[theBCnut]

Funny, but iodine deficiency is a leading cause of hypothyroidism. That’s the first thing they try when your thyroid is underfunctioning, increasing iodine. they(whoever they is) say there is an epidemic of hypothyroidism now, because all the salt conscious people are not using iodizes salt and not replacing the iodine elsewhere.

Fish and crustaceans that eat algae have higher iodine levels and since I’m hypothyroid, I’m supposed to eat them or a kelp supplement regularly.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have some favorites:
Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Ark Naturals Gentle Digest (pre/probiotics)
Fresh Digest or Optagest (same product, different name, prebiotics/enzymes)
Mercola Probiotics
Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics (pre/probiotics)
Hoistic Solutions (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Naturvet (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Nature’s Farmacy has some good supplements, too, that I like

[InkedMarie]

I’ll get the Medizym for fido then, thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I’ve gotten Medizym I’ve used the Fido version – I believe the only difference is the flavor of the coating on the tablets. I have a jar of the Fido right here and I’m looking on the Medizym website and the two products are identical.

My bottle of Medizym Fido lists: 100 mg. pancreatin, 60 mg. papain, 45 mg. Bromelain, 24 mg. trypsin, 1 mg chymotrypsin and 50 mg. rutosid – per tablet.

On their website they list the following for their human Medizym: 300 mg. pancreatin, 180 mg. papain, 135 mg. bromelain, 72 mg. trypsin, 3 mg. chymotrypsin and 150 mg. rutosid – per 3 tablets. If you divide all these values listed by three (to get the value per tablet), it’s identical to the Medizym Fido tablets.

On the jar for Medizym Fido the recommended dosages are 1 tablet for small dogs, 2 tablets for medium dogs and 3 tablets for large dogs. The recommended human dosage is 3 tablets.

[InkedMarie]

HMD:

Did you know there is a Medizym for dogs? Here is the info:

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving
Pancreatin* 26,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 100 mg
Papain* 970,000 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 60 mg
Bromelain* 108 GDU Ananas comosus 45 mg
Trypsin 60,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 24 mg
Chymotrypsin 7,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 1 mg
Rutosid* Sophora japonica 50 mg
*Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

Feeding Instructions
Size of Dog Weight of Dog Amount to Feed
Small 13-20 lbs. 1 Tablet Daily
Medium 21-50 lbs. 2 Tablets Daily
Large 51-100 lbs. 3 Tablets Daily

~~~~~According to the chart, my dogs would get two tablets per day, which would double the mg of the ingredients.

Here is the info on the Medizym human:

Adults take 3 Medizym tablets, two times daily, at least 1 hour before meals.
Other Ingredients

Oligo polysaccharides, modified plant cellulose, stearic acid, methacrylic acid copolymer, silica, triethyl citrate, coating blend (maltodextrin, HPMC, triglycerides), natural flavor.

Gluten free, dairy free, no soy allergens.

Contains no artificial colors or preservatives.
Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 3 Tablets
Servings Per Container: 266
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Calories 0
Total Carbohydrate <1.0 g <1%**
Sugar <1.0 g <1%**
Protein <1.0 g <1%**
Pancreatin*** 78,000 USP-units♦ protease (pancreas) Sus scrofa 300 mg *
Papain*** 2.9 million USP-units♦ Carica papaya 180 mg *
Bromelain***324 GDU Ananus comosus 135 mg *
Trypsin 180,000 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg *
Chymotrypsin 22,500 USP-units♦ (pancreas) Sus scrofa 3 mg *
Rutosid*** Sophora japonica 150 mg *
*Daily Value not established.
**Percent Daily Values are based on a 2,000 calorie diet.
***Acetone free extraction process.
♦USP-unit is the measurement of enzyme activity according to the test methods of the United States Pharmacopeia (USP).

According to that, the amounts are for THREE of the human ones. Am I reading this correctly that I'd have to use one more of the human ones to get what two of the fido ones would give? If I am correct, the fido ones are cheaper.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks again! Before I order, I’m going to check the dosing/prices for the others you mentioned. They may be “more expensive” to buy outright but if the dosage is less. I have to keep that in mind.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Definitely not a stupid question!

