[aimee]

It has been 2 years since a class action was filed that alleges Earth Animal’s No Hide contain rawhide; the case is still pending.

Recap: On July 27,2017 Susan Thixton raised the question ” Is No-Hide Dog Treat Actually Hide?” on Truth About Pet Food. Also in 2017, the FDA apparently tried to answer the same question, but it appears they could not. Results on sample number 1020257, “4 inch Earth Animal No-Hide Chicken Chews” “were “inconclusive as to whether or not product contains rawhide.”.

In 2018, The Dept of Ag., Penn. investigated. They interpreted the test they had done at Penn State as “inconclusive.” They asked Dr Brooks “to determine whether or not animal hide (skin and related structures) is present.” Dr Brooks was not even able to identify a labeled rawhide as skin saying, “they are no longer identifiable by this method.” I think one reason the rawhide sample could not be identified as skin is because the structures needed to identify skin, like hair and oil glands, are in the layer of the skin that is removed at the tannery. Interestingly though, Dr. Brooks starts his report with “All slides….” indicating that both the rawhide samples and the No Hide samples appeared similar enough to each other that he did not find it necessary to describe them separately. This I feel was a very important finding because a chew made from skin, I would think, should look very different from one made with plants.

“Microscopic examination of dog chews.” was published on June 20, 2020. Susan Thixton made a post about the study. From the abstract “Two products labeled as rawhide free appeared similar to the dermis [ a skin layer].” In the comment section, Earth Animal appears to claim that one of those two products was No Hide. They also report in reference to one of the authors ” She has already been served a Cease-and-Desist Letter by Earth Animal threatening to institute legal proceedings. ” Apparently, in a Sept.26, 2018, e-mail there was mention of a plan to test and submit for publication a study looking at various types of dog chews. That e-mail apparently reached Earth Animal, and the author of the email received a letter dated Oct. 5th, 2018, to “serve as a notice of potential litigation” making it look to me that Earth Animal did not want the researcher to investigate dog chews.

The lawsuit was filed Oct 12, 2020. A quote from the lawsuit reads, “A recent study was published….. According to Defendants, one of their products, a No-Hide chew, was included in the study and was found to contain rawhide….”. In my opinion, that study triggered the filing of the class action because :1. The apparent statement made by Earth Animal . 2.The study is a reference for how chews labeled rawhide and rawhide-free look under a microscope. Broadly speaking, in the study, the chews tested that had a starch ingredient like flour in them, had a blue background, while labeled rawhide samples stained red (H & E stain). Penn State lab reported Earth Animal No Hide stained red with H & E stain.

On Dec.23,2020 Earth Animal reported. “Ms. Beveridge has agreed to put the lawsuit on hold for 4 months, to give the parties the opportunity to develop a mutually-agreeable protocol which will appoint one or more credentialed experts to conduct a site visit.” To the best of my knowledge a site visit did not occur during the 4-month period, and to the best of my knowledge the lawsuit resumed. I have not found any other formal updates issued by Earth Animal.

Two years after filing, the case is reported as pending. My understanding is that judges can dismiss cases for lack of merit. Initially, Judge Janet Bond Arterton was reported as judge and now Judge Omar A Williams is listed. It appears to me that 2 different judges have overseen this case and neither has dismissed it.

It may be years before the legal case is resolved, but until then pet parents can decide for themselves what this product is made from. Reading all the original test results, documents, and e-mails on Truth about Pet Food.is a good place to start if you desire more information about this product. Also, you can test the product yourself. Iodine changes color if starch is present. The No Hide chew roll’s main ingredient appears to be rice flour, a starch containing ingredient. Open a No Hide treat. Put iodine on an inner piece that is free of any of the flavor coating. Also put iodine on the flavor coating, then compare your results.

.

[aimee]

Hi Crazy4cats,

I think this again can relate to the fact that there is no legal definition for the word “rawhide” as it applies to pet food ingredients and chews. In a very broad sense, rawhide means untanned skin and pig skin would fall into that definition.

