[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi wtjham –

A healthy dog should be able to switch foods cold turkey with minimal digestive upset. All three of my dogs eat a homemade raw diet and get something different at each meal, none have any issues. When my oldest dog used to eat kibble I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag (about every 3 weeks) and rotated through different canned food toppers daily with no issues. My newest pup (just turned 7 months old) came to me at 8 weeks on Pro Plan – I switched her to raw cold turkey and she had no problems. To decrease the chances that your pups experience digestive upset you may want to mix in a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and give a probiotic supplement during the first week or so of the switch. Good luck and congrats on the new pups!

[Anonymous]

I need the best cat foods, canned and dry for my cats. I have switched over to the Nature’s Logic dry, they like, and I am still feeding two cans of the pate Fancy Feast a day due to finicky cats. I want to upgrade to a better canned that they will eat, that is key!! and does not cost much more than $1 a can. Only one cat like the Bravo raw, but I couldn’t really afford to go completely raw with the dog on raw. Thank you for any info! Beth

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I just sat and typed a nice long response answering your questions, posted it and it disappeared (so if a duplicate response shows up later that’s why). 🙁

So here it goes again…

I get my meat from several sources. I occasionally buy meat from the grocery store, I order some hard to source items (such as certain organs and green tripe) from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore, I get unwanted meat (usually bone and organs) from hunters (my dad actually gave me a whole deer this year!) – but most of my meat comes from a wholesale distributor that supplies restaurants, grocery stores and large dog kennels. I have to order from the distributor in 300 lb. shipments but it’s worth it – I pay about half the price I’d pay at the grocery store. As for fish – be very careful! Certain types of fish can carry a parasite that causes salmon poisoning in dogs if the fish is fed raw (and no, it’s not just salmon that can carry this parasite). I rarely feed raw fish, occasionally I’ll feed raw sardines because I know they’re a safe fish but that’s about it.

To answer your question about organ meat – organ meat is as high, if not higher in protein than muscle meat. However, organ meat should only make up 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other organs. Organ meat is extremely nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to include in the dogs’ diet to supply certain vitamins and minerals, but the levels are so high that too much organ meat can be toxic. Keep in mind – green tripe, gizzards and heart are NOT organ meat (some people make the mistake of thinking they are, so I wanted to clarify to make sure you understood) and can be fed as muscle meat. Organ meat would include: liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, lungs and brain.

I wouldn’t feel too bad about not being able to get pre-made raw – I think homemade is much higher quality and you’re able to feed more variety and have better control over the ingredients. Formulating menus – while time consuming – has actually gotten fun for me, I think I’d get bored feeding pre-made! Here’s a link to some typical menus that I’d serve to my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I love Carlson’s products – I think they make some of the highest quality fish oils. I give my dogs their cod liver oil a few times a week for extra vitamin d – I wouldn’t feed most cod liver oils due to excessive vitamin a and Carlson’s is the only one I’ve found without excessive levels.

I get my meat from several sources. I do buy meat from the grocery store on occasion (Be VERY careful with buying fish – depending on the type of fish and where it came from it could have salmon poisoning. I personally don’t feed raw fish very often – occasionally raw sardines, but that’s it.), I occasionally order from hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com (I can get a lot of difficult to find offal from these places), I get unwanted parts (usually offal and bones) from hunters (I actually got my dad to give me a whole deer this year 😉 ) – but mostly I get meat delivered from a wholesale distributor. I order shipments of 300 lbs. at a time from a wholesaler that also sells to grocery stores, restaurants and caters to large dog kennels – I can get a lot of the stuff I need (chicken backs, turkey necks, hearts, gizzards, livers, ground beef, etc.) for about half of what I’d pay in the grocery store. The only downside to buying in bulk is everything just comes in huge 40 lb. boxes – I have to divide it all up myself, but it’s worth it considering how much money I save.

To answer your question about offal – offal i very high in protein, about the same amount if not more than muscle meat. Organ meat should only constitute 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other offal. Organ meat is VERY nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to feed in order to provide adequate amounts of certain vitamins and minerals but it’s easy to go overboard. Many of the vitamins and minerals found in organ meat, while necessary in small amounts, can be toxic if fed in large amounts. For example, liver is extremely high in vitamin a – vitamin a is a fat soluble vitamin so extremely high levels fed over an extended period of time can cause toxicity. Remember green tripe, heart and gizzards are NOT organ meat – a lot of people think these things are organ meat, but they’re not and the amount fed of these things doesn’t have to be restricted (like it does with true organ meat). The things that would count toward your dogs’ 10% organ meat would be: liver, kidneys, lungs, pancreas, spleen and brain.

