[pugmomsandy]

You can buy Yucca and put it on the kibble or in his drinking water. Some products for “fresher breath” contain yucca and also products for joint mobility contain yucca. OR you can give a probiotic (preferrably one that contains multiple strains of organisms) supplement with his meals (capsule, powder, yogurt, kefir). Probiotics help maintain a healthy gut which usually results in less gas. Digestive enzymes will help also to help breakdown food particles since undigested or not completely digested food can cause gas and puppies usually consume more volume of food so more to digest. OR use some dried parsley. I have small dogs so no input on food and they rarely have gas. I’ve been giving them prob/enzymes for a while (not everyday) and they eat a variety of foods and different forms of food. I like your list above. I was OCD like that when I first learned that dog food was not all it was cracked up to be. I’ve probably used about 20 different foods.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Bigcoco –

1) 30% bone is way too much. As Patty said, bone should comprise 10% of the diet. The calcium to phosphorus ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 (ideally around 1.2 – 1.3:1). When the diet is 10% bone, 10% organ meat and 80% muscle meat the calcium to phosphorus ratio is right within that optimal range. A diet of 30% bone will be throwing that ratio of balance.

2) I checked out the product website and I can’t see where organs are included in the mixes? All I see is where they state 70% meat and 30% bone. If organ meat is not included in adequate quantities in the 70% “meat” you’ll need to feed organ meat. Organ meat should comprise 10% of the diet – 5% being liver and 5% being other organs (kidneys, lungs, spleen, pancreas, brain, etc.). Organ meat provides crucial vitamins and minerals that aren’t provided by muscle meat.

3) I can’t find where the level of vitamin e in the Bravo salmon oil is stated on their website and often the amounts added to fish oils are too low. I checked out the Pet Naturals of Vermont Daily Best supplement and there is little vitamin e in that either. Small dogs should get 50 – 100 IU per day, medium dogs 100 – 200 IU per day and large dogs 200 – 400 IU per day. Vitamin e requirements increase when fish oil (omega 3’s) is being supplemented, if adequate quantities are not received with omega 3 fatty acid supplementation the dog will eventually develop a vitamin e deficiency.

4) It’s also possible your dog could be deficient in certain trace nutrients – it’s hard telling without a nutrient analysis but because the Pet Naturals supplement is designed to be fed with a complete and balanced commercial food the amounts of vitamins and minerals are very low (as they are with most pet supplements). To ensure your dog is getting all the trace nutrients he needs I’d recommend either supplementing with a human multivitamin – base the dosage off a 100 lb. person (i.e. 25 lb. dog gets 1/4 human dosage, 50 lb. dog gets 1/2 human dosage, 75 lb. dog gets 3/4 human dosage, 100 lbs.+ gets human dosage) – or adding whole food supplements. I prefer to avoid synthetic supplements for my dogs so I feed a variety of nutrient-dense whole food supplements like kelp, alfalfa, bee pollen, spirulina, wheatgrass, glandulars, sprouted nuts & seeds, etc.

“Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a fantastic resource for raw feeding. It’s a really great book for beginners – short and easy to understand and includes AAFCO compliant recipes. You may want to checkout this book. It was a constant resource for me when I first started feeding homemade raw.

[theBCnut]

Raw should be about 80% meat, 10% bone, and 10% organs(half should be liver). I also add fish oil, superfoods, and a whole foods vitamin supplement. An easy way to get started balancing your raw is to get a premix.

[theBCnut]

I bought their bugs off garlic for my horses and got free stuff for my dogs for years. I love their spirulina and fresh factors.

[momtopoms]

Thanks. I will give them a try.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m assuming you mean Springtime, Inc. And yes, I’ve heard of them and have used them off and on for many years. I really like them. I’ve used their Fresh Factors (great whole food vitamin which I like because Lucy hates most things mixed into her food) and I’ve used their Joint Health and their new Advanced Joint chews. They worked great for my deceased Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. And the Advanced Joint worked when Lucy hurt herself once. I’ve also used their Omegas 3-6-9 and liked them, as well as their Bug-Off Garlic chews for fleas. Love the stuff and they always have b1g2 deals…and if you buy so much you can try free stuff.

[Anonymous]

A few things come to mind as we have dealt with this in the past with our dogs. Has your dog been treated for whipworms? Sometimes a fecal test won’t show positive for whipworms as they go on a cycle, but the dog may still have them, and throwing up is one of the main symptoms. A dog may also have a rough coat, blood in the stool, etc., but not always.
Did they do an ultrasound and bloodwork to rule out a blockage or cancer?
How is the vomiting being managed? There is a drug, cerenia, which is a dog motion sickness drug that is often prescribed for vomiting. It really helped one of our dogs. She was miserable with vomiting, and this drug controlled it when nothing else worked. I don’t know how long a dog can take this drug, but the vet should know. A couple of other things that helped were Perfect Form, a supplement made by The Honest Kitchen as well as the Honest Kitchen dog food. You might also talk to a holistic vet.
If all the above issues have been addressed, I would ask the vet about IBD. One nutritionist develops homemade diets for dogs that end up with this diagnosis, as well as other things. Her name is Monica Segal, and she has a blog as well as a yahoo group.
Hope this helps.

