[Dori]

Cyndi, it sounds to me like it would have been the soap. I have terrible allergies myself and can’t use any detergent that has dyes, fragrance etc. Even my friends and family know that when I’m coming to visit they keep All or Tide Free on hand and wash towels and sheets for me for my stay. I think your vet, being put off on a raw diet, is just being a nay sayer. Obviously she herself does not suffer from allergies or she would know that it probably was the detergent. Gain is really fragrance driven and was probably (hopefully–fingers, eyes, and toes crossed) the culprit. It’ll take a little bit but I bet her hair does start to grow back pretty soon. :>)

Oh! Knock on wood too!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Cyndi]

Another Update: The vet just called and all of Bailey’s bloodwork for her thyroid came back normal. I told her I think I had the problem figured out and told her about the laundry soap, she says “I doubt that’s it, I still think it’s something diet related”. Damn her anyway! Why can’t vets get on board with raw diets!?! My dog is obviously healthy other than the current problem! I pray to god her hair starts growing back now and all this problem was because of the laundry soap. I need to find a good vet!!

[Lisa C]

Hi sue…
I have put off commenting because I feel so defeated. Chewy still vomited on the NV raw, but I may have not given enough to him to test if it really worked. He only had a small bags worth. I don’t know how long he has to be on something to see if it really works. Lately he has been on a canned Nutro “limited ingredient” for a week and still vomits on it, but it’s to tide him over until we can get him into a 2nd vet (money is limited right now unfortunately) but we are planning to go within the next 1-2 weeks. All his poos have been normal, luckily. We tried Honest Kitchen Veal, the really expensive $60 box and he wouldn’t even go near it. Our original vet wants him back on RX, but I don’t see the point if it never helped. These are some results from his last bloodwork:

“the lipase, one of the two pancreatic enzymes, is slightly elevated so recommend feeding the prescription intestinal diet as already planned to help control any pancreatic inflammation that may occur with feeding other fat sources”

[Sharon Buchanan]

Desiree,

The values for BUN are different in raw fed dogs. While your dog’s BUN does seem high, his Creatinine is low normal. Most conventional vets aren’t aware of the different values – I had to share the correct values with two of the vets at the clinic I go to. Here is a great article that explains three values that will be different:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/normal-blood-values-and-raw-fed-dogs/ At their site, they also have a series of free raw feeding videos that should help you keep him on track and you can search their articles for natural ways to address his BUN value.

Since he doesn’t have teeth, you can help supplement his calcium with whole raw eggs. Just crush the shell with the back of a spoon so that the shell is essentially little flat pieces, not totally pulverized. I would also try chicken backs and ribs. I would begin with cutting away the spine and just give him the soft smaller bones. Once his gums have toughened up a bit he might be able to gnaw the spine and neck in order to get his 10% bone.

A proper raw diet consists of 80% protein (heart is considered a protein, not an organ), 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs – pancreas, spleen, testicles, kidneys… Except that you might be trying to feed a raw diet based on AAFCO guidelines for commercial food, I don’t know why you’re adding greens and veggies at this point. Are there other issues besides the elevated BUN? Have you been feeding greens and veggies for the entire six months? I would definitely add a digestive enzyme supplement to his diet, probiotics won’t hurt as well. Mercola makes supplements that I and many others have had good success with.

Dogs Naturally Magazine will be hosting their second weekend-long internet conference in the Fall. They have a Facebook page that, if you “Like”, will keep you up-to-date and let you know when you can sign up. I attended the first one at the end of January and will be signing up for this one as well. Additionally, you’ll then have access to a private group of like-minded owners, nutritionists and homeopaths who all respond to concerns just like yours with personal experience as well as professional opinion.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Erin –

You aren’t going to see any dental benefit from feeding ground raw. If you’re interested in feeding raw meaty bones, the mechanical chewing action will aid in keeping the teeth cleaner to a certain degree. However, the only way to ensure optimal dental health is to actually brush your dogs teeth – this should be done at least three times a week.

Price will vary greatly and will depend on which protein source you feed, which cut you feed, quality (grass fed vs. conventional), purchase quantity and your location. I purchase items in bulk from a distributor that supplies grocery stores and restaurants and get things like chicken backs (~$0.30/lb.), turkey necks (~$0.60/lb), chicken hearts & gizzards ($0.80/lb), turkey hearts & gizzards ($0.90/lb.), pork hearts ($0.90/lb), beef hearts ($1.30/lb), etc. etc. All my items come in 15 to 50 lb. cases and I have to order a minimum of 300 lbs. at a time. Purchasing meat at the grocery store would be much more expensive.

If you wanted to work in a little raw for the dental benefits you would be safe feeding a a raw meaty bone a few times a week in addition to the kibble without throwing anything off balance (you’d just want to make sure to feed a little less kibble on those days to account for the calories in the raw meaty bone). Larger dogs do well with chicken leg quarters, chicken backs, turkey necks and pork necks. Smaller dogs do well with chicken wings and necks.

If you want to start feeding 50% raw you’ll need to be sure it’s balanced. I’d suggest checking out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it includes easy to prepare balanced recipes. You could also use a pre-mix – my favorite is See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (formulated by the author of the aforementioned book). I like it because it’s reasonably priced and doesn’t add in large amounts of fruits/veggies/etc. like some other mixes do so I have the freedom to customize it more to my preferences.

You may also find some useful information on the raw diet threads: /forums/forum/raw-dog-food-forum/

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Katy L]

This is my first post on this forum – I do a lot of lurking. Sophia is an Airedale mix rescue (10 yrs old this month). You really struck a chord when you mentioned the Gain with Lavender. Sophia broke out in what looked like hives – but she had been having other skin issues and eventually was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism. Well, in the mean while, my husband broke out in rashes that looked almost like psoriasis (a few months after). I thought my husband was breaking out because of the stress from Sophia as we weren’t sleeping at night and were trying to keep her from chewing herself to bits when we were awake. It was stressful. A friend had given me a bottle of All Free laundry detergent that she didn’t care for and I used it . Sophia and my husband BOTH cleared up! However, I still hadn’t put all the facts together because We had started Sophia on medication, raw diet, bathing twice a week, etc. Husband’s rash was cleared up with topical cream. About a month ago, I wanted to use up the rest of the Gain and guess what? Sophia is broken out in hives and losing her hair. I cannot believe I didn’t figure this out until now! I feel like an idiot! Let me go throw out the remainder of the Gain and head to the store for some All Free and White vinegar (rinse).
This is a very abbreviated version of events but would be really interested to see how Bailey does when you re-wash the laundry. It sounds like Bailey is in great hands 🙂

[Dori]

I feed my three toy dogs commercial raw diets. Very high protein, moderate fat and low carbs. My dogs weight 7 lbs., 6 lbs., and 5 lbs. If anything, I have problems keeping weight on them. They range in age from 5 years old to 15 years old. So to the question of what is the right amount of fat or protein, I don’t believe it’s a question that anyone other than the dog guardian can answer. Every dog is different. Every dog assimilates ingredients and levels differently. Protein in foods I feed my three little girls can range up to 54%, fat can at times hover around 36 – 38 %. I believe someone mentioned that it’s the quality of fats in a diet, not the actual percentage in the food. Same holds true for protein. Low carbs as I feed grain, potato, soy, etc. free. The only treats they get are organic small pieces of fruits or veggies.

No, I think whoever told you that a dog needs 1 gram of protein for every lb they weigh is incorrect. We would have an awful lot of emaciated dogs running around. Maybe someone with a better grasp on how many grams of protein to feed per pound will add some info.

I feed each of my dogs between 2 to 2.5% of their body weight per day. I use a kitchen scale and I feed them twice a day.