If it was me, just to make things simple, I’d give her 2 capsules daily for the first 2 weeks then go to 1 capsule 5 days a week. If you find the 1 capsule doesn’t seem to be helping her enough, you could go back up to 2 and keep her on 2.

[InkedMarie]

I feel like maybe I’m asking stupid questions, sorry if I am. I’m looking at the Swansons Mobility essentials. The human dose is 3 capsules twice a day.
Going by what you say above…..I should give her 1 1/2 capsules to start? Do I do it twice a day or do dogs only need it once daily?
Swansons is having a 15% off sale, today only

[Hound Dog Mom]

I would start out giving her 1/2 the recommended human dose for a couple weeks, then cut her back to 1/4 the recommended human dose. If you use a systematic enzyme you would still want to give enzymes with her meal. The enzymes given with the food would help with digestion the systematic enzyme would be given between meals and help with inflammation. In Europe systematic enzymes are about as common as OTC pain relievers are here in the US.

[InkedMarie]

Thank you, HDM, you’re so smart! Is there a dosage chart? She’s 22pounds. I don’t know how bad her arthritis is, we think she was crated ALOT. Walking her yesterday or 15 min did her in. She is almost ten so it on’t get much better. If I use the systemic enzyme, do I stop using the Mercola digestive enzyme?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[InkedMarie]

Patty, it’s hard to tell. I don;t think she ever got much exercise. I admit, when it’s snowy out, I don’t walk the dogs. I have joint issues and am terrified of falling. Today, it was nice out so we drove to a school that has sidewalks around it and walked the dogs. We walked for only 15 minutes or so and she barely made it back. I don’t know if it’s due to the hips or what.

[theBCnut]

I’ve seen the bulldog look on many dogs that are in pain in the rear end. They are shifting their weight forward to aleviate stress on those joints. Dogs with bad hips are only one place where I’ve seen that. It can also be knees, feet, or spine. Does she seem like she has less muscle in the back end compared to what she has in the shoulder area? Good luck in finding what works best for your olg gal!

[InkedMarie]

Resurrecting a sorta old thread. HoundDogMom, what can you advise me for Gemma? To recap, she ill be ten in June, is arthritic, holistic vet doesn’t feel any dysplasia. Her front legs look like bulldog legs, if you know what I mean. The vet sys she sees that with dogs that are kenneled a lot. Oh and she has no teeth. I’ve been using the liquid K9 liquid health but not cheap.
Any recommendations for a human liquid or powder I can try? She is not on nothing for pain but does seem lame after a walk. Thanks!

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I also was going to ask if you have had a fecal test for giardia. My pups had runny stools when I first got them. They also were eating their stools. Very gross! I kept thinking was caused by food and switched a few times and did not help. Their poop was a weird color, however. Often green or yellowish. Turns out they had giardia after a fecal test. They had to have 3 or 4 rounds of metronidazole and panacure to get rid of it. Tough to get rid of with two of them. After so many rounds of meds it took a while to get their stools back to normal again consistently. I used vetri-probiotics bowel defense for dogs. It contains a prebiotic, probiotics, enzymes and ingredients for diarrhea. My vet also recommended DGL plus to soothe their digestive tract. I found helpful supplements on Thorne supplements website, healthy pets site and Amazon’s site as well. Also many helpful tips on this site, such as adding pumpkin and healthier foods for them. I regret to say that I had never read an ingredient label with previous pets. Now I’m obsessed with it lol! One more site that has much info for digestive issues is dogaware.com. Good luck! I know it is frustrating and stressful.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi crazy4cats –

The subject of bloat and what factors increase or decrease the risk is very controversial. These are my tips on avoiding bloat based on what my breeders have told me and my personal experience owning large dogs:

1) While a dog can bloat on any type of food, a dog fed a moist diet (raw, canned, etc.) is much less likely to bloat. When feeding kibble you should soak the kibble in water until it expands – this will decrease the risk of bloat and also add moisture to the diet.

2) Don’t allow your dogs to exercise for an hour after eating.

3) Don’t allow your dogs to inhale their food – for some dogs this may mean investing in a portion pacer or a slow feed bowl.

