[Kritterlady]

That’s true InkedMarie there are so many good ones. When I started my education back in 2005 I was feeding pedigree to my dogs and science diet to my cats. It’s a wonder they survived. I worked at a big Petsmart managing the equine dept. I knew nothing about dog or cat food quality and after I rescued an allergy dog and kept buying more an more expensive food i was at a loss. My vet recommended Blue and it saved my dogs life and my sanity. My point is that there’s a place for these foods in the process. For so many people they just don’t know where to look. My friend manages that store and they use foods like Blue to start the education process with people who come in and say they’ve heard about Blue from commercials or friends and think they need a better food. It’s a great launch point like it was for me. As my GSD got healthier I wanted to know why and began to do reaserch which lead me to rotational and raw. So many of the really great foods aren’t readily available or advertised to the young family getting their first dog or the granny with her itchy Pom. After all beneful has great commercials so if blue is there as a counter point it may get that person wondering which is best. When I worked in the store every day people asked whats the best food and all we can do was tell them what we feed. Thank god for DFA and the other sites that continue to educate those willing to look!

[Deborah M]

Nancy,
K9Natural does not use HPP – which means it stays a true 100% raw. A few folks have suggested adding just a little bit of vegetable to this diet because of the tendency for the stool to be a little dry. I think I mentioned – I add a little pumpkin and that seems to do the trick. The feeding guidelines for mine are as follows: for an 11 lb. dog, they recommend about 1 1/2 scoops of food for the day – I adjust the water how I prefer. I have found that I needed to increase the food a little more and they have maintained a steady weight. So, I give them one scoop in the morning and another at night. That said, I am increasing the amount of food they recommend by about 1/4, so I need to factor that in to what I use for the month. I also give them a nice meaty bone about once a week. So, yes – even for my little ones, it’s expensive. But… since my daughters are taking their sweet time giving me grandchildren, these two get spoiled :):)

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tindaisy:
I love some classic Tom and Jerry! Those must be pretty persuasive cats to turn you into a cat lover and wishing for more strays. I’ll say it again, lucky kitties. You and C4c have something in common, the love of cats by a few strays stopping by your homes.

If you have a Tractor Supply Store local their brand 4Health is a very budget friendly food with decent ingredients; 46 cents/5.5 oz or 99 cents/13.2 oz, co-packed by Simmons. Only one of my cats will eat 4Health, wish they all would, what are you going to do. I have ordered from Chewy.com a few times, excellent prices and service. Many posters on DFA recommend them as well. Here are some other sites to check out; sign up for e-mail/newsletters from these sites so you can receive info on sales and free shipping offers:
http://www.amazon.com/pet-supplies-dog-cat-food-bed-toy/b?ie=UTF8&node=2619533011
http://www.petco.com/
http://www.petflow.com/
http://www.petfooddirect.com/
http://www.petsmart.com/
http://www.wag.com/

I have my Vet to thank for the journey to learn more about pet nutrition. About a year ago she sent out her monthly newsletter discussing common health issues that could have been avoided by proper nutrition and feeding species appropriate foods. She invited anyone who was interested to stop by for a list of pet food she compiled for cats and dogs. I thought to myself what I was feeding had to be fine since they were name brands that are advertised often, but I’ll stop by and see what she has to say. After I read the information she compiled I was off to the races to research more about pet nutrition. I talked further about nutrition with my Vet, read some books, magazine articles, and visited many sites. The criteria I follow regarding pet nutrition constantly changes and grows the more I learn. I like catinfo.org and DFA because of the simplicity they use to present information to their readers.

Catinfo.org is probably the most popular cat site for the regulars on this thread, but there are several others that are very helpful with current information on feline nutrition and care as well. Here’s another site: http://www.littlebigcat.com/
Both of these sites are run by Vets and I am sure others will chime in with their favorite websites as well. Here’s some links to check out regarding cat nutrition:
http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/why-dry-food-is-bad-for-cats-and-dogs/

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

Feeding Your Cat: Know the Basics of Feline Nutrition

On this thread we all share are trials and tribulations about getting our cats to transition to quality foods and other stuff too. Most of mine will eat a premium brand canned food a few times a week and I have a couple that will eat some commercial raw once a week, but most of mine are addicted to kitty crack. Most of my cats are 15+ and I am not going to push a drastic diet change on them at their age. They are now eating mostly canned food with a little GF kibble on the side. I can always hope for more, but I am happy to have transitioned them this far with no issues.

Fish is a concern for all of us farmed or wild caught. Although the quality of fish that is included in pet food might be questionable the same could be said about the quality of meat. So I focus on minimizing exposure to fish and try my best to get quality food in them when they will eat it. My cats’ revolt if they do not get fish a few times a week so I mix in sardines packed in water with their canned food. Sardines typically do not have as much mercury or contaminates that other fish may have. If it were up to me I would not feed fish at all.
From Dr. Pierson:
“I do not feed fish to cats for the following reasons:
• high allergy potential (manifested as skin allergies or inflammatory bowel disease, and possibly asthma)
• toxin/mercury contamination
• PBDEs (fire retardant chemicals) – PBDEs are potent thyroid disruptors
• often high in phosphorus and magnesium
• highly addictive – the cat will not eat anything else”

Thanks for sharing tips on transitioning food. The crazy thing is I thought I would have the most problem with changing their kibble. They always ate canned food with no problem so I thought that would be the easiest. The opposite occurred with mine. I rotate between several kibbles with no transition. It was the Friskies they were addicted to. lol I can’t tell you the money I have spent on quality food only to have them sniff and walk away. I have one cat that pretty much will eat anything and if all else fails Bobby dog is more than willing to clean the cats’ plates. All is good though, they are happy and healthy fur babies.

Akari started this thread and another one about coupons and sales we all share with each other if you are interested. Here’s a link to the coupon thread:
/forums/topic/coupons/page/11/

Stop back and let us know how your guys are doing!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary –

That’s great that you’re feeding a raw diet. 🙂

You may, however, wish to check out a book that includes balanced recipes. Two of my favorites are “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown and “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Karen Becker.

[Kritterlady]

InkedMarie, I understand,and I’m not an advocate for any particular brand. It’s just that gripe sites masquerading as legit consumer advocate sites tick me off. I’m a huge fan of consumer reports and this other site is nothing like it but a lot of people are fooled into thinking otherwise. I have a ton of friends using Blue and love it and I used it without incident going back to 2006. I’m now using a rotational diet as well as raw, and my friends are so happy with Blue that they think I’m crazy. Though its not for everyone just like any other good brand, I just want both sides presented. Most of what’s on forums is negative and I love all the work you all do on this site to keep it balanced.

[Barbara O]

Bobby O

I am aware of the fish problem. The cats don’t get any more fish than the two humans in this house eat…I limit our fish due to mercury and now we have to worry about Japan’s radiation being sent to us via the sea…I agree that most Junk goes into a lot of our cat and dog foods…I know they would pick up spoiled meats from food markets, not unwrap a great deal of the food…just toss it into the pots with the styrofoam and plastic still on it…hopefully this has changed but I doubt it with the cheaper feeds…Purina was guilty of doing this…I took several meats courses in college and I won’t touch weiners….not eating something that mold grows on, then is cleaned off with a chemical and package and sold to the unsuspecting public…if they do this to humans, what do you think they’ve done to the animals?

I am also aware of the law regarding Taurine…there are actually some breeds of dogs that need taurine daily in their diets…You’ll note that Nature’s Variety canned food is the same for dogs and cats…and taurine is in both…

I also know if you withdraw taurine from wolf pups, they can develop cardiomyopathy, juvenile cataracts and reproduction problems…as will foxes….Provide them with the taurine early enough and all of these things can be reversed….

The problem with homemade raw diets is getting enough taurine included…that’s why I’ve always kept taurine capsules on hand…I actually sprinkled it over my foxes’ food several times a week. I know mealworms provide taurine but they still got a shot of the stuff weekly in their food…They were never ill…cats, like foxes have to have it and if a raw diet is used, jut add it.