I wouldn’t be too upset that you can’t get Darwin’s or other pre-made raw foods – homemade is much higher quality, more customizable and you can feed more variety. It is time-consuming to make food from scratch, but I’ve gotten to where I think it’s fun to formulate new menus – I would get bored feeding pre-made. If you check out this link you’ll be able to see some typical menus for my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dr. Mike –

This is a great question and I think it will make for a great discussion as everyone’s criteria are so different.

First off, in answering it for myself, I’m going to assume we’re looking for dry dog foods – otherwise I, obviously, would give preference to raw foods.

1) The first thing I look at it protein content. I won’t typically consider a food with under 35% protein – however if the food fell between 30% and 34% but had several other exemplary qualities I may make an exception (I would never go under 30% though).

2) I then look at fat content. I typically like dry foods with at least 15% fat (I feed much higher fat levels with raw, but dry foods are generally fairly low in fat).

3) I then look at ingredients. I always want a meat ingredient first – no exceptions. I prefer a fresh meat followed by at least one meat meal – but I would not rule out an otherwise good food if it only contains meat meals. Although there are some exceptions, I typically won’t feed a food that contains by-products. I never feed a food that contains any unnamed animal ingredients – such as animal fat, animal digest or animal by-products. I won’t feed foods with grains and look, instead, for foods that use potato, tapioca, legumes or pseudo-grains (or some combination of these) as a binder. Other ingredients that I look for and would not feed to my animals are: chemical preservative (such as BHA), menadione, artificial colorings, propylene glycol or any sort of sugar (sugar, molasses, honey, etc.). I also prefer to see a short list of added vitamins, minerals and amino acids – this tells me that much of the nutrition is derived from the ingredients in the food itself and there’s less reliance on synthetic supplements.

4) I then look at the company. I won’t rule out a company if it’s had recalls, but I do take into consideration how many recalls the company has had, how far apart they were and how the company handled the recalls. I like a company that is open about where they source their ingredients and that doesn’t source from China. I typically call or email the company’s customer service before feeding a food and if either a) I don’t get a response b) the customer service rep seems knowledgeable c) customer service is rude or d) I get the impression the company is giving me the run around when I ask a question – I will not feed the food.

[marmaduke]

Thanks Hound Dog Mom!!

I have sourced frozen beef offal (liver, kidneys, heart liver etc.) from a local butcher and he said that he will save me the beef necks from his kill days, I have also ordered the Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes for Pets (until I can get some fresh or frozen green tripe) and have started the boys on the Carlson’s Very Finest Fish Oil and a Vitamin E supplement @ 400UI per day, I have also sourced frozen raw chicken backs, necks and pkgs of chicken hearts, gizzards, liver…based on my previous menu with the veggie/fruit slop and the ground raw chicken with bones…what would you suggest for a menu? Do you buy ground beef and fish from the grocery store?

Does the beef offal on it’s own provide enough protein or does it have to be mixed with a meat source?

I live in Ontario Canada so the products like Darwin’s Naturals are pretty much out of the question as they are only in the States…

I really want to keep my Goldens on a RAW diet as I feel it is a much healthier diet for them compared to the store bought kibbles and even the “premium” brands providing I can provide them with the nutrition they require to be a healthy happy animal (they are pretty healthy and happy now, but I worry about not feeding them correctly)…

Thanks for all your advice…

Duke

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, I subscribe as well. They have lots of good info. and articles to read. Their dry food reviews are done in Feb. I believe, but I can’t remember when they do their canned and raw food reviews. It’s not the only thing I use when deciding canine things, though. I use other sites/publications, too, but I believe it’s well worth it.

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Marie-

A few things-Rescues often have nasty dry or oily skin/coat until they have been on a better diet for a few months-sometimes they even blow coat and start to look naked.. But, once the coat starts to regrow, its usually a healthy coat. Dogs with dental disease often rub at their faces because of the rotting teeth which of course hurt. Poor girlie.

