Marrow is very high in fat, so it could be that too. My JRT only gets the marrow bones after the other dogs have eaten most of the marrow. I usually give rib bones to her. I get mutton and goat ribs from Hare Today.
It was a beautiful day outside today and so I decided to lay out some dog pads and give the girls a Darwin’s Raw Marrow bone and 10 min after they were really into it Sally my tricolored chihuahua went across the yard and started throwing up so I took hers away and put it back up. The other three chewed on the marrow bone all excited and now 3hrs later runny poop everywhere and my one with intestinal allergies is bloated very bad š It looks to me we found the intestinal allergy protein to avoid with her. Just a few minutes a go (4hrs after the marrow bones) one of my other chihuahuas was in our bed and started heaving to throw up so I grabbed her and put her in the floor in time for her to throw up. It is looking like beef is not our best friend. Has anyone else had this issue? 3 out of the four of our dogs ate at least 1/2 the marrow out of the bone, did they maybe eat too much in one sitting? I know it seems I keep having issues with things introduced to my dogs but I am so frustrated with trying things that in some way keep back firing and causing my dogs more painful issues. They have no problem with the raw Darwin’s turkey meals so the only thing I can figure is that its because it is beef?
My dog with yeast, grain intolerance, and IBS issues got probiotics and enzymes with his raw and kibble until he was no longer showing symptoms for a while. Now he gets them a few times a week like the other dogs. I’m like Sandy, I feed whatever I grab out of the freezer. I do make a point of not putting the same stuff side by side in the freezer. My dogs get a different raw every day, but when I started, I fed beef for a week and then added in chicken, then turkey and pork. Now I feed about 8 different proteins, but I make sure I feed fish once a week, tripe once a week, and raw meaty bones two or three times a week.
You don’t have to add pro/zymes to raw food. I would just add it to the kibble meal. It looks like you serve a variety of kibble so alternating the raw flavors would seem to make sense as well. I use fish oil (not regularly) and hold it if giving sardines. I give various raw foods as well with no particular rotation. Whatever I grab out of the freezer is what they get!
Hi everyone!
I look here all the time – and have learned a lot…but I have a few questions.
I bought Bravo Balance chicken, Natures Variety beef patties and chicken patties.
The reason for two proteins ( chic.) is because it’s an hour drive…and its all she had.
Next time I’d like to get duck or something besides chicken.
Do I add probiotics and enzymes to the raw food? Will be feeding raw for breakfast and Fromms, Wellness , Earthborn kibble and NV canned along with eggs, sardines and such in evevings.
How do I rotate the raw foods. Bravo for a few days, then the beef then the chicken?
I was at health store and saw Enzymes from the NOW product. Should I buy that one?
Also saw Barleans omega 3 fish oil in sardine,macherel & anchovy. Should I buy that?
Please tell me what all I need to purchase.
Thanks!
When I decided to go grain free with my dogs I chose a food that was similar to what I was feeding but slightly better and switched to that then found another food that was slightly better and switched to that and then switched to the food that I really wanted. Sometimes a big jump in quality is hard for them to handle too.
Thanks for the advice I will look for good ingredients and not worry so much about the fat and try to transition him over to a grain free food and try some probiotics and enzymes
Does your dog have a problem that makes you limit fat other than gaining weight easily? As long as the fat % is no more than about 1/2 the protein % I wouldn’t consider the food to be high fat. Whether you need to take the fat level into account depends on how much of it you are feeding and if your dog has any health problems that limit the amount of fat he should get.
You say he does not do well on grain free foods. Some dogs that have been on the same food long term have trouble switching because their body has acclimated to the food that it has always had and they actually have to grow the normal gut bacteria back or in different proportions than what the old food would support. Many dogs need a little extra support during transition in the form of probiotics and digestive enzymes.
Ox tail is great and yes you can freeze it.