4) Don’t let your dogs drink large volumes of water immediately following a meal.

5) Make sure the dog is getting probiotics and enzymes (unless you’re feeding raw these will likely have to be supplemented). Dr. Maniet, a holistic veterinarian, states “Probiotics and enzymes can help reduce gas, do I’d expect that they also will help reduce bloat.” (Whole Dog Journal)

I’ve had breeders tell me that large dogs should be fed on raised feeders to decrease their risk of bloating and I’ve read the opposite – that raised feeders increase the risk of bloating. I feed my dogs on raised feeders and haven’t had a problem. The raised feeder factor is one of the most controversial.

Some believe that if a food contains citric acid or a dry food with a fat source in the first four ingredients it will be more likely to cause bloat – I wouldn’t hold too much stock in this theory (jmo).

Stress plays a role as well, stressed/nervous dogs are more likely to bloat.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks HDM. My dogs don’t ever turn up their noses at anything in their food. Ever. The last dog that did was Tucker when I got a free bag of Natures Variety medallions.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

I’d say 1/4 C. would be fine. I generally give my guys 1/4 C. each on the days they have green tripe and 1/2 C. each on the days they don’t get tripe. It would be a great addition to kibble meals – you could use it to make a “cereal” and add moisture. Most dogs tolerate it very well as it’s very low in lactose.

[InkedMarie]

Hi ladies, thanks for the info! Patty answered the question, i think, that i was going to ask. Mine rarely get tripe because I forget about ordering it. I do have a certain amount of beef coming, with tripe, from Hare Today but they won’t be getting beef daily. I was going to ask what to do about the fact they won’t be getting beef daily but I think Patty answered it: 1/2 dose a couple times a week. Gemma will still get them as she is on Bravo Balance for part of breakfast and THK in the evening.
Regarding the kefir, HDM: whats the dosage? I have two 30 pounders and one 22 pounder

[theBCnut]

Back to the OP, I only feed tripe once a week as an entire meal and I have a dog with issues, so I still use probiotics 1/2 dose about twice a week. I do the digestive enzymes 1/2 dose with kibble for him. I’m not sure he really gets any benefit from them, but I’ve got them from when he was really having issues and I’m going to use them up. I got the 3 jar deal from Mercola and I’m still on my first jar, months later.

[DogFoodie]

My dad used to make yogurt. Something makes me think making yogurt is a heckuva lot easier than making kefir.

Lifeway kefir it is, HDM!

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Betsy –

I buy my kefir. My Hannaford carries Lifeway and Evolve brand – I get the Lifeway because it as 12 strains of probiotics (versus 11 in the Evolve) and more vitamin d. I eat it myself as well – it’s great in granola. I’ve never looked into making kefir but I’d imagine it’s similar to making yogurt, a lot of people make homemade yogurt.

[DogFoodie]

OK, in a nutshell, my question was about kefir. I’m interested in it for myself and my dogs and recommended it to a friend recently for her dog ~ kefir made with goat milk as her dog is allergic to cow’s milk, which she could pick up at a nearby health food store. It doesn’t sound like making kefir is easy though and I wondered if you made your own or bought it and if it’s difficult, etc.

[DogFoodie]

Hey… where’s the rest of my post? Weird.

[DogFoodie]

Pardon my hijack, Marie!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to hear you’re ordering from Hare Today! Their stuff is awesome, you’ll love it. I don’t think probiotics and enzymes are necessary for a raw diet, especially not if the dog is getting green tripe. I don’t supplement with enzymes or probiotics. My dogs get green tripe every other day and kefir daily. With that said it’s certainly not going to hurt anything to add probiotics and enzymes, it would just be an unnecessary expense imo.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi –

I know Nutro is having some issues right now – there are a lot of complaints about the food. There was an article featured on Truth About Pet Food in December about a woman who believes Nutro Natural Choice killed her dog – I think there might be an investigation going on. There are also over 1,000 complaints about Nutro on the Consumer Affairs website and many posters have been complaining on dfa. Have you tried supplementing with enzymes and probiotics yet? If not I would try a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and digestive enzymes. Both will should help with the loose stools and the enzymes may help with the stool eating as well. You may want to fast your dog for a day before switching to a new food – just to clear out his system – and for the first couple weeks on the new food add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin.

