[mah4angel]

Hahaha I’m quite an excited, rambunctious person, but I’m so excited about finding this website and doing something amazing for my Louie so I’m just being extra excited now ^_^
OH MY GOODNESS PUGMOMSANDY HOW CREEPY!! Hahahahaha.

[NicoBoxer]

Hello – I am new here, although I’ve lurked on the DFA site at those threads. This could be long, so bear with me. We rescued a 3-year old boxer last year who had “allergies.” We have two vets, a conventional one, and a holistic one, to whom we travel three hours each way when he needs to see her. We started taking Nico to her when all we were getting from conventional vets was Pred, then antibiotics or antifungals for secondary infections. You know the drill. Since transitioning Nico to a raw diet with supplements (enzymes, probiotics, a Chinese herb formula, and other herbs) Nico has done much better. His coat has improved, he itches much less (almost not at all in the winter). He’s still been on 5 mg of pred every other day, however, and vets agree that this is OK.
That said, we’ve done a few blood work ups on him and each time, all seemed normal except his Lipase. It was through the roof; it has “come down” to something like 4,000 when the high end is something like 1,600. I could be slightly off on that last number. We ultimately decided to do a separate draw and send that blood to a lab at Texas A&M. My husband just heard back form our conventional vet and she said she “got an earful” from the folks in Texas. I am beside myself. They are calling it something like latent pancreatitus or something like that. Has anyone ever heard of this? He has no symptoms that we can see. Every so often he has a soft or mucousy stool but otherwise he is fine and that is only occasional. I’m wondering if anyone has heard anything about this and if so, what is recommended to feed him? He loves his OC Raw turkey and rabbit. We HATE the idea of giving him kibble. And we worry that all the work we’ve done to ease his itchiness will be for naught. Thanks for listening if you’re still with me. Any thoughts would be most appreciated!
Sharon

[3pooches]

Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately muffin tins won’t fit in the feeders. I saw that others have used cans, but I wasn’t sure about cleaning those. I clean their bowls every day with the raw food being in there. I’m starting to think buying more stainless steel balls online might be the way to go. The last ball I had was ceramic because the stainless weren’t carried anymore in local stores, but the ceramic one broke this weekend when it slipped out of my soapy hands into the sink!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sandy I love that second picture with the one eye closed and chicken foot hanging out of the mouth – too funny!

[SandyandMila]

Love your excitement Mah4angel!! It’s very sweet that we get so excited for our pets food. I’m in the process of doing the same myself, commercial food just isn’t cutting it. 🙂

[mah4angel]

Wanted to post some news about my progress!

I got the salmon oil and Dr. Harvey’s Multivitamin and Mineral supplement and have been adding them to his food already along with some coconut oil.
Tomorrow I should be getting the vitamin e, cod liver oil, and glandular supplements from Swanson, so I’ll be removing the Earthborn from his diet and using the supplements with the chicken grind.
Then I’ll be picking up the Xkaliber from greentripe.com on Tuesday, and will probably be adding that in sometime next week.
I was able to grab some RMB’s and organ meat, too ^_^ I got a whole ton and am doing my two week freeze now. SOOOO excited 😀
I got ox tail, pork necks, chicken feet (omg I never realized how unbelievably creepy those things were until I was walking about the grocery store with a thing of them!), chicken livers, chicken hearts and gizzards, and pork feet. I may have also gotten something else but now I don’t remember. The organ meat is all chicken because beef organs were kind of expensive (don’t recall seeing pork organ meat), and I figured it would all balance out with the RMB’s.
Unfortunately Only Natural Pet is back-ordered on the Super Daily Greens and won’t get it in till the 31st so I won’t be able to add that into my rotation for a little while. Sigh.
So we’re close to a 100% raw diet!! AHHH hehe 😀 I’m sure I will have many many many more questions and concerns along the way but I’m so glad I’ve gotten him all the way to this point ^_^

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also got a kitchen scale! I am decidedly more excited about this than my wonderful fiancee but I’m so glad I’ll be able to measure his food out properly ^_^

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by mah4angel.

[pugmomsandy]

Can you use a couple stainless steel balls (or a couple soup cans) instead of just one? Have you tried using a muffin tin?

[DogFoodie]

Viola! I just found my way into a raw food buying group!

OK, here’s what I did this afternoon. I sent an email to a local breeder that I found online and asked her if she had any local sources for buying RMBs, etc. She emailed me back this evening and had already been in touch with their person that heads up their co-op and got the OK from that person to have me get in touch with her to add my name to their list. Odd thing is, the person in charge of the co-op is the same person I took Sam to for obedience training when he was a wee pup and she and I enjoyed our raw conversations last Summer.