[momtopoms]

I got a catalog from them in the mail. Has anyone tried any of them? The joint supplements look interesting. Thanks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi cashmyhorse –

If home cooking for your dog is something you’re willing to do and can afford, I strongly feel that a balanced homemade diet utilizing fresh, low glycemic ingredients would be the best option for your dog.

Here is some information on diet and diabetes:

dogaware.com/articles/wdjdiabetesdiets.html

As far as balancing the diet, there is a company called “Balance IT” that has vitamin/mineral supplements designed to balance a homemade diet. There is a recipe generator on their website in which you can enter information about your dog, including any health issues such as diabetes, and a recipe will be created to suit your dog’s needs – check it out at balanceit.com. There are also some pre-mixes with low glycemic ingredients that would be suitable for a dog with diabetes – The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance and Birkdale Petmix. With the “Balance IT” supplements and pre-mixes generally all you need to add is meat and water, all the vitamins the dog needs are in the mix. If you want to feed a completely made from scratch diet, invest in a good book with recipes that conform to AAFCO nutrient standards. My favorite book is “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. Another great book is “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker. Dog Aware has some great tips on homemade diets as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sheltie’s Mom –

If you’re feeding a balanced commercial food you don’t need to add any organ meat and I’d keep the tripe to 20% or less of the meal. If you’re making your own food organ meat should account for 10% of the diet (5% liver and 5% other organs) and tripe can account for as much of the other 90% of the diet as you want. Tripe has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio so calcium doesn’t have to be supplemented to account for the tripe. Organ meat is very rich in phosphorus and contains almost no calcium so you’ll want to add around 1,200 mg. calcium per pound of organ meat fed. Gullet and trachea contain mostly cartilage and a small amount of muscle meat – they have close to a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If you’re just feeding trachea or gullet once in awhile as a chew, I wouldn’t worry about balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio.

[rosek]

Hi I have only recently registered here, but have mooched lots of free advice and support over the past year or so. Hopefully, someone has some specific advice for me.

I have a recycled teacup Yorkie, Chanel (or rather she has me, but I digress…). She had a pretty rough life before she came to me, very underweight (less than 2 #), which we eventually got up to a stable 3.5 #. She has always been finicky, but I eventually figured out that, at least in part, her finickiness is sometimes due to a tummy ache/ gastric discomfort which resolves within 18/14 hours. Belly ache or not, she has also been very picky about her food. She would eat something well, even greedily, for a few days or a week, then go completely off it. So I would start again with a series of canned or dry food, finding something she would like.

Mind you, if this munchkin goes more than about 12 hours without eating, than I have to resort to a high calorie supplement (like nutrical), which she HATES. So I do whatever it takes to get her to get some calories on time (at least 3xday). She is otherwise a very healthy senior.

Anyway, I recently discovered a new pet food “boutique” here in Miami and the owner sold me lots of stuff that I asked for for my next “experiment”, but also highly recommended “Farm Fresh Pet Foods”, fresh, frozen pet foods. At this point, Chanel cannot get enough of the stuff, she jumps, spins, barks at the cats, I have never seen her so excited to eat in 2.5 years. She has been eating it for about 2 months.

My Concern is that no one I know has ever heard of it, and even this site has not yet reviewed it. It may be that they are a great product (as Chanel believes) and just haven’t done great marketing and distribution … Is there any one with specific knowledge of this product? They have a good website, but I would love to hear of personal experience.

thanks to all,
Rose

[MindyH]

I admit to being rather unhealthy in my own diet, therefor when our lab suffered food allergies and everyone was recommending probiotics I was at a loss. For this reason I visited numerous sites similar to DOG FOOD ADVISOR. I basically read reviews and comments of dog owners giving advice. I found a family experiencing the identical conditions our 8 year old lab was dealing with and followed their instructions to a T, luckily they where nice enough to respond to my comment with a detailed post. I try and share the 2 basic areas when I see it may be helpful. The first is use a supplement that contains the enzymes Aspergillus oryzae and, Aspergillus niger, ( I use the VitaHound dog supplement) but I have friends using other brands that contain the enzymes and they work the same. Second Feed a home prep diet of 50% of vegetables, 40% of meats and 10% of carbohydrates using three basic sources eg. chicken, rice, carrots. After 30 days, continue with dog supplement and discontinue the home made feedings to a quality dog food. BEST OF LUCK, our dog is allergy free, happy and healthy and I have read many thank yous over the years for passing on the wisdom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Rambo and Fancy –

Another “prescription” option that would be much higher quality than the Hill’s prescription food is one of the formulas from Rayne Clinical Nutrition. They have a low protein formula for dogs with liver issues. The ingredients are: sweet potato, water, egg, butternut squash, canola oil, sunflower oil, vitamin and mineral mixture, fish oil, calcium. It’s 11.2% protein on a dry matter basis. The foods come in trays, probably similar in texture to a canned food, and are made using human-grade ingredients. I have no idea what the prices are (not cheap, I’m sure), but if it’s something do-able for you it’d be something to talk to your vet about. I’m not sure if you have your dog on a support supplement – but Standard Process has some good supplements that are available through veterinarians only. They have a “Canine Hepatic Support” supplement that utilizes herbs and glandulars that are known to support the liver. Just some more things to think about.