I know you don’t mean no disrespect Marie, I was trying to replace a can food that I did not like one ingredient in it and probably jumped the gun. I thought I was going about it slow which is why they only got 1 tsp each. I am not feeding kibble anymore but just wanted a little extra for the girls and that is the reason for the can food. I think what I will do is just do the raw twice a day and in between the feedings give them a marrow bone to chew on. Probably best if the least Variety right now I give them the better since they are so sensitive to change. We do transition slow so we don’t have that issue but from what Darwin’s told me a tsp of food is really not enough to make a dogs system react like that unless it just plain did not agree with them. I need to just stick to Raw. Thanks for your reply š
We have been on Darwin’s since March 14th and just stopped the Brothers Allergy kibble about 3-4 days ago so my main concern is the acid reflux and I am trying to narrow that down. We were on Brothers for 8 months and itching did not stop nor yeasty smell on the skin and acid reflux and they would not eat the Brothers without can food mixed with it so really I have not switched foods a lot.
Thanks Sandy I will look there today. I was at Walmart yesterday and only saw Ox tail? I wasn’t sure about it so I didn’t get any but it was a great price for so many and they were the perfect size and I did not know if I could freeze them.
Hello guys,
My beloved pet died last week ,I am deadly missing her ,Just wondering to know a good artist that can draw a portrait from photos of my cat.Please recommend me asap.Thanks.
Hand painted portraits from photos
NectarMom,
I found small marrow bones at Kroger. 1 inch to 1.5 inches in length and about 3 inches across.
I am looking to add more moisture to my dogs diet he’s been eating Natures Variety Prarie Dry he does not do well on grain free foods. I want to add canned to his diet or a premade raw for variety and a little more protein without all the extra fat. I cannot decipher these canned labels ( I try but am not very successful) I would like to have something in the mid-fat range hes a shih tzu and gains weight very easily. The canned food reviews Ive been looking at are 20% and higher do I need to worry about the fat levels if it is not his main diet ? Even the 4 star foods are really high in fat. Am I missing something, I would feed him canned all the time if I could figure out how not to turn him into a blimp in doing so I know canned/raw is a healthier option for him. Any advice to alleviate my confusion would be helpful Thanks
Weruva did not work out and now I have 11 cans of it I need to get rid of. I had only given them inbetween the Raw diet one teaspoon and vomit was all over the house. Guess it is just raw twice a day and that is it!
ā¢Natural Selectionsā¢ Meals
– Free-Range Meat and Organic Vegetables
The highest quality USDA-approved ingredients, free of antibiotics, hormones or chemical pesticides.
ā¢ZooLogicsā¢ Meals
ā Human-Quality, USDA-approved Ingredients
The same complete formula but with conventionally-raised, human-quality ingredients. Itās the most economical way to feed fresh food to your dog. Great for those on a tight budget or with several large dogs.
What is the difference and is Organic really that much better and I know there are different levels of organic quality and the price difference does make a difference when you are feeding 4 dogs Raw but at the same time I want my 4dogs to get the best that they can get. Right now we are getting the Organic but I am also wondering about the Zoologics and how many of you feed this over the Organic and vise vera if so? I do plan to contact Darwin’s to ask them the difference to see what they say but I would also like your opinions to compare? Is Organic all it is cracked out to be?
Also I am feeding the turkey but if I decided to switch to another Darwin’s protein meat should I mix or not?
Hi NectarMom –
Darwin’s turkey formula is 46% protein and 27% fat.
Well I would say you sliced that up pretty well. I got my marrow bones from Darwin’s and they told me on the phone they were 2-3 inches each and might I just say these things are huge. I have no idea how my tiny girls would be able to do anything with these. They need chewing exercise and I have no clue now what to get. I gave them a mercola soft chew and that thing had my one girl so bloated and my other one has started chewing on her side again after not doing that for so long. Acid reflux is back also and I am not sure what has caused that. I gave Raw yesterday morning and yesterday evening and Raw this morning , they have had no kibble since tues evening and thats when they had the mercola soft chew. I dunno.
My vet said I may have to cut down protein and fat. Does anyone know how much protein and fat is in Darwin’s Raw turkey. They get 1/2lb total each a day of Raw.
Everything I’ve read says to refreeze them not to boil them, that would be cooking.
