“It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion”.
Holistic, homeopathic……what does that mean? Funny how these homeopathic vets tend to charge more for a consult than traditional vets do.
I trust my traditional vet. I communicate my concerns regarding treatment options if I have concerns and often we are able to come up with a plan we are both comfortable with. I don’t consider Dr Google research. If you have a medical background you may be able to weed through some of the inaccurate information, but most people can’t.
I have found the SkeptVet site to be extremely helpful. Just my opinion.
PS: Nothing is being sold at the above mentioned site, no supplements, no books, no t-shirts, no membership fees.
Just science-based veterinary medicine.
Thank you so much for the info…love the ideas!
Yeah we feed her a certain amount of ounces to make up for the dry and add certain supplements and fatty acids. She just wants her to get more protein rather than sugar bc our dog doesn’t do well with the dry–she gets bad yeast rashes.
CC, thank you for the kind words.
The dog in the avatar is actually the uncle of the dog I was talking about earlier. Sadly I lost him to HSA of the aorta. That was one of the worst nights of my life. I guess that’s part of the reason I have become so hypersensitive and obsessed with Chevelle’s health. She’s special in her own way and the living connection I still have here.
It pains me when anyone’s pet isn’t well. I understand all too well the fright, uncertainty and helplessness. Any one of us would trade places with them in a second.
I am not crazy about the ingredients of the food she is on now, but for some reason it agrees with her. I don’t know if it’s broken down more or what. It’d be nice to know why and if I can find another that yields the same results with better quality ingredients.
When I contacted Science Diet about the ingredients and asked why they don’t use chelated minerals and source some supplements from China I got a response that had a defensive tone with the excuse that China is largest supplier of a lot of supplements and it’s cost effective.
I’m considering going back to Wysong. She seemed to also do well on that for a good long time. They have always been really polite, helpful and open.
I hope soon we won’t need to have these discussions and our animals can finally have foods that truly maintain and improve their health.
Hey Cannoli,
Homes are filled with a myriad of items that can be considered choking hazards for dogs (and children). People starting raw feeding should monitor their dogs to make sure they get the hang of chewing bone (which is about as natural an instinct as canines could have). Feeding larger sized pieces of bone-in parts (like chicken quarters) that can’t be gulped is always smart, as is supervising a dog new to raw feeding.
But dogs are hard wired to chew. The risks of choking on appropriately sized chicken bones are very low and diminish to near zero as dogs get accustomed to it. Intestinal blockages from items like chicken bones are exceedingly rare. I’d worry a lot more about socks.
The calcium (and its bioavailability) from bone is not in question. Concerns about absorption are misplaced. Getting calcium from bone is what canines were shaped by evolution to do. It is superior to artificial supplementation.
The PMR style of feeding with 10% bone keeps the Calcium Phosphorus ratios at the perfect 1.2:1 levels recommended by the leading authorities as optimal. It is spreading a false fear that rotational feedings with calcium supplements are necessary to maintain mineral balances:it simply isn’t so.
The act of chewing is good for dogs. It is relaxing for them. It builds good dental health (encouraging strong gums and clean teeth) and builds strong neck and jaw muscles, in a fashion that feeding calcium powder does not.
If an owner wishes to brush teeth on top of raw feeding, great! I just know how many conventionally fed dogs I know and they nearly all have tartar-stained yellowing (if not rotten teeth) in marked contrast to raw fed dogs whose teeth stay nice and white (with fresh breath).
When we get phobic or fearful about very natural ways of being it has a cost. This is true both with dogs and with children. One can cut off “play” because someone might get hurt, but that comes at a cost. The risks of feeding soft edible bones to dogs is very (very) low, Cutting them out of the diet due to inflated assessments of the risks has a cost.
The advantages to feeding soft edible bone vastly outweigh the risks. Feeding powdered calcium is sub-optimal.
Bill
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
Spy Car.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Spy Car.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Spy Car.
In regards to your second concern:
#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?
You don’t need to just do bones for calcium..You can use natural supplements like Natural seaweed calcium found on Amazon, or use a bone calcium supplement also found on Amazon (just make sure it is Vitamin D free if you plan to feed organs), or you can use egg shells..
I have found that a lot of the management & treatment of my girl’s idiopathic IBD is trial & error unfortunately.
For her I have found that she does best on:
*foods that have a SIGNIFICANT amount of meat based protein. Not just a moderate amount. No extra fiber.
*minimal kibble and it’s soaked. I add water to all her food anyway. Even wet.