[Rambo and Fancy]

Thanks for the info. At least the first ingredient isn’t corn although it is brewers rice. From Hill’s website:
“Brewers Rice, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Dried Egg Product, Soybean Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Flaxseed, Pork Protein Isolate, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Dried Beet Pulp, Calcium Carbonate, Glycerol Monostearate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Menadione Dimethylpyrimidinol Bisulfite (source of vitamin K)), Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, L-Arginine, Taurine, DL-Methionine, minerals (Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, L-Tryptophan, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.”

I’m gonna have to do more research on the subject.

[texasniteowl]

All right…at this point, this post might belong in the supplements area…but it is due to this thread, so staying here. I blame all of you for the $100+ order I just made at Swansonvitamins. OK, mostly for me but also for Wilson…I ended up choosing to go with:

Probiotic: Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s Probiotic. Since it was Buy One Get One, that is a bottle for Wilson and a bottle for me to try.
Enzymes for Wilson: NOW Foods Optimal Digestive System. A human “serving” is 2 capsules (per meal), but Wilson will probably get 1 per meal. I also ordered the NOW Foods Plant Enzymes. It would also be suitable for Wilson it looks like so we’ll be sharing these 2.
Omega 3 for Wilson: Carlson Salmon Oil softgels. Omega 3 for me but which would also work for Wilson: Carlson Elite Omega-3 Gems.

6 other items on my list, but all for me ;>

[InkedMarie]

Thanks Sandy and Patty!
This class was mostly a joke, I’m so thankful it was only 2hrs long. I couldn’t even leave because Steve had dropped me off. When she started talking about alpha dogs, I wanted to be out of there. She never talked about raw foods but instead talked about cooked foods. Had Pitcairns (sp) books there so that was a good thing.
Someone brought up constipation in dogs and she mentioned chia seeds. She also mentioned psyllium but said some dogs don’t like the taste. I don’t know if you gals remember a couple weeks after we adopted Gemma, she was “stopped up”. I still don’t know if it was from eating a stone, from too much or too big bone in the Darwins she ate at the time or what. She has not had that problem again but it does take her awhile to poop. No straining but she does stand in the poop pose, for usually a couple minutes, before she goes. Stool is not hard, not soft, nicely formed. No idea what causes this but I wondered if the chia seed might be worth trying. She eats The Honest Kitchen’s Embark in the morning and Bravo Balance pre made raw in the afternoon. Gets various supplements and a dollop of pumpkin on top of her meals.

[theBCnut]

DinOvite is a powdered whole food supplement that is primarily flax and kelp. I’ve used it in their Yeast Starvation Diet as half of my dogs daily food and had great results, but I haven’t used it added to a regular kibble. I liked it well enough that I will use it again. You do need to add fish oil to it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

Completely understandable that you can’t do raw, it’s not possible for the majority but I thought I’d put it out there is case it was a potential option. I raw feed my crew of three large, extremely active bloodhounds and it gets very time consuming and expensive.

As for toppers – yes, all you would need to do is account for the calories. Generally speaking, the average 13.2 oz. can of dog food as roughly the same amount of calories as an 8 oz. measuring cup of dry kibble.

For fish oil you will want to go by combined EPA/DHA amounts. 100 – 150 mg. mg combined DHA and EPA per 10 lbs. is the general recommendation and what I’d suggest starting with, although I’ve seen sources recommend up to 300 mg. combined DHA/EPA per 10 lbs. for dogs with health issues. The product you’re looking at has a combined EPA/DHA of 610 per serving so that would be just about perfect for your 62 lb. dog.

Human probiotics are perfectly fine for dogs. In fact, I feel that they’re generally higher quality and (oddly) they typically cost less per dose. You certainly can go with a probiotic supplement marketed for dogs, but it’s not necessary. Just look for one with as many strains as possible. If you go with a human supplement, adjust the serving size accordingly. I’d give a 62 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose (although there’s no need to stress about dosages too much as probiotics aren’t something that will harm your dog if you were to accidentally “overdose”).

[texasniteowl]

Thank you both Patty and Hound Dog Mom for your input. I recognize that RAW may be best but it seems intimidating and/or time consuming and/or expensive…and prepackaged/prepared *is* expensive. (Wilson weighs a little over his target weight of 62lbs…we’re currently at 66lb and going down slowly.)

So we do need to stick to dry kibble…at least for now.