Hope something I’ve added helps.

[pugmomsandy]

There are raw foods with added minerals like Stella & chewy’s and Primal to name a few. Nature’s Variety’s chicken recipe has actually passed feeding trials so I would assume their other recipes are formulated similarly (but it’s just an assumption). Answers (Detailed) has a pork recipe. And fortunately, there are more protein choices as well for raw foods like rabbit, bison and goat. You should be able to find lamb and pork relatively easy. The book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” also includes a recipe for a vitamin/mineral mix to make complete diets. Check out Hare-Today Gone Tomorrow and My Pet Carnivore for meat, organs, grinds and whole prey. A non-fish oil option for omega-3 is algae oil and calamari oil if he has a sensitivity to fish oil as well. There are some dehydrated or freeze-dried options as well like Grandma Lucy’s (not raw) and ZiwiPeak (air-dried).

[emma s]

Hi,

I am looking to switch my 3 year old border terrier to a raw diet
However I am concerned that I will not be able to ensure that he gets all the nutrients and minerals needed. He has been tested for food allergies and has had positive reactions for:

Chicken
Beef
Salmon
Venison
Soy
Cows Milk

With the lack of variety – will I be able to ensure that he has a healthy diet? Should I supplement his diet with other minerals that he will not get from certain meat proteins for example?

Thanks very much for your time

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Dropping in with an update on the cat.

I weighed him today, and he’s up to 12.4 pounds. I’m unsure how much he should weigh, and its hard to judge from all his fluff, but I think this is a pretty good weight for him. I do think he could stand to be a bit thinner, but he’s constantly hungry, and if the cat ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. I feed him at 11 in the morning and 11 at night. I haven’t been giving out much in the way of treats recently, raw or commercial, either. I do want to get some more beef heart for him because he really loved it and I do worry about his teeth. I’ll have to figure out a way to tweak him diets some to get him to drop some weight. I do want to see how he holds this weight though. So the tweaking won’t happen just yet. If he stays steady at this weight, I think I’ll just leave it how it is.

Otherwise, his fur is like silk, and he’s active and lovey (to me, anyways LOL) and does all his normal naughty cat things.

Right now, his daily food line up looks like this:

1) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
2) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
3) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
4) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
5) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
6) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)
7) Science Diet Kitten (3x 3 oz cans)
8) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
9) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
10) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
11) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
12) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)

And then other set just like that. The Sheba and Wellness Complete Health are Turkey, Chicken, and Beef flavors. The Ideal Balance is the venison grain inclusive (he really like this, and its not too bad, just higher carb than I like). The Science Diet Kitten is Liver and Chicken. I’ve got 6 cans of Sheba, 6 cans of Ideal Balance, and 2 cans of Science Diet left over that didn’t fit into the rotation evenly that I can use later. I also got my coupons for Wellness in my email that I’ll be using as soon as I have time to plan that out and find a good deal. He’s not got enough Wellness in his diet right now for my liking, but what I’ve got now will work for now while we go on vacation, and he’s got enough food for the time being.

Oh, and I finally got my $4 off $20 coupon printed out, and Authority isn’t on sale any more 🙁 Wasn’t meant to be, I guess. Oh well. Hopefully next time it goes on sale I can get it.

[Deborah M]

K9 Natural saved me!
I tried everything to get my two Shih Tzus to eat. They would eat to live and that was about it. My local pet store recommended the K9 Natural Venison and Green Tripe. Wow. What a difference. They love it and eat on cue, every morning, and every night. I’ve read blog after blog, review after review, and it seems that almost everyone shares my opinion of this food. You can actually pronounce each ingredient, and they are all quality ingredients. Lastly, I’ve contacted the K9 manufacturer a couple of times with questions since I’m a raw diet newbie. They got back to me with a personal email right away, both times, and answered my question in detail to my satisfaction. Not only it this a great product, but it comes from a great company.

[Dori]

My major concern with your post is that you are saying that Bella has not eaten in four days. Regardless of whether this food is on EC’s choice or not, you have much more to be concerned about.

Please find a food that Bella will eat asap. As far as Lucy is concerned, I too have a dog with Cancer. She is a 15 year old Maltese with bladder and lung cancer. To date she remains asymptomatic. I have done extensive research since her diagnosis three months ago and all roads lead to raw food diet for canine’s with cancer. Fortunately my three dogs have been on raw dog food diet for at least a couple of years now. Obviously because of Hannah’s age and also because she is asymptomatic which have chosen not to go the chemo and radiation route. I have put her on K9 Immunity Plus which has been recommended by many on the various canine cancer sites. I have also added Denamarin to her diet which is a combination of milk thistle and Sam-e. Also I give her turmeric & curcumin daily (helps with inflammation). So far she continues to do well. Eating, drinking, playing, barking at anything that passes by (be it a car, person, or animal). We give her tons and tons of love, massages, and hugs.

Good Luck, I hope all goes well and that you can find a food that your dogs will eat.

Forgot to mention that because I feed my dogs raw, they eat no grains whatsoever. No corn, potatoes, rice, soy. I feed a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet to all my girls. I also feed them organic fruits and veggies as treats. I don’t feed any commercial treats.

I not feed BB or Purina under any circumstances. If you are going to continue to feed a dry food though, you should add water to it. Of course, I would urge commercial raw foods, especially for Lucy, Bella can also certainly benefit from a commercial raw diet. But if not raw, then I would urge you to find a freeze dried or dehydrated dog food.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

If you live near a Pet Smart, they carry Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw. It is a very good commercial raw diet that takes all the guess work out of your preparing raw yourself and wondering how to balance it all out. I feed commercial raw foods and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is one of the foods in my rotation. Others I use are Primal Raw, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Darwin’s (fabulous food and one of the raw foods with the lowest amount of fat that I have found), Vital Essential’s Raw, Answers Detailed Raw. There are quite a few others, just wanted to give you some ideas. Some are more difficult to find, but as I said Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is sold at Petco and Petsmart and a lot of small pet food stores also.

I have read on occasion on this site that some dogs that are prone to seizures are having difficulty with rosemary. So as HDM stated, I too would avoid it. Why take chances.

Also, please go with a grain free food. Dogs have no need for grains, potatoes, rice, corn, soy and, in fact, these ingredients cause many different issues in dogs. Switching to raw made a world of difference with my three dogs.

As HDM stated, traditional vets are not nutritionists. Pay no attention to their advice on feeding unless you are going to a holistic, homeopathic vet. They are very hard to find. And certainly do not feed your dog any of the foods that the traditional vet sells. Very little actual quality (if any at all) real food in what they sell. Pedigree, Purina, Iams are also terrible foods. Lots of fillers and very little quality proteins.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Dori.

[Kat W]

My 5 year old weim Nina just had it done yesterday, vet told me to feed Chappie food, I disagree with ready made dog food, due to the fact of my GSP was on home cooked food sometimes raw and she was in good health for 17 years (!) I am analysing what could cause it and one thing is – dehydration, hot weather, and eating rubbish outside…. Wonder is the foam on dogs mouth while exercising could be and indicator for amount of swollen foam and that will create air lock. :/
Vet told be to rise her bowl for 6 ” …. But opinion says if the dog is healthy don’t rise it- I do have her sister as well…. Feed and look after on the same way…. “Touch wood ” no concerns with her…. And water control amount intake …. It will be a day when they have to stay at home alone and what? I am freaking out at the minute, just joined this forum …. Love the great answers and ideas …. Which I do agree with as they are logic. Ninas vet said that raw diet can lack in fibre, but that can be replaced with blended vegetables …. I believe… Plz let me know what do u think about all of that …. Thank u.

