[penny m]

Hi everyone- I am considering adopting a dog which has a history of struvite crystals and stones in her urine. Her former owner was going to have her euthanized because of it. I am researching homemade dog food recipes good for dogs prone to struvite stones and urinary issues. I need to have an idea of what care will be entailed before I decide whether to take in this animal. Please share homemade dog food recipes I could make for her
Thank You so much!!

[anonymous]

Hope these articles help (written by veterinarians)

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266

[anonymous]

“One case of UTI in 30 months doesn’t seems like a re-occuring issue”
“Do you have any specific concerns about the Firstmate?”

I am just saying keep an eye out for the urinary tract infections to return, if they do, I would have an ultrasound done.
This is based on my experience with a small breed dog that had his first uti/crystals episode at the age of 11 after a late in life neuter (necessary due to a testicular tumor)
All went well, antibiotics, prescription food……low and behold another uti 6 months later.
Took him to the emergency vet, they did an ultrasound immediately and found multiple stones, emergency surgery performed, stones sent off for analysis, dog had BOTH struvite and calcium oxalate stones.
Specific diet recommended, did the prescription food for a while (1 year)
Water added to all meals, frequent bathroom breaks provided, no further problems.
Dog lived another 5 years and passed due to unrelated causes.
PS: FirstMate sounds good, just drench it in water 🙂

[pitlove]

You made no mention that your dog was almost clear of struvite crystals, just that you “wanted her off RC”. I assumed it was because you thought it was an inferior product based on what you’ve read on sites like this. If your vet ok’d a food change then it is fine, however you did not mention that at first, so I was not aware the vet had said she could come off the urinary diet.

[pitlove]

Hi sam c-

You said ” My vet is always pushing RC”

I take it you see this as a problem? However, your vet is recommending Royal Canin because they offer one of the best diets known to dissolve struvite crystals and uroliths. First Mate is not formulated for dogs with struvite crystals or uroliths. Also the amount of blueberries in the food is not theraputic and will not provide any help with prevention of struvite crystals.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Diane S-
Sorry to hear about your pup! As you probably know, the s/d food can only be used short term due to it not being complete and balanced. The c/d food can be fed long term. That being said, they both are formulated to dissolve and prevent struvite stones. Neither work to dissolve the oxalate ones. They cannot be dissolved, only passed or removed.
Are you using the dry or canned prescription food? If not using canned, I’d give it a try. It would add more moisture to the diet which in addition to dissolving helps flush both types of crystals/stones.
Also, Royal Canin has an Rx food for bladder and urinary crystals as well. It has an S/O index which is supposed to help prevent both types of crystals. Maybe your vet would approve of one of their urinary formulas. That is what I feed to my cat with this issue. I also add plenty of canned food to his diet. I know that canned food is expensive, but as we both know, the surgery with an overnight stay cost a lot more!!!
I’m curious, has your dog had urinary tract infections too? If yes, have they been treated with antibiotics?
As was mentioned to you above, try to get as much water and plenty of bathroom breaks as possible to help your pup’s pee diluted. I wish you the best!

[anonymous]

Did you speak to your vet about prescription medication for stubborn cases?
The x-ray, I believe is non-negotiable. It’s very important to rule out bladder stones, calcium oxalate stones don’t dissolve. Dogs can have more than one type of stone. This could explain the reoccurrences
Are you adding water to meals? Frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.

See my previous post /forums/topic/dogs-with-struvite-bladder-stones/#post-104899

Most vets offer financing https://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

[Diane S]

My toy poodle had surgery for a combination of Oxidate (?) and Struvite Stone; 14 months later it was back. At that time I fed her Hills s/d and saw improvement within two weeks, continued the food for about 2.5 months, went back to Hills c/d food and in about a year, symptoms again. She’s back on the s/d, improving less quickly than last time. I don’t know what to do, having surgery every 12-14 months isn’t possible as my income is below the poverty line and I don’t have the money, but more importantly I couldn’t put my dog through surgery that often. I could probably borrow the money for surgery again, depending upon the Stone size $1400-$1900. In slightly over a year I’d have to put her through it again bc obviously they will continue to afflict her. Also, the x-rays are $450 over and above cost of surgery. I love her and don’t want her to suffer. I don’t know what to do. I hope that the s/d food will do its job again, but if it doesn’t?

