[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi kmarron –

Vitamin D exists in two forms – cholecalciferol (D3, occurs in animals) and ergocalciferol (D2, found predominantly in plants). Most animals are capable of fulfilling a portion of their vitamin D requirements by producing cholecalciferol in their skin when exposed to sunlight – dogs can do this but they aren’t quite as efficient at it as people so this is why it’s important that they receive supplemental vitamin D in the diet. D2 and D3 are generally considered equally potent for most species, however I believe D3 is the more natural choice. My dogs get their vitamin D in whole food form only – I believe that whole foods are better assimilated by the body and less likely to result in toxicity so I avoid all vitamin supplements. My dogs get their daily dose of vitamin D3 from cod liver oil which has 400 IU naturally occurring vitamin D3 per teaspoon, cage free eggs with have about 50 IU vitamin D3 per egg, Kefir which has 100 IU per cup and beef liver which has about 50 IU vitamin D per 4 oz. Oily fish such as sardines, salmon and mackerel are rich in vitamin D as well. If you prepare a properly balanced raw diet there should be no need to add synthetic supplements.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sp464 –

I would check out Earthborn – it’s similar in price and rating to TOTW and Canidae but it’s not made by Diamond.

suztzu had a great suggestion with the canned food. Tripett is one food in particular that dogs love – I’ve never heard of a dog that turned their nose up to green tripe. Tripett is just plain canned green tripe so it’s to be used as a topper only, not a complete food. You can take some and mash it up with warm water to make a gravy and completely coat the kibble.

There’s also the option of feeding only canned or a fresh cooked food (such as Freshpet or use a Premix – such as THK’s Preference or Sojo’s) and adding your own fresh meat – dogs seem to prefer these types of foods to dry food, however it could get costly with a larger dog like a great dane.

Are you giving her anything for her joint stiffness? Wysong makes a great supplement called “Arthegic” that has boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate – all powerful natural anti-inflammatories. I use it occasionally for my senior after he’s had some heavy exercise. You may also want to give her some fish oil daily, the omega 3’s act as a natural inflammatory and seniors can benefit from additional DHA in the diet.

[suztzu]

I really want to go grain free with my 9yr old shih tzu Leo but I am having a problem finding a “middle” of the road type food I did try Wellness core reg he immedietly gained a pound even though he was only eating a 1/4 cup twice a day so I switched to the low fat. It was too low in fat even with supplemental canned food his skin got itchy and started thinning out the kibble was just too large he was throwing it up. He would throw up California Natural too, anything that has a larger kibble size it a no go. I switched to Natures Variety Prarie Chicken and brown rice and his weight has been stable for a long time now and he looks great. So it seems like anything over 16% fat is bad and anything aroung or under 10% is bad NV Instinct is 22% which is too high. I do worry about long term health risks of using a grain based kibble, I do have him on coconut oil supplement for his skin and coat, cant do fish oil it soaks into his beard and you cant get near him he stinks like dead fish LOL Maybe I should just switch him over to canned but its so expensive. Any ideas on a good kibble low carb good protein middle of the road fat would be helpful. Ive been looking at all the reviews but my mind is reeling, too many choices and what about Dehydrated UGH I dont know.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom –

Being nervous about balancing your own homemade raw is understandable – I wasn’t comfortable doing it when I first started feeding raw. Once you get the hang of it, however, it’s really very simple. A pre-mix would be your best option if you’re nervous about preparing it yourself. If you start using a pre-mix you can even experiment by preparing some from scratch recipes for a few meals a week until you become comfortable enough to do it all the time. Home preparing is really the only way to get the best quality, nothing pre-made is going to be the same quality as something you make yourself with fresh, high quality ingredients (you do need to prepare it correctly though!). When going with a pre-mix any meat you can buy at the grocery store will be MUCH better quality than anything in a pet food. The best meat would be grass fed/cage free and free of hormones/antibiotics/steroids (this is usually noted on the packaging but ask the butcher if you’re not sure). Even if you go with conventionally raised meats that aren’t grass fed/cage free or free of hormones/antiobiotics/steroids – it will still be higher quality than any kibble or canned food. Most grocery stores sell liver (all that’s required for Urban Wolf). I order harder to get organs (lungs, kidneys, pancreas, etc.) from hare today and my pet carnivore but these organs aren’t necessary for a pre-mix. I generally use 90% lean (sometimes 85%) – you don’t want to use the super lean stuff because dogs need some fat but you don’t want to use super fatty meat either or your dog might not get enough protein. When using poultry I’d avoid breast meat and go with dark meat (it’s more nutritious and has a better fat to protein ratio) – gizzards and heart are great too if you can get them both count as a muscle meat (not organ meat!) and they’re generally much cheaper than ground meat. I’d also recommend adding a little fish oil to a meal prepared with a premix even if it doesn’t specifically say to do so on the package.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Betsy – Coconut oil is more than 90% healthy saturated fats – with small amounts of monounsaturated fats in the form of oleic acid (~6%) and polyunsaturated fats in the form of linoleic acid (~2%). The saturated fat in coconut oil is in the form of medium chain triglycerides (“MCT’s”). The main component of the MCT’s found in coconut oil is lauric acid. The lauric acid is what gives coconut oil it’s anti-bacterial, anti-viral and anti-fungal properties. I give my dogs at least a teaspoon per day (although doses of up to 1 tsp. per 10 lbs. are acceptable). I’m currently using Jarrow Formulas organic extra virgin coconut oil.