*1 protein at a time (very slowly switch)
*Pepcid
*exercise. Helps gut with motility.
She did well for 7 months then had a set back. Right now she’s back to i/d cans and boiled chicken. The vet suggested Royal Canin Ultamino, but that’s way beyond my budget.
Per the vet’s suggestion she is on Fortiflora probiotics daily.
Luckily none of the vets who have treated her have put her on a steroid.
Her recent relapse may have been a result of too much fiber and/or eating a kibble that had a moderate amount of meat for its main protein source. It could also have because I was trying different proteins and it was too much change.
The problem with IBD is that it’s a broad diagnosis with many causes. There is no one size fits most treatment.
If possible maybe you should find another vet who can better direct your management. Sounds like your vet isn’t very knowledgeable about this particular condition or nutrition in general.
Be careful with supplements especially fat soluble vitamins. You can over do it. Many vitamins have accompanying minerals. Too much of a vitamin and not enough of the mineral can cause a new set of problems.
My vets have mention endoscopy only as a second to last resort. The absolute last diagnostic would be biopsy. They will only do either of those things if the condition becomes severe.
It’s a very frustrating diagnosis, but it can be managed. The difficulty is finding what works for that particular pet. While finding what works can cause a flare up. Thankfully pets are forgiving.
Kristen R,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post your comment. It means the world to me to know that all my struggles with Duffy might be helping other dog parents.
You are so right, there is very limited and conflicting information available to us.
I have had multiple requests to write a book, and I really need to get busy. It wouldn’t be only about Duffy, though. My experiences out here on our little Kentucky farm have taught me a lot.
Stick to your guns with Layla. If nothing else, you know that you are not making decisions based on what company is actively marketing you as a client. Just say no. I am 100% certain that you are right on this subject!!
Don’t be afraid to try the Chi Institute supplements if you have a holistic vet in your area. I found them to be very effective.
I know how hard this is. It’s the worst. Not all protocols work for every dog so don’t feel trapped by what “they” say. Duffy was the exception to every single rule. Opinions on how much insulin to give him varied from 20 units a day to 0 units a day. I was supposed to make sense of all the conflicting data and various theories.
All you can do is educate yourself and go with your own gut feeling. Not easy!!!
Good luck!!
(thanks again)
Kellye
Did your vet suggest any type of gentle exercise such as aquatic therapy? Otherwise known as swimming in a heated pool, one minute of swimming is equivalent to 4 minutes of running, easy on the joints and might lift her mood a little.
If that’s not an option, see if your vet can prescribe pain meds that come in a liquid form. It might be easier to dispense with a small syringe.
“Supplements are not medication, they are not FDA approved. They are food supplements, not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure”
Per the search engine here: /forums/search/supplements/
My 14 year old Old English Sheepdog is pretty much at the end phase of her life and we are all heartbroken over it. She has been fairly sick over the last few weeks with a lack of appetite and her hind legs giving out. Our vet has said that she has nerve degeneration in her spine that is causing her back legs to gradually slide out from under her. With a small dog this is a bit easier to handle with carrying them and getting them around but with a 65 pound dog it’s not that easy. I wondered if there was any supplement that people have given their dogs for aiding the nerves in regenerating or getting better? I read that the mushroom Lion’s Mane is great for humans but haven’t heard how much a dog could tolerate. I would love to keep my dog going cause she’s so vibrant despite her age and these new hindrances. We love her so much and this has been a rough couple weeks with thinking the end is near. Is it a waste or stupid to try new supplements at this point? I brought her in to the vet today thinking it was the end for her after a long night of heavy panting and only eating canned food that she KNOWS has no pills in. She has suddenly become a detective with finding her meds hidden in wrapped treats and spits them out and it’s just crazy! But, he said that although she is old and not feeling well he thinks she looks good and can go a bit longer and he didn’t recommend euthanasia which was a relief. I don’t want to prolong her pain or make her stick around just to avoid that decision.
Any recommendations for senior dog supplements for the nervous system would be great. Also, she is allergic to brewers yeast so I have to avoid that ingredient. Thanks!
Why does the dog need supplements?
I would take the dog to a vet, has he had a senior workup? Labs, exam etc. If not, that is where I would start. Get him diagnosed and then evaluate the treatment options presented.
Supplements are not medication.
My elderly chihuahua is a picky eater, won’t take pills, and hates the taste of fish. That pretty much eliminates about 99% of all dog dietary supplements. It’s very frustrating. That said, Dinovite he *will* eat! Tiny amounts sprinkled on his food. So far so good. But after just 2 days, he developed diarrhea. I think the probiotics were a little much for him. So I backed it off, will wait a week, and try again at a lower (much lower) dose.
