[teslarocks]

I have been feeding my dachshund Nature’s Logic canned food (various protein sources) exclusively for past 6 months and she doing well on it. However I just noticed on label that is “intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding only”. Hopefully I have not hurt her. I want to stay on a canned diet only as she has trouble chewing kibble and I don’t want to go raw. Are all canned foods like this or does anyone know what cans I can try that are a “full meal”?

Thanks

[theBCnut]

Taurine is naturally in meat, but freezing and thawing can cause the meat to lose some taurine in the drippings. If she will eat grinds, use whole carcass grinds and make sure to mix the fluid back in before feeding. Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore both have them. I tried the taurine supplement that Hare has, but my cats completely rejected it. Cooked egg is better than no egg, lightly cooked is even better.

[Shasta220]

Sandy, I doubt she’d eat tripe. We don’t have access to it anywhere to see, but if she’s refused all other organs we offered, I doubt she’d eat it.

I’ve not tried giving her feeder animals…I honestly doubt we’d buy live animals for her, I’m far too squeamish. Occasionally when she goes outside and catches a bird/mouse, she’ll eat most of it, but usually not.

I knew about taurine and how important it is…I’d look into buying a supplement of it, but gosh she is so dang picky, I just don’t know if she’d accept it. Where is taurine naturally sourced from? Is it an animal-product?

I’ve thought about commercial raw, but we don’t have access to it here, and I sincerely doubt she’d eat it, as she detects any extra stuff we grind in her meat (egg yolks, supplements, etc.)

Gosh I feel so bad for her though! Her pickiness is keeping her from being the healthiest she can be… -_-

[Dori]

Hi Losul. First, how’s Turbo doing and have you been able to calm down a little? I hope so.

I really appreciate that in the midst of what you’re going through you’ve taken the time to get info for me and pass it along. I came out at the same conclusion that you did but you have no idea how gratified I am that they are your findings also. I’ve been doing a lot of research also on the different HW meds since Turbo was diagnosed and decided that since I have to do something, and living in the South, I will do it all year long long.

I do have another issue that I’m really taxing my brain over. I know a lot of you don’t like the idea of HW med that includes the flea ingredient. But living here in Georgia we have a lot of mosquitos, and fleas. Because we don’t normally get cold freezing weather for enough days in a row (this winter being the exception) nothing, and I do mean nothing, seems to die. I’ve gotten mosquito bites myself in the dead of Winter here. Fleas are pretty much a year round thing. Ticks? Not so much. I need some thoughts on my situation and my girls. Do I go with just the HW med or HW and flea? I’m mostly concerned about Katie getting flea bites with all her allergies she would probably have a pretty bad reaction. Good Lord! I sometimes feel this will never end. I go to sleep thinking of all these issues and wake up with the same thoughts wondering “Did I actually fall asleep?” or has these been some really long nights. Of course, if it’s not only these issues then there’s the food issues (allergy dog to food and environment, scents, you name it she can’t handle it). Then there are the supplements. Katie has started scratching again, no change in food, no fleas or anything on her. I started removing supplements one at a time for a couple of days and it seems she’s not doing well with the Mercola digestive enzymes. The other two are doing fabulous. I didn’t know they could have a reaction to digestive enzymes. I swear this little girl is going to have me pulling out what little hair I have left. Shawna referred to Katie as a delicate flower. I wish those were my kind thoughts of Katie. But she’s so damn cute, sweet, and with all her issues she’s just the happiest “go with the flow” little girl I’ve ever had the pleasure of having in my life. Not to mention it was because of her that I found this site (whilst pulling some hair out, mine, not hers) and my other two girls have been the beneficiaries of this fabulous site and my goto fabulous/wealth of knowledge posters. Thank you again for being so caring not only about your dog but all dogs. Some of you posters are so amazing.

