[Duke The Boxer]

I was trying to looking for something that wasnt too many colories as I’m still training him to walk on a leash and to potty on the grass and not the outside tile; which isn’t a huge deal but I want him to know where is the place to poop. Haha. Back to the training treats I was reading maybe something like baby carrots? I took him to the vet today and he is 22 pounds at close to 16 weeks old. I got a fecal test done and nothing came up. He looks healthy, the ribs are barely visible but honestly I rather keep him a littler slimmer before he gets neutered so he will gain not as much weight. He is still getting the proper food portions and today I just started rotating in wellness core.

[theBCnut]

Thanks for the good thoughts and especially the prayers everyone.

My favorite treats and my dogs too are the freeze dried foods, lots of meat and not much else, very little processing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My favorite training treats are ZiwiPeak food, Vital Essential’s freeze-dried nibblets and Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw (in the nuggets). I like to use complete and balanced foods for treats whenever possible and the dogs seem to really like these foods.

[Sully’sMom]

These are good training treats: http://charleebear.com/

Pattyvaughn: good luck, I’ll hold good thoughts…

[Duke The Boxer]

Hey hdm I know this is off topic but can you recomend a good small treat for training my little one? 🙂 the treats I’m using now are only 1 1/2 calorie per soft kibble. Pet botanics is the name of the brand.

[theBCnut]

Hi HDM

Yeah, it was the histiocytoma. It kept right on growing, and since it was right over the veins and arteries in her front leg, I didn’t want to let it get too big before we went ahead and removed it. Good thing too, because it had some suspicious spots in it. They were going to wait to send it to pathology until the vet in the practice who is their expert got back in town,which was Monday, so I should hear any day now.

[avamom]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom! I will check out the ingredients on those!

[Hershy]

Thanks, HDM. I am happy and relieved!:))

[Hound Dog Mom]

Patty, I must have missed where you were having a cancer test on Angel. Was it the histiocytoma? I hope everything goes well! I’ll be praying for you!

[EHubbman]

Thank you so so much for all the info! Are there any special considerations I need to take with a growing large breed pup?

I’ve seen a few forums mention that cod liver oil can be bad for a pup, even though it aids in brain development.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey Hersy – So glad to hear Charlotte is cancer free! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi avamom –

I would recommend feeding a food of the list of appropriate large and giant breed puppy foods posted here. Blue Buffalo Wilderness and Nutro Natural Choice are not appropriate foods for a growing giant breed puppy such as a Mastiff. The Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Turkey formula or the rabbit formula might be a good food to try. Sometimes with sensitive dogs it’s trial and error until you figure out which foods are causing the issues.

[Hershy]

Thank you, EHubbman! : )

[theBCnut]

How old is your Doodle? They can eat the same food, but if your Doodle is still young, you need to get a food that is specific to safe growth in large breeds. Otherwise your only concern is quality and kibble size.

[EHubbman]

Thanks, InkedMarie. 🙂

Sending good thoughts your way, Patty!
Hershy – hooray for second chances! Wishing for best of luck for you and Charlotte!

[Hershy]

It really does, especially since it was better news than I feared!
I will keep on hoping and praying for the best for yours, too, Patty.
Thank you!

[theBCnut]

I’m glad you went ahead. Doesn’t it feel like a weight off to have that behind you instead of hanging over you!! I probably won’t hear for another week on mine, but keep thinking good thoughts.

[Hershy]

Hi, Patty,
Thanks for your post. Well said about the topic of Vets and animal nutrition…always room for improvement, right?…by me, too! I definitely plan to do a much better job feeding my “kids” a delicious and healthy diet.