[losul]

Hi again Cyndi.

It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something. It’s only going to take what 2 or 3 days to get any blood work results. So I agree with U.S.A. and all the others, and as I said previously, I wouldn’t make any immediate major dietary changes or assume much, at least until then. And even then if nothing comes up in the bloodwork, your vet will still be biased against your home prepping. It won’t hurt, at least not anything but your pocketbook, to use some commercial prepared raw, in place of some of your home prepped., if that makes everyone feel better. But to just switch immediatelyto a lot of kibble, uh no.

Thanks U.S.A for writing to Steve Brown. I know that heart muscle is not so much considered an organ for the purposes of feeding, and I use alot of beef hearts, many times a majority component of my homemade, but not so sure that Steve’s intent is nutrient rich organs like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, etc would fall into that same category of ” 20% is O.K.” with his pre-mix such as heart muscle would.

Regardless of any of that, i don’t hink it likely that what you have been feeding is causing any kind of major problems, The main thing is that you aren’t feeding bone-in grinds with the pre-mix, I think.

I just wrote Steve asking him to clarify a few more things, actually wrote twice, because I forgot something the first message. I keep a bag of his mix here on the rare occaison that I use if I get lazy, forgetful, etc, for whatever reason don’t want to do the full home prep. I’ve always assumed it was designed to be balanced with muscle meat alone, the instructions don’t say otherwise. I’ve never used liver/other organs with with it. Should it not be believed then that it’s balanced then with using muscle meat alone? It shouldn’t be so ambiguous, IMO.

I know that Know better pet foods has 2 pre-mixes for raw feeding, Better in the raw. One formula MUST have liver added by the user, the other NO liver should be added.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by losul.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Cyndi,

I agree with James. I wouldn’t make any big changes in Bailey’s diet just yet. I’d take a look at those areas that could use some tweaking and make those small changes now. But, I honestly think I would wait to make any big changes until after you get her test results back. It’s never too soon to start researching though.

Now, that said, it sounds like changing Bailey’s diet is something you’ve had a bit of a nagging concern about for at least a little while and I truly believe you have to do what your gut instinct tells you to do. If that means commercial raw or even kibble with toppers, kibble with an ABC day, etc., I support your decision. At the end of the day, you have to have peace and following your conscious is what will get you there.

You have, and will continue to, do right by Bailey.

[Dori]

Hi Cyndi. I’ve been reading this forum and wondering what, if anything, I can add. One…..Wait until blood test results come back. I hope that you had your vet do a complete CBC and also thyroid work up. Thyroid lab results always take a few more days to come back then the rest of tests. Hannah has been hypothyroid for years (loss of hair, etc. etc.). Another thing is that if you can afford it please don’t go with Bravo (recalls and other issues that I have heard about from friends that used to feed Bravo). Primal is an excellent choice. Obviously so is Darwins (in the long run, cheaper that most commercial raw diets). Also Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Natures Variety Instinct Raw. Obviously there are many other fine quality commercial complete and balanced raw diets. Please wait, breathe, and wait for test results. Then……weigh your options. The last option you should go with, imho, is kibble, especially with a dog that has been eating raw. Wait and see what’s going on with Bailey before jumping ship. Keep us posted.

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! Just back from the vet. She did do bloodwork and is sending it off to check her thyroid. Won’t know the results of that for a few days, BUT, as I expected, she thinks Bailey has a nutritional deficiency because of her raw diet. She encouraged me to atleast, if I wanted to keep her on raw, go with a premade raw like Bravo or Primal or something like that, so it’s already balanced.

I was going back and forth in my head the past few months and thinking I might switch her to a good 5 star kibble in the am and either raw of Freshpet or something for dinner. For the year and a half she’s been on raw, I have been wondering if I’m meeting all her nutritional needs. I know she eats better than most dogs, but I don’t want to risk her health in doing so.

So, until I find out different from the blood test, I’m going to assume it’s nutritional related and started shopping around for the best kibble and just do healthy toppers as well. Thanks for everyone’s help! I really appreciate it!

[DogFoodie]

Ensuring that you’re feeding a balanced homemade raw diet is critical. The commercial frozen that you’re feeding is balanced already.

Here are a couple of links that I’d suggest you take a look at to help you decide whether or not you want to pursue homemade raw:

http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

/forums/topic/menus/

You could always consider some of the pre-mixes such as See Spot Live Longer or one of The Honest Kitchen’s base mixes. With a pre-mix as a base, you simply add your own fresh meat and in some cases, oil also.

Here’s some more conversation about using pre-mixes: /forums/topic/vitaminmineral-pre-mixes/

[ella]

I’ve had Ella on a raw diet, using Primal raw patties. The cost is pretty high, about $6/pound, so I supplement with raw meats (chicken pieces with bones, beef, pork, etc.) as well as cooked veggies, like squash, green beans etc.

It occurs to me that I should be able to skip the expensive raw patties and go entirely with human grade meat. Chicken legs are 77cents per pound, I can get scraps of high quality pork chops, both boneless and with bone in, for $1.47 per pound, beef livers are $2 per pound, beef ribs $2.47. So I can give her excellent meat, rather than the ground up, frozen patties.

I live on meat and veggies. IS there any reason a mutt can’t? We’re spending more on the dog to eat than we are on ourselves.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[USA]

The dog you see in my avatar had localized demodectic mange when we first adopted him. He was 4 and a half months old. He had a ring of no hair around both eyes and he was itchy. This is pretty common in puppies as they transition from their mothers immunity and develop their own immune system. I transitioned him from the kibble he came with to the home prepared diet all of my dogs get. His immune system developed and held the mites in check without any drugs or medications.

All dogs have mites it’s just that a healthy immune system usually keeps them in check and no symptoms appear. It is possible that your dog will need some help in restoring balance but my first choice would be a home prepared diet of 75% meat (including about 10% organs) and 25% non-starchy vegetables and a little fruit. A good starting book to read on preparing a home made diet would be Steve Browns See Spot Live Longer. All recipes that do NOT contain bone can be lightly cooked or served raw. I would start with lightly cooked while his immune system develops and then if you like you can ease him onto a completely raw diet or continue with a lightly cooked one.

Good Luck with your new addition!!!

[Barbara O]

It seems this year is really a problem. More and more dogs are having, itching, loss of hair, even dry hair. In our part of the southwest, we have dry weather whereas in Texas, my grandson has hot, humid weather…seems the summer is the problem…So…is your raw diet one that you haven’t mixed yourself or is it from something like Raw Instinct or Primal? There is a difference…. Sometimes just waiting and using the least amoount of balanced food can make a difference. I’ll go back and try to find the complete raw diet you’re using…

[Barbara O]

JENNIFER….Who did the testing? What was the testing called? I’m skeptical….you might try to put the dog on a raw diet temporarily…Natural Instinct has a frozen raw food that is balanced…also Primal is wonderful…It is frozen, raw, balanced food. You can look at the different raw meats….Some foods are very hot while others are very cool. My friend has a dog who has all sorts of problems…It has a disease that means the dog can only eat certain foods. She went to the Primal Duck and the dog is doing better than it ever has…She uses an expensive kibble that is human grade and then she uses the Primal…it seems to do the trick…It’s hard to eat a raw diet and have it balanced so if you can, try feeding the raw balanced diet…It might do the trick.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Barbara O. In my second post, I wrote what I feed her. She is on a raw diet and she gets a few raw eggs per week, as well as tinned sardines a few times a week. I also give her coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil when she get the Dr. Harvey’s Veg 2 bowl occasionally.