Once her mouth heals(usually 10-14 days) you can add dry in, but soak it a bit. Most actually can eat the kibble once the pain is gone. I have two rescue with no teeth and they not only eat dry, but one still “chews” a rawhide bone : )

The bathing should help the dry skin as the groomer will(should) use a heavy conditioner, but one treatment may not be enough to remove all the dry skin. I find that briskly rubbing them helps to move the dry skin into the hair, and then frequent brushing(soft bristle brush) removes the dead skin cells from the coat. We also supplement these ones with fish oil etc, but that helps control further issues, but does not resolve the current one-

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marmaduke –

I give my dogs 1 tsp. of an animal based omega 3 (sardine oil or anchovy oil generally) and 1 tsp. of a plant based fat (flax, evening primrose, borage or sometimes sprouted chia or coconut oil). I split 2-400 i.u. vitamin e capsules between the three of them – so that would be about 267 i.u. each per day. For a large dog anywhere between 100 and 400 i.u. per day should be adequate, however I wouldn’t go over 400 i.u. per day. I have large dogs, since you have golden retrievers that are probably around the same size as mine these doses should be fine for your dogs.

[Anonymous]

thank you for the input! My pom did not get sick from her food. One incident I think was too many rawhides at a friends house and another was frosty paws treats. So I am VERY careful now what I feed her.

I think I’ve chosen to go with the Acana brand. They have a high rating and I like what they have to say about the source of their ingredients. But no one in my area carries the small breed or light and trim choice. I bought a bag of the grasslands variety and will slowly work it into her diet. She seemed to like the Acana last night. She picked out the few pieces that were in her bowl and ate those first!

I’m eager to see if there are improvements in her weight and energy!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Betsy!

I don’t have an issue with quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth or millet. These are actually “pseudo-grains” (not true grains) and they’re all gluten free. I would have no issue with feeding Nature’s Logic (in fact my cats eat Nature’s Logic) but I would not feed the Mulligan’s Stew for a few reasons: 1) too low in protein, 2) too low in fat, 3) contains cane molasses (sugar!), 4) oats are often contaminated with gluten, 5) rice, as we know, can be contaminated with arsenic and this contains brown rice which is said to be higher in arsenic than white rice. I also don’t have an issue with sprouted grains of any sort. I recently started including sprouted grains in my dogs’ raw food occasionally – the sprouting processes eliminates all the bad things grains are known for (lectins and phytic acid, etc.).

[pugmomsandy]

mspaulypompom,

What food(s) did you try that resulted in bad diarrhea? How much were you feeding as compared to what you were previously feeding? Do you go by calories? Or were you feeding the same amount of previous food as you were the new foods? Has your pom been eating a variety of foods or just mostly one kind most of her life? And what has she been eating and how much? Have you used any probiotics or other digestive aids (canned pumpkin, digestive enzymes, yogurt, raw goat milk)?

I have lap dogs. They do absolutely nothing but follow me around! But they eat foods that have at least 30% protein and moderate fat. This includes kibble, canned, raw, freeze dried and dehydrated. They are able to maintain a steady weight but more importantly, they maintain a good body condition score. Keep in mind pugs are short, cobby, thick dogs, but they still have an abdominal tuck, a tapered waist viewed from above and not much fat pad. They will never look like a greyhound but for pugs they are in great shape. Weight is not everything. In fact mine are overweight to obese if you just look at the number (24 lbs). I’ve recently put some photos in the Dog Food Calculator section while discussing weight loss and body condition with another poster in December. Check them out. They’ve actually gained weight and muscle mass on this type of diet. These are my overweight pugs: (click on the photo)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_2852640x539_zps1c019b19.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/plutoharness2_zps6d5c006c.jpg

I didn’t know about probiotics and digestive enzymes a couple years ago when I went to a grain free high protein food so one of mine took maybe 2 months to transition. Had soft poop but no diarrhea. But now that I’ve been using probiotics and enzymes (periodically still) they are able to eat anything and have formed stool. Their gut has become healthier over time and they are able to eat a variety of foods as they should. I also feed less volume of a mod/high protein food. On their old food, they would’ve needed 1 cup to 1.25 cups but right now they only get 2/3 cup. Overfeeding a mod/high protein food can be another reason for poor stools (that and a not healthy gut) or transitioning too fast. If they have undesirable stool, cut back the amount of new food until they firm up. No need to transtition a dog in a week or 10 days.