[theBCnut]

Hi Jan

It was the first homemade recipe I tried and the reason I went ahead and started feeding raw. It was easy enough to follow and really easy to tweak as I learned more. I rotate everything including supplements, so I still use DinOvite every few days. I’ve also been buying grinds from Hare Today that work really well with whichever supplement mix I want to add. DinOvite plus SuperOmega plus a grind is super simple.

[Mom2Cavs]

Patty….if I ever wanted to feed a homemade raw diet, I would try their “recipe”. It looks easy enough and I would add their supplement to it.

I also forgot to say that they are mail order only, unless you live close enough to pick it up.

[theBCnut]

I have used it as part of my dogs diet when he started showing multiple symptoms such as yeasty ears, nonstop scratching, mucousy stools, etc. I made their yeast starvation diet with a few tweaks and fed my dog that in the morning and Brothers Complete Allergy Formula in the evening. I was very pleased with my dogs progress. It took about 2 1/2 months for him to be completely better, but you wouldn’t know he had a problem now. I have never used DinOvite as a supplement to regular kibble.

[grover]

Anybody have any comments on this supplement? My Golden Retriever mix, 70lbs, 2 1/2 yrs plus has struggled with paw licking and ear infections. Its the dead of winter now, nothing is pollinating, I have a large capacity Hepa Filter running non stop inside, no carpeting, and I have fed him Taste of the Wild from the start and now Earthborn (Grain Free). Looking at the DinoVite web page I see grains as the usual culprits for allergic reactions followed by nutritional deficiencies which the DinoVite product claims to address.

[InkedMarie]

After exchanging a bunch of emails with Tracy and talking to Alexandra via FB, we decided to try getting some grinds from Hare Today. We ordered chicken, beef, turkey and duck. They all have ground meat, bone and organs and the beef has added tripe. Tracy from Hare today said I don’t need to continue to use probiotics and digestive enzymes: what do you all think of that? Do you use them if you feed raw?

[Hound Dog Mom]

abby13 –

All oil has the same amount of fat and all is high in fat – oil is pure fat. 1 tsp. of krill oil has the same amount of fat as 1 tsp. salmon oil. I’m not sure what the fat levels are in the foods you’re feeding but if you’re keeping fat levels low this could be a big reason why she has dry skin. Fat is necessary for healthy skin and coat (in addition to many other things). If she has dry skin I would keep her on a food with at least 15% fat. Supplementing with fish or krill oil would be a good idea too – I’m not sure how big she is, but I posted a dosage chart above. Coconut oil is another fat that is known to help improve skin and coat quality. Remember, dogs have no dietary requirement for carbohydrates and can thrive on protein and fat alone – dogs utilize fat for energy and can tolerate much higher fat levels than people. I’m not sure if you bathe her, but if she has dry skin I’d also watch the number of baths you give. If you bathe her too frequently that can dry the skin. When you do bathe her, make sure to use a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner. Daily brushing can also help to distribute the oils in the fur and help moisturize the skin.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sheltie’s Mom –

The calcium to phosphorus ratio of chicken feet is 1.06:1, whereas the calcium to phosphorus ratio of chicken necks is about 1.6:1. The calcium to phosphorus ratio of both chicken feet and necks are in balance, however the ratio in the feet is so low that it won’t provide enough calcium excess calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the breast and thigh meat. Chicken necks and backs are the best way to balance out the phosphorus of boneless meat in a chicken-based recipe. You could certainly feed the feet on some days but on those days I would recommend supplementing enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the boneless meat you’re using (about 800-1,000 mg. calcium per 1 lb. boneless muscle meat, 1,000 – 1,200 mg. per pound of boneless organ meat).

[DogFoodie]

I bought krill from Mercola for my dogs. It comes in a super convenient airless pump bottle. One pump per ten pounds of body weight. Clean, neat, easy, quality.