Jan – If your dogs don’t like “fishy” tasting oils maybe try squid oil. I haven’t tried it for my dogs yet, but I’ve been reading about it and I think I’m going to order some after they use up their current bottle of sardine/anchovy oil. It’s low in contaminants because squid have such a short lifespan and very high in DHA (higher than fish oil and krill oil). Supposedly it’s not as “fishy” but I haven’t tried it yet so I can’t say for sure. Another option to get some bio-available omega 3’s and DHA into their diet without fish oil would be eggs. Cage-free omega 3 eggs generally have a little over 100 mg. DHA per yolk – not quite as rich of a source as fish oil, but better than nothing. You could lightly fry the egg in the coconut oil.

[Mom2Cavs]

Oooh..I’m sorry about your thumb! I guess I might not order the krill oil because they sure don’t like regular fish oils in their food. I don’t know about the coconut oil, but maybe HDM or someone will chime in later. 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Hi Jan!

Unfortunately, my Bella doesn’t like the krill and I got it specifically wanting to add Omega 3’s to her diet since she her coat was looking a little dry. Sam, my Golden pup, will of course eat anything I set in front of him and I regularly use fish oil for him due to his pano. For Bella, all I used was two squirts and it’s pretty concentrated so the fish oil equivalent wouldn’t been far greater ~ she obviously has a very good nose.

I swear it never occurred to me to use a thumb tack until I mentioned to Toxed once how I had literally sliced open my thumb trying to poke a fish oil capsule open. A thumb tack would definitely be much safer. My hands were a little wet and my knives are super sharp, but unfortunately have smooth handles and I slipped a bit and split my thumb wide open. : (

Edit: You just reminded me that I have organic coconut oil at home and maybe I’ll get that back out tonight for Bella. Is coconut oil a source of linoleic acid?

[Mom2Cavs]

Betsy, I always use a thumb tack lol! I don’t use fish oil that often, though, because the dogs don’t much care for it in their food, ugh! I use coconut oil more often because they gobble that up lol. I keep trying different kinds/brands, though, hoping to hit on one they’ll accept. I haven’t tried Mercola’s krill yet, but think I will.

[DogFoodie]

I bought some Mercola krill oil in the most incredibly convenient air-less pump bottle: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx.

You use one pump per ten pounds of body weight. No pills to poke open and no fingers to slice open while doing so. That said, I also really like Toxed’s idea to poke open a fish oil capsule with a thumb tack.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi LindseyPaterson –

Dr. Becker recommends the following daily dosages for fish oil:

-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.

If you’re using capsules they generally come in 500 mg. and 1,000 mg. and if you’re using liquid 1 tsp. = approx. 4,500 mg. Whether you go with capsules or liquid make sure you refrigerate the oil to prevent it from going rancid and only buy as much as you will use in 2 months. I personally prefer liquid as I find it’s easier to mix into the food and I don’t have to bother with piercing the capsules – I don’t use pump dispensers though. Also, I’d stick with oil from small fish (such as sardines or anchovies), krill oil or squid oil as oil from larger fish can be high in contaminants. Coconut oil may be something else to consider for skin issues – it’s high in medium chain triglycerides which are good for the skin and coat.

[LindseyPaterson]

For the fish oil. How much to use and how often do you recommend doing this?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi abby13 –

Dr. Becker recommends the following dosages for fish oils:

-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.

If you’re giving fish oil in liquid form – 1 tsp. equals approximately 4,500 mg. Most capsules come in 500 mg. and 1,000 mg. So for your dog you could give a 500 mg. capsule every other day or 1/4 tsp. oil or a 1,000 mg. capsule 2 or 3 times per week.

[BryanV21]

I don’t remember you saying anything about skin issues in your original post that I responded to. If I missed it, my apologies.

Hearing that I wanted to say that if you continue to see any skin or coat issues after switching foods, then try adding some fish oil to your pup’s food. I’d recommend buying it in capsules, which you can break open and pour onto the food (as opposed to pumps, which allow air to get to the oil and can make it go rancid quicker).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi abby13 –

The type of walnut oil that you buy from the health food store isn’t toxic to dogs. However, if you’re going to supplement your dog’s diet with an oil I would go with an animal-based fat. Walnut oil contains omega 3’s and omega 9’s – omega 9’s are not an essential fat for dogs and aren’t of much use and the omega 3’s found in plant-based oils are in the form of alpha-linoleic acid (ALA). Dogs lack the enzyme necessary to convert ALA into a form that their bodies can utilize – eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA). Fish oils, krill oil and squid oil are all high in omega 3’s in the form a EPA and DHA so they are in a form that can be utilized by the dog. If you want to add a plant-based oil in addition to an animal-based oil, coconut oil would be a good choice – it’s high in medium-chain triglycerides (MCTs) comprised of lauric acid, capric acid, caprylic acid, myristic acid and palmitic. The lauric acid component has antibacterial, antiviral and anti-fungal properties. MCTs are also metabolized quicker than other fats to provide your dog with quick energy. Coconut oil is also great for the skin and coat.

[DoggieDoc22]

Best dry food to feed Yorkies hands down would be Royal Canin’s Yorkshire Terrier, or their Yorkshire Terrier Puppy if we are talking puppies.

If you aren’t familiar with Royal Canin, they are the industry’s leader in science and research, accounting for over half of all research done in the dog and cat food industry. They develop diets based on thorough feeding trials and scientific studies to meet the specific needs of the pets that each of their diets target.

The important things to keep in mind when feeding Yorkies are that:
1. They are notoriously picky eaters – The reason for this is that Yorkies actually have a reduced sense of smell when compared to other breeds. They have a lower number of the neurons used for sensing smell than the average dog. Royal Canin’s Yorkshire Terrier formula has a unique blend of aromas and flavors to stimulate the Yorkie’s fussy appetite.