Also you can start your pom on a moderate protein grain free diet instead of going high protein off the bat like EVO. I’ll use Nutrisource Heartland Select and Grain Free Lamb Meal as examples. They are 25% and 28% protein and my fosters eat it and only take a week to transition to it cold turkey. No diarrhea, just some soft stools initially. I also give them ground psyllium in the beginning. And I have no idea what the fosters have been eating their entire life before coming to my house.

As far as more energy goes, I like to think of it as more vitality.

[pugmomsandy]

Marmaduke,

I give krill oil capsule or a raw whole sardine.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

HoundDogMom has the E dosage in the Raw Menus thread I think.

[marmaduke]

What do you feed for an animal based Omega 3 and vitamin E supplement? I was going to give the boys an Omega 3 fish oil with vitamin E gel cap with their meals…how much to give them? I have read that for a 50lb dog, approx. 400-500 UI or 350mg per day…

Also, what do you give for fish as a protein instead of chicken?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Check out the raw food thread. All three of my bloodhounds – ages 7 yrs, 2 yrs, and 6 mos. – are on a homemade raw diet. I have several of my recipes posted in the forum and there are also some links to some informative websites and some reading suggestions from myself and others.

[Mrs4444]

Thanks for the share, HDM–I’m intrigued by the idea of feeding raw food. Hm…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Beth –

Cutting it up while it’s still frozen or partially frozen is fine. If the chub is small enough that he’ll eat it within 3 days though, you can just thaw the entire thing and keep it in the fridge.

[Anonymous]

I bought the long chub of Bravo Balance that are complete. It doesn’t explain clearly how to cut that up, I have in fridge right now and in about 2 hours I am going to try to cut into the patties with the electric knife and put in baggies and back into freezer. Is that what you do? THanks! Beth

[pugmomsandy]

My vet suggested vit c to help with urine acidity. I started giving Garden of Life Raw C. One daily along with increasing protein intake.

[Mom2Cavs]

I would second HDM….The Honest Kitchen is a “wet” diet after it’s hydrated and I think its ingredients are stellar! I would use it, but my crew just doesn’t like the “garlicy” smell of it. Like I said before, I use canned and freeze dried raw that’s been rehydrated for extra moisture.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi risuchan –

If the two foods you are considering are The Honest Kitchen and Flint River Ranch I would DEFINITELY go with The Honest Kitchen. THK is one of only two pet foods that are certified human-grade and it’s minimally processed (much more species-appropriate than kibble). I fed two of my dogs a rotation of Love, Zeal, Embark and Thrive for about 6 months before switching them to a raw diet – it’s a great food. FRR is mediocre and incredibly overpriced for what it is – with FRR you’re paying a premium price for a mid-grade food, THK is expensive too but at least with THK you get what you pay for.

[Mom2Cavs]

First, let me say that I’m not a vet. But, I would suggest a visit to your vet to determine the type of crystals and to see if there is an infection present. There are different types of crystals and treatments vary. Struvite crystals seem to form if there is an infection, but Oxalate crystals are a different matter. There are also other types. One thing is certain, though, and that a dog that is prone to uti’s or crytals needs lots of moisture in the diet. Moisture is actually good in any animal’s diet, imho. If I were you, after speaking to my vet, I would check into 4-5 star, high quality foods. Whether you feed all canned, regular raw or freeze dried raw that’s been rehydrated, or kibble topped with wet food of sime kind (either of the above mentioned or wholesome people food) moisture is necessary to help flush out the kidneys. If you feed only kibble, then I would still add water or no-sodium/low-sodium broth to it. There are also supplements that might help with urinary issues like cranberry, vit. C, omega 3’s etc. Again, I would ask your vet for recommendations. There are also regular posters here that have had dogs with kidney issues from birth that may post with some great suggestions. Good luck to you and I hope this helps!

[Hound Dog Mom]

HPP stands for “high pressure processing.”

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/10/22/sterile-raw-pet-food.aspx

[Anonymous]

I have not tried the green tripe in the raw, that is a good idea, thank you. What are the HPP, I probably knew once but can’t remember. Beth

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Beth –

I’m glad to hear Butch is doing better. Of the brands of pre-made raw available to you I would recommend Primal (red meat varieties only) or Bravo. Nature’s Variety Instinct, the poultry varieties
of Primal and Stella and Chewy’s are all HPP (which I’m not convinced is a good thing..). None of them are bad, but the red meat Primal and Bravo would just be my first choices. Have you tried mixing green tripe into his old food? Green tripe usually entices dogs to eat.

