[FreeholdHound]

Oh I’ve become a Hare Today addict – have another order shipping Monday. I wouldn’t use the grinds w/ veggies at all. Would be interested in this for the tripe and maybe beef grind w/ organ/bone/tripe. Menu is very limited for me so would use to supplement HT & save on some shipping costs. He has quite a large network of co ops and gets good reviews. I am 5 blocks away from him so I don’t have to use co-op. I have a single dog and very limited freezer space so ordering/buying in bulk isn’t an option.

[pugmomsandy]

If you went back to kibble and still offered some raw for a couple meals that would still be better than no raw. As far a supplements go, kibbles are “complete and balanced” but I still give additional fish oil, super green foods, probiotics.

[gmcbogger38]

Do you think adding a supplement will be necessary since they will be getting kibble? Or will they get enough from the raw I would be feeding?

[DogFoodie]

OK HDM, gotcha.

I already have plenty of krill oil and sardines on hand so I can start that ASAP. That order that I mentioned is just the initial to get me started. I’ll probably vary the proteins with each order sticking primarily with red meats. In order for me to follow through with this it has to be very simple and have some structure… otherwise, it’ll never stick.

Is there a particular multivitamin supplement you’d suggest?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Unfortunately I had all my bookmarks wiped out but there was someone who posted a link to a study that was done of many top pet probiotic brands and it was found that many didn’t have the number of cfu’s that the package claimed or as many strains as was claimed. I’d be careful with pet products. I personally just give my dogs kefir every day and raw green tripe a few days a week rather than spending money on supplements.

[Shihtzumom20]

switched up the whole food supplement a bit, now its spirulina powder, turmeric powder and alfalfa leaf powder, I ordered all my supplements from swansons and really liked it! I hope they get it shipped ok! I should get it in a couple weeks and then can start feeding raw!

[Shihtzumom20]

Hello Everyone,
So I have decided to take the plunge and make homemade raw for Dawsons pm meal! He will still get ziwipeak in the morning, for a couple reasons one its convenient mornings tend to be pretty busy! And I like their quality of meats so I think it is important Dawson gets it. He is getting the lamb variety so I think I will mostly use chicken for his dinner, but I may switch it up for beef every now and again as a treat.
Here is what my menu looks like, HDM could you take time to check how balanced it is I would greatly appreciate it!
So every am Dawson gets ziwipeak air-dried lamb. 1 ounce
pm- (3 ounces totatl) 90%-95% lean ground chicken, 200mg calcium citrate, ¼ tsp Carlson Cod Liver Oil, ½ capsule vitamin E, ½ tsp of organic wheatgrass powder+ organic kelp powder+ organic turmeric powder (mixed together in equal parts), Raw multiple Glandular supplement
*NOTE* Every 4 days Dawson consumes 1 pound of meat. On the 5th day he will get an rmb, either chicken wing with no skin (want to keep the fat fairly minimal) or beef/pork rib equaling three ounces.
Every pm meal for supplements he will get his (minimal lol) whole food supplement, and the calcium citrate but NOT on rmb night. Only 2x per week he will get 1/2 capsule vit E, and twice every 4 days he will get 1/4 tsp Carlson cod Liver oil.
I wasnt sure if I should include some liver/organ in his meal since he gets the ziwipeak in the morning and it has organs, I was hoping the raw glandular supplement would take care of that? I was also unsure what I should get for the chicken, I dont want a lot of fat since Shih tzu’s are prone to obesity and we are heading into fall/winter lol! I decided to use the cod liver oil for his vitamin d for now till I get used to it, but then I may try to give more variety using keifer, raw eggs etc.
I also want to add canned trippett, and 1/4 tin of sardines in the four day period. I think by using both the cod liver oil and sardines he would meet his omega 3 requirements and not need krill oil. But if thats wrong I will get the krill oil too! I want to take it anyways so I will have it on hand. I cant access the canned tripett website today. My computer wont let me into it, could you tell me how much and when I should I add it in?
Well how did I do? Please let me know if anything is in excess, missing or unnecessary!

[InkedMarie]

Human supplements are much more regulated than animal ones.