If someone knows a better supplement for a tiny dog (4 pounds) with eating issues, let me know! I’m particularly eager to get him supplemented with B vitamins. The only liquid supplement I’ve found for the three B’s I’m looking for (B12, B6, Folic Acid) was human and had xylitol in it. NO GO!
So … if anyone has suggestions please let me know.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
Helen C.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Helen C.
Hi Justin-
I agree with Anon. I wouldn’t add any supplements to the kibble unless your dog develops a condition that warrants them. I do think adding fresh or canned foods along with some water is a great idea. Just remember to feed less kibble to make up for the added calories.
I feed my dogs mostly Whole Earth Farms and Nutrisource kibble and add either canned food, tripe, egg, sardines or commercial raw to it. Good luck to you!
Nothing is being sold at the below sites, no supplements, no books, no t-shirts, no member fees, nothing. Hope this helps.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=probiotics
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
Science -based veterinary medicine.
I realized I should have posted this as a new topic, not buried at the end of another topic!
So, sorry if it’s a repeat for some:
Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas.
I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?
I know many people recommend a more “primal” style diet, but I’m on a tight budget these days and the grain component will Really help stretch my dollar!
Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas. I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?
Seizures are a neurological disorder. Food won’t help. Supplements won’t help. Medication prescribed by veterinarian that has examined and diagnosed the dog helps and may prevent the brain damage and suffering caused by untreated seizures.
Check this blog for science-based veterinary medicine http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
Several negative reports per the search engine here /forums/topic/dinovite/
I hope your vet warned you about supplements, most do nothing and some can cause harm.
If your dog has a skin condition I would go to a board-certified veterinary dermatologist, get her diagnosed and then you can evaluate the treatment options presented.
/forums/search/allergies/
I had two Irish Setters with IBD…they were brothers. It showed up at about 5 or 6 months of age. Bloody, mucus filled poops. I went through several vets because I did not want to use steroids. One boy was 58 pounds and the other was 52 pounds at the onset. After I finally put them on a homemade raw diet (the commercial raw diets did not work for them…I think because of the organ meats in them) and supplements, their poops normalized and they went to 82 and 75 pounds. They have recently passed away…one had a fibrosis in his lungs that I think was caused by the IBD. They had good years once I got the IBD under control. I hope you are able to do that with diet. The raw diet and supplements are what saved them. I forgot to add….I also used the homeopathic remedies Nux Vomica and Arsenicum Album.
Best of luck
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
mary s.
BalanceIt was a life saver for my dog with IBD, and concurring pancreatitis! Everything in the supplement is hyperallergenic, which you can’t count on when you do the supplements yourself. LID, and Veterinary diets didn’t work for more than a few months without another flare. There was some type of preservatives in the other foods that my Internist though was setting off some of the IBD, It’s a single protein, single carb diet mix, but you can add veggies and fruits later. Easy to make, and fairly cheap even when we used fish. The Academy of Board Certified Vet Nutritionists has a list of nutritionists you can contact, and many use this supplement in their formulated diets.
Hi Courtney,
In regards to your questions:
I would get full blood panels on each dog prior to starting your new diet so that you have a baseline to compare back to. I’ve seen it recommended to repeat blood panels every 6 months for dogs on homemade diets.
Some feel comfortable feeding bones.. I do not… I do not think the risk is worth the benefit. If using raw bone as your calcium source I feel finely ground is much safer. Disclosure: I do not feed a raw diet. If I did I’d either use a commercial HPP product or would buy large cuts and partially cook to kill off the bacteria both on the surface and those that have migrated deeper and grind myself. I remain unconvinced that dogs tolerate food borne pathogens significantly better then people do.
What supplements you use are up to your own personal philosophy. The primary concern is that you feed a balanced diet. Unfortunately, when the raw diets that people were feeding have been analyzed, most people who participated in the study did not accomplishing this.
I understand the appeal of a simple 80/10/10 mix but honestly I think it requires just as much attention to detail to balance a raw diet as it does to balance a cooked diet.
There are a few veterinary nutritionists that will balance a raw diet, most will not. Veterinary nutritionists legally can not consult directly with you unless they examine your dog which is why you found that they do not do phone/e mail consults. However they can consult indirectly via your veterinarian. Your vet orders the consult and works with the nutritionist on your behalf.
