[theBCnut]

Kobe

HDM made a new list that has grain inclusive foods on it too. It is somewhere around pages 12-15.

[kobe]

to hound dog mom,

lastly ands most important-is there a reason why grain containing kibble was not included in your list of acceptable large breed puppy kibble?
are you implying grain -free is preferable over grain containing kibble?
kobe’s dad

[kobe]

hi Hound dog mom,

thanks for your valuable and much needed info!
a few followup issues
first, when you say rotate foods-you you nean waiting until a bag is finished and THEN using a different potein source? or do you mean rotating foods more frequently?
again,what do you think of zignature kibble?
has there ever been a recall on Zignature products?

thanks again,
kobe:’s dad

[jamie_aa]

Hey there. My family is getting a Saint Bernard female in four weeks and i am trying to prepare her for a long and healthy life and lets just say thank goodness i did my research and thank you for your links they really helped! So i am trying to decide between the Fromm dog food and this petcurean that the guy at the pet shop also recommended. It seems really good but i am concerned why it is not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles? Do you know if this is a good brand?

[InkedMarie]

Welcome, Amy! I love hounds! We’ve had an American foxhound, treeing walker coonhound and currently have a petit Bassett griffon vendeen. Please stick around, we need pictures of your redbone!

Welcome to April too!

[apriliamille]

hello all, i just read the entire thread and whew tons of information. i have a few questions but wanted to also make a few comments if they would help as well.

my 7 month old doberman girl is a rocket eater. so fast she throws up. i found i was able to slow her down by using one of our deep wall cookie sheets for her food. prior to this she would eat so fast that she would finish in time, throw up, eat again and then go and try to ninja the boxer’s food while he was eating. now the boxer finishes first and stares at her eating. a nice cheap solution to speed eating.

i saw a couple posts on high value treats. i live in central utah and we have a meat and game processing locker here called fords. they sell dog jerky treats that my girl goes bonkers over during our track training. i messed up a small ziplock baggie thats in our training pack and whew, the leash harness and toys smelled like the jerky the next session. they sell them on ebay for 15 bucks / 2 pounds free ship

hound dog mom, thank you soooo much for the information docs. one of the pages back i saw where dr tim was removed from the 2nd list but man it took me 3 hours to get through the whole thread. was it due to it not saying puppy or ALS on the packaging? i cant remember. This list came at a very fortunate time for me. we love our food we feed but due to a short term financial crisis emergency i have to reduce costs untill i get back on my feet. luckily i have 70 pounds of her current food available for her to help with a transition. im hoping to find something i can supplement her current with until i get back on my feet (i hope that makes sense). i was starting off thinking after the first doc of either earthborn or dr tim. but then the 2nd doc came out. any suggestions on this?

also we have a facebook group that is for our zip code regional for pets. may i share your doc on that for others to look at?

[theBCnut]

Hi MrsNix

Thank you for fostering and helping out needy dogs. We’re glad you found your way here. While you are researching, looking for the right food for your new pup, please look into the concept of rotational feeding too. Feeding a few different brands will help keep your pups intestinal health optimal which provides a huge boost to the immune system.

[MrsNix]

My name is Amy, and we have always been hound people. Up until this point, we have been beagle and Basset owners/fosterers, so I don’t have any experience with large breeds. We lost our darling companion, Kioko the Wonder Beagle, last year, and we are just now ready for a new dog. We have chosen a redbone coonhound pup who will come home to us in early October. She will grow to somewhere between 60 and 70 pounds as an adult dog, and that will make her roughly 3.5 times the weight of our previous dogs (except for our foster Bassets, but we never raised any of them through puppyhood). Before she comes home, I wanted to make sure I knew what the different needs would be for a large dog, so I found my way here.

As someone who believes very strongly in getting a dog’s nutrition right (we want them to be healthy and happy with us for as long as we possibly can), I cannot thank you enough–and especially Hound Dog Mom–for this thread. It is a HUGE relief to me to find your .doc list (thank you SO much for putting that together), and this entire conversation has been enlightening.