I need help also. I have a seven year old female lab/pointer mix. She was found abandoned as a puppy, full of ticks, mouth sores and mange. About two years ago she started scratching under her mouth and licking her belly so much it became raw and infected. I visited several vets who would put her on antibiotics to clear up the belly, but it always comes back. It is now mostly cleared up and itching controlled somewhat with Benadryl. I have talked with the canine dermatologist at the local university and she wants me to do the 8 week food trial before she does a blood test for allergies. She said use a food that has only ingredients that the dog has never had before. Therein lies my challenge. She has previously been on many different foods. I did an 8 week trial using Canidae Pure Sea, but she is still scratching, has terrible flatulence and gurgling stomach. Can anyone recommend a food to try since it now appears she has a sensitive stomach also. The vet also said to avoid grain and chicken. Thanks in advance for your help.
Betsy,
Hmmmm…no answers for you on that one! I don’t believe I ever have half eaten marrow bones laying around! For large bones like a lamb shank, I’ve tried to rinse the grass and dirt off with just water and put them in the frig for a day and after that back in the freezer, dirt/grass and all. It gives them a little fiber and soil based organisms!
Hey guys,
I was thinking about sanitizing bones. We have about half a dozen half eaten marrow bones laying around today. They were inside and outside ~ they got dirty and gross. I was wondering how long was too long for a bone to be left out? I picked them all up, rinsed them off and put them in a big Ziplock in the fridge, but wondered if I should drop them in boiling water for a minute or something before I give them back to the dogs to gnaw on again.
HDM, I did indeed watch your videos and that is what made me want to get my dogs some Raw Dental Chews of some sort. I lost my last shihtzu to cancer and I am quite sure it was from something in kibble. Her parents were show dogs and lived to be 15 and 17yrs, she passed away at only 10yrs old but we battled the cancer until we finally had to let go. If I can help these I have now live longer by feeding them at least the best that I can then I will do whatever it takes. These 4 girls are my children.
I was feeding Wellness 95% turkey mixed in enough to coat the evening dinner but after reading up on it and seeing it has caraggeenan in it and it does not sound like a good ingredient to feed so I am ordering some Weruva kurbuta hero because it has organic turkey but also has some ham. I don’t feel completely safe feeding wellness. What does anyone think of Weruva. I still have enough kibble I want to use up and not waste so they need a can food to help them eat the Brothers allergy food or other wise it would sit there untouched. We are doing Darwin ‘s Raw in the morning and kibble with a topper in the evening until we run out of kibble and then it is all Raw.
Hi bigcoco-
If you check out the recommended raw menus thread you’ll see some of my menus. My most recent menu (located near the end of the thread) had a full nutrient analysis done and it exceeds the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. You can check out what types of things I’m adding to supply trace nutrients. I make my own whole food supplement my mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, wheatgrass and bee pollen – they come in powder form that I order from Swanson. I also add things like sprouted nuts and seeds, dairy, oysters, sardines, cod liver oil, etc.
I find that the cheapest way to add muscle meat is gizzards, hearts and green tripe. Although not very appealing to people, these are all quality sources of nutritious and cheap protein for dogs. I have three large dogs that, combined, consume over 6 lbs. of meat per day. About 90% of their meals are raw meaty bones, organs and things like gizzards/heart/tripe – I’d never be able to afford feeding them if they were getting things like boneless skinless chicken breast and lean ground beef as the main component of their meals on a daily basis.
Assuming you are talking about the Happy Hips jerky made by Dogswell, they do not contain 100 IU vitamin E per strip – they contain 100 IU vitamin E per kilogram. Meaning your dog would have to eat over 2 lbs. of treats to get 100 IU vitamin E. Also – just a warning – while I haven’t heard of any issues with the Dogswell brand specifically, a lot of dogs are getting very sick by eating jerky treats made in China and the Dogswell treats are made in China. Just be careful. I personally give my dogs a human vitamin e supplement. My dogs are all large (ranging in size from 68 lbs. to 110 lbs.) – I divide 2-400 IU capsules between their daily breakfast mix so each dog gets about 267 IU per day. I would say you could give your dog a 200 IU capsule daily or a 400 IU capsule every other day.