[Gary W]

you have alternatives to feeding Hill’s Prescription Diet C/d to your dog. First, if you are feeding C/d for struvite crystals and stones, you might just confirm that they are gone with a urinalysis, xrays, and/or ultrasound of the kidneys and urinary bladder.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Gary W.

[anonymous]

I have never tried Evo, therefore I am not familiar with it.
I have had good luck with Zignature whitefish and Nutrisca salmon.
Both are grain free and potato free.
Pro Plan Focus for sensitive stomach and skin is potato free, not grain free.
Three or four small meals per day instead of two.

The most important thing, as you have learned is, add water, presoak kibble too, if need be. Also, make sure to offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
Stagnant conditions in the bladder contribute to stone formation.
Some dogs just don’t drink enough, if at all. Combine that with a genetic predisposition and you have trouble.

copied from one of my previous posts regarding a similar topic:
“Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet”.
“Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs”.

This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266

[Jennifer W]

Hello, I am new here. Looking for advice regarding struvite crystals. Because of my concern about the prescription dog food my dog is eating I am looking for alternative choices. Noelle M, thank you for your research! I’m going to look into the foods you have listed in your post. I’m open to advice and suggestions on this matter. Thank you

[anonymous]

Copied from a previous post:

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.

Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[HoundMusic]

“She is currently on Nature’s Recipe Grain Free kibble and since I switched her to grain-free a few months ago her mood dramatically increased and she has so much more energy so I want to keep grain free.”

Of course she has more energy! Amino acids are a main source of energy for the body. Grain free foods normally contain extreme amounts of protein that would not even be necessary for a working dog or brood bitch, so the dog is obviously going to have more energy to burn. That, however, does not necessarily equate to better health.

If I am not mistaken, struvite stones form in an acidic urine, so Vitamin C supplements and a high meat diet are the last things you want to give this dog, because both contribute to higher urine acidity; whereas grains and other complex carbs tend to lower the acidity. Another problem of grain free feeds is the high mineral content, which can contribute to kidney/urinary problems in susceptible dogs.

My advice would be to temporarily use one of the prescription diets. Forget the ingredients. It is the quality, bioavailability and nutritional content of a feed that truly matters. Then find something you are comfortable feeding that has around 24-26% protein, and that should give you a very equal balance of grains to meat. That alone will naturally lower the dog’s urine acidity and hopefully prevent recurrence.

[Susan]

Pitlove
maybe you should contact Hills & ask them about the C/d Multicare vet diets, it also used to dissolving stone/crystals, the stew was brought out a few years ago cause dogs weren’t eating the Hills S/d formula, C/d Muticare is lower in fat, here in Australia the C/d Multicare & C/d Oringal formula’s is used for health condition Toto has….
Here is Hills American advertisment for the C/d MUTLICARE formula..

NEW AND IMPROVED HILL’S PRESCRIPTION DIET™ c/d™ Multicare Canine From the pioneers of urinary innovation comes a new single solution to help give dogs the care they need. And now, satisfy with the lowest fat, best tasting c/d™ formula ever2 — dogs can’t wait to eat it!
+ Dissolve struvite stones and limit risk of recurrence with controlled levels of magnesium and phosphorus + Discourage the formation of Calcium Oxalate crystals and stones with controlled levels of calcium, oxalate and added potassium citrate
URINARY TRACT DISEASE
REDUCE THE RISK OF OXALATE AND STRUVITE STONES
DISSOLVE STRUVITE STONES1
REDUCE INFLAMMATION FROM UTIs AND STONES
Meet the only solution with Triple Barrier Protection
1. when used with appropriate antimicrobial therapy 2. vs. Original c/d™ Canine

[anonymous]

Wait a minute…..your dog did not have surgery to remove the stones in his bladder.
Okay, the vet is probably hoping they are struvite and will dissolve.
If they don’t (they will x-ray/ultrasound at the re-check appointment) they may be another type of stone that doesn’t dissolve, calcium oxalate for example.