[Barbara O]

You are so welcome. Please realize that I’m not that smart…it’s called being older and learning from experience and reading…asking questions like you do…and using common horse sense when ruminating over the answers that people give you. I give a great deal of credence to people who have been around the block a few times and who spend time reading between the lines…Remember…anyone can put stuff in print on the internet…I love books that are the printed word. When Toby developed pancreatitis, between my vet and a book I have on hand, we pulled him through. I wouldn’t be without the book…It at least tells me what to do at home while I’m waiting to get an animal to the vet’s office…and some good tips after I go…I learned that we have to keep them hydrated but at the same time keep the pancreas still and not taxing itself….It was Christmas Day when Toby got sick…so we’ve come a long way and we’ve had no more problems…and it was my fault that he got sick. I had fixed a standing rib roast for Christmas and left the pan on top of the cabinet…the grease cooled and rose to the top…I had put water in the pan…I had a sick rescue Dane and hadn’t washed the pan…Toby got on top of the sink….genets can climb anywhere…and swished his tail in the pan, covering his long, long tail in the grease…these animals are fastidious..so he immediately went to cleaning it… When i finally set down after getting Mandy the dog stabilized and medicated…she had a UTI…he jumped into my lap and i felt the wet, greasy feeling tail….he had consumed all that grease…too, too much for a little 3 to 4 lb animal….The next morning he was lethargic…we saw the vet that day and he was started on meds…then we went back and they had to put 50 ccs of fluid under his skin…it took three of us to hold him down in a tube that was meant to do this…it was then i learned how to give him a teaspoon of water every hour on the hour to keep him hydrated, interspersed with a teaspoon of blended food….several times a day….My husband and I had tried to keep him hydrated with 10 ccs subcu but couldn’t hold him down….strong little cuss…first animal I haven’t been able to hold down…As I said, he can be a little Tasmanian devil….I hydrated the Dane with no problem….

Every day I learn something new…that’s why I love sites like this…It helps me tweak what I do for my own animals and it also helps me know what I’m doing right, that has worked for years and years…when something works, your animal is healthy and happy…don’t change what you’re doing…Our animals are individuals…I can’t eat wheat…developed a problem with it…causes horrible arthritis in me…I also know this hasn’t always been the case…same way with chicken…developed something called polymyalgia…docs sent me to rheumatoid clinic at our teaching hospital here…not rheumatoid arthritis so they gave it this fancy name…found out it was being caused by chicken…I was eating it almost every day…I was the one who found the connection…not the docs, just me…case in point….you know your animals better than anyone else…I told one person I won’t feed Purina…had a bad experience with it…not the quality I want for my animals…but that doesn’t mean that others have the same results…From my animal science degree, the various vet courses I’ve taken, and from working with various animals and exotic vets across the US, I have learned a great deal….All I can do is try to put together what I’ve learned to care for what the animals I’ve been blessed to have…I’m seeing too many animals with allergies…something is going on…and I’m seeing these allergies in animals on kibble, raw diets….etc…It’s so hard for me to believe this is a permanent situation….I would start questioning the surrounding environment…not something an individual may be doing but what the animal is coming in contact with that’s not food related…that’s how my allergies started…I cleaned up my environment, cleaned up my diet, starting building my immune system, and now my allergies are almost non-existent. Hopefully, this will happen to the animals out there that are suffering…

[Barbara O]

Bobby dog,

I understand about feeding Purina…better than letting them starve but it’s still junk…My cats will eat any type of canned food…which I know isn’t always the best…Cats are carnivores…more so than even dogs…they need more protein and of course, they have to have taurine or they will die…i.e. the reason I feed dry food…I know with my Fennecs I fed a raw diet…ordered 10,000 mealworms a month…and fed pinkies…bought them frozen…Fed raw veggies and fruits…they would not eat dry food…They lived two to three years longer than most Fennecs in captivity. Was told my two outlived the ones most people knew about..Of course, I studied the animal for 6 months…on a daily basis…talking to breeders and owners all over the world..then I purchased my first one…continued to talk to people in England and Japan about fennecs and foxes.

Regarding cats…I will continue to feed both canned and raw tuna…as well as other fis I purchase…my cats are never overweight, never sick and live a very long time…so I’m doing something right…they are never allowed outside so I have plants inside they can nibble on…All my animals are spayed or neutered. Since my animals are well, have had no health problems, I will continue following the protocol I am using…They do get Primal, canned food, dry food, and raw food when I’m cooking dinner in the evening…They have the run of the house…except for our bedroom…this is because of my asthma…PS I also do not believe in vaccinations every year…this actually weakens their systems…I think whatever the animal is…when you find something that works, and the animal is content…you don’t need to be changing things just because some article or someone says to do so…It’s different if the animal is sickly…then I would be willing to try whatever would work.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Barbara O:
A few of us on this thread have been weening our cats off of kitty crack…this may never happen, but we do our best. I also try not to feed fish to my cats, tuna especially. Moisture is critical for a cat’s UT system. Currently I am now down to feeding each cat approximately two tablespoons of dry GF food a day. Hopefully, I can ween them off of dry food as well. Again, that may never happen.

I would love to feed my cat’s quality food consistently however they are finicky and after many years of cheap canned cat food, they like what they like. Sometimes they get half Wellness (or other quality canned food) and half Purina, sometimes straight Wellness, and sometimes just Purina when they turn everything else down. I would rather feed Purina then have health issues due to a cat not eating food.

I do think Halo’s recipes look great. I have fed it in the past to my dog, but stopped when I contacted them and asked who co-packs their food and they would not disclose that information to me. I believe one of the regulars on this thread feeds it to their cats with great results.

Regardless if a cat is a stray or not dry food is not an ideal diet for a cat and I do not consider canned cat food, meat, or raw food a treat for them; I consider them healthy foods for a cat regardless of the quality. Please check out catinfo.org for information on what is important in a cat’s diet. There is an abundance of information on this site about nutrition and other subjects concerning cat care that I am sure you will find interesting! 🙂

[Bobby dog]

Hi Tracy:
All of the food recommendations you have received are excellent choices, raw and kibble! Hopefully you can find one that works.

I just have one suggestion for you. I understand budget requirements and even though NV raw might not be in your budget right now as a main diet I would like to suggest maybe try feeding it on a rotational basis. I feed my dog kibble with canned, lightly cooked fresh meat, or commercial dehydrated/freeze dried/frozen raw food for each meal. Most of the time the raw he gets is used as a topper in place of canned food rather than an entire meal of raw (budget issues, lol). I try to feed raw weekly; sometimes more often sometimes not. Regardless of how often I feed raw, he does love it and I believe the variety is good for him.

Check out NV’s website. If you sign up for news letters they send out monthly coupons for their products. Most of the time it’s for their frozen raw. I buy small bags and feed it to both my dog and cats. Check out Darwins too as InkedMarie suggested. I have not fed that brand, but it is recommended by many posters on DFA.

[Barbara O]

Yes…you can feed Primal with just about anything…And…I think the large animal feed is mostly the size of the biscuit…look at the back of the package and compare the medium/large size analysis…I think they’re the same…I know for little dogs, the bites are much smaller…like a cat’s size. My friend mixes her Duck Primal with her kibble…her dog is on medication which is costly…prone to seizures, etc…and this food has given her a 2nd life…much more energy, walks twice a day…and is ready to go, even our AZ heat….

Oh…I also feed Nature’s Instinct raw food, as well. The reason I stick with the Primal for Toby is due to the veggies in it…he won’t eat fruit or veggies…so I sneak them into his diet this way…You can find Natural Instinct frozen, when you cannot find the Primal.. I bought it in my home town in Texas, but they didn’t have Primal…and it’s very good…so don’t be afraid to feed it…you can probably feed a little frozen mixed veggies…you dog will pass the corn whole but the other veggies will be mostly digested…you can feed a little apple, also. My vet has had me add cottage cheese…don’t go overboard and plain Greek Yogurt……as well as Kefir…plain…this will help with digestion,.