So, if you’re looking to get into a co-op, try searching out breeders in your area that are raw feeders and get in touch with them.

[3pooches]

Hi all. I’m new to the forum, but have been reading this site and recommending it to others from quite some time. (Thanks Dr. Mike!)

I’m wondering if any of you have suggestions on how to slow down fast eaters, while still feeding a raw diet. At the moment, I’m using a large stainless steel ball in their bowls, but it doesn’t slow them much. I’ve seen the bowls with sections, but they’re plastic, and I prefer stainless steel and have elevated feeders. Also, a lot of the products I’ve seen are fine for kibble, but wouldn’t work for raw. (I had used tennis balls when I fed kibble, but that’s not an option anymore.)

Thanks!

[DogFoodie]

Wow, FreeHoldHound, those all sound like great options!

I know Sandy buys a lot of her fresh things like chicken feet and these great big sardines, etc., at an Asian market near her, too. Hopefully since your raw food guy is so close to you, he wouldn’t mind working with you on placing an order directly if he can fill it at the same time he services the co-ops.

[FreeholdHound]

I get my chicken feet at a large Asian Food Store near me, I’m going to try for the turkey necks there also. If not there’s a big turkey farm a bit further away that I can check with also. I too have stumbled across a raw food supplier within 5 min of me. He delivers to many co -ops but no where near me. I want to email him & see if I can get smaller amounts then he lists if I pick it up.

[SandyandMila]

Yeah I figured I’d start with the same amount in oz. and increase the amount if there’s no digestive issues (diarrhea, loose stool). I would like for her to gain weight but my main concern is improving her skin and coat that has suffered due to the damage it had received this summer, it’s the main reason why I’ve focused more on starting her on raw. I’ll stick to the main proteins of beef, chicken, turkey, and pork and add others once in awhile. She hasn’t had any digestive issues so far so that’s good. Thanks for all your help.

[Cyndi]

Yes, turkey necks are perfectly safe. They are a staple in my dog’s raw diet. Good luck!

[Brewski]

We are a new Vermont all natural dog treat company. We infuse brewer grain from our local breweries into our biscuits. We only use quality gluten free flours, flax, raw Vermont unfiltered honey, fresh fruit, organic peanuts, fresh mint, coconut oil and many other healthy ingredients. We are brand new to the market and would like your feedback. We currently sell at our local farmers markets but hope to go retail. Any suggestions would be great!

Our current flavors are:
Cool Apple Ale Biscuits
Peanut Butter Honey Ale Biscuits

• This topic was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Brewski.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes this is possible. Many people report that their dogs can tolerate a protein source in raw form but not in cooked form. Similarly, I’ve heard of dogs that can’t eat – say – chicken meat, but tolerate chicken organs – such as liver – fine. Trial and error.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My dogs don’t show a preference for any protein over another and don’t seem to do better or worse on any specific protein. I have fed pheasant once or twice, but the only place I can get it is Hare Today and it’s expensive so it’s something that would be reserved for an occasional treat only. I do buy ground buffalo occasionally from the grocery store to add to a pre-mix but at $9/lb. that’s only a once in a while treat as well. I really don’t believe any specific protein is more or less nutritious than another. I personally stick to chicken, turkey, beef and pork because they’re the cheapest and easiest to get. I don’t feel that feeding more novel proteins would provide any benefit, it would just be more expensive. The only time feeding a novel protein would be desirable is if your dog shows sensitivities to more common proteins or when performing an elimination diet. I would think one of my recipes would give a 50 lb. dog about 4 or 5 servings but I can’t say for sure, it really depends on the dog. I would just start her on the same number of oz. as you’ve been feeding her of a commercial raw food, monitor her body condition and go from there or figure out how how many calories she’s been eating and feed her the same number of calories.

[FreeholdHound]

Can a dog test reactive to certain ingredients, which I agree, can set him off in kibble form … But can tolerate them well in raw form?
Chicken / Turkey kibble is out of the question as well as Salmon /Fish formulas, but raw chicken feet and sardines seem to be Houndie Crack to him. I want to try turkey necks next but don’t know if that’s pushing it.
I want to start incorporating raw into his diet and I was wondering if this is a common thing. As a retired racing Greyhound a raw/kibble mix would have been typically used. And I would like to go back to that type of diet (as opposed to 100% kibble he’s on now).

[FreeholdHound]

PS). I just ordered a bag of the Nature’s Logic Beef formula kibble. After some research I found this and 1 or 2 of their other formulas) to be the only kibble I’ve found that contain NONE of the ingredients that he tested sensitive to : Chicken, turkey, venison, salmon, white fish, soy, corn, milk, oatmeal, and sweet potato – oomph. Chicken, turkey, salmon & sweet potato are the big no no’s in kibble (but okay raw). I like the Victor but I am curious to see what happens with the Natures Logic. I’m aiming for a part kibble part raw diet, so even though the price on the NL is a bit steep compared to the Victor , it may balance out.