I wondered about the $800, my dog’s emergency surgery was a lot more, they sent the stones off to a lab to be analyzed, otherwise they can’t identify what type they.

That being said, at the 3 month checkup x-ray a couple of new baby calcium oxalate stones had developed already! They never moved around or caused him any trouble, because he was a senior and had other issues we decided not to act aggressively.

[anonymous]

I think the broth is a good idea. How old is he? My peke had these issues at age 11. I did what I recommended that you do and he never had any more urinary tract infections, he made it to age 16 and passed due to unrelated causes, primarily dementia.

See my posts in this thread
./forums/topic/great-pyreneesanatolian-sheapard-mix-with-struvite-stones/

Good luck

[Robin B]

Thx. I’m puzzled because he had crystals in his urethra (catheter flushed) and stones in his bladder. Seen by ultrasound & xray. His urinalysis showed no infection. So we left the emergency hospital with 3 days of painkillers from the procedure & prescription S/D to dissolve stones & 2 week recall to our own vet. If they’re struvite stones, why no infection?
It’s always been hard to get him to take in enough fluids but a weak broth is helping & I’m adding water to his wet food. 24 lb possible schnauzer cross (mini-schnauzers are prone to stones) who appears to be at the right weight for height; gets at least 2 hours on-leash walks per day (divided into 2, 3 or 4 walks depending on weather and life)
For now the water works seem functional but solid waste management is on a Wild-cat strike.

[anonymous]

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[Noelle M]

This is a hot topic for me lol
I have a dog with struvite stones and chronic utis.
Of course when we were given this diagnosis we were recommended a prescription diet from our vet. I immediately cringed at the ingredient list that was majority corn. There was no way I was going to feed my dog what was essentially corn meal with chicken fat half way down the list for the rest of his life. So I began my very long, very draining journey into finding a decent food that wouldn’t cause a flare up.
First I had to figure out WHY the prescription diets worked. Right on the Hill’s website they explain that the food contains controlled levels of calcium, phosphorus and magnesium to manage the development of stones.
So I took the calcium, phosphorus and magnesium levels from the prescription food and started comparing them to other foods. SO many foods. Many of which I had to email the company directly because they didn’t have those levels available online.
Essentially I looked for food with calcium and phosphorus levels below 1%, the lower the better. There are actually quite a few to choose from!
My boy has been on Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior for the past number of months, his meals are floated in water and I add a cranberry supplement. His condition has been kept 100% under control and he is doing wonderfully overall on this food.
Generally I have found that senior or large breed formulas are more likely to have sub 1% calcium and phosphorus.

Some of the brands I have found that could work are:
Performatrin Ultra Grain Free Senior
Nutram Sound Senior and Large Breed
Diamond Naturals Grain Free Chicken and Sweet Potato

I give bonus points to foods that contain cranberry already, though I continue to supplement it.

Bottom line is the prescription foods WILL work to treat a specific condition, but I personally could not bring myself to feed it long term based on the ingredient lists. There ARE decent quality foods out there that match or come close to matching the analysis of the prescription diets that should manage the dog’s symptoms and are generally much healthier overall. Look for subzero levels of calcium and phosphorus, float the food in water and consider a cranberry supplement.

Obviously I cannot gaurentee that any of these foods will work, but it is definitely worth a shot imo and has worked beautifully for my dog who had pretty severe and chronic symptoms.

Good luck!

