, but I never had a problem doing a food transition when my girls were eating a kibble that had probiotics.

I would suggest adding a good dog probiotic with multiple strains of bacteria and a prebiotic in it, or if you use one without prebiotics, add kefir, yogurt, or goat’s milk in also.

[Susan]

Hi, please get your Science Diet puppy food that your pup does good on, now read the Fat % the Protein % the Fiber % try & find a kibble with grains not grain free, cause the Science Diet uses crappy grains & there’s good premium kibbles with good grains & sweet potatoes that will be better then the Science Diet your feeding…
With the TOTW did the try “Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb”?? it’s an all life stages kibble & has the least ingredients & the protein is only 25%, fat is 15%, I have a IBD boy & he does really well on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, it doesn’t have Garbanzo beans or lentils, Legumes, stay away from kibbles with Chickpeas, Lentils, Legumes…. have a look at “Holistic Select” Puppy/Adult its a grain free or the Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardines & Salmon & Rice or look at “Wellness Simple” range… Look for kibbles with limited ingredients that have brown rice there’s even “California Natural” it has limited ingredients only 3-4 ingredients & no peas, when my boy first stared eating kibbles with peas he got real bad wind…. Cause your pup is use to eating the Science Diet kibble you have to slowly introduce new foods in his diet once he’s doing well on a premium kibble, its taken me 3 yrs for Patch, & now he can eat apple, lean pork, lean beef, broccoli, carrot, egg, tuna. salmon, sweet potatoes, pumkin, raw almonds… I slowly started introducing all these foods once he was doing well on a kibble, TOTW Sierra Mountain, then I would give a couple pieces of peeled apple as a treat for 2 weeks, then 1 spoon pumkin with his kibble, then sweet potato etc… You will get there…
The other day I tried Artemis Turkey & Garbanzo beans, I had originally ordered Artemis Duck & Sweet Potato kibble but Pet place had sold out & gave me Artemis new formula & poor Patch was sick with diarrhea for 2-3 days until he was put on Metronidazole… 🙁 I’ll have to return & say he wont eat it, always check if the kibble is money back guaranteed.

[Christina R]

Hi everyone,
i have a question that i have been deliberating over for a while now and am rather worried about. I don’t feel comfortable feeding my dog a whole bone to eat. I know i won’t get the teeth cleaning benefits if i grind up the bone but i should still get the calcium to phosphorus ratio even if i feed it finely ground up, right? The calcium won’t over or under absorb.

The second question i have is can i mix different raw meats together for my puppy? I have seen several pictures of raw salmon, liver, etc. all mixed together in one bowl. Is this safe to do or do i need to make sure to give only chicken with chicken liver and not say ground pork with chicken liver? I know this is not good for humans but is it different for dogs?

[Ramona F]

Hi Erin
My lab was 14 lbs at 8 weeks and big in the litter and she is 90 lbs now at 2.5 years . I have fed her grain free fish with a switch once in a while to duck and turkey. For the first year I spent money on the high cost foods such as Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I now feed Horizon Pulsar.
I chose Grain Free to avoid hot spots and because my last lab had cancer at 12 and the recommendation was to remove grains. I had fed her lamb and rice.
I never feed milk as its another source of hot spots.
My lab is healthy vibrant and strong.

[goldenstar]

I have my 8 month old Golden Retriever on TOTW High Prairie Puppy food. I too think there may be better choices, but I am trying to keep her away from chicken meal. There are just a few LBP puppy foods that don’t have chicken meal. I was feeding her Orijen. She did fine for a while and then she would not tolerate it. She had serious potty problems. I tried to slowly get her back on it, but each time, the potty problems came back. Within a few days of giving her TOTW the potty problems went away and has not had a problem since. I don’t know for sure if she had a reaction to chicken meal or something else that was in the food. I was told that sometimes chicken meal can cause an intolorance. Maybe it was just too rich for her. But now, I hesitate to try anything with chicken meal. I don’t want her to go through another bad time with diarrhea.
She is doing fine on TOTW.
I am open to suggestions for another LBP food that does not have chicken meal. Or if anyone knows about chicken meal in tolerance, let me know. Thanks.

[Susan W]

My dogs were having issues with the food I was feeding them so I switched to homemade food – which was good until I didn’t have the time to do it anymore. I looked around & did lots of research. I settled on VeRUS. Their itchiness & overall health improved greatly w/o digestive issues. They have a large breed puppy food and they publish their ingredient list & nutritional profiles on the website. If you have questions, they actually take the time to answer them. If you contact them, they’ll send free samples. I get my VeRUS food via PetFlow which will give a discount if you auto-ship. It’s very good dog food and the cost is in line or less than some of the other premium foods. You can find them by searching for VeRUS pet foods.

[HoundMusic]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good puppy food (or all life stages formula) for a four month old Beagle pup? Looking specifically for something that has moderate levels of calcium and lower levels of phosphorous.

Currently feeding one that is 1.58% calcium & 1.2% phos, and that is TOO HIGH for this pup. Intervertebral disc disease runs RAMPANT in this bloodline, and high phos/protein foods during growth, and afterwards, can be disastrous for this condition. I started him on this current brand a little over a week ago, and immediately noticed a very slight bunny hopping and rear leg “hitching” many of these hounds will develop with high protein feeds that cause super rapid growth spurts (which he just had).

I’ve had good luck growing such pups with raw when doing a higher meat:bone ratio – however, while two days of it did stop the hitching, I was noticing bouts of shivering that only stopped when switched back to dry food. I have absolutely no idea what was going on there – been feeding raw going on 15 yrs (on & off), and never saw anything like it, but I think raw is out of the question, at least for the time being.

