[Robert B]

Honestly, I am not certain if it is ingredients, processing or bioavailability issue. You are certainly right that nearly every company has jumped on the legume/tuber inclusive bandwagon. I like foods that have been sold for many years in leu of having controlled feeding trials. I also like companies with some background in veterinary nutrition. I agree that market share has a huge effect on rate. For now, I am sticking with Annamaet, Best Breed and Dr. Tim’s. Thanks for the dialogue (appreciated).

[Robert B]

Thanks…I know nothing about this brand, its track record other than it is owned by Pets Global Inc who makes Zignature which has been implicated second to Acana. Many of their “original” recipes are legume rich. These new formulas almost feel like a tactic in response to the recent news.While the ingredients do look promising, I will stick with the three that I am rotating on now.

[Robert B]

Agreed….(and thank you).

I did miss alfalfa which is a legume. Since writing that post about a month ago, I have found some other foods that I have tried that omit these. This is the rotation that I am trying.

Annamaet Option
Ingredients > 1%:
Salmon Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Rolled Oats, Lamb Meal, Pearled Barley, Canola Oil, Menhaden Fish Meal, Menhaden Oil, Dried Tomato Pomace, Dried Apples, Natural Flavor, Dried Chicory Root, Flax Seed Meal, Lecithin, Marine Microalgae, Salt.

Dr. Gary’s Best Breed Lamb with Fruits and Vegetables
Ingredients > 1%
Lamb Meal, White Fish Meal, Brown Rice, Millet, Pearled Barley, Oatmeal, Canola Oil, Egg Product, Carrots, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Water Crest, Spinach, Natural Flavor, Lecithin, Calcium Carbonate, Kelp Meal, New Zealand Green Mussel, Cranberries, Blueberries, Salt.

Dr. Tim’s Kinesis
Ingredients > 1%
Chicken meal, brown rice, pearled barley, whole oat groats, chicken fat, dried plain beet pulp, dried egg product, rice bran, ocean herring meal, catfish meal, ground whole flaxseed meal, chicken liver meal, dried porcine plasma, salmon meal, menhaden fish oil, dried carrots, dried celery, dried beets, dried parsley, dried lettuce, dried watercress, dried spinach, salt.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Robert B.

[Robert B]

I own a 9-1/2 year old Australian Shepherd. I do not use “senior” dog food formulations mostly because many of them reduce their kcal/cup for older, more sedentary dogs by reducing the crude protein and fat content. I just use good all stage dog foods but consider a reduced kcal/day requirement. When my dog was younger an 1,100 kcal/day was required to maintain his weight. Today about 900 kcal/day is all that is required.

Regarding supplements, I do use two types because while the foods that I use are balanced, I am uncertain of the amounts actually remaining based on his daily weight based feeding in his kibble post processing even though some are listed as ingredients.

VetriScience Laboratories Glycoflex Everyday – My dog shows no symptoms yet of joint pain, but this is given as a joint pain preventative before joint degeneration occurs. It contains a combination of the active of green lipped mussels, glucosamine hci and N ,N-Dimethylglycine HCl.

VetriScience Laboratories Derma Strength – this is a skin an coat supplement with omega 3, 6 and 9. These are also systemic anti inflammatories.

Good Luck….

[Robert B]

Four companies who make legume (e.g. peas, lentils, chickpeas etc.) and tuber (e.g. potatoes, cassava root, sweet potatoes etc.) free canine formulations that are grain inclusive but avoid corn, wheat and soybeans are:

– Annamaet
– Dr. Gary’s Best Breed
– Dr. Tim’s
– Farmina N&D Ancestral Grains

You may want to research them a bit and add them to your “list” for consideration.

I am currently in the process of moving my 9-1/2 year old Australian Shepherd off Orijen and I am piloting a rotation among different foods by these companies. I have an older dog so what specific foods that I chose might not be right for your dog, so look at the different foods that each make carefully.

What I like is the companies all have some grounding in veterinary nutrition, all disclose ash content and looking at their ingredient lists > 1% by weight, they look pretty good among their peer companies. I am starting off with smaller 5lb. Bags to see how he does.