[Cherie G]

I’d like to thank “crazy4cats” and “anon101″ for the information and websites you have suggested I look into.
This has taken me to a better understanding about
Struvite stones and dog food ingredients and diets. I, like many others just accept what my vet had said as far as what to feed her. She has now been on Royal Canin SO for over a year. She was a rescue so the sample of the stone wasn’t analyzed to see if it was Struvite or Oxylate. I do intend to do this since I have it. She doesn’t appear to have urinary track infections, and goes pee 3-5 times a day. The stone was 2” and oval like an egg in a little 19# Bischon mix. After reading the ingredients in RC…..Brewers rice, corn, chicken by products, chicken fat etc…….I’m thinking she may not be having enough protein? RC=crude protein 14.0%, crude fat 145.0% crude fiber 4.% moisture 10%. I do supplement her with cooked chicken and sometimes other meats, however, not every day. After reading about chicken by products……..I’m not sure if I want her to have that! ANY COMMENTS???? I also always give her water in her kibble.
I am looking for a new dog food……that is about the same price or less. I’ve been dealing with Chewy so far. THANKS AGAIN SO MUCH!!!!! Cherie

[crazy4cats]

Hi Cherie G-

Take a look at the Rx Royal Canin Calm or Adult Small Dog kibble. They both have the S/O index. The s/o index means they are suited for dogs with struvite or oxalate crystals. It would be nice to know which type your dog has.

Hill’s Science Diet also has Rx food for pets with urinary tract issues.

I feed my cat the Feline RC Calm prescription kibble with some OTC canned food for moisture.

If any of these options look appealing, have a talk with your vet to see if you can get a prescription for one of them. Hope this helps!

[anonymous]

Another thing, when the stone was removed, the vet usually sends it out to be analyzed.
“The vet said she “thought” she had a Struvite bladder stone”.

It is important to identify the type of stone, usually struvite or calcium oxalate, it makes a difference as to which foods should be restricted.

Also, ask your vet about prescription medication for stubborn cases, if your dog is having recurring urinary tract infections and/or bladder stones.

You may find this article helpful, excerpt below, click on link for full article and more information plus treatment recommendations
http://bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/UrinaryStones.htm

Management of Bichons with Urinary Stones
 It has long been recognized that some Bichons Frises have a predisposition to formation of urinary stones (uroliths). This condition is known as urolithiasis. There are several types of stones that can form in the bladder, with struvite (also called magnesium triple phosphate or “infection” stones) and calcium oxalate being the most common in Bichons. The most important preventative for stone formation is free access to fresh water. For a dog predisposed to stone formation, there are other considerations as well. This article is intended to provide the pet owner with a better understanding of the prevention and treatment of urinary stones. Good veterinary treatment is the most reliable resource for the ongoing care of your dog. You may wish to copy this article for your veterinarian.
The Bichon Frise Club of America, Inc. sought input from Carl A Osborne DVM, PhD in preparing this material. Dr. Osborne, Professor at the College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, is considered a leading authority on canine uroliths. We are grateful to him and to his team at the Minnesota Urolith Center for their assistance in making this information available. For more information, you and your veterinarian will be aided by the book “The ROCKet Science of Canine Uroliths”. You will find details in the article below.
And now, please carefully read the following article, prepared by Dr. Osborne and his staff. At the end of the article, there are several paragraphs about Bichon health that need to be considered as a part of the total picture in treating Bichons with bladder infections and stones.

[anonymous]

Per the search engine: /forums/search/bladder+stones/
See my posts
Also regarding prescription food:

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

I have used Royal Canin SO for a dog for a dog with bladder stones with good results.
Zignature is a quality food, copy the ingredient list from Chewy and show your vet, maybe the dog could have that? Or, 1/2 and 1/2 with the prescription food? Check with your vet.
Whatever you feed, add water and maybe soft food, presoak kibble and add water.