Any suggestions welcome. I’ve had him on four different foods in 5-6 weeks and am ready to pull out my hair :/

[Jenn H]

Funny I noticed the same thing when I looking at puppy food. My guy was on Wellness Core. As he got bigger he was needing a lot more. Obviously. On Wellness I was up to about 6 or 7 cups/ day. That’s insane. I hate feeding that much kibble anyway. Even after all that food he would still be so hungry.
I tried Solid Gold. He was much more satisfied on that and required less until he grew more. Then it was back to a huge amount.
Orijen was too dense, but he needed less and was finally satisfied. Unfortunately his butt wasn’t.
Acana has been the best for him so far. Not as rich as Orijen, but working out just fine. He’s happy.
While the price/bag is more, the price/meal is less. This is because he doesn’t need to eat as much. I’ve actually been able to cut back 1/2 cup.

It is a pain to do the math, but is so worth it to take the time. Most importantly for his health. Too much kibble will cause bloat.

[Dena B]

Suzanne, I’m heart broken for you and what seems like the many others that are finding this information out too late. I wonder has anyone thought of contacting a TV News Crew in their local area? I know like Channel 3 here in Phoenix has 3 on your side and so does ABC. I just wonder if we could get some more light spread on this? I’d love some feedback. Please feel free to contact me on my personal email. I’m going to be brave. [email protected]

There is an update. Since my husband and I switched to Nutro Lite Healthy Dog food for Nash our Ridgeback Hound he is doing amazing! The cost of the food is not much more expensive than the Kirkland brand we were buying and it ships to your door. We get ours through a subscription on Amazon. Def worth looking into. He has lost weight, no longer bloated or vomiting and having regular stools. Big improvement. We are expecting a new little Scoodle next week as my new emotional service dog (Scottish terrier/poodle mix) She will be 10 weeks and I can’t wait to get her. You all can follow me on FB/Twitter/Snapchat too. She will be on Nutro Small breed Puppy for the first year. Make no mistake no cheap food here anymore. Price has been paid.

Well, I’m glad to stay informed and I hate to read these said stories. Prays and support for all who’ve lost or are dealing with sick Fur Babies. It’s just the worst.

Smiles
Dena B.

[Molly F]

I realized I should have posted this as a new topic, not buried at the end of another topic!
So, sorry if it’s a repeat for some:
Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas.
I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?
I know many people recommend a more “primal” style diet, but I’m on a tight budget these days and the grain component will Really help stretch my dollar!

[Molly F]

Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas. I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?

[mary s]

Hello pitluv – I am new to the forum. I am getting an 8 week old Irish Setter in a few days. I have been reading this thread for a many hours (whew!) and first want to say a huge thank you to all….especially Hound Dog Mom. My puppy has been on Iams large breed puppy food. I will want to transition him to another food asap. He is 7 weeks old and weighs 14 pounds! That seems like a lot to me…but I haven’t had a setter puppy in 12 years. I have the lists, and HDM’s comments read, and am leaning towards The Honest Kitchen and Fromm’s large breed puppy. I will feed him raw eventually, but my vet is saying to wait until about 8 months because he is a Setter. I stopped reading at 850 comments, and would like to know if there is a newer list after that (around Sept, 2013) that HDM may have posted/compiled. The last list I am referring to is where she included raw and grain inclusive? Also, I read a comment you made a few days ago about Orijin reformulating the large breed puppy…is that correct? Is it now acceptable for the LBP list HDM started a few years ago? I remember she did not recommend it back then. Thank you.

[Susan]

Hi Peter, I have the same problem with my dog Patch that has IBD & food/skin allergies, tooo many big poo’s on certain kibbles…..Look at the Protein % as well, too much protein can also make poos bigger & softer, when my IBD boy eats a kibble with 30% & over in protein, he does 4-5 poos a day & when he eats kibbles with fillers like corn, gluten meal, barley, oats, millet, he gets itchy smelly skin & does big sloppy poos.. when I feed a kibble with under 30% protein around 26% protein & grain free with limited ingredients, my boy does only 2 poos a day…Taste Of The Wild, Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb seems to suit him the best out of all the kibbles I have tried & Canidae Pure Land, he does 1-2 small poos a day. Both these kibbles have limited ingredients…

Just keep rotating different brands of kibble until you work out which brands your pup does the best on, then rotate between them, never just feed the same brand for years & years also start adding some fresh whole foods to his kibble as well…

Finally people are telling these pet food industries, we’ve had enough, we love our pets & we want the best for them & don’t want to feed a kibble with maize, corn gluten meal, beet pulp, tallow, by-product meats, preservatives, food colouring etc…..
Back in the 1940-1980 dogs were feed table scraps & those dogs were much more healthier, they were not feed processed kibbles with maize/corn, gluten meal & by-product meats, they ate what we ate…then in the 90’s Hills & a few other pet food companies started saying, Don’t feed foods we eat, it’s not good for your dog, your dog needs a well balanced diet dry KIBBLE & people followed like sheep & still to this day, there’s still some un educated people who say “Oh no, you can’t feed your dogs & cats foods we eat”…..
50 yrs later finally people like Rodney Habib (someone you should follow on F/B) is saying enough is enough to these pet food companies & educating people to feed fresh meats, fresh fruits, fresh veggies again like our parents did…..Back in the 50’s 60’s & 70’s, dogs didn’t get cancer & have all these food & skin allergies, dogs didn’t have as many health problems as they do today, why??
Watch a video Rodney Habib put together called “Maggies Story the Oldest Dog in the World” Maggie was a kelpie X Cattle dog that lived on a dairy farm, Victoria Australia, she wasn’t over vaccinated, she only had her puppy vaccinations, she wasn’t desexed until she was 14yr old cause a dairy worker brought his dog with him & Maggie fell pregnant, she lived till she was 30yrs old & just passed away in her sleep this year…she wasn’t feed kibble, you have to watch the video to see what she ate & drank…

Your on the right track, you’ve know about ingredients in kibbles, now start looking at healthy foods to add to the kibble, they did a study & found dogs that were feed 1 tablespoon of fresh foods added to kibble just 3 times a week reduced their chances of getting cancer, the post is on Rodney Habib F/B page, there’s lots of excellent info on Rodney F/B page https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib/?pnref=story