[SandyandMila]

Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I know variety is best, just wondered what you used and if your dogs like a certain protein or did better on one more than the other. Don’t think I saw you mention Pheasant, Bison or Buffalo, do you not like feed them those? Mila is smaller than your dogs (50 lbs and less active since her spay surgery), more lean and she has long legs but could use some more weight not too much though. So if I used your recipes as a frame of reference I could make 4 to 5 servings, would it still be fresh the 2nd and 3rd day or do I just make a seperate portion each day? I do like the ingredients in the Urban Wolf premix more than the others but don’t think I can find that locally, maybe I’ll look into See Spot Liver Longer that you mentioned. Thanks again, I appreciate it!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SanDnMila –

I generally use the green tripe with spleen from Hare Today (cheapest shipping to my location) however I do occasionally buy the green tripe supermix, lamb tripe and bison tripe from My Pet Carnivore and I’m able to get venison tripe during hunting season. The more variety the better.

The recipes are for my three, 1/3 may still be too much for Mila though. I’m not sure exactly how much she eats but my dogs are very large and very active ( the girls are both about 70 lbs. and get about 2 hours of activity per day). Feed her the usual amount she gets – you may get 4 or 5 servings out of a batch.

I do prefer Urban Wolf to THK and Sojo’s. However, I’ve recently tried See Spot Liver Longer dinner mix and I think that’s my new favorite. If you’re using pre-mixes frequently, however, I’d recommend rotating.

My main protein sources that I feed are beef, pork, chicken and turkey as they’re the cheapest and easiest to get. However I occasionally get some more novel protein sources for variety. I order whole prey quail and rabbits from Hare Today a few times a year. I get venison during the fall. I’ll also sometimes buy ground lamb or bison from the grocery store and add it to a pre-mix for something different. I don’t think any one protein source really has more or less nutrients than the others, they all just have slightly different nutrient levels which is why variety is important. You should feed an even mix of red meat and poultry and I’d recommend using a least three different protein sources per week but the more the better. When I feed eggs I feed the whole egg.

[SandyandMila]

HDM – in your recipes when you feed green tripe, do you feed Hare Today with spleen or do you purchase it from somewhere else? Instead of feeding beef do you sometimes rotate in venison, bison, or buffalo? And when you feed poultry do you sometime rotate in duck, pheasant, or quail? Does chicken and turkey have more nutrients than the others I listed? I’m very new to feeding raw (just started this past week with pre-made NV and now Primal) but would like to feed one premade for one meal and homemade raw for the other meal. Mila is loving it so far, like I knew she would. 🙂 The amount you feed in your recipes is for your 3, I would be feeding my one 1/3 of that, right? Is Urban Wolf pre-mix what you recommend over HK, GL, Sojos etc.? When you feed eggs, that’s the whole egg correct? Are your dogs active, do you feed based on that? Mila is about normal in activity, but plan to do more long walks/runs with her and bring her to the dog park again this week after she has her staples taken out tomorrow. Sorry for all the questions, I’m sure I’ll have a lot more. lol I just want to be proactive and have knowledge of what I’m doing before I start.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Julie –

My older female Gertie was started on THK when she came home at 8 weeks and at THK until she was 8 months old (this is when I transitioned her to raw). I fed her a rotation of Love, Thrive, Zeal and Embark – always had a box of each on hand and switched formulas daily. I added roughly 20% Tripett (canned green tripe) to each meal to increase the fat and protein levels and offset the somewhat high level of calcium in the Embark. I did notice an increase in stool volume and frequency (I have seen this with all dehydrated-type foods I’ve used). I’m not 100% certain why this occurs, there have been several conversations about this on the review section though. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most companies use raw vegetables (and they dehydrate them at low enough temperatures that they remain raw), the fact that many companies use “chunks” of vegetables and the high fiber content of most dehydrated foods. If you try the food and have problems some things you could try would be to run the food through a food processor prior to feeding to break down the vegetables (one posted has reported that this helps – I’ve never tried it), supplement with digestive enzymes that include cellulase or mix the THK with a high meat canned food (such as Tripett).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling –

As Sharfie pointed out feeding as a percent of body weight is a way to determine portion sizes when feeding raw. You wouldn’t want to do that for kibble as kibble is much more calorically dense than raw food (due to low moisture content).

[InkedMarie]

You’re welcome, Nosh. I have a dog who can’t have chicken too. I pretty much stick with fish or turkey for kibbles, fish for The Honest Kitchen and duck/beef/turkey for raw.