[weezerweeks]

I was adding raw fruits and veggies when he was in dry but his PH was8.5 with crystals so I switched to canned and the vet told me not to add to this. His PH is still 8.5 but no crystals.should I try whole food supplements? I want his PH to get lower!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Synthetic supplements (vitamins/minerals) aren’t necessary when feeding a balanced commercial food however things like probiotics, enzymes, essential fatty acids and super foods are always beneficial. I would give coconut oil at the rate of up to 1/2 tsp. per 10 lbs. (you can give less as well). Nature’s Logic makes one of my favorite pre-made whole food supplements, it contains several supper foods (such as kelp and alfalfa) in addition to nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables and probiotics and enzymes. I actually make my own super food supplements, I find it’s cheaper this way. I buy the ingredients I want in large packages from Swanson Vitamins or Starwest Botanicals and combine them. I generally do something like equal parts kelp, spirulina, wheatgrass, alfalfa and bee pollen but I’ll sometimes substitute other ingredients for variety such as chlorella, barley grass, tart cherry, etc. If you use a pre-mixed whole food supplement designed for dogs there will be dosing instructions on the package. For my homemade supplement I usually do around 2 tsp. per dog (my dogs are 68 – 75 lbs.). There’s generally little concern with “overdosing” when feeding whole food supplements – especially if using a variety of ingredients in small doses.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[theBCnut]

Superfoods are things like kelp, alfalfa, berries. They have nutrients that are not required to be added back to dog food and in fact they are utilized on such a small scale that they aren’t sure how much of what is needed. They are also full of antioxidants.

[weezerweeks]

What is a dose of super foods?He has elevated lipase so I’m using the digestive enzyme from mercola that u suggested weeks ago. I also use Nordic natural fish oil everyday.His crystals are gone since I switched to canned an I even add extra water. Water is the key to sturvites.

[theBCnut]

Are you seeing any problems? I would add a dose of superfoods, and fresh fish oils.

[weezerweeks]

I have a 5 yr. old yorkie. He’s on canned merrick dog food. My vet says he doesn’t need anything added to his food but I disagree(wish there was a holistic vet near me)I give him fish oil,digestive enzyme because of high lipase,probiotic. I have been reading about coconut oil. Would he benefit from this? What supplements in ur opinion should I give him and how often. I know his food has some supplements but don’t know if they have enough. My vet says when u add to his food it changes the nutritional value. Advice please. U people know more than my vet about nutrition.

[theBCnut]

I started out using Mercola products and I really like them, but I am having as good results on Swansons, and I really like keeping a little of my money in my pocket. There isn’t anything in enzymes and probiotics that should be a problem for dogs. You do have to be careful with green supplements though. Many of the human ones have green tea or some other caffeine containing ingredient, which is a no no for dogs.

[pacer1978]

It seems that both of you recommended Swanson’s brand for Probiotic and Enzymes. I’m also thinking of trying a green food of some sort. I guess I’m still a little concerned with going to human supplements since I know there are some ingredients out there that are toxic to pets and I don’t know all of them. If I add the three below supplements, these should be helpful, correct? I can finish up the Dasuquin and Nordic Naturals supplements (designed for pets) before trying the below options. What are your thoughts? Also, if they have been on Dasuquin and it seems to agree with them (no joint issues), should I just keep them on that? The only issue is cost…they are fairly expensive to give to my three dogs. Thanks again!!

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-ultra-spirulina-il-4-natural-blue-green-algae-6-phycocyanin-500-mg-180-caps

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm-500-400-200-mg-240-tabs

[KatB]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,

Thanks for the reply and the suggestion. I will definitely look into that.

They’ve been on Wilderness for about 3-4 weeks now. I had hoped to see a lessening of the itchiness, but am not. I have also read that many people rotate foods on a fairly regular basis. Was thinking of buying either the salmon or duck formula (still Wilderness) next purchase and see if there is any change. Some folks have said that chicken can be a fairly common allergen.

Many moons ago, we also purchased wet food (canned – I think it was Kirkland from Costco) to supplement the dry food. My yellow boy would vomit, so we only do the dry food now. But then again, we did not try a different wet food. So they only get the dry kibble, which we add either a little chicken broth or warm water to. Sometimes we also supplement with low fat vanilla yogurt or cottage cheese to add some moisture.

I also read about NB being manufactured in Diamond plants, which was also a major concern to me. Prior to the sale though, their reviews seemed to be pretty good. I think this site even rated them 4 star, but I could be wrong as I’ve been reading about so many brands lately! Not to argue the point at all, but it is surprising to me that my friend landed on that brand after all her research.

Thanks for the links and the advice! Very much appreciated. Will look into the enzymes asap. And if you have any thoughts about rotating food and dry vs. wet, would love to hear!