[Barbara O]

How much quality oil is the dog getting? Most dog foods have to limit the amount of fat they put in dog foods due to danger of rancidity. My grandson’s lab began doing the same thing. They took her to the vet and she was treated for allergies. I sent them some salmon oil and recommended they add a whole raw egg to the diet. She has cleared except for one small spot. I volunteer for Great Dane rescue and we have been having the same problems with the Danes…dandruff and itching. I began feeding the one I have just adopted the salmon oil and a raw egg at both feedings. He is slicking off, the itching has all but subsided and his coat is becoming shiny. He has been on the egg for over a month and the salmon oil was started last week. Please don’t be afraid to feed the eggs. Several years ago I had several orphaned puppies that were brought to me. I lived close to a vet school and was taken courses there…I talked to one of my professors and he recommended I mix a concoction to feed the puppies…this was whole egg, canned evaporated milk and raw hamburger meat. I also added baby vitamin drops. The pups grew, were shiny and had no health problems…
Sometimes keeping the diet simple is the best. Our dogs are canines…carnivores…they aren’t meant to eat a diet of grains and too much vegetables…
I own a genet and he eats Primal frozen raw…It has some ground veggies in it…I’ve been doing rescue of one sort or another for years…dogs, cats, wild animals…almost all have been carnivores….A very old vet told me one time to feed an animal as close to his native diet as possible…this eliminates many digestive problems. So…I feed grain free food…I have to keep the feeding pans around that slow down the eating process for many of the Danes I get…they have been half starved and abused…they eat so fast food can come back up…Amazon has some wonderful stainless steel ones.

Always feed the dry food wet…not mushy….just wet. Have you ever tried to gobble down a sandwich too fast? It sticks in the throat…This happens to dogs…puppies and grown dogs need moist food…In the wild they would never eat totally dry feed…You can add a small amount of raw veggies to the dry food. My doesn’t like the veggies but the other Danes I’ve rescued love them…One ate broccoli and cauliflower as a treat…Also..someone mentioned gas….eating and gulp air causes gas…

[Cyndi]

Hi guys, I need some help. I believe Bailey has all of a sudden developed an intolerance to something she’s eating because she has been itching and shedding BAD for the past few months and now I’m noticing bald patches on her sides. 🙁 An intolerance to some food is the only cause I can think of as to why, so I think I should start an elimination diet but I don’t know how. She eats all different kinds of things, how would I go about this? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half now and the only thing new that I’ve given her recently has been goat. I don’t think it’s that though, because I think her shedding and itching started before I started giving her the goat.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Darren S]

I have a Bullmastiff puppy on the way. Im looking for recommendations on puppy food? Don’t want to do a raw diet. Thank you.

[Debra J H]

If you really want top notch, Darwin’s raw food has some specialty diets now and has one for kidney issues. I do know this is a very serious condition. I too have Cavaliers and know of three Cavaliers who got protein losing enteropathy after eating tainted kibble. One was getting the Iams recalled and two others got it after being put on Science Diet ID.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Debra J H.

[Corinne M]

Hi Liz,
I just read your post – I’m so sorry, I know it is anxiety producing to find a lump on your dog!! Here’s what I know, hopefully it will make you feel better until you can get to the vet…I’ve had Golden Retrievers in the past who developed fatty tumors (lipomas) as they got older. That was back in the days before I was feeding homemade & raw. The vet would always say that its nothing to worry about, it was common for the breed and as long as it didn’t bother the dog leave it alone. Back then, that’s what I did – and I can honestly say that those dogs lived long happy lives & for the most part I don’t think the lipomas ever really bothered them and certainly didn’t interfere with their quality of life. Then about 4 years ago, I had 2 Golden Retriever puppies – and 1 of them developed a lump that was BIG. And he was young. My initial thought was, “well, he’s a Golden & they are prone to these things”. But it just felt really wrong to me in such a young dog – and sure enough, when the vet did a needle biopsy on him, the result was different, this time it was not fatty, but was blood filled – called a sarcoma. Turns out this dog had a really weak immune system, and the lump was right at the injection site where he had his latest vaccines. The good news is, we caught it early and it alerted me to a bigger issue – his immune system. That’s when I changed diet, vaccines, etc. When you go to the vet, you’ll know more – it may be just another fatty bump, but the location seems to indicate that maybe its related to the vaccine or the chip implant. His body may be responding to the foreign “stuff” that was injected, and the bump may resolve as his body recovers and assimilates it. But if it’s a reaction, that’s something to pay attention to – most dogs don’t get a reaction, so you may want to look into why yours did this time. Maybe it’s a fluke, or maybe there are ingredients in the vaccine that your dog doesn’t tolerate well. That was the case for my dog. But there’re some things that I’ve discovered along the way – first, not all dogs can tolerate the “one size fits all” vaccine protocol. And there are alternatives, such as titer testing, following a “minimal” protocol, and using only thimerosal-free vaccines when you do have to vaccine. I’ve had many friends tell me their vets “don’t do” titer testing or thimerosal-free… but there are labs that you can use, where you get the lab order from them, have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send the blood to them for titer testing. It’s no different from what your vet already does – they are just shipping to your lab of choice instead of to their usual lab. Same thing with the vaccine – you order it and have it sent to your vet in advance. The other thing is, the reaction my dog had gave me a “heads-up” to have his immune system checked. There’s a great organization called Hemopet (www.hemopet.org) that did a comprehensive immune system analysis on my dog & the director, Dr. Jean Dodds did a personal review for no additional cost – she sent me a report that explained the results in great detail and provided me with a list of supplements to correct his immune deficiency. She talked with me by phone & email over the next couple months while I got my dog stabilized at no additional cost. It completely changed my dogs health and was money well spent!. As an aside, the immune testing order form doesn’t come up on their website so you’ll have to call or email and ask them how to order it. Again, your vet draws the blood and sends it to their lab or to Cornell University…I forget which, but the order form has the shipping instructions on it.
Bottom line – the fact that you caught it so early means you can deal with it and get to them bottom of it. Taking charge over it will go a long way toward alleviating the stress and anxiety you are feeling right now. I promise!
Best to you & your pup!

[Lilmonster]

Question about the pumpkin – I’ve been doing an approximately 50-50 beef pumpkin mix because I saw it suggested somewhere as a food elimination diet, but wondering if I continue to feed so much pumpkin if she’ll end up constipated from all the fiber? Currently it’s roughly 6 or 7 oz of pumpkin to 8 oz meat, twice a day. I’m thinking the answer to this is going to be “as long as her poops look fine then it’s ok” – someone correct me if I’m wrong please!

Actually, I feel kind of silly asking this but what exactly constitutes dog constipation? How many days of no poops would be considered abnormal? I’ve noticed Lily is already pooping MUCH less since we switched her to raw – we used to call her poop monster. I’m kind of amazed at the difference. So much unnecessary stuff in that kibble!

[Lilmonster]

Never mind about my first and second questions everyone, they’ve been resolved!

FYI to any other newbies out there feeling lost or thinking about buying one of the recommended raw books, Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats just arrived in the mail today, and taking a quick flip through it I already feel so relieved. I was on the fence about buying it because I had already read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and still felt confused, so I was worried that getting another book with more information would just add to the overwhelmingness. Fortunately, it’s really well organized and gives menu plans that are easy to follow, as well as detailed information about essential and optimal vitamins and minerals. While Steve Brown’s book is also very informative, it wasn’t quite as straightforward, at least to me.

[USA]

Hi Liz and Mr Lou!

You have very good instincts and Mr Lou is lucky to have you! And of course you are lucky to have Mr Lou!