Have you tried Ziwi Peak Air dried raw?, I use the Ziwi Peak as treats when I don’t have any fruit like apple, water melon or raw almonds & I have just started my 5 month kitten on the cat Ziwi Peak & then when she loses her teeth I will be giving her a chicken wing once a week to clean her teeth, look after your pups teeth, small breeds are prone to teeth problems, give a raw chicken wing once/twice a week for breakfast, peel off the skin so there’s less fat…also email kibble companies & ask for samples..Ziwi Peak sends out samples http://www.ziwipeak.com Good-Luck

[Diana L]

Hello,

I recently rescued a puppy who is a survivor of parvo, he is the only one out of 5 of his siblings that survived. He is currently 5 months old and 9.7 lbs, yorkie poodle mix, and has been diagnosed with giardia about 3 weeks ago. They prescribed him a round of panacur, followed by a round of flagyl, both of which he completed. They also insisted on feeding him Hills I/D prescription diet (sensitive) Rice & Egg formula. None of this seems to be working. His stool is mushy and greasy looking (no chunks of mucus like it was originally), he has shown a huge increase in shedding, and seems to be very itchy and biting his paws on occasion. They now have prescribed him another round of flagyl (metronidazole, 100mg). I am at a loss, I typically take a more balanced approach between holistic and western medicine for both myself and my dog. But the vet seems adamant about staying on track with this food and medication. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am convinced the food has worsened the condition of his stool but i am also bias as I only give my dogs USA “human grade” premium foods, I also used to cook my previous dogs food (of course mixing it with a number of plant based supplements). Either way, I really am not sure what to do, I am so scared my little puppy is going to worsen, he has been through so much already, any input is greatly appreciated!

Also, we do have him on a probiotic called Synacore Digestive Support (Van Beek is the brand) + a chewable digestive enzyme (which also has a probiotic in it) the brand is NaturVet.

[Bag of Opals]

I’m calling her Opal, and will be bringing her home this weekend. She’s a toy breed mix and the cutest little thing. Opal is going to be fed raw during the day and some Ivory Coat (an Australian dry food) at night. I’ve read about rotation feeding and agree this is a good idea. However, there’s already going to be a lot of variety in the food, so should I leave everything as is or still try to find something new to swap in every now and then? This is what I am seeking suggestions on. I’ve lived with pups, but not actually raised one myself.

The raw food is possible thanks to my parents. They make it for their Sheltie and Irish Wolfhound (the latter managed to steal a chicken wing last night!) with some extra to give to me, so I’m not exactly in a position to dictate what ingredients go into the mix. It’s ground up and contains:

-Lamb mince, liver and heart
-Pork tongue
-Sardines
-Chicken wings
-Crushed eggshell
-Peas and carrots

Very nice, but is there still a risk of developing food sensitivities because these proteins are all being fed at once? I’ve considered purchasing something like the Ziwipeak beef and venison canned formulas, but they’re not cheap and I’d like to avoid that expense if it’s not necessary.

As for Ivory Coat, their puppy formula is chicken-based. I plan to rotate among the other formulas in the brand when Opal’s grown up. I know a lot of folks here advocate rotating between brands as well as flavours, but I want to support an Aussie company, plus this seems to be the only dry food here with a protein % in the 30s. That’s not to say we don’t have good imported choices, but they just don’t compare.

Reactions to chicken are probably as common as they are because so many puppy foods use it… The only non-chicken food specifically for puppies that I know of and is available over here is TOTW Pacific Stream. Diamond, gah. Opal should be fine with just Ivory Coat, but I’m a paranoid lady and want the best for her.

[Anice H]

Hi I am getting my malamute puppy in 5 weeks time I know the breeder feeds them lams puppy food please I would appreciate your impute on this brand or if there is another one I should try

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Anice H.

[pitlove]

Hi Chris-

The main reason vet’s recommend Purina is because they believe in the food. It is formulated by nutritionists, veterinarians, and other specialists. Many vet’s feel this is important when choosing a food. They are also one of the leading researchers (aside from Hill’s) in large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. I personally feed Pro Plan and after trying many of the “better”(including Orijen and Acana) dog foods, find that Pro Plan works the best for my allergy dog and my food intolerant cat.

Of course the vet’s who sell Purina make money off of it, just like the independant pet store that sells Orijen makes money off that too. I’m unaware of vet’s actually getting kickbacks for selling food and I have worked at a vet’s office. They get discounts on food, but so do I working at an independant pet store and so do the workers at Petco and PetSmart. I personally don’t see the difference, but that’s just me.

Most people do not like Blue Buffalo because of the lack of integrity on the companies part and their dishonesty during the recent law suit. Also they are quite overpriced for what you are actually getting.

[Susan W]

Hi Chris,
I climbed on the VeRUs pet food bandwagon when they had a person contact me and they sent me actual samples of their food (instead of coupons). I have had FANTASTIC results from feeding my dogs their foods.
Neither of my dogs is a puppy anymore. However, VeRUS HAS a large breed puppy formula in addition to their regular puppy formula. You can contact them via their website. They have a lot of info there and they will answer your questions, as well. Their website is veruspetfoods.com
They’ve never had a recall, either. It’s a great company with great products.

[Christine M]

Hi,

My poor Bear is not quite 4 and has suffered from bad teeth his whole life. Any suggestions on what to do besides frequent dentals and tooth brushing? He is an American Eskimo, and at 6 months old required his first dental. We got another dental done in december and he lost a tooth… And it looks like he will lose at least two more on the top that have bad cavities near the base of the tooth… My poor baby. He’s going for a dental checkup on Saturday, but wanted to get some info on other steps before then.

We are currently feeding him Orijen Adult dry dog food (we are in Canada). He won’t eat the vet dental food and I’m not a fan of the ingredients anyways. I’m not really into raw feeding due to the possibility of bacteria, etc., and Bear doesn’t seem to care much for many of the pre-made raw foods out there anyways.