Thanks,
KatB

[KatB]

Hi!
So, have been reading a lot about dog foods and various kinds, as well as dietary supplements for my two fur babies. I am looking for some help and suggestions from others who may be experiencing similar issues. So a little background first…..

I have two labs, a male yellow that is 6 going on 7, and a female black who is 4 going on 5. They are pretty healthy I am happy to say! My boy the yellow though, has sensitive skin and has been an itchy boy for most of his life. This past year, he was bitten by something in the back yard that gave him hives and an allergic reaction, treated by benedryl. He has also developed a skin infection on the underside of his chin twice this year. Baby girl the black does not have the skin problems he seems to have, however she got a a bacterial infection on her tummy twice this year. They have been on Kumpi, and have always loved it. Due to the skin issues and infections that they both suffered this year, and also due to the high caloric count that Kumpi has, I decided to try something else.

So we switched to Blue Wilderness, the chicken formula. We are on the 2nd bag now. They love the taste and eat it just fine. After reading about the high protein diet, and taking into consideration the skin issues, I also just started adding probiotics (Probiotic Miracle) and Celavin Omega 3 Oil. Am starting with smaller doses…..today is the 2nd day they have gotten a full 1/4 tsp. of the probiotic, and they also got a 1/4 tsp. of the oil. So far haven’t noticed anything different, but also no ill effects.

What I am noticing in the yard though…..loose and very fragrant (and not in a good way!) stools. I am hoping that the probiotics will start to kick in and help with that, but am wondering if there is an average time frame to start noticing a difference? They also seemed a tad gassy for awhile, that seems to have subsided, but probably still a bit too early to tell. Their stools are also not consistently loose…..some look pretty good, but not as firm as I would like to see. I would also like to find a food that might reduce the amount of stools that I am seeing. I read somewhere recently, may have been here, that a lady had her dog on a food and routine that has resulted in one stool per day…..wow! While I don’t necessarily expect that kind of result, it does seem like they are pooping a lot.

This whole subject of best food(s) to feed is mind boggling to me….so many variables. A dear friend who is very health conscious, both for herself and her dogs, feeds hers Natural Balance (Dick Patten). But since they have now been sold to Del Monte, I have some real concerns that the good reputation they have built for their foods will soon go the way of many foods that have been bought out by large corporations. I am not necessarily ready to give up on Blue Wilderness, but am also reading that perhaps a potato free food may be a better choice. Sweet potato would be ok I think, from what I have read, but “regular” white potatoes can be an allergent.

So looking for some good advice on what to do here…..hang in and see if the probiotics start to kick in and do their job, or keep looking for a food that I can be confident is safe for them, and might help my itchy boy be more comfortable. The probiotic jar is such a small amount for the price…..I am willing to spend on my babies, that’s for sure! But it would be nice to find a food where I could potentially limit the supplements. That may be the ideal world. Would love suggestions on more cost effective probiotics and if I’m on the right track!

Any and all comments and suggestions welcome! I know that there are a lot of you who have done tons of research more than I have, and am hoping to get some shared knowledge that might help.

Thank you in advance and I look forward to hearing your comments! It is very much appreciated.

KatB….dog mom!

[pacer1978]

Also, just out of curiosity..I hear that some vitamins/supplements don’t absorb as they should and aren’t high quality. I purchased the 15 strain brand that was recommended from Swanson’s and then read afterward in a review somewhere that it only had 3 billion of the bacteria versus some other high number that it should be. How can you tell a quality brand from another? What makes Swanson’s recommendable?

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi HDM, was recommended this product on a fb group and was wondering what you thought of it!
http://www.naturalcanine.com/green_power.html
I really like the looks of the see spot live longer dinner mix, I want to feed raw in the pm, am is ziwipeak air dried, and this may be just what I need! I liked urban wolf, but I want to stay away from potatoes, they make Dawsons eyes really watery! And I believe you are one that is OK with grocery store meats? Its all I can get right now, not too much in the ways of organics around here, but it is better than commercially made foods?… I was thinking of doing Nature’s Variety raw again, but have been on the fence…
I also am going to add in turmeric and some krill oil for supplements, he does love sardines, if he ate a can a week could I cut out the krill oil? A can drained is 80 grams. Or switch between krill and sardines if that would be helpful?
Have you ever heard of omega-alpha products, used some for my horse, and saw they had pet products I am mainly interested the probiotics and enzymes:
http://omegaalpha.ca/en/product/114/Probiotic_8_Plus_trade/
If you liked it, I thought it may be an option for Canadians!