[julez4you]

Hi all,
I have a 10 week old Dane pup that I recently transitioned from Purina to a quality grain kibble. There were some hiccups along the way- but he seems to be tolerating the new food now, so my next move is to try and transition him over to something like THK Love formula, but I’ve heard from others that some dogs experience a lot of waste when on THK. Has anyone had this experience- in particular with the Love formula? I know this formula is meant to be higher in meat inclusion than some of the others- and is also one of their grain-free formulas. Just concerning as we are still very much in the potty training phase, so more stools is worrisome. Also- have always thought that quality in means less out- so perplexed why a higher meat protein raw formula would cause this?

Thanks for any input!

[julez4you]

@Sharfie and others…
Glad to hear your pup is doing much better on raw. I’m a firm believer as well- but with my senior dog 100% raw fed and my lack of desire to make my own, I just can’t afford the expense for a growing Great Dane pup. But I do hope to make the transition some day as I believe it’s what saved my former Dane life when I switched him to raw at 8.

In the meantime- wanted to share some info that might be helpful to there as they transition to new foods and/or have periods of loose stools not as a consequence of something more concerning. My Dane pup was having them as I transitioned him from Purina to a quality holistic food. My friend told me about Honest Kitchens Perfect Form herbal supplement and this stuff is amazing. It’s all natural, and I just add a little in with 2 of his meals each day (along with a probiotic) and now everything is looking good.

My next step is too hopefully transition him from kibble over the THK Love dehydrated raw.

[sharfie]

Jules-
The 4% is from the raw food forum and the % to feed if you are feeding a raw diet. I had to switch my puppy to raw a few days ago. He has had loose poops and after trying different ways to clear it up and consulting with the vet, nothing was working. I switched to raw a few days ago and things are much better.

[mah4angel]

Yes! I do believe that we are always reunited with those we love; animal and human. Whether it be in Heaven or in another lifetime, whatever you happen to believe in ^_^

There’s a whole forum topic dedicated to raw dog food menus here: /forums/topic/menus/. I’m totally no raw dog food genie haha and you can see all of my ramblings and questions on there and my current future recipe is the last comment on the thread hehe. I don’t have everything I need to actually feed him his raw diet yet so that’s why I’m not feeding him 100% raw as of yet but I will be soon!

Here is a thread for help with starting a dog on raw dog food: /forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/ BUT it will take a few months to transition her all the way up the ladder to raw food, so I wouldn’t be super worried about it quite yet 😀 I think the most important thing is to just get her off of Science Diet food. And if you have any of the Science Diet left, PLEASE donate it to a local shelter! I know that Science Diet is not at all optimal for our wonderful furry friends but shelters need all that they can get 🙂

I also wanted to add something that I forgot to my original comment, which is to start feeding raw meaty bones and organ meat (livers, hearts, etc.) when she is fully transitioned to DNA (or another freeze or air-dried raw). RMB’s as we call them are GREAT for dental health! And it’ll be a great introduction to real, raw meat. Pork necks, chicken necks, ox tails, chicken backs, chicken feet, pork feet, etc. are all RMB’s (as opposed to recreational bones like thigh bones, etc.) that are recommended. And the organ meats will supply extra nutrients. Just make sure to freeze them for two weeks just to be on the safe side 🙂

RMB’s and organs (and any table scraps, etc.) should make up no more than 20% of her daily diet (because it will throw off the balance supplied in the pre-made food), so you’ll want to give her maybe one pork neck one day and maybe one chicken heart the next day, and so on and so forth. BUT like I said, this is all a long way off so I wouldn’t focus too much on this portion of the feeding.

In reality, the longest transition time will more than likely be right now, switching from Science Diet to whatever 4-star GRAIN-FREE food (totally forgot to mention that the four-star food should be grain-free) you choose, whether it be Nature’s Domain or something else. This is because her tummy isn’t used to the lack of grains. It’s almost like a detox process. So, that transition will most likely take the longest to complete; probably a month or so.

This is why adding fiber (with things like pureed pumpkin, hemp, chia, and flax seed, etc.) and probiotics/digestive enzymes (with things like yogurt, etc.) is important because it helps to nourish the balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut as well as balancing out any other digestive problems.

I’m trying to pack in a lot of information into one comment so that you won’t have to do too too much fishing for information. It’s stressful, I know! The most important thing is to just pull the trigger and do it. I second-guessed myself and I waited until I felt I had found the perfect food, but no food is 100% perfect. There is no supplementing a wolf’s primitive diet with just one food, try as we might hehe ^_^

[MsDad]

Thanks for the info Hound Dog Mom. Is it just the calcium and phosphorus we need to watch out for or protein as well? I’ve been looking at Nature’s Logic but it has a very high protein content. Everything else looks really good. It just seems like I can’t find a food that has it all….