HI, HDM & Patty,
And looks like I may get a second chance with my Charlotte girl. I am thankful that Charlotte’s cancer screen came back negative yesterday evening, but Vet held back saying there was none, in that she said she sampled only a small portion, so could still be early stages. I’ll take that, and look at it as another chance to do a better job with her. If she has it, at least it is very early.
Thanks, HDM and Patty, for encouraging me to go ahead with the test. Of course I needed to know. Not sure what I was thinking.
Now, moving forward with her new diet, mostly raw. I will start with her, and slowly add the other 3. Although I have already transitioned all to 4 & 5 star kibble. I top my puppy, Crystal’s, Nutri-Source Lg. Breed puppy food with Merrik Grain Free Tripe, and the 3 big dogs have been getting Pro Balance Canned as a topper.
I can’t thank you all enough for this education I continue to receive. How I nourish my dogs will keep improving, and I will definitely keep in touch with this forum.
Will soon add the raw food forum to my list of preferred reading : )
Patty, hope your dog’s result was at least as good.
Thanks, again!

[InkedMarie]

Glad you hada positive vet visit!

[EHubbman]

Ok! Back from the vet!

I was seriously not impressed with the care we got from the one I’d been bringing family pets to since I was six, so we went elsewhere. That seriously miffed me. They’d been great with all our other pets, but then I brought in my little guy at 14 weeks (!) and I think the vet just had it out for him because he’s seen as a bully breed. Vets shouldn’t be breedist, methinks, because they see good and bad examples of all breeds, big and small, bad rep or not. Off my soapbox, though. She wouldn’t believe me when I said he had tapeworms and even brought in a sample with the segment clearly sitting right on top, among other things. I talked to her about giardia and she’s like, no he doesn’t have it, without testing and seemed quite reluctant upon my insistence of it.

SO! New vet, recommended from a friend, who also happens to be a vet tech there, which was wonderful. They were going to run the EPI and fecal pathogen test, but the vet did a wellness check on him and his body condition, activity level, and personality were all awesome, so we’re starting first with a diet change. She said the funny color stools were because the last vet’s response to my saying “please help, diarrhea for a month now” was just to throw antibiotics at him that did nothing, so his gut is all sort of out of whack. The did a wellness check, fecal float, coccidia and giardia tests, and a few other things I don’t remember off the top of my head.

We’re trying a royal canin RX GI food (ewewew, I cringe at the ingredient list!) for two weeks. So for two weeks, all he’s allowed to ingest is the GI food, and boiled chicken as training treats. She wants to keep him on the Fortiflora (because she’s used to it) just for now, but when I asked her about the 15 strain supplement you told me about, she was all for it. We went for the abrupt change because his gut is so messed up, and once he’s stable we’re going to slowly transition him to raw. I love that I found a vet that is all for raw and can’t wait to help me swap to it!!! She seems amazing, and I love her team. 🙂 If, though, the 2 week seriously limited diet does nothing, though, then he gets to go through a gauntlet of testing. She’s almost completely certain, though, that it’s dietary and not anything seriously wrong, which helps me breathe easier.

Although I’m not a fan of the GI food ingredients and fortiflora, I’m ok with it for now, just to get him sorted. I want to give this vet a chance to try what she knows before I just go “Ew, no.” and be the brat that asks for help but won’t accept what’s given as help. That and because she wants to start working him toward raw asap. Who knows. We’ll see where it goes.

Not sure I’m gonna be able to deal with the puppy eyes when he doesn’t get to have his dried trachea…or bully sticks… or duck feeties…. o.o Haha!

[avamom]

Hi, I am new to this forum. I have been referencing DFA since I first put down the deposit on my English mastiff puppy. She is will be 7 months old this week and we have had a time. I was feeding Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy for the first 5 months. She had a rash and I thought it might be a food allergy she was on flea meds and I never saw any. It wasn’t horrible but it was constant. I took her off thinking maybe it was the chicken and put her on Natural Choice Sweet Potato and Venison. It got much worse within a week. Got to looking at ingredients and realized there were sweet potatoes in the BBWP as well. Tried Natural Choice Venison and Potato better but still not gone (this one had carrots). We discovered a beta carotene or at least an orange vegetable allergy. Took her off everything and cooked her rice or potatoes and ground venison for a month. She got too lean and even though she was getting a multi vitamin I was concerned about proper nutrition. Help! What can I feed her that is good for her overall health and proper growth, but that does not cause allergic reactions.