In regards to carbohydrates, people do not have a dietary requirement for carbohydrates and dogs do not either. Both species require carbohydrate from a metabolic standpoint, the body just has to generate what the diet doesn’t supply. But I don’t understand this statement “Carbohydrates carry significantly less calories by volume than protein does” Protein and carbs are considered to carry the same number of calories /gram, the volumes involved will depend on the water content.
I felt pretty overwhelmed; no lie. I feed grinds because my husband isn’t interested in. True prey model raw but we do feed turkey necks & beef rib bones. For us, grinds are easy: thre the scale, scoop in, add supplements & feed.
I buy from Hare today; Google for the website. There is a ton of info there and if you have questions, email them. Tracy is the owner and very helpful.
So, I’m considering switching my dogs to a raw diet and I’m inwhat I’d call a “researching” phase. Did anyone else feel totally overwhelmed when starting this process or is that just me? Lol
Short background: I have a 60 lb ACD mix that is roughly 7 (Burke) and a 12 lb Pomchi that is 5 (Miles). They’ve been on Orijen for the past couple of years and so far as stools go it seems to agree with them. However, Burke has started getting lick granulomas roughly 2x per year, Miles chronically seems “yeasty”, they’ve both had UTIs this year and we got fleas for the first time ever this summer which has been an utter nightmare. My vet of course gave antibiotics for the UTIs but seems to not be concerned about the other stuff. But to me it seems their immune systems aren’t up to snuff and diets the easiest way at it.
Currently I have 3 questions which might seem totally unrelated:
#1. Should I have a blood panel done prior to starting raw just to be certain there isn’t any reason why it’d be unhealthy to switch them to raw? Seeing as they’re both having issues I’m doubting that would be the case, but I’m a worrier 😉
#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?
#3. They already get coconut oil, yogurt or kefir, salmon oil and digestive enzymes. Could I continue these through the transition or should I hold off and give their stomachs time to adjust to raw food? Also, any supplements that they absolutely NEED to have or is this kind of just up to me?
Sorry this wasn’t as short as I’d hoped but thanks so much for any help. This forum has already been a big assistance and I can’t wait to learn more from you guys!
Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
PS: Start brushing the teeth once a day, see YouTube for how to videos, small breeds tend to have lousy teeth.
what would be the daily amount of vitamin c and cranberry supplements to give a 9lbs 8 month old puppy to lower urine ph and which dog food . She is on Merrick dry puppy kibbles now.
Hi Jenn-
Wow! $50 for 8 lbs! That is way expensive, especially for long term feeding. Have you looked into the Balance IT website? You can formulate homemade recipes and use their supplements to balance them. I used it when my dogs had bad tummies a few weeks ago. I wasn’t sure how much chicken and pumpkin to give them so I used their site for help. Since then, I’ve printed a few recipes using ground turkey and ground beef with rice and veggies that I plan on feeding once a week. We’ll see if I follow through. 😬
My dogs also have had several rounds of antibiotics when puppies and have been sensitive ever since.
“Thank you for posting so that I can see a neurologist and have knowledge”.
@ Susie:
I would start with a regular veterinarian, find one close to home, ask dog owners in your community who they go to/recommend.
She needs a senior workup, labs and exam to begin with.
What you describe sounds neurological, it is not recommended to give a dog with a neurological condition any vaccine, so just decline and remind them she is a senior and she is not medically stable if they bring it up.
Do not give over the counter meds or supplements to your pet unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined her. You have no idea what you are treating and could make the situation worse. Especially with medications that are intended for humans.
First thing is to get her diagnosed by a veterinarian and then evaluate the treatment options that are presented. I wouldn’t make any diet changes right now either.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=allergies
Science Based Veterinary Medicine
Hope this helps
PS: Nothing is being sold at that site, no supplements, no books, nothing.
If the canned Nature’s Logic states that it is balanced and complete, you would not need to use any supplements. It is fine on its own. If it states that it is supplemental only, then it is not fine to feed on its own, only should be fed as a topper or meal mixer.
You should probably contact the company to find out if you are not sure.
My vet advised Omega 3 supplements for my dogs’ cardiac health, and I’ve been using whole canned sardines (packed in water, no salt). One sardine is the right daily dose for a 20 lb dog, according to several websites I used for research (a 3.5 oz can has 2 sardines). The trick is finding no-salt sardines! My local groceries have about 10 brands of sardines, but only one of them is water packed with no added salt. I think mackerel or salmon would also work– but all of those sold near me have salt.