2. Yorkshire Terrier’s, as I am sure you are aware, are well known for their long, silky coats. The Yorkie, unlike most other breeds, do not have an undercoat, and instead have long individual hairs. This makes them susceptible to breakage, and feeding a diet that strengthens their coat is extremely important. The Royal Canin diet is rich in Omega 3 fatty acids from fish oil to help support their delicate coats.

3. The Yorkie, being a smaller breed, has a longer life expectancy than the average dog. Royal Canin’s Yorkshire Terrier formula contains antioxidants to maintain healthy cells and help to fight the effects of aging.

As far as supplementing, it is important to choose a diet that is complete and balanced, if you choose the right dry kibble there is no need at all for supplementing, and doing so will actually have a negative effect.

[pugmomsandy]

I currently use krill oil, probiotics and enzymes couple times a week. Mostly mixing it in with their kibble or canned food. I don’t supplement raw food usually although hiding a capsule in a ball of raw meat works very well. I’m currently using the Mercola brand but there are several others. Nordic or Grizzly for fish oils. Nzymes brand. OnlyNaturalPet.com has a selection. Sometimes I just give them a raw whole sardine instead of fish oil and then sometimes I just feed them raw tripe which has enzymes and beneficial organisms. Another brand I use is Garden of Life.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi HuskyMom9710 –

First of all, if your dog is 4 years old she can’t develop hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia is a developmental orthopedic disease that happens during puppyhood. If a dog is going to have hip dysplasia it will have it by the time it’s full grown – however, if the hip dysplasia is mild the dog may not show symptoms until later in life. There’s no foolproof way of preventing dysplasia but responsible breeding (only breeding dogs that have ofa or penn hip clearances), controlling calcium levels during growth, keeping the pup lean while it’s growing and not over exercising the dog while it’s growing can drastically decrease the odds that the dog will develop hip dysplasia.

What are you feeding your dog? A high-quality species-appropriate diet is the foundation of good health. Grains are inflammatory – so if your dog isn’t on a high protein, grain free diet currently I’d look into switching to one.

Supplementing with Omega 3’s (fish oil) can help with inflammation. Some other natural anti-inflammatories are turmeric, boswellia, yucca, bromelian and tart cherry. Digestive enzymes given on an empty stomach can help inflammation (like medizym). Glucosamine, chondroitin, msm and hydraulic acid can help to maintain and regrow deteriorating joint tissue and fluid.

Some supplements I’d recommend:
1) Wysong Arthegic for inflammation (sea cucumber, turmeric, boswellia, devil’s claw, yucca, ginger, red pepper, cetyl myristoleate) with Wysong’s Joint Complex for joint maintenance (contains collagen and msm).
2) Welly Tails Hip and Joint Rx (omega 3’s, tart cherry, glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, hydraulic acid, green lipped mussel).
3) Vet’s Best Advanced Hip and Joint for maintenance (glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, hydraulic acid) with Vet’s Best Muscle and Joint for inflammation (bromelian, boswellia, turmeric, yucca).
4) K9 Joint Strong (glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, turmeric, cetyl myristoleate) – also have a version with white willow for pain relief.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi bella5255 –

If your dog is in the early stages of renal failure he shouldn’t need a reduced-protein diet. You don’t want to reduce the protein levels until the final stages of renal failure (when your dog is uremic – BUN is over 80 mg/dL, creatinine is over 4 mg/dL and the dogs is starting to show clinical symptoms of nitrogen buildup). The high quality protein provided by a homemade diet will not be hard on the kidneys in the way that low quality rendered proteins in most kibbles would be and is fine for dogs that have not yet become uremic – reducing the protein levels during the early stages of kidney failure will do more harm than good. I would just feed a standard balanced homemade diet and use very lean meats. Fish oil has has shown to help with kidney disease – because your dog has pancreatitis though, don’t give too much. Glandular supplements can help – Standard Process makes a great supplement called “Canine Renal Support.” Another supplement that I see recommended frequently for dogs with renal failure is “Vetri-Science Renal Essentials” – it contains vitamins, minerals, amino acids and herbs shown to be beneficial for dogs with renal failure. Here’s a link with some good info: http://dogaware.com/health/kidney.html (there’s even some sample homemade diets for dogs with kidney failure here).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I love Carlson’s products – I think they make some of the highest quality fish oils. I give my dogs their cod liver oil a few times a week for extra vitamin d – I wouldn’t feed most cod liver oils due to excessive vitamin a and Carlson’s is the only one I’ve found without excessive levels.

I get my meat from several sources. I do buy meat from the grocery store on occasion (Be VERY careful with buying fish – depending on the type of fish and where it came from it could have salmon poisoning. I personally don’t feed raw fish very often – occasionally raw sardines, but that’s it.), I occasionally order from hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com (I can get a lot of difficult to find offal from these places), I get unwanted parts (usually offal and bones) from hunters (I actually got my dad to give me a whole deer this year 😉 ) – but mostly I get meat delivered from a wholesale distributor. I order shipments of 300 lbs. at a time from a wholesaler that also sells to grocery stores, restaurants and caters to large dog kennels – I can get a lot of the stuff I need (chicken backs, turkey necks, hearts, gizzards, livers, ground beef, etc.) for about half of what I’d pay in the grocery store. The only downside to buying in bulk is everything just comes in huge 40 lb. boxes – I have to divide it all up myself, but it’s worth it considering how much money I save.