He likes the CET chews and they helped him a lot but they are hard to find now, so we got the Enzadent ones but they don’t do as much for him. He gets bully sticks to chew too (they always have a few to chew on).

We probably still aren’t brushing his teeth enough, but he tolerates it quite well. We use the CET toothpaste from the vet and a normal toothbrush… We tried one of the powered toothbrushes for pets but he hated it and he doesn’t like the ones which go around the whole tooth.

Any other recommendations for water additives, etc.? We also have a 4 mo old puppy but his teeth are fine.

[Blake E]

We are in need of some advice, we have got own first puppy. Ted is an 11 week old Cockapoo, we had been feeding on the ‘Royal Canine Mini Junior’ but we had decided we wanted to feed him in a raw food diet. So we went into to PAH and brought a bag of Natures Menu Puppy Raw food, however after giving Ted his first meal this morning of Raw Food, it is as though this has gone straight throu him and now has diarrhoea.

So I gues my question is are we right to of done this so soon? Or should we of kept him in dry food??

Thanks in advance!!

[Alicia S]

I have a Great Dane, my second one, and they eat more and more food until they reach a certain age and weight then yes they start to eat less and less because they are not growing any more. I fed her Orijen Puppy Large breed and use the chart on the back of the bag to help determine how much to feed her based on her current weight, current age, and what she should weigh in the future.

[Sandra W]

Hi all – I wanted to chime in on the fats/protein issue. My dog has a very sensitive stomach and gets sick on food that is too fatty. Sick as in up-chucking. I have to be really careful with all dog foods, even dry foods. My doggy baby is a GSD and is about 18 m-o. I read a lot of this thread from the more recent posts (this year & last) and did a lot of research. I contact several pet food companies and asked for samples and usually just got auto-email coupons for a few dollars off. I’m going to get on the Verus bandwagon with Susan. Their VP responded to my contact! Yes, they’re a small company but I like that they care enough about dogs to ask questions and communicate. I’m feeding the Verus large breed puppy food & will for a few more months. Around the end of the year I will start switching over to an adult Verus formula. I know if I have questions or issues, I can contact the people at Verus and get answers. That’s important to me.

[anonymously]

I don’t know what the correct amount of kibble/food for your puppy would be.
However, I can tell you that the amounts recommended on the dog food bags tend to be too much.
I am more familiar with smaller dogs, for example I have a 20 pound adult dog that gets 1/4 cup of quality kibble mixed with about 1/4 cup (or less) of cooked lean meat, chicken, scrambled egg twice a day, maybe a bite of cooked chicken breast mid-day as a snack.
Funny thing though, my 10 pound dog eats almost the same amount.
Both are moderately active and fit.

As puppies I fed them 3 small meals per day till they were about 6-7 months old.
Puppies will overeat if you let them, I don’t free feed. Don’t forget, add a little water to meals. A lot of dogs don’t drink enough water. Frequent bathroom breaks, every 2 hours if possible to aid with housebreaking.
Hope this helps.

[Josh H]

I got a puppy about a little over a week ago, but I haven’t had a dog in 10+ years. I use to feed my old dog Blue Buffalo and so that’s what I got my new puppy (Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy). About 4 days later he stopped eating all of his food and he would literally turn his nose up at it. He wasn’t throwing up, nor did he have diarrhea (I suspected he just didn’t like his food). So I joined this site and started doing a ton of research. I got a 5lbs bag of Wellness Core Puppy (which he absolutely loves) and the only way he will eat the Blue Buffalo food is if I mix it in with the Wellness. In terms of Blue Buffalo, I was shocked that they admitted to lying about ingredients, have been outsourcing certain ingredients and has been having recalls. I want the best for my puppy, but is Blue Buffalo a brand I can trust or has it just gone downhill? I think eventually I want him on just Wellness which seems pretty good, or is there something else I should be giving him?

[Eric C]

I have been feeding my 12 week yellow lab Dick VanPats Natural Balance. She is clearly gaining a bit too much weight, but this is likely due to my portions being too high. However, after doing research here I do want to change food. I am torn between the following:

Fromm – Heartland Gold Large Breed Grain Free Puppy
Fromm – Gold Hollistic Large Breed Puppy
Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy
Wellness Large Breed Complete Health Puppy

The chart I saw posted early in this thread seems to only one of these Wellness listed, but not sure which one it refer to. Also, the Fromm listed in the calcium chart has the Fromm Four Star Nutritionals, but not the puppy specific formulas. Has the chart been updated? Is there a better choice for my lab for her hips? Does this mean only the Fromm and Wellness listed in the chart has the recommended balance of calcium ideal for my late breed?

Thanks in advance

[Lom A]

Hello, i bought my husky siberian 4 month puppy the food Go! Sensitive + shine turkey for all life stages because she have a sensitive stomach, i found out after i alredy bought the food that he dont containing any DHA at all, how its posible that the food tag as all life stages, and i like to know if its realy good for my puppy? , thanks.

[Lom A]

Hello, i bought my husky siberian 4 month puppy the food Go! Sensitive + shine turkey for all life stages because she have a sensitive stomach, i found out after i alredy bought the food that he dont containing any DHA at all, how its posible that the food tag as all life stages, and i like to know if its realy good for my puppy, thank.

[Susan W]

Andrea,
While you’re researching puppy foods, please check out VeRUS. I have been feeding my dogs this food (adult formulas) for about 6 months and it has made a HUGE difference in them! They have a large breed puppy formula, they have canned foods, they supplements. If you fill out their contact form, someone will get in touch with you and ask/answer questions before sending samples. The samples are great. At least you’ll have something to try that won’t cost you anything.

[pitlove]

Hi Andrea-

Welcome and congrats! I love Cane Corso’s! That is the next breed I plan on owning 🙂

I can certainly understand how crazy you must feel right now worrying about the best food to feed him. There are so many choices now for large/giant breed puppy foods, how can you possibly pick a best one?

