Hello,
Margo’s dad here again with another food question. We asked our vet what kind of food he recommended for Margo (11 month old Golden Retriever) and he said that he only recommends Hill Science Diet. Margo likes the food and we have had no issues and the large breed puppy formula seems to be in line with the calculator at 3.3/1000 for calcium and 1.2:1 for phosphorus and 30.1% protein. When we met with a dog trainer they told us that we should not be feeding Science Diet and the only reason the vet recommended is because they get a significant kick back…
I am at a bit of a loss. We are on a budget with her food and Science diet works within that budget, but I do not want to be feeding her something that is not good in the long-run for her. Is Science diet bad? Is there something else similar in price and readily available in most big pet stores for an almost 1 year old golden pup that weighs about 50 lbs.? I have looked up Pro Plan large breed puppy and is has slightly less protein at 28% and there is Blue buffalo wilderness large breed puppy and it is 35% protein but a little more expensive and Nutro Max large breed puppy and it is lower in protein at 26% and 4/1000 in calcium. Both seem in line with calcium and phosphorus. Help!?
Thanks! Nick
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This reply was modified 9 years ago by
Nick B.
Hello
After reading through half of this website and the forum posts I’m still a bit confused. I am currently choosing between Acana or Orijen for a large breed puppy (swiss shepherd, 4months). I read that Acana has updated their LBP food to meet a better calcium ratio, but on the website it already says calc min 1.4, phosphor min 1.0 and the ME being only 3375/kg. This showed results from the calculator as:
Calcium = 4.1 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.4 to 1
Orijens minimum claims are 1.3 calc, 1.0 phosphor and ME at 4080/kg. resulting a
Calcium = 3.2 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.3 to 1
Can this be accurate as they are both supposed to be premium foods and belonging to the same company? And those are just the minimum ratios.
As a side note, would anyone happen to know anything about a “Tundra” brand?
Hi Marcela-
I think the slow bowl eater is a great idea! Eating too fast is not good for your puppy. Sometimes puppies eat too fast because they got used to competing with their siblings for food. She may eventually slow it down. But, yes, keep using the special bowl. Especially, if she is enjoying it.
You definitely want to keep her on a puppy food and it sounds like she may be a large breed puppy (?) in which case you will want to make sure it is an appropriate large breed puppy food.
My dogs’ do great on Whole Earth Farms. It is Merrick’s budget brand. Their puppy formula is appropriate for large breeds. Also, NutriSource is a brand that many seem happy with on this site that you could look in to. Good luck! Please give a report on how she is doing.
Could someone please suggest a pup food to wean my lg. pup onto ? He is a large breed & also a Singleton pup, I need a food with the right calcium to phosphorus ratio. He is having trouble trying to stand, I want to wean him at 3 wks. TThank you
I have a year and a half old 68 pound Goldendoodle/Bernese Mtn Dog mix and I have to bring him in to get his anal glands expressed every month. He constantly has issues; licking, redness, skidding his butt on floor, etc. I began feeding him pumpkin at each meal and this seemed to help for a few months but it is no longer helping. He has been on CANIDAEĀ® ALL LIFE STAGES DOG FOOD WITH CHICKEN, TURKEY, LAMB & FISH MEALS for about a year and Canidae large breed puppy before that. Info for current dog food ——-> http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-dry-formula/
I am looking into maybe putting some Psyllium into his food instead of the pumpkin but I am unsure of how much. I also want to maybe switch his food to see if that helps. Can someone recommend a good kibble for dogs with this issue?
Thank you all SO much!
Hi Olympia…..I miss HoundDog Mom’s input too š I thought her list was very helpful.
I am feeding my Irish Setter puppy Fromm Large Breed Puppy food…..the Heartland Gold. You might check the recall lists….I think Diamond has been on there several times. Just be sure to transition your puppy from one food to another in a slow manner over a week or so. Good luck
I tried Victor because it’s made locally (well, 2 counties over). I actually called them and asked if they’d ever had a recall before trying it – they haven’t. With that being said, I wasn’t impressed. The food smelled like dog food – i.e. yuck. My dogs didn’t like it either. It was a VERY short break (i.e. I bought a 5 pound bag & didn’t use all of it) in feeding VeRUS dog food. VeRUS has never had a recall, either. When I contacted them, they sent me free samples! Nice samples! My dogs really, really like this food – think Happy Feet when I set it down for them! And IT DOESN’T SMELL LIKE DOG FOOD! The formulas that utilize fish smell like fresh (live) fish all the way to the bottom of the bag. I currently feed their LifeAdvantage formula & it has no discernible smell.