[Barbara O]

If you’ll read, I believe they have a digestive enzyme…I feed twice a day also…but I either add in the AM or the PM….He gets his salmon oil in the mornings…I usually give him his glucosamine in the evening…I was giving him Costco pills but he would spit them out so I ordered the dog liquid from Vita Cost…then I discovered I could put the two pills in a jigger of water and they would be completely dissolved by the time I fed…

I rotate my brands….but I always feed grain free to all my animals…including my cats…I have a Maine coon cat and a Savannah…which is a cross between an African cat and a domestic cat…They also get canned food and some Primal..I don’t feed Primal to Roger all the time…because he gets raw bones…If he didn’t get these, he would get some Primal every day…remember, his cousin, the wolf, eats raw meat every day…I’m at work right now but I’ll look at the digestive enzyme I have at home…Toby, my genet, had a case of pancreatitis at Christmas, and I started him on the enzymes after he recovered…I’ll get the name…

I feed the canned Costco no grain dog food mixed in with the kibble, also. It gets a 5…Natural Instinct is wonderful…I fed the grain free by Merrick…can’t think of the name, and he really liked it. I’m feeding a grain free now and I won’t buy it again, but I bought it in a pinch…maybe called Natural Balance…really having to boost it with meat. Tomorrow I will pick up a bag of Costco Grain free salmon….To this I add an egg at each feeding…the perfect protein for both man and beast….I haven’t fed this…my vet said to be careful feeding chicken…you will need to add fat to it…So if I buy Costco, I’ll just buy the salmon or beef grain free and add more protein…since it is a plant based feed…The vet said it is a good feed, though…better than most and very budget friendly…of course, I spend the difference on the things I add…I like Taste of the Wild….it is a 4 and is plant based, though many of the vets here love it…and Danes need to keep watch on the protein due to their size and joints…they grow awfully fast, and Roger is about a year old. He has never had a problem with me just switching brands..no stomach upsets, etc…Just use common sense and ask yourself, would I want someone to switch my diet around all the time? I’ve been taking in orphan animals, raising wildlife, doing wildlife rehab work since I was about 16 or 17, and that’s a long, long time. If I ever learn how to post pictures on this site, will send some before and after pics of the Danes I’ve rescued…and will send a pic of the fennecs and our little Tasmanian monster, Toby the genet.

[Dori]

Wow Barbara O. Very impressive background you have. Love all the different animals you have been able to help also. My question is what digestive enzyme do you add to Primal Raw (I also feed Primal Raw to my three dogs)? How often do you add it to their meals? I feed them twice a day. Do you feed any other commercial raw diets to your dogs and do you rotate your proteins as well as brands? Thanks.

[Barbara O]

I got several posts on the subject of Primal..I feed the Primal frozen…It is raw meat and veggies…with supplements added. It is manufactured in a facility that passes inspection for human food manufacture…The product is wonderful. I have a small spotted genet that eats it daily. I have mixed it in cat kibble and dog kibble…My friend has a dog that is very picky and it is a big dog…she mixes the duck with the kibble and the dog eats it like candy… I travel with it frozen. If you order it frozen…order as much as you can afford…that way the shipping will be cheaper. Check your local feed stores…those that carry dog and cat food…Also…check with any of your pet shops. I’ve found it in odd places when we travel. When they ship it, it is packed in dry ice…I order organic, grass fed beef for my husband and me and it is shipped from the midwest to hot Arizona in July…always comes completely frozen…ready for my freezer. By adding the Primal to the diet, you are assured of getting everything your animal needs…and you can add your own fruits and veggies to the food…I am assured the kibble, even if it is plant based, meets my Dane’s and genet’s needs…and they both are shiny and healthy. Have been raising and caring for animals longer than many of you have been alive…have a heavy background in animal nutrition in my undergraduate degree plus a few vet courses under my belt as well as human food chemistry courses…have tried to stay up with the research…Don’t believe everything your vet tells you…any vet that tells me how good Science Diet is, I run away from….Am fortunate I have a vet that has taken care of all my exotics and will call over the US getting answers to questions we might both have…have raised raccoon, ring tails, Fennec foxes…had some of the oldest in captivity…due to diligence in diet….both were spoiled pets….a animal fed a well balanced diet with added good oils and digestive enzymes, etc., is one who’s immune system is going to keep them healthy….Remember…corn, wheat and soy are not good for dogs…and raw bones to gnaw on are a blessing…cleans teeth and gives them B vitamins they need….They don’t have people stomachs…they have a straight tube so don’t give them too much variety at a time….They are a carnivore….not a cow…they have teeth for tearing…not for grinding…And….when the diet is high in protein and low in carbohydrate, the back yard is much easier to clean…

[Dori]

LOL Cyndi. You probably scared the crap out of Bailey and yourself. It took me awhile with Katie to realize that once in a while all dogs will scratch a regular old itch. I took would yell “Stop It” whenever I would see her scratch and would start checking her skin for any redness. I swear she used to look at me like I’d gone out of my friggin mind. So happy to hear that it WAS the detergent. Dumb vet would have continued to badger you about raw feeding. Glad to hear you got the help you needed here to prove the vet wrong before you did something drastic like go back to kibble. Vets can be awfully stubborn. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, my vets all know I feed raw and have been doing so for a couple of years of more so they can’t play the game of blaming anything on their diets. I feel bad for anyone who is knew to raw and their vets blame the raw food and so they go back to kibble when all along the poor dog’s issue had nothing to do with its diet. I wish vets to get with the raw program already and get over themselves. I mean what? So they took nutrition class for all of about two minutes? For that they expect us to go along with whatever they say just cause they’ve got Dr. in from of their name. Uh Oh! I fear I may be starting to go on a rant here so I’ll stop and just say Yey for Cyndi and Bailey. :>)

[Dori]

Cyndi, it sounds to me like it would have been the soap. I have terrible allergies myself and can’t use any detergent that has dyes, fragrance etc. Even my friends and family know that when I’m coming to visit they keep All or Tide Free on hand and wash towels and sheets for me for my stay. I think your vet, being put off on a raw diet, is just being a nay sayer. Obviously she herself does not suffer from allergies or she would know that it probably was the detergent. Gain is really fragrance driven and was probably (hopefully–fingers, eyes, and toes crossed) the culprit. It’ll take a little bit but I bet her hair does start to grow back pretty soon. :>)

Oh! Knock on wood too!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Cyndi]

Another Update: The vet just called and all of Bailey’s bloodwork for her thyroid came back normal. I told her I think I had the problem figured out and told her about the laundry soap, she says “I doubt that’s it, I still think it’s something diet related”. Damn her anyway! Why can’t vets get on board with raw diets!?! My dog is obviously healthy other than the current problem! I pray to god her hair starts growing back now and all this problem was because of the laundry soap. I need to find a good vet!!

[Lisa C]

Hi sue…
I have put off commenting because I feel so defeated. Chewy still vomited on the NV raw, but I may have not given enough to him to test if it really worked. He only had a small bags worth. I don’t know how long he has to be on something to see if it really works. Lately he has been on a canned Nutro “limited ingredient” for a week and still vomits on it, but it’s to tide him over until we can get him into a 2nd vet (money is limited right now unfortunately) but we are planning to go within the next 1-2 weeks. All his poos have been normal, luckily. We tried Honest Kitchen Veal, the really expensive $60 box and he wouldn’t even go near it. Our original vet wants him back on RX, but I don’t see the point if it never helped. These are some results from his last bloodwork:

“the lipase, one of the two pancreatic enzymes, is slightly elevated so recommend feeding the prescription intestinal diet as already planned to help control any pancreatic inflammation that may occur with feeding other fat sources”

[Sharon Buchanan]

Desiree,

The values for BUN are different in raw fed dogs. While your dog’s BUN does seem high, his Creatinine is low normal. Most conventional vets aren’t aware of the different values – I had to share the correct values with two of the vets at the clinic I go to. Here is a great article that explains three values that will be different:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/normal-blood-values-and-raw-fed-dogs/ At their site, they also have a series of free raw feeding videos that should help you keep him on track and you can search their articles for natural ways to address his BUN value.