[hpmiro]

I would say it’s ok to feed all 3 dogs the same food, but if some are less active then others than its probably a good idea to keep an eye on them and see if there’s any issues with weight. If so then cut back on the feeding amount. Slow feeders would be a great way to individually feed your dogs and slowing down the feeding has proven to be beneficial anyways

I think supplementing your dogs and any dog isn’t a bad idea. Just like us, our pets could only benefit from an added supplement. There’s lots of great options out there as far as supplementing goes, I would visit a local pet shop or boutique as they tend to know a bit more about their products and I find them very helpful! Organic Pet Superfood by bixbi has a pretty awesome line.

[Jackie B]

There’s a Hypoallergenic dog foods list in the Best Dog Foods section on the main site.

I also sometimes homecook for my dog. I use a book by Rick Woodford, Feed Your Best Friend Better. It is easy and uses common ingredients. There are instructions for if you want to supplement with it or if you want to feed all homemade. Easy.

[Jackie B]

Cats, especially males, need plenty of wet food. As people have already stated. If I was able to have a cat, I would seek out a brand like WildKitty where you can make your own raw at home. I feel like it is the optimum food for cats. That being said, if you want to do kibble and supplement with canned, any can is better than none. But a canned food without red-flag ingredients (same standard as for dogs) would be my pick.

A friend of mine who fosters many cats and kittens says Authority is her budget-friendly but still quality canned food choice.

Also, you can get a pet watering fountain. Cats love them. I have a CatMate brand one for my dog.

[losul]

Hello again Dori.

I wouldn’t EVER want to discourage milk thistle use in totality. I really do believe in it’s potent powers to protect and even help heal the liver. But it’s also because of these potent powers I think awareness/caution is warranted, and especially in regards to possible interactions with other drugs/botanicals, and under certain other circumstances.

I think the last time I looked into this, was well over a year ago. The bookmarks I had on it died with my last computer. It’s hard to get detailed and reliable info from anywhere but the manufacturers, as to actual expected half lives, exactly how the drugs are metabolized, etc. and am having difficulty getting that reliable info again. It’s also hard to get reliable studies on various herbs and supplements,

Going by other resources I think it can be established that ivermectin is primarily metabolized by CYP3A4 in the liver, and as far as I’m concerned, for me, there is enough evidence that milk thistle does inhibit CYP3A4, even though there are few studies as to exactly what extent, dosage rates, potency hard to be determined etc. on milk thistle or almost other botanicals/herb. Most sites I’ve seen, classify milk thistle as a CYP3A4 inhibitor of undefined potency, which would be usually be the case in unregulated and essentially non-standardized supplements. That study referenced in the link i posted the other day, implies relatively high inhibiting potency for milk thistle.

http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/mthistle.html

Not sure exactly how milbemycin, moxidectin, is metabolized, but I would have to assume it’s much the same way as ivermectin, as they are all in the same class of drugs. Apparently ivermectin has a longer longer half life in dogs than i recalled, and milbemycin a little longer than ivermectin. But these, when given in oral dosages, are at least predictable as to their peak plasma concentrations, especially when given without a meal, it’s within hours. Because of the slowed release method of topical moxidectin, peak concentration times for that cannot reliably be determined, I’ve read anywhere between 8 to 21 days after dosage. I would have liked to have incorporated milk thistle into Turbo’s regimen at some point, but as of now, I don’t see how i can confidently do that using moxidectin, and what i don’t know yet about moxidectin. Because all these HWP’s are in the same class of drugs, for now I have to assume they are metablized much in the same way as ivermectin.

If a medication has an expected half life of 24 hours, it doesn’t mean the medication will be cleared in 48 hours. It means that every 24 hours the remaining plasma concentration should be expected to be divided by 2.