Merriam Webster defines rawhide as untanned cattle skin, and while I’ve seen in common use the term rawhide applied to hides of elk, deer, bison and cattle, I have not seen it applied to describe pig skin.

For me personally, I wouldn’t “ding” the manufacturer for the rawhide free claim especially because they disclose that the product is skin.

Is pig skin “safer”? IMO no, because I think one of biggest concerns with skin-based chews is attempting to swallow a large piece leading to choking or swallowing a large piece and having it stuck in the esophagus. I do not see a difference between the two in that regard.

Since it will be 2 years since the filing of the lawsuit. I plan on posting an update on what
I know. and don’t know.

[aimee]

My understanding is that black spots can occur in canned foods due to a reaction during the canning process with minerals in the diet. They should not affect quality. However, I’d report the lot number to the manufacturer so they can double check.

[aimee]

Hi Newzell Z,

Good for you for recognizing and addressing your dog’s weight. Your concern that he is not getting a balanced diet is spot on based on the ingredients you shared.

Using a commercial diet formulated for weight loss or a homemade diet for weight loss formulated by a veterinary nutritionist would be the way to go.

Determine the number of calories he is currently eating. Cut back by 20% (assuming no health concerns) and weigh the food for each meal to ensure proper calorie intake. Weigh him every week to monitor weight loss. If he isn’t losing, you’ll need to cut back calories more. If you get to a point where you are feeding less than the recommended serving consult your vet. Consider using a weight loss food formulated by Purina, Royal Canin, Iams/Eukaneuba or Hill’s Pet nutrition.

[aimee]

Hi Michelle,

The reason I researched carrageenan was because my own dog had suspected IBD, was on a novel protein diet and the canned versions contained that ingredient. At first I was concerned because of all the negative “press” given to carrageenan, however after reading the scientific literature I was comfortable with the ingredient.

Of course any animal can have an individual intolerance to any ingredient but it sounds like your dog is doing well on her current diet.

[aimee]

Hi Shawshank S,

I’d agree with Crazy4cats.
I home cook part of my dog’s diet and I use the balanceit supplement.

I calculated out the following for you. Making some assumptions.

NRC recommends .13 grams calcium /body weight in kg to the .75 power If your Golden weighs 70 lbs that calculates out to about 1740 mg calcium/day.

Your major calcium containing ingredients are
200 mls yogurt provide about 350 mg calcium
2 cups cooked spinach about 500 mg calcium

So using my assumptions you are providing about 1/2 of the NRC recommended daily amount of calcium and close to the NRC min amount of calcium, which my understanding assumes a high level of absorption, something that may not be achieved using spinach. Spinach is high in oxalates, which binds calcium. Cooking spinach does decrease oxalate, but personally I wouldn’t feel comfortable relying on spinach to meet my dog’s calcium needs because of variable calcium absorption and the high oxalate content.

Looking at Vit D, NRC recommended amount for a 70 lb dog is ~240 IU/day, your major source is egg yolk. 2 yolks are~ 80 IU If you use vit D fortified yogurt that may be making up the difference depending on level of fortification.

I think you need a nutritionist to evaluate this diet for you.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

This is perfectly understandable “What my attitude probably boils down to is my lack of faith in the good faith of large companies” There is no perfect pet food company, all fall short in my eyes in some aspect. But I will say that after having talked to numerous pet food manufacturers I tend to find the most egregious problems and lack of basic nutritional understnding in smaller companies. The larger companies don’t have the “pretty ” ingredient labels but I’ve come to appreciate what i see as a vested interest in nutrition, something I think is lacking in many companies.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

Fair enough, you’d like a more detailed answer. What led me to say that you have been misled by marketing information is because you said you’d learned it was an empty filler. From a nutritional standpoint a filler is something without nutritional benefit. Air, water and fiber would meet that definition, yet even fiber can have benefits for the colon. Corn supplies essential amino acids , essential fatty acids, vitamins, antioxidants, and energy and therefore it does not meet the definition of “filler”

I would respectively disagree with DFA that corn is only of marginal nutritional value. Certainly it is not a complete food and its primary value is being a source of energy but it has attributes that I believe elevate it from marginal status.