[SandyandMila]

I don’t mind the travel, I traveled just to find her a particular supplement yesterday. lol I order online if I have to but I’ve been able to find RMBs and green tripe locally and with Thanksgiving just around the corner turkey necks and hearts will be easier to get.

[SandyandMila]

beaglemom: I know! On that group they practically scold you for asking questions. It seems a lot if dog parents need help because their dogs are getting ill on raw, well maybe if they’re being instructed to feed it the right way (with organ meat, tripe, veggies/fruits, supplements) they wouldn’t be getting sick. I just started switching to raw a little over a month ago after getting Mila spayed and vaccinated. Her skin and coat really took a hit by the weakening of her immune system. I joined that group in hopes of getting some help, finding suppliers, maybe shared recipes. I officially left that group the other day. People on here are so helpful. They take time out of there busy lives to help educate us on proper nutrition for our dogs, they’re not rude even when others have been rude to them. A lot of us newbies have no clue what to do or where to start they help us to point us in the right direction. Mila’s skin and coat is starting to look a lot better and she’s long, lean, and muscular and I know it’s because of their help. Mila begs for her food now (just had her first raw dressed rabbit this morning) , she never did that before with commercial food, and that was some of the best stuff out there. So I’m very pleased. Which Nature’s Logic do you use? I only feed kibble one meal a week and am trying Annamaet right now and will probably switch to Nature’s Logic when the bag is done.

[beaglemom]

SandyandMila/HDM… haha I just had to comment on this (though I know it was awhile ago). HDM you must never have joined the “rawfeeding” yahoo group! They are “interesting” to say the least… I definitely come here first but here’s the lessons this list wants you to believe: dogs need zero supplements, ever; all dogs need to eat is meat meat meat (and a little bone and a little organs); bones don’t clean teeth, tearing at meat chunks does; necks of any sort have no place in the diet unless attached to the animal; ground meat is evil; veggies and fruits are evil; tripe is useless. LOL. I will join the “thank goodness i found this site” crowd and also to tie in to the topic of this thread, I am expecting my first Hare Today order on Wednesday and can’t wait!!! (And it includes duck necks!!!) 🙂

[apriliamille]

hello all, i just read the entire thread and whew tons of information. i have a few questions but wanted to also make a few comments if they would help as well.

my 7 month old doberman girl is a rocket eater. so fast she throws up. i found i was able to slow her down by using one of our deep wall cookie sheets for her food. prior to this she would eat so fast that she would finish in time, throw up, eat again and then go and try to ninja the boxer’s food while he was eating. now the boxer finishes first and stares at her eating. a nice cheap solution to speed eating.

i saw a couple posts on high value treats. i live in central utah and we have a meat and game processing locker here called fords. they sell dog jerky treats that my girl goes bonkers over during our track training. i messed up a small ziplock baggie thats in our training pack and whew, the leash harness and toys smelled like the jerky the next session. they sell them on ebay for 15 bucks / 2 pounds free ship

hound dog mom, thank you soooo much for the information docs. one of the pages back i saw where dr tim was removed from the 2nd list but man it took me 3 hours to get through the whole thread. was it due to it not saying puppy or ALS on the packaging? i cant remember. This list came at a very fortunate time for me. we love our food we feed but due to a short term financial crisis emergency i have to reduce costs untill i get back on my feet. luckily i have 70 pounds of her current food available for her to help with a transition. im hoping to find something i can supplement her current with until i get back on my feet (i hope that makes sense). i was starting off thinking after the first doc of either earthborn or dr tim. but then the 2nd doc came out. any suggestions on this?

also we have a facebook group that is for our zip code regional for pets. may i share your doc on that for others to look at?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Patty you’ve got me figured out – lol!

Pacer –

When feeding any cooked food, such as kibble, I recommend supplementing with enzymes. Raw foods naturally contain enzymes however these enzymes are destroyed during the cooking process. For a healthy dog it would be fine to give enzymes at half the recommended dose. Unless there is a certain health issue, I don’t believe dogs fed raw foods need supplemental enzymes.

I believe all dogs should receive probiotics. For a healthy dog, giving a probiotic supplement or feeding a serving or plain yogurt, kefir or raw tripe two or three times a week should be adequate to maintain a healthy and diverse population of microflora in the gut. My dogs get raw green tripe three days per week and a little bit of plain kefir several times per week. For dogs with certain health issues (particularly digestive issues or systemic candidiasis) it may be advisable to give supplemental probiotics daily.