Hi Mandee, I cook Patches dinner meal separate then some nights when cooking for myself I add a extra potato & veggies for Patch as well & thenadd a tin of tuna or tin salmon in spring water drained & give 1/2 to Patch for dinner & put the other 1/2 in the fridge for the next night dinner…. I follow Rodney Habib on F/B he’s a Pet Nutrition Blogger. http://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib/?pnref=story
Rodney is always posting excellent post he just posted a raw balanced recipe made by Dr Karen Becker & Steve Brown that you can feed raw or cooked & buy all the ingredients at
supermarket… I sort of make the same recipe for Patch minus the ginger powder & hemp oil cause Patch has IBD 3-4 yrs ago if I feed what Patch is eating now he’d probably have diarrhea, its taken a few years for his stomach & bowel heal, I’m glad I didn’t listen to vets cause poor Patch would be stuck on a vet diet that made him smell itch & have acid reflux..
I buy lean beef mince then the next time I buy Pork mince I use to buy chicken but Patch has food sensitivities to chicken & gets red paws & itchy skin, I have a mini blender, I add some raw broccoli, parsley, kale, almond & flax meal about 1 teaspoon, turmeric powder about 1/2 a teaspoon & blend in the blender then add & mix thru the mince meat & add 1 whisked egg & mix thru then make 1 cup size rissoles & bake on a baking tray in oven… then I freeze them all when cooled & I also boil a cut up sweet potato, then freeze the boiled pieces as well then take out in the morning for dinner… I have to feed Patch 4 meals a day, at 7am he gets his 1 cup TOTW kibble then I give him a snack around 11am either some peeled apple or yogurt that’s sugar & fat free, then at lunch time, I either feed 1/2 cup kibble or scrambled egg on toast or today I tried Peanut Butter on toast for the first time, dogs love peanut butter..
but I have to watch his weight it just drops off so I have to make sure I keep his calories up he needs 1000-1100 calories a day… then at 5pm he gets his cooked rissole & sweet potato or 1 cup of his TOTW kibble, then at 8pm he has 1/3 a cup TOTW kibble…if he was a normal dog & didn’t have IBD I’d probably just feed 2-3 meals a day & I’d feed a raw diet….if he keeps doing well I was thinking of trying Raw Diet again its easier there’s no cooking….
There’s a few healthy cooks groups on F/B there’s, Monica Segal called-K9 Kitchen, Cooking For Dogs, Home Cooking For Dogs, Queeniechi Says Cook Homemade dog food & Canine Nutrition & Natural Health run by Cat Lane its more healthy supplements to feed when dog has illness..
.. but I love Rodney Habib the best & most of these people follow Rodney.. Good-Luck
Hey you guys!
Sorry to bump an old post but I FINALLY got the lab results back from the new vet. He is at a healthy weight for his size and the labs showed that he was very healthy but he was not meeting certain nutrition requirements. This new vet recommended rotating his protein and seeing if it balances out prior to adding supplements to his diet.
She is not a holistic vet (confirmed that the nearest one would be 4 hours from where I live) but needless to say, I had a much better experience with her than the last one. 😀
Hi Diana-
Yes, it I think it would be fine to make your dog a simple bland homemade diet for now to help heal his tummy. Such as boiled chicken or Turkey and sweet potato or pumpkin. However, I would not start adding a bunch of supplements to it all at once. You will not know what is helping or hindering your dog’s condition.
How I understand it is, the Giardia is causing the yucky stools. And trust me, I know exactly how yucky they can be. I have two big dogs and they both have had it at the same time on a couple of occasions. You need to concentrate on getting rid of the parasite at this time. Both Panacur and Drontal Plus are dewormers that have been fairly successful at ridding it. Also a probiotic with large amounts of enterococcus faecium have proved to be helpful also. I also am a believer in high fiber and garlic as a dewormer as well. But, you can clear that with your vet.
I’ve also read not to give them any diarrhea remedies per say as their bodies need to get rid of the parasites, not keep them trapped in their tummies.
And definitely follow the advice above on keeping everything clean. Pour very hot water and bleach on the spots where he goes potty. Giardia thrives in colder temps, not hot.
I hope skept vet answers your questions. I’ll be curious as to what he has to say.
Good luck!
Edit: BTW, have you had him re-tested yet?
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
crazy4cats.