Since he doesn’t have teeth, you can help supplement his calcium with whole raw eggs. Just crush the shell with the back of a spoon so that the shell is essentially little flat pieces, not totally pulverized. I would also try chicken backs and ribs. I would begin with cutting away the spine and just give him the soft smaller bones. Once his gums have toughened up a bit he might be able to gnaw the spine and neck in order to get his 10% bone.

A proper raw diet consists of 80% protein (heart is considered a protein, not an organ), 10% bone, 5% liver and 5% other organs – pancreas, spleen, testicles, kidneys… Except that you might be trying to feed a raw diet based on AAFCO guidelines for commercial food, I don’t know why you’re adding greens and veggies at this point. Are there other issues besides the elevated BUN? Have you been feeding greens and veggies for the entire six months? I would definitely add a digestive enzyme supplement to his diet, probiotics won’t hurt as well. Mercola makes supplements that I and many others have had good success with.

Dogs Naturally Magazine will be hosting their second weekend-long internet conference in the Fall. They have a Facebook page that, if you “Like”, will keep you up-to-date and let you know when you can sign up. I attended the first one at the end of January and will be signing up for this one as well. Additionally, you’ll then have access to a private group of like-minded owners, nutritionists and homeopaths who all respond to concerns just like yours with personal experience as well as professional opinion.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Erin –

You aren’t going to see any dental benefit from feeding ground raw. If you’re interested in feeding raw meaty bones, the mechanical chewing action will aid in keeping the teeth cleaner to a certain degree. However, the only way to ensure optimal dental health is to actually brush your dogs teeth – this should be done at least three times a week.

Price will vary greatly and will depend on which protein source you feed, which cut you feed, quality (grass fed vs. conventional), purchase quantity and your location. I purchase items in bulk from a distributor that supplies grocery stores and restaurants and get things like chicken backs (~$0.30/lb.), turkey necks (~$0.60/lb), chicken hearts & gizzards ($0.80/lb), turkey hearts & gizzards ($0.90/lb.), pork hearts ($0.90/lb), beef hearts ($1.30/lb), etc. etc. All my items come in 15 to 50 lb. cases and I have to order a minimum of 300 lbs. at a time. Purchasing meat at the grocery store would be much more expensive.

If you wanted to work in a little raw for the dental benefits you would be safe feeding a a raw meaty bone a few times a week in addition to the kibble without throwing anything off balance (you’d just want to make sure to feed a little less kibble on those days to account for the calories in the raw meaty bone). Larger dogs do well with chicken leg quarters, chicken backs, turkey necks and pork necks. Smaller dogs do well with chicken wings and necks.

If you want to start feeding 50% raw you’ll need to be sure it’s balanced. I’d suggest checking out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it includes easy to prepare balanced recipes. You could also use a pre-mix – my favorite is See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix (formulated by the author of the aforementioned book). I like it because it’s reasonably priced and doesn’t add in large amounts of fruits/veggies/etc. like some other mixes do so I have the freedom to customize it more to my preferences.

You may also find some useful information on the raw diet threads: /forums/forum/raw-dog-food-forum/

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Katy L]

This is my first post on this forum – I do a lot of lurking. Sophia is an Airedale mix rescue (10 yrs old this month). You really struck a chord when you mentioned the Gain with Lavender. Sophia broke out in what looked like hives – but she had been having other skin issues and eventually was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism. Well, in the mean while, my husband broke out in rashes that looked almost like psoriasis (a few months after). I thought my husband was breaking out because of the stress from Sophia as we weren’t sleeping at night and were trying to keep her from chewing herself to bits when we were awake. It was stressful. A friend had given me a bottle of All Free laundry detergent that she didn’t care for and I used it . Sophia and my husband BOTH cleared up! However, I still hadn’t put all the facts together because We had started Sophia on medication, raw diet, bathing twice a week, etc. Husband’s rash was cleared up with topical cream. About a month ago, I wanted to use up the rest of the Gain and guess what? Sophia is broken out in hives and losing her hair. I cannot believe I didn’t figure this out until now! I feel like an idiot! Let me go throw out the remainder of the Gain and head to the store for some All Free and White vinegar (rinse).
This is a very abbreviated version of events but would be really interested to see how Bailey does when you re-wash the laundry. It sounds like Bailey is in great hands 🙂

[Dori]

I feed my three toy dogs commercial raw diets. Very high protein, moderate fat and low carbs. My dogs weight 7 lbs., 6 lbs., and 5 lbs. If anything, I have problems keeping weight on them. They range in age from 5 years old to 15 years old. So to the question of what is the right amount of fat or protein, I don’t believe it’s a question that anyone other than the dog guardian can answer. Every dog is different. Every dog assimilates ingredients and levels differently. Protein in foods I feed my three little girls can range up to 54%, fat can at times hover around 36 – 38 %. I believe someone mentioned that it’s the quality of fats in a diet, not the actual percentage in the food. Same holds true for protein. Low carbs as I feed grain, potato, soy, etc. free. The only treats they get are organic small pieces of fruits or veggies.

No, I think whoever told you that a dog needs 1 gram of protein for every lb they weigh is incorrect. We would have an awful lot of emaciated dogs running around. Maybe someone with a better grasp on how many grams of protein to feed per pound will add some info.

I feed each of my dogs between 2 to 2.5% of their body weight per day. I use a kitchen scale and I feed them twice a day.

Hope something I’ve added helps.

[pugmomsandy]

There are raw foods with added minerals like Stella & chewy’s and Primal to name a few. Nature’s Variety’s chicken recipe has actually passed feeding trials so I would assume their other recipes are formulated similarly (but it’s just an assumption). Answers (Detailed) has a pork recipe. And fortunately, there are more protein choices as well for raw foods like rabbit, bison and goat. You should be able to find lamb and pork relatively easy. The book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” also includes a recipe for a vitamin/mineral mix to make complete diets. Check out Hare-Today Gone Tomorrow and My Pet Carnivore for meat, organs, grinds and whole prey. A non-fish oil option for omega-3 is algae oil and calamari oil if he has a sensitivity to fish oil as well. There are some dehydrated or freeze-dried options as well like Grandma Lucy’s (not raw) and ZiwiPeak (air-dried).

[emma s]

Hi,

I am looking to switch my 3 year old border terrier to a raw diet
However I am concerned that I will not be able to ensure that he gets all the nutrients and minerals needed. He has been tested for food allergies and has had positive reactions for:

Chicken
Beef
Salmon
Venison
Soy
Cows Milk

With the lack of variety – will I be able to ensure that he has a healthy diet? Should I supplement his diet with other minerals that he will not get from certain meat proteins for example?

Thanks very much for your time

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Dropping in with an update on the cat.

I weighed him today, and he’s up to 12.4 pounds. I’m unsure how much he should weigh, and its hard to judge from all his fluff, but I think this is a pretty good weight for him. I do think he could stand to be a bit thinner, but he’s constantly hungry, and if the cat ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy. I feed him at 11 in the morning and 11 at night. I haven’t been giving out much in the way of treats recently, raw or commercial, either. I do want to get some more beef heart for him because he really loved it and I do worry about his teeth. I’ll have to figure out a way to tweak him diets some to get him to drop some weight. I do want to see how he holds this weight though. So the tweaking won’t happen just yet. If he stays steady at this weight, I think I’ll just leave it how it is.