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[Cherie G]

My dog Bischon/poodle is a rescue and is now @ 4 1/2 yrs old. I have had her for about 1 1/2 year. She had a bladder stone the size of an egg (REALLY!) and had to have surgery to have it removed. The vet said she “thought” she had a Struvite bladder stone. The Vet put her on Royal Canine SO by prescription. She has been on this about 1 yr. Now reading about the ingredients from this site, I am very worried about the food ingredients which start out with Brewers rice, corn, chicken by product meal, chicken fat and more. She is a dog that is starving at all times. I give her 1/2 C in morning and 1/2 C in evening. Make her own dog treats. Does ANYONE have experience with the bladder stones and possibly recommend a dog food that is better??? I’ve been buying it at Chewy and is less expensive than the Vet……but…….?……..now am confused.
Thank you so much……..Cherie (the human)…..Sophie (the dog)….

[Nadine H]

I stay away from any fish based product because both of my pups have had a UTI with struvite crystals. Fish is high in purine, also beef. But that isnt what you’re asking, first of all it’s been proven that protein is not an issue but overfeeding is. Actually the Horizon Pulsar is a really good food, If he’s doing well on it I would keep him on it.So many use a salmon based product and love it.
Easy for me to say when I’m all over the place trying to figure out whats best for my danes, lol. My 13 month has loose stools from any grainfree, my younger girl could eat rocks and her poop would be ok. One of my goals has been to find a food that creates firm stools for my 13 month old guy because scraping poo out of the grass isn’t something I enjoy.
I’m still on the fence regarding the Purina ProPlan and the Farmina. Every site you go to that are into holistic type foods rate purina at the bottom and pretty much say it’s the worst food you can feed but there are hundreds and hundreds of people that have good results with it.
I’m adding a little to the Framina when I feed so we’ll see how it goes.

[Nadine H]

If I’m not mistaken fish is high in purine which is not a good thing if you have a dog who is prone to UTI.s or stones. Both of my danes have had a UTI with struvite stones so I stay away from any fish based food. Beef is also high in purine.

[pitlove]

Hi anon-

I’m just sharing the information I have currently about Zignature. The girl I know that runs the rescue that shops at my job said her vet confirmed the food to be the cause of the crystal formation in all 4 of her dogs. I personally find it concerning that all 4 of her dogs developed crystals all on the same exact food. She was using the Duck variety.

Also @Tyla-

Sorry I did not answer one of your questions to me from the previous post. You can test the urine and even see crystals under a microscope. Each crystal has a different shape indicating what type of crystal it is. (Example: struvite crystals look like coffin lids under a microscope)

[anonymous]

I don’t believe this negative stuff about Zignature. My two small breeds are doing very well on the whitefish (lowest in sodium) kibble, and the catfish.
If you go to the Zignature website they answer your questions and disclose sodium levels on all their products.
I had a dog with calcium oxalate bladder stones, struvite crystals and urinary tract infections. It was serious, emergency surgery and all.
From what I could tell, the main culprits were genetic predisposition and inadequate water intake, not the food.
A lot of pet owners serve kibble dry. Put down a bowl of water and assume their dogs are drinking enough….this is often not the case.
Also, expecting these dogs to hold their urine for 10 hours a day is conducive to stagnant conditions in the bladder, perfect environment for crystals and bladder stones to form.
Keep the bladder flushed, offer bathroom breaks at the minimum, every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal). Exercise, long walks, keep the weight down. Feed twice a day, measured amounts.
Sorry, if I went off on a rant 🙂
I am just sharing what worked for my dog with this problem.

[pitlove]

Hi Tyla-

If you decide to use Zignature, two things you must consider. Zssential is the worst one to use if trying to determine if there is a food allergy at play since it is a multi protein formula.

Also several customers at my work and folks online are having their dogs develop crystals in the urine while on Zignature. One customer of ours that runs a rescue used Zignature for her 4 personal dogs. All developed struvite crystals.

Also as a word of warning. I did the same thing you are doing when my problem child dog was a pup, now he gets violently ill on any food with exotic meats and most grain free foods because of the peas.