[Anonymous]

Butch, who had the strange thing come on him like the hemolytic anemia but was according to vet possibly autoimmune disease, is doing so well now. At first all he wanted was his the Billinghurst’s diet BARF, he had eaten for 2 years. Now he acts like he doesn’t like it. I have tried Nature’s Variety raw, the chicken, and he loved. I also wanted to know what you all thought of the raw’s available to me at pet store, Nature’s Variety, Bravo, Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I also feed a back up dry, Optimal Performance or Epigen from Wysong to help with the cost of raw. Thank you for any advice. Beth

[Hound Dog Mom]

There’s no reason you can’t mix proteins. However I prefer to serve only one protein at each meal, then the dogs aren’t getting exposed to the same ingredients at every meal and their bodies can have a break from certain foods.

[marmaduke]

We are NOT cooking the veggie/fruit mixture….the RAWR diet book that we have been following does not say to cook the mixture…we do puree it in a food processor though.

I can also get a beef dog food mix from the same butcher as the green tripe…I beleive it is a mixture of beef “parts”…

Can the chicken and beef be mixed together? Right now they get 1 cup of chicken per serving twice a day…can we do 1/2 cup f the beef and 1/2 cup of the chicken or would that be a cross contamination? Would it be better to feed a serving of chicken and a serving of beef?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marmaduke –

Are you cooking the fruit/veggie mix? Dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzyme required to digest the cellulose in the plant material) so fruits/vegetables should be cooked and pureed in order to break down the cellulose. There’s no trick to preparing green tripe, you jut feed it. Tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 so you can feed as much as you want. I think feeding your chicken mix as one meal and tripe as the other would be a good idea.

[marmaduke]

Ok, did some research and I do beleive that the lack of digestive enzymes is probably the main cause of the gas and stool munching. 😛 I have seen some undigested “slop” in their stools as well, which leads me to beleive that they are not processing their food completely.

I have sourced some green tripe from a local butcher who kills beef…I can purchase 20lbs for $10…I cannot find how much to give them per feeding though…the only thing I have been able to find is an approximation of 5-10% of their protein weight per serving. Any thoughts or suggestion on how much green tripe to feed them? Also, is there any trick to preparing the tripe?

There are a couple of products on the market that I have found that are enzyme supplements…Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes and another is Prozyme All Natural Enzyme Suupplement. The 1st seems like it is more animal based (Betaine HCl, Ox Bile Extract, Bromelain (pineapple), Papain (papaya), Pancreatin which includes Protease, Mylase and Lipase) and the 2nd is plant based looking at the ingredients (Lactose, Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product dehydrated, Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dehydrated, pineapples (stem,fruit).

We do include Pineapple in their “slop” mixture, but I guess it does not fully constitute the lack of digestive enzymes that they need.

Thoughts?

[aimee]

Hi Matt
Like others I think most people who want to feed a vegetarian diet to their dog do so because they themselves are vegetarian. I do though recall vegetarian diets sometimes being rec. for Dalmatians to prevent stone formation. My own dog was raised on a meatless diet because of a liver condition.

Dogs do not have any requirements that can not be met by plants so it is possible to have a dog be a vegetarian and thrive. By blending plant proteins there is no reason why the full AA complement can not be met. BUT where my concern comes in is are the commercial vegetarian diets always adequate?? Is the dog getting out of the diet what it needs to? Considering that not to long ago there was a problems found with lamb and rice diets leading to heart problems, I always keep in the back of my mind that what a dog gets out of a diet may not be what we think it does. That applies to all diets, not just vegetarian diets but there is less margin for error in a vegetarian diet.

As far as your customers, if you advocate against vegetarian foods they may just go elsewhere so as to “avoid the lecture”. If this is what they have chosen then it may be best for you to advise them how they can best do it, just as you would advise someone how to feed a raw diet properly instead of saying “don’t feed raw”. For me that means rotating companies and protein sources often so that if one company diet is deficient the others may make up for it. Advise them to use diets made by large companies with nutritionists on staff, that do feeding trials (Purina, Royal Canin), vs a small company with “a vision”. Inquire if they are looking for vegan vs vegetarian. ( Is a diet that is based in egg /dairy acceptable in their rotation?) JMO but I think your customers would be better served by sharing concerns and helping them make good choices vs just advising against a vegetarian diet.