I haven’t chosen a food for sure, yet, but we are leaning toward the Nature’s Variety Instinct products because they are easy to obtain and, for 5-star foods, well-priced. Anyway, I registered so I could come in and thank you all for this discussion. You’ve helped us tremendously.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi kobe –

The trout and salmon formula is appropriate for large breed puppies. They recently came out with two new formulas – duck and zssential (a multi-protein formula) – and I haven’t had a chance to look into either of those formulas yet. While I do believe you should reserve a couple novel protein sources in the even that your dog ever does develop allergies, there’s no reason to avoid a limited ingredient kibble just because your dog doesn’t have food allergies. In fact, I prefer single protein kibbles so that when I rotate I know my dog isn’t getting exposed to the same protein source daily. My dogs eat raw now and I only feed one protein per meal.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsue –

I don’t believe that I ever got the calcium levels from OC Raw – I’ll have to look into it. It does look like a good food though (ingredient-wise) and I’ve spoken to their customer service on a few occasions for other reasons, not related to calcium, and they were friendly.

[kobe]

Dear Hound Dog Mom,

thanks again for your info!!
one last question–what do YOU think of Zignature kibble?-i just received samples of a limited ingredient kibble with the Zignature label
do you think it meets your requirements –or not–to feed a 5 month old bernese puppy?
also, is it better to avoid limited ingredient kibble if my pup has no food allergies?

your advice is much appreciated

Kobe’s dad

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks again HDM for all the great advice. I visited a high end food shop with a very good friend/dog trainer/vet tech today. She knows the owner. He recommended OC Raw. It’s not on your recommended list but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it mentioned on this thread. But it’s almost impossible to search unless I’ve missed something. I did ask about the kcals and a some are under your suggested limit and it’s a 5 star food on DFA. Can you please give me your impressions (again?)?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe’s Dad –

The calcium percentages listed on the website/package are lower than what I stated because websites an packaging typically (as is the case with Earthborn) state the guanteed minimum level of calcium (this is why it says “min”) – not the actual level of calcium or maximum which is what is important. The actual level is often quite a bit higher than the minimum. For all the foods on my list I contacted the companies directly to obtain the actual amount of calcium (from lab analysis).

It’s not necessary for a canned (or dry food) to be labeled for large breed puppies – it just needs to have appropriate calcium levels and be approved for growth/als. If you’re just using the canned food as a topper (20% or less of the diet) I wouldn’t worry about calcium levels.

Weruva is a great, high quality food. I believe their dog formulas are approved for adult maintenance only – this is fine if you’re just using the canned as a topper but it wouldn’t be appropriate as a sole diet for a puppy.

[theBCnut]

Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast or Coastal Catch are both safe for a growing GD puppy. But what do you consider not too expensive?

[88laly99]

hi all want to know. what food I can give my great dane 6 months that is not too expensive. and of good quality.?

[kobe]

hi HDM,

i appreciate all the above and i am learning more from you than my vet!!
a few more basic questions
first,how come the EARTHBORN puppy kibble ha a listed calcium perctage i believe less than what you were told? i will also double check on the EARTHBORN web page.
second,do you recommend wet food that is labeled as for puppies–i dont think their are wet foods titled for large breed pups—OR should i stay away from wet foods advertised for puppies?
third, my maine coon cats love weruva wet food–as you know this company makes a dog wet food too-any feelings or recomendations on using weruva wet food for dogs as an add on to kibble?
LASTLY,when i first got the pup, i was told that a well known Berner breeder was using Natural Balance limited ingredient-duck formulas-my veterinarian did not recommend this-stating that limited ingredient kibble should not be first-line in an otherwise healthy dog-rather should be reserved if an allergy develops AND duck shoud not be the firstchoice but shuld also be reserved for dogs who cant tolerate chicken,lamb etc-DO YOU AGREE WUTH THIS?

THANKS AGAIN FORALL YOUR MUCH NEEDED HELP!!
KOBE”S DAD

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

Based on the information provided to me by the Earthborn rep when I spoke to him on the phone, the grain-inclusive Puppy Vantage is not appropriate for large or giant breed puppies. Most veterinary nutritionists recommend large or giant breed puppies consume no more than 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. I was told by the rep that the max calcium level in the Puppy Vantage is 1.61% – this equates to 4.19 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. which is too high.