As Patty pointed out, eating grass doesn’t always mean there’s a nutritional issue – it’s actually a fairly normal behavior. You could certainly try adding a green supplement to see if it helps and even if it doesn’t help green supplements are a healthy source of whole food trace nutrients.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sandy –

I do occasionally use small amounts of plant-based oils in conjunction with a quality fish oil – while I like my dogs getting the majority of their EFAs from animal sources I do like to provide some variety through the occasionally use of plant oils, sprouted flax, sprouted chia or hemp seeds. If you’ve been doing krill for awhile you might want to try something new. At the moment my girls are taking (I’m taking this as well) Carlson’s salmon oil complete – it has astaxanthin like krill oil. If you want to experiment with some plant based EFAs that’s fine, but be sure to continue with a quality animal based EFA supplement as well for the DHA and EPA. And don’t worry about all the questions, I don’t mind. 🙂

[pacer1978]

Hello All,

HDM..you answered some questions I had in another thread. You had mentioned probiotics to me in that thread, but after reading this one here, since I feed my dogs kibble, would you recommend probiotics or enzymes for them instead?

My dogs also want to eat grass. What does that mean? Should I start them on a “green” supplement as you mentioned? Is there one that you recommend?

Thank you!

[SandyandMila]

Oh man, I’ve written 2 long replies and they disappeared. But anyways, I’ve been using krill oil for a few months now and just recently started with sardine oil and have been using coconut oil for the past year or so. I’ve been feeding sardines about once or twice a week with her raw. I am also looking into supplementing with vitamin e and of course the your whole food supplement I’ve been asking about and have already started giving her the NL supplement. I just wanted to know more info on flax and if it was something I needed to supplement. I’m running low on krill oil, should I stick with it and get some more or try something different, maybe salmon oil? I notice you use omega 3-6-9 with evening primrose, is that a good choice? Sorry about all the questions

[Hound Dog Mom]

Supplements (especially herbal and whole foods supplements) aren’t something students learn about in veterinary technology or veterinary medicine classes. It’s just something I research on my own. It seems most veterinarians would rather prescribe antibiotics or steroids than to try and get to the root of the problem – which more often than not is correlated with poor nutrition. I don’t believe it’s a money thing, I just don’t think most vets know the alternatives. The big corporate food companies and pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and it extends into the veterinary classroom. Check out Dr. Karen Becker’s website healthypets(dot)mercola(dot)com – I’m a big fan of hers and her website has a lot of great information. I also really like Dr. Goldstein – he has a wonderful book called “The Nature of Animal Healing.”

[pacer1978]

P.S- Are you learning all of this in veterinarian school in regards to the supplements and what supplement/herbs help what issues? I’m wondering why veterinarians don’t suggest these types of supplements for our dogs..especially the cheaper alternative with the human supplements. It seems like all they want to do is give them shots to “clear” things up, only for the allergy/rash to return. Do you think it is because of the money?

[losul]

LOL

I’ve sampled a couple of dog foods, but I definitely have my limits. I could never, ever become a kibble kruncher. I have however tasted most parrot pellets and nuts/seed though before we feed, and by experiences, I’m glad I do so.

On the supplements, human or not, as limited as we use them, and especially with having very loose regulations, to put it lightly, I personally rarely ever use any pill, tablet or capsule, preferring to rely on senses like taste, smell, and sight. Take fish oil for example. If you swallow gel caps of it, how would you know if it might be rancid until you begin to belch vile tastes and odors? And in the case of enteric coated caps you won’t even get any warning at all. It’s also really hard to determine the actual source, process, etc. used.

Anyone that is a regular sunflower seed eater, especially with the hull on, has probably had the opportunity to taste what complete rancidity/spoilage is like. One bad seed chewed can put out such a horrible taste, it can seem like hours to get the taste out, even with thorough rinsing and brushing.

Btw, I forgot. dulse sprinkled into chili just before serving is also especially tasty, IMO, you can still use cheddar cheese as a topping also 🙂 . Not me, but some people eat whole dried dulse like other folks would potato chips.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I’ve heard up to 1 tsp. per 20 lbs., as Patty stated. It is a maximum dose though – you don’t have to give that much and can certainly give less if fat and/or calories are a concern. My girls (one slightly under 70 lbs. and the other slightly over 70 lbs.) get 1 tbs. each per day.