The frozen green tripe is an excellent source of digestive enzymes and should eliminate the need for adding digestive enzymes to Mr Lou’s diet. Because he received an antibiotic shot which kills the good as well as the bad bacteria I would add probiotics to help replenish his gut. I use this one from Vitacost and it looks like they deliver to Canada.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-probiotic-15-35-35-billion-cfu-60-vegetarian-capsules-9

Start slowly. Half a capsule every other day added to his largest meal. If everything is Okay after 6 days you can go to 1 capsule a day sprinkled on his food. After a month you can reduce it to 1 capsule every other day if you’d like.

k9choicefoods looks like a good food. I couldn’t find the numbers for Protein and Fat but I like the way they raise their animals and their quality seems outstanding.

I would stay away from kibble for multiple reasons. It is a super processed food that is as far away from raw as you can get. The quality will NEVER come close to the raw food you are feeding Mr Lou and feeding a whole food in it’s natural form without any alterations or processing is the absolute best in my opinion.

The Honest Kitchen uses quality ingredients but their foods are too heavy in carbs for my liking. And with any food that has it’s moisture removed who knows exactly how long it takes to re-hydrate it 100% or if it is even possible to re-hydrate it 100%. I just wouldn’t take the chance if I were you. But if you do use a dry food use very little and re-hydrate at least for 24 hours.

The water you understand so just keep up the GOOD WORK and keep drinking while eating or after exercise to a bare minimum. There is mixed evidence on raised feeders but I tend to agree that if you use raised bowls it will allow more gulping or air so I don’t recommend them.

Sardines contain the fish oil you are looking for in a whole food form which is always better than a supplement. Mr Lou is a big boy so after starting really slow a 3 oz tin (packed in water) once or twice a week should be good. If Mr Lou doesn’t like sardines then 2 fish oil capsules daily should be fine.

For supplementing plain raw meat I would use Steve Brown’s dinner mix and not a dehydrated food like Preference by The Honest Kitchen (carbs and re-hydration again)

Here’s to a healthy and happy life for both Mr Lou and you (it rhymes)!!!!!!!

[Kritterlady]

Love your well thought out questions Lilmonster! In my experience feeding raw to 2 older dogs and one 2 yr old I vary the diet so so as not to cause the problems you mention. As natural scavengers dog benefit from variation. So they eat a variety of fruit and veg in season, eggs when my hens produce well and quality meats with bones in. By feeding clean quality foods, and yes, on occasion quality dog food I have healthy active 11 yr old German shepherd and 12 yr old pit shepherd mix and 2 yr old Doberman. All alergies cleared up and they run the farm like puppies. Also since their food changes regularly there is no pickiness. I continue to read extensively and ask many questions and refine my efforts but the proof is in the vitality of my dogs.

[Lilmonster]

Hi everyone!

Another lurker here eager and (almost) ready to make the switch to raw. Like other newbies, I have so much respect for everyone here for not only committing so much time and effort to their fur babies, but also taking the time to answer endless, potentially stupid questions from nervous dog moms like me! I would never even have known about raw diets, let alone been able to work up the nerve to take the plunge if it weren’t for this forum, so thanks to all of you!

Some background info: My fiancé and I just adopted our little one, Lily, two months ago from a rescue. She’s 41 lbs and the vet estimates her age at around 1, much younger than the rescue thought – her teeth were pretty yellow when we first got her but presumably because she wasn’t given anything to chew on to clean plaque, so they thought she was 2 yrs 8 months (!), which leads me to think she sadly may have been malnourished as a puppy since they were feeding her as an adult. As soon as we gave her bones and chew toys her teeth became pearly white. Anyway, we switched her to Fromm’s Surf and Turf kibble when we got her, but we noticed she started itching more and more. Took her to the vet to ask about the itchiness as well as a suspected UTI, but the diagnosis for the itching was understandably vague. We’re not sure if it’s a food allergy or environmental – she doesn’t have fleas, and we’re pretty sure it’s not a yeast issue. She doesn’t smell yeasty at all and I think the vet would have picked up on that. So after a recent bout of diarrhea due to too many high fat treats after a training session, I figured it would be a good time to begin the transition to raw after her system cleared up. I fasted her for a meal then fed her a mixture of white rice and pumpkin for two meals, which brought her poos back to normal, then began feeding her a 50-50 mix of ground turkey and pumpkin with the See Spot Live Longer mix added in. The vet is holistic and also trained in Chinese medicine, and she suggested that I switch to beef instead of turkey since chicken and turkey is considered “hot” and could be contributing to the itchiness, so yesterday I made the switch to ground beef and her poo was still fine this morning. But then I remembered reading somewhere (I think on preymodelraw) that it’s not recommended to start with beef, but I think for the time being I’ll stick with it just to avoid changing her diet too many times (unless anyone here would strongly advise against starting with beef?). At the moment, her daily food (divided into two meals) is 1 lb 90% lean ground beef + 2 tbsp SSLL + 1/2 tsp hempseed oil + 1 tsp coconut oil (just started adding it) + 1 human probiotic. She is also currently on a one week course of antibiotics for the urinary problem.

I have Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, ordered the Dr. Becker’s book, and have read through many of the threads on this forum but like other newbies I’m getting lost in all the information and feeling as overwhelmed as Cyndi was in the thread where she first started, lol. I’m thinking of sticking to the ground boneless meat with the See Spot Live Longer mix for a bit while I figure out all the supplements that are needed and place my meat orders. A few questions that I’d really appreciate if someone could help out with:

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

– This may be a bit much to ask, but if one of the veterans has the time to respond I would be so grateful. Could someone make a list of the essential vitamins/minerals (or alternatively, foods that will provide those vitamins and minerals) that MUST be added to a diet that consists of boneless meat in the AM and RMBs in the PM, and the approximate amounts? This is the part I’m feeling especially in over my head with. Vitamin D, vitamin E, fish oil, manganese, so many different things I’m seeing that they need, it’s hard to not feel kind of scared to do it all from scratch, which is my eventual goal. I think I’m having a hard time figuring out what is absolutely necessary vs. optional but ideal.

– So from what I’ve read so far it seems to be a good idea to start her on chicken backs and quarters, then begin alternating boneless meat every other meal. How many meals should I feed the backs and quarters before I begin incorporating boneless meals? Also, should I already be giving her supplements during this time, or should I wait until she adjusts then begin adding supplements. As for stuff like organ meats, heart, and green tripe, how long should I wait before beginning to incorporate those? I promise I have read the other threads, but I’ve seen a few different recommendations on timelines so I thought I’d pose the question again just so I can be clear about it.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time to answer my questions!