[theBCnut]

Hi Hersy

I agree, once a vet decides they are going to go large, or small animal, I wish they would get into nutrition, realizing that good food will have their patients around a lot longer. But for the most part, the vets that I worked with thought they were doing pretty good. They fell for Hill’s pitch, hook, line, and sinker. I don’t understand how they can believe they are qualified to feed their on children, if they don’t believe the average person is capable of figuring out what is good for their dog. I wish when it comes to nutrition, that they would just send people to nutritionists or at least suggest that the owner do some research. Admittedly, some people are just happy to have their vet make the decision for them, but we aren’t all like that.

[EHubbman]

Ahh, got it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah but he stuff that comes up is just topic areas in general dog discussion forums and there isn’t much there. I wish I could find something along the lines of germanshepherds(dot)com or lab-retriever(dot)net, etc.

Found a couple of good ones for boxers:

boxerworld(dot)com and boxerforums(dot)com

[EHubbman]

Hdm, I just did a google search for bloodhound owners forum and found quite a few forums dedicated to bloodhounds. Not sure what I’d be looking for, but it looks like there’s some out there.

[EHubbman]

Karen Pryor is a good resource, so is Susan Garret. Not sure if they have forums, but hdm is right in that most all breeds have forums who may be better help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Duke the Boxer –

I really don’t use any other forums – but maybe some other will be able to recommend some. Not a forum, but one good resource would be your breed’s parent club – often breed clubs’ websites have some great information pertaining specifically to that breed and the health problems they are pre-disposed to. Many breeds also have forums dedicated to them. I’ve never come across a bloodhound forum (unfortunately) but boxers are a much more common breed so I’d be willing to bet there’s a boxer forum out there.

[Hershy]

Extremely valid point, Patty!
I shouldn’t be so hard on them. I guess if they didn’t push certain foods as “best” for your dog (when I know it isn’t true), I wouldn’t have such a hard time with it. But you’re right about how it would take many, many years. Although if I were a Vet, I would want to keep learning, especially about nutrition, knowing that Any living creature IS only as good as what it eats. At least choose a species to focus on, whatever it is, know what I mean?

[Duke The Boxer]

Hello hdm can you recomend any other forums for getting formation about training and other information on puppies and later breeds? This is my first puppy as an adult so I want to do it right.

[theBCnut]

It is scarey business, I know that!!

Oh and as for why vets don’t learn much about nutrition, they have to learn about all the health problems and diseases of many, many different species. There are small animals like cats, dogs, 50 different types of birds, guinea pigs, ferrets, mice, hampsters, rats. There are large animals like horses, cows, goats, sheep, llamas. Then there are exotics like zoo animals, I’m not even going there. They would have to go to school for 20 years to learn all of it, so they whittle down what they think is not as important, or what could be a specialty. Human doctors don’t get much nutrition either, and they only have to learn about the diseases of one species, and they have foisted off a lot more to specialties too.

[Hershy]

You’re right, Patty. Thanks! I sure hope your girl will be fine! This cancer thing is an epidemic!
These are knee-jerk reactions, I guess, because I’m afraid of what I might find… my suspicion is have I been poisoning my poor sweet girl all these years with all that bad food?
Thanks, and thanks, again, HDM!

[Hershy]

Thank you, for getting back to me so quickly. I appreciate your wisdom and advice. You’re right. I need to know. I didn’t mean to make the cost of the test seem like the first consideration. I am on a pretty tight budget, but I will find a way to do what I need to do. I am putting the cart before the horse. I pray she doesn’t have cancer. She’s my special girl! I guess I have to prepare myself for the worst. I called them and told them to go ahead with the test. But I do know, if she does have it, I will not make her undergo a bunch of chemical treatment (as far as I know). I will to the alternative route for treatment, if necessary. And thank you for the information on what things to avoid, and to give. She is going to start on a raw diet as soon as I can get it together! I was making my own for part of last year, but got too busy. Poor Charlotte has been on inferior food for most of her life because I didn’t know any better. I have always switched up foods a little, but usually didn’t end up being to a food that was any better for her. They all claim to be the best. I am so grateful for this site. Why don’t dog food companies and especially VETS! learn about dog nutrition?? And then to recommend SCIENCE DIET!? I just wish I had seen this site 5 years ago,and maybe Charlotte wouldn’t be having these issues now.