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Marmaduke,

You may want to check out this video posted by Dr. Karen Becker for some answers to your dog’s problem. Hope this helps.

[pugmomsandy]

More probiotics and digestive enzymes and maybe your butcher can get you some green tripe.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-stink-on-tripe/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

The first thing I would recommend is having the dog checked by the vet – occasionally stool eating can be due to intestinal malabsorption or intestinal parasites. If medical causes are ruled out I’d supplement with a quality enzyme and probiotic supplement. Some dogs don’t secrete enough enzymes naturally so they consume feces because feces are rich in enzymes – although enzyme deficiencies are more common when dogs are on processed food diets. Enzymes can help with gas as well. You could look into a supplemental stool eating deterrent – but check the label as most contain MSG. The other thing I wanted to point out is that you should not be feeding only chicken – this is not enough variety and your dogs will not be getting all the nutrients they need. Ideally, an even mix of red meat and poultry should be fed. At the very least I’d recommend alternating chicken with beef but the more different meats you can feed the better. While flax is a good addition to poultry based meals, you need an animal-based omega 3 as dogs don’t convert plant-based omega 3’s to DHA very efficiently. Lastly you need to add some vitamin e – this diet provides no vitamin e. Hope that helps!

[marmaduke]

forgot to mention that i also add approx. a tablespoon of Flaxseed Oil to their food each meal as well and 400mg of glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM in a 500/400/400mg tablet.

[marmaduke]

We have been following the Going RAWR dog food diet for awhile now and our 2 Golden Retreivers will NOT stop eating their (and our 10 year old Lab/Border Collie Mix’s) own and each other’s poop and one of the Golden’s has gas constantly.

They are just over a year now and we have had them on the RAWR diet since they were approx. 4 months old.

We feed them ground raw chicken for dogs from our local butcher and a recipe for a vegetable/fruit slop and raw chicken hearts or liver.

The veggie/fruit slop contains: romaine lettuce, celery, beets, carrots, squash, bananas, oranges, apples, pineapple, kelp powder, whole eggs (including the shell) and plain yogurt.

Their daily meals are:

Morning – 1cup raw chicken meat, 1/2cup veggie slop, 2 raw chicken hearts or liver.
Evening – same as above.

ANY suggestions on how to cure the poop eating behaviour or the gas, I would certainly appreciate it!!

I am even considering going back to a dry kibble…tried several “premium” brands (Acana, Fromm) and found them to be gassy on them as well…maybe they were too rich?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Congrats on the new family member! 🙂

Amierican Bulldogs would be considered a large breed, so you should feed them as such. Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit would be a wonderful choice for your new pup – the calcium levels are right where they should be. All three of my dogs now eat a raw diet, but my oldest used to eat kibble and I used Nature’s Variety Instinct in my rotation frequently – he loved the food and did well on it. All of Nature’s Variety Instinct foods are approved for “All Life Stages” meaning that they meet the nutrition requirements of any age dog – puppy right through to senior. Any 4 or 5 star canned food would make a great topper – as long as you’re only using a little canned to mix with the dry you shouldn’t need to worry about calcium levels too much. My only other suggestion would be to pick at least one or two other dry foods to rotate with – rotational feeding is much healthier than feeding the same food continuously and if you get your new pup accustomed to rotational feeding while he is young it will be easier to change foods later on. If you check out the “Diet and Health Issues” forum and go to the sticky “Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition” topic you’ll find a list with other 4 and 5 star grain-free foods that would be a good choice for your pup.

[billhill]

/dog-food-reviews/natures-variety-dog-food-raw-frozen/

Try this link.

[patvl246]

I supplement my Mastiffs raw diet with Natures Variety Instinct Raw Boost Venison and Lamb. Are there any recent reviews on this particular kibble

[DieselJunki]

On Friday I will be getting an American Bull Dog puppy. He was born on 11.23.2012

Now I have been researching dog nutrition as I always believe in feeding my animals the best of the best no matter the cost. I travel quite a bit for work and although I would love to feed raw it is just not in the picture so a good kibble will have to suffice with some wet mixed in on occasion.

I believe I have found the food that I believe to be right. I had found a link here that talked about the calcium levels in the foods and based my decision of the review and the amount of calcium.