I can’t guarantee that switching to a grain-free kibble will or will not cause digestive upset as all dogs are different. What I would suggest is doing a gradual transition – 25% new/75% old for 3 – 4 days, 50% new/50% old for 3 – 4 days, 75% new/25% old for 3 – 4 days until you’re up to 100% new. I would also recommend adding a tablespoon on plain canned pumpkin and a probiotic supplement to each meal during the transition period. The fiber in the pumpkin and probiotics should help to minimize digestive upset.

A wet food is not more likely to cause digestive upset than a dry food, it just depends on the individual dog and whether or not the dog handles new foods. Trying new foods will be a good way to determine whether or not your dog has a healthy gut. Dogs that don’t have healthy guts (the balance of microflora in their gut is off) do not tolerate changes in food, I truly healthy dog can switch from food to food with no transition and not experience digestive upset. Rotating foods helps to strengthen the gut.

The wet food can be from the same company as the dry but it doesn’t have to be. A general rule of thumb is that 1 large can of wet food (usually around 13 oz.) is roughly the caloric equivalent of 1 C. of kibble. So adjust your dog’s kibble intake based on how much wet food you want to feed. For example, if he’s eating 3 C. kibble per day and you wanted to start giving him 1 large can per day you would give 2 C. dry + 1 can. If you do decide to go with Earthborn’s wet foods, keep in mind they come in smaller tubs (9 oz.) versus the traditional 13 oz. cans so I’d say one of their tubs would be the equivalent of about 3/4 C. kibble.

[kobe]

to HDM,
thanks so much-i will take you up on your offer for follow-up

first, on friday -i called the nutrition person on staff at EARTHBORN–he told me that their grain puppy kibble was suitable for a large breed puppy-can you briefly let me know what this kibble is lacking for my large-70 pond 5 month old bernese puppy?
second,will i have gi issues meaning diarrhea– with my puppy if i switch him to a grain free kibble–since i have had him -he has only received grain containing kibble?
third,are wet STEWS such as EARTHBORN makes-more likely to cause gi symptoms than more solid type of wet foods?
fourth,should the add-on wet food be from the same company as the dry kibble being used?
LAST BUT NOT LEAST–can you recommend YOUR prefeerred wet foods to add-on to dry kibble and how much to add to what he gets now-1 cup of kibble 3x/day until he is 6 months of age?

again,HDM,i really appreciate your info. as a am quite a novice who needs help[ doing the best i can for Kobe!!

sincerely,
Kobe’Ss dad

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsure –

Pre-made raw food is very expensive and Primal is probably the most expensive brand of all. Pre-made raw really is financially impractical for large breed dogs and multi-dog households. If you want to feed raw I’d highly recommend researching homemade raw and learning to make your own. Homemade raw is higher quality than pre-made raw and it’s much cheaper. I’m currently spending under $200 per month to feed my two girls raw – they’re both around 70 lbs. and they each eat about 2 lbs. of meat/bone/organ + extras (eggs, kefir, veggies, supplements, etc.) per day. If you go to the raw food forum there’s a thread with recommended menus, you can check out what I feed my girls there. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners getting started on homemade raw.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ldarlin –

I found the website for LM Farms. I’m assuming the supplement you’re interested in is the Nutrition Booster for Puppy? Unfortunately I don’t see a complete ingredient list. Where it lists “Ingredient Sources” I see that it contains flax, sunflower seed, albumin, sunflower oil, yogurt and DHA – these are all fine but I’m not sure what the other ingredients are.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