Obviously calcium levels are of upmost importance, but so are other things like digestability, palatability, bioavailablity just to name a few. Also because growth for large and giant breeds is such an important and critical time in their life, I do prefer (but am not commited to) brands that have nutritionists staffed or consult with nutritionists to forumlate the food. Since I’m relying on this food to provide everything for my puppy in the proper amounts, I place value on that. Most of the companies that do that are larger companies that have more resources because of more money. I do understand however, that many people do not feel comfortable using brands of food from larger companies like Purina and Hill’s. A food I would highly consider looking into if you do not want to use a product from Purina or Hill’s is Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (not the grain free). It is formulated by a vet and a veterinary nutritionist and has gone through feeding trials. Another brand I also really like is NutriSource because of it’s high digestability and palatability.

Another huge thing that people overlook with growing large breed puppies is by all means keep them lean! It keeps stress off the joints and growing bones and can also greatly help reduce the risk for bone disorders during growth and later in life. You can use the Purina Body Condition Score to access his weight and make sure he is staying at a 4/9.

Best of luck! Post some pictures if you can when you get him!

[Kellye P]

Linda,
Thank you so much for your kind words. I held the little paw print that came with Duffy’s ashes and cried a bit. 😢

The one thing I did that made the biggest positive impact was finding the Chi Institute herbalist. It’s a real shame that Duffy was so allergic to cinnamon because the formula for diabetics gets rave reviews but it’s full of various forms of cinnamon. However, the Chi Institute vet had other herbal formulas that helped a lot with keeping him content in other ways. Duffy was drug free except for insulin and he never had any problems with stiffness or liver or bladder or anything except the dad-blasted glucose!!!
I highly recommend finding a local Chi Institute herbalist because Kismet can probably handle cinnamon just fine and the formula will help.

http://www.tcvm.com/Resources/FindaTCVMPractitioner.aspx

The Solid Gold food isn’t necessarily for diabetics but since Duffy would eat it, he got it every day and he thrived on it. My vet wanted him to get at least 300 calories a day, which meant over half a can. With any other food, that would have been impossible, but I could get 1/3 cup in Duffy twice a day and then little bonus bits as baked treats. The food is very thick so I could slice it and bake it as crunchy treats as well as feed it straight from the can.
Also, a trick I thought of that seemed to work —
I took Acana duck kibble (“cool” for diabetes), put it in the food processor, and chopped it to a fine powder. I added 1/8 cup of the powder to the canned food for added calories.
It didn’t add much bulk and Duffy didn’t notice the extra food.

He was so hard to keep alive. Even as a puppy, he refused to eat. He never saw food as a reward. He never begged for treats. I always had to force him to eat but it wasn’t a big deal until he became diabetic. That when he HAD to eat twice a day, and had to eat the same amount of food.

What breed is Kismet? Do you use the super short needle syringes? I had my pharmacy special order them. Duffy was like a baby bird so he needed everything very small. I ordered the glucose/ketone test strips from Amazon. They had the two test pads on each strip. I used an electrolyte supplement in his water. It was an unsweetened brand made for dogs. It’s also sold on Amazon.
Let me know how things go for Kismet. Best wishes!!

[Susan]

Hi my boy suffers with Food Sensitivities & Environment allergies.. your best of doing an elimination food diet to make sure she is sensitive to chicken?? My boy is sensitive to chicken he gets red paws, itchy ears, itchy skin & sloppy poos, as soon as I feed cooked or raw chicken his paws went red & hot within 20mins, also when he eats a kibble with
barley, corn, maize, gluten meal….
“Taste Of The Wild” puppy formulas both are chicken free & no chicken fat….one is Pacific Stream puppy with Smoked Salmon the other one is High Prairie Puppy with Roasted Bison & Roasted Venison….your better off feeding the Salmon kibble. Fish is a cooling meat where beef isn’t my boy itches when I made him Beef rissoles now I feed pork rissole with sweet potato for dinner & the Taste Of The Wild Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble for breakfast, the TOTW Sierra Mountain is an all life stages kibble & can be feed to a puppy & is chicken free. send TOTW an email ask for some puppy samples & All Life Stages kibbles for a large breed puppy & their booklet so you can read ingredients & which kibbles are All Life Stages kibbles…their samples are pretty big..

also BATHS are the best when your dog has environment allergies, I bath weekly sometimes twice a week depends if Patch is itchy & scratching after a walk…Baths wash off any pollen & allergen that are on their fur & skin & relieve any itch when you wash in the right shampoo I bath Patch in Malaseb medicated shampoo. I also wipe him down with Huggie baby Cucumber & Aloe wipes after going on our daily walks… http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/
Another chicken free kibble is “Holistic Select” Salmon & Anchovy & Sardine Meal Adult & Puppy Health is suppose to be really good for itchy dogs…
http://www.holisticselect.com/
If after changing kibble to an all fish kibble & your dog is still itchy red eyes then book an appointment to see an Dermatologist they are better then a vet, dearer but a Dermatologist knows all about allergies & the skin you’ll end up saving money vets just put the dog on a vet diet & give antibiotics & steroids….Have you tried an antihistamine?? especially her eyes are you sure its not a turned in eye lash?? that can cause irritation & infection, I’d see a new vet for her eye…
besides the red eyes is she itchy all over her body & scratching, red paws or itchy ears?? she may just need the eye drops & be put on a premium kibble..

[pitlove]

Hi Tonya

Welcome to the forums!

Tripett is a canned variety of green beef tripe that is a great topper for kibble because it has a perfect 1:1 ca/phos ratio.

Basically as I’m sure you have learned, excessive calcium and excess weight gain are the two major causes of bone growth disorders in growing large breeds. Some of these diseases don’t manifest until later in life, some manifest early on and then clear up. Either way it is important to feed a food appropriate for a growing large breed. The calcium to phos ratio should not exceed 1:5:1 and the calcium to calorie ratio should not exceed 3g/1000kcals.