Natures Variety Instinct: Rabbit. It had a good review aside from having canola oil in it. Calcium per the list that I found on here is 1.12%, 3.34 g./1,000 kcal.

My question is is this ok for a puppy to eat? American Bull Dogs are pretty much a large breed right? I do want to be sure to watch my calcium levels here?

[sisu]

I have a 7 year old who is a spinal walking paraplegic. He has no feeling from the waist down. He can walk due to muscle memory which 10-15% of dogs maintain. There is limited bladder and bowel control. Although the conditions are different our goals in waste management may be the same.

Grain inclusive foods result in big fluffy poop. Grain free with the highest meat content and lowest carbs give the best results when feeding kibble. With a balanced raw diet there is barely any waste. Therefore, the poop is very small, ring finger to little finger size. If Prey Model Raw (PMR) is not an option consider premade raw with the highest meat content. After 5 years of trial and error I have found that EVO Herring and Salmon kibble works very well. As almost a contradiction to my high meat, low carb, low fiber rule Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon also results in small size poop. I suspect it may be due to the digestibility of the menhaden fish meal. Of the two brands EVO poop is smaller. Some companies will send free samples. Use the contact link on their websites to make the request.

I feed as close to 6 am and 6 pm as possible. There are very few treats given. Rewards are enthusiastic chin scratches and lots of happy, verbal praise. By restricting the frequency of food going in I can predict that poop will happen an hour to and hour and a half after each meal. Exercise will cause him to poop sooner rather than later. Anal stimulation either by lightly touching around the outside of the anus or using a KY jelly lubricated thermometer inserted into the rectum with some slight movement will cause him to poop a couple of hours sooner than expected. Although I have rarely used either of these methods they are useful for getting things back on schedule. If used frequently poop on demand becomes the schedule rather than allowing his natural digestion to establish a schedule.

Below is a list of meat protein in various brands of kibble that I have collected from the ‘net. I have not fed these brands. Although I trust the sources of the information I cannot guarantee it.

Dr. Tim’s Momentum 35/25, 96%
Native Level 4, 35/25, 93%
Diamond Extreme Athlete, 93%
Inukshuk 32/32, 95%
Annamet should be 90+%. Specific amt. is not known.
Orijen 82%
Horizon Legacy 80%
Instinct 70%.
Merrick grain free 70%

I am unsure if the constant leg movement your boy has are muscle spasms. If so, daily muscle massage of the legs and along the spine similar to Tellington Touch, gentle repetitive bicycle movement, and flexing the leg joints and toes may help. All is done slowly. Stop if there is a spasm. Resume when the muscles relax. After 2 years of daily massage/flexing therapy Connor has no spasms.

If your dog is being treated by a general vet I would suggest a visit to a veterinary neurologist or neurosurgeon. Not for surgery but to evaluate and treat the current condition. For example, there is medication that can help with muscle spasms. Also, if it is in the budget, professional physical therapy can help with lingering issues. If the carts were not professionally fitted a neurologist or physical therapist may be able to resolve the current problems.

If interested in raw feeding:
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf

The Paralysis: Neurological and IVDD forum is very helpful and informative.
http://www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/

I hope some of this helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi momtopoms –

Fruits and vegetables really aren’t absolutely necessary if everything else in the diet is balanced and the Nature’s Logic supplement does have some freeze-dried fruits and vegetables in it, so this would probably be enough. However, some other options that you could try:

1) Wysong has a supplement called “Wild Things” – it’s a powder made of freeze-dried fruits, vegetables and super greens: http://www.wysong.net/products/wildthings-dog-cat-supplement.php

2) Essex Cottage Farms has a supplement called “Garden Vegetables”, also a freeze-dried powder: http://www.efarms.cc/Products%20Page.htm

3) Nature’s Farmacy has a whole food supplement called “Cornucopia” and 3 tbs. is the equivalent of a pound of fresh fruits and vegetables: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/store/details.php?prodId=321&category=

Also, if your dog doesn’t mind pills you could also consider fruit and vegetable concentrate pills made for humans (just read the ingredients list carefully to make sure there is nothing toxic to dogs – such as onions or grapes). There are many different brands that make these, but some I can think of off the top of my head that would be safe for dogs would be Puritan’s Pride 10 Vegetable Multiplex, Wysong’s Salad and Schiff’s Fruit & Vegetable tablets.