Good Luck

[Robert B]

A couple of smaller, high quality companies that make legume/tuber free – grain inclusive formulations to consider:

– Annamaet
– Best Breed
– Dr. Tim’s
– Farmina N&D Ancestral Grains

[Robert B]

Thanks for the comments. I am familiar with best practice switching protocols and we’ll go slowly. He rotates regularly within the Orijen line with no transition without event. With these switches we’ll transition gradually (1/4, 1/2, 3/4 across a week or so). We’ll try Farmina first, Fromm second, Nature’s Logic third.

[Robert B]

In light of the most recent update issued regarding FDA CVM’s Investigation between the relationship between diet and canine heart disease (DVM), I decided to review the 500+ case reports from the 5-year period studied. The published incidence rate including breeds with a genetic propensity for DCM is estimated to be between 0.1-0.2%.

We own a 9-1/2 year old, neutered Australian Shepherd who we have been feeding Orijen dry foods all of his life. When I look at Orijen (we feed Adult, Regional Red & Senior) I see lugumes and pulses, but well down the ingredient list by weight. That said, there a dozen cases of DCM associated with the brand. I do realize that the incidence rate is influenced on how widely a food is selling.

There were 10 case reports of Australian Shepherds (the summary shows n=13 but I could not find them) and DCM out of the 515 canine cases reported (or about 2%). The observed rate out of the dog’s within the cases is > 10x the general population rate for ALL dogs. This struck me as not happening by “chance”.

I reviewed the listed dog foods fed to the Australian Shepherds and then looked into what their current top 10 ingredients for legumes, pulses and tubers:

Case 1) Nature’s Recipe Easy to Digest Fish meal and Potato recipe dry dog food: Potatoes
Case 2) Zignature Kangaroo and Lentil: Peas, Chickpeas, Pear Flower, Red Lentils, Green Lentils
Case 3) Fromm Pork and Pea: Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flower, Pea Protein, Sweet Potatoes
Case 4) Blue Buffalo wilderness natures evolutionary diet with chicken and lifsource bits: Pea Protein, Peas, Pea Starch, Pea Fiber, Potatoes
Case 5a) Farmina N&D Pumpkin Formula Medium and Maxi: Pea Starch, Dried Pumpkin, Pea Fiber
Case 5b) Kirkland Natures Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato: Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Potatoes, Pea Protein, Potato Fibre
Case 5c) Kirkland Organic Chicken and Pea: Organic Peas, Organic Lentils, Organic Garbanzo Beans, Organic Sweet Potatoes, Organic Potatoes
Cases 6 & 7) Pine Forest Canine Recipe with Venison & Legumes – Taste of the Wild Pet Food: Garbanzo Beans, Peas, Lentils, Pea Protein, Pea Flour, Fava Beans
Case 8) Earthborn grain free (specific variety not declared): Peas, Pea Protein, Pea Starch, Chickpeas
Case 9) Hill’s Ideal Balance Grain Free Chicken and Potato: Potatoes, Yellow Peas, Pea Protein, Potato Starch
Case 10) Acana (all flavors except Chicken or Lamb): Whole Red Lentils, Whole Pinto Beans, Whole Green Peas, Whole Green Lentils, Whole Chickpeas

I see a consistent use of legumes or tubers as ingredients among these foods (including Hills!). I work in R&D and while I agree the root cause may not be fully understood and the rates shown in the pareto chart are biased by how widely used a food is I can see why the Agency sent out the notification. Given the > 90% rate in the reported cases of grain free, legume formulated foods, I have made the decision to move our Australian Shepherd to a new dry food. So I have been trying to identify high quality grain inclusive dry foods to replace Orijen. So far I have identified:

Farmina:
N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Mini & Medium
N&D Ancestral Grains Grains Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Medium & Maxi

Fromm:
Adult Gold
Reduced Activity Senior Gold

Nature’s Logic:
Canine Beef Meal Feasts
Canine Chicken Meal Feasts
Canine Lamb Meal Feasts
Canine Turkey Meal Feasts

NutriSource
Performance
Adult
Lamb Meal & Rice
Beef & Rice

We will begin to titrate him off Orijen onto some of these foods. We will first buy small bags to see how he a) likes them and b) his stool quality and general energy/health.