I suspect that most advice for milk thistle is for very low dosage, only once a day, and after a reasonably safe time period, at least a day or two after HWP administration? Given in that way, I wouldn’t think there would be significant alterations in elimination time or efficacy, However, I wouldn’t listen to any advice that says to give it before, concurrently with, or immediately after any HWP. Nor any loading up on dosage of it. Additional precautions should be dogs with the defective/suspected defective MDR1 gene, which are already much more susceptible to these drugs crossing the blood/brain barrier, dogs on certain other drugs, or are being given high doses of ivermectin, or the others.

“Dogs with defects in the P-glycoprotein gene (MDR1) can be severely poisoned by ivermectin.”
“Since drugs that inhibit CYP3A4 enzymes often also inhibit P-glycoprotein transport, the risk of increased absorption past the blood-brain barrier exists when ivermectin is administered along with other CYP3A4 inhibitors. These drugs include statins, HIV protease inhibitors, many calcium channel blockers, and glucocorticoids such as dexamethasone, lidocaine, and the benzodiazepines.[21]”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Note: I think ivermectin and other like drugs given in the low dosages as given normally for heartworm protection, are usually considered safe for dogs with the defective MDR1 gene, unless other factors come into play.

The only time I would ever consider loading up on milk thistle for a dog is if poisonous mushroom ingestion is strongly suspected or in acute aflatoxin poisoning. In which case, high dosages could save the dogs liver and it’s life.

[Cyndi]

From what I know, you definitely need to get “taurine” in her. I believe that’s what it is that cat’s can suffer a deficiency from. There are quite a few reviews I’ve read on Hare Today, where I get my raw meat for my dog, from people who feed their cats a raw diet. They sell mice, and baby chicks and whole sardines and stuff. You might want to look into that…

Good luck! 🙂

*Edit* & Hare Today does sell a Taurine supplement.

https://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=291

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Cyndi.

[Dori]

I, too, use much lower doses than suggested on the different supplements. My girls are all toys, and I feel that they don’t need the dosing recommendations of the jars. I also don’t add them to every meal (they eat twice a day). Depends on what I’m feeding them on any given day. I don’t use a protein booster because they are all on a raw diet and their diets are all pretty high in protein to begin with.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yep, I understand what you mean lol….especially when the dogs don’t eat very much in the first place. Anyway, I always look at feeding guidelines on supplements, but sometimes they sound like too much! So…..I always start out with a very small amount, less than 1/8 tsp. for my little guys, and go from there. I can always tell if a supplement is too much for them if they start having loose stool, or not wanting to eat their food like they usually do, etc.

[crazy4cats]

Hi All-
That Nature’s Logic fortifier looks interesting. It looks like it contains probiotics, digestive enzymes and a protein boost. Seems like it would be easier than adding all separately. How much does it suggest to add? It doesn’t show feeding recommendations on their website. Are you having good results with it? Thanks for any input. Sometimes I feel like I’m feeding more supplements than food. Lol! And I have big dogs.

[Shasta220]

I’m sorry, but I will go through the sob story of Millie. We rescued her as a 5wk kitten. I thought she was old enough to start cat food, but Dad insisted on dropper feeding her for a few days. I have no clue if that had anything to do with it, but she refused cat food when we offered it to her about a week later.

We tried dry, canned, organic, flaked, pouched. She sniffed it and backed up as if it was rotten. We got desperate enough to try “starving” her, offering NOTHING but cat food. She went a week without any food, and still had zero desire for cat food, even after force feeding it to her.

Eventually she got to eating kitchen meat scraps, hot dogs, and cheese (I’m repulsed too, but I simply knew /nothing/ about feline nutrition back then. It’s in the past now and can’t be changed – so please don’t chew me out, I’ve scolded myself enough for letting my parents feed that to her LOL!)…

A couple years ago we took her to the vet for urinary issues. They gave her some meds and she cleared right up, but it’s back now.

Her current diet is *shameful face* raw chicken legs. I wish we could some how get some supplements into her diet, but I’ve tried adding a basic supplemental powder (I added about 1/4 of a day’s worth into some ground meat), and she immediately detected it and refused.