A place to dive deeper is to utilize Pub Med to read the original research on the use of corn as an ingredient in pet foods. This is a decent review article https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34078195/ but the true value is in mining the references and reading those supporting papers.

It has been years since I went through and read all the research on corn. As I recall, one of the unique features of corn is the amino acid profile that is relatively high in the essential sulfur containing amino acids. This may be important when formulating a controlled protein food yet need to meet essential amino acids.

In regards to modifying a diet for kidney patients, controlling phosphorus is key Protein is a source of phosphorus and my understanding is that when using plant based protein the phosphorus is less absorbable. This could be desired for a kidney patient.

For me corn is neither “good” or “bad” it just is… and like anything has pros and cons.

I’d also think that other factors weigh in as to what ingredients are chosen as a means to supply nutrients.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

If you learned that corn was an empty filler then I’m afraid you have been misled, which is understandable, given the marketing tactics commonly deployed in regards to selling pet foods.

Perhaps the shortest answer to the question is to say that veterinary nutritionists, when formulating foods, determine which nutrients they want to deliver and which need to be controlled and then choose ingredients and how they work together to accomplish that goal. The ingredients are simply a mechanism to achieve a certain nutrient profile.

[aimee]

Hi Claire,

My understanding is that struvite crystals are quite common and a normal finding in dogs which do not require any specific treatment. They are a concern there is a history of sterile struvite stone formation. which is very rare. Most struvite stones form secondary to infection and my understanding is diet will not prevent urinary infection or stone formation secondary to infection.

“Struvite crystalluria occurs in greater than 50% of healthy dogs, including animals without urinary tract infections”https://www.dvm360.com/view/stones-vs-crystals-management-and-prevention-proceedings

Since leaking urine at night is a new sign consider checking for infection or presence of other contributing factors or causes.

I would consider SO to be a high quality nutritious food

[aimee]

Hi Linda,

I took a look at Dr Harvey’s and I didn’t find any nutritional information. I found that concerning.

When using Dr Harvey’s Canine Health what is the composition of the final diet you are currently making in regards to grams protein /1000 kcals, the amino acid profile, grams fat/1000 kcals the omega 3 content and grams phosphorus/1000 kcals.

I’ve used balanceit with good success and appreciate all the detailed nutritional information given there, which is so important to have when feeding a dog with multiple medical conditions.

[aimee]

Hi Crazy4 Cats,

The best you can say is you have to look at the individual foods nutrient profiles and the resulting mix. There is so much “marketing spin” and no consistency across brands in regards to the profiles used for a “senior”food or a “weight loss” food.

What a senior needs is individual to that particular dog or cat. What a dog needs for weight loss is individual to that dog. I tend to not look at what the foods are being marketed as being, and instead look at the product’s nutrient profiles and match to the needs of my dog.

[aimee]

Hi J B,

This is an interesting question and I’ll give you my thoughts. When two complete and balanced foods are mixed the resulting mixture is complete and balanced. However, feeding for weight loss is a special situation, a complete and balanced food, when fed to achieve weight loss, may not meet nutrient needs.

This is because nutrient levels in foods are tied to an assumed average intake. Because a caloric deficit is needed to achieve weight loss, weight loss foods need to be fortified with nutrients so that when feeding fewer calories a dogs nutrient needs are met.

In this situation you are asking if feeding a presumed fortified with a non fortified food will meet the dogs needs. To answer that you’d need to know the nutrient levels of each food to calculate the levels in the resulting mix, factor in the amount being fed and then compare to needs.

To add to the puzzle is that the nutrients in the vitality formula to support senior health will be being fed at a lower level which may or may not affect outcome.