[Corinne M]

Hi Jennifer,
I’m so glad to hear that the info was helpful – I remember how hard & overwhelming it was for me to learn about pancreatitis when it my dog was going through it. So it’s nice to know that someone else can make use of what I learned. I’m sorry to her about your experience with the vet – I think I just lucked out with mine. But I don’t want to leave you with the impression that your vet did anything wrong in prescribing Prednisone, because I think that it’s something that is widely used to treat specific problems, but just like any drug or herbal remedy, there are times & cases when it’s just better to avoid it – an argument could be made that giving your dog a corticosteroid so that he’s not in constant misery from the itchiness is a compassionate thing to do. The flip side is, there are risks associated with using it and if the “itchies” can be eliminated through diet & supplements maybe that’s worth trying.
I also don’t know why they are pushing Royal Canin – maybe they’ve had other dogs do well on it and think it’s the right thing for Milo. But I agree with you, if you suspect it’s triggering allergies it’s worthwhile to look at other foods.
My dog’s are doing great on what I feed them – I alternate between homecooked, home-prepare raw, and commercially prepare raw. But here’s the thing – I only started doing this about 4 years ago because one of my dogs had a blown-out immune system & I had to learn how to feed him in a way that was anti-inflammatory, avoided chemicals, avoided allergens, etc. etc. And to be honest, I have made mistakes along the way that could have done more harm than good (for example, I got the phosphorus/calcium ratio totally wrong for awhile and only discovered it after labwork came back with creatinine levels waaaaay high – I could have caused kidney failure in my dogs if that had not been caught & corrected). And I still consider myself to be learning – so I keep a close eye on them and read everything I can get my hands on and keep it simple and safe. I will do some research for you & report back what I find, but in the meantime, keep up your search for a nutritionally complete & balanced high-quality commercial food that meets the requirements for Milo’s pancreas.
I do think a simple boiled chicken & rice diet is useful when dogs are sick – fewer ingredients to upset their system. But, the recommended fat ratio for a dog with damaged pancreas is REALLY specific so I would only home cook right now if I knew for certain that the recipe I used was safe in terms of fat ratio. The recipe I used after Max had pancreatitis was formulated for me to deal with his other issues but I’ll look for info on a basic safe recipe for you.
BTW: Thanks to the other posters who found my post helpful. I learn so much from you all and from this website! I really appreciate the resources & people here!
Corinne

[Liz W]

I have fed my dog, 9 yr.old GSD, 117lbs a diet of raw (various pre-made brands as well as prey style from local butcher) and a small amount of Honest Kitchen (no grain) mixed with about 1 cup grain free kibble split into two meals, raw in morning and kibble mix in evening for several years. I started looking into diet when I first adopted him from the shelter as he had Perianal Fistulas as well as skin issues (prob allergy based). The PF’s have been in remission for about 4 years now and the skin issues improve every year.
Three weeks ago he bloated and required GDV surgery. I fear it was the dinner, kibble base that was a contributing factor so I’m paranoid about going back to that. Although I’ve always been very careful regarding feeding, no exercise around feeding, limited water at feeding time etc to prevent bloat… it still happened. He has lost 14lbs after this surgery so I need to start getting some weight back on him.
Now we are post surgery and trying to find a diet I feel comfortable with. We travel a fair amount ( 6 months) and I had no luck finding fresh meat on the road (can’t hunt down local butchers as we need to stay to the large freeways due to the size of our RV). I can’t seem to find meat that doesn’t contain salt. (Walmart and similar is the main shopping place when we travel, just off the hwy that we can fit in the parking lot.) Thus I can only fill our small freezer from home with some pre-made raw patties (compact for transporting) and have to carry dehydrated, canned or kibble to have enough food with us until I can replenish the raw meat portion.
I am trying to keep him on mostly raw pre-made right now. I have just tried to go from 3 feedings of about 10 -12 oz to two feedings of 15-16oz. I added a small amount of kibble 1/3 cup to his dinner portion for the last 4 days and he did fine. Last night I feed a bit larger amount of kibble 2/3cup (mixed with HK) and he slept well but seemed off this morning and tried to vomit. (nothing came up)
I just fed him a 10 oz meal of raw only and plan to stay with 3 small meals and see if that helps.
I give him a raw meaty rib bone once a week but have not started that yet as I’m not sure if that would be too hard on him stomach. Not sure about when I can start that at all.
Does anyone have any experience with feeding a GSD raw POST GDV surgery? Any suggestions to bring my boy back to health and avoid another bloat episode would be greatly appreciated. I’m also wondering about starting him on some probiotics or enzymes but read mixed opinions on the need for them when feeding raw.
Any ideas?
Thank you,
Liz

[fey W]

Raw is less wasteful, cheaper and much easier. On raw the dog gets to eat zero carbs and chew on bones to naturally keep teeth clean and possibly sugar levels more stable. It is low in ingredients so perfect for allergy prone dogs.

My dog is currently eating cooked food. I had to cook up a whole chicken and bone it, cook up pork and chop those meats, cook up hamburger and rice and mix together along with a small amount of liver and add in a calcium source, some bits of this and that to balance the diet. Then I had to go back to the original amount of raw ingredients to figure out how many meals that would be and divide accordingly so I won’t over/under feed her pack up in 2 day packets and freeze. On raw I give her boneless red meat and every 2-4 days she gets a bit of raw bony meat plus organ along with the same supplements I have to give her with a cooked diet minus the calcium of course. She loves it all but sure has more enjoyment from the raw.

Never heard that dogs get snappy if taken off raw. Many dogs get possessive of raw bits so practicing trading is a great idea. Many people only find out their dogs can be possessive when some delicious raw bony thing is given, even rawhides, bully sticks don’t have the same value.

My lucky never ever had any parasites from raw feeding or fleas or ticks or contaminated water, Sassy once got a tapeworm from eating a flea. Raw meat from the store is very safe. I have always cooked raw meat and it is very easy to keep juices contained and the kitchen clean, lots of water and soap.

A great primer on raw feeding is here.
http://www.chanceslittlewebsite.com/prey-model-raw.html

[Corinne M]

I say maybe it is, maybe it’s not. More importantly, your vet says it is…or rather, your vet says your dog needs a specific diet right now to address the BUN/Creatinine results. Feeding a raw or homemade diet is the “best thing” for your dog only if it is supporting your dog’s wellness. Creating a nutritionally complete recipe plus providing the right supplements is tricky — especially when your trying to address kidney issues. There are many exceptional commercially prepared foods (look at 5 start rated reviewed foods here on this site) that might be better suited for your dog right now – could be raw, freeze-dried, canned or dry. The point is, it needs to specifically address the health problem. The other things I would look into & discuss with my vet would be:
– how did these test results compare to his prior bloodwork?
-did he fast before having the blood drawn?
-what did his other levels look like? Calcium? Phosphorus? Sodium:Potassium ratio?
– Is his BUN level in the “normal range for raw-fed dogs?
– was protein detected in the urine sample?
And I would ask my vet, “If I were to change his diet as you suggest, what do you expect we will see on the next test? How long do you think it will take to see a change?”
I feed raw. I’m an advocate of feeding raw. At the same time, I trust my vet and when he tells me there is an issue I tend to believe him.

[Ben M]

I just got a Bouvier puppy and was looking for a good dog food. After looking through some documents and doing some research I was leaning to the Nature’s Variety Instinct: Limited Ingredient Diet Turkey…when I went to the site to verify my decision (I saw they had reformulated recently) I found the calcium levels higher than what i thought was recommended at 1.9%

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-grain-free-limited-ingredient-kibble-dog-food-turkey

The have a large breed puppy formula which looks better….however the 1.2%(min) throws me a little as to what the (max) would be

http://www.instinctpetfood.com/product/instinct-raw-boost-grain-free-kibble-large-breed-puppy-food-chicken

Can someone help me out…maybe I’m looking at it wrong?

[tapiskootskiyas t]

Hi Glen B.
As my user name implies, yes I am a musher.
I can only speak from my own experiences so please keep in mind I “ain’t no perfeshnl”.
That in mind, I can see you truly want to honor this responsibility you’ve accepted.
Lotsa KUDOs to you.