I’m just wondering what the most basic raw diet is out there that I can get away with. I can’t try ANYTHING that’s commercial, as she’s turned her nose up at it ALL, I promise. She likes muscle meat/fat from almost every protein source, and she eats almost the whole leg bone of the chicken, so I’m not at all worried about her calcium. I’ve offered her heart/gizzard/liver, and she refused. Occasionally when I grind her meat, I can sneak about 10% liver/heart into it, but that’s it. I tried adding an egg, but she doesn’t like them (occasionally she’ll eat them cooked).

So, what /will/ she eat? She, obviously, likes her muscle meat/fat/bone, and she likes cheese/milk (no yogurt), peanut butter, and coconut oil.

I’m just wondering if anyone else has a cat as miserably picky as her, and how they manage to get at least SOME of the required nutrients into the diet….because I’m sick and tired of cleaning her messes (I thought her walking into the litterbox and forgetting to turn around was just her personality, but after doing some research, I found that “missing” is a further sign of urinary problems).

Please don’t tell me “just take her to the vet” because we have. They’ve done all they can do – it’s all up to her and what she will/won’t put in her mouth.

Sorry for being so long-winded, and sorry if it was confusing at all…but I’m a bit confused myself. Why can’t she be like the other cats and just eat some balanced canned/dry food? I don’t know -_-

[pugmomsandy]

I use Sprngtime’s Longevity and Fresh Factor. Sometimes I use Only Natural Pet Super Daily Greens. Oh – and I’ve also used Dr Harvey’s supplement. I would probably use some from b-naturals too.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Dori]

I like Mercola supplements. I use Mercolas complete Probiotics for Pets and Mercolas Digestive Enzymes. I trust both Dr. Mercola and Dr. Karen Becker. I also supple with Nature’s Logic Sardine Oil two or three times a week. If I give my girls whole canned sardines in water than I don’t add the Sardine Oil. I do supplement with Coconut Oil every day. Coconut oil does not, it is my understanding, interfere with their diets or any other oil. Coconut Oil is more of a antioxidant. Works differently than fish oil. I prefer sardine oil to other oils and my girls do well on these supplements. One of my girls gets glucosamine/chondritoin daily and supplements from Ark Naturals (Grey Muzzle) for heart and cognitive function (that’s my 14 year old girl). Oh, my 14 year old Maltese gets Nzymes antioxidant daily. Hope any of this helps. It’s what I do for my girls. Works for them anyway.

[Mom2Cavs]

I like Springtime, Inc. supplements. They’re whole food. Also Standard Process is good, their Whole Body Support is a good, whole food vitamin/mineral one. Wholistic Pet has some good supplements, too.

[weezerweeks]

Thanks Sandy any suggestions for another whole food supplement besides natures logic that has different things where I can rotate. Thanks

[pugmomsandy]

Do don’t have to supplement every meal since the canned food is complete. Try NL and the joint supp for one meal, prob/enz in the second meal. Fish oil two or three times a week, especially if you’re using a human dose, he’ll get more than enough.

[Mom2Cavs]