To answer your question about offal – offal i very high in protein, about the same amount if not more than muscle meat. Organ meat should only constitute 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other offal. Organ meat is VERY nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to feed in order to provide adequate amounts of certain vitamins and minerals but it’s easy to go overboard. Many of the vitamins and minerals found in organ meat, while necessary in small amounts, can be toxic if fed in large amounts. For example, liver is extremely high in vitamin a – vitamin a is a fat soluble vitamin so extremely high levels fed over an extended period of time can cause toxicity. Remember green tripe, heart and gizzards are NOT organ meat – a lot of people think these things are organ meat, but they’re not and the amount fed of these things doesn’t have to be restricted (like it does with true organ meat). The things that would count toward your dogs’ 10% organ meat would be: liver, kidneys, lungs, pancreas, spleen and brain.

I wouldn’t be too upset that you can’t get Darwin’s or other pre-made raw foods – homemade is much higher quality, more customizable and you can feed more variety. It is time-consuming to make food from scratch, but I’ve gotten to where I think it’s fun to formulate new menus – I would get bored feeding pre-made. If you check out this link you’ll be able to see some typical menus for my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[marmaduke]

Thanks Hound Dog Mom!!

I have sourced frozen beef offal (liver, kidneys, heart liver etc.) from a local butcher and he said that he will save me the beef necks from his kill days, I have also ordered the Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes for Pets (until I can get some fresh or frozen green tripe) and have started the boys on the Carlson’s Very Finest Fish Oil and a Vitamin E supplement @ 400UI per day, I have also sourced frozen raw chicken backs, necks and pkgs of chicken hearts, gizzards, liver…based on my previous menu with the veggie/fruit slop and the ground raw chicken with bones…what would you suggest for a menu? Do you buy ground beef and fish from the grocery store?

Does the beef offal on it’s own provide enough protein or does it have to be mixed with a meat source?

I live in Ontario Canada so the products like Darwin’s Naturals are pretty much out of the question as they are only in the States…

I really want to keep my Goldens on a RAW diet as I feel it is a much healthier diet for them compared to the store bought kibbles and even the “premium” brands providing I can provide them with the nutrition they require to be a healthy happy animal (they are pretty healthy and happy now, but I worry about not feeding them correctly)…

Thanks for all your advice…

Duke

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Marie-

A few things-Rescues often have nasty dry or oily skin/coat until they have been on a better diet for a few months-sometimes they even blow coat and start to look naked.. But, once the coat starts to regrow, its usually a healthy coat. Dogs with dental disease often rub at their faces because of the rotting teeth which of course hurt. Poor girlie.

Once her mouth heals(usually 10-14 days) you can add dry in, but soak it a bit. Most actually can eat the kibble once the pain is gone. I have two rescue with no teeth and they not only eat dry, but one still “chews” a rawhide bone : )

The bathing should help the dry skin as the groomer will(should) use a heavy conditioner, but one treatment may not be enough to remove all the dry skin. I find that briskly rubbing them helps to move the dry skin into the hair, and then frequent brushing(soft bristle brush) removes the dead skin cells from the coat. We also supplement these ones with fish oil etc, but that helps control further issues, but does not resolve the current one-

[marmaduke]

What do you feed for an animal based Omega 3 and vitamin E supplement? I was going to give the boys an Omega 3 fish oil with vitamin E gel cap with their meals…how much to give them? I have read that for a 50lb dog, approx. 400-500 UI or 350mg per day…

Also, what do you give for fish as a protein instead of chicken?

Thanks

[weimlove]

Ok guys, I’m going to the butcher tommorow to get the ingredients for shadow first two weeks of raw food. I’m going to make enough food for about two weeks. At first, I plan on the butcher grinding everything up so I can make one pound patties of food until I can get a bigger freezer. I don’t know the exact amounts of ingredients but this is what I plan on using for this two week recipe: ground chicken, chicken backs, chicken quarters, chicken liver, sweet potatoes, leafy greens like spinach, vitamin e supplement, kelp mixture supplement, fish oil, and eggs with shell. For a couple of the meals I will add in THK’s preference. How does that sound? Any suggestions?

[InkedMarie]

I will give you some advice as it pertains to one of my dogs. I did not do allergy testing but an online friend gave me a list of ingredients to avoid: chicken, corn, wheat, soy, rice and flax. I have since found that Boone does fine with flax but cannot have yeast. He has done the best with a grain and potato free foods. Beef can be a common allergen, I have read. On this forum, go to the dog food ingredients board and the stickie at the top has the list of those foods.
Boone does best with fish and turkey foods. He eats a pre made raw in the morning and some of that is beef and he has no issue with it. His pre made is also turkey and duck. He eats Brothers Allergy, which has chicken liver & chicken at but is doing great on this food.
Something to keep in mind. You have to be mindful of every morsel your dog eats. That means treats as well. If you feed him a grain free food, feed him grainfree treats. Scour that ingredients list. Also, you wouldn’t think about it but supplements as well. Mixed tocopherols can be soy so the salmon oil I give him is just that, salmon oil (it’s a liquid). I once gave him a salmon oil capsule that had soy as a secondary ingredient. We use Bug Off Garlic for the insects and we cannot use the chewables because there is yeast in it.
I advise trying a few different foods, by different makers. I like doing that because you never know if a food will become unavailable or you see a sale on another one he can have. Hope I’ve been of help!