Earthborn’s grain-inclusive puppy formula isn’t appropriate for large breed puppies. Nature’s Variety has two grain-inclusive puppy foods that are appropriate for large breed puppies – Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy. A food doesn’t have to be labeled for large breed puppies in order to be suitable – in fact, many foods that are labeled for large breed puppies are too high in calcium. Any food labeled for growth or all life stages with appropriate levels of calcium can be used. For the grain-free formulas, Earthborn’s Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are both appropriate for large breed puppies and Nature’s Variety Instinct’s Rabbit and Limited Ingredient Turkey formulas are okay for large breed puppies. I personally prefer Nature’s Variety products to Earthborn products, but both have great foods – why not rotate between the two brands? There’s no reason to stick to only one brand, in fact it’s better if you don’t. Wet food is much healthier than dry food due to its higher moisture content and higher protein content – for this reason I would highly recommend mixing wet food with the dry. Wet food does not cause diarrhea. Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any more questions!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary –

Yes – I’d advise starting your pup on a rotational diet as soon as possible. Those are some great foods so it looks like you’re off to a good start! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Primal is an expensive way to go. Why don’t you look at getting some grinds from Hare Today or My Pet Carnivore and just giving about a half or quarter pound a day of raw mixed in with their kibble. Their grinds have good calcium:phosphorus ratios, so you don’t need to worry about that and as long as the grinds don’t make up a huge protion of their daily food, that is the only thing you need to worry about the balance on. That way they can have some of the benefits of raw without quite so much expense.

[Sue’s Zoo]

As much as I would love to feed all RAW, my puppy (and the next one we plan to get this fall) would end up costing about $800 a month on Primal when they’re only half grown!! That’s based on Primal’s feeding calculator on their webpage.

50lb puppy eating anything but beef requires a minimum of 14lbs/week (beef is 10lb/week). Best pricing is at PetFoodDirect averages approximately $40/6lb bag. So about $100/week! And that’s for one dog that’s only half grown.

Am I calculating something incorrectly??

Definitely will have to combine with kibble. But then I am totally confused about how much to feed! Please help!!

[little pea]

Hi bigjake and all. I did the full panel blood allergy test; environmental, mold, food, specialty foods. My breeder and vet recommended this over the scratch test. The problems for my dog were similar, it sounds, to yours itchy skin. I have done a few steroid shots, but I think we all agree this is not a path to take that effectively manages the problem though I do think environmental allergies season is a large contributor. My dog like yours will eat just about anything set down or just spit out the ite. We have no gas or stomach issues.
There is a lot of discussion on allergies and what test to conduct and the more deeply I looked into it the more confusing and controversial. My dog’s most reactive item was yeast on the food panel, but they do not do a break out the type…. beef and dairy, lamb, potato, rice, soy etc. etc. Molds allergy also reflected yeast and molds on food.
In following things up the aspect of yeast has fascinated me.
I have feed taste of the wild pacific salmon that contains potato and sweet potato…we have a lesser allergy to sweet potato. Salmon neutral
I have recently switched to Ziwi Peak venison but it is pricey for a large dog and I am looking actively looking at many things. The ziwi was helpful with less itching. I have also introduced goat milk yogurt. I believe I briefly saw a comment on another forum about rotating dog foods to keep the gut in a good working order, this and following what foods make things better or worse. I know eliminating bread and cheese was night and day with my girl.
My vet also said all of our bodies gradually become less tolerant to specific items we are allergic to…so with a four year old dog we believe we are seeing longer and more aggravated allergy reactions as certain intolerances develop in our bodies.
Also brushing and washing the dog with a medicated shampoo is helpful. Be glad you have a short hair! Try some Alaskan salmon oil. I was also told dogs are more reactive to white fish species.

[Anonymous]

Hi HDM,

I am starting my Golden/Aussie mix on a supplement and I wanted to ask your opinion. I saw your post about recommending Wellytails, Nature’s Logic, and Dr. Harvey’s, but I will need to order them since they are not available locally. I saw a supplement at my local pet store called LM Farms Nutrition Booster. Do you know if this supplement would be a good one to use? Thank you for all your time and help!