[anonymous]

Example:
(from a previous thread on the same subject)
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[anonymous]

If the urinary tract infections reoccur despite treatment, I would ask the vet about doing an ultrasound to rule out bladder stones. Dogs can have more than one type of stone.
For example: Struvite and Calcium Oxalate.

[aimee]

Hi Christie,

I hope your Mom’s dog is feeling better.

When I read this statement it struck me as interesting. “This vet said that the dog should have been put on antibiotics for two weeks instead of one week than the other vet prescribed. He also said that the other vet should have given the prescription food at the same time as the antibiotics to help dissolve the struvite crystals, while the antibiotics worked against the infection. So that was strike two.”

I’m interpreting it as as two strikes against the first vet and I found that interesting. Was the first vet incorrect in the assessment of your dog’s condition? Was the second vet incorrect? Or were both correct or neither correct? Those are the options.

It seems one concern was over duration of treatment. Is there a right answer or is it an unknown? Way back when in the late 80’s early 90’s when my dog had UTI the standard treatment duration was 3 weeks of antibiotics. Now most consider that overkill and that that type of duration only damages the gut microflora. A newer protocol for E coli calls for only 3 days of treatment. So the “standard” is changing and shifting to shorter courses is more common, sometimes only 3-5 days are being used and 1 week is considered overkill LOL So I don’t see it as a strike against vet 1 for scripting a 7 day course.

Crystals: Are they a problem and is a special diet needed? The significance of crystals depends on the type. Since you mentioned s/d I’m going to assume they were struvite crystals. Struvite crystals are common… so common that they can be considered normal in dogs and rarely in need of any treatment. Did/do they in this situation need to be addressed with a special diet? Hmm personally I’d lean to saying no… So for me I really don’t see a big issue with the food not having been given concurrent with the meds and wouldn’t call “strike two” on vet one.

[Christie]

Ok sorry for the delay in responding. My mother’s dog had her follow up appointment with the vet on Wednesday.

To answer some of the questions: yes, the vet put her on prescribed antibiotics. However, the vet she saw this time around was a different person than the one two weeks ago. This vet said that the dog should have been put on antibiotics for two weeks instead of one week than the other vet prescribed. He also said that the other vet should have given the prescription food at the same time as the antibiotics to help dissolve the struvite crystals, while the antibiotics worked against the infection. So that was strike two.

He prescribed another week’s worth of antibiotics and gave my mother a week’s worth of Hills canned S/D food.

The dog won’t touch it. My mother asked if she could mix it with some of her old food (Fromm’s Weight management dry) or with plain boiled chicken and the vet said no.

So the dog hasn’t eaten and she vomited up her meds yesterday (probably because of the empty stomach). So I did some research online and apparently Hills S/D is nasty and not well liked/tolerated by dogs. The ingredients are horrible: Water, Corn Starch, Chicken Fat, Pork Liver, Sugar, Egg Product, Powdered Cellulose, Iodized Salt… and the texture is nasty (white chunks that my mother had to add water to just to break it up some (what kind of canned food has a consistency like that?) So my research led to a few forums where people were able to get their dogs to eat Royal Canin SO formula (which is basically the same. The ingredients are slightly better: water, chicken liver, corn grits, pork by-product, chicken, chicknen by-product…).

My mother called up the vet today and asked about changing the food to Royal Canin. He said that their food is terrible. He said that he would allow her to return the unopened Hills cans and wants to try Hills C/D formula. But I’ve read plenty of reviews from people who have the same issue with their dogs not wanting to touch that one either.

I read over the urinalysis taken two weeks ago ans the dog’s pH was high at 7.5 and the protein level was high. WBC and RBC were both high, but that was due to the infection and blood in the urine. It showed 11-20 struvite crystals.

The vet thinks that since it’s the first time that this has happened (she’s two years old) that the crystals could have been attributed to diet rather than genetics. She was on Fromm’s Weight Management dry formula because she’s about 5-10 pounds overweight. Prior to that, she was eating Purina One dry.