What you are giving him sounds like a good plan. The Nature’s Logic fortifier is a whole food supplement and I believe should not be “too much”. I really don’t know if you mean you might overdose him on something or if it’s too rich. But, either way, it should be a healthy supplement to add if he tolerates it. All the rest are fine, too. The doses for all these supplements for such a small dog should be small, as well. If you are worried about changing the taste of his food and him not eating, then you could use something else to help deliver the supplement, like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc…. to put some of the supplements in and give as a treat. As for the joint supplement, you could always get one that is packaged like a treat and give it that way, so it doesn’t have to be mixed into his food. The coconut oil would probably be licked right off your finger as a treat, and if the fish oil is a gel cap you could wrap it in something, like cheese, or use cream cheese and cover it and give as a treat, as well. The probiotics and enzymes shouldn’t change the taste of the food. And as far as him being healthier without all the supplementation….sometimes supplements can cause issues, like allergic ones, or loose stool, etc., so it is a choice you have to make, whether or not to give, and if you do want to give supplements to try to find those that the dog can accept either in his food or as a treat. I should know all this because I have smaller dogs who don’t eat that much food and I do like to give supplements. Lucy, my Mixed Breed, has a rare type of skin cancer (I believe she’s in remission, atm, yay!) and she takes a liquid maitake mushroom supplement in her canned/dry food every morning. I was very worried she might not take it in her food and I’d have to get creative, but she has with no problems…very good, lol. I also give Standard Process supplements, which are powders, and sometimes they will give a little loose stool, so I back off a little. If I feel I’m overloading them with supplements I tend to break it all up between morning and evening or give as a treat during the day. Sometimes I don’t give a supplement every day, but every other. I also evaluate their supplements at times to determine if I still need to give something or if I can stop for awhile. I also like to rotate supplements, too. I will give Wholistic Pet for awhile and them I’ll switch and give Nature’s Farmacy stuff, or Springtime, Inc. I’ve used cream cheese to give pill type supplements to Lucy because she’s picky. The Cavaliers tend to just eat anything I give them lol. These methods have worked with my dogs and I hope some of the suggestion help.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

I have my little yorkie on canned food. He only gets 1/3cup a day divided by 2 so each meal is not very much. I want to give him the correct supplements but it’s hard because it changes the taste of his food. I give him natures logic fortifier, mercola’s digestive enzyme and probiotic, coconut oil once a week, Nordic natural fish oil every day.I’m also starting him on joint supplement because of his luxating petalla.since he’s only on canned food how would you supplement him each day. The natures logic has so many things in it I’m afraid it’s too much.should I give it every day along with the enzyme and probiotic and what other super food should I use instead of this or to rotate. I am trying so hard but I’m getting so confused because their are soo many supplements. Sometimes it seems he was healthier just eating kibble with no supplements except fish oil.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sorry Sharon! I just saw this post. The online database is http://www.alacalc.co.uk/ I signed up for the 3 free recipes to test it. So far I’ve been able to add HDMs Whole Food Supplement and her Veggie/Fruit mix as a recipe then as an ingredient to one of her suggested recipes Beef/Turkey. I also recently found data on raw, bone-in items so I could add turkey necks etc (http://dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html). After that I can download a spreadsheet which gives the calculations of about 50 different nutrients. I’m seriously considering purchasing for 15 recipes. It costs $50 but I will feel so much better about doing my own ‘recipes’ if I can make sure everything is well-balanced. (Will post on this on FB, too)

[weezerweeks]

Patty this is the joint supplement I was asking u about and yes they make it for horses.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hi Akari, I don’t know why your sweet Bentley coughs. Maybe dry food on his throat?
I give my other 2 dry food w/ a tiny bit of water – but Honeybee only eats canned & dehydrated. He inhales dry food and he just doesn’t do good on it. He coughs when his trachea is acting up or when he gets itchy skin. I didn’t even see the pollen when I had him outside yesterday…or he never would have been out! Keeping him inside is easy…it’s COLD out and he don’t like it. LOL He also gets this way in summer with the grass. Breaks out in hives and skin turns red.
What do you think of Dr. Harvey’s Emune Boost supplement with bee pollen and other good herbs? Maybe that would do Bentley and Honeybee some good.
I rinsed his feet with water and vinegar and no outside for awhile for him. They can keep us on our toes, huh? Lil stinkers!