Thank you to all who responded. I am aware of the purpose of supplements as opposed to medicine. Charlie does not have allergies, he has been checked by his vet regularly. He is a shedder…thick, rich full coat 12 months of the year. When he is bathed and given a good conditioner, it adds softness and luster to his coat but this is temporary Brushing is also his favorite pastime….I’m ready to create his clone with all the hair. I was hoping that some type of oil would help. I mentioned the financial aspect only because the same bottle/containers of oil(s) can double in price from one outlet to another. I hoped someone had a suggestion for a reasonable cost…I look for value for my dollar. I should not have mentioned our personal medical costs, the factor is practicality. Thank again for the responses.
Supplements are not medication, they are not FDA approved. They are food supplements, not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure….read the fine print.
Perhaps you will find some helpful information here:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/
PS: Consult with a local vet, tell him your financial concerns, he will advise you accordingly.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
anonymously.
Please help..Charlie is 40-50 lbs. a rescue pet. He is just over 3 yrs old. I know he can benefit from Omega3 or salmon oil or another type. Shedding like crazy ad dry skin. How much should he have and how often? Where can I purchase it and is human type safe for pets? The costs seem to go all over the map in pet stores and vit. stores. Cost is a factor due to major medicinal needs of spouse and I. I have no idea how to use oil supplements.
I appreciate any advice you can share.
Maybe you should ask the SkeptVet: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
Find a blog that relates to your situation and ask a question, he tends to answer, of course he can’t give specific advice as he has not examined your dog. However, he is not selling anything over there, no supplements or books, nothing.
He really cares about animals (imo). Oh, and he is a real veterinarian and does identify himself.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by anonymously.
I think you should consider consulting a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist if you feel your veterinarian has not been helpful, otherwise I would go by his recommendations.
Supplements are not medication, often they can cause harm. They tend to be expensive, the same money could be spent on getting professional treatment, a correct diagnosis and effective treatment.
PS: I would be very leery to take advice from anonymous strangers on the internet that may or may not have a medical background before listening to a veterinarian that has examined the dog and knows it’s history.
Hi!
The fiber content in his rx food is “Crude Fiber Max. 2.0%”. Also, any input on my response to Susan with regard to the homemade food + supplements I was thinking of giving him?
All of your support and input is so greatly appreciated!
Many thanks!
Hi Susan,
Thank you so much for your response. AS for the fat % in the vet food, it says “Crude Fat Min. 13.0%”.
This is my thinking… his gut is one big swamp due to the effects of parvo (I assume he must have something similar to SIBO as he shows many of the signs). Now, in this swamp he has nasty parasites (giardia) eating away at his already vulnerable gut. This being said, after much research this is what I was thinking of going, but am nervous as none of these remedies are FDA approved for dogs (i of course will check with his vet but i find that many times hearing other pet owner’s experience is much more beneficial as every dog is different).
PLAN OF ACTION:
-take him off the vet food. Cook him organic, no antibiotic/hormones, vegetarian fed (aka the best of the best) chicken + sweet potato + carrots (i heard carrots help with a dogs digestive system).
-now for the basic supplements any puppy or dog would need in his food, I would mix in: seaweed plant based calcium powder ( https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Essentials-JX0001-Seaweed-Calcium/dp/B0002AAO2M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472224097&sr=8-1&keywords=seaweed+calcium+pet ), and Multi-vitamin – this vitamin contains small bits of garlic and yucca which could help his intestinal problems ( https://www.amazon.com/Animal-Essentials-Herbal-Multi-Vitamin-Dogs/dp/B010F36XRK/ref=pd_sim_468_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7T75QBGRD5NZPA4GD5AJ )
-now for fighting off the giardia, building his immune system, and dealing with the aftermath of the parvo, I would add the following to his homemade food: goldenseal, echinacea, grapefruit seed extract, and slippery elm. (here is the article I read that suggested these items: http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/04/diarrhea-in-dogs-puppies-cats-kittens.html )
Once again, these are all things I will consult his vet with, but as i mentioned many times vets are VERY quick to prescribed whatever drug/prescription food they are “encouraged” to push just as doctors do with FDA approved drugs 🙂 I simply like to keep a balance is all.
Any input!? Thanks again for all your wonderful help!