Here is the issue….some foods make the claim “All Life Stages” which does mean it can be fed to a puppy or an adult. However, that does not always mean a LBP. Natural Balance makes the claim “All Stages, All Breeds” however that may or may not be true depending on what their nutritional philosophy regarding LBP’s is. Some companies are running on the old tired myth that protein is the main cause of bone growth disorders, dispite this theory being debunked some 20 years ago. They put so much emphasis on low protein that they ignore the calcium content.

Some companies list their “nutrient analysis” right there on their website, which I love! Some do not and you have to email the company and ask for it. Reason this is important is because there is a great tool on DFA here in that thread we orginally were talking on that lets you put in the MAX calcium, MAX phos and the calories/kg of the food and it tells you the calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio. However, you can not use the MIN numbers found on the bag. It does not tell you the true amount of calcium contained in the food. When using the MIN numbers, just about every food on the market would look LBP safe lol.

When it comes to feeding guidelines on the bag, they are simply a guideline. NB is a lower calorie food, so in order to meet the dogs daily caloric requirements, more food needs to be fed. Higher calorie foods would require less. One issue with feeding SO much less than the guidelines is the dog becoming nutrient deficient over time.

A lot of factors come in to play in keeping a dog lean. Being spayed/neutered will decrease metabolism, being less active, consuming too many calories in ratio to what is being burned. Personally, I would reward with something like green beans instead of the Zuke’s treats you are using if you are doing a lot of training with her and she is getting a lot of treats. We don’t use a lot of treats in my house because I’m very careful with my dogs weight. I have 3 kinds of treats right now, each with different kcals/treat and I use them based on how much excersize I feel they have done that day. Many days they don’t get a treat at all because I’m also incorporating raw into their kibble, so that takes up the calories of the treats. Praise is also a good training reward vs a treat.

[Dennis L]

My puppy has been on a raw diet since we got him. We feed a combination of food from My pet carnivore including tripe, whole ground rabbit, whole ground chicken, pork, and beef. I give him raw meaty bones everyday. He was doing great on the bones and even was eating turkey necks, but last week he started chewing all of the meat off the bone and leaving the rest. I tried giving him a chicken thigh and then I went down to chicken wings. He eats the meat off of each bone and leave the rest. He used to crunch the bones up like they were nothing, but he has no interest now.
I know he needs more than the 10 percent bone that is in his ground food so I have been adding bone meal to his food to supplement. I am really not comfortable with this as I don’t want to give him too much calcium. I am wondering if teething is an issue and if anyone has had this problem and if their pups started back up on the bones. Thanks

[DogFoodie]

Hi Oceans11,

I feed my dogs a base of kibble and vary the toppers. The extras I mentioned are the toppers. Sorry I didn’t make that clear! 🙂 I buy small bags of dry food that will be used up within two or three weeks. I rotate foods with each new bag. Neither of my dogs requires a transition. My Cavalier would love to eat raw at every meal, but my Golden turns his nose up at it and walks away. I feed them similarly for my sanity. I can’t feed them the same dry food because my Golden has lots of food sensitivities. They both love raw tripe though. I use tripe as a topper or occasionally a full meal. It stinks to high heaven. I order mine from My Pet Carnivore. I’m on their local home-delivery route. You could also order from Hare Today. I prefer frozen raw over canned.

ALS foods are all life stages. They meet the AAFCO profile for growth. Growth foods are called “puppy” foods by some manufacturers, but some might also refer to growth foods as ALS foods. The other profile is adult maintenance. I prefer not to use maintenance foods. Some foods labelled puppy just might be higher in calories, so it’s a good idea to pay attention to calories (usually listed as kcals per cup) all of the time. Feeding guidelines on bags and cans of food tend to be high. Determine for sure how many calories your pup needs daily and measure it out. Be sure to include calories from all sources… kibble, canned, treats, etc. With a small dog, you might need to weigh food using a digital kitchen scale to ensure accuracy. There’s less room for error when you’re talking about a small number of calories to begin with. Keep an eye on their body condition and use that as your guide for portion control.

If they’re truly hungry at mealtime they’ll eat eagerly!

[DogFoodie]

I’m not at all a fan of Evanger’s at all. They’ve had lots of major quality control issues.

I see no problem with your feeding your adult dog puppy food, just be aware that it’s typically higher in calories. Puppy foods are AAFCO growth foods, which are same thing as ALS foods. My adult Cavalier is about the same size as your Coton and she occassionally gets puppy foods in her rotation. She eats about 350 calories per day from various sources; ie: kibble, canned, fresh fruits & veggies, lean meats.

It’s possible your pup is being overfed, which is probably the leading cause of loose stool. They miggt be reluctant to eat because they’re not really hungry.

I would be really careful about home cooked unless it’s properly balanced. If you’re just feeding fresh or whole foods as toppers, just be sure it’s not more than 20% of her daily calories. A homemade, properly balanced, diet is the best thing you could feed them, but it’s tricky. Raw green tripe works wonders when you’re trying to entice a picky eater at mealtime.

[anonymously]

Why are you feeding him puppy kibble at 2 years old? It sounds like you may be overfeeding him. What breed of dog is he?
Is he getting enough exercise? A 1 hour walk a day?
How many bowel movements a day is he having? More than 2 per day could be an indication that he is consuming more food than he needs.

Also, Orijen is a wonderful food, however it is higher in calories than Nutrisca which works for my small breed. If the dog is not active……maybe you should consider a less rich food.

I don’t use freeze dried foods or fattening treats so I can’t offer an opinion. Just use a little of the kibble or a bite of lean cooked chicken breast or something if I offer a treat.

[pitlove]

Hi Rikki and welcome-

I can appreciate your desire for science based medicine. To touch on a the points you hit on, no protein is not a factor in terms of correct growth for large and giant breeds. However, Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN states on her website petdiets.com, that growing puppies do not require a food with more than 25% protein.

Absolutely, by no means, should you feed your mastiff an adult maintenance diet. This is a tired old myth still thought to be true because it “worked” 30 years ago. Companies are now producing large breed puppy diets designed specificially for slow growth.