You said your dog weighs 83 lbs. How much of the vitality formula is she eating a day? What other calorie sources are consumed? Treats, Supplements, dental chews etc. In my experience, Hill’s feeding guidelines are well calculated and so if currently she is consuming an amount at the higher end of the feeding recommendations I’d simply cut back to the lower range and trim other sources. If however she is already consuming at the lower end of the Vitality feeding range, and you would need to feed less than the recommended amount of that diet to achieve weight loss I’d consider switching completely over to a weight loss formula

Finally, Hill’s has a vet support service and you can ask your vet to contact Hill’s, discuss your particular dog, and get customized feeding advice.

[aimee]

Hi Yvonne,

So sorry to hear that the issues with Wanda are not fully resolved.

Hi M,

There isn’t a private message feature on Dog Food Advisor. I usually check the comments section and forums on a regular basis so you can catch me here!

[aimee]

Hi Amina,

I’m glad you found the information helpful. It is hard to believe that it has been a little over 3 1/2 years since my initial post when I, like you, tried to recreate a No Hide using labeled ingredients. It is interesting to note that when the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture sent Salmon No Hide for testing the lab reported a protein content of 88.49%. This suggests that the water, carbohydrate, fat, and ash taken together would be ~ 11.5%. Starch test results were reported as 0.5% . Truly baffling to me when I consider the reported ingredients. It appears to me that there is an unreported nitrogen source in this product. ( In lab analysis protein is estimated based on nitrogen testing) and I have no explanation for the very low reported starch content in a product which lists brown rice flour as the second ingredient.

There is a lot of information since posted about this product and a current class action suit that alleges the product contains rawhide.

I don’t know that there are any truly “safe” chews. There is risk and benefit in everything. If looking for a consumable dental chew I’d suggest you choose from the Veterinary Oral Health Council accepted products for dogs list. Personally, I look for a product that was found effective against plaque and I appreciate that Greenies are formulated to meet AAFCO maintenance making it easy to incorporate them into a feeding plan without concern of unbalancing the diet. Keep in mind that just as we need to see a dentist regularly despite daily brushing and flossing, your dog also needs to be treated by a veterinarian on a regular basis.

[aimee]

You’re welcome!

[aimee]

Hi Sue,

I responded on the other thread you posted.

[aimee]

Hi Sue H,

It is not the acid (pH) that is causing the lawn burn.. it is the nitrogen which comes from protein in her food. The effect you are seeing is similar to what happens when you dump too much lawn fertilizer in one location.

The solution is to generously water the areas where she has eliminated. If you fertilize your lawn often this contributes to the problem. Consider using a diet that meets but does not greatly exceed her protein requirements so that less ends up on the lawn. Consider adding water to her diet to try to increase her comsumption and dilute out her urine. Please consult your veterinarian for advice.

[aimee]

Hi Yvonne,

I’d encourage you to read all the original documents that are posted on TAPF I found them very interesting.

[aimee]

You are welcome.

[aimee]

Hi Yvonne,

So sorry you and your dog are going through this. I hope she is feeling better.

[aimee]

Hi Yvonne,

So sorry to learn of your experience. Hope your dog is felling better. Always report any suspected adverse events to your state feed control official and to the FDA.

[aimee]

Hi Crazycats,

Here is a link to an article about the case https://www.petfoodprocessing.net/articles/14378-champion-petfoods-resolves-two-mislabeling-lawsuits

As I remember it Champion marketed their trout as “wild caught” and used imagery of a fisherman in waders, standing in a stream and holing a pole. Apparently the fish in their products was/is farm raised.

As I recall they marketed their chicken as “Free Run” accompanied by images of chickens freely foraging in what I’d call spacious scenic wide open field. Apparently the chickens are raised indoors without any access to outdoors.