[kobe]

TO HDMOM,

Three quick questions for you–since my bernese puppy has just now recovered from giardia-total of 3 recurrences—is it a bad thing now to switch his kibble-since i am ALREADY slowly transitioning from HILLS I AND D TO natures variety Prairie large breed puppy kibble? I AM CONCERNED TO MUCH CHANGE TOO QUICKLY MAY THROW OFF HIS BOWEL FUNCTION AGAIN–
eventually ,i would like to try one of the EARTBORN KIBBLES-do you think that the earthborn puppy formula kibble is good for a large puppy breed?it isnt labeled as large puppy food—————-lastly, whicj EARTHBORN preparation you you recommend for a large breed puppy? i am concerned about my pup used to kibble with grain in that i dont know how his system will react to possible grain-free food!!
i value your experience and knowledge given my dog”s history with giardia– if you recommend EARTHBORN over NATURES VARIETY large greed puppy formula—then how long should i wait before changing the kibble and which form of EARTHBORN kibble would you recommend for my 5 month old bernese puppy?
in tems of EARTHBORN WET FOOD-it is a stew–should i avoid a stew for the pup–one store employee believes that stews are more likely to cause diarrhea–Do you recommend EARTHBORN stew for my pup as a small add on to his kibble?

sorry for picking your brain but i trust your judgement over the local store sales people and even local veterinarians!!

thanks so much,
Kobe’s dad

[theBCnut]

Hi Mary

That sounds like the start of a nice rotation. If you end up being anything like the rest of us, our dogs love getting something new so much that we tend to keep trying new food after new food. Three would never do anymore. Have fun!

[theBCnut]

I have reservations about the company that makes Nutrisca, so I won’t feed it. I don’t trust them to do the right thing in the event of a recall.

[Sully’sMom]

Hi, I’ve been absent for a bit….from commenting, always reading! A brand I never hear mentioned or recommended here is Nutrisca. Any thoughts? I got a trial size bag from PetFlow and was under the impression that it is an excellent food, yet it never pops up in these discussions…

[cramfrominbobin]

I am a new puppy owner, 2 black lab mixes about 4 months old. I never knew there was so much to learn about puppy nutrition, this forum has been fantastic! I’m incredibly sorry if this is a repeat, I’ve read through so many of the topics I think I’ve just confused myself..

First off, I’d like to thank Hound Dog Mom for the great list you put together. It has been really helpful. Now to my question – I would like to start rotating their food and was wondering if these 3 would be good to switch between. They are currently on Wellness Core Puppy and I was thinking about adding Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit Meal and Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast to the rotation. Does this sound ok?

Thanks so much!!
Mary

[Hound Dog Mom]

I believe the link is currently around page 15. There are several brands of raw food on the list.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[kobe]

THANKS HDM,

I CANT FIND WHAT PAGE THE LINK IS ON–CAN YOU LET ME KNOW SO I CAN READ IT
LASTLY,WHAT BRAND OF RAW FOOD,IF ANY WOULD YOU SUGGEST FOR A 5 MONTH OLD BERNESE PUP?

hound dog mom–if you have 60 seconds-call me at my cell 9177166149 as i finger type- quite slowly–i can get my thoughts out much quicker talking than finger typing–i guarantee i will keep it one minute or less

thanks again,
craig
kobe’s dad

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kobe –

I think Nature’s Variety has fairly positive comments overall. I personally feel it’s one of the best kibbles available. The Instinct LID Turkey, Instince Rabbit, Prairie Puppy and Prairie Large Breed Puppy are all appropriate for large breed puppies. Ziwipeak is a wonderful food, however I wouldn’t recommend feeding it to a large breed puppy due to its high calcium levels. Raw is preferable to kibble if you can afford it. If you scroll back a few pages there’s a link to a pdf file which lists appropriate foods.

[kobe]

any specific brands would also be helpful

[kobe]

HI,

I am a new member and need advice on my bernese mountain dog pup in NYC
unfortunately, he was sent to me from he west coast with giardia intestinal infection–the good news is that after multiple courses of metronidazole and fenbendazole,i think this parasite is gone—the pup is 5 months old this week–i am starting to slowly transition him off the Hills I AND D—i was recommended the natures variety-large breed puppy kibble which i have been adding slowly—–BUT THE COMMENTS I HAVE READ ON THIS FOOD AND COMPANY ON THIS WEBSITE HAVE NOT BEEN THAT POSITIVE!!!