I guess I’m leaning towards sticking with the bag of Earthborn Great Plains…at least to finish it…don’t know that I will buy it again. I do have some pumpkin I can add to his meals so I hope that will help with the alternate straining/soft movements. (Also, for what it’s worth, the Great Plains has a guaranteed protein of 34%…lower than the primitive at 38% yes, but much higher than the Fromm’s he was on (27% iirc).)

I will start looking at the options again to try to figure out which to try next. Also, I *am* open to using a topper…either freeze dried or canned. I suppose I just need to account for the calories, right? The rough calorie spot for Wilson’s kibble is 950-975 calories/day. He’s not extremely active…we do around a 1 mile walk daily and he doesn’t get all that many treats. On the Fromm’s, this target had him losing very slowly so I could cut it slightly a bit more, but I’m OK with the extra 5-6 lbs coming off slow.

I have been planning to add fish oil…or Omega 3…supplements. Am confused on amount…do I worry about the amount of epa/dha individually or combined? Example, one product I am looking at has a serving of 2 capsules. That serving contains 360 epa and 250 dha (with the two combined being 610). Is that enough for a dog his size or should I be looking to double that?

I had also been starting to look into Probiotics…HDM I see you listed several human probiotics…no problems with these? I had been looking at Nusentia’s Probiotic Miracle or NWC Naturals Total-biotics but the Swanson for example would be much less expensive.

sigh…apparently I can write novel like responses as well as original posts ;>

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi crazy4cats –

Feeding a variety of red meat, poultry and fish (or if not feeding fish, supplementing with quality fish oil) is very important. Different meats have different amino acid profiles, it’s important to feed a variety so your dog gets a full spectrum of amino acids. Even two different types of poultry – say, chicken versus turkey – will have completely different amino acid profiles. Rotating for this reason isn’t quite as critical when feeding balanced commercial kibble or canned foods as it would be with feeding a home cooked or raw diet as commercial diets should be formulated to include adequate levels of essential amino acids, but it’s still important. Different meats also contain different types of fat: poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (especially linoleic acid) and low in saturated fats and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), ruminants are high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats and DHA and fish is, typically, rich in DHA. Feeding your dogs a variety of different protein sources will help balance the fats in their diet. It’s important that dogs (and cats) consume a balanced spectrum of fats, in order to do this they will need to consume a variety of red meats and poultry supplemented with fatty fish or fish oil or it will be necessary to balance the fats in their food – this would involve supplementing red meat recipes with alpha linolenic acid (ALA), Linoleic Acid (LA) and DHA (walnut oil or hemp oil or canola oil in addition to a fatty fish or fish oil) and supplementing poultry recipes with ALA and DHA (chia seeds or flax and fish or fish oil). I don’t know of any kibble or canned food manufacturer that balances the fats in their foods so it’s best to feed a variety. I personally prefer single protein group foods – red meat, poultry, fish but a food that contains both poultry and red meat would be better than only feeding poultry based foods or only feeding red meat based foods. When I fed kibble I’d cycle between a red meat based food, then a poultry based food then a fish based food. Red meat would be beef, lamb, venison, bison, pork, etc. Poultry would be chicken, turkey, duck, etc. In addition to the reasons stated, I like red meat (for my homemade raw diets) because I have a greater variety of organ meat to choose from. When feeding poultry the only option is liver (gizzards and hearts count as muscle meat), this isn’t enough variety. So I typically feed red meat organs because I can get liver, kidney, lungs, spleen, pancreas – I can also get healthy “by-products” such as trachea, gullet and green tripe.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi texasniteowl –

You may want to get your boy on some supplements that will help his allergies – quercitin, nettle, burdock root and perilla leaf, omega 3’s, bromelain, papain and coconut oil are all supplements shown to help ease allergy symptoms. Aunt Jeni’s sells a supplement called “Enhance Allergy Aid” with vitamin c, burdock root, quercitin and biotin. Vet’s Best sells a supplement called “Seasonal Allergy Support” with bioflavinoids, nettle leaf, vitamin c, perilla leaf and quercitin. You may want to consider purchasing one of these or a similar supplement and giving him some fish oil and coconut oil daily.

If your he is indeed allergic to your grass you should bathe him frequently in an herbal shampoo (avoid oatmeal-based shampoos) and have a foot soak ready to use after he’s been outdoors (you can make a solution using 1 gal. water, 1 c. hydrogen peroxide and 1-4 c. white vinegar or you can mix povidone iodine with water). Soak his feet every time he comes indoors so he’s not tracking the allergen through your house and vacuum frequently.

You should make sure his food is low in carbohydrates as high carbohydrate diets are “pro-inflammatory” and can worsen allergy symptoms. Your best bet, as Patty mentioned, would be a balanced raw diet. If that’s not possible a high protein canned or dehydrated food would be the next best option. If you must feed kibble keep it high protein. My top picks for kibble would be Orijen (38-40% protein), Nature’s Variety Instinct (35 – 42% protein), EVO (42-52% protein), Solid Gold’s Barking at the Moon (41% protein), Artemis Maximal (42% protein) Earthborn Primitive Natural (38% protein) or Wysong Epigen (60% protein). If you can at least top the kibble with balanced raw or a high quality canned or dehydrated food, this would be better than kibble alone.