VeRUS has 2 puppy food formulas, one for puppies that will grow to be less than 60 lbs, and a large breed formula. Then, as your puppy becomes a grown-up, you can easily switch to another formula for adult dogs – they have several options. The pricing for this food is very good for a premium dog food, and the results are noticeable. My dogs poop more efficiently with VeRUS. I have been fostering my mom’s dog for 3 months & have switched her to VeRUS (the dog, not my mom – LOL). The dog went from 4 poops a day w/lot of little kernels to 2 poops a day w/no little pieces. This is significant progress.
Enjoy your puppy!!
Gerard F – check out VeRUS Pet Foods. They have a puppy food and a large breed puppy food. Then, as your puppy grows, you can move on to one of their other formulas. Here is the nutrient analysis for their large breed puppy formula:
rotein (min) 23% Fat (min) 15% Fiber (max) 4% Moisture (max) 10% Calcium (min) 0.9% Phosphorus (min)0.8% Omega 3 fatty acids (min)2.0%* Omega 6 fatty acids (min) 4.2%* Glucosamine 422 mg/kg* Chondroitin Sulfate 300 mg/kg* Probiotic Activity (min) 3 mil CFU/gram*
If you contact them, they will answer your questions and send free samples.
VeRUS is a 4 star here, tho I don’t know why. They’ve never had a recall in almost 30 years. They’re a small company that uses organic &/or free-range protein sources. They keep current on nutritional requirements. You might want to check them out.
Hi!!!
I’m a mommy to a 12 week old Rhodesian Ridgeback.. his breeder fed him diamond naturals large breed puppy food. I have continued him on it since he has been with me. After reading some posts, I’m not sure if I should continue him on the diamond naturals or switch to something else.. please recommend me some good foods for lbp.
My American Staffordshire Terriers are part Chinook, we did a DNA test, they have the black around the eyes & snout!
You’re doing fine, puppies eat a lot, withholding type or quantity in food is a myth. You wouldn’t control a human baby on how many times he/she should poop into their diaper, you know?
Caution is for large breed pups that are prone to hip dysplasia and cruciate tears (like my dogs). They had eating and growth spurts until after 3 yrs of age, stopping at 77 lbs each. I don’t free feed or force them to eat more or less. As long as the poops are healthy and there are no food intolerances, you can start rotating different kibble to introduce new protein. Follow the Bristol stool scale.
I fed Orijen puppy food and now they thrive on Zignature dog food.
Vanessa-
Have you seen and read this artlice on the review side of this site?
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
It has extremely important information on feeding a large breed puppy. It’s best to feed them an appropriate large breed puppy food until they are about a year old, limit exercise and make sure to keep them lean.
They do eat a lot when they are growing, don’t they? I have two 85ish pound dogs and they also liked to eat socks, gloves, rocks and anything else they could get in their mouths at that age. They eat much less these days, but I still have to keep an eye on them when it comes to the other stuff and they are five years old.
Is the formula you are feeding high in fiber? At 7 months, I would think that he should start slowing down on the amount of times he has to go #2.
Hi Vanessa D-
Yes, it could be true that different types of food affect how much your dog poops. Also, you may be feeding too much. Are you feeding a large breed puppy recipe to him? How old is your puppy? How often are you feeding him? The younger they are, they usually do need to go more often. Puppies are a lot of work!!!! But, so cute, thank goodness!
Hi there — I just joined today. My large breed puppy (a Chinook) is doing well on Fromm, but he poops 6-8 times per day, which seems like a lot compared to our other dogs who poop 1-2 times per day. Our vet suggested switching to a different brand of food that he would need to eat less of to feel satisfied. Anyone else grappled with this sort of shift? And is it true in your experience that different types of food lead to lower amounts of poop? He’s doing great with housetraining, but it’s gotta be tough on the guy to need to go that many times a day! Thanks.
Hi T.G
I feel there is an obvious solution here which does not involve moving your 6 month old large breed to an adult maintenance diet like Orjien Senior… Choosing another brand that is not Orijen.
Growing puppies have a protein requirement of between 22-25% protein. Orijen is in far excess of that and for many dogs Orijens fat and protein levels are far too high. I would recommend highly considering a switch in brands. A few suggestions are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy and Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy.
Your two dogs are at very different stages of life and unfortunetly both of their needs can not be met with the same food within Orijen. An adult maintenance diet aside from usually being too calorically dense for a puppy, does not have the correct vitamin and mineral levels to sustain a growing pup.
Hi T.G has your girl only ever eaten just Orijen kibble have you tried any other kibbles cause of her poos are soft?
you need to try a lower protein & a lower fat kibble some dogs just do not do well on high protein high fat kibbles, I have to stay under 28% for protein & stay under 15% for fat & need a lower Kcal/per cup ME kibble, under 380 Kcals/per cup….