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with you, but my old vet didn’t look into things and wanted me to keep my Mix Breed on the Royal Canin SO for life when she had a uti with struvite crystals. Well, it said right on the bag that is was supplemental and not to be used for a long period of time! Let’s just say that anitbiotics killed the uti and the struvites went away. She has been on RC SO since then and that was years ago. Anyway, my vet now, a holistic vet practice, knows quite a bit about canine nutrition. He even does podcasts on onevetmed (or something like that lol). Very knowledgeable. Like I said before, he believes in raw feeding and carries Nature’s Variety, all forms, and Steve’s Real Food in his clinic and that is what he feeds his Goldens.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
No, I wasn’t worried about it until this thread was started! I just get worried when I hear talk about intestinal damage due to the parasite fiasco we had. Both of the enzymes I have are part of a multi-enzyme supplement. My dogs are doing pretty well right now. So I won’t worry too much. Thanks, BC nut. (But you will always be Party V to me!)

[FreeholdHound]

Update: the Mobility Essentials seem to be working out well for Harry. Through the Winter from Hell (another 8-14 in expected in 48 hrs) Harry’s limp hasn’t flared up in all the ice & snow. His Vet agreed w/ the racing trainers I’ve spoken to that it’s a past ankle injury & joint supplement wouldn’t hurt.

[Shasta220]

I tend to avoid Eukanaba, as it’s not very quality. The suggestions of Victor and other GF foods were good, then adding digestive supplements (like probiotics and fiber from pumpkin). My boy used to go a LOT too. He made 6-10 full-sized piles daily. We moved him to a better quality food without all those junky fillers, and he went down to 2-4 piles daily.

[theBCnut]

No, they don’t all contain it, just the “better ones” do. One of my dogs requires a pretty good dose of digestive enzymes, and I do rotate, but I’ve never noticed any problems with him even if I give him a double dose of enzymes with bromelain. I don’t think I’d feel good about giving him an enzyme supplement that was just bromelain though. As long as it is just part of a multi-enzyme supplement and you aren’t seeing problems, I wouldn’t worry. That said, I do rotate everything, including what enzymes I use. If you are worried, then I would use the one with bromelain every other or every third day. The intestinal lining repairs very quickly once whatever is causing damage is removed unless the damage is severe and you would know it if it was.

[Shawna]

I just posted this to HDM on the regular site but thought you might not see it..

“The doxy makes the worms sterile so resistance shouldn’t be an issue with any worms picked up from the doxy treated dog. One of the benefits of giving doxy is that it makes the dog no longer infective to other dogs.

From heartwormsociety.org “Microfilariae from dogs treated with doxycycline that were ingested by mosquitoes developed into third-stage larvae that appeared to be normal in appearance and motility, but these larvae were not able to develop into adult worms, thus reducing the risk of selecting for resistant sub-populations.” http://www.heartwormsociety.or…

I see advantages to the fast kill as well as slow kill methods. I personally would use the slow kill with SP Canine Cardiac Support and herbs mentioned in Dr. Goldsteins book for heartworm treatment plus. But I understand Losul’s desire to get the worms out as soon as possible too… And Turbo seems to be a good candidate for the fast kill method when doxy and heatguard (or another form) are used first to lessen the risks of immiticide treatment.

I’d give raw eggs to keep glutathione levels up. Cardiac support by giving an organ supplement or giving organic heart. I like Standard Process because it has anti-inflammatory factors that work specific to the organ being used for as well as “food” for the specific organ. Anti-inflamatories like turmeric. I personally would give small amounts of garlic and use probiotics regularly. etc etc etc Chlorella is an excellent detoxer.

Edit — been a HORRIBLY busy at work last few days.. I’ve missed much of what has been discussed :(..”

Another thing to consider is that although nobody wants to get that diagnosis, it is really not as bad as some try to make it. You caught it early. Even before symptoms appeared. He has every chance of doing well no matter which way you go. After re-reading your post I do see where your vet is recommending doxy and heartworm before the immiticide. That makes me feel more comfortable with his recommendation!!! 🙂

Here’s a link that may not provide new info but hopefully will take a little of the scare out of the diagnosis.. This is naturopathic vet Dr. Jeannie Thomason’s site http://www.thewholedog.org/heartworm.html

PS — I found several folks that had dogs with a minor infection like Turbo’s. One said her dog was free of heartworm nine months after starting the slow kill method. Some of the results you are hearing from could be from immune compromised dogs as well. Turbo is way ahead of the pack in that regards. That is also why I would be less freaked about the fast kill method for him!!! You’re a good puppy parent and Turbo has every chance of having no complications because of it.