The vet seems fixated on using Hills (which is what they sell at their office), and if the dogs eats it, fine. It can help dissolve any remaining crystals. But it doesn’t look like its a complete, well balanced food and not meant to be used for long periods of time.

My vet used to sell Hills for the longest time before changing to Royal Canin.

I don’t think either is very good quality.

Are there any diet (low protein), grain free canned foods that are tolerable? Or supplements to help lower her urine pH?

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic and others.

Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection
Btw: I’d skip the supplements, glucosamine and such. They don’t really help and could contribute to the formation of bladder stones.
Increase water intake and frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate is your best bet, just add water to the kibble of your choice, they lap it up to get to the food.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[anonymous]

Okay.
I hope his appetite improves when his course of antibiotics are over. If he’s not getting at least adequate fluids let the vet know., maybe subq fluids would help?

My dog was on the Royal Canin S/O prescription for several months. I did have to add something to it so he would eat it though,
He had struvite and calcium oxalate. The struvite cleared up right away with treatment. Increased water and frequent bathroom breaks seem to help with all types of bladder stones.
I hope your dog feels better soon..
Peace

[Susan]

To ANON101,
why don’t you check your information before you reply to ANY of my post….
The Royal Canin S/O Urinary is for
: Bacterial Cystitis
: Dissolution of Struvite Uroliths
: Management of RECURRENT Struvite and CALICUM OXALATE Urolithiasis IN OLDER DOGS
The Royal Canin S/O Urinary is for all types of renal problems.

[anonymous]

The dog doesn’t have struvite, he has calcium oxalate.

It’s best if you stick with the recommended prescription diet. Check with your vet before making any changes.
See my above posts “anonymously”

[anonymous]

Have the dogs had senior workups? Lab work? Was it within normal limits?
Give the vet a call and ask that she call you back when she has a minute, I’m sure she won’t mind answering your questions. But, dogs that are inactive tend to have difficulty tolerating rich, high protein, high calorie diets…. See what the vet recommends.

PS: Add a splash of water to meals. Most dogs, especially seniors don’t consume enough water. Offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate, otherwise, certain breeds are vulnerable to develop bladder stones (calcium oxalate and struvite come to mind).

[Lea D]

I brought my 7 year old Corgi to the vet because she was having urinating issues. My vet tested her urine and said she has crystals and a UTI. We put her on antibiotics and on the Hills Science Diet C/D food. A month before my male dog had the same issue and we resolved it the same way. I normally feed my dogs NUTRO™ Limited Ingredient Diet Small Bites Adult Dog Food, they have been on it for 6 years and we love it. Our vet suggested keeping them on the C/D diet permanently, which i do not want to do since outside of the help to remove struvites, it has terrible ingredients that I do not want in their food, such as corn and gluten, and my corgi is food sensitive.

Outside of their food, my dogs get Nutro limited ingredient treats only and my corgi takes Nutramax Cosequin Maximum Strength (DS) Plus MSM tablets every day. My male boxer takes Fluoxetine 20mg daily for anxiety.

Could it be the water of my house that is causing it? My vet says it is strictly diet, so do you have any suggestions as to what to change their food to? I can’t imagine their limited diet food has much in it to cause the issue. Is there a supplement I can add to help reduce crystal risk? I am at a loss to what to change it to. I want their food to be limited diet, without gluten or corn, but to not give them crystals, if the food is indeed what is causing it. Help!

[anonymous]

From a previous post:

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.
“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[anonymous]

Please use the search engine under sign in to look up “bladder stones”. and ” struvite” lots of information there that you may find helpful.

Has he had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.

Add water to the kibble, and also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.

Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.

A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.

/forums/search/bladder+stones/

Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.