That actually sounds like a well rounded supplement regimen to me – definitely not overboard. If you’re looking to cut costs on the joint supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. There are so many different supplements to choose from all at a reasonable price. For a senior dog with joint issues you’d want to be sure to include something with joint maintenance properties and also anti-inflammatory properties. Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, hyaluronic acid, esterified fatty acids (such as celadrin), green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, shark cartilage and velvet antler all support the maintenance of joints. Turmeric (or curcumin), boswellia, bromelain, tart cherry, yucca, microlactin, omega 3’s, devil’s claw and white willow all have natural anti-inflammatory properties. You can try some combinations until you find what works. Swanson’s does sell a supplement called “Mobility Essentials” which contains glucosamine, MSM, boswellia, bromelain, chondroitin, white willow, curcumin, devil’s claw, quercetin, sea cucumber and yucca – at $10.99 for 180 caps (a 60 lb. dog would need 3 – 4 caps per day and a 40 lb. dog would need 2 – 3 caps per day) it’s a bargain and I know people who have success with it for both human and animal use. I used NOW Foods brand Celadrin + MSM ($16.49 for 120 caps) for my senior before he died.

No, I’m not a vet. I’m currently working towards my bachelor’s in veterinary technology and canine nutrition is my main area of interest. As of now I plan on applying to vet school after I get my vet tech degree – not sure if it will happen or not, I’ll just have to see how everything pans out.

[InkedMarie]

I completely agree with Patty, about the supplement & food. Good luck, stick around!

[theBCnut]

If your dogs are on something that they are not reacting to, you should be able to tell very quickly if something you are adding is messing with them. At the first sign of hot skin, itchiness, eye or ear discharge assume it isn’t working and immediately go back to what was working. Note how long it took for you to be able to tell and what signs you saw first. Then after things go back to normal again, if you want to test if it was your imagination or not, you can try again and watch for the same or more reaction to appear again. I can tell my dogs is feeling moist and hot within 6 hours of giving him something that doesn’t agree with him, but my husband can’t tell the difference. Good luck.

[ILoveDogs]

I questioned my vet about supplemental Vitamin C, cranberry, and probiotics and he agreed that all could help. Since this is such a small town, I’ve decided to put Jada on the S.O. short-term and also add Vit C, cranberry and probiotics that I’ll order online. Then in about 8-10 weeks I’m going to take her to one of the larger towns that is 1 to 1-1/2 hours away that has larger veterinary practices and have her tested again and hopefully be able to get better advice on her condition. I love living in this beautiful small town but the downside is limited care for my pets, as well as for me. Thanks for your support and suggestions.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Pacer –

Omega 3’s found in fish oil can be beneficial for joints due to their anti-inflammatory effects, however they wouldn’t be a substitute for a joint supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As Sandy stated the Avocado is safe. It would be fine to add the NL supplement to kibble and canned – it contains a lot of whole foods plus enzymes and probiotics but you could certainly add a green supplement instead, it’s really up to you.

[Pugsonraw]

Anyone have any advice on transitioning allergy prone dogs to new supplements? My experience has been that I will try a new whole food supplement, joint product, enzyme or probiotic and within days my dogs are a hot itchy mess. I try to change only one thing at a time to try to test drive a product.

Needless to say, I’ve tried a lot of products. Not sure on how long to wait before deciding if a product is working or adding to their allergies.

Looking for some feedback…..thanks, Dawn

[dog34747]

I have an 8 year old male, retired racing greyhound with a very sensitive stomach and allergies. He’s had severe ear infections, nasal congestion, compulsive licking and digestive problems. He is also hyper allergic to flea bites, with them even turning in to mini staph infections at each bite. Over the past 3 1/2 years I have tried nearly every brand on the market from Purina on up to Orijen. If it’s sold anywhere between the specialty boutique shops and PetsMart, I have probably tried it. I’ve tried grain-in, grain-free, corn-free, soy-free, gluten-free, chicken-free… etc. etc. I have tried chicken, turkey, fish, lamb, beef, bison, and I think one even had ostrich or something. Basically I’ve tried everything. I have even tried the high-end frozen raw diet food, he just simply won’t touch it. He does not appear to be allergic to chicken specifically, I’ve tried poultry based foods and foods with absolutely no poultry of any kind and the result is the same.