Unfortunately, I’ve discovered that the dog I bought it for seems to turn her nose up at most things fishy. The other dog who doesn’t really need it, loves it. Go figure. I have yet to find a kibble or canned food that is fish protein based that Dog A really likes. She will, however, devour a tinned sardine. She eats high quality kibble, canned toppers and the occasional meal of Darwin’s raw, but the black part of her coat (she’s a tri-color Cavalier) still isn’t that shiny in some places ~ in particular, on her rump. I use organic coconut oil, but not as regularly as I should to really see the benefit in her coat quality. I also add an occasional raw egg. I’m thinking my next supplement of choice will be Solid Gold Sea Meal.

Why are you wanting to supplement with oil? Is there something you’re hoping to correct?

[DogFoodie]

Thank you so much, Sandy! I was hoping you’d also chime in. : ) Those are all great recommendations.

I’m so glad my friend is willing to switch foods. I think what she’s feeding actually contains some of the allergens that are problematic for her dog. Thank you both, Jan and Sandy, so much for your help!

I also happened to read this, posted by Hound Dog Mom recently to someone else whose dog has yeast issues and thought it would be great advice for my friend as well:

“I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic – probiotics are “good” bacteria that will help keep the “bad” bacteria (like yeast) in check. I would also add a supplement with natural anti-fungal, anti-bacterial anti-parasitic and anti-viral properties. Some good options would be coconut oil (organic virgin), oil of oregano or fresh minced garlic (make sure you give an appropriate amount of garlic and don’t give for more than 3-4 days consecutively, take at least 2 days off after every 3-4 day cycle). If your dog has yeast on her paws (or any other area, such as the ears) they should be disinfected daily. Soak the paws in a solution of 1 gallon water, 1-4 cups of white vinegar and 1 cup of hydrogen peroxide. Clean the ears with 3 parts white vinegar to 1 part witch hazel. If the whole body is infected with yeast bathe the dog in a natural anti-fungal shampoo – I would look for a tea tree oil shampoo, avoid oatmeal shampoos as the oatmeal acts as food to the yeast. ”

I think those supplements are easy enough to add to her dog’s diet ~ easy enough that I think she’d actually do it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

If he’s gassy try supplementing with probiotics and digestive enzymes.

[Mom2Cavs]

Wow, veggienut, that sounds terrible! I don’t know if it’s the food, but I do know a couple of people with Yorkies and they both feed high protein foods to them and they do fine. Foods like Acana, Fromm grain free, etc. And I’ve been feeding Acana Duck for about 2 weeks now and my dogs are doing well on it. I’m also topping with either Primal FD or Stella & Chewy’s FD and adding probiotics (which I do to any food I feed). I do believe that some dogs may need certain percentages of things or certain supplements depending on their overall health issues but, I’m sorry, I don’t think certain breeds need foods made for “Yorkies”, “Poodles”, etc. For instance, I have Cavaliers and they’re known for heart problems so I sometimes supplement with things that benefit the heart, like coq10, hawthorn, taurine, l-carnitine, etc. I have an old mixed breed and she has bladder problems so I give her a urinary supplement. If certain breeds need to eat certain brands/foods made just for them, then where is the “Cavalier” food? I’m not trying to be rude, just my opinion. Also, you state your Yorkie needs carbs in his diet and Acana has none….it really does, because all kibble has to have some carb binder to hold it together. Some may have more than others, and of course there are different kinds of carbs to use. The fact is that not one food will work for all dogs, so I just think that Acana may not work for your Yorkie. Perhaps in the future, when his digestion settles down, you can find a different food to try for him that is better quality than RC.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, it does contain corn.

Royal Canin Yorkshire Terrier 28 Formula

Ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Brewers Rice, Brown Rice, Chicken Fat, Chicken, Corn Gluten Meal, Dried Egg Powder, Barley, Natural Chicken Flavor, Cellulose, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Anchovy Oil, Dried Brewers Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Soya Oil, Fructo-oligosaccharides, Salmon Meal, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Choline Chloride, Dried Brewers Yeast Extract (source of Mannan-oligosaccharides) , Taurine*, Vitamins [DL-Alpha Tocopherol (source of Vitamin E), Inositol, Niacin Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C*), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement], Magnesium Oxide, Borage Oil, Trace Minerals [Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate], Glucosamine Hydrochloride*, L-Carnitine*, DL-Methionine, Marigold Extract (Calendula officinalis L.), Tea (Green Tea Extract), Chondroitin Sulfate*, preserved with Natural Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Citric Acid and Rosemary Extract

Brewer’s Rice: Leftover debris from human-food production, no nutritional value.