Hello,
I recently rescued a puppy who is a survivor of parvo, he is the only one out of 5 of his siblings that survived. He is currently 5 months old and 9.7 lbs, yorkie poodle mix, and has been diagnosed with giardia about 3 weeks ago. They prescribed him a round of panacur, followed by a round of flagyl, both of which he completed. They also insisted on feeding him Hills I/D prescription diet (sensitive) Rice & Egg formula. None of this seems to be working. His stool is mushy and greasy looking (no chunks of mucus like it was originally), he has shown a huge increase in shedding, and seems to be very itchy and biting his paws on occasion. They now have prescribed him another round of flagyl (metronidazole, 100mg). I am at a loss, I typically take a more balanced approach between holistic and western medicine for both myself and my dog. But the vet seems adamant about staying on track with this food and medication. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am convinced the food has worsened the condition of his stool but i am also bias as I only give my dogs USA “human grade” premium foods, I also used to cook my previous dogs food (of course mixing it with a number of plant based supplements). Either way, I really am not sure what to do, I am so scared my little puppy is going to worsen, he has been through so much already, any input is greatly appreciated!
Also, we do have him on a probiotic called Synacore Digestive Support (Van Beek is the brand) + a chewable digestive enzyme (which also has a probiotic in it) the brand is NaturVet.
Lean Cuts canned dog food.. I buy it at Costco or superstore here in Canada.. .. ingredients.. fresh ground lean red beef roast and steak meat. fresh beef liver and kidney. carrots, vegetable gums.. calcium vitamin and mineral supplements and water sufficient for processing.. is whats on the label.. also prepared by tri v pet foods ltd.. in Chilliwack bc.. here locally.. where I live..
Our 19 week old Goldendoodle has giardia. The vet put him on a treatment of 5 days of Panacur followed by 5 more days of Panacur. It didn’t work. She then put him on metronidazole and again it didn’t work. There was no probiotics or supplements additionally recommended. We do not have any standing water and live in a sandy very dry area. We clean his poop up at least daily. He is never been to a dog park. The vet now wants to try probiotic “juvita” and Royal Canin Gastrointestinal Puppy Food for a month to see what happens. Any suggestions for anyother natural method would be greatly appreciated as we don’t want to expose him to any more antiobiotics and this puppy food is very expensive given he’s a growing fast 37 lb puppy.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by
Barry S.
I first heard of NuVet when I thought my 13 year old long-haired Chihuahua was blind. She fell into our swimming pool. Luckily, I was right there to pull her out. My first thought, she’s blind. She hates the water. The vet told me that she had cataracts. I researched “cataracts in dogs” on the internet. I found this website and read the raving reviews here and other reviews site like:
https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.nuvet.com
http://www.viewpoints.com/NuVet-Plus-Canine-Supplements-reviews
After that I bought the first bottle. A couple of weeks later, I took my dog to the specialist and he couldn’t find any cataracts. Now, my dog’s vision is better than ever, and her coat is shiny and fluffy. I just signed up for automatic refills.
Hello wendy w:
I agree with anonymously’s post. I wouldn’t feel comfortable if my dog had digestive upset for any length of time and would want to rule out any other health issues.
I make balanced homemade meals for my dog using Balance IT Carnivore Blend. I am not sure how many recipes you can make with their recipe generator, but it must be hundreds. Check out the site and take a look at the ingredients you can use to make meals along with their supplements. Many of the ingredients that you can choose from are found in most grocery stores.
They do offer other supplements, but I have only used Carnivore Blend. I am very happy with it and my dog loves his meals. The recipes I make are very simple, but you can generate recipes using a variety of ingredients.
The Vet nutritionists at Balance IT will also work with your Vet to make a recipe specifically for your dog if necessary. Good luck!
https://secure.balanceit.com/
https://secure.balanceit.com/recipegenerator_ver4/index.php?
I sure need some help please! A little history first. I have a 5lb chihuahua who is 11 years old who developed chronic constipation. I have taken her to the vet and she put her on Hill’s prescription diet (digestive care i/d canned) plus the vet prescribed probiotics. I have been doing some research and learning Hill’s has caused many pets to become sicker over time. This does not sit well with me. I would like to make her food so I know what is going into it and she will be happy and healthy.
I came across a website that gave me a simple recipe of baked chicken with skin and fat but bones removed, boiled egg, egg shell finely grounded and white rice. At this website they said this is not a well balanced diet by itself and supplements will be needed to make it so. So I bought their supplement to add to her food. Their directions say to make sure to fast you dog for 24 hours and to feed half of what she normally eats after the fast and to only give a 1/4 of the supplement. Basically, wean her into it for a few days so her digestive tract will get used to her new diet this made sense to me. After a few days gradually increase both amounts of food as well as the supplement….and I did!