The safe upper limit for your calcium and phos ratio is 1.5:1. However, you also need to pay attention to the calcium to calorie ratio as well to keep the pup lean during growth. Overfeeding is a huge factor in devlopmental orthopedic disorders.

As for the choice of food….the two companies that have done the most research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition are Hill’s and Purina. Selecting a large breed puppy diet from either of those companies would be fine. I do understand that some are opposed to using a food from either of those two companies. Dr. Tim’s Kinesis which you mentioned earlier, is safe for a growing giant breed, is formulated by a vet and a nutritionist and has been feed trialed. All qualities that are excellent to have in a food. Not to mention it comes in a 44lb bag on chewy.com. This would probably be my first choice for a budget friendly, good large breed puppy food, not from Hill’s or Purina.

Here is a good article to read that is posted on DFA here:

/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

and this is another from the persepctive of a veterinary nutritionist, that outlines DOD’s and large breed puppy nutrition fairly well:

https://msu.edu/~silvar/hips.htm

[Rikki W]

Eeeeeekkk!! Information overload!! I am so confused as to what I should be doing. We just got an English Mastiff puppy. He is 7 weeks old and I have no idea what to feed him. Right now we have him on the food the breeder was using. It is a super cheap supermarket brand that I am desperate to get him off of, but I cant seem to find any steadfast solid scientific backed information. I have been trying to research for over 3 days.

Some sites say protein needs to be LESS than 28%, some say that it doesn’t matter. I notice that the editors choice picks for puppy food have some listed with protein as high as 40%….. sooooo is higher protein really okay then??

It seems that the biggest consistent concern with Mastiff puppies and other giant breeds is their calcium intake. Calcium should be less than 1.5% with a 1:1 ratio to phosphorus. Is this accurate??

A different breeder than the one we actually got the puppy from suggested we just go straight to an adult food however that kicks the protein down and the calcium up.

I need science and studies to help me out here. I work in the medical field and am used to using evidence based medicine. I feel my dogs/furry kids deserve the same standards.

I also have two labs at home. One is 11 years old with the perfect current weight and health. The other lab is 2 years old and he could stand to lose a few pounds. I would love to find a food to just use for ALL three while keeping them all healthy. There is an editors choice for Dr. Tim’s life stages but man I am going to go through food quick with my three beasts and its expensive stuff. I will buy it though if I need to.

Can I just get some thoughts??

Thanks in advance 🙂

And now that I have at least gotten a post in, I will go read back through this thread of 1900+ posts for additional information 🙂

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Rikki W.

[Renee K]

My sister did considerable research on what to feed her Boxer, she likes Solid Gold Leaping Waters Salmon. So she recommended that I feed my 12 week old Golden Retriever puppy Solid Gold Wolf Cub. I wrote in with some questions and they responded (see below.) I am wondering why Solid Gold is not recommended on your site, is it an oversight or on purpose? By the way I came up with the questions from your wonderful site, thank you. When I asked about AAFCO it seems like they don’t have their approval?…(see below.) Also, is there one puppy food on your editor list that would be specifically better than the others for a Golden Retriever 13 week old puppy? I am still having trouble narrowing it down. Orijen puppy large seemed perfect but too costly.

Thanks for reaching out to us, and congratulations on your new addition! Wolf Cub is 1.3% calcium and 1 % phosphorus. Hundchen Flocken is 1.8% calcium and 1.14% phosphorus. We have searched the world for the most reputable sources for our ingredients. We do not use any ingredients from China. None of our products contain artificial preservatives, corn, wheat, or soy, artificial colors or flavors, or meat by-product meal.

AAFCO does not actually approve foods. It’s a body made up mostly of State Department of Agriculture officials that recommend guidelines for animal food labeling as well as nutritional requirements based upon FDA-CVM requirements.

The only statement you will find on a bag of food referencing AAFCO is the nutritional statement that most states require to be on a pet food label. This statement is similar to “X dog food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for maintenance of adult dogs”.

All Solid Gold foods have a nutritional guarantee statement like the one above.

I would recommend Wolf Cub for a Golden puppy, as it is specially formulated with a reduced level of calcium, phosphorus, and calories to promote a healthy growth rate.

Let me know if you have any further questions!

Customer Service

P 800.364.4863

[Jennifer H]

Thanks. Keeping any dog/puppy at a healthy weight is important but for large/giant breed puppies I can’t stress enough how dramatically proper weight can impact their entire life. As for my puppies, yep I do feed my puppies an all natural RAW diet. I have tested and formulated my mix to ensure it is not only balanced but also to ensure it has the right Calcium and Phosphorus levels for a giant breed puppy. I will admit, the first time I gave a litter of puppies a raw chicken back at about 5 weeks of age I was scared to death. I was simply amazed at how well they took to it. I am now tracking the health and development of the puppies I have kept and continue to feed raw as well as the health and development of the puppies that have gone to new homes and are eating different foods. It is a lot of work, but it is worth it to me. I looked at the commercial RAW diets and kibbles available and just didn’t find any that I felt truly addressed the needs of the large and giant breed dogs, so….. I just took the plunge

[CircaRigel]

It’s been a while, and I thought I’d provide an update on Galen, now 19 months old, technically an adolescent for a giant breed (Shiloh Shepherd), but no longer a puppy. However, I did go through a number of adjustments to his diet as he grew up, and thought I’d discuss them. I’ll first discuss kibbles, since that is generally the area where improper calcium and phosphorus content causes problems. Brands discussed include Eukanuba, Holistic Select (and other WellPet brands), Canidae, Taste of the Wild, Fromms, Tripett, and my absolute favorite and the most impressive, nutritionally… Darwin’s Natural Selections. I will also briefly touch on treats. Every choice I’ve made for Galen has come about via extensive research, wanting only the very best for Galen’s growth and health, for he is training as my service dog. My first responsibility is to him, even before looking after myself, for it is his responsibility to always be looking after me. Besides… I consider him family on equal par to my most beloved family members. I have linked the Dog Food Advisor pages for Galen’s finalized diet at the bottom of this post.