Corn Gluten Meal: 85% of corn in the US is genetically modified, according to the NCAP corn gluten meal is “a by-product of processing corn to make corn starch and corn syrup.”; gluten is cheap and of low bioavailability and used to falsely boost the protein content of a food; corn is also highly susceptible to aflatoxin contamination.

Natural Chicken Flavor: Source of MSG

Dried Beet Pulp: 95% of sugar beets grown in the US are Monsanto’s genetically-modified variety.

Dried Brewer’s Yeast: Potential source of MSG.

Soya Oil: 93% of soy is genetically modified.

And look at that huge long list of synthetic vitamins and minerals at the end – they need to add all those because the main ingredients are of little to no nutritional value.

If you can afford this, you can afford much better for your dog. You’re paying a premium price for a mediocre food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

doggiedog –

No single food meets all of a living thing’s needs and whole food derived nutrients are far superior to synthetically added vitamins and minerals. I “supplement” my dogs’ food – but not with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They get super foods such as spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen; healthy fats such as fish oil, coconut oil, etc.; foods rich in enzymes and probiotics; healthy herbs like turmeric and garlic; etc. What I feed my dogs is so naturally rich in vitamins and minerals that I don’t need to add anything synthetic. I don’t trust a dog food company to add everything needed to keep my dogs’ immune systems in peak condition – because there is no dog food that does this. Chemically synthesized vitamins and minerals are more likely to be tainted, pose a greater risk for overdose and aren’t utilized as efficiently by the body – in whole foods, nutrients work synergistically with hundreds of other compounds and many of these compounds have different forms in nature and can only be found in whole foods. Synthetic supplements have been linked to increased risk of cancer and increases in lifestyle diseases in people – why wouldn’t it be the same for our pets? Many medical organizations advise against the consumption of synthetic vitamins and minerals for humans. This is why foods should be rotated so a dog isn’t overexposed to anything. Your statement that different breeds need different foods isn’t accurate – or at least shouldn’t be accurate if a dog is eating an appropriate food. “a bulldog, which is prone to digestion issue, excessive gas, and weight gain” – probiotics and enzymes address digestive issues and gas, if a dog were eating a fresh species-appropriate diet rich in natural enzymes and probiotics this wouldn’t be an issue; dogs that are overweight don’t need a special food, they need their portion size (calories) reduced, weight loss is based on calories in and calories out not fat content or caloric-density of a food. “Poodle, which is prone to cataracts, dementia, and has a fully curly coat” – again, if eating a high quality species-appropriate foods the chances of any of these “tendencies” causing an issue would be greatly reduced. High quality foods have balanced ratios of quality omega 3 and 6 fatty acids for the coat health and whole food antioxidants help with health issues such as cataracts and dementia. Low-grade foods like RC, SD, Purina, etc. have to add supplements because their base ingredients are so low quality and nutritionally devoid. Luckily for these companies there are tons of people out there like you and veggienut that actually believe synthetically supplemented corn puffs with a picture of your breed on your bag are the best thing to feed.

[BryanV21]

What if a dog DOESN’T need a supplement that’s already been added to a food? What then? You can’t take it out of the food, let alone be able to purchase said food cheaper. And speaking of money, RC is a rip-off. Why in the World would you want a food that’s mainly corn? Whether that be for a human or a dog. Corn is a filler, and a poor one at that, so it’s insane that a food whose main ingredient is that should cost that much.

[BryanV21]

Acana is a good dog food. Hell, it’s MUCH… MUCH… MUCH better than Royal Canin. In fact, I could literally name a couple dozen other brands I’d feed my dog, or recommend to others, before Royal Canin. So right off the bat there’s a problem.