[mydogisme]

Hi, I was reading what you all were saying. Is there anything better then me buying boneless organic chicken from a organic processing plant and boiling the chicken,chopping it up,I can nibble on it my self or fix a chicken salad sandwich but I have fixed Dixie frozen cookies using the chicken,sweet potatos,carrots and making little round balls,flatten them out and place them on a metel cookies sheet in the freezer. Dixie loved them as a treet. After they froze, I would place them into a baggy and kept them in the freezer. she liked the crunch and she coulnt just swollow the treet, she had to chew it instead. We all love our babies and just like our own children, we all want what is the best for them. Please say a little prayer for my Dixie

[soho]

Hi i8ok

Thank you for your reply! Let’s take a closer look at the Plato Organic Chicken strips.
First the marketing claims:
Over 90% organic chicken
Natural ingredients, fortified with antioxidant vitamins, and zinc
No artificial colors, flavors, synthetic preservatives, or GMO’s (genetically modified organisms)
Naturally preserved.
Antioxidant vitamins E and С
No meat by-products or meals

Second the Actual Numbers and ingredients:
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein: 30% min
(How in the world are these treats over 90% chicken and only 30% protein?)
Crude fat: 30% min
(Where did all this fat come from if the treats are over 90% chicken?)
Crude fiber: 1% max
Moisture: 15% max
(This moisture level is a little too high in my opinion to guarantee against spoilage.)
Zinc: 180mg/kg min
Vitamin E: 101 lU/kg min
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) 50mg/kg min*
Omega 6 Fatty Acids –
Omega 3 Fatty Acids –
Iron –

INGREDIENTS
Organic chicken, organic brown rice, salt, zinc propionate, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2phosphate (a source of vitamin C), mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative), rosemary extract.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Now lets take a look at the facts about my chicken jerky:
Made from boneless, skinless chicken breasts bought at the deli section of Costco. This is not pet grade chicken. I know that there are a million marketing claims concerning the chicken in pet foods and treats but not one of the commercial brands are made using supermarket meat like I use. This is the same meat that you and your family eat.

You say you wont eat farm raised fish or feed it to your dog. I respect you for that. But why would you feed your dog pet grade chicken which is a by product of the human grade food business? Pet grade chicken (or any other pet grade meat for that matter) is what is left over after everything that can be used for human grade chicken is removed! And that’s the good stuff. The bad pet grade meats are the Dead, Dying, Downed or Diseased meats that never made into the human food chain in the first place!

Ingredients: 99.8% boneless skinless chicken breasts, salt, garlic. The only thing added to my chicken jerky is 0.2% spices (salt and garlic).

Guaranteed analysis as fed:
Protein 87%
(You read that right 87% now what treat could be better for a meat eater)
Fat 4.5%
(This is what the fat could be in other products if they used the same chicken breasts that I do)
Carbohydrate 0%
(Remember dogs have no biological need for carbs)
Minerals 3.5%
(This is what ash is)
Fiber 0%
Moisture 5%
(5% moisture is low enough to ensure against spoilage)

The chicken I use is Whole Chicken Breasts intended FOR human consumption. Not ground pet grade chicken (Plato)

My chicken jerky is JUST chicken and 0.2% spices. Plato uses brown rice as a filler.

When you look at the facts my jerky is a great value. Compare my jerky to other human grade jerky products sold for human consumption and you will see that my jerky is an OUTSTANDING value!

Thank you aimee

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lab man –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog, it’s not fun watching your best friend be in pain. I’m a little confused about your post though – you say she’s old and can’t stand on three legs, but that she doesn’t have hip dysplasia and isn’t in pain? I’m going to assume you made a typo and are looking for a joint supplement, otherwise I’m not really sure what you’re looking for.

For a senior dog experiencing arthritis I would recommend a supplement to maintain and rebuild the joints, a pain reliever and an anti-inflammatory.

I think Wysong has the most well-rounded joint supplements I’ve seen. Their “Joint Complex” has a blend of proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans that will help to maintain joints, cartilage, tendons and connective tissue. Their “Arthegic” has several ingredients designed to moderate inflammation and pain including: boswellia serata, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. I have used both supplements myself and also on occasion for my senior dog. Personally if one of my dogs was experiencing severe arthritis issues I would put it on these two supplements or find other supplements with similar ingredients. Natural anti-inflammatories are a much safer option than steroids and NSAIDS that vets frequently prescribe – imo. They can be purchased here: http://www.wysonghealth.net/nsf-health-supplements.php.

I feel it would also be a good idea to start to give your dog a fish oil capsule every day – the omega 3’s in fish oil have an anti-inflammatory effect and the fish oil is a rich source of dha which senior dogs have difficulty producing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah, you always want to use vitamin e. You can continue the same fish oil or switch it up, it’s not a huge deal if you don’t switch but I do like to rotate my dogs’ fats as well. I generally alternate between sardine oil, anchovy oil and salmon oil (I’m thinking about trying krill oil when I’m out of the fish oil I have now) and I also give cod liver oil every other day. I add a plant-based fatty acid daily too, three days a week I give coconut oil and the other three I give a flax, borage and evening primrose blend. Just mixing kelp and alfalfa would be fine – if you have to give any trace nutrient supplement I would say those two would be your best bet. You can order both in powder form from starwest botanicals. I make my own whole food supplement and while I do rotate out certain ingredients and rotate in new ingredients every month or so I always keep kelp and alfalfa in the supplement.

[weimlove]

Ok, great. For next time, would it be ok to still use vitamin e and fish oil, but instead of pet kelp just mix kelp and alfalfa?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yeah, definitely. Vitamin e, fish oil, Pet Kelp and the Flea Free all contain different ingredients with different purposed and would be safe to use together. Then once you’re done the bag of Pet Kelp pick out a new supplement next time.