Well, it all went south there after. I did fast my baby and only gave her a 4 tablespoons twice a day for 2 days and then added on the 3rd day a sprinkle of the supplement. What a nightmare there after. She had diarrhea everywhere. I called the vet she said to add a little plain pumpkin( not the pie mix) I did, and that seemed to help but my baby hates pumpkin so after a few times she refused to eat. So I figured she was doing better so I removed the pumpkin and the diarrhea came back. I also just tried just giving her the chicken recipe without the supplement to see if it was that causing the diarrhea but no she got it just from eating 4 tablespoons of the chicken, rice, hard boiled egg, and egg shells.
My chi is a very finicky eater and does not like most things. Does any one have any suggestions on what I can feed her so she doesn’t get diarrhea as well as constipation.
Sorry this was so long!!!!
Thank you in advance, I appreciate everyone’s help!!
Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/struvite/
Water, water, and more water.
Frequent bathroom breaks. Otherwise, consult a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.
The food can only do so much, most supplements are crap.
The PH strips are a joke, go to your vet every 3 months to check (urine sample).
Even with dietary changes, a change in the PH won’t show up for a month or two (this is what my vet told me).
Also, walk the dog more, get the extra weight off. Two meals a day, measured amounts, no snacks. No free feeding. If need be, 3 small meals per day.
PS: Nothing wrong with prescription dog food. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/
Hi, I have a boy with IBD he suffers from food sensitivities & suffers with the Helicobacter-Pylori so he gets bad acid reflux, he can’t take steroids (Prednisone) it gives him diarrhea & nausea….cooking for him is the best, I went thru a Animal Naturopath Jacqueline Rudan (Australian) to put Patch on a Raw diet but he kept regurgitating the raw back up into his mouth when he burped, kibble seems to stay down better, so now I cook her raw diet minus any bone & I use her supplements Digestavite plus powder & the Omega 3, 6 & 9 Oil…
A few people use the “Balance It’ we don’t have it in Australia….I give Metronidazole tablets to Patch when needed & he’s on an ant acid med Losec. I finally gave in after 3 years…I believe foods help heal & natural supplements…. L-Glutamine is suppose to be good, you make a bone broth & add to the meal… there’s a group on Face Book called “Canine Nutrition and Natural Health” Cat Lane can help with a balanced diet but I don’t know what she charges, I only paid $60 & the Naturopath rung me & spoke to me for 1 hr what to feed & what supplement to give here’s Jacqueline Rudans Raw Diets, she put Patch on the Maintenance Diet minus any bone & organ meats to start with & I had to add the Digestavite Plus Powder… http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/education.php
Cut the amount of food you are feeding in half, divide into 3 or 4 small meals a day, do not free feed. Nothing wrong with a small amount of cooked lean meat being added to the kibble instead of canned. Add water to the meals, most dogs do not drink enough water.
Walk at least 3 times a day, even if it is only around the block and in slow motion.
If you can afford aqua therapy/swimming/rehab look into that. Consider seeing a specialist (Veterinary Internal Medicine).
Most supplements are a scam, don’t waste your money. Plus they can cause harm.
Rimadyl is a very effective pain med for dogs, however it often causes side effects such as GI disturbances after they have been on it for a while. A lot of dogs can’t tolerate it. So if your dog develops loose stools…..
Below is an excerpt from a letter my vet sent out to all clients that have dogs on Tramadol. (5/2016):
“Tramadol is no longer recommended as a pain med for dogs. Current research and studies now indicate that Tramadol as a pain management medication has little if any therapeutic value.”
“As a result, …… Animal Medical Center will no longer be prescribing Tramadol for pain management. We recommend alternative therapies including gabapentin, acupuncture,and rehabilitation”. With that said if, if you feel that tramadol has been beneficial to your pet and wish to continue it, we will refill the medication.”
“We pride ourselves on keeping our clients aware and informed of any changes in the veterinary science which is why we are informing you of the most current information regarding Tramadol.”
Science-based Veterinary Medicine information at this site: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/
PS: These are just my opinions based on experience, I am not a veterinarian.
Hello Everyone,
My Natasha is almost 10 years old and weighs 125 pounds. She has arthritis and has a fatty tumor which I was told should shrink when she looses weight. I finally trained the husband not to give table food or cook chopped beef to mix in food! She is eating Wellness Cores Reduced Fat dog food. She hardly never eats all of what she is given (2 cups once a day) which I do top with half a can of one of the stews from Blue since the chopped beef is gone! Does anyone know if there are supplements to help the weight loss, but without her getting diarrhea or having to go potty all the time? She is limping quite a bit and is already on pain meds (Tramadol and Rimadyl).
Thank you, Robin