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi MsDad –

Congrats on the new pup and very good decision on going raw. I have two bloodhounds that are raw fed. I make homemade raw and fed 25% of the diet as green tripe until 8 months old to keep calcium levels low, but in balance with the phosphorus. Green tripe has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%). If you’re going the commercial route the formulas I know to have acceptable calcium levels are: Aunt Jeni’s (Turkey), BARF (Beef, Chicken, Lamb), Darwin’s (Beef), K9 Kraving (Beef, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Duck), Primal (Beef, Duck, Lamb, Quail, Turkey/Sardine, Venison), Stella & Chewy’s (Beef), Vital Essentials (Fish, Beef). If you can get raw tripe (I order mine from My Pet Carnivore and Hare Today) and wanted to occasionally use a formula higher in calcium you could mix it with tripe.

[MsDad]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and am a firm believer in raw diets. I will be getting a goldendoodle puppy in October who will ultimately be trained to be my service dog. So obviously I want to give him every advantage possible. So far, the best food I’ve found is Primal Rabbit Formula but I wonder if the calcium content is high enough or just right. Would love to hear any/all opinions.

Eddie

[mah4angel]

Hi! I’d like to start out by saying to ChristyGH and dendad, I am SO SO sorry for your losses! I know it’s easy to feel bad about your choice of diet for your babies but it is absolutely NOT your fault!! We all can see how much love you had for your babies and all of us have been there! You had every reason to believe that you were doing the best for your babies and no one should ever begrudge you for it, including yourself <3

I’m on my way to feeding my Louie (a 10-pound Silky) 100% raw and had a few suggestions myself.

His previous owners had him on pretty much whatever was on sale at the grocery store/whatever they decided to pick up from Costco that day (Pedigree, Purina etc.). The one he was on when we took him home was Purina Puppy Chow (we got him four months ago and he’s three, not a puppy anymore).

I’ve personally found that it was easier to transition him from the CRAP he was eating before slowly up the ladder of great-quality foods. I would buy small batches of each new food (5-10 pounds if available) which would last him for a month or so and then move on to a higher quality kibble. Every time I’ve upgraded his food, he’s picked out the old one from his bowl! ^_^

It’s important to mention how to transition a dog. You have to transition SLOWLY, very very slowly. You’re going to keep a certain ratio of new food to old food for a week OR if her bowel movements change, wait until they turn to normal to move onto the next ratio. At first, have 25% of the new food, and 75% of the old food. Then (once everything is normal) do 50% new 50% old. Finally, 75% new, 25% old until it’s 100% new food.

My suggestion (after going through this whole process) would be to do this (remember to ALWAYS properly transition your pup between each step and add probiotics/digestive enzymes and fiber):

-Change from Science Diet to a four-star kibble (something like Nature’s Domain: http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/ which is sold at Costco in HUGE bags so it might not be the best for a little one like yours)

-Then from a four-star kibble to a five-star kibble (like Innova Prime: http://www.petco.com/product/118780/Innova-Prime-Grain-Free-Beef-And-Lamb-Adult-Dry-Dog-Food.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch, or Earthborn Holistic: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural-grain-free-dry-dog-food). I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Earthborn Holistic products, they are GREAT quality and my Louie adores the Primitive Natural kibble.

-Then start SLOWLY adding in wet food to the kibble (like the Earthborn dinners: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-duke-s-din-din-gourmet-dinner-wet-dog-food).

-Then, switch from the five-star kibble to something that has raw in it like Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost food (which has bits of freeze-dried raw in it): http://www.petflow.com/product/natures-variety/nature-s-variety-instinct-grain-free-raw-boost-venison-meal-lamb-meal-dry-dog-food. Continue to add in the wet food.

-Then go to a 100% raw kibble like DNA (air-dried raw, stands for Dried N Alive): http://www.dnapetfood.com/node/20, or something similar. At first, I would continue to add in the wet food to this, but then I would transition her to 100% DNA (or whatever food you decide to use).

-And then transition from that to a pre-made frozen raw OR you could totally cut costs and make your own (which is what I’m doing), and then you’ll have 100% control over what she’s eating 😀

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by mah4angel.

[NectarMom]

My dogs are getting very bored with the ground Rabbit and 2 of them will not touch it anymore so I bought some young beef, green tripe and white fish or something like that so I am wondering since green tripe is so low in fat ( from My Pet Carnivore) can I feed that as a whole meal? They also would not touch the young ground beef so I am having to give it away to a friend. I wish I could find something similar to Darwin’s but not with such high fat and so much veggies. We also tried the Canine Caviar Venison dry and honestly I don’t think it has enough protein for my crew. My short coat Chihuahua started having more coat loss, not bald spots but just more shedding than normal and the itching hasn’t stopped but gotten worse. One of my long coated Chihuahuas was digging at her legs when on Brothers Turkey and egg and she hasn’t stopped yet and the insides of her legs are blood raw 🙁

[dendad]

No I haven’t considered raw. I guess it sounded unhealthy to me, but it looks like I have nothing to worry about. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.