Hi weimlove –
As far as wild game, I’ve only fed my dogs venison that my dad shoots. I’ve honestly never contemplated feeding shark or heard of anyone feeding it. I did a quick search and found two sites that say it is safe to feed: petmanage.com/fish-health/raw-fish-diet-for-dogs.html and rawlearning.com/fish.html. I would definitely give it a good long freeze though. I also wouldn’t go overboard as I’d assume shark is high in mercury.
Yep what they don’t know will not hurt them and I watch my dogs eat everything so its not like I would let them run in the corner of the backyard and me not see them eating something. They love freeze dried duck feet but we never tried the raw before but we just may š shhhhhh we won’t tell Daddy and the girls can have them when he is at work LOL
Hi schnauzermom –
I had a similar scare with one of my dogs (Gertie, the dog in my avatar) several months ago. I woke up one morning and there was a huge red lump on her paw that was not there the night before. Luckily it turned out to be a histiocytoma which is a benign growth common in young dogs, it disappeared on its own after about a month. Giving probiotics and enzymes will definitely help to keep his immune system in top condition. The kefir should cover his probiotic needs, most brands have well over 10 strains. You could give an enzyme supplement or, better yet, incorporate raw green tripe and/or pancreas into his meals. My dogs don’t get supplemental probiotics or enzymes but they do get raw green tripe several times per week and kefir daily. One enzyme, in particular, that appears to be effective in cancer treatment/prevention is bromelain – it’s derived from raw pineapple. You could puree some fresh raw pineapple to add to his meals a few times a week or purchase a bromelain supplement. Another supplement you may want to consider is turmeric or curcumin (the active concentrate found in turmeric). Turmeric looks to be a promising cancer preventative based on a few studies that have been done. When Gertie developed her histiocytoma I added 1/4 C. pureed fresh pineapple to her meal every other day and gave her 1 tsp. turmeric daily. I still continue to give all my dogs turmeric on a regular basis.
Has anyone heard of or bought from http://www.moesmeats.com/shop_meat/, they have bulk chicken feet and I was just wondering if those are safe for small dogs that inhale the raw meals and chews? If you have not heard of them can you recommend a safe place to buy chicken feet? I want to test my shihtzu with something in raw chicken to see if she would be allergic to it like chicken in kibble.
Yeah I am so glad it is working for our dogs. I might have to try another protein next go round , my hubby made the comment that it was not that bad expensive but then I told him that was half raw and half kibble and then when I told him how much to feed the dogs for 5 weeks he bout hit the floor LOL
When you say “spots” are you referring to hot spots?
My dog started scratching a lot and getting hot spots as well. I did take him to the dermatologist and he can only assume it’s a food allergy as he has been tested for airborne allergies and come up clean. He recommended Z/D as well but the ingredients are crap so I’m doing my own food trial. Problem is with allergies they want you to feed him a hydrolyzed protein which is what the Z/D can provide. Other option is raw. I have 2 large dogs and raw is too costly. I’m going to switch his food to Great Life which is very minimal ingredients to see what happens. However you need to know it can take about 8 weeks to see any difference.
I am also trying the Bertes Digestion Blend and *AANGAMIKĆĀ® DMG LIQUID, also from B-Naturals. Unfortunately allergies is a tough fight. When I took my guy to the dermatologist, we went to the University of Madison which has a vet school. Prices are much more reasonable and they do a very thorough investigation as they have vets in training. If you have a vet school nearby you might want to give them a try. Good luck!
Paula
Hi Bigcoco –
1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.
2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.
3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.
4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.
“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.
Raw should be about 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs(half should be liver). I also add fish oil, superfoods, and a whole foods vitamin supplement. An easy way to get started balancing your raw is to get a premix.
I get raw from 3 companies and the grocery store, but Darwin’s is the only “balanced complete” diet I buy. I really like it.
So my 8 year old dog is currently getting the following for every meal (fed twice a day):
8oz patties (sliced from 5 lb. Armillenos K9 raw tube.. either beef, chicken, duck, or turkey.. and contains 70% meat, 30% bone)
Probiotic
Salmon Oil (by Bravo that supposedly has vitamin E in it)
Multi vitamin from Pet Naturals
Chondrotin treats X2 from Pet Naturals
+ A little bit of veggies mixed in.