Otherwise, his fur is like silk, and he’s active and lovey (to me, anyways LOL) and does all his normal naughty cat things.

Right now, his daily food line up looks like this:

1) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
2) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
3) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
4) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
5) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
6) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)
7) Science Diet Kitten (3x 3 oz cans)
8) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
9) Wellness Complete Health (2x 5.5 oz cans)
10) Ideal Balance (3x 3 oz cans)
11) Sheba (3x 3 ox cans)
12) Wellness Grain Free Tuna (2x 5.5 oz cans)

And then other set just like that. The Sheba and Wellness Complete Health are Turkey, Chicken, and Beef flavors. The Ideal Balance is the venison grain inclusive (he really like this, and its not too bad, just higher carb than I like). The Science Diet Kitten is Liver and Chicken. I’ve got 6 cans of Sheba, 6 cans of Ideal Balance, and 2 cans of Science Diet left over that didn’t fit into the rotation evenly that I can use later. I also got my coupons for Wellness in my email that I’ll be using as soon as I have time to plan that out and find a good deal. He’s not got enough Wellness in his diet right now for my liking, but what I’ve got now will work for now while we go on vacation, and he’s got enough food for the time being.

Oh, and I finally got my $4 off $20 coupon printed out, and Authority isn’t on sale any more 🙁 Wasn’t meant to be, I guess. Oh well. Hopefully next time it goes on sale I can get it.

[Deborah M]

K9 Natural saved me!
I tried everything to get my two Shih Tzus to eat. They would eat to live and that was about it. My local pet store recommended the K9 Natural Venison and Green Tripe. Wow. What a difference. They love it and eat on cue, every morning, and every night. I’ve read blog after blog, review after review, and it seems that almost everyone shares my opinion of this food. You can actually pronounce each ingredient, and they are all quality ingredients. Lastly, I’ve contacted the K9 manufacturer a couple of times with questions since I’m a raw diet newbie. They got back to me with a personal email right away, both times, and answered my question in detail to my satisfaction. Not only it this a great product, but it comes from a great company.

[Dori]

My major concern with your post is that you are saying that Bella has not eaten in four days. Regardless of whether this food is on EC’s choice or not, you have much more to be concerned about.

Please find a food that Bella will eat asap. As far as Lucy is concerned, I too have a dog with Cancer. She is a 15 year old Maltese with bladder and lung cancer. To date she remains asymptomatic. I have done extensive research since her diagnosis three months ago and all roads lead to raw food diet for canine’s with cancer. Fortunately my three dogs have been on raw dog food diet for at least a couple of years now. Obviously because of Hannah’s age and also because she is asymptomatic which have chosen not to go the chemo and radiation route. I have put her on K9 Immunity Plus which has been recommended by many on the various canine cancer sites. I have also added Denamarin to her diet which is a combination of milk thistle and Sam-e. Also I give her turmeric & curcumin daily (helps with inflammation). So far she continues to do well. Eating, drinking, playing, barking at anything that passes by (be it a car, person, or animal). We give her tons and tons of love, massages, and hugs.

Good Luck, I hope all goes well and that you can find a food that your dogs will eat.

Forgot to mention that because I feed my dogs raw, they eat no grains whatsoever. No corn, potatoes, rice, soy. I feed a high protein, moderate fat, low carb diet to all my girls. I also feed them organic fruits and veggies as treats. I don’t feed any commercial treats.

I not feed BB or Purina under any circumstances. If you are going to continue to feed a dry food though, you should add water to it. Of course, I would urge commercial raw foods, especially for Lucy, Bella can also certainly benefit from a commercial raw diet. But if not raw, then I would urge you to find a freeze dried or dehydrated dog food.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Dori]

If you live near a Pet Smart, they carry Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw. It is a very good commercial raw diet that takes all the guess work out of your preparing raw yourself and wondering how to balance it all out. I feed commercial raw foods and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is one of the foods in my rotation. Others I use are Primal Raw, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Darwin’s (fabulous food and one of the raw foods with the lowest amount of fat that I have found), Vital Essential’s Raw, Answers Detailed Raw. There are quite a few others, just wanted to give you some ideas. Some are more difficult to find, but as I said Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is sold at Petco and Petsmart and a lot of small pet food stores also.

I have read on occasion on this site that some dogs that are prone to seizures are having difficulty with rosemary. So as HDM stated, I too would avoid it. Why take chances.

Also, please go with a grain free food. Dogs have no need for grains, potatoes, rice, corn, soy and, in fact, these ingredients cause many different issues in dogs. Switching to raw made a world of difference with my three dogs.

As HDM stated, traditional vets are not nutritionists. Pay no attention to their advice on feeding unless you are going to a holistic, homeopathic vet. They are very hard to find. And certainly do not feed your dog any of the foods that the traditional vet sells. Very little actual quality (if any at all) real food in what they sell. Pedigree, Purina, Iams are also terrible foods. Lots of fillers and very little quality proteins.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by Dori.

[Kat W]

My 5 year old weim Nina just had it done yesterday, vet told me to feed Chappie food, I disagree with ready made dog food, due to the fact of my GSP was on home cooked food sometimes raw and she was in good health for 17 years (!) I am analysing what could cause it and one thing is – dehydration, hot weather, and eating rubbish outside…. Wonder is the foam on dogs mouth while exercising could be and indicator for amount of swollen foam and that will create air lock. :/
Vet told be to rise her bowl for 6 ” …. But opinion says if the dog is healthy don’t rise it- I do have her sister as well…. Feed and look after on the same way…. “Touch wood ” no concerns with her…. And water control amount intake …. It will be a day when they have to stay at home alone and what? I am freaking out at the minute, just joined this forum …. Love the great answers and ideas …. Which I do agree with as they are logic. Ninas vet said that raw diet can lack in fibre, but that can be replaced with blended vegetables …. I believe… Plz let me know what do u think about all of that …. Thank u.

[losul]

Hi again Cyndi.

It’s to be expected, that the first thing a vet against raw home feeding is going to automatically suspect a deficiency, nutritional excess or something. It’s only going to take what 2 or 3 days to get any blood work results. So I agree with U.S.A. and all the others, and as I said previously, I wouldn’t make any immediate major dietary changes or assume much, at least until then. And even then if nothing comes up in the bloodwork, your vet will still be biased against your home prepping. It won’t hurt, at least not anything but your pocketbook, to use some commercial prepared raw, in place of some of your home prepped., if that makes everyone feel better. But to just switch immediatelyto a lot of kibble, uh no.

Thanks U.S.A for writing to Steve Brown. I know that heart muscle is not so much considered an organ for the purposes of feeding, and I use alot of beef hearts, many times a majority component of my homemade, but not so sure that Steve’s intent is nutrient rich organs like kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, etc would fall into that same category of ” 20% is O.K.” with his pre-mix such as heart muscle would.

Regardless of any of that, i don’t hink it likely that what you have been feeding is causing any kind of major problems, The main thing is that you aren’t feeding bone-in grinds with the pre-mix, I think.

I just wrote Steve asking him to clarify a few more things, actually wrote twice, because I forgot something the first message. I keep a bag of his mix here on the rare occaison that I use if I get lazy, forgetful, etc, for whatever reason don’t want to do the full home prep. I’ve always assumed it was designed to be balanced with muscle meat alone, the instructions don’t say otherwise. I’ve never used liver/other organs with with it. Should it not be believed then that it’s balanced then with using muscle meat alone? It shouldn’t be so ambiguous, IMO.

I know that Know better pet foods has 2 pre-mixes for raw feeding, Better in the raw. One formula MUST have liver added by the user, the other NO liver should be added.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 4 months ago by losul.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Cyndi,

I agree with James. I wouldn’t make any big changes in Bailey’s diet just yet. I’d take a look at those areas that could use some tweaking and make those small changes now. But, I honestly think I would wait to make any big changes until after you get her test results back. It’s never too soon to start researching though.