I KNOW I NEED to limit the calcium but i am confused by what i should be feeding him—regular kibble vs raw food vs ziwipeak?

any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys!

I feel like Sandy would recommend Nutri Source Small & Medium Breed Puppy at 513 kcals/cup. I haven’t personally used it, but I know she’s mentioned before that the kibble size is very tiny. Since I haven’t used it, I can’t speak for the kibble size personally, but I trust Sandy’s advice. It’s not grain free, but it’s well tolerated and I trust the brand and I know Sandy and Patty do as well. Nutri Source is also a very budget friendly food. They always offer coupons (text “source” to 55678 for a chance to win a free bag and a $2.00 coupon if you’re not a winner) and have a loyalty program (buy 12, get one free on dry and cans).

Nature’s Logic and Amicus are very small and when I last used Canine Caviar, that seemed small as well if memory serves. Orijen Puppy is the only Orijen formula I haven’t used, but all of the Orijens that I have used are some of the largest kibbles I’ve used. Abady granular would be easy for her to eat and is very nutrient dense (over 800 kcal/cup) ~ it’s grainy like brown sugar and the philosophy behind the food takes some getting used to. Abady isn’t rated here and gets a bad rap from lots of folks, but I tried it and had no issues with it whatsoever. My Cavalier is currently eating Castor & Pollux Ultramix right now and she loves it ~ they’re small kibbles and they’re really cute…, if that matters! They’re little hearts. : )

Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit is tiny, but is one of their products that’s made by Diamond, so I wouldn’t recommend it for that reason. I’ve used Wellness Small Breed, which is tiny, but my pup wasn’t thrilled with it, same with Artemis Fresh Mix.

What about giving her kibble a whirl in the blender, coffee grinder or hand held food chopper?

I still need to start the card file I keep saying I’m going to start and take pictures of all my kibbles when I open something different. : )~

[Hound Dog Mom]

I second MPC – great stuff. I wish I was in their delivery zone. I order from them sometimes but usually end up going with Hare Today because Hare Today is closer and has cheaper shipping to NY. I highly recommend MPC’s green tripe supermix and their ground lamb supreme. Just keep in mind MPC only sells meat/bone/organ “grinds”, tripe, offal, RMBs, etc. – this is not complete and balanced raw and if it’s going to make up a significant portion of your pup’s diet you’ll need to learn how to properly balance it.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks for the link EHubbman, and the tip on mypetcarnivore! I will check them out.

[EHubbman]

*waves* another St. Louisan! I don’t know any other brands around here other than Primal and Stella’s, presonally. I know mypetcarnivore delivers around the STL area, and a lot of the raw feeds around here go through ross wells, too.

There’s a group on facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/metrostlouisrawfeeders/338119236322492/?notif_t=group_activity

(I hope that links shows up) and they might be a good resource for you!

[Sue’s Zoo]

I’m having trouble finding any raw brands locally except Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I’m in St. Louis, MO. Does anyone know where I can find K9 Kraving or some of the other raw brands either locally or online? AlphaDogSpecialties.com carries K9 but can’t ship the frozen and they’re in Maryland. And is it recommended to rotate raw brands or is that more important with kibble?

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks very much, hdm. I will check out the supplements you mentioned.

[kobe]

to hound dog mom

i need your advice—i have a 5 month old gorgeous bernese puppy in new york city–
unfortunately,he came to me 2 months ago with giardia intestinal infection from the breeder-therefore he required hills I AND D kibble along with boiled chicken and rice from a restaurant

i have been now converting him slowly to natures variety large puppy kibble–BUT i am fearful that this is not a good preparation-i value your advice
if you have a minute please call me on my cell 9177166149 to briefly discuss

thanks so much

[ebk]

So, here’s where I am on my EVO replacement journey. Interesting that, if you go to their web site, they do a great job of identifying where their ingredients are sourced from. It’s actually quite impressive. However, the fact remains that a number of pet owners have noted observed differences between their old EVO and new EVO foods, in addition to the reactions from their pets. If it comes back, great. If not, many of us have already found alternatives. I’ve tried the Merrick Texas beef variety. Seemed like a very good food, but the kibble was small. So small, that my dogs would only be able to chew a small percentage of the kibbles and then just swallow the rest. I tried the Now Fresh Large Breed Adult dry food. Nice sized kibble, even bigger than EVO’s large kibble, and the dogs seem to enjoy it and what comes out the other end is well formed.