Apparently Champion said it was “an inadvertent oversight” that they claimed the trout was wild caught and will “provide better clarity” on the term “free run”

[aimee]

Hi Kathy,

It is more common to have environmental allergies the food allergies . As i understand it ,characteristics of food allergy are signs starting under 1 year of age, Itchy butts and ears, Skin signs combined with GI signs like more than 2 stools a day and “sensitive stomach” make food allergy be more likely than environmental. Itchy paws alone may more commonly be environmental signs. Some dogs have both.

Parasite or bacterial or yeast infections and contact reactions can also cause itching. Best place to start is at your veterinarian. There are no accurate tests for food allergy. Very specific diet trials are used to diagnose. Additionally, testing for environmental allergies is done to select which allergens to include for desensitization, not to diagnose allergy.

I believe that there are foods in the Pro Plan line formulated for skin support.

[aimee]

Charles M,

Hi Charles, I’m assuming you are questioning feeding a high red meat content based on concerns in people of higher rates of certain types of cancer associated with red meat consumption. There is very little data on this question in dogs . There is a study that found an association with red meet consumption and mammary cancer in dogs. I think it was a retrospective study and I don’t know how robust the data or conclusions.

That said, I’ve been disappointed with answers that Champion Petfoods has given to me when I’ve inquired about their foods and the recent class action resolution in which apparently their fish advertised as “wild caught” was farmed fish and the chicken advertised as “free run” apparently was conventionally raised poultry makes me question the company honesty and integrity. When i combine that with the FDA apparent association with foods produced by Champion Petfoods and DCM it isn’t a company whose product I’d feel comfortable feeding.

[aimee]

Hi Lacy,

I’m not sure where it it you saw corn listed as a high glyvemic food, I see it routinely listed as moderate. Additionally high glycemic foods have not been identified as a cause of diabetes in people( see ADA) and they are not a cause of diabetes in canines. Diabetes is not caused by diet.

Finally, dogs are biologically considered omnivores because of their metabolic pathways align with that classification such as ability to convert B carotene to Vit A which is something the cat, classified as a carnivore, is unable to do.

As Crazy4cas posted corn can be a well utilized component of the canine diet .

[aimee]

Hi Crazy4cats,

I posted back a few days ago but it never showed up here , so at some point this may be a duplicate post. Interestingly when I tried to search for more info on the class action suit I found a different suit filed by Sage Fulfillment LLC involving Earth Animal Ventures

[aimee]

Hi Aastra,

The only way to diagnose food hypersensitivity is by a food elimination trial. I think Ultamino is a good choice to use for a elimination trial. You can read about food allergies and doing food trial here https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&id=4951526

Be aware of anything that crosses your dog’s lips. Sources of food triggers that you my not think of could include capsules from medications, sources from scavenging outside, stool consumption from cat boxes or other dogs in the house etc.

Doing an elimination trial correctly is challenging. Good Luck!

[aimee]

Hi Crazy4cats,

My understanding, at least in the state I reside in, is that chews do not have to comply with AAFCO labeling unless they also make a claim that could be considered a nutritional claim. This could be something like “easily digestible” or “source of protein”. I think it is up to the feed control official to decide if the product is making a nutritional claim. This could be why, in my opinion, there is no AAFCO definition for the term”rawhide”. I think, that without a definition, this opens the door for manufacturers to market their hide based products as “rawhide free” when making a nutritional claim

This isn’t to say though that a chew, such as rawhide, because it doesn’t have to meet AAFCO labeling is not regulated. Rawhide is considered “food” by the FDA and so it has to comply with the FD&C act of 1938 and can come under regulation if adulterated.

It seems to me that many are confused on this point, resulting in people reporting/saying that rawhide is not regulated and since it is not regulated ,it may be a source of significant levels of toxins. In actuality the risk is likely no different than other sources of pet food.. This misunderstanding, in my opinion, is then exploited and used to market “rawhide alternatives” , which in some cases appear to be made of the same tissue as rawhide, yet are being sold at a much higher price point . I think consumers are willing to pay this higher price because they think this product is “safe” and chews labeled as rawhide are not safe.