I can honestly say tho that as humans we have a tendency to overfeed our dogs and sadly with too often the wrong types of food.
Why???…. because we think they are always hungry.
Not really the case.
I can go around my kennel with 10lb chunks of meat feeding as I go.
If I have any left and any of my dogs see that they will act as they are starving.
They will go so far in their starving act as to stash their meal and go argue with their brother or aunt or…just to try muscle away some more.
I feed fat more only towards fall and during winter. Just raw, unadulterated fat.
Beef, moose, pork, deer, all kinds of foul….you name it.
I use it mainly as a source of heat energy for my dogs.
Matter of fact, I do the same for myself. More butter, fatty cuts of meat, nuts, fish.
And more amino acids. Don’t, repeat Do Not feed raw egg to your dog. It depletes their amino acid levels. 1 scrambled egg per day is great. Yes, in the wild they would eat them if they found them. But they would also instinctively know where and how to increase their amino acids to balance.
I am 56 years young, smoke 1-8 cigs per day, 5’9″ tall, weigh 180, wear sz32 pants(with long johns under) & 44-46 jacket, snowshoe my trails(pack them for my team)…..
I can go on for quite some about my activity level but…
My point is, if my dog seems happy and healthy I would assume he most likely ain’t sick and suffering. Dogs don’t lie.
Also, if the vet couldn’t find worms or any other affliction your dog is most likely good to go.
It takes time to build lean, strong muscle. Fat builds up a lot quicker.
Point in question, I have seen but 1 “over weight” runner in many years following the marathons, sitting on my couch watching the TV, NOT!!.lol
Most chicken today is raised ii intense farming methods. They are butchered young, about 6-8 weeks of age. Older chickens have a higher level of amino acids. Hence the more wholesome flavour in soup made from a worn out layer or an open-range grazed, 6 month or year old.
Most beef are slaughtered on their second year, even if they are “feedlot beef”. Also, yes, beef is higher fat content. Since you get your chicken cheap, maybe ask a butcher for some beef and/or pork fat trimmings. Probably get it free. I do.
My dogs get extreme trotties from milk and milk products. Just about killed a whole team once. “watered” them with watered down baby formula thonking “energy”…. went mushing away in the bush miles from home. If they weren’t loyal to me and follow me, I wouldn’t have had the heart to go on without them…. wouldn’t be telling this big long story to you today.lol
My (approx)recipe for active working dog from 50-80 pounds, daily, in winter 4-7 lbs red meat, about 8-16 oz raw fat, cook 1 tbsp rice(I use WildRice), I cooked egg, 1 tsp raw veg oil, 1/8 tsp doggie vitamins, and always fresh water.
The red meat has liver kidney, heart and lung in accordance with whole animal weights.
Actually, I now feed my dogs whole animal diet. Viscera, epiderma, skeletal, the whole works, including(not excluding much of anything) goose, duck, pork, moose, fish, deer, elk, etc., etc..
Cheaper and easier, and yes, healthier .
However, my dogs are pure northern spitz breeds of sled dogs. For all intensive purposes, practically domesticated wolves.
I won’t and can’t promise all this info will work for Pitbull, but I can ascertain to you that all domestic dogs are 90%-99% wolf DNA.
Please reconsider the raw eggs. It is actually cuts down on the body’s ability to convert food to usable energy, not very healthy for dogs.
Whole raw fish is an excellent diet. Just cut off thorns, horns, barbles form the likes of catfish.
I am truly sorry if my “novel” has bored, offended, angered, insulted, or hurt you in any way.
My intention is to assist other dog lovers assist their dogs to have a healthy, long life.
Please take what you can use.
HAGD
Musher.. out for now

[Cyndi]

I agree with Heather, raw feeding is the best you can do for your dog. Most vets don’t like raw feeding because it keeps dogs healthier usually and out of their offices.

Someone else hopefully can chime in and help you out and let you know what else you should be doing.

I can suggest taking a look at Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” or “Real Food for Healthy Dog’s and Cats” by Dr. Karen Becker. Maybe those might help you out some…

[Heather M]

I’d say it is absolutely not caused by the raw you are feeding, but more than likely a genetic preponderance in your dog to have kidney issues. My one critique would be the quality of your protein. I’d choose something that was naturally low fat like rabbit. And I personally don’t care for chicken as a protein source, given the way it is processed in this country. Actually, beef as well…Lots of factors may contribute to his high BUN levels. I don’t think it’s the raw diet, but moreover your protein choices and possibly your dog’s predisposition to kidney problems.

[Michelle B]

Hello!

I have a 3 year old lab/hound mix who chews his feet raw, needs me to express his anal glands manually monthly, is prone to ear infections, and commonly has dandruff. I have concluded this is due to food allergies (his littermates have diagnosed food allergies). I know I should get it officially diagnosed, I just want to do my own research before I have a vet tell me to buy Royal Canin or Hills for money making purposes.

Here’s my dilemma:
He has eaten lamb and rice food, chicken and potato, and now salmon and sweet potato. I have revisited previous ingredient culprits in the “grain free”, “filler free”, and “no by-product” versions no avail. I want to avoid hydrolyzed foods as long as possible because I’m just not comfortable with the high level of processing and chemicals.

Should I try a holistic kibbles made from kangaroo (etc), attempt a raw diet, or just cut to the hydrolyzed chase?

Also, if I start a raw diet, should I avoid previous allergens, or should I revisit them in hopes that naturalness of it would avoid a reaction?

Thank you so much!

[desiree s]

hi,
i converted my 8 yr old papillon to raw food about 6 months ago.
However his recent blood test showed extremely high kidney BUN readings of 41mg/dl and low creatinine readings of 0.4mg/dl.
My vet has always been against raw feeding and instructed me to immediately switch to a low protein renal kibble diet.
However, after much calculation i realised my raw home made diet only has about 15% protein..
Here is the recipe i use for 28 days of food:
Raw chicken breast and minced 1878g (56%)
Raw beef minced 336g (10%)
Canned green tripe 390g (11.6%)
Chicken heart and liver 252g (7.5%)
Romaine lettuce, red bell pepper, carrot 504g (15%)
Topping of steamed pumpkin or sweet potato.
2 tspn ground egg shell
(No bones given as he has no teeth and refuses to try and chew bones)

As he is fed about 120g of food each day, i calculated his protein intake from above should be about 18g.

Am really confused as he is extremely picky and loves his raw food but his blood test results show such risk of kidney problems that i am afraid to continue with raw feeding too!
Is there something wrong with my recipe?

[Corinne M]

Personally, although I feed my dogs raw, I wouldn’t presume to try to convince anyone to do the same. It’s messy – and sometimes it’s just a pain in the neck! When I am busy (or lazy), I buy prepared raw dog food that includes only high quality, human-grade ingredients and I find the warnings and disclaimers about “contamination” slightly hilarious since it’s the same stuff I buy at the butcher’s counter to feed my family. Some of the “cautions” make it sound like I’m bringing a nuclear weapon into my kitchen – when in fact it only contains fresh, ground meat & vegetables.
If you are avoiding a raw diet because the of the safety questions, I can tell you that high quality, fresh, human-grade foods are safe for you to handle & for your pup to eat. If, on the other hand, you are avoiding raw dog food because your pup had a hard time digesting it, I would tell you that there some great resources (this website especially) that can give you some suggestions on how to transition your pup off commercial kibble if that’s your goal. And, if you and your pup find kibble works best for you, there are also some great articles here about how to select an excellent quality dry or freeze dried dog food. In the end, the fact that you are even posting on this site makes me think that you are probably already feeding your pets a lot better than 99% of pet owners out there because you are clearly concerned with nutrition & wellness.
Best of luck in whatever path you decide upon.
Corinne

[Corinne M]

Hi Ashlee,
I feel compelled to respond to your post because I also found this site when I got interested in dog nutrition after one of my dogs developed health issues…and to be honest, it hasn’t been an easy road. However, I can tell you that the journey has resulted in major improvements in all of my dogs’ health & wellness. And I’m committed to continuing the journey – but it’s daunting at times, expensive (but the costs are offset by reduced vet bills), and sometimes overwhelming. I made some mistakes along the way, mostly in trying to get the supplements right & balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio in homemade/raw feeding – but fortunately, my dogs are healthy and thriving on a natural diet. So if my experience can help others to avoid some of the pitfalls along the way, that would be great.