To complicate matters, my Malamute is a very picky eater. Her food tends to sit until she gets around to it or until my Lab eats it. The Malamute actually lost 15 lbs on her last visit to the vet, coming down to 110. The Lab is the alpha of the two and thinks all the food belongs to her. So, I have started to use canned food to add to the dry to stimulate the appetite of the Malamute, in order for her to get a full meal and keep my lab from getting heavier than she already is.

I have purchased a variety of canned foods: Fromm. Evanger’s Against the Grain, Merrick beef, Wellness Beef, Wellness Lamb. They seem to be enthusiastic about all of them so far (haven’t tried the Evanger’s yet). Interesting that you seem to have to dig a little harder to get to the bottom line on the canned foods. Some of them, dry foods as well, are outsourced to other suppliers. The companies don’t reveal who makes it for them. We tend to only find out when there is a recall, e.g., Diamond. I sent a message to Wellness, who used Diamond at one time, asking them if they outsource any of their food production to them. I also asked where their canned food ingredients came from. It’s been 1 1/2 weeks with no response.

So, with very loose controls over the pet food industry, the bottom line is caveat emptor. It is in forums like this that we can share with one another and get to the facts. Hopefully, with enough public pressure, the pet food industry will become more transparent and we won’t have to dig so much. Unfortunately, there are many people (majority?) in the world only do the right thing when they must. For those who do the right thing, only because it is the right thing to do, I salute them.

Sorry for the babbling and TMI. Thanks again for all of your help and advice!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shilohsue –

I’m familiar with Missing Link. Looking at their puppy supplement (assuming that’s what you’d be using) there’s nothing in it that should pose a problem however I’m personally not impressed with their line of supplements – there are much better supplements out there. The biggest issue that I have with their supplements is that they all contain molasses – in other words sugar, it also only has on strain of probiotics which isn’t going to be of much benefit. Some supplements I’d recommend:

WellyTails Puppy Smart Start (I used this for one of my dogs until she was 6 months old) it contains colostrum, marine algae and microencapsulated fish oil which provide DHA and EPA, 6 strains of probiotics, 7 digestive enzymes, antioxidants and whole foods.

Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier which is completely whole food based and contains 5 strains of probiotics and 4 enzymes.

Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies and Young Dogs which is an herb and whole food based supplement.

Frozen foods would be a better choice than freeze-dried foods because they’re less processed and they’re much cheaper to feed.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Hi hdm, pattyvaughn, and all the other wonderful contributors and questioners,

I’ve been reading and re-reading various posts in this informative forum topic. I’m love to have a way to print the topic and pull out all the info into a single document. May have to work on that

Anyway I will soon have my new puppy, a Shiloh Shepherd. We’ve always had GSDs, the last several we’re rescues but we went thru a breeder this time and I want to do everything possible to raise a healthy happy dog. My husband said I need grandkids based on how excited I am about this pup true but none of the kids are even remotely ready to be parents so….

Finally my questions. My breeder recommends a supplement called The Missing Link. Is anyone familiar with it? Thoughts, concerns? And I plan to feed raw or a combination of raw and kibble but l need to know if there’s a nutritional difference between freeze-dried and frozen. In other words are the ones on the list referring to frozen only or either?

Sending positive thoughts to pattyvaughn and anyone else awaiting test results.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Training treats should be very high value – so something meaty. I wouldn’t do vegetables. As long as the treat is small it shouldn’t add a significant amount of calories. You could also do something like cook a boneless, skinless chicken breast into cubes.

[EHubbman]

My little guy personally likes Zuke’s Mini Naturals.

[InkedMarie]

I like Buddy Biscuit itty bittys or teeny treats

[Hershy]

You are MOST welcome, Patty. Hope to hear great news soon!