Now, that said, it sounds like changing Bailey’s diet is something you’ve had a bit of a nagging concern about for at least a little while and I truly believe you have to do what your gut instinct tells you to do. If that means commercial raw or even kibble with toppers, kibble with an ABC day, etc., I support your decision. At the end of the day, you have to have peace and following your conscious is what will get you there.

You have, and will continue to, do right by Bailey.

[Dori]

Hi Cyndi. I’ve been reading this forum and wondering what, if anything, I can add. One…..Wait until blood test results come back. I hope that you had your vet do a complete CBC and also thyroid work up. Thyroid lab results always take a few more days to come back then the rest of tests. Hannah has been hypothyroid for years (loss of hair, etc. etc.). Another thing is that if you can afford it please don’t go with Bravo (recalls and other issues that I have heard about from friends that used to feed Bravo). Primal is an excellent choice. Obviously so is Darwins (in the long run, cheaper that most commercial raw diets). Also Answers Detailed, Stella & Chewy’s Raw, Natures Variety Instinct Raw. Obviously there are many other fine quality commercial complete and balanced raw diets. Please wait, breathe, and wait for test results. Then……weigh your options. The last option you should go with, imho, is kibble, especially with a dog that has been eating raw. Wait and see what’s going on with Bailey before jumping ship. Keep us posted.

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone! Just back from the vet. She did do bloodwork and is sending it off to check her thyroid. Won’t know the results of that for a few days, BUT, as I expected, she thinks Bailey has a nutritional deficiency because of her raw diet. She encouraged me to atleast, if I wanted to keep her on raw, go with a premade raw like Bravo or Primal or something like that, so it’s already balanced.

I was going back and forth in my head the past few months and thinking I might switch her to a good 5 star kibble in the am and either raw of Freshpet or something for dinner. For the year and a half she’s been on raw, I have been wondering if I’m meeting all her nutritional needs. I know she eats better than most dogs, but I don’t want to risk her health in doing so.

So, until I find out different from the blood test, I’m going to assume it’s nutritional related and started shopping around for the best kibble and just do healthy toppers as well. Thanks for everyone’s help! I really appreciate it!

[DogFoodie]

Ensuring that you’re feeding a balanced homemade raw diet is critical. The commercial frozen that you’re feeding is balanced already.

Here are a couple of links that I’d suggest you take a look at to help you decide whether or not you want to pursue homemade raw:

http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html

/forums/topic/menus/

You could always consider some of the pre-mixes such as See Spot Live Longer or one of The Honest Kitchen’s base mixes. With a pre-mix as a base, you simply add your own fresh meat and in some cases, oil also.

Here’s some more conversation about using pre-mixes: /forums/topic/vitaminmineral-pre-mixes/

[ella]

I’ve had Ella on a raw diet, using Primal raw patties. The cost is pretty high, about $6/pound, so I supplement with raw meats (chicken pieces with bones, beef, pork, etc.) as well as cooked veggies, like squash, green beans etc.

It occurs to me that I should be able to skip the expensive raw patties and go entirely with human grade meat. Chicken legs are 77cents per pound, I can get scraps of high quality pork chops, both boneless and with bone in, for $1.47 per pound, beef livers are $2 per pound, beef ribs $2.47. So I can give her excellent meat, rather than the ground up, frozen patties.

I live on meat and veggies. IS there any reason a mutt can’t? We’re spending more on the dog to eat than we are on ourselves.

[losul]

Hi Cyndi.

Read your post and sorry to hear about Bailey’s problems. This might be far-fetched, but I’m going to put it out there anyway.

After reading what you are feeding and reading others initial thoughts about thyroidism brought something to my mind. Hypothyroidism, is more often the case and Hyperthyroidism (high thyroid) is pretty rare in dogs. I’m not knowledgeable about thyroid problems, but after some research, I found indications that hyperthyroidism can cause hair loss just as can hypothyroidism.

Awhile back, Aimee (thnx Aimee) brought up a study in which certain dogs that were fed raw diets developed hyperthyroidism-high thyroxine levels (dietary hyperthyroidism). It turns out that these dogs were either eating tracheas and gullets or eating other meats that had the thyroid glands inadvertently ground up with them. Anyway that study much impacted me, and it would never have occurred to me if Aimee had not brought it up. At the time I was feeding MPC’s beef tripe supermix sometimes (it kind of sounds like you are using it, and as a staple?). Anyway, MPC’s ground beef tripe supermix has 10% trachea and gullet in it. I was concerned enough that I inquired to Paul about it a couple of times, wanting to make sure they were careful not to include the thyroid gland in the supermix. I wasn’t reassured that it didn’t have thyroid gland in it, so I quit feeding it. I still buy some things from MPC, but nothing with trachea or gullet, and not chicken products for other reasons. Just got a new order Friday, it even included goat gonads ( ouchee).

At first this study might sound like another raw feeding bash, but I see no real apparent conflicts of interest in it., it has happened with humans also, “Thyrotoxicosis factitia, as this is called in human medicine, has been reported in people eating hamburgers containing ground beef thyroid or eating excessive amount of sausages containing thyroid hormones (Malvinder and Sturge 2003, Conrey and other 2008, Hendriks and Looij 2010).”

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2011.01189.x/full

As I said, it might be far fetched, as it seems like other symptoms might be present if it were hyperthyroidism, maybe even weight loss and hyperactivity. But if you were to get her checked, and it would turn out to be HIGH thyroxine levels….. Also know that if it were dietary hyperthyroidism, it is easily reversable.

Cyndi, there is another possible problem I can see. Are you using the pre-mixes such as SSLL with a complete grind- meat, bones, organs and tripe? Those pre-mixes are really designed to use with muscle meats only- no bones or organs. Alot of folks would say that the MPC beef tripe supermix (if that’s what you are using) is (or should be if in right proportions) completely balanced by itself. I would say it should be very close to balanced, and shouldn’t ever have the full supplementation that you are adding with the pre-mixes, IMO. The pre-mixes add all the vitamins/minerals needed in absence of bone and organs. For just one thing an overabundance of calcium/phosphorus, if you are using bone in grinds with the pre-mixes. You aren’t using cod liver oil also, I hope? I think excessive calcium, especially along with excessive vitamin D, can be a cause of hypercalcemia. Parathyroid and thyroid glands attempt to regulate blood calcium/phosphorus.

Whatever it may be, I hope Bailey gets better very soon!

[USA]

The dog you see in my avatar had localized demodectic mange when we first adopted him. He was 4 and a half months old. He had a ring of no hair around both eyes and he was itchy. This is pretty common in puppies as they transition from their mothers immunity and develop their own immune system. I transitioned him from the kibble he came with to the home prepared diet all of my dogs get. His immune system developed and held the mites in check without any drugs or medications.

All dogs have mites it’s just that a healthy immune system usually keeps them in check and no symptoms appear. It is possible that your dog will need some help in restoring balance but my first choice would be a home prepared diet of 75% meat (including about 10% organs) and 25% non-starchy vegetables and a little fruit. A good starting book to read on preparing a home made diet would be Steve Browns See Spot Live Longer. All recipes that do NOT contain bone can be lightly cooked or served raw. I would start with lightly cooked while his immune system develops and then if you like you can ease him onto a completely raw diet or continue with a lightly cooked one.

Good Luck with your new addition!!!