So here’s my 2 cents based on what I read above: I would start with Cookie, since she has cancer & arthritis (and is over weight) I think she’s in greatest need. This may be “off subject”, but the first thing I would do is cease any vaccines completely. Her immune system is compromised by the cancer, so your vet should be able to give you a waiver if you need one in order to keep her “tags” current – if your local jurisdiction wont accept a vet’s waiver, you can pay for titer testing in lieu of vaccination. But to be honest, I don’t think you would/should have to go thru that expense ( I can elaborate if you need help getting around city requirements). Next I would get a consult with Dr. Jean Dodds at Hemolife http://www.hemopet.org/veterinary-diagnostic-laboratory.html
you can do this by phone or email if you are not located in southern California. Call her and explain Cookie’s situation & that you are looking to switch her diet. She can tell you what labwork would be appropriate to determine a course of action (especially testing Cookie’s immune system & inflammatory issues) you can print the lab order from her website & have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send it to her for the testing. Ask her to call you with the results and her recommendations – she can tell you what supplements to use to assist with Cookie’s immune support & inflammation/ arthritis. I would ask Dr. Dodds about raw feeding for Cookie – if her immune system is an issue, you may want to buy a high quality prepared raw food like Bravo Balance http://www.bravorawdiet.com/product/balance/index.html and *lightly* cook it – just enough to be extra safe. Of course, getting Cookie’s weight down to optimum level will help with the arthritis – if you feed her the Bravo Balance at the amount appropriate to her *ideal* weight, her weight should normalize in a few months without her feeling deprived. Bravo’s website has a feeding calculator you can use to determine the amount to feed – just remember to plug in her ideal weight, not her actual weight. Here’s a link: http://www.bravorawdiet.com/product/feeding/howmuch.html
I only suggest a prepared raw diet because it takes a lot of the guesswork out of feeding a “nutritionally complete” raw diet – and it sounds like Cookie needs help ASAP. As for cost, assuming Cookie’s ideal weight was 60 pounds, you would feed 1.2 lbs of food per day and I think a 5 lb chub of their balanced brand is like $27 – so her food would be about $42 per week. When I make raw/homemade my cost is about $2 to $5 per pound, depending on my protein source (and not including cost of supplements). Expensive – but I’ve saved a TON on vet bills; my dogs never get skin issues or yeast infections anymore.

As for the other dogs and your journey to switch to raw, there are some great resources here on this site and suggestions for other resources – just read everything you can get your hands on and learn about the diet/wellness connection. If you find it challenging at first maybe switch first to a home made diet, then take the leap to raw when you are ready. At least with home cooked you have control over your ingredients & can deal with specific ailments (like Mia’s yeast infections) by eliminating foods that are common culprits for yeast imbalances.
Best of luck to you in your journey!
Corinne

[Dori]

Melissa I am so sorry to hear your sad news. Hopefully your pup will remain asymptomatic and with a loving mom like yourself will live a long happy life.

Losul: I too would never put any of my dogs on prednisone without a definitive reason and after getting at minimum a second opinion. Putting pup on those meds is only masking what the real problem is which I believe is probably something in the food she’s feeding.

Lisa C: I would not put my dog if it was vomiting on a daily basis on any type of medication whatsoever without knowing definitively what the problem is. Nor would I have an endoscopy done on a dog that is in the condition that your dog is in. I don’t think he’d survive the surgery. My advice to you is to introduce slowly a commercial raw diet staying away from chicken and all poultry in the title and further down in the ingredient list. I’m not saying that poultry is the culprit but if that’s what I’m feeding then I would change the protein. Commercial raw foods that I feed are Natures Variety Instinct Raw, Primal Formula raw, Vital Essentials raw, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Answers Detailed, Darwin’s Raw (only available on line directly from them on an auto order basis). Stay away from poultry, commercial raws are grain free (dogs do not need grains), stay away from white potato and tomatoes. The last two are inflammatory and your poor dog does not need anything to cause more inflammation that it’s going through. I would go to the store, buy one of the raws, also some digest enzyme, a can of pure pumpkin (not pie filling type) and immediately start transitioning your dog to a commercial raw food. Yes, of course your dog is going to initially have some diarrhea that will be due to his physical condition and the switch but that will right itself pretty quickly. I don’t mean to scare you but if your own vet is telling you that your dog looks like a survivor of a concentration camp and also won’t do surgery then I really don’t know what your waiting for to make the food change. Though I typically agree with ACV, I don’t in a case of constant vomiting due to its acidic nature that is worse coming up then going down. This is from my own personal experience with my illness and nausea and vomitting.

I don’t mean to sound so harsh and as if I’m scolding but I’m really quite concerned about your dog. I only found this particular forum today. I can’t believe has long this has been allowed to continue.

[tapiskootskiyas t]

Melissa.
I use a dog team to haul wood, hunt, go to the store. Not because I’m secluded but because I want a small enviro footprint and of course I love dogs.
Dogs are 99% wolf DNA. Dogs are omnivores that are just about 90% carnivore. They ain’t like a bear.. …or a pig.
I have fed my dogs whole carcasses of deer, moose elk, beef, pork, goose, rabbit, you name it, whole fish is awesome, beaver, excellent.
The first thing they(dogs((and wolves))go for is the liver, kidneys, heart and lungs. The dogs then go for the fatty net looking thing around the stomach/s and guts. Of course the dogs ingest some of the plant food matter that is in the digestive tract of.
Sorta the same as when humans eat a salad.
Dogs don’t make up their own amino acids which is why I don’t feed raw eggs to mine.
I had noticed my dogs do not eat about the last 3 feet(in a larger animal)of the big gut (just before the anus).
But they do eat everything else, epecially with deer, moose and the larger wild 4 leggeds but do pretty ell the same with rabbit and fowl.
I decided to look more closely. In the gut the pellets(poop) have a greenish slimy substance on them. The closer they get to the anus the less greasy stuff until all that’s left is the brown pellets.
After talking to the vet that was here at the time, and doing some research in books at the time, that slime is essentiLly vegatable oil, loaded with amino acids. The partially digested plant material…hmph….wow
Vitamin C in the marrow, vitamin B in the brain,…..
A prey has pretty well everything in it that a predator needs to live a healthy life.
Also, a dogs body takes 11 days(or so)to engineer a battalion of enzymes to properly digest a new food which is why several dog food companies as well as a host of dog nutritionalists say to “chip” dogs on to a new food.
My dogs are very healthy.
My old leader ran in front for 14 years from the time he was 1&1/4 years old. He passed away peacefully at the age of 16 human years just before his 17th birthday. He would have 117&1/2 if he was a human.
I like to think it is in part because I had an open mind about diet for 90% carnivore 10% omnivore.
On the other end of the spectrum, I made a foolish mistake this spring thinking I would save myself some time and money and the fact that I am starting to get a little…. umm… lazy will do. I bought 2 pallets of commercial dog food instead of gassing up the truck and cruising the hiways for fresh accident killed dog food. I am 56 and used dogs since I was 6 and for the first time in my life I have witnessed hot spots/sun spots on a dog.
Back to meat for me. LOL…I am still learning.
I hope this unintentional yarn helps.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Lauren,

I’m of no help either. Sounds like you’re doing a great job and your raw diet is probably ideal. While we’re waiting for him to see your posts, maybe you’ll find something that would be helpful in his comment history: /forums/users/usa-dog-treats/

He has the same user name on the review side, unfortunately I’m unable to share a link there.