[weimlove]

Ok, that seems easy! So to start out, do you think as long as I add the vitamin e and fish oil that the pet kelp is ok to use? Also, if I ordered the flea free product, would it be ok to use all of those ingredients together?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

I’ve seen the Pet Kelp supplements and they look like good supplements, however you definitely still need to add vitamin e. If you look at the nutrient analysis of the Pet Kelp product there is only 1.65 i.u. vitamin e per tablespoon. The AAFCO minimum requirement for vitamin e is 50 i.u. per kilogram of food and ideally your dog should be getting between 100 and 300 i.u. per day. I split 800 i.u. between my 3 dogs daily, so they all get about 266 i.u. each per day. The other thing to keep in mind is that you will be supplementing with fish oil (high levels of omega 3’s) and vitamin e is used to metabolize omega 3’s, so if you don’t supplement with high levels of vitamin e while supplementing with omega 3 rich fish oil the body’s stores of vitamin e will eventually be depleted and the dog will develop a vitamin e deficiency. If you decide to go with the Pet Kelp supplement I would recommend picking out 1 or 2 other whole food supplements with ingredients other than kelp (some that I like are Nature’s Logic All Food Fortifier, Welly Tails Might Phytonutrients, Animal Essentials Organic Green Alternative, Aunt Jeni’s Enhance, etc.) and rotating to a new supplement every month or so, this way your dog can get some variety. I don’t believe flax is bad for healthy dogs, I occasionally give my dogs flax oil. There are positives and negatives to almost every food out there which is why rotating is key – if you rotate your dog is a lot less likely to suffer the negative consequences of any one ingredient because he won’t be exposed for long periods of time.

[weimlove]

The other day, I found a product called PetKelp. It’s ingrdients are kelp, flax, and blueberries. It says it can be used for a supplement with food to ensure all needed vitamins and minerals. I know I will still need to add some source of fish oil, but do you think if I used the petkelp that I would need to still add vitamin E and alfalfa? Here is the website of the PetKelp wellness formula:
http://www.petkelp.com/antioxidant.html
If anyone could look at the ingredients and let me hear your opinions I would greatly appreciate it!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi oceandog –

That’s great that you still feed your dog a meat based diet and are willing to feed raw even though you’re vegan, it must be tough to do! 🙂 While I completely respect vegetarians and vegans, I see too many that try to force their lifestyle on their dogs and cats and I personally don’t think it’s fair…

Hare-Today.com and Mypetcarnivore.com sell pre-ground mixes with muscle meat, bone and organs in the correct proportions – so you wouldn’t need to chop up any meat or anything, it comes looking just like a pre-made raw (it just doesn’t have the supplements or veggies). They have several novel protein sources. Hare Today sells goat, goose, llama, pheasant and quail and My Pet Carnivore sells alpaca, goat, muskrat and rabbit. I’d just recommend adding the supplements I listed in my previous post – vitamin e (a capsule for humans a couple times a week), fish oil (for omega 3’s), kelp & alfalfa (trace nutrients) and probiotics (to help strengthen his gut). I’d leave out any other ingredients and just keep it basic during the elimination trial so when you start re-introducing ingredients you can know what the issue is. Only feed one protein source and don’t give any treats.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi oceandog –

When you fed raw did you use a novel protein source? Honestly, if he was experiencing these issues on a grain-free raw diet with a novel protein source, I would be inclined to think it’s more likely to be a compulsive behavior or something in the environment. Since raw is not an issue for you, rather than messing around with kibble I’d put him right on a raw diet. I’d personally go with a grind from hare-today.com or mypetcarnivore.com (the grinds contain muscle meat, organ meat, bone and nothing else) – pick one with a protein he’s never eaten before (they’ve got some pretty novel proteins like goat, duck, quail, rabbit, etc.). I’d feed him the grind with a vitamin e supplement, fish oil, kelp/alfalfa blend and a high quality multi-strain probiotic with nothing else for 2-3 months (no treats either!). After 2-3 months, assuming the issues have cleared, gradually start introducing new protein sources and other food items such as vegetables, fruits and eggs. Introduce each item one at a time and closely monitor his reaction. Keep a journal or something noting which foods cause reactions and which don’t. After you figure out which foods trigger his reaction you can start looking into pre-made raw foods (if you wish or you can keep making your own) that don’t contain any of his allergy triggers. If something like this doesn’t work, then I highly doubt his issues are food related.

[Devilbrad]

I’m pretty sure it at least has the fish oil. Thanks “mom”, I’ll look into those supplements.

[Hound Dog Mom]

That’s great that you found something she’ll eat! I bet it’s a lot healthier than dog food too. 🙂

If you find that the butcher doesn’t add any supplements (assuming the mix contains muscle meat, organ meat and bone) – I’d add a vitamin e supplement, fish oil for omega 3’s and a kelp/alfalfa blend.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

If you check out my menus for my dogs on the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus” you’ll see how I utilize a pre-mix for breakfast three mornings per week. Just follow the directions the pre-mix package and use boneless meat. You could omit veggies and all supplements, but I would still add fish oil as most pre-mixes don’t have adequate omega 3’s in the mix. In the evening I just feed some RMB’s and a little muscle meat (like hearts or gizzards) and occasionally some livers.Remember the 80-10-10 ratio doesn’t have to be exact at every meal, just over the course of a week or so you want the dog’s overall diet to roughly equal 80-10-10. It’s called balance over time.

[pugmomsandy]

Hi all!

I’m trying to figure out the omega 3-6-9 part of the emu oil and coconut oil and fish oil. Looks like emu is mostly 6 & 9 and little 3. And coconut oil is mostly 9 and some 6. So I should be giving fish oil with the emu and coconut oil to balance things out? Does that sound right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_oil

[Hound Dog Mom]

weimlove –

It’s great that Shadow loved the raw fish – but be careful about which types of fish you feed raw. Salmon, trout and steelhead that are caught in the Pacific can carry “salmon poisoning.” If you want to feed any of these types of fish from this region they should be frozen for a least 2 weeks to kill the parasite.