I would not feed a senior kibble to a large breed puppy the senior kibbles have more Glucosamine, Chondroitin & Phosphorus, supplements for older dogs joints & you have a large breed you don’t want her bones to grow too quick…maybe someone else may know more…
I’ve emailed kibble companies cause I’ve seen large breed kibbles that have ingredients that my boy can eat & the fat & protein is what Patch does well on, I’ve asked them can I feed a large breed formula to my medium size dog & they have all yes its Ok to feed my boy a large breed kibble but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feed a senior formula to a large breed growing pup…
My boy is turning 8 in a few days & I don’t feed him a senior kibble some are too high in fiber for him & all the supplements they add don’t survive or aren’t as strong as when you add your own supplement to their diet & add a healthy fresh whole food to their diet…
You have to be careful with your dog doing sloppy poos everyday that she doesn’t get thickening of the bowel as she gets older. My boy is a rescue & has IBD, his vet was very worried that Patch may have thickening of the bowel & I didn’t want Patch opened up to find out so Patch had an Ultra Scan of the bowel, pancreas, stomach etc & from what the vet could see it didn’t look like Patch had thickening of the bowel….after rotating cooked foods & different kibbles he can just be put straight onto another brand of kibble that he has eatin before I don’t have to re introduce the kibble like I use too 3 yrs ago, but I stick with kibbles that are lower in fat & lower in protein cause he just can’t handle the higher Kcal formulas.. I also fed a home cooked meal for breakfast or swap around & feed cooked meal for dinner…
I’d start rotating between different brands & proteins this way if 1 kibble isn’t balanced properly, or something else is wrong with the kibble like the omega 6 is too high & the omega 3 is real low causing health problems this way they are not eating the same kibble for too long to cause any serious health problems…
I’d start looking at other large breed formula’s where the protein fat is lower then what she’s eating at the moment also change the protein get a different protein…
There’s Earthborn Holistic, they have never had a recall, there’s “Victor” or “Sport Dog Food Elite” Sport Dog Food has similar ingredients as Victor kibble but is cheaper, there’s Ziwi Peak is air dried raw & has wet tin foods as well my cat loves Ziwi Peak…There’s Canidae there’s a few really good kibbles around, they all don’t have to be 5 stars kibble…start adding fresh whole foods to the kibble…I follow Rodney Habib on face Book he’s got a really good video this week about chicken kibbles being high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3….
Start rotating one of these brands in your rotation that is lower in fat & protein with different ingredients also look at the Kcals per cup, pick a kibble that is lower in Kcals per cup then the Orijen she is eating at the moment…I can not feed any kibbles that are over 400Kcals per cup to my IBD dog, it’s just too much for him to digest & he does sloppy big poos about 3-4 a day…
I like kibbles where he only does 2 poos a day, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & Canidae Life Stages, All Life Stages formula, he only does 2 firm poos a day & poo’s are small….
Home Page
http://www.sportdogfood.com/grain-free-large-breed-large-bites-30-14/
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
http://ziwipeak.com/
I have a 6 month old Golden who has been on Orijen large breed puppy since I brought her home at 8 weeks. Her stool has always been like soft serve ice cream – sometimes a bit better. I’ve given her probiotics, rice, pumpkin and it helps a little. I want to switch her to a great food that will firm up her poo. And from what I’ve read, she is probably old enough to go to an adult food soon. I’m just not happy with the potato and legumes I’m seeing in even Acana foods.
I also have an 8 year old German Shepherd mix on Orijen Senior. He had the same issue as the Golden on Orijen Adult, but does GREAT and looks amazing on Orijen Senior. It would be super convenient to feed them both the same food, but like I said, I really like the Orijen ingredients better than any other food I’ve seen.
I’ve been doing a side by side comparison of the Orijen adult to Orijen senior. It really isn’t that different except less fat, more fiber. Acana is quite far off in comparison – more calcium than I’d like too.
So, if the food is good, the nutrients are there, and the calcium levels are not too high (they aren’t I checked using the calcium/phosporus calculator on this site) would there be any harm in trying Orijen senior for my 6 month old? What do I need to consider?
Here’s the comparison. Sorry the formatting is wonky.