[GizmoMom]

Have you consider switching to raw or pre-made raw? My picky dog ate it right up. When he was on kibble, he was very picky and refuses to eat. Now that’s he on raw, he eats everything. Even when I switch him to new brands of pre-made raw, he doesn’t hesitate to eat.

Go through this list and see which one you might want to try.
/dog-food-reviews/raw/5-star/

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Thank you for all your help. I have one other question. I have access to the commercial frozen raw foods (I work in a small pet food store): Bravo, Primal, Stella and Chewies, etc. But, I noticed there are no calcium levels listed on the bag. Do you know if any of the freeze dries or raw frozen food have the appropriate calcium levels for large breed puppies?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jules –

If you were feeding only canned or raw foods, yes you should watch the calcium level. If you are only using them as a topper to a kibble with appropriate levels of calcium, I wouldn’t worry about it. I am getting together a list of suitable commercially available raw foods, I don’t plan on doing canned foods in the near future though – sorry! What I did with Mabel when she was a pup was to replace about 25% of what my other two adults were eating with raw green tripe which has a low, but balanced, calcium to phosphorus ratio (I make homemade raw). Sounds like we’re on nearly opposite sides of the country – I’m located in northern New York about 15 miles from the Canadian border!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica1 –

The Organix puppy formula is 1.05% calcium and has 2.89 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. – so yes, it’s a good choice. It would be perfectly fine to use both grain-inclusive and grain-free foods in a rotational feeding program. Many people are under the assumption that dry food is good for dental health – you’re not the only one. For the most part, this is a myth. Some dogs that thoroughly chew their kibble may may derive some benefit in comparison to a soft food however this benefit is minimal and will not be enough to prevent periodontal disease and – in my experience – most dogs don’t thoroughly chew kibble and therefore would receive no benefit. The only food that promotes dental health is a raw meaty bones diet and any dog eating commercial food, be it kibble or canned food, will need their teeth brushed on a regular basis or they will get eventually develop periodontal disease to some degree. Your vet telling you that your dog will have good dental health as long as he eats kibble would be the equivalent of your dentist telling you that you don’t need to brush your teeth as long as you eat crunchy foods – kind of silly, right? About 85% of dogs fed commercial foods over the age of 3 have some degree of periodontal disease, oftentimes it goes unnoticed by owners. Many people think “doggie breath” is normal, but it’s not. A dog’s breath should have no odor. All of the Organix canned foods appear that they’re labeled for adult maintenance, however if you’re only using the canned food as a topper and the bulk of the puppy’s diet is going to be a dry food approved for growth or all life stages this is fine. You could also top the Organix puppy kibble with a canned food labeled for growth from another brand, there’s no reason you can mix different brands of kibble and canned food. I hope that helps!

[guidosmom]

I have two dogs, and one of them has been the exact same way. I fully expected him to devour his first raw meal. Instead he didn’t really want anything to do with it. Our other dog thought it was the best thing that ever happened to her. 🙂

[mah4angel]

Just thought I’d share, already posted this on my Multivitamin topic, but it’s more appropriate for this forum.
So here’s my recipe (I make eight batches for Louie right now and I will be continuing to do that, and adding a couple things every day so I’ll be able to mix it up and give him some variety)

Morning (recipe makes 8 meals, aside from the parts to be added on a daily basis):

4 patties / ~1.1 lbs / ~2 cups From the Heart whole grind (~0.1375 lbs / ~1/4 cup per serving)
2 cups XKALIBER blend (greentripe.com) (1/4 cup per serving)
1/2 650 mg capsule of Swanson’s glandular supplement (~40 mg per serving)
1 200 IU capsule of vitamin e (25 IU per serving)
1 1000 mg capsule of cod liver oil (125 mg per serving)
Rotating every day (adding to above recipe on a daily basis):
-1/2 tsp salmon oil
-1/2 tsp coconut oil
-1/2 tbsp flax seed
Rotating every day (adding on a daily basis):
-Dr. Harvey’s Multivitamin and Mineral Supplement
-Only Natural Pet Super Daily Greens

Evening:

RMB’s (rotating)

I’ve ordered the green tripe and am going shopping for the RMB’s tomorrow! Everything else is on its way here 🙂