I make my own wholefood multivitamin/mineral. I order my ingredients from starwest-botanicals.com. I mix equal parts: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen, turmeric and garlic powder. You can do this if you want or if you want to make it simpler you can just mix equal parts kelp and alfalfa and that should be plenty. I’d give a dog the size of yours about 1 1/2 tsp. per day. You’ll need to supplement with vitamin e, for a dog the size of yours I’d give 200 i.u. daily or 400 i.u. every other day. Any vitamin e for humans will do, but I order mine from vitacost – I use the “Vitamin E & Tocotrienol Complex” because it has all 4 tocopherols and all 4 tocotrienols (most vitamin e supplements just contain alpha tocopherol). For fish oil I’m currently using Iceland Pure Sardine & Anchovy blend and Carlson cod liver oil, but any quality fish oils will do (I like buying in liquid form so I can mix it in with the food, but you could certainly get capsules if your dog will eat them). This is optional, but I do give my dogs coconut oil every other day and a plant-based omega 3-6-9 on the opposite days as the coconut oil.

I’d love to make you a menu plan, but because I don’t know exactly which cuts of meat will be available to you it’ll be more like a “template”. I’ll give some options and just use what you can get. One of my dogs – Gertie – is an active 70 lb. 2 year old as well so I’ll give you measurements based on what I would feed her. Obviously metabolisms vary from dog to dog so if you find this is too much or too little food feel free to reduce or increase the amounts, just keep everything proportionate. I’m also not sure how many times a day you feed, but I’ll assume you feed two meals a day.

Breakfast:
-5 mornings per week feed 12 oz. boneless red muscle meat (beef, lamb, buffalo, etc. – can use lean ground, chunks, heart, tripe, or some combination of these). 2 mornings per week feed 6 oz. liver and 6 oz. of another organ or any combination of other organs (kidney, spleen, lungs, pancreas, brain, etc.)
-1/2 C. cooked & pureed vegetables (whichever vegetables you want, can add fruit a couple times per week).
-Optional: 1/4 C. cottage cheese, kefir, plain yogurt or goat’s milk (can do this every day or a few days a week)
-1 1/2 tsp. whole food supplement (like a kelp-alfalfa blend or my homemade blend)
-1 tsp. fish oil (alternate between a fish body oil and cod liver oil)
-Optional: 1/2 tsp. coconut oil or a plant-based omega oil (like flax or evening primrose)
-Once or twice a week: 1 tsp ground pumpkin seeds, pecans, almonds or sunflower seeds
-3/4 tsp. ground egg shell (cheap source of calcium, leave eggshells out to dry then put them through a coffee grinder the next day) or 600-750 mg. of a calcium supplement of your choice (if your butcher sells meat/bone grinds for large animals like beef you could certainly use these and omit the calcium, but most butchers don’t have the equipment to grind heavy bones, so the calcium will have to be added separately)
-200 i.u. vitamin e (or 400 i.u. every other day)

*You can feed this same meal for breakfast daily, just rotate in new protein sources, switch up the extras (cottage cheese, yogurt, nuts and seeds, etc.) and feed a variety of vegetables and fruits.

Dinner (I often alternate between these two dinners for my dogs):
-Chicken back or leg quarter
-8 oz. Gizzards or hearts or boneless chicken (ground or chunks)
-Whole egg with shell
OR
-2 Turkey necks (about 6 oz. each)
-8 oz. Turkey hearts or gizzards or boneless turkey (ground or chunks)

Remember the more variety you can feed the better! Feed as many different protein sources as you can, using as many types of organs as possible, different vegetables and different fats. Each meal doesn’t have to supply every possible vitamin and mineral your dog needs, but over time the diet should balance. So the more variety you can feed the wider variety of nutrients your dog will get.

[weimlove]

Toxed2loss, I’m so sorry to hear that! After my Weimaraner received his booster shots, he broke out in small raised bumps all over his back and neck. After taking two rounds of anti biotics we went to a different vet for a second opinion. He was diagnosed with atopic dermatitis. I think this could have been caused by the vaccines. Thankfully after using herbal shampoos and adding extra fish oil to his food, the bumps went away and have been gone for almost a year now. I would love to not vaccinate anymore, but I am nervous about the risks. Since he has had his puppy shots and boosters do you think he is good for life?

[pugmomsandy]

Wouldn’t adding in some coconut oil or olive oil add some calories to the diet? Even a fatty fish – if there is such a thing, since the sensitive one is eating salmon kibble.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Blue Corgi –

No, the ingredients aren’t just made up. Knowing how to balance a homemade diet is VERY important. Feeding an unbalanced diet can result in some serious health issues if the unbalanced diet is fed long term. It’s wonderful that you’re interested in feeding your dogs a homemade diet – I STRONGLY feel that when done correctly a homemade diet is the healthiest thing for a dog.

Ingredients you use will differ slightly based on whether you’re planning on feeding raw or cooked. But with either diet the most important thing is getting the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorus needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1. To achieve this when feeding a raw diet with bone you will want to feed 80% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and 10% bone and for cooked diets or raw diets without bone you want to feed 90% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and add 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat and organ fed. Green tripe is a rare exception to this rule as green tripe naturally has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. You should feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry – don’t feed predominately one or the other as they have different types of fats. I give my dogs red meat in the a.m. and poultry in the p.m. As far as being “exact every time” – you don’t have to be exact every time but you do need to be exact over time. This means, if you decide you want to feed a meal that’s 20% organ meat at breakfast you can just feed a meal without organ meat at dinner – this would still balance out to your dog getting 10% organ meat in its diet. Balance over time.