He is doing fine on this, but I feel I am missing something. His energy level is lower (meaning he doesn’t like to run a lot, but can do long walks with out a problem).. He seems to need to urinate on everything, even if nothing comes out…His coat is OK (maybe I need to add more salmon oil..?)..
Any suggestions?
Thanks as always for the info Patty. There are so many options out there. I was looking at another website for stuff “Steve’s Raw” and they just had a recall so moving on to the next supplier. I hope Darwin’s never runs into a recall but if they do I will be forced to buy and make my own which will probably end up being the case just with the expense. But right now Darwin’s is working and is so convenient for us.
Dentibones have some BAD stuff in them. You are better off giving a raw rib bone or turkey neck. For a dog with a sensitive stomach always add probiotics. Find one with as many different strains as possible. Swansons has a couple good ones and Mercola has a good one too.
Patty,
Boone’s can’t eat chicken in kibble but he got got a tablespoon of Hare Today’s chicken in with the turkey. Hopefully he can eat raw chicken just fine. We’ll find out!
I need something about 2-3 inches big because my dogs are carpet rats. Patty you might be right on the chicken since Raw is so much more different than kibble. Have you tried turkey hearts before? I have a few places in mind that I want to order from and then I might need another freezer too LOL! I need something that cleans my dogs teeth and something they can gnaw on to keep them busy instead of them up my rear all the time.
One of my dogs can’t handle chicken in kibble, but he can handle it raw as long as I only give it for one meal every few days. Once you go raw, it is amazing the changes you see in what your dog can handle.
I have 3 different companies raw in my freezer and 3 different homemades too. I also have beef ribs, goat ribs, and sheep ribs. And duck necks, turkey necks, and chicken necks. Close to 100 pounds total.
Which is nothing compared to what Sandy has…
Cooked turkey wings can definitely splinter, no problem raw.
Probiotics and digestive enzymes will help with the gas, diarhhea, and ear infections. I would get him on them as quickly as possible. Human ones from the health food store will work. Find a probiotic with as many different strains as possible. You may find that some of his allergy issues are because his gut is not as resiliant as it should be and the probiotics help a lot. If shopping online Swanson’s has really good ones.
I would not feed a kibble with several different kinds of protein until you figure out which ones don’t bother your little guy. Stick with a food that has very few ingredients.
I also used Brothers Complete Allergy Formula and raw with good results, but my dog didn’t have the same issues or to the degree that your’s does, so while I believe it would help, I don’t know that it would solve all your dog’s problems.
Patty, ok thanks for the reassurance. I kept reading that turkey wings can splinter so I just wanted to make sure.
I definitely give turkey wings, I even feed turkey legs, well actually since I got my new meat cleaver, I feed whole turkeys, in pieces of course.
Pugmomsandy- ok great! Shadows definitely not a gulper so I’ll see how he does with it tonight. Are they safe for teeth?
Turkey wings are safe to eat as long as your dog is not a gulper!
Thanks Sandy! I will try those sometime. Darwin’s recommended Marrow bones because my one piggy chihuahua swallows things whole and has choked before and they said that with the marrow bones as small as my dogs are they cannot bite off big pieces and choke on them so I added a couple of bags of those on my order and we will see how the girls like them. In the past we got the basted knee cap bones ( not raw) and they loved those so hopefully they will like these and they will stay busy chewing on these. I wanted to order the Duck necks but Darwin’s said they have bones in them and my dogs could possibly choke on them if they tried to swallow the whole thing.
Fact is one of the raw material of dog food is meat and bone waste taken from slaughter house as dry product and they are unfit for human consumption since it contains blood, hair, hoof, hide rumen etc. companies don’t provide the information about the animal they use to get the meat. it may be goat, cow, chicken or even dogs and cats. Also the meat which is stored for long days may turn poisonous even its preserved sometimes. So, i decided to avoid pet foods which does’nt contain these meat.
My doubt is- i know many types of grains has proteins, fiber contents than meat….. is it advisable to avoid meat?.. will my dog fall ill if i don’t provide him the food with meat content.?
If no, kindly provide me with brands which produce meat free dog food…
Pls Mail me to pmsureshjai@gmail.com
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