[Barbara O]

It seems this year is really a problem. More and more dogs are having, itching, loss of hair, even dry hair. In our part of the southwest, we have dry weather whereas in Texas, my grandson has hot, humid weather…seems the summer is the problem…So…is your raw diet one that you haven’t mixed yourself or is it from something like Raw Instinct or Primal? There is a difference…. Sometimes just waiting and using the least amoount of balanced food can make a difference. I’ll go back and try to find the complete raw diet you’re using…

[Barbara O]

JENNIFER….Who did the testing? What was the testing called? I’m skeptical….you might try to put the dog on a raw diet temporarily…Natural Instinct has a frozen raw food that is balanced…also Primal is wonderful…It is frozen, raw, balanced food. You can look at the different raw meats….Some foods are very hot while others are very cool. My friend has a dog who has all sorts of problems…It has a disease that means the dog can only eat certain foods. She went to the Primal Duck and the dog is doing better than it ever has…She uses an expensive kibble that is human grade and then she uses the Primal…it seems to do the trick…It’s hard to eat a raw diet and have it balanced so if you can, try feeding the raw balanced diet…It might do the trick.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Barbara O. In my second post, I wrote what I feed her. She is on a raw diet and she gets a few raw eggs per week, as well as tinned sardines a few times a week. I also give her coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil when she get the Dr. Harvey’s Veg 2 bowl occasionally.

[Barbara O]

How much quality oil is the dog getting? Most dog foods have to limit the amount of fat they put in dog foods due to danger of rancidity. My grandson’s lab began doing the same thing. They took her to the vet and she was treated for allergies. I sent them some salmon oil and recommended they add a whole raw egg to the diet. She has cleared except for one small spot. I volunteer for Great Dane rescue and we have been having the same problems with the Danes…dandruff and itching. I began feeding the one I have just adopted the salmon oil and a raw egg at both feedings. He is slicking off, the itching has all but subsided and his coat is becoming shiny. He has been on the egg for over a month and the salmon oil was started last week. Please don’t be afraid to feed the eggs. Several years ago I had several orphaned puppies that were brought to me. I lived close to a vet school and was taken courses there…I talked to one of my professors and he recommended I mix a concoction to feed the puppies…this was whole egg, canned evaporated milk and raw hamburger meat. I also added baby vitamin drops. The pups grew, were shiny and had no health problems…
Sometimes keeping the diet simple is the best. Our dogs are canines…carnivores…they aren’t meant to eat a diet of grains and too much vegetables…
I own a genet and he eats Primal frozen raw…It has some ground veggies in it…I’ve been doing rescue of one sort or another for years…dogs, cats, wild animals…almost all have been carnivores….A very old vet told me one time to feed an animal as close to his native diet as possible…this eliminates many digestive problems. So…I feed grain free food…I have to keep the feeding pans around that slow down the eating process for many of the Danes I get…they have been half starved and abused…they eat so fast food can come back up…Amazon has some wonderful stainless steel ones.

Always feed the dry food wet…not mushy….just wet. Have you ever tried to gobble down a sandwich too fast? It sticks in the throat…This happens to dogs…puppies and grown dogs need moist food…In the wild they would never eat totally dry feed…You can add a small amount of raw veggies to the dry food. My doesn’t like the veggies but the other Danes I’ve rescued love them…One ate broccoli and cauliflower as a treat…Also..someone mentioned gas….eating and gulp air causes gas…

[Cyndi]

Hi guys, I need some help. I believe Bailey has all of a sudden developed an intolerance to something she’s eating because she has been itching and shedding BAD for the past few months and now I’m noticing bald patches on her sides. 🙁 An intolerance to some food is the only cause I can think of as to why, so I think I should start an elimination diet but I don’t know how. She eats all different kinds of things, how would I go about this? She’s been on raw for about a year and a half now and the only thing new that I’ve given her recently has been goat. I don’t think it’s that though, because I think her shedding and itching started before I started giving her the goat.

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Darren S]

I have a Bullmastiff puppy on the way. Im looking for recommendations on puppy food? Don’t want to do a raw diet. Thank you.

[Debra J H]

If you really want top notch, Darwin’s raw food has some specialty diets now and has one for kidney issues. I do know this is a very serious condition. I too have Cavaliers and know of three Cavaliers who got protein losing enteropathy after eating tainted kibble. One was getting the Iams recalled and two others got it after being put on Science Diet ID.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Debra J H.

[Corinne M]

Hi Liz,
I just read your post – I’m so sorry, I know it is anxiety producing to find a lump on your dog!! Here’s what I know, hopefully it will make you feel better until you can get to the vet…I’ve had Golden Retrievers in the past who developed fatty tumors (lipomas) as they got older. That was back in the days before I was feeding homemade & raw. The vet would always say that its nothing to worry about, it was common for the breed and as long as it didn’t bother the dog leave it alone. Back then, that’s what I did – and I can honestly say that those dogs lived long happy lives & for the most part I don’t think the lipomas ever really bothered them and certainly didn’t interfere with their quality of life. Then about 4 years ago, I had 2 Golden Retriever puppies – and 1 of them developed a lump that was BIG. And he was young. My initial thought was, “well, he’s a Golden & they are prone to these things”. But it just felt really wrong to me in such a young dog – and sure enough, when the vet did a needle biopsy on him, the result was different, this time it was not fatty, but was blood filled – called a sarcoma. Turns out this dog had a really weak immune system, and the lump was right at the injection site where he had his latest vaccines. The good news is, we caught it early and it alerted me to a bigger issue – his immune system. That’s when I changed diet, vaccines, etc. When you go to the vet, you’ll know more – it may be just another fatty bump, but the location seems to indicate that maybe its related to the vaccine or the chip implant. His body may be responding to the foreign “stuff” that was injected, and the bump may resolve as his body recovers and assimilates it. But if it’s a reaction, that’s something to pay attention to – most dogs don’t get a reaction, so you may want to look into why yours did this time. Maybe it’s a fluke, or maybe there are ingredients in the vaccine that your dog doesn’t tolerate well. That was the case for my dog. But there’re some things that I’ve discovered along the way – first, not all dogs can tolerate the “one size fits all” vaccine protocol. And there are alternatives, such as titer testing, following a “minimal” protocol, and using only thimerosal-free vaccines when you do have to vaccine. I’ve had many friends tell me their vets “don’t do” titer testing or thimerosal-free… but there are labs that you can use, where you get the lab order from them, have your vet do the blood draw & have your vet send the blood to them for titer testing. It’s no different from what your vet already does – they are just shipping to your lab of choice instead of to their usual lab. Same thing with the vaccine – you order it and have it sent to your vet in advance. The other thing is, the reaction my dog had gave me a “heads-up” to have his immune system checked. There’s a great organization called Hemopet (www.hemopet.org) that did a comprehensive immune system analysis on my dog & the director, Dr. Jean Dodds did a personal review for no additional cost – she sent me a report that explained the results in great detail and provided me with a list of supplements to correct his immune deficiency. She talked with me by phone & email over the next couple months while I got my dog stabilized at no additional cost. It completely changed my dogs health and was money well spent!. As an aside, the immune testing order form doesn’t come up on their website so you’ll have to call or email and ask them how to order it. Again, your vet draws the blood and sends it to their lab or to Cornell University…I forget which, but the order form has the shipping instructions on it.
Bottom line – the fact that you caught it so early means you can deal with it and get to them bottom of it. Taking charge over it will go a long way toward alleviating the stress and anxiety you are feeling right now. I promise!
Best to you & your pup!

[Lilmonster]

Question about the pumpkin – I’ve been doing an approximately 50-50 beef pumpkin mix because I saw it suggested somewhere as a food elimination diet, but wondering if I continue to feed so much pumpkin if she’ll end up constipated from all the fiber? Currently it’s roughly 6 or 7 oz of pumpkin to 8 oz meat, twice a day. I’m thinking the answer to this is going to be “as long as her poops look fine then it’s ok” – someone correct me if I’m wrong please!

Actually, I feel kind of silly asking this but what exactly constitutes dog constipation? How many days of no poops would be considered abnormal? I’ve noticed Lily is already pooping MUCH less since we switched her to raw – we used to call her poop monster. I’m kind of amazed at the difference. So much unnecessary stuff in that kibble!

[Lilmonster]

Never mind about my first and second questions everyone, they’ve been resolved!