You should feed around 80% meat – the other 20% can be vegetables, fruits, extras and supplements. All veggies should be cooked and pureed as dogs don’t produce the enzyme cellulase to breakdown the cellulose in raw veggies – cooking and pureeing in a sense “pre-digests” the veggies so the dog can derive some nutrients from them. Extras are optional and would include things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

For supplements I would recommend adding a form of animal-based omega 3’s (fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines), vitamin e and super-foods (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, etc.). I also give my dogs Carlson cod liver oil every other day for some extra vitamin d (cod liver oil should be limited though as it’s very high in vitamin a, I feed Carlson because it has the lowest vitamin a levels). You can add a multi-vitamin if you wish but if you’re feeding a wide variety of foods and adding the supplements I mentioned I don’t think it would be necessary. If you’re feeding a cooked diet you may want to consider supplementing with enzymes. If you don’t feed kefir, yogurt and/or green tripe on a regular basis you may also want to consider a probiotic supplement a few days of the week.

Lastly – keep this in mind because it’s critical when feeding a homemade diet – variety! Feed many different protein sources, many different types of organs, different fruits, veggies and extras and rotate different supplements into the mix every once in awhile. This will help to ensure that over time your dogs get all the nutrients they need.

Another option to make things easier – if you don’t feel comfortable making food from scratch yet – would be to use a premix. With a premix you generally just add meat and water – the mix contains all the fruits, veggies and supplements your dog needs. Some good premixes are The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Sojo’s, Urban Wolf, Birkdale Petmix and Dr. Harvey’s.

I would recommend checking out dogaware.com – there’s a lot of good information on homemade diets there. I would also recommend reading Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” If you check out the “menu” topic on the raw thread I’ve posted my dogs’ menu so you can get an idea of what a balanced diet should look like.

I hope that helps. Feel free to post any questions! Quite a few of us here feed homemade food and can help you out. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Alexandra –

Looks good to me! Because you’re feeding the Darwin’s for one meal every day I don’t think there’s any need for you to be overly concerned about supplements. All the hare today grinds have the appropriate ratio of muscle meat, organ meat and bone – so no need to worry about calcium to phosphorus ratios and organ meat amounts. And the fish oil and green supplement will be great for a little extra nutritional assurance.

[Alexandra]

Hi HDM,

That is a great menu! I am still feeling my way through this process, so here is what I have:

I feed the Darwin’s naturals for one meal, a different protein everyday. Dante eats a pound per meal and Booker eats 1/2 a pound per meal.

The other meal is a a change up between various hare today grinds, Llama, Goat, Duck, Turkey, Beef, and very occasionally Chicken. Booker can’t tolerate Chicken for two many meals in a row.

With the grinds, they get eggs twice a week, one tbs of coconut oil every other day. Fish oil on the opposite days.

I add minced garlic two times a week.

A tbs of organic Oikos yogurt three times a week.

I was adding Tumeric, but it seems to set off Dante, he gets inflamed from it.

I am going to order some of the Mercola Super Green for the whole food supplement.

How balanced am I?

Ordering chunks from my pet carnivore this weekend instead of the grinds.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi chynamae!

Are you interesting in homemade raw or homemade cooked?

I feed my three bloodhounds a homemade raw diet. It’s really pretty simple once you get the hang of it.

You want 80% muscle meat, 10% organ meat (5% liver, 5% other organs) and 10% bone – if you don’t want to include bone in the diet or are making a cooked diet you would use 90% muscle meat and 10% organ meat + 800-1,000 mg calcium per 1 lb. meat. You’ll want to keep the meat portion around 80% of the diet the other 20% will be vegetables (cooked and pureed) and supplements. Fruits and extras (i.e. cottage cheese, eggs, kefir, etc.) can be added if you want, but I’d keep it to under 10% of the meal.

For supplements you’ll need to add some trace nutrients. You can get a multi-vitamin/mineral supplement, but I think whole foods are preferable. I mix my own supplement for my dogs with equal parts, I rotate ingredients but the mix I’m currently using is: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, barley grass, bee pollen and garlic powder. You’ll need to add vitamin e as vitamin e is hard to supply in adequate quantities through food alone – for a small dog I’d recommend 50-100 i.u. every day or every other day, medium dogs 100-200 i.u. every day or every other day and 300-400 i.u. every day or every other day for large dogs. I’d also recommend adding a high quality animal-based omega 3 supplement – fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines.

To keep it even simpler there are pre-mixes available in which all you need to add is meat – THK’s preference, Sojo’s, Birkdale, Urban Wolf, Dr. Harvey’s, etc. Or you can purchase meat/organ/bone grinds (primal, bravo, hare today, my pet carnivore) in which all you need to add are supplements.

Be sure to feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry and feed as much variety as possible. My dogs get a ground red meat meal in the a.m. to which I add their supplements and poultry rmb’s in the evening.

A sample daily menu for my three would be:

a.m. -1 lb. Red Meat Grind (80% muscle meat, 10% organ meat, 10% Bone)
-1/2 c. Cooked & Pureed Veggies
-1/4 C. Kefir
-400 i.u. Vitamin E
-1/2 tbs. Sardine/Anchovy oil blend
-1/2 tbs. supplement

p.m. -Chicken Back (approx. 8 oz.)
-Chicken Foot (approx. 2 oz.)
-2 oz. Chicken Gizzards
-2 oz. Chicken Hearts
-2 oz. Chicken Livers
-Whole Egg

*When feeding RMBs you want to add about 8-12 oz. boneless meat for each pound of RMB.

Hope that helps! 🙂