Supplementing with probiotics is known to help allergies as well. I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic to the food such as Mercola Probiotics, Garden of Life Primal Defense, Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS or Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms. Probiotics may help firm up his stool as well. Some other ideas to help firm him up would be adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplementing with digestive enzymes.

Remember it may take several weeks for things to clear up. Good luck!

[brooklynp221]

My holistic vet told me to use the Ask Ariel probiotic because he has had several cats and dogs with diarrhea that did well with it. Brooklyn is really picky about supplements, and this is easy because I can just open the capsule and put it in her food.

http://www.askariel.com/product-p/81.htm

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi nectarmom –

Some brands perform what’s called “high pressure processing” on their “raw” food to eliminate bacteria. Darwin’s doesn’t do this and – IMO – that’s a good thing. I wouldn’t feed HPP “raw” and would only recommend it in the case of an extremely immune-compromised dog. HPP is just one more process – processing should be limited and food should be kept as close to its natural state as possible. HPP has been shown to cause denaturing of proteins. It’s also speculated that it may affect the fats and enzymes as well. A normal bacteria load present in raw meat is not a concern for a healthy dog. My dogs have been eating raw for almost 2 years, in which they’ve likely been exposed to salmonella numerous times, and have never gotten sick. If bacteria is a concern I’d recommend supplementing with quality probiotics (a healthy population of “good” bacteria will help your dog to keep “bad” bacteria in check) and adding foods that have natural anti-bacterial properties (such as unfiltered apple cider vinegar and coconut oil).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi JillMcN –

Please be aware that using a pre-mix will not necessarily ensure that your dog is getting all the nutrients it needs. There are a few pre-mixes available that meet AAFCO nutrient profiles when prepared per instructions (The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, U-Stew, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix), but many have no claim of meeting the AAFCO’s nutrient standards and many of these – like Sojo’s, for example – don’t appear to be conplete and balanced when prepared according to the instructions. These unbalanced pre-mixes would be fine to use intermittently, but to feed long term you would need to know what supplements to add in order to balance the recipe. So if you’re planning on using a pre-mix long term, please make sure it meets the AAFCO’s nutrient standards.

The recipe you posted actually appears to be quite balanced, only a few things that I’d tweak. I’d cut the liver from 8 oz. to 4 oz. and give 4 oz. of another organ (kidney, lungs, spleen, etc.) I’d add another whole food supplement (such as alfalfa or wheatgrass) in addition to the kelp. I’d also highly recommend rotating in red meat for the poultry 50% of the time – this will help balance the fats as poultry is high in polyunsaturated fats (particularly linoleic acid) while red meat is high in saturated fats and low in polyunsaturated fats. Red meat is also much higher in iron and many micronutrients than poultry. There are several books available that contain complete and balanced recipes that are AAFCO compliant. “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite – the recipes are for raw food but could easily be converted to cooked by substituting muscle meat for any RMB’s and adding 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat.

[JillMcN]

If only the softest bones were removed and processed separately into mush… maybe. OK.

I’ll still remove all the bones this time and continue to add egg shell powder until I decide on which supplements should be added to the above.

Or could someone weigh in and tell me whether I should just get a pre-mix and add my own meat?
I won’t be feeding raw. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[theBCnut]

HDM doesn’t feed less than 50% homemade. Just as you don’t worry about every meal being balanced for yourself, you don’t have to worry about every meal for your dog being balanced. But it must balance over time. Feed your dog a variety of healthy foods. Do the research. And make sure that over time you cover all your bases. Steve Brown’s “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” is good, as are many others. HDMs thread on homemade diets has excellent info and a great recipe for making your own whole food supplement.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi nectarmom –

I wouldn’t be too corncerned about your dogs eating grass. Canine herbalist Juliette de Baircli Levy says that dogs bring on deliberate internal cleaning by eating grass, the grass helps to expel bile, mucus and other impurities. It’s not a strange thing for a dog to be eating grass and it doesn’t ncessarily mean they’re trying to make themselves vomit. If this becomes an ongoing issue, often if you add cereal grasses to their diet the behavior will lessen or cease completely. You can grow your own with a sprouter or buy a grass kit (they sell some specifically for pets). You would take the fresh grass sprouts and mice them and mix with your dogs’ meal. You can also buy grass supplements – wheat grass, barley grass, kamut grass, etc. Cereal grasses rich sources of several nutrients including chlorophyll, enzymes, amino acids and various trace minerals. I include wheat grass in my dogs’ whole food supplement and I grow fresh grass for my cats to nibble on.