[anonymous]

Check the search engine, example: /forums/search/calcium+oxalate/

Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

[anonymous]

I have been doing it (adding water/presoaking kibble) for many years with my vet’s approval, excellent results. Especially if you want to avoid struvite and bladder stones.
I guess it depends on the dog, that’s why it is important to find a vet that you trust and go by his recommendations that are specific to your dog, the dog he has examined, checked annual labs, etc.

[anonymous]

Your dog may have more than 1 type of stones, my dog had both struvite and calcium oxalate, there is a genetic component, some dogs have a predisposition to develop them.
I think the confusion you are having is that you are listening to homeopathic views (the nutritionist) versus the traditional veterinarian. The two will never agree. I prefer science based veterinary medicine. I would be inclined to listen to your vet and do what he recommends, prescription food and all, you can always add something to it with your vet’s approval. Once the dog is stable, you can re-evaluate diet options.

Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/struvite/
Water, water, and more water.
Frequent bathroom breaks. Otherwise, consult a Veterinary Internal Medicine Specialist.
The food can only do so much, most supplements are crap.
The PH strips are a joke, go to your vet every 3 months to check (urine sample).
Even with dietary changes, a change in the PH won’t show up for a month or two (this is what my vet told me).
Also, walk the dog more, get the extra weight off. Two meals a day, measured amounts, no snacks. No free feeding. If need be, 3 small meals per day.
PS: Nothing wrong with prescription dog food. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/07/more-nonsense-from-holistic-vets-about-commercial-therapeutic-diets/

[Tammy I]

I have been dealing with the exact thing. I emailed a dog food nutritionist for the same question and she told me struvite crystals are very hard to disappear and they only get worse and develop into stone. My dog has to have surgery next week my question to her was what kind of dog food do I feed afterward and she told me dog food has nothing to do with UTI and once I get the surgery have the doctor examine the stone to see what it was caused by and then follow up with the antibiotic afterword. It made no sense to me because for hours I have researched what Hills is made of and why it’s prescribed and I read the same thing that Hills does absolutely nothing in some cases it makes it worse. The nutritionist confirmed for me. A UTI is a bacterial infection and has nothing to do with the kind of food they eat although reading so many different opinions still going to find a grain-free dog food at the pet store. Good luck!

[anonymous]

From a previous post:

Increased water, add it to the food is a must, my dog laps it up to get to the food (4 small meals per day). Frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing.
Ask the vet if she has struvite or calcium oxalate stones? Or both? An ultrasound is a good idea.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html
“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.
“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.
“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.
“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Matthew C-
I believe the vet is telling you not to use Vit c or cranberry supplements with the prescription food because it will over acidify the pH of your dog’s urine. That situation could cause the other type of stones. Struvite stones are formed in alkaline urine. The prescription foods help acidify the urine and increase thirst in your pup. More water and moisture as Anon mentioned will help dilute the urine.

Struvite stones in dogs are often associated with infections as you mentioned. One of my cats had a blockage and ended up in the emergency clinic for three days due to Struvite crystals. I now feed him mostly canned food, keep his litterbox clean, and have a water fountain available. I hope you can find something that works also. Good luck!

[anonymous]

Did you check the search engine here? /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Excerpts from previous posts:
As your vet will confirm, dogs that have a tendency to make bladder stones have to be on a special diet the rest of their lives, this is a serious condition and it just doesn’t go away.
I would comply with the prescription food for now.
And don’t forget, water, water, and more water added to the diet. Ask the vet ….but I believe this helps big time. And frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
“My dog had both (struvite and calcium oxalate), no symptoms till the age of 11, started with UTIs. He has had no recurrences in 4 years since his emergency surgery.
“There is a genetic component and some breeds are more prone to bladder stones”.
“Anyway, if you do nothing else, add water and take her out to urinate frequently”.
PS: Soak the kibble, even the prescription food in water overnight in the fridg, add more water prior to serving. Keep the bladder flushed. Maybe add a little canned prescription food as a topper.
Don’t add supplements unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry