[LindaW]

Stupid question from me, but I’m a senior–hey, what can I say? To find the large breed puppy thread, do I look under “forums”? I couldn’t find it there.

[Swissy Mix]

Thanks for explaining about the victor products, HDM. I’ll wait to try victor’s gf products later when our pup is at least year old. Thanks, again!

[poodlemom]

I am so appreciative that you are taking the time to help. I am going to go and check out the LBP foods now.

[Hershy]

I also love this thread!
But I’m glad I’m not the only person here who remains a little (or a lot) confused. LOL!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU, AGAIN, HOUND DOG MOM, FOR THE GREAT LIST!!!

What a lot of time you spent for us all compiling this vital information…I spent a lot of time reading the back of bags in Southern Ag and others, trying to figure out my choice for Crystal, my 13 week old (precious) labrador pup, and still don’t have a choice. But now with the list, at least I can decide from those. I really do appreciate it!
I like Chewy.com as well, if they carry the food…or Petflow, depending on which carries the food I decide on…pretty certain it won’t be local. Victor Pro All Life Stages for my big dogs is local.
Did I say, “I love this thread!”…I have learned so much. And to think of the foods I fed before I thought I knew what I was doing… I’m so glad I know better now. I love my sweet Charlotte, Jake, Bella, Jazz, and little Crystal!! They are all such good kids!
I wish they would teach nutrition in Veterinary school. Seems all the vets think Science Diet is a healthy food. I just wonder why something so basic is missing??
Thanks, again, HDM, and all !!
Londa

[theBCnut]

They are right on the border sizewise, so to be safe I would treat them like a large breed, so you should read the thread on large and giant breed puppy nutrition, because some companies REALLY screwed up their LBP food and it shouldn’t be used. That thread has a great list of appropriate foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes, they’d be fine for a 13 month old dog. Calcium levels are crucial between 8 weeks and 8-10 months. Around the age of 8 to 10 months puppies begin to gain the ability to regulate calcium absorption and they’re through their rapid growth phase.

[Mom2Cavs]

Simply Nourish is a fine food and the kibble is small. Their canned food is awesome, too! 4Health, Tractor Supply’s private brand has a small bite kibble that’s really reasonably priced, around 1.00 lb…but remember to get their small bites because their other foods may be too large size kibble. Their grain free canned food is good, too, and only .99 a can! I will also recommend, like the others, Wellness Small Breed, Earthborn, Merrick, Holistic Select, Nature’s Variety.

[Sully’sMom]

Can I assume when you say that Victor GF formulas aren’t appropriate for LrgBreed puppies, that you mean puppies under 12 mos? Mine is a Lrg Breed puppy, now 13 mos, and I was planning on a Victor GF formula…..

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Swissy Mix –

None of the Victor Grain-Free formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies. The only Victor formulas appropriate for large breed puppies are the grain-inclusive Chicken Meal & Brown Rice and Lamb Meal & Brown Rice formulas.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi gsdmommy89 –

Good question. If you read the criteria at the beginning of the list you’ll notice that I’ve included all appropriate foods that are rated at least 4 stars. The two Victor formulas you mentioned are rated 4 stars. I personally wouldn’t feed them to my dogs due to the low protein content. I’d also prefer to see someone feed a higher protein food to their pup. However, if I were to have only included 5 star foods on the list (the only foods that would have protein levels high enough for my preferences) there wouldn’t have been enough options and it could also be prohibitive for those on a budget. The 4 star foods listed with lower protein levels are by no means bad foods, I would just prefer more protein.

I prefer the grain-free Earthborn formulas over the grain-inclusive. The puppy Vantage is not appropriate for large breed puppies. I was told the actual calcium level for the Puppy Vantage formula is around 1.56%. I did email the company last year about the grain-free formulas and was told the actual levels are generally close to the minimum – I have re-emailed the company to verify the information I received last year but have not yet received a response.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi HDM,

I’m somewhat curious as to why you recommend Victor Select Chicken Meal/Lamb Meal and Brown Rice. I saw in one of your responses that you wouldn’t recommend a kibble with only 24% protein/12% fat. But I’ve been researching all the kibble on your new updated list, and both these Victor formulas have 24% protein and 12% fat. Is it because the calcium content is low, and that’s what makes it a good fit for large breed puppies?

Also, I’ve researched the Earthborn Holistic formulas and the Meadow Feast states a calcium content no less than 1.2%. The Puppy Vantage formula also states the same, although it is grain inclusive formula. Do you prefer the Meadow Feast over the Puppy Vantage?

[poodlemom]

Our poodle is on digestive enzymes and metroniazdole. He is still having diarrhea. Does a standard poodle need to be on Large Breed Puppy Food?

[pugmomsandy]

Amicus, Nutrisource Small/Medium Breed Puppy, Nutrisource Grain Free Lamb, Nature’s Logic, Nutrisca and Epigen, Wellness Small Breed and Wellness Core Small Breed are all tiny-small kibbles. And when on a better food, he should eat less than he is now on his current food so a medium size bag should last you some time. I wouldn’t get a large bag because it would be left open for too long a time. And you don’t have to feed just one brand. Pick a couple that he likes and does well on. For a chew bone, you can give him a beef rib bone or a pork rib bone. Simply Nourish has small kibble too. I pug-sat one that was eating the small breed formula.

[Swissy Mix]

Thank You, HDM, for your response about the calcium levels on Zignature. I noticed you mention Victor’s Ultra Pro. I didn’t see that one listed on your updated listed for grain-free. I was wondering about the average calcium levels for the four grain-free Victor products. The prices for Victor are really good for such large bags!

[Hershy]

I also love this thread!
But I’m glad I’m not the only person here who remains a little (or a lot) confused. LOL!
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, AND THANK YOU, AGAIN, HOUND DOG MOM, FOR THE GREAT LIST!!!

What a lot of time you spent for us all compiling this vital information…I spent a lot of time reading the back of bags in Southern Ag and others, trying to figure out my choice for Crystal, my 13 week old (precious) labrador pup, and still don’t have a choice. But now with the list, at least I can decide from those. I really do appreciate it!
I like Chewy.com as well, if they carry the food…or Petflow, depending on which carries the food I decide on…pretty certain it won’t be local. Victor Pro All Life Stages for my big dogs is local.
Did I say, “I love this thread!”…I have learned so much. And to think of the foods I fed before I thought I knew what I was doing… I’m so glad I know better now. I love my sweet Charlotte, Jake, Bella, Jazz, and little Crystal!! They are all such good kids!
Thanks, again, HDM, and all !!
Londa

[theBCnut]

What kinds of problems are you having? Regardless of what you decide to feed, I think your dog would benefit greatly from the addition of digestive enzymes and probiotics at least until 2 weeks after the last signs of any problems. You should probably add pure pumpkin for a while too.

[poodlemom]

I also forgot to mention Wellness Simple Line Dry Food (Turkey & Potato) is also one I am considering, along with Orijen, Merrick Duck & Sweet Potato.

[poodlemom]

My standard poodle puppy is having intestinal problems. I have tried Wellness Large Breed Puppy and Acana Chicken & Burbank potato. Is Merrick Grain free dry Duck and Sweet potato for all life stages safe for a large breed (will be 65 lbs.) poodle puppy (5 months old and 45 lbs.)? I would appreciate your help. I am also considering Orijen for Large Breed Puppy (many say this one is very rich and causes diarrhea. I am also concerned about bloat. Hope you can help!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi CharlieBrown –

It’s great that you’re looking to switch your pup to a better food 🙂

Victor is budget friendly and has very small kibble. Fromm Classics are reasonably priced – I’ve never used the classics but I know their 4 Star and Gold lines both have small kibbles so I’d assume the classics would as well. NutriSource has a small/medium breed puppy formula that is small and pretty cheap. That’s all I can recall off the top of my head for small kibble and reasonable price. I’m sure Sandy will know some more.

For canned food I’d recommend checking out either Pure Balance (available at Walmart), 4Health (available at Tractor Supply) or Kirkland Cuts & Gravy (available at Costco) – all are $1 or less for a large can and rate 4 stars or higher.

If you want to give him something healthy to chew on that’s also cheap, I’d recommend picking up some raw bones from the butcher. Bully sticks, pig ears and dried tracheas (from quality sources) are healthy chews too but they can be pricey.

[Sully’sMom]

🙂 to Betsy Greer!

[DogFoodie]

Hey Sully’s Mom,

I’ve been here for over a year and I refuse to commit to acknowleding my “last confusion” about anything! LOL!

[Sully’sMom]

As always, thank you 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

If there’s a significant difference in kcal. per cup then yes, you should adjust the portion sizes accordingly. The easiest way to do this would be to figure out how many kcal. your dog is currently eating and when you switch to a new food divide the number of kcal. your dog eats to maintain optimum body condition by the kcal. per cup in the new food to determine how many cups of the new food you need to feed. I’d only do this if the differences are big. So if you’re feeding a food that has, say, 410 kcal. per cup and switch to a food with 425 kcal. per cup the difference is so small that you shouldn’t need to adjust the portions. On the other hand, if you’re feeding a food with 380 kcal. per cup and switch to a food with 480 kcal. per cup, some adjustments will need to be made.

[Sully’sMom]

Looking back a few responses ago, I think what I’m still left wondering about, when I was mentioning the varying protein levels and kcals is: every time you rotate to a new food, do you need to adjust the quantity you feed? This should be my last remaining confusion! (I had my previous dog 16 years and we never rotated)

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sully’s Mom –

42% protein is definitely not too high – my girls’ meals are generally in the 45% – 55% protein range. There’s really no risk of feeding “too much protein” to a healthy dog and this issue definitely would not occur with a kibble – most kibbles are much lower in protein than a natural raw diets due to the nature of kibble (a starch source is required for processing). When excess protein is consumed beyond what the dog’s body utilizes, the excess amino acids are catabolized into waste nitrogen, converted to urea in the liver and kidneys and excreted in the urine. This is a passive process that does not cause any harm or additional stress to the dog. I personally prefer kibbles with at least 30% protein. Victor Ultra Pro looks like an excellent food and I’ve heard great things about it.

[Sully’sMom]

And now, thanks to you HDM, I’m adding Victor to my rotation! Is 42% protein (the Ultra Pro) too high? What are protein guidelines as far as maximum?

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sullysmom –

You sure have some great foods you’re considering for your rotation! 🙂

There’s really no reason to have everything so planned though – just buy whatever 4 or 5 star food looks interesting. You can get a new food after each bag if you want (that’s what I used to do). I also wouldn’t worry too much about differences in protein and fat levels – if your dog has a strong gut and is accustomed to variety it shouldn’t cause any issues.

[InkedMarie]

Big three: I use pet flow, doggie food, wag, Chewys and pet food direct, all at dot com.

[Sully’sMom]

Hi Bigthree,

I’m only going to address the part where you said you have a real hard time getting your brand. If you’ve never tried getting your dog food on line, it’s great! Specifically, I love to recommend http://www.chewy.com; they give you an initial discount of 15% off if you set up an automatic shipment plan (which you can always adjust – they give you advance notice of shipping), shipping is free, and for many brands they do a frequent bag buyer plan! And excellent customer service. Good prices too.

Sully’s Mom

[bigthree]

To all,
Need a little advise. I recently got dog number 3 a female chocolate lab who’s name is Athena and just about 5 months old. I have her on Nutro Ultra Holistic food for large breed puppies which I have no problem with. I was wondering if there was something better out there or something similar since I have a real hard time getting this brand. My other two are a Yellow lab and Saint Bernard/Great Perenees mix and have them both on a homade food diet, yes I like my dogs big and lovable. The vet said with the first year I should have Athena on something that is well balanced and will be kind to her digestive system. She told me Science Diet was the best balance meal for her but when I read what was in it (By-Product) and did some research I was sickened. So my question is is Nutra Ultra Holistic Large Breed Puppy Food the best out there or is there something better?

Sincerely
bigthree

[Sully’sMom]

Any thoughts on Zignature Trout and Salmon? Sully’s 13 mos now, so not concentrating on the calcium levels.

[theBCnut]

Marie

Only if I approved of where it came from.

[Sully’sMom]

I didn’t even know there was a dog food calculator! Thanks 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Patty: the important thing I need to know is, do you eat the meal? LOL!

I have no problem with people lending their names to do food but come on, consumers, just because they’re famous (Ellen, Rachel, Dick van Patten, Paul Newman) doesn’t mean they know what they’re doing with dog food.

SullysMom: I don’t even know about the protein thing, I try to get above 30% but sometimes I have a food that isn’t. As far as caloric needs, find out how many calories in a cup of each food you’re going to feed, go to the DFA dog food calculator page (hopefully it won’t take you as long to figure it out as it did me) and figure out how much food you need for each different one. Make up a list, tape it inside your cupboard near to where you get your dogs meals together.

[theBCnut]

Hi Marie

Your comment made me think of a chef I know who literally picks up roadkill and cooks it up. I always ask where it came from when I’m invited for a meal. He just laughs at me.

[theBCnut]

Hi Sully’s Mom

I like Nature’s Variety Instinct, but I would skip the Raw Boost. There aren’t enough of the raw pieces to matter, it’s just marketing.

I wouldn’t feed as low a protein as your Fromm’s, but for rotational purposes, no, you don’t have to match protein%, fat%, or calories. I try to keep in the same range just so I don’t have to adjust how much I feed by very much. And some dogs are sensitive to changes in fat level, but not usually rotational feeders, unless they have pancreas problems.

You don’t need to limit yourself to 3 choices. I love finding a new food that I can add to my rotation. Keep notes on how they do on what or pretty soon you will be confused about whether it was X or Y that your dog did this or that while eating it.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by theBCnut.

[Sully’sMom]

Ok, here goes, Hound Dog Mom, InkedMarie, Pattyvaughn and anyone else 🙂

Sully is now 13 mos; he has been fed FrommGoldLargeBreedPuppy. I’ve been reading this wonderful forum, learning alot, and planning on transitioning him out of puppy and to……

I’ve taken what I’ve learned here, done some of my own research and decided on feeding a rotational diet of grain-free, and I’ve narrowed the brands down to:

1. ) Fromm Four Star – the most expensive of what I’ve narrowed down to, but I have a free bag of Surf & Turf waiting to be opened, so this will be our first transition. They do offer a frequent bag reward program on this brand at Chewy, so we’ll see if we continue.
2.) Earthborn – most likely the Primitive Natural
3.) Merrick – something other than the chicken, since the Earthborn Primitive Natural is turkey and chicken
4.) Dr Tim’s – I like everything I read about the company, including the price, but their grain free is only in one formula and is chicken based. Was hoping for another different protein base to round out the above.
5.) Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost – we went through some trial bags, and I like the premise but I think it will end up being cost prohibitive.

So, I’m thinking that after we use the Fromm Surf and Turf bag that we have, I thought my rotation will be either Fromm, Earthborn, Merrick OR Earthborn, Merrick, Dr. Tim’s. Either way, here’s where I’m stuck:

Among these four brands/varieties, the Protein Percentages range from a low of 28 (Fromm) to a high of 38% (The Earthborn Primitive and all of the Merrick). The Kcals vary from a low of 408 (Fromm) to a high of 460 (three of the Merrick varieties). Am I supposed to try to keep the protein % AND Kcals consistent among the rotation?

I feel like I’m at the finish line but can’t cross, lol! Help?

[Sully’sMom]

Thank you Pattyvaughn and InkedMarie!

[InkedMarie]

Patty, you may not be me but dang, you answered like me, only better!

You’re right about grainfree…..someone on a fb group bought Rachel Rays Simply Nourish grainfree and thinks it’s the end all that beats all. I disagreed but since she won’t shop anywhere other than Pet Smart, she’s not going to buy anything else. Its got to be good if a human chef makes it, right?

[theBCnut]

I’m not Marie, but usually grain free foods have less filler ingredients so they are higher calorie so you need to feed less. Grain free has started to become a fad, so some companies are starting to make grain free foods that are just as bad as some of the mediocre grain inclusive foods, so don’t be fooled.

[Sully’sMom]

hi, I’ve been off this for a bit, but now I’ve got a follow up question, addressed to InkedMarie if she’s still around:

You mentioned to me about a month ago that when feeding grain free you feed less…why is that?

[wallyworld]

Wile reviewing Hound Dog Mom’s excellent list of large breed dog and puppy foods, (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/15/#post-21607) I realized one of the foods I was leaning towards did not list DHA as an ingredient (Castor & Pollux Organix Puppy). Oh no, what I am I to do? So I did some research and came across this article from Dr. Karen Becker on Krill oil http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx. Yes, DHA is very important to have in a dog food but the stability and quality of omega 3’s/DHA is commercial foods is usually compromised during processing. So I guess I should supplement with krill oil. Besides the Mercola brand, does anyone else have a brand they like? Dr. Becker doesn’t advise using fish oil if you want the best form of omegas.

[wallyworld]

Hound Dog Mom,
Thanks for the time and effort spent on your research and list. We all appreciate it very much. Please know that your advice and expertise helps so many of us everyday. You mentioned you are going to vet school?? You will be an excellent vet one day. Keep working towards your dreams. 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

I don’t know what a Vizsla is but if it’s a large or giant breed, you might want to check out the “Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition” thread. It has the list of foods for the large breed puppies.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Sully’sMom]

It’s amazing that you do this! Will there be a link to the list on DFA?

THANK YOU, and WOOF

[londoncalling1996]

Yes, I would like to add my heartfelt THANKS to Hound Dog Mom! Thank you for all your time and trouble to gather all that information and sharing it with all of us! Cheers! Jules

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I made the first list and emailed them they told me the actual calcium levels were close to the stated minimum. When I emailed them this time they told me they didn’t have any data on their actual calcium levels.

[sharfie]

HDM-
i was just looking at the new list and noticed Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance is no longer on the list. Have they raised their calcium levels?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Swissy Mix –

This is the email I received from Zignature with their calcium levels:

Hi Lydia,

Thank you for your email, please kindly refer to below:

Zignature Turkey Formula – Calcium 1.2%

Zignature – Lamb Formula – Calcium 1.5%

Zignature – Trout & Salmon Formula – Calcium 1.0%

Best Regards,

Customer Services
Pets Global, Inc