. Orijen adult , orijen senior, acana
Crude protein (min.) 38% 38% 29Ā %
Crude fat (min.) 18% 15% 17Ā %
Crude fiber (max.) 5% 8% 6Ā %
Moisture (max.) 10% 10% 12Ā %
Calcium (min./max) 1.3 / 1.6 % 1.2 / 1.5 % 1.70%
Phosphorus (min./max) 1 / 1.3 % 0.9 / 1.2 % 1Ā %
Omega-6 (min.) 3% 2.50% 2.10%
Omega-3 (min.) 1.10% 1% 0.8Ā %
DHA (min.) 0.60% 0.60% 0.15%
EPA (min.) 0.30% 0.30% 0.15%
Ash (max.) 8% 8% 9Ā %
Glucosamine (min.) 1400 mg/kg 1400 mg/kg 600 mg/kg
Chondroitin (min.) 1200 mg/kg 1200 mg/kg 800 mg/kg
Microorganisms (min.) 120M cfu/kg 120M cfu/kg
pH 5.5 5.5
Vitamin A 30 kIU/kg 16 kIU/kg 50
Vitamin D 3 2 kIU/kg 1 kIU/kg 3500
Vitamin E 470 IU/kg 400 IU/kg 250
Vitamin B12 0.5 mg/kg 0.5 mg/kg 0.15
Thiamine 70 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Riboflavin 55 mg/kg 45 mg/kg
Niacin 390 mg/kg 450 mg/kg
Pan. Acid (B5) 64 mg/kg 50 mg/kg
Pyridoxine (B6) 52 mg/kg 38 mg/kg
Folic Acid 4.7 mg/kg 5.2 mg/kg 1.3
Choline 2400 mg/kg 2700 mg/kg 1900
Sodium 0.30% 0.40% 0.3
Chloride 0.60% 0.64% 0.5
Potassium 1.00% 0.77% 0.8
Magnesium 0.12% 0.10% 0.13
Manganese 25 mg/kg 27 mg/kg
Selenium 1.2 mg/kg 0.9 mg/kg
Iron 230 mg/kg 240 mg/kg 180
Zinc 240 mg/kg 200 mg/kg 255
Copper 26 mg/kg 26 mg/kg 20
Iodine 3.6 mg/kg 1.8 mg/kg 2.7
Lysine 2.40% 2.45% 2.08
Tryptophan 0.40% 0.38% 1.2
Threonine 1.60% 1.50% 0.46
Tyrosine 0.98% 0.98%
Methionine 0.80% 0.80%
Isoleucine 1.50% 1.50% 1.15
Leucine 2.90% 2.90% 2.2
Valine 1.90% 1.85% 1.5
Arginine 2.50% 2.20% 2.15
Phenylalanine 1.60% 1.60% 1.38
Histidine 0.90% 0.80% 0.71
Cystine 0.40% 0.35% 0.32
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This topic was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by
T. G..
I feel like too much crap has gone down with Blue Buffalo to feed their food.
If he likes Wellness and does well on it, I’d keep that going!
Also check out the Large Breed puppy article and thread to make sure you’ve got safe calcium levels.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by
Molly F.
Hi MomOfThor-
Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy is not appropriate for a large breed puppy as goldenstar mentioned. When I sent them a follow up email asking why their formulations were not in line with current research regarding nutrition for growing large and giant breeds from the last 20 years, their answer was that they are in the process of reformulating their LBP line to be more in line with up to date research. Not sure when that new formula is due out as she did not tell me.
Regarding what to look for in a LBP food. The calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio are what matters. Protein has long since been proven to be a non factor for large and giant breed growth. Unless the company provides (usually on their website) a nutrient analysis that provides the average or MAX Ca and Phos levels, you will need to do what I do and email the company directly requesting the info. The calcium calculator on this site will not work without the average or MAX Ca and Phos. If the company is unwilling to provide you with those numbers or does not understand what you are asking for, run far far away from that food.
You should be a looking for a food that has a ca/phos ratio between 1.1:1-1.5:1 and a ca/kcal ratio of 3g/1000kcals. Slightly higher or lower is not bad, but deviating too far from that is going to cause a problem. It is best to use a food with the least energy density during growth.
Star rating is of little importance especially when the food is as off the mark as both you mentioned in your posts.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 1 month ago by
pitlove.
Wellness core large breed puppy grain free has this ratio Calcium = 5.6 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.7 to 1 @ Calcium (Max)2.00% Phosphorus (Max)1.15% which is lower than HS but still more than recommended. So really is there a proper food with the right ratio out there?
MomOfThorā¦I copied this information from pitluv’s post on page 41 about Holistic Select Large breed puppy food. I think the calcium and calcium phosphorus ratio is too high for large breed puppy food.
From pitluv’s post:
I got an email back from Holistic Select regarding the Large & Giant Breed Puppy formula. When I used the numbers they gave me and put them into the calculator tool on here this is what I got
Calcium = 6.8 g per 1000 kcal
Ca to P ratio = 1.8 to 1
WAY too highā¦
Unless the ingredients have changed since that post.
My 20-week old golden retriever has been on Hills w/d kibble for the better part of a month, and before that canned i/d due to ongoing problems with loose stool/diarrhea. The time he has been on w/d has been the best stools he has had since we got him at 8 weeks. I might even go so far as to say they are normal, if voluminous.