[aimee]

Hi Summer G,
Do you have a facebook accnt ? I may have just sent a message to you. : )

[aimee]

Hi Katherine,
The Fresh Pet rolls give serving amounts in pounds but the bagged meals list it in cups.

What is your dogs body condition score and weight? As a general guideline on a 9 point body condition scale each point is ~ 10 % weight. So, for example, if the dog body condition score is 6 and weight is 18 pounds the ideal weight would be ~ 18 – 1.8 + 16.2 lbs

Hope that helps.

[aimee]

Hi Sheila,
I agree … thanks to Dr Mike for creating this forum in which we can all help and learn from each other.

[aimee]

Hi crazy4xats and Sheila,

Thanks for the kind works. It makes me happy to know that others find my posts useful.

[aimee]

Hi Sheila,

Hmmm….I was afraid of that..it appears the company just gave you a number to make the kcals/kg and Kcals/cup to match vs having accurate information.

Personally, it makes me nervous when a company’s information doesn’t “add” up. You could try recontacting them and see what they say.

[aimee]

Hi Sheila,

Hopefully they will fix the website. To confirm what you were told is correct weight out 87 grams of food and then see if it is a level cup . If you don’t have a kitchen scale consider investing in one . Using a cup can be highly inaccurate and accuracy is needed when on a weight loss program.

If you feed a cup it will be more calories then you were feeding 1 cup Fresh Pet..

[aimee]

Hi WonderousPup,

I come from a point of we don’t know what we don’t know. and since I try to eat all the colors of the rainbow I share. About the only “patch”, if you want to cal it that, is that I’ll add fish oil for omega 3.

[aimee]

Hi WondrousPups,

When I add a significant amount of fresh food to the kibble base I’ll follow a recipe to make a complete and balanced diet. Based on reviewing posted N.A.’s I’d disagree that commercial foods have 200-600% of essential vitamins and minerals. In fact I’ve seen many posted N.A. that don’t even meet AAFCO minimums! The companies themselves seem unaware of this perhaps becausee they do not have nutritionists on staff. Additionally, if a particular dog has low energy requirements, even foods that meet AAFCO nutrient tables may not provide adequate nutrition.

[aimee]

Hi Sheila,

I took a look at the website so I could calculate out how much to feed if you wanted to feed 80% of her current intake. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear that the information on the website is correct. For Dr Tim’s Metabolic it reports that there are 3027 kcals/kg and 268 kcals/cup (116 grams) Something is off … 3027 kcals/kg = 3.027 kcals /grams if there are 116 grams in a cup each cup would have 116 x 3.027 =351kcals not the reported 268.

You should call the manufacturer and see if you can get the correct information.

[aimee]

If you have been feeding one cup a day and she is 20 lbs and needs to lose weight then you’d have to feed less food. In general, a calculated value can be off by 50% meaning some dogs would only need 1/2 cup. of fresh pet to lose weight. But at these levels the dog may feel hungry and because the food isn’t formulated for weight loss she may not get all the nutrient needs met.

If she isn’t getting treats, table tid bits, or dental chews, to cut 80% of calories you’d be feeding 3.75 ounces of Fresh Pet a day. this may not meet her nutrient needs. To me It looks like you’d need to change foods for a safe weight loss program for her.

[aimee]

If you have been feeding one cup a day and she is 20 lbs and needs to lose weight then you’d have to feed less food. In general, a calculated value can be off by 50% meaning some dogs would only need 1/2 cup. of fresh pet to lose weight. But at these levels the dog may feel hungry and because the food isn’t formulated for weight loss she may not get all the nutrient needs met.

If she isn’t getting treats, table tid bits, or dental chews, to cut 80% of calories you’d be feeding 3.75 ounces of Fresh Pet a day. this may not meet her nutrient needs. To me It looks like you’d need to change foods for a safe weight loss program for her.