Every single grain-free food causes, horrendous breath, loose stool and severe gas. No amount of pumpkin, yogurt, supplement pro-biotics or pre-biotics seems to fix it, sometimes those relieve things for a day or two but never permanently. It seems directly linked to the percent of protein, above a certain point and these issues start. He seems ok around 22% but usually anything in that range is not grain-free.

The grain-in foods (and treats) increase his nasal congestion (like a kid sucking the snot in vs. blowing his nose, not the same as a reverse sneeze) and the obsessive licking, and they also exacerbates the ear infections. He has had the ear infections recurring, or perhaps even continually but low level, since I got him. He was on a grain-in food when I got him and I immediately switched to grain-free but the ear never fully cleared up even on grain-free. The ear is finally cleared up (for now) after lots of meds though I’m worried his diet will bring it back.

I have tried some raw foods and veggies but they seem to pass through him without even being digested at all.

Any kind of food with potato as a major ingredient seems to act as an immediate diuretic, causing him to be constantly thirsty, panting and drinking and therefore needing to go out 7+ per day every few hours and even having accidents in the house which otherwise he has never had before. This includes all those limited ingredient foods because they all seems to be potato based.

The only time I have had any luck with a food is with Iams Sensitive Naturals Ocean Fish. Yes, I know it doesn’t rank highly and many people here are against it, but it was literally the only food that stopped the breath/stool/gas problems in their tracks, nearly overnight. I’ve heard others say they had similar good luck with Iams and attribute it to the beet pulp, not sure if that’s really true but I can say it worked for my dog. He went about eating it with no digestive issues for 9 months or so but the silent ear infection got worse and worse and the nasal issues got worse. Then we tried Eukanuba Wild Salmon/Rice and the ear/nasal continued to get worse and the licking started. The only benefit to the Eukanuba was his coat was suddenly full, fluffy and soft and the traditional greyhound bald spots were even filling in. I was bothered by the increase in allergies so I’ve gone back to looking for something else.

So I’ve since re-tried several other grain-free foods and the Biljac Sensitive formula, all produce the same old problems. Re-tried a limited potato food, same problem.

I’d like to note he has been tested repeatedly for worms, giardia, heartworms, etc. and all negative. He has had bloodwork taken regularly and it is all absolutely perfect, including thyroid. His teeth have been cleaned by the vet recently and are good. He has absolutely no medical issues outside of the allergies and stomach sensitivities. Also, several vets and others suggested giving him claritan or benedryl to relieve the nasal and skin related reactions but it seems to do nothing for him.

I’m sorry this post is so long, thanks for reading all of it, I was trying to give the full background so folks know what I’ve already tried on this great food adventure. I’m looking for any suggestions, advice, testimonials, whatever on food and treats. I’m willing to try any food to get him to be comfortable, as long as it doesn’t require a second mortgage to pay for it. Thanks in advance!

[pacer1978]

Hope you all don’t mind me asking one more question. If I give my dogs Nordic Naturals Omega Fish Oils and Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, do I still need to give them Dasuquin/Cosuquin? Wouldn’t both oils help with joints or am I wrong? I just don’t want to be spending money where I don’t have to if there isn’t more of a benefit or “over-supplement”.

Also, is it OK to give all the dosages in the mornings? I sometimes get home late since I take evening classes and that means my husband has to feed the dogs. I know he won’t keep up on giving them the supplements adequately and giving it to them in the mornings is the only way I can ensure they are getting everything.
Thanks again!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I add all the ingredients in equal parts but you can add them in whatever ratios you want them in – that’s the nice thing about making your own supplement. Dulse is a type of seaweed, it would be more of a substitute for kelp rather than bee pollen but you really don’t have to stick to a set list of ingredients, go with whatever ingredients you think will benefit your dog most. If you don’t want bee pollen in the supplement you could certainly substitute something else.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Aussie Mom –

Homemade raw is actually much cheaper than pre-made raw. I spend just under $200 a month to feed my girls a homemade raw diet – for comparative purposes it would cost me nearly $800 per month to feed Darwin’s (based on the average cost of all of their formulas). There are many ways to keep costs low when feeding a homemade raw diet: 1) Utilize raw meaty bones (chicken backs, turkey necks, etc.) – they are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat and if fed in appropriate quantities will eliminate the need for a calcium supplement; 2) Use heart, gizzards and green tripe for the muscle meat component of the diet – these items are cheap and nutritious, dogs have no need for expensive cuts of meat such as boneless skinless chicken breast or beef sirloin; 3) Buy in bulk. I purchase my meat from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – nearly every item I buy is under $1 per pound; 4) Purchase supplements from a human nutritional store, in bulk when possible – this is much cheaper than buying supplements marketed towards pets. I purchase all supplements for both myself and my dog from Swanson’s – best prices I’ve seen. I make my own green supplement by purchasing the ingredients I want in 1 lb. bags and combining them.