[londoncalling1996]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my questions. It’s really so helpful, I find it all a bit overwhelming. I made the trip to Los Altos today to the pet store with LOTS of good dog food options. I got 7 small sample bags of different kinds of Fromm dry kibble for Lux to try. I also got a can of Trippett, Green beef tripe, duck and salmon. (I haven’t opened it yet though, got to psych myself up for that I think! :-)) And a can each of Ziwipeak venison&fish recipe and Nature’s logic rabbit dinner. After reading your advise, I thought, “well, cost isn’t really an isssue, man, what we paid for this dog!”, but then I got to the pet store and saw the prices! If my 16 year old is going to go to college, Lux might have to eat some kibble! These three cans I got cost 15 bucks and with a berner in the house, we might be eaten out of house and home! I am looking on line at some of the on line sites you suggested. Thanks! I do like to shop local and will, but since it’s about 20 miles to the nearest pet store with good food, I can justify not using the local shop for all of our dog food needs all the time. So, now you have me thinking about wet and raw food, do I also need to worry about the calcium content in those for the first 8 or 10 months of Lux’s life? Maybe you have a list of your favorite canned foods for Large and Giant Breed puppies that have the right amount of calcium? (Fingers crossed!) Where are you located? I’m on the San Francisco peninsula, about 20 miles south of SF. Thank you for everything! Cheers, Jules

[pugmomsandy]

tarynjodi,

When you see a tapeworm on your dog’s poop, you are just seeing a few segments of the whole worm that is already residing in the intestines. Tapeworms can grow up to several feet in length. Your pup probably already had them. Tapeworms don’t necessarily shed with poop all the time. It can be once a week that you might even see one. The tapeworm eggs are carried by fleas and when your dog eats one, it can become infected. Half of my fosters had tapeworms when I got them. But I didn’t see them in the stool always right away. Sometimes it will be a week before I see some. My personal dogs have been eating Trippett and other completely raw foods for a couple years and they don’t ever have worms. And I don’t even give them any flea prescriptions. But I’ve noticed that half my fosters during this time of year have tapeworms. They weren’t even treated at the vet for them before being released as they probably didn’t shed any in the stool while there or the tech just didn’t look at the poop up close!

[sharfie]

So, I am a bit confused. Right now I am feeding my puppy NV Turkey and adding Bravo Buffalo Boneless as a topper. If I were to use Bravo Balance or a canned food, which is a complete and balanced raw food, would it raise the calcium to a level that is too high?

Thanks so much for your help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling1996 –

That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Just because she’s allergic to chicken that shouldn’t mean that she’s allergic to all poultry. Many dogs are allergic to chicken and aren’t affected by duck, turkey, quail, etc. Some dogs that are allergic to chicken-based kibble can even eat raw chicken or chicken organs without issue. Unless your dog has shown a reaction to other poultry I wouldn’t rule them out as sources of protein. Ideally you want to be feeding an even mix of poultry and red meat. You can supplement with a small amount of fish oil daily or feed a fatty fish (such as sardines or wild salmon) for one or two meals a week. If you do find that you’re needing to avoid all poultry and only feed red meat you should add 1 tsp. hemp seed oil or walnut oil per pound of meat – these oils provide linoleic acid (a short chain omega 6 fatty acid) and alpha linolenic acid (a short chain omega 3 fatty acid) which red meats are deficient in.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi julez4you –

The calcium levels in this particular formula are appropriate for a large breed puppy and it is an all life stages food however – imho – it’s way too low in protein and fat. If you do feed it, I would definitely recommend topping with a high protein canned food or adding some fresh meat/eggs/etc. I definitely feel high protein is preferable. I’m a big fan of THK and, in fact, my two year old was weaned onto THK and ate it until she was 8 months old – Love was a staple in the rotation.

I completely understand where you’re coming from with the raw thing. Commercial raw is very expensive – especially for large dogs. I could never afford commercial raw for my two given the amount that they eat. I’m able to do homemade fairly cheaply but it does get quite time consuming.

[julez4you]

Hound Dog Mom:
I know you are working to compile updated lists, but I’m running low on my pups current bag so hoping to switch. I just transitioned my pup to Petcurean Go Chicken, and calcium levels are a bit higher than optimal. What do you think of this formula? http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck

The guaranteed anaysis as fed is provided.

Also- how would you compare feeding something like this or even a higher protein grain-free kibble vs. The Honest Kitchen Love?