[aimee]

Ok, so she has been on Fresh Pet for awhile and weighs 20 lbs but was 14 lbs when you adopted her as an adult 2 years ago. Unless she was significant;y underweight when adopted she is carrying significant;y more weight then desired and it is good that you are working to change that..

How many cups or ounces of Fresh Pet have you been feeding up to this point when you used the dog food calculator to adjust her intake

[aimee]

Fresh pet does have proportionately some lower fat lines but it look like in general the line isn’t formulated for weight loss.
Has she always been on fresh pet or is this a new food for her

[aimee]

Thanks for the information. The food has 840kcals/lb or 1848/kg
840 kcals/lb divided by 16 ouces/lb = 52 kcals/ounce.
246 kcals/cup divided by 52 kcals/ounce = 4.7 ounces/cup

1.14 cups X 4.7 ounces = 5.4 ounces

This food takes 29.3% calories from protein , 51% from fat and 20 % from carbohydrates

When feeding high fat foods the volume to feed will be smaller and some dogs may not find this filling enough for them.
What is her current weight?

[aimee]

Sheila,

I’d would need to know the exact formula you are feeding and how many calories you want to feed to answer that question

[aimee]

Hi Guy,

It seems that you have been given recommendations by the medical professionals that understand your situation.
Considering that raw diets in dogs has been associated with some fairly serious heath issues in people I understand why your vet is concerned. These types of events are very infrequent but may be of higher frequency in immunosurpresed individuals.

Consider not only food handling hygiene but also bacterial contamination in the environment. For example, a dog finishes the meal and then wipes their face on the couch. Bacterial transfer can occur. Some time ago I read a paper in which the authors cultured out the contents of vacuum cleaner bags. In raw fed home 10% of the time they grew out Salmonella. Salmonella was also found in vacuum cleaner bags in kibble fed dogs but at a lower occurrence. The numbers tested were too small to do a statistical analysis but it severs as a eye opener as to the extent of bacterial transfer.

My BIL didn’t make it to organ transfer but was going through the process. The dog’s base diet was discussed and dog chews as well….no animal parts like bully sticks, pig ears etc. Everything offered to the dog had to have gone through a “kill” step and then be sealed from potential contamination.

[aimee]

Hi Sheila,

0.14 cups is a tad more than 1/8 cup.

If you are striving for weight loss an alternative method to determine amount to feed is to take an honest assessment of everything that crosses her lips over the course of a day, add up all the calories and then decrease by about 20 %. The best way to measure food esp for weight loss is to use a kitchen scale and weigh the food

Individuals vary so much on caloric needs so a calculator can be used as a starting point but typically an individuals needs may vary by 50% from what ever amount is generated.

If your intent is for your dog to lose weight a weight loss food would likely be more appropriate. Does fresh pet have a weight loss food?

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,
Thanks for the kind words.
It sounds like you are doing all you can then. Compare kcals/kg on dry matter basis if moisture contents are different between the products. Fiber will affect that as well and the fiber levels in the G.A. only measure a portion of the true fiber amount.

The calculator is the best tool, BUT as they say garbage in garbage out…and the numbers you are using from a G.A. may have so much variation from the actual that unless you can get a typical analysis from the manufacturer the result you end up with may be a far cry from the actual caloric distribution.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

If you asking if the star ratings can be relied upon to pick a lower fat product I’d have to say they can be used as a starting point but always do your own evaluation. This is no fault of the site it is factor of how manufacturers report their numbers AND the formula may have been changed since the last review or information may not transfer across line like you think it would

Looking at Primal’s website today, they report their Turkey and Sardine raw frozen recipe to have a G.A. of min protein of 16% and min fat as 17% for both the pronto and and patties forms. But the nugget analysis reports min 16% protein and min 7 % fat. Which is it?? I think the 17 may be a typo because when using 17 the GA is over 100%. but I don’t know for sure where the error is. Is it a low fat diet or a high fat diet? I cant tell from the website. Maybe the product label would have the correct information I do find it disconcerting that the manufacturer hasn’t noted and corrected, a red flag for me.