Hare Today is great – I do purchase a few things from there (mostly Green Tripe). Their products are not human grade as they contain things like green tripe, ground bone, fur/feathers (for whole prey grinds) that are not suitable for human consumption (but very nutritious for animals) and the products aren’t processed in a human food facility. Using Hare Today grinds may be slightly cheaper than pre-made raw but if you really want to cut costs you need to do it from scratch – many butchers will sell RMBs and offal cheaply as they’re not desirable for humans or hook up with a supplier like I did.

If you’re interested in homemade raw I would highly recommend purchasing “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. It’s wonderful book for beginners and includes AAFCO compliant recipes that are easy to make and utilize easy to find and cheap ingredients. Dogaware(dot)com is also a great online resource.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey losul –

I used tried the Amazing Grass’ Green SuperFood chocolate drink mix – I love the ingredients but it was one of the nastiest things I’ve ever tasted. I went back to Wysong’s whole food supplement capsules – much more palatable lol. I wouldn’t recommend using the Amazing Grass supplement for a dog because it contains green tea and it doesn’t state that it’s been decaffeinated. This is the problem with many green supplements designed for humans.

[Hound Dog Mom]

SandyandMila –

Yes you could rotate a homemade greens supplement with the Nature’s Logic supplement.

[pugmomsandy]

This might be easier for you: http://www.wysong.net/products/ph-dog-cat-supplement.php (Wysong Biotic pH-)

I shop mostly online but also get items at the health food store. I give d-mannose or other cranberry herbal product, Garden of Life Raw C or Mercola liposomal C, and Bragg apple cider vinegar or Flea Free Supplement (garlic and vinegar). And they take probiotics and colostrum. If their pH does not become more acidic, then I will give a dl-methionine product instead (Wysong Biotic pH-).

[Anonymous]

Have you tried a Calming Cap?

There are many calming supplements on the market, some have published studies behind them. You may have to try and see which one might help.

I also suggest to bridge the gap between trips around town and long trips. You wouldn’t go out and run a marathon without careful and deliberate training. Start with trips just a bit longer than your around town trips and gradually build on it. If you get “the hassles” you have asked for more than your dog can handle. Back up and reduce the distance. Then increase in smaller steps.

You could also talk with your vet about Dramamine. He may have motion sickness issues that only surface on long trips. Plus, the original Dramamine has a mild sedating effect.

Who knows, may be he has made some really bad experience on a long trip and you are dealing with an old trauma.

[ILoveDogs]

Where do you get the supplements? Are they available online? I’d also read that giving cranberry, Vit C and probiotics can help.

[pugmomsandy]

Ok. My dogs see a holistic vet. They have some struvite but are not symptomatic of any kind of infection. I give them urinary health supplements and they continue with their regular diet.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[ILoveDogs]

My dog was just diagnosed with crystals in her urine. She does not have an infection but my vet suggested changing her to Royal Canin SO. I always try to feed my dogs the very best I can afford. Currently they’re on a grain free diet of a mix of Wellness CORE and Canadae Pure Elements kibble with a little grain free canned and fresh chicken mixed in. I hate the ingredients of the SO – corn, rice, etc. Plus Jada has allergies and the grain free diet seems to help with that, along with fish oil supplement and sometime a Benedryl. Any suggestions for a diet other than what she’s receiving and in place of the SO?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SandyandMila –

Sorry I didn’t even see that post!

I use regular wheat grass powder but wheat grass juice powder is fine too – it’s probably better actually, it’s more expensive which is why I use the regular wheat grass. You can use this supplement daily, it doesn’t have to just be when she eats raw. Adding a superfood boost on the days she eats kibble or dehdyrated is beneficial as well. Also, you can rotate around the ingredients as much as you want – the options really are endless. I’ve used chlorella, dulse, barley grass powder, tart cherry powder, beet juice powder, etc. etc. For dosing I’d say maybe 1/2 tsp. for small dogs, 1 – 1 1/2 tsp. for medium dogs, 1 1/2 – 2 tsp. for large dogs and 2 – 3 tsp. for giant dogs. I give my girls (70 lbs.) 2 tsp. each per day.