[RDandSQ]

9 year old 75 pound dog’s lab work showed dilute urine specific gravity (1.007) and slightly high creatinine (1.7 vs. range of 0.5 – 1.6 mg/dL). Other kidney numbers were good. This dog often drinks a lot, leading to lower specific gravity. The vet suggested going to a Senior Food to get a bit less protein, so his kidneys have less work.

My dog is on Ziwipeak dyhydrated raw food (it’s not raw once dyhydrated) with “quality” protein and no grains etc. It’s pretty much all meat. He get’s 6 scoops per day, with fish oil and some other supplements (Missing Link and Sea Meal). I was focused on the percent protein (36%), but not on the total quantity. Doing the math it seems he’s been getting 122 gm protein per day!!

I now understand the guideline for older dogs is about 2 gms/ per kg (or about 1 gm/ pound), which is slightly more than for adult dogs. Based on this he should be getting about 75 gms/day.

I’m thinking rather than going to a commercial senior dog food with grains and other things, why not just give him less Ziwipeak and augment with vegetables? More so, as he seems allergic to meats other than venison. I was thinking of going down to 4 scoops (about 80 gm protein) per day, which is the recommended amount, and giving him vegetables such as pumpkin, sweet potato, or cauliflower or a combination to make sure he gets the same amount of food he is used to (he’s on the skinny side of normal)

Does that make sense? Other suggestions?

[Tuckers Mom]

Hi HDM: Thanks for your response and all the research you’ve done. I’ve ordered Swanson Mobility one of the supplements on your list and it has boswellia in it. I’m also switching to Earthborn Holistic since its time for some rotation anyway. I can’t get into the Vet until the end of the month. We walk every nite but most of his discomfort seems to come after a trip to the doggie park but he enjoys it so much I hate to take it away from him.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

You only want to use one calcium supplement. You can stick with one or rotate every so often. I’ve actually never used bone meal as a calcium source, but the thing to keep in mind if you want to use bone meal is that it contains both calcium AND phosphorus so you’ll have to add more bone meal than you would a pure calcium supplement (such as calcium citrate) to get the ratio in balance. Most bone meal has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio but it can vary by brand. Dr. Pitcairn’s book “Natural Health for Dogs and Cats” contains a guide guide for balancing recipes with bone meal, I’m sure there are a lot of websites out there that explain it as well. If you’re using a pure calcium supplement, the general rule is about 800 mg. per 1 lb. muscle meat and 1,000 mg. per 1 lb. organ meat – as long as you follow that general rule the end result should be balanced. Sometimes slightly more or less can be used depending on the type of meat – i.e.) fattier meats will be lower in phosphorus and thus require less calcium than leaner meats. In my boneless beef recipe above, after the nutrient analysis I found that I only needed 1,400 mg. calcium to get the ratio where I wanted it. The tripe didn’t require any calcium as tripe naturally has a balanced C:P ratio, 85% lean is a little fattier and contains less phosphorus than extra lean meat and my offal blend contains trachea and gullet which only have slightly more phosphorus than calcium. There really wasn’t any reason behind my choosing calcium citrate other than it was available in powder form – I prefer to use powdered supplements when possible. You could certainly use another calcium supplement such as eggshell calcium, calcium lactate, etc. Just make sure the supplement contains ONLY calcium – some add other vitamins and minerals which, if not accounted for, could over-supplement your dog’s meal. I’ve heard that certain calcium supplements are better assimilated than others, but I really wouldn’t worry too much about what type you’re using as long as you’re getting the amount right.

[shelties mom]

HDM,
I’m confused when to use calcium citrate or bone meal supplement for boneless recipes? Do you rotate the two?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I sprout my own seeds. I buy them raw and have a my own sprouter. I’ve seen pre-sprouted seeds for sale though – health foods stores might sell them and I know nuts.com does. I grind mine in a coffee grinder. I order my raw glandular supplement from Swanson it’s called “Natural Sources Raw Glandular.” There are lots of other good quality glandulars out there too.

[shelties mom]

HDM,
Your recipes look very nutritious! May I ask where you get the Raw Glandular supplement? And where can I find sprouted seeds?

[theBCnut]

Short term, it certainly won’t matter. Long term, I would look into a whole foods supplement to add to it. If it were no more than 3 meals a week I wouldn’t worry about it, but I’m kind of a worrywort, so since it’s half the meals, I would still want a little more.

[Hound Dog Mom]

The dogs are moving through the venison supply quickly so I’ve formulated their next menu. I’ve always fed my dogs so much variety and their yearly blood work has always come back normal, so I’ve never been overly concerned about nutrient profiles. This time however, I decided to actually take the time to run a full nutrient analysis on their new menu. What a headache! It took me a few days of slaving over the calculator, however I’m happy to say their menu exceeds the AAFCO nutrient profile for all life stages. My main focus for this menu was cutting costs, while maximizing nutrition and variety. Because I know this menu is “complete and balanced” and there’s a lot of variety, along with the fact that this will slice about $100 of the monthly food bill – I’ll probably be sticking with this menu for awhile. Breakfasts are divided into three equal portions (one portion for each dog) and dinners are what I would feed to each dog individually.