I’m picking Charlotte up from the vet this evening, so am hoping for the best.
Thanks, again.

[theBCnut]

If it were my old lady dog, and it is because I am waiting to find out if a growth we just had removed is cancerous, I would want to know. Then you can decide whether or not you want to treat it and how. Or you will know to be vigilant for signs of pain. If my old girl has cancer, we will treat her nutritionally and work at keeping her comfortable. Knowing empowers you, not knowing leaves you feeling helpless.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Hersy –

Oh my goodness, this is a lot to take in. First of all, I know that a lot of people may not want to know if their dog has cancer (kind of the “what I don’t know can’t hurt me” mentality) but if your vet suspects that your dog has cancer you should have the test done. I’m not sure what kind of budget you’re on but $60 sounds pretty cheap to me. Last time I had my dog in for “tests” (blood work, urinalysis) it ran me over $300. Before you start debating whether or not the dog undergoes treatment for cancer it would just be best to figure out whether or not the dog even has cancer. The earlier cancer is detected the better the prognosis. In the event that she does have cancer (which I sincerely hope is not the case) there will likely be both conventional and alternative treatments that you can consider – you may not be able to cure the condition but you could certainly extend her remaining time and keep her comfortable. Determining an appropriate treatment should be a bridge that you cross when you come to it. There definitely are diets and supplements that can boost the immune system. The less processed the diet it and the lower in carbohydrates, the better it will stave off cancer. Kibble should be avoided if at all possible – when meats are cooked at high temperature (such is the case with rendered meat meals and extruded kibbles) heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons can be formed – laboratory experiments have shown HCAs and PAHs to be mutagenic. Tumors feed on glucose (a simple sugar found in most carbohydrates) so carbohydrate levels should be limited. Supplements such as medicinal mushrooms, turmeric and bromelain have been shown to have anti-cancer effects. Colostrum, probiotics and astralaus are great immune boosters. Let us know how everything goes – you and Charlotte will be in my thoughts.

[Hershy]

Thank you, Patty and HDM, for the food rotation information.. a huge help!

I have an emergency-type question. The vet wants to do cancer testing on my Mother dog, Charlotte, and is at the Vet now waiting for my answer.
A little background:
She has had allergies all her life, but after weaning her last (and final) litter, she had the worst allergy attack I have ever seen on her. I have her on meds to help her with the itching, maintained her thyroid meds, and used ear cleaner for her ears daily. I also changed her to a 5 star food about a month ago (after learning about them), and started her on Dinovite (what is your opinion about Dinovite?). It was time for her comprehensive checkup at the Vet about 2 weeks ago, so while there, so they were fairly alarmed about her allergies, but especially about the swelling in her lymph nodes. They gave her antibiotics, anti fungal meds, and said to continue the ear cleaner and if the lymph nodes don’t go down, she would most likely want to start cancer testing.
That’s where we are today. they didn’t go down enough to notice, so she wants to test. I ask if the lymph nodes could be swollen due to the allergy attack still being active. She said could be, she guessed. Also, she wants to lance her ear to remove a clot that formed from a hematoma (from shaking her head) that stopped bleeding, and clotted before we could drain it.
This all sounds bleak to me. I do not want my dog to undergo cancer treatment. I don’t believe they can cure my dog of cancer, if she has it. The test is $60. Not sure I want to know.
Is there a special diet to help with the immune system of a dog. I’m at a loss. I do not always trust the vet, and debate with them quite frequently about how I want to treat my dogs. I love them all, and want what’s best for them (4).
Please help me know what direction to move on this cancer topic. I am really nervous about it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hersy –