Looking at the ratio of reported protein and fat give you an idea I like to see at least twice a much protein as fat for my dogs and closer to three Personally, I don’t want more than about 33% of calories from fat for my crew and even the 5 star raw often are far above that.

You can also compare calorie counts on a weight basis ( kcals/kg) as the higher fat products will have higher calories . And you can go to balance it dot com and under their help section is a tool called guaranteed analysis converter. You put in the information and it tells you what percent of calories come from fat But like this site, anything unaccounted for will be considered carb when it may actually be fat Getting a typical analysis from manufacturer is best.

[aimee]

Hi Madison,
I’ve fed a mix of kibble moist and home cooked. For the kibble I’ve use primarily Purina Pro Plan and Royal Canin and I used California Natural when that brand was around, Iams, Eukaneuba. For moist I’ve used various Purina products , Rpyal Canin therapeutic some Wellness, some Hill’s products some Iams/Eukaneuba

I’ve used Primal venison “raw” as a topper but always cooked it first

The home cooked is primarily a topper, unbalanced mix of basically leftovers lean meats and veggies that I puree together But I will also cook a complete and balanced recipe and use that instead of the moist component of their diet.

I’m not a fan of raw because I don’t see any real benefit to feeding a raw diet vs the same diet cooked and I do see risk of bacterial infection. I do think there can be greater digestibility of some components of a raw diets over the same diet cooked but I think in most cases the overall effect is minimal and not of significance to me.

In regards to commercial raw I’ve been very disappointed in the companies whom I’ve contacted in that I felt they had little nutritional knowledge, When fact checking their marketing material I found numerous errors and if I could get them to send me a typical analysis I found profound nutrient deficiencies in some products when compared to AAFCO or NRC recommendations. The one raw company I found to be an exception to the above concerns was Nature’s Variety.

Finally, most commercial raw diets have a higher percentage of calories coming from fat than I’m comfortable feeding. So when I’ve use a raw product I us only as a small portion of the overall diet and I always cook it first.

[aimee]

Hi Madison,
I will disclose that I’m not a fan of raw feeding so that you can keep that in mind as you read my comments.

I have used raw foods as a topper and I have cooked them before feeding as a “kill” step for pathogens.
Of the companies offering raw I think Natures Variety is the best option because it best meets criteria that are important to me ( boarded veterinary nutritionist on staff, all products are HPP’d for pathogen control)

In general controlled fat levels are used for pets with digestive concerns and in my experience most raw diets are very high in percent of calories that come from fat. However, it takes a bit of sleuthing to figure that out as I often note that fat levels reported as Min fat is lower than the actual fat.

Patricia, I think the reason you are finding the same food offered as raw or freeze dried reported with different star rating and average fat amounts has to do with how the company is reporting nutrients. For example raw frozen chicken the GA is min 14.5 % protein, 8% fat and max 2 fiber and 74 moisture. Adding those up and subtracting from 100 leaves 2.5% of the diet unaccounted for which is assumed to be carbs. In the freeze dried raw chicken the GA is min protein 55 min fat 27 max fiber 1.5 and max moisture 8. Adding those up and subtracting from 100 leaves 8.5% unaccounted for, assumed by this site to be carbohydrate. But the carbohydrate content of this food would be minimal as the only really source is carb in the form of stored glycogen in muscle or liver. More likely that unaccounted 8.5% is fat or protein. Protein is costly fat is cheap and the higher fat content is accounted for in the frozen version. This becomes evident when you look at the reported protein to fat ratios in the G.A. 14.5/8 =1.8:1 for the raw but jumps to 2:1 in the freeze dried version. Hence the raw is given high fat rating than the freeze dried even though they are reportedly the same recipe. This si one of the problems with rating foods based on a G.A. which reports mins and max.

Hope this helps your understanding.

[Author]

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