[momtopoms]

Hello

I started feeding commercial raw a year and a half ago after finding this site. I have used NV, Primal,Darwin’s and Stella and Chewys. When I rotated back to Darwin’s in November, my poms would not touch it. I bought Dr. Becker’s book and the e books from Whole Dog Journal so I could make my own. The issue I am having is getting my female Pom to eat the vegetable mixes. I made the ones in Dr. Becker’s book and she will eat the meat but if a add just a little veg mix she refuses. I also tried THK Preference. She prefers NV raw over all the other brands. Should I rotate in NV and not force her to eat the homemade with the veg mixes. How often would she need the NV? I also add NL All Food Fortifier. Would that be enough? I just started ordering from Hare Today and they all like the grinds I have tried so far. I also have Brothers on hand in case I am short on time since I work at a hospital and have to go in at strange hours with short notice. Any help would be appreciated.

Susan

[InkedMarie]

There is no rice bran in it now, the ingredient pdf even say no rice.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, it’s Jan lol. I didn’t use it for long, but the dogs did fine on it and liked it. The nuggets were smaller than NV or Primal. It does have some rice bran in it, or did when I used it, and that seems strange for a raw food imho. It came in a bigger bag and if I remember was cheaper in the long run than the others. My vet, who carries it, actually feeds his Goldens NV Prairie and Steve’s. I didn’t use it often because my vet is 45-50 mins. from home and I only bought it if I was going there. I can get Primal and NV closer to home. With all that said, I don’t use regular raw anymore. I like the freeze dried because my daughter and husband (rarely) can help out with feeding because they are more comfortable using the FD. I add water to it and rehydrate it. I tried using The Honest Kitchen and Grandma Lucy’s but the dogs prefer the Primal and Stella & Chewy’s much more. I’m gonna pick up some Vital Essentials today to add to the mix, though it seems to be the most expensive of all.

[InkedMarie]

hi Mom2Cavs (is it Jan??)
thank you for responding! It turns out the in state place that carried Answers does not any longer so that is not an option. My dogs didn’t like the NV and Primal is more costly than Darwins and I’d have to drive over an hour, one way, to pick it up.
What can you tell me about Steve’s?

[Mom2Cavs]

I’ve fed Primal and NV, and also Steve’s Real Food. My vet carries NV and Steve’s. I like Primal and Steve’s better than NV. Currently, though, I’m using the Freeze Dried versions of Primal, NV (sometimes when I can find it), and Stella & Chewy’s. I know it’s not as good as the regular raw, but it’s doable in this household and I like it alot, lol.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m sorry to hear about your Cav. Sadly, I just lost my 12 year old Blenheim girl, Stella, to SM. 🙁 I think that feeding an all can diet, as long as the canned food is labeled “complete and balanced” and not for supplemental feeding only, is perfectly fine. In fact, it’s really a lot better than feeding a total dry diet. It’s a little closer to being a species appropriate diet, at least. I feel most people don’t use canned, and use dry, simply because it can be cost prohibitive to use, especially with multiple dog households. If you can afford it, it really is better than dry. Some people also feed a raw diet. I prefer premade raw. There are lots of good brands to choose from. If raw is not for you, then there are the freeze dried formulas and rehydrate them. This is what I’m using now, although I do feed kibble and canned with them. I’m using Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, and have some Vital Essentials coming. Canned food contains moisture, which is also great for the dog. Again, I’m sorry your pup is experiencing this. Our breed, as a whole, is burdened with these illnesses and it’s so sad. If I were you, I’d pick some 4-5 star grain free canned food and contact the companies to see what the sodium level is in them and go from there. I have 2 other Cavs at home, both females….Hazel (Black & Tan) and Laverne (Ruby). Hazel has a grade 2 murmur, but so far, Laverne is fine. Actually they’re both doing very well, atm. They both share the same birthday, lol, and Hazel will be 6 this August and Laverne will be 8. Good luck to you with your little one!

[pugmomsandy]

A raw diet will result in smaller, solid, less stinky waste! My raw fed dog’s stool is probably around the size of a nickel – or like small bird eggs.

[InkedMarie]

A feed store not too far away is selling Answers; HDM likes it but have you fed it? Anyone else? What about Steve’s real food? Anyone feed that?
I’m looking at all options, beside Darwins. Mine love it and I think it’s the best pre made out there but it’s so costly. We have a new dog coming this weekend and I’d really like to have all three on a pre made for one meal.