Do any of you have any experience with these foods or have any other suggestions for me to consider?

[Robert B]

In light of the most recent update issued regarding FDA CVM’s Investigation between the relationship between diet and canine heart disease (DVM), I decided to review the 500+ case reports from the 5-year period studied. The published incidence rate including breeds with a genetic propensity for DCM is estimated to be between 0.1-0.2%.

We own a 9-1/2 year old, neutered Australian Shepherd who we have been feeding Orijen dry foods all of his life. When I look at Orijen (we feed Adult, Regional Red & Senior) I see lugumes and pulses, but well down the ingredient list by weight. That said, there a dozen cases of DCM associated with the brand. I do realize that the incidence rate is influenced on how widely a food is selling.

There were 10 case reports of Australian Shepherds (the summary shows n=13 but I could not find them) and DCM out of the 515 canine cases reported (or about 2%). The observed rate out of the dog’s within the cases is > 10x the general population rate for ALL dogs. This struck me as not happening by “chance”.
I reviewed the listed dog foods fed to the Australian Shepherds and then looked into what their current top 10 ingredients for legumes, pulses and tubers:

Case 1) Nature’s Recipe Easy to Digest Fish meal and Potato recipe dry dog food: Potatoes
Case 2) Zignature Kangaroo and Lentil: Peas, Chickpeas, Pear Flower, Red Lentils, Green Lentils
Case 3) Fromm Pork and Pea: Peas, Chickpeas, Pea Flower, Pea Protein, Sweet Potatoes
Case 4) Blue Buffalo wilderness natures evolutionary diet with chicken and lifsource bits: Pea Protein, Peas, Pea Starch, Pea Fiber, Potatoes
Case 5a) Farmina N&D Pumpkin Formula Medium and Maxi: Pea Starch, Dried Pumpkin, Pea Fiber
Case 5b) Kirkland Natures Domain Salmon and Sweet Potato: Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Potatoes, Pea Protein, Potato Fibre
Case 5c) Kirkland Organic Chicken and Pea: Organic Peas, Organic Lentils, Organic Garbanzo Beans, Organic Sweet Potatoes, Organic Potatoes
Cases 6 & 7) Pine Forest Canine Recipe with Venison & Legumes – Taste of the Wild Pet Food: Garbanzo Beans, Peas, Lentils, Pea Protein, Pea Flour, Fava Beans
Case 8) Earthborn grain free (specific variety not declared): Peas, Pea Protein, Pea Starch, Chickpeas
Case 9) Hill’s Ideal Balance Grain Free Chicken and Potato: Potatoes, Yellow Peas, Pea Protein, Potato Starch
Case 10) Acana (all flavors except Chicken or Lamb): Whole Red Lentils, Whole Pinto Beans, Whole Green Peas, Whole Green Lentils, Whole Chickpeas

I see a consistent use of legumes or tubers as ingredients among these foods (including Hills!). I work in R&D and while I agree the root cause may not be fully understood and the rates shown in the pareto chart are biased by how widely used a food is I can see why the Agency sent out the notification. Given the > 90% rate in the reported cases of grain free, legume formulated foods, I have made the decision to move our Australian Shepherd to a new dry food.

So I have been trying to identify high quality grain inclusive dry foods to replace Orijen. So far I have identified:

Farmina:
N&D Ancestral Grain Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Mini & Medium
N&D Ancestral Grains Grains Chicken & Pomegranate Senior Medium & Maxi

Fromm:
Adult Gold
Reduced Activity Senior Gold

Nature’s Logic:
Canine Beef Meal Feasts
Canine Chicken Meal Feasts
Canine Lamb Meal Feasts
Canine Turkey Meal Feasts

NutriSource:
Performance
Adult
Lamb Meal & Rice
Beef & Rice

We will begin to titrate him off Orijen onto some of these foods. We will first buy small bags to see how he a) likes them and b) his stool quality and general energy/health before settling on a new rotation of foods.

Do any of you have any experience with these foods or have any other suggestions for me to consider?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by Robert B.

[Author]

Posts