Galen’s breeder weaned her litter on Eukanuba Large Breed Puppy diet. After his adoption, I transitioned him to Fromm’s, which is what his breeder now weans her puppies on, but his stools were often quite soft. There was a brief period when I tried Holistic Select Large breed puppy, but rapidly transitioned away from it when Galen became ill. As it happens, ALL kibble foods made by WellPet (Wellness, Holistic Select, Old Mother Hubbard, Eagle Pack) contain green tea extract. While the very small amounts are probably not harmful to most dogs, particularly since it’s being taken with food, I found a number of studies that were halted because of dogs dying after being given green tea extract on an empty stomach. There is no way I can know for certain, but I suspect Galen is somehow particularly susceptible to toxic effects from it, even in small doses. So I began researching foods, and I liked the nutrition profile for some of the Canidae varieties, and while they were not specifically puppy or large breed diets, I contacted Canidae to make sure I chose a variety with the proper calcium and phosphorus ratios for proper bone growth (Canidae has recently been shifting their manufacturing away from Diamond pet foods, with a new processing plant in California). He did well on this, but didn’t like it much. Since he’s rather thin (but not so much as to be unhealthy, according to his vets at Alameda East, the same hospital where Animal Planet’s “Emergency Vets” was filmed, as it’s closest to where I live), I decided to change things up again when he was about a year old. Since he now was at an age where his calcium metabolism was properly established (generally puppies older than 8 months old can properly metabolize calcium, without the need to limit it so much), it broadened the choices of available foods for him. So, I made a list of grain free foods on Dog Food Advisor with 4+ ratings, focusing especially on 5 star rated foods, and ordered a bunch of sample packs for him to try from K9Cuisine. Of all of the foods he tried, he preferred the 5 star rated varieties of Taste of the Wild best. While I’m not fond of the record of Diamond pet foods, I trust the ratings of Dog Food Advisor (except the high ratings of kibbles by WellPet brands, for the previously mentioned Green Tea toxicity risk). Anyway, to keep things interesting for his palate, I now transition between the three 5 star rated varieties of TOTW for dry food.

Canned foods: From very early on, I had Galen eating Tripett green beef tripe as his wet food. I chose this because green tripe contains the nutrients of what the cow ate as well as the nutritional value and digestive enzymes that are naturally inherent to tripe. I have tried other varieties of canned foods, but Galen usually turns his nose up at them after a few days, when the novelty wears off. There has been a single exception, though, which I also supplement his diet with. That is Darwin’s Natural Selections raw foods. Back when I was letting Galen choose from among the samples I got for him, I also got the $15 introductory sample of the Darwin’s food (10 lbs variety pack), which included free shipping on dry ice. Their foods are raw, made from free-range, organic animal sources and organic vegetables. They come in easy to open plastic packets. Dog Food Advisor not only rates it 5 stars, but enthusiastically recommends the foods. They have never had a recall. I was quite surprised to find that the food was packaged and frozen just a few days before it shipped to me. Now, Once you have had the trial and go to their subscription plan, the cost is far higher, plus shipping on dry ice. It’s too high for me to feed to Galen exclusively or even as half his diet, so I subscribe to it as a supplement to his regular diet, feeding him 2 lbs a week. I get him all varieties, which include chicken, turkey, duck, beef, and bison. Of all of the foods I’ve ever fed a dog, This has been by far of the highest quality I’ve encountered.

Galen is incredibly picky even with treats, generally preferring single-ingredient, meat based treats. These have included Simply Lamb (freeze dried lamb), PureBites freeze dried chicken breast, PureBites freeze dried duck liver, and Primal freeze dried Nuggets (lamb), although the nuggets I use more as an occasional supplement rather than a treat. Galen turns his nose up at most other treats, even jerky treats. That’s fine by me. I rather like seeing only one ingredient listed, which leaves me zero doubts of there being anything in it that is unnecessary to his health (i.e. preservatives).

On a final note, around holidays I like to make a turkey stock from the leftovers and carcass (bones removed, of course, after cooking so that nutrients specific to the bones leach into the stock, like the marrow). That turkey stock is for Galen, as a special treat supplementing his food.

So… Galen’s final adult diet:
Taste of the Wild (wetlands, High Prairie, and Canyon varieties)
Tripett Green Beef Tripe
Darwin’s Natural Selections raw (beef, bison, chicken, turkey, and duck)

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by CircaRigel.

[gmcbogger38]

*If this was already answered in this thread please let me know.

I have a question regarding grains. I have read articles written by some veterinarians who say if you feed kibble only feed grain free. I have also read articles written by other veterinarians who say you should never feed a large or giant breed puppy strictly grain free because it affects growth. All 3 of my dogs are older and my Saint Bernard didn’t come into my life until she was about 2 years old, so I didn’t deal with this issue much. They eat mostly grain free, but do well on some grain inclusive formulas (I like to rotate).

I may be getting an 8 week old Saint Bernard puppy in a few weeks (currently being weaned onto Earthborn Coastal Catch). He is also smaller than the other puppies and I want to make sure he receives optimal nutrition.

Has anybody with giant breed puppies noticed any pros or cons feeding either exclusively grain free or grain inclusive foods for growing giant puppies?

[Triet S]

Hi Pituv,
I am very appreciate your help. I have taken her to the vet aldready. She said I fed her too much. She want me to feed her 3 times a day, all is dry dog food, follow the direction on the label of the TOTW and nothing else. But, I am very confuse because my puppy dont like to eat a lot of dry food. So, I have to change to feed raw food in morning and afternoon (mixing meat,liver,organic,vegetable,….about 150gram each time). Evening is 1cup of TOTW. After a month, she still has a curve back.
Could you tell me what should I do now ? Is my raw food diet good ?
Thanks !