Mondays/Wednesdays/Fridays

Breakfast:

Makes 3 Servings:
1 lb. Ground Beef
1 lb. Green Beef Tripe
1 lb. Beef Offal Mix (Heart, Liver, Kidney, Spleen, Lungs, Trachea, Gullet)
3 eggs
3.75 oz. Tin Sardines Packed in Water
1 C. Kefir
16 oz. Frozen Broccoli, Cauliflower, Carrot Mix*
1 Bunch Fresh Parsley, Minced
2 tbs. Whole Food Supplement**
2 tbs. Ground Hemp Seed
2 tbs. Ground Sprouted Sunflower Seeds
1 tbs. Coconut Oil
1 tbs. Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother
1/4 tsp. Himalayan Crystal Salt
3,000 mg. Cod Liver Oil
1,400 mg. Calcium Citrate
1,500 mg. Fruit Concentrate (Blueberry, Cherry, Orange, Strawberry, Raspberry, Cranberry)
1,050 mg. mg. Raw Multiple Glandular (Liver, Brain, Stomach, Kidney, Heart, Spleen, Pancreas, Duodenum, Thyroid, Thymus, Adrenal, Parotid, Pituitary)
600 IU Mixed Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Dinner:
2 Turkey Necks (approx. 12 – 16 oz.)
6 oz. Turkey Hearts

Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday

Breakfast:

Makes 3 Servings:
12 oz. Skin-On Chicken Necks, ground
12 oz. Chicken Gizzards, ground
12 oz. Chicken Hearts, ground
12 oz. Chicken Livers, ground
10 oz. Frozen Spinach*
10 oz. Frozen Butternut Squash*
8 oz. Canned Oysters
1 C. Kefir
2 tbs. Whole Food Supplement**
2 tbs. Milled Flaxseed
2 tbs. Sprouted Pumpkin Seeds
5 Cloves Garlic, minced
1 tbs. Coconut Oil
1 tbs. Apple Cider Vinegar with Mother
1/4 tsp. Himalayan Crystal Salt
3,000 mg. Cod Liver Oil
1,500 mg. Fruit Concentrate (Blueberry, Cherry, Orange, Strawberry, Raspberry, Cranberry)
1,440 mg. Colostrum
600 IU Mixed Tocopherols and Tocotrienols

Dinner:
Pork Neck (approx. 20 oz.)

Sundays

FAST: 1 C. Broth (made with THK’s Ice Pups) with Animals’ Apawthecary Detox Tincture morning and night.

*All vegetables are cooked and pureed.
**Whole Food Supplement: 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass, 1 part bee pollen powder.

http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/a501/hagelult/NutrientAnalysis_zps9f3e4b46.png

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BakersMom –

Unfortunately, if he has hip dysplasia there’s no reversing it. At 11 months old he’s already been through his critical growth phase and reducing calcium levels won’t help. Not feeding a puppy formula wouldn’t have caused this – but all of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are technically “puppy” formulas anyways (they’ve all met the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages). A variety of factors are involved in the development of hip dysplasia – genetics (probably the biggest factor), over feeding, calcium intake during the critical growth phase (about the first 6 months), activity level (high impact activity during growth can cause hip dysplasia) and probably numerous other factors we aren’t yet aware of. If you do find out your pup has hip dysplasia it’s not the end of the world, there are several actions you can take to help him live a long and comfortable life. If the dysplasia is severe, your vet may recommend surgery – most orthopedic surgeries have a high success rate. Surgery is expensive, but if the dysplasia is severe it will be cheaper to get surgery rather than pay for expensive supplements and medications for the rest of his life. If the dysplasia is more mild, often the deterioration of the joint can be slowed by supplementing with GAGs and pain and inflammation can be controlled with natural supplements such as boswellia, turmeric, omega 3’s, white willow, yucca, tart cherry, etc. It will also be important to keep him active so the muscles around his hip stay strong, making the hip less likely to luxate. Low impact activities like walking and swimming are great for dogs with joint problems. Human supplements are generally cheaper than pet-specific supplements – I would recommend going for something with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM and also supplementing with an anti-inflammatory such as turmeric or boswellia. Adjust the human dose depending on his weight – for example give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, etc. Give twice the recommended dose for the first two weeks and if you see improvement reduce the dose to half and discontinue the supplement for two consecutive days each week to help keep him from building a tolerance to the ingredients.

[theBCnut]

Don’t worry about the veg unless you see something going on that makes you suspect a real problem. My personal feelings on adding veg and fruits is that I like knowing that mine are getting a variety of antioxidants, just in case. They may not digest every speck of it but they are getting a variety.