However, neither w/d nor I/d is a puppy food, and I would like very much to get him onto an appropriate large breed puppy food ASAP. To that end, I have tried to wean him onto Wellness Core but each time I do (I have tried twice, the second time taking twice as long to do so), he gets diarrhea. I tried adding pumpkin the first time and it helped for a day but then not. The second time I tried psyllium (1/4 tsp twice a day to start) but either his reaction to the Wellness was worse this time or the psyllium REALLY did not agree with him because we ended up with liquid diarrhea (worst ever) before he was even up to 50% puppy food and 1/2tsp psyllium. He even pooped in his crate overnight!
I have taken him back to straight w/d and expect that his stool will normalize quickly. However, I am now really concerned about what food to try next. I am fairly convinced it is the fiber content of the w/d which is keeping things normal, but no puppy food I have seen comes close to that level of fiber. The highest I have seen is ProPlan, and that’s still not close.
Any suggestions would be welcome. Oh, and before you ask, yes he has been checked by a vet, including an internist.
Hi, I’m bringing home a Golden puppy in 2 weeks and he is eating Acana Heritage Fresh water Fish. I don’t see any Acanas in the large breed puppy list and was wondering if it’s not good for a large breed puppy or if it is too new to have made the list. It says “all life stages” on the bag. I plugged in the numbers in the calculator, 1% calcium, .8 phosphorus, and 3475 calories. It comes to 2.9 g per 1000kcal and Ca to P ratio = 1.3-1. It looks like it fits into the levels for large breed puppies. I have a call into Acana to make sure I have the max levels and not min., with nothing changing does this food work for a large breed puppy?
One other question if it doesn’t work out, what else can I feed him that doesn’t have chicken or white potatoes? Chicken because my other dog is allergic to it, and white potatoes per the breeder. I’d prefer grain free if possible.
Thanks in advance.
We’ve been feeding our 11 month old black lab who we switched over to Blue Buffalo Wilderness Large Breed Puppy food when we brought her home at 12 weeks. This past August we transitioned her over to Blue Buffalo Life Protection Formula Large Breed Puppy. She is now 11 months old and we are moving each of our Labs (we have 3) away from Blue. They have had more diarrhea since they’ve been eating Blue than at any other time in their lives. I’m not sure what it is about Blue, but it is making our dogs sick. They’ve had multiple recalls through the years – most recent MAY 2016 – and I have lost faith in them.
Hi Nick-
I’m not familiar with Advantage. Could you mean Authority?
A 9 months old your pup’s ability to regulate calcium is starting to mature. She still is not fully able to regulate it, but she is past the critical growth period at least. I’d still recommend finding out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus and using the calcium calculator on this site to make sure it’s safe to feed. If the company is difficult to contact or unwilling to give you a nutrient analysis on their large breed puppy formula, I’d go with another food.
Hi, yes I like Pro Plan. Mainly because it has been AAFCO feed trialed on large breed puppies and is formulated by veterinary nutritionists. Not to mention Purina are one of the two leading researchers in the industry on the topic of large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. People may view their products as inferior because they feel they use low quality ingredients. I feel those people are misinformed greatly about the proper way to evaluate a pet food.
I would also like to add that I like Fromm as well because of the companies long standing history and committment to quality control, similar to Purina.
Hi Jeannine-
You will need to email the company to find out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus levels of the food the breeder has your puppy on and then input those values into the tool found here: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
If the food falls between a ratio of 1.1:1-1.5:1 for Ca/Phos and a 3g/1000kcal Ca/calorie ratio then the food is safe.
A lot of breeders, vet’s, rescues, dog clubs etc are still unaware that calcium and phosphorus, plus weight gain are what put large and giant breed puppies at higher risk for DOD’s and not protein. So they focus on low protein puppy foods, not realizing protein is not the issue.
Anybody know how the Calcium Content Calculator located on this page works?
/best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/
I’m putting together a spreadsheet of my own and I can’t quite figure out how the calculation is done. Thanks!
I am getting a new pup on Saturday and right now am having a hell of a time trying to figure out what to do puppy food wise. It is a 12 week old Mastweiler- otherwise known in the old days half mastiff half Rottweiler (mutt)!😄 I originally bought my first pup, same “breed” 22 years ago. She died 12 years later and I just had to have another of the same mix but in the meantime that mix became a designer “breed” called a Mastweiler. I can see why because you can not believe what amazing dogs they are! So in searching for the same mix I could only find a breeder which happened to be clear across the country from me and hella expensive for a “mutt”! He was the best purchase I EVER made. Honestly, truely, the love of our lives. Too late to make a long sad story short but we lost him August 31st just 8 short years later. January 2 he was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his left rear leg and after an agonizing decision decided to amputate but 7 months later he was gone.😢 Said I would never get another animal again but two short weeks later the quiet in my house was deafening, we hated being home.
Fast forward and after contacting the same “breeder we got BOSCO from our new pup is coming Saturday!! NOW to my question😏- she has the pups on TLC all life stages dog food
but it doesn’t look to me like it has that much meat protein, and I also don’t see max calcium. I’ve read everything on here and am tired of going back and forth trying to figure this out. I was wondering if someone could recommend one that would be the best to start with or should I stick with the TLC? BOSCO was 140lbs and quiet tall but VERY athletic. Hoping this dog isn’t quiet so big for health purposes but you never know! Thanks in advance!
Hi Erin
My lab was 14 lbs at 8 weeks and big in the litter and she is 90 lbs now at 2.5 years . I have fed her grain free fish with a switch once in a while to duck and turkey. For the first year I spent money on the high cost foods such as Orijen Large Breed Puppy. I now feed Horizon Pulsar.
I chose Grain Free to avoid hot spots and because my last lab had cancer at 12 and the recommendation was to remove grains. I had fed her lamb and rice.
I never feed milk as its another source of hot spots.
My lab is healthy vibrant and strong.
Hi Erin-
Fromm is a great food and company. I like their Gold Large Breed Puppy formula. The Fromm website only lists the “as fed” and “dry matter” data in their techinical analysis for the HeartLand Large Breed Gold, which according to the article on DFA for the calcium calculator will not give an accurate read out on the ratio of Ca:P and Ca:kcals. I’d see if you can email Fromm and ask for the “average” or MAX levels of calcium and phos and then use those numbers.
Grain free vs grain inclusive is a non factor for growth. The important things are regulating calcium intake with an appropriate diet and making sure you are using a food with low energy density. Keeping your puppy lean throughout growth and life will help her better her chances at proper growth and development. It is also going to be important to work with your vet in determining if she is growing at a proper rate given her upringing at the kennel she came from.
Need some help. I have 3 mo Lab puppy & she’s been underweight since we got her. Her breeder merged 2 litters for total of 21 puppies fighting for food out of 4 large feeding “troughs”, so most were underweight and had strong food fighting drive. When I got her at 8 weeks she was only 11 lbs, and I’ve been trying to very slowly add weight to her, but being careful to not overdo it. She’s now 14 weeks old and just now 20 lbs. I’ve been feeding her Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast as suggested on Hound Mom’s list. She loves her food, but today I was shocked to find a large cockroach in the bag- dead. It’s a ziplock bag, and we don’t have any in our home, so I know it came from plant. I’m done with this food brand & feel like I’m back to square one. I liked the price point for that food, as well as grain free, although I don’t know if that’s really a huge issue for her. I see Fromm’s Gold Large Breed Puppy on her list, but I don’t see the Heartland Gold which is grain free- anyone have input/experience with either of those and whether Heartland will work or not for calcium? Thanks!!
Hello, we just adopted a 10 month old golden retriever puppy (Margo) and looking for the best food on a budget and fairly easy to find. The foster parents had been feeding Margo Fromm Beef Frittata Veg and it is a little pricy for us just getting started. Are there any good options that are more affordable and easier to find in local stores?
Also, in your list of best foods, none of them mention large breed puppy formulas. Is that just a given or are the options listed fine for any age dog?
Thanks!
Ok, I’ve gone and gotten myself all worried and worked up now!
Here’s the story: I have an 8mo old female GSD who came from pretty large stock. She was on LBP food until about 6mo when I switched her over to Purina One Lamb and Rice, partly because I had read it was recommended to switch large breeds earlier (old info, I know) and partly because she was SOOOO itchy on a chicken based food. The switch to lamb did seem to help with the itchy skin, but now I’m all stressed out that I’ve messed up her growth by taking her off puppy food too soon. I’m thinking of doing her half and half on the Purina and TOTW puppy.
I guess my questions are:
Will it help/make any difference to add puppy food back in at this point? Should I switch her back to all puppy?
I know TOTW isn’t the very best, but it’s pretty good for my price range. I’m not really anti-grain and still make some toppers/treats with cooked grains.
I guess I just need some more input…..
Hi Lauren-
You might have luck with Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. I have a picky pitbull who needs to be on a grain inclusive fish based food and Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach was the only food he’d actually eat. Pro Plan in general seems to have really good palatability. Not to mention he has very small firm poop on Pro Plan unlike on some other supposedly better foods.
Best of luck!
Mary…My Golden is almost 8 months old, but I had some problems with her foods giving her very loose stool. I was giving her Orijen Large Breed Puppy food and had to transition her on to another because she was sensitive to something in the food. It was a stressful time so I understand your concerns.
I had her on THK for a short period of time and her stool was always pretty soft. I also found out that though it states it is ok for large breed puppies, it is lacking for meeting the nutritional needs for a large breed puppy due to its calcium to calorie ratio.
Pitluv… brought this to my attention, so check into some posts a few pages back.
It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion.
It can be overwhelming with all of the info we have available today. I am glad your puppy is better.
My dogs were having issues with the food I was feeding them so I switched to homemade food – which was good until I didn’t have the time to do it anymore. I looked around & did lots of research. I settled on VeRUS. Their itchiness & overall health improved greatly w/o digestive issues. They have a large breed puppy food and they publish their ingredient list & nutritional profiles on the website. If you have questions, they actually take the time to answer them. If you contact them, they’ll send free samples. I get my VeRUS food via PetFlow which will give a discount if you auto-ship. It’s very good dog food and the cost is in line or less than some of the other premium foods. You can find them by searching for VeRUS pet foods.
I have a 9 week old Irish Setter puppy. He weighs 19 pounds. The breeder had him on Iams Large Breed puppy food. I wanted to get him off of that food, and had started adding a very small amount of yogurt and pumpkin to that food….I also added trippet. never more that a teaspoon. I was giving the additions for about 3 days, and he developed loose, mucus, stool I added more pumpkin, and the next day his stool was bloody and loose. We had a puppy check scheduled for that day, on Monday. He had started having loose poop on Sunday, and Monday morning lots of blood. the vet told me it was because I was giving him trippett and yogurt, and pumpkin. She wanted to put him on all this medication, and worm him (negative fecal). she also did a parvo test (neg). It was a hellish visit. I did not give him the meds, stopped everything but the Iams LBD and gave him homeopathic remedies and did energy work. He is fine now, his stool was formed without any blood within about 7 hours. This has left me hesitant to start The Honest Kitchen though. I was going to transition him over to THK Thrive after he had been with me a week…..not sure what to do now. Vet told me Irish Setters (I have had them for 45 years) have sensitive stomachs, and they do well on the “crap” food (she was referring to Iams), and to leave him on that. Iams is not on Hound Dog Mom’s list (don’t know why), but can I get some advice, encouragement, thoughts….any help š I wanted to add, THK, Thrive is 4463 kcal, 1.24 calcium, and .98 phosphorus, as fed.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by
mary s.
Hi HoundMusic-
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like what you are looking for is a large breed puppy food? Only reason I say this is because LBP formulas have the restricted levels of calcium you are looking for because of the growth issues LBP’s are succeptable to.
If that is what you are looking for I can make some recommendations. Let me know.
Don’t listen to whoever it was who told you to skip the lg breed puppy food.
Puppies have different nutritional requirements than adults. And sm & lg breeds have different needs from each other.
If you choose an adult food it must say “for all life stages”.
Hound Dog Mom’s list is a very good starting point.
I sttill always contact a company directly before committing to a food and ask: if their diets are designed by a board certified nutritionist and what is the max calcium & phosphorus on a dry matter basis.
Right now I am raising a puppy that is going to be much larger than my other GSDs. The last dog I had that was so big I adopted at 3 so I didn’t have to worry about the growth stage.
I weigh this guy every week. He gained 2 lbs/wk from birth until he was just over 1 yr. Now he gains about 1 lb. He’s 15 months. Pretty soon I will probably weigh him every 2 wks.
The reason for this is because it is most important that you control the rate at which they grow. It’s not about growing him as fast as possible. It’s about keeping him from growing too fast.
Yes, it’s on the list. Please listen to your vet over the pet supply store clerk. It is important for your pup to stay lean and not grow too fast. But, it is also important that it gets all the vitamins and nutrients included in puppy food that a growing pup needs. And, most importantly, the calcium percentage needs to be appropriate for a growing LBP. Also, large breed food, both puppy and adult, are typically lower in calories and fat due to control growth and keep trim as adults.
I’m sure the store employee meant well as that used to be the belief. There is a nice article about choosing food for a large breed puppy. A bulldog/mastiff sounds awesome. Our neighbor has American Bulldogs, father and son. Impressive and nice dogs. I’m sure you’ll take great care of him/her.
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This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by
crazy4cats.
Hi John B-
It is very easy to explain why you are hearing these recommendations. They are practices that were considered effective 30-40 years ago before companies came out with foods formulated to properly meet the needs of a growing large and giant breed.
Now that we have better choices, it is no longer the recommendation from any veterinary nutritionist to feed a large breed puppy an adult maintenance diet.
This is the advice from Dr. Rebecca Remillard ACVN when asked about switching a Great Dane diganosed with pano to an adult food to slow growth:
“Please do not change the food from large breed growth to any adult formula and do not ADD any more calcium. This is exactly the opposite of the current recommendations.
I am sorry to hear that such outdated information is still being given out and causing more harm than good. The published studies in this area are about 15-20 yrs old now. I can assure you with that information; she is not certified by any Veterinary authorizing body, and if not certified by a veterinary board, she cannot legally be making diet recommendations on dogs with any medical condition for a price. Anyone can make diet recommendations for free.”