FYI to any other newbies out there feeling lost or thinking about buying one of the recommended raw books, Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs & Cats just arrived in the mail today, and taking a quick flip through it I already feel so relieved. I was on the fence about buying it because I had already read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and still felt confused, so I was worried that getting another book with more information would just add to the overwhelmingness. Fortunately, it’s really well organized and gives menu plans that are easy to follow, as well as detailed information about essential and optimal vitamins and minerals. While Steve Brown’s book is also very informative, it wasn’t quite as straightforward, at least to me.

[USA]

Hi Liz and Mr Lou!

You have very good instincts and Mr Lou is lucky to have you! And of course you are lucky to have Mr Lou!

The frozen green tripe is an excellent source of digestive enzymes and should eliminate the need for adding digestive enzymes to Mr Lou’s diet. Because he received an antibiotic shot which kills the good as well as the bad bacteria I would add probiotics to help replenish his gut. I use this one from Vitacost and it looks like they deliver to Canada.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-probiotic-15-35-35-billion-cfu-60-vegetarian-capsules-9

Start slowly. Half a capsule every other day added to his largest meal. If everything is Okay after 6 days you can go to 1 capsule a day sprinkled on his food. After a month you can reduce it to 1 capsule every other day if you’d like.

k9choicefoods looks like a good food. I couldn’t find the numbers for Protein and Fat but I like the way they raise their animals and their quality seems outstanding.

I would stay away from kibble for multiple reasons. It is a super processed food that is as far away from raw as you can get. The quality will NEVER come close to the raw food you are feeding Mr Lou and feeding a whole food in it’s natural form without any alterations or processing is the absolute best in my opinion.

The Honest Kitchen uses quality ingredients but their foods are too heavy in carbs for my liking. And with any food that has it’s moisture removed who knows exactly how long it takes to re-hydrate it 100% or if it is even possible to re-hydrate it 100%. I just wouldn’t take the chance if I were you. But if you do use a dry food use very little and re-hydrate at least for 24 hours.

The water you understand so just keep up the GOOD WORK and keep drinking while eating or after exercise to a bare minimum. There is mixed evidence on raised feeders but I tend to agree that if you use raised bowls it will allow more gulping or air so I don’t recommend them.

Sardines contain the fish oil you are looking for in a whole food form which is always better than a supplement. Mr Lou is a big boy so after starting really slow a 3 oz tin (packed in water) once or twice a week should be good. If Mr Lou doesn’t like sardines then 2 fish oil capsules daily should be fine.

For supplementing plain raw meat I would use Steve Brown’s dinner mix and not a dehydrated food like Preference by The Honest Kitchen (carbs and re-hydration again)

Here’s to a healthy and happy life for both Mr Lou and you (it rhymes)!!!!!!!

[Kritterlady]

Love your well thought out questions Lilmonster! In my experience feeding raw to 2 older dogs and one 2 yr old I vary the diet so so as not to cause the problems you mention. As natural scavengers dog benefit from variation. So they eat a variety of fruit and veg in season, eggs when my hens produce well and quality meats with bones in. By feeding clean quality foods, and yes, on occasion quality dog food I have healthy active 11 yr old German shepherd and 12 yr old pit shepherd mix and 2 yr old Doberman. All alergies cleared up and they run the farm like puppies. Also since their food changes regularly there is no pickiness. I continue to read extensively and ask many questions and refine my efforts but the proof is in the vitality of my dogs.

[Lilmonster]

Hi everyone!

Another lurker here eager and (almost) ready to make the switch to raw. Like other newbies, I have so much respect for everyone here for not only committing so much time and effort to their fur babies, but also taking the time to answer endless, potentially stupid questions from nervous dog moms like me! I would never even have known about raw diets, let alone been able to work up the nerve to take the plunge if it weren’t for this forum, so thanks to all of you!

Some background info: My fiancé and I just adopted our little one, Lily, two months ago from a rescue. She’s 41 lbs and the vet estimates her age at around 1, much younger than the rescue thought – her teeth were pretty yellow when we first got her but presumably because she wasn’t given anything to chew on to clean plaque, so they thought she was 2 yrs 8 months (!), which leads me to think she sadly may have been malnourished as a puppy since they were feeding her as an adult. As soon as we gave her bones and chew toys her teeth became pearly white. Anyway, we switched her to Fromm’s Surf and Turf kibble when we got her, but we noticed she started itching more and more. Took her to the vet to ask about the itchiness as well as a suspected UTI, but the diagnosis for the itching was understandably vague. We’re not sure if it’s a food allergy or environmental – she doesn’t have fleas, and we’re pretty sure it’s not a yeast issue. She doesn’t smell yeasty at all and I think the vet would have picked up on that. So after a recent bout of diarrhea due to too many high fat treats after a training session, I figured it would be a good time to begin the transition to raw after her system cleared up. I fasted her for a meal then fed her a mixture of white rice and pumpkin for two meals, which brought her poos back to normal, then began feeding her a 50-50 mix of ground turkey and pumpkin with the See Spot Live Longer mix added in. The vet is holistic and also trained in Chinese medicine, and she suggested that I switch to beef instead of turkey since chicken and turkey is considered “hot” and could be contributing to the itchiness, so yesterday I made the switch to ground beef and her poo was still fine this morning. But then I remembered reading somewhere (I think on preymodelraw) that it’s not recommended to start with beef, but I think for the time being I’ll stick with it just to avoid changing her diet too many times (unless anyone here would strongly advise against starting with beef?). At the moment, her daily food (divided into two meals) is 1 lb 90% lean ground beef + 2 tbsp SSLL + 1/2 tsp hempseed oil + 1 tsp coconut oil (just started adding it) + 1 human probiotic. She is also currently on a one week course of antibiotics for the urinary problem.

I have Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet, ordered the Dr. Becker’s book, and have read through many of the threads on this forum but like other newbies I’m getting lost in all the information and feeling as overwhelmed as Cyndi was in the thread where she first started, lol. I’m thinking of sticking to the ground boneless meat with the See Spot Live Longer mix for a bit while I figure out all the supplements that are needed and place my meat orders. A few questions that I’d really appreciate if someone could help out with:

– I know you can’t add the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix to bone-in meats, but am I also correct in assuming that if I begin adding RMBs in the PM and continue to feed boneless ground meat + See Spot Live Longer mix in the AM that it would be too much calcium? Ideally I’d like to continue using the SSLL simply because it’s the easiest way for me to not have to worry that her nutrition is unbalanced while I’m still learning to balance her meals myself. I did see the most recent topic mentioning CarnivoreRaw but that’s a bit out of my budget. Hound Dog Mom, do you use the Twinlab Daily One with or without iron? Also, I noticed the Twinlab does have calcium in it, does that not matter because the amount is so low? If I choose to go the multivitamin route, can I then add other things like fruits and veggies and such without worrying about overloading on a specific vitamin/mineral or will I have to be careful with what I add?

– This may be a bit much to ask, but if one of the veterans has the time to respond I would be so grateful. Could someone make a list of the essential vitamins/minerals (or alternatively, foods that will provide those vitamins and minerals) that MUST be added to a diet that consists of boneless meat in the AM and RMBs in the PM, and the approximate amounts? This is the part I’m feeling especially in over my head with. Vitamin D, vitamin E, fish oil, manganese, so many different things I’m seeing that they need, it’s hard to not feel kind of scared to do it all from scratch, which is my eventual goal. I think I’m having a hard time figuring out what is absolutely necessary vs. optional but ideal.

– So from what I’ve read so far it seems to be a good idea to start her on chicken backs and quarters, then begin alternating boneless meat every other meal. How many meals should I feed the backs and quarters before I begin incorporating boneless meals? Also, should I already be giving her supplements during this time, or should I wait until she adjusts then begin adding supplements. As for stuff like organ meats, heart, and green tripe, how long should I wait before beginning to incorporate those? I promise I have read the other threads, but I’ve seen a few different recommendations on timelines so I thought I’d pose the question again just so I can be clear about it.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to take the time to answer my questions!