I feed twice a day, so 20% of that is about 3 meals, so I feed bones 3 times a week and don’t worry if they don’t eat the usual supplements in those meals. Some people feed raw meaty bones once a day and then for the other meal they make sure that all the days supplements are mixed in.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to give an update on how Dawson is doing on his “real” raw diet! So far he has loved and therefore devoured every meal he has had, which is something for him! He bounces and dances until I put his bowl down. He has loved all the proteins, so far he has had chicken, turkey, duck and beef. What a change for the better! I have also noticed that his eyes are nice and clear and he doesnt have constantly wet “cheeks”. His fur is so soft! It is so nice to have him eat with such vigour instead of throwing his meal all over the floor.
I have a question though, there are carrots in the “dinners” , but I noticed they look the same coming out as they did going in! I was thinking about changing to the 100% meat blends that dont include veggies, or should I not worry too much about carrot pieces? If I do switch to the 100% do i have to worry about more supplements, he gets krill oil, vitamin D and vitamin E. He is getting locally pre-made raw Big Country Raw. Plus I am wanting to add more things like turkey necks, and he Loves beef trachea (so far it is dehydrated), I believe that you guys said it could be up to 20% of his diet, is that right?

[Tuckers Mom]

Hi, need some advice please. I have a 11 month old 60 lb. mix. I’ve been told Lab/Shepherd or Lab/Rotty. He seems to be showing some signs of hip dysplasia, I have a vet appointment at the end of the month. I’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild for several months now. When I went to the pet store they told me they were out of TOTW Puppy and said there was no problem using the adult since there wasn’t much difference. Did my not using Puppy make a difference? After reading Hound Dog’s list for large breed it looks like I’ll be making a food change anyway. I was thinking about starting him on a joint supplement. Aren’t ones for humans more reasonably priced than for dog. Thanks for any advice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[Shawna]

What is it about Mercola’s product that you don’t support HDM? Just curious.

[janet5130]

Hound Dog Mom – I’ve read your post many times to take it all in but i have a few questions for you. First off, aside from dry dog food being cheaper than wet, is there any other reason to feed a dog dry food? As far as adding a supplement from the health section of the grocery store, do you mean in pill form? And, if so, do you mean opening it up and putting the powder in the dog’s food? And my last question is, you give your dog raw bones? You don’t even boil them? Why do I think this is bad? Am I wrong to think they could harbor bacteria or something? Also, I thought that certain bones can splinter and cause issues? Maybe that’s from cooking them? Please educate me further 🙂

Thanks,
Janet

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[Mary Lou]

Thank you, Hound Dog Mom ~ I’m going to order it now. I really appreciate all of your knowledge! Sure makes things so much easier! : )

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[kmarron]

My dog was diagnosed this year with a form of lymphoma. I changed her diet to cooked meat and veggies with no grains. The cancer skin lumps started going away and were practically gone. I worried about this diet not having the correct balance of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, so I changed her diet to follow Dr. Becker’s real food recipes. The lumps are coming back. I believe this is because of the high glycemic foods in her recipes, namely the fruit. So I am going to modify the recipe to exclude all of the fruit except some blueberries and green apples (lg. sugar molecule fruit). Again I worry about how this change affects the nutrient balance. Should I just continue with her formula for vitamin supplement mix, or is there something more to add now that the fruit is eliminated?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Mary Lou –

Sorry I accidentally mis-posted the name – that supplement is called “Joint Power Rx,” for some reason I always get mixed up and call it “Joint Care Rx” lol. Anyways, thought I’d clear that up in case you try to order it you’ll know the real name. I think it would definitely be a good supplement to try. The recommended human dose is 4 capsules per day and it recommends 1 or 2 capsules per day for dogs and cats. Because you’ve got a little guy, I’d say start out with 1 capsule per day. If you see a lot of improvement you may be able to decrease that to 1 capsule every other day. I ordered this supplement for my senior awhile back and I gave him 3 capsules per day (he’s 110 lbs.).

[Mary Lou]

Hi Hound Dog Mom ~

Our 6 1/2 year old Bichon was diagnosed with a luxating patella with a grade of 1/2. The vet sells Dasuquin, but he knew I probably would not want to use it with our guy’s allergies. I think I would like to try the Joint Care RX you mentioned. Do you know how much I would give him at 14 lbs? Is there another supplement that you think may work better with this issue?

Thanks so much!!

[InkedMarie]

NectarMom, I just wanted to make rue you realize that the Wellness you bought is only for supplemental feeding or as a topper.
Regarding Darin’s, go to thir website, you can pay $14.95 for a trial size. They will require you to set up a shipment schedule but you can easily cancel it with one phone call

[Hound Dog Mom]

The amount of iodine in a fish oil will depend on what type of fish oil you’re using and it can even vary from brand to brand. For example, cod is rather high in iodine so a cod liver oil will contain more iodine than some other types of fish oil. The best thing to do would be to contact the company that manufactures your fish oil you’re using to obtain the exact iodine levels. If you have the patience, you could contact the company for each food you feed to obtain the iodine levels, contact Solid Gold to get the iodine levels of the supplement and get the iodine levels of the fish oil and see what type of daily iodine intake you’re looking at. He shouldn’t be getting more than 50 mg. iodine per kilogram of food.