This is her website:https://www.petdiets.com
You are able to post questions to her and her staff of veterinary nutritionists in the “Ask the Nutritionist” section.
Hi John B,
The pet store employee needs to sharpen up his/her nutritional knowledge…. that advice is outdated. It may have had some validity many many years ago before puppy foods formulated specifically for large breeds were available, but not only is it is no longer valid, but it could be dangerous!
Correctly formulated large breed puppy foods are specifically formulated to help prevent growth disorders, that is the whole purpose of them. : )Adult dog foods.. not so much
In regards to Fromm…. both the “adult” and the “puppy” large breed are formulated for growth and there really isn’t that much difference between the two. Both report Calcium at 3 grams/1000 kcals which is the level nutritionists recommend, so either would meet your dog’s nutritional needs. But if the company itself recommends their puppy over their adult line, take their advice. Other companies’ adult foods are totally inappropriate for a growing large breed pup which is why to advice to use any “high quality adult food” is incorrect.
This article addresses the adult food for puppy myth http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?A=3501
I dont know why someone would tell you that, but I would “not” feed your large breed puppy an adult food. I agree….Stick with a large breed puppy food that is on the list for large breed puppies here at Dod Food Advisor.
Congrats on your puppy.
I highly suggest you choose one of the foods on the list that is somewhere in this thread. The person who designed the list spend a great deal of time researching and if I had a large breed puppy, I’d use her list.
Hello i tried going through this forum and i am still beyond confused…
i have a 12 week old american bulldog/bull mastiff Mix ….
anyways vet says to stay on a large breed puppy food..
currently on Fromm gold large breed puppy..
a person who seem’s to have alot of knowledge at a pet food store says i should not feed the puppy formula .. and go straight to the Fromm large breed adult food or another high quality adult food .. or im going to have problems… ive read alot online saying skip the puppy food aswell..
and i called Fromm and they say only feed the large breed puppy until like 18 months!!!
im new to this any advice would be appreciated
Dogs have no need for grains and raw food with grains makes no sense. You need to join a raw food community to find out how to feed your large breed puppy. Don’t count on stretching your dollar. If your budget is thst tight, a smaller puppy may have been smart but you already have the dog so now I time to find other raw feeders with large breeds
Hello pitluv – I am new to the forum. I am getting an 8 week old Irish Setter in a few days. I have been reading this thread for a many hours (whew!) and first want to say a huge thank you to all….especially Hound Dog Mom. My puppy has been on Iams large breed puppy food. I will want to transition him to another food asap. He is 7 weeks old and weighs 14 pounds! That seems like a lot to me…but I haven’t had a setter puppy in 12 years. I have the lists, and HDM’s comments read, and am leaning towards The Honest Kitchen and Fromm’s large breed puppy. I will feed him raw eventually, but my vet is saying to wait until about 8 months because he is a Setter. I stopped reading at 850 comments, and would like to know if there is a newer list after that (around Sept, 2013) that HDM may have posted/compiled. The last list I am referring to is where she included raw and grain inclusive? Also, I read a comment you made a few days ago about Orijin reformulating the large breed puppy…is that correct? Is it now acceptable for the LBP list HDM started a few years ago? I remember she did not recommend it back then. Thank you.
Hi Laura-
Have a look at NuriSource. It is a very easy to digest food that many people use in cases like this and they make a large breed puppy formula. Then you can always change to something else when he’s stable or continue using NutriSource.
Hi everyone. I am late to the game learning about Blue Buffalo and was told it was reputable, which I am sure it is, however our beautiful 4 month Charcoal Lab who has been eating the large breed puppy formula has had maybe one solid poop his whole life. And the last 2 weeks has been throwing up the food. I passed it off for a while because he likes to explore and I am constantly picking things out of his mouth. But the last 3 days have been horrible with throwing up his food. I went online to investigateā¦ and found the consumer affairs reports. SIGH!!! I have been causing this all along. So I wanted to use a new food. My question isā¦ normally you slowly introduce new food. Seems silly to mix something that is already upsetting his tummy with the new foodā¦ but donāt want to make things worse. How did people switch over to their new food?
Hi everyone. I am late to the game learning about Blue Buffalo and was told it was reputable. However our beautiful Charcoal Lab who has been eating the large breed puppy formula has never had a solid poop. And the last 2 weeks has been throwing up the food. I passed it off for a while because he likes to explore and I am constantly picking things out of his mouth. But the last 3 days have been horrible with throwing up his food. I went online to investigate… and found the consumer affairs reports. SIGH!!! I have been causing this all along. So I wanted to use a new food. My question is… normally you slowly introduce new food. Seems silly to mix something that is already upsetting his tummy with the new food… but don’t want to make things worse. How did people switch over to their new food?