Those look like good foods. When I fed kibble I switched to a new food at the end of each bag. As Patty mentioned, some people prefer to have multiple bags open at once. This would be fine if you wanted to buy really small bags or have multiple dogs because food should be used within 4 weeks of opening (tops). I personally preferred to get through each bag as quickly as possible to ensure maximum freshness so I only had one bag open at a time and only purchased an amount that would take two to three weeks or less to use up. I rotated canned and fresh food toppers daily. You may need to gradually transition from brand to brand at first, but once your dog becomes accustomed to variety you should be able to move from food to food with no transition. There’s really no method to it, just switch frequently.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sharfie –

I base the dosage on the assumption that a person is 100 lbs. So a 25 lb. dog should get 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog should get 1/2 the recommend human dose, a 75 lb. dog should get 3/4 the recommended human dose and dogs 100 lbs. + should get the full human dose. With most supplements (such as probiotics) there’s no real danger of overdose so it’s not critical that you get the dosage exactly right. A good rule of thumb for fish oil is to give enough to provide about 100 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight.

[sharfie]

Or fish oil

[sharfie]

Perhaps I missed this but, how do you determine the amount of a human product to give your dog. For example: Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic

Thanks.

[theBCnut]

Hi Hersy

I can tell you what I do. I have 3 dogs so I go though a 25 lb bag pretty fast, so I have multiple bags open and switch foods daily. But I had to work my dogs up to that. At first I started gradually switching when I got down to a little less than half a bag and I switched every bag. Then I started speeding up transitions to only about 3 days. Then I started switching cold turkey weekly between whatever I had open and adding in a new food when I ran out of one of them. Now, I switch daily. Right now I have 3 different foods open, but over the winter I had 4. When I use up a bag I start something new in the rotation.

[Hershy]

HDM or anyone else,
This may be a really dumb question, but I’m not clear on how to rotate food for my almost 16 week old puppy and big dogs. Is it best to rotate to another brand after emptying a bag, or have 2 or 3 brands open at a time for rotating daily? I have finally chosen some brands for my pup’s food rotation (fairly reasonably priced 4 & 5 star foods) :

Innova Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food
Pro Pac Performance Puppy Premium Puppy Food
Nutri-Source Large Breed Puppy-Chicken and Rice

Does this look like a good list for my pup? It was difficult finding locally,so needed to order from a couple places, since no one had all of what I wanted.
I am topping with tripe.
What is the best way to rotate these? I plan to keep searching for foods I can afford, for changing to after these.
Thanks for your help!

[Hershy]

Hi, Pattyvaughn,
Thanks for your suggestion, I tried the tripe – Crystal loves it!!

[mommyvar]

Thank you HDM.

I have an 11 week old St Bernard puppy, and looking for a good food. I am leaning towards Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit, but someone had mentioned TLC. I think I will stick with NVI. Thank you.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mommyvar –

I’ve heard of TLC but I’ve never used it and don’t know anyone that has so I can’t give any personal experiences with the product. It looks like a decent food although, at 26%, it’s a little lower in protein than anything I’d feed. Also, at $63.95 for 30 lbs., the price is pretty steep for a grain-inclusive food with only 26% protein. It’s by no means a bad food but I think you could get a much better food for that amount of money.

[mommyvar]

HDM, have you ever heard of TLC pet foods?

https://www.tlcpetfood.com/ingedients/ingredients.asp?ProductType=DOGFOOD#

Can I get your opinion.

[EHubbman]

Not sure if anyone else is looking into probiotics right now, but Swanson’s has Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS buy one get one right now!

[EHubbman]

Thank you again! (Thanks to you too, Patty!)

[weezerweeks]

My niece has a 150lb St. Bernard. She’s been feeding him pedigree and I got her to switch him to 4 health grain free large breed because sh has a tractor supply in her small town. Her vet says to feed him 5 cups in morning and 5 cups at night. She’s feeding him 4 in morning and at night. That still seems like a lot of food. He’s a couch potato dog. How much should she feed him? Thanks guys!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Oh and good luck – I hope everything goes well and you can get to the bottom of what is going on!

[Hound Dog Mom]

FOS stands for Fructooligosaccharides. FOS is a prebiotic – food for probiotics.