I’m a big believer in raw- my lab/mastiff mix is 100% raw fed. But I don’t have the time/desire to make my own, so I buy commercial raw and I just can’t afford to have my senior dog plus a 9week old Dane pup on raw right now. I do eventually hope to make the switch though once he’s past the high growth years where he’d be eating us out of house and home 🙂

Thanks again! I’ve really been struggling with this one.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DellUSN –

Yes – I feel that the sooner a rotational feeding program is implemented the better. There are several reasons foods should be rotated – there is no “best” or “perfect” food so switching brands will help to mitigate the shortcomings of feeding any one brand for an extended period of time, feeding a variety of foods helps to foster a strong and diverse population of microorganisms in the gut and by having several “go to” foods you’ll be able to make a quick switch in the event of a recall or formula change. Some also believe that rotating foods helps to decrease the risk of the dog developing a sensitivity to a particular ingredient later in life.

Initially, you may need to gradually transition your pup when switching brands. You would do this by feeding 25% new/75% old for a few days, then moving to 50/50 for a few days, then 75/25 for a few days, then transitioning entirely to the new food. If your pup is experiencing loose stools during the transition a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and/or probiotics may help. My two dogs were both started on a rotational feeding plan upon coming home at 8 weeks old and neither experienced any digestive upset – but it does depend on the dog.

As far as which brands to feed, for the next four months or so I would recommend keeping him on a controlled calcium food. Any of the kibbles on my list would be comparable to Wellness CORE. I’m currently in the process of updating the list and by the end of this week or beginning of next week I should have a revised grain-free list, a grain-inclusive list and a raw list posted.

There really is no rhyme or reason to rotational feeding – everyone has their own method. I haven’t fed kibble quite a few years but for my last dog that ate kibble I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned food and/or fresh food “toppers” daily. When I got Gertie (currently two years old) I rotated between The Honest Kitchen’s (dehydrated) Love, Embark, Thrive and Zeal formulas and fed a different variety each day, I also mixed in a can of Tripett with her breakfast and gave her either a raw egg, a tin or sardines or plain yogurt at dinner. When she was 8 months old I switched her to a raw diet. Mabel (my one year old) transitioned to a raw diet as soon as she came home at 8 weeks. On their homemade raw diets my dogs get something completely different at each meal.

I would highly recommend adding “toppers” if you’re feeding kibble as the sole diet. Toppers will boost the “species-appropriateness” by adding some extra protein, moisture and providing your dog with some fresh, less processed food. Some people believe canned foods are unhealthy, however they’re actually much healthier than dry food – they’re less processed, higher in protein/lower in carbohydrates and have a high moisture content. The same applies to dehydrated foods and raw foods. If you’re adding a balanced canned, dehydrated or raw food you can top with as much as you want. “People food” is great too – any left over lean meat or veggies from your dinner, eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir and cottage cheese are all cheap and very healthy foods (just keep unbalanced extras such as these to 20% or less of the meal or you could risk throwing of the nutritional balance of the kibble).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[kcarter137]

I have been lurking around on a few of the “Raw Food” Forums and decided to do homemade-cooked food. I would do raw but my boyfriend has vetoed it (hopefully I can slowly incorporated some raw items without him knowing). I have Dr. Beckers book, I have read it a few times and understand that I am going to need to supplement her food due to lack of bones but still have some questions. We are going currently reintroducing foods after being on a elimination diet of pork and sweet potatoes for the last few months due to her allergies. So far we have discovered she is allergic to rice and chicken. She can have fish. I still have a few more weeks of reintroducing items. I know the rice irrelevant. The dermatologist she’s seeing said that if she is allergic to chicken then she cannot have any “feathered” protein.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Will I need to supplement her feed with anything to make up for the lack of “feathered protein”?

[DellUSN]

Hello, Hound Dog Mom.

I’ve been searching around this site for a little while now and I’ve noticed your activity and knowledge about pet foods. I signed up so that I could attempt to contact you directly through private message, but I guess that’s not possible here. Either way, I’ve been reading a lot of your advice on here and I had a couple questions for you. I have a 4 month old Chocolate Lab (40 pounds) named Rooster who I just got a couple weeks ago. Having studied to become an Registered Vet Tech before I joined The Navy, I understood that importance of nutrition for large breed puppies, or any breed of puppy for that matter. After some research I decided to go with a 4 pound bag of Wellness CORE Puppy Formula. His transition over to the food went very smoothly and he’s been devouring it, so I bought him a 26 pound bag. I currently feed him 4 cups a day dry kibble (2 AM, 2 PM) and he’s doing well on the schedule. I read a post that you made about rotating dog’s brand of food and source of protein. I was curious if this was something that should be implemented at young age and some other brands you recommended for my pup. Also, I was very worried about my dog and people food because I’ve seen so many people just go nuts feeding there dogs junk food. He has not been exposed to any people food yet, but I’d like to get him on some raw meats and bones if possible. At what age would he be ready for that and what sorts of things would you recommend for him in that field? I really anticipate your reply and appreciate any input you offer. Thank you!