With that said, even if somebody fed Acana or almost any other food but RC, their dog may need a supplement(s) of some kind. Take larger dogs that are prone to hip and joint issues… you may want to add a chondroiton/glucosamine supplement to their food. Or say you have a dog prone to UTIs… add a cranberry supplement to their food.

As for your last eye roll inducing paragraph… just like not all different breeds have the same dietary needs, neither do two dogs that ARE the same breed.

I really shouldn’t need to explain this to somebody with “doc” in their name, but alas…

[DoggieDoc22]

“It’s better to buy a good adult food and then add supplements to that. Most dry dog food makers add supplements to their food before cooking, and the food is cooked at such a high temperature that the supplements are all but gone.

Besides, wouldn’t you and/or your vet rather control the amount of supplements in a dog’s food, rather than having somebody else do it for you?”

Or you could feed your dog a complete and balanced diet so that there would be no need for supplementing. By supplementing the food that you give to your dog basically what you are saying is that the food you have chosen to feed them isnt providing all of the nutrients that they need so you are then going to go out and spend MORE money to buy a supplement, rather than just feeding them something that met all of their needs in the first place.

[BryanV21]

It’s better to buy a good adult food and then add supplements to that. Most dry dog food makers add supplements to their food before cooking, and the food is cooked at such a high temperature that the supplements are all but gone.

Besides, wouldn’t you and/or your vet rather control the amount of supplements in a dog’s food, rather than having somebody else do it for you?

[Mom2Cavs]

Hi, jnconner. I supplement with canned food or freeze dried w/water added for moisture and variety and taste. Lots of people feed just dry, but I recommend adding something to the kibble, at least every now and then, for moisture or freshness, taste and variety. You can do lots of different things. Some people add veggies, fresh meat, sardines, egg, canned food, yogurt, cottage cheese, etc. Also, Nature’s Variety is not sold at Petsmart, but is sold at Petco. Hope this helps.

[jnconner]

@suztzu @Mom2Cavs
All, thanks so much for the information. I did find the statement from the PetSmart associate hard to believe and I’m glad I was able to get some feedback here. I purchased the ‘Blue Buffalo Freedom Grain-Free Chicken Recipe for Puppies’ yesterday afternoon and the kibbles are very small. However, having read your post last night, I’m wondering if I should take the Blue Buffalo back and get the ‘Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy Formula’ since the crude protein content is 36%. You also mentioned supplementing with can to up the protein. Is there a reason you do both dry and can dog food outside of providing the additional protein? I’m wondering if this is something I should consider as well.
Does anyone know if the Natures Variety Instinct brand is sold at PetSmart I would like to stick with a 5 Star that I can purchase locally if possible.

[DieselJunki]

Thank you for that Hound Dog Mom.

Cate I agree sometimes to much of a good thing can be harmful. I know I wanted to add more Omega 3’s at one point thinking it would help Moose’s dandruff and coat but was advised against it as I was already feeding a food high in Omega 3’s and balanced. Glad I checked before I decided to go ahead and do it and instead was suggested Coconut oil which I now use. I am always careful by nature and usually before feeding him any new supplement I always check in here and do research.

[DieselJunki]

I would supplement with a hip and joint supplement anyways. Especially since you said she was or is having issues.

Here are a few companies that I’ve looked into and I’ve heard of others using.
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

And also a link to a thread I had started that has good information from Hound Dog Mom on joint supplements.
/forums/topic/mercola-joint-supplement-vs-others/

As far as a food similar to Acana I’m not sure on that.

If it was me I would just find a good dog food high in protein, low in fat (since you said she was overweight) and add the hip and joint supplement instead of trying to find a food you think might have the appropriate levels to support healthy joints along with low fat and high protein. But I am certainly no expert so perhaps others will chime in.

[tarancara]

Actually, like humans dogs CAN thrive on the right vegan diet. Many people say that humans MUST eat meat- which is very untrue. But the supplements used for dog health are different than human health. I knew a vegan family that raised German shepherds and their dogs were on a highly researched vegan diet and were GORGEOUS healthy dogs who all lived long lives. Unfortunately I am not in contact with these folks anymore.. Vegan diets can be done well or dangerously bad for both humans and animals alike. Most people who say it can’t be done havent seen a good example of it.