I’ve always read to use ivermectin when doing slow kill. I’d do more research before choosing slow kill and anything but ivermectin. A quick google search says this about moxidectin “Ivermectin is the medication most commonly used to kill the microfilaria (larval stage.) There are other medications that will kill them (such as milbemycin) but ivermectin kills more slowly. When too many microfilaria die at once, it can cause shock and collapse for the dog. Thus, ivermectin is preferred because of the slower kill rate. Other products like selamectin and moxidectin do not kill the microfilaria efficiently enough to clear them reliably. Fortunately, ivermectin is available in several monthly heartworm preventive medications. Examples are Heartgard ®, Tri-Heart® and others.” http://vetmedicine.about.com/od/diseasesandconditions/a/CW-HeartwormTreatments.htm

Of course, one comment on vetmedicine site is not enough to base something like this on but do research more before deciding. I’ll try to check it out too.

Did you ask him his reasoning for recommending the rabies vacc at this time? Is it that he is not aware of the problems, disagrees that problems could arise, thinks they are overstated or what? Does your state allow exemptions? Why not put it off?

Here’s data from several people that have actually USED the slow kill method and cleared heartworm. And likely these are dogs that are nowhere near as healthy as Turbo however I don’t know that. Just a guess. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?365271-Slow-Kill-Heartworm-treatment

It’s also the method that most rescue use around here. And again I would try to get Dave’s Hounds input. BUT, when it really comes down to it you will do what you think is best for Turbo and EVERYONE here that is truly your friend will support your decision because we all know that you are the one that has to live with that decision not us… We all will support you no matter what your choice. And as stated before, I think Turbo is a good candidate for the immiticide option as he is young, healthy and has the right person in his corner!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Shawna.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Mommadog-
Have you got rid of the infection? Was it giardia? Mine had a tough go with giardia and now are also sensitive. I am currently using Victor grain free with a digestive supplement and they seem to be doing much better. Good luck.

[hpmiro]

What food are you on now? I would try Firstmate. Its a limited ingredient food that has about double the amount of fiber then your typical dog food. Have you tried supplementing with pumpkin or the like?

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by hpmiro.

[losul]

I just discovered Tuesday evening that our dog Turbo has heartworm infection. It came as a huge shock, as i thought I was being meticulous with his care and his diet. Almost as bad, I am probably to blame for it, and I am sickened and upset by this. I was using
Heartguard+ chewables. I was trying to minimize his toxin exposure, so I didn’t give year round, just for the approximately 7 months mosquito season, and every 35 days instead of 30. Also, because Turbo is 34 pounds and I had the box for 26-50lbs, I was only giving him 2/3 of the chew. Lastly I was keeping the HG in the refrigerator, and now I found out that HG isn’t supposed to be refrigerated and they can’t guarantee the efficacy when refrigerated. I just called them and reported the case to them, telling them all the truth about the situation.

I don’t want to write our life story, sorry about the lengthy post, I’m just trying to get all the info out, so I can hopefully get some good advice to help me make the best decisions. Turbo is approximately 32 months old, 34 pounds, a boston terrier mix, we think maybe mixed with staffordshire or pit, but almost certainly mixed with some kind of bully type. We adopted him from our County’s Animal control about 1.5 years ago. He spent somewhere around 1/2 of the first 14 months of his life in 2 different sessions at the County shelter, and evidently 1 session at a City shelter. It was the first dog we have had in about 7 years, after having had many previously, for most of my life. We were out of the loop on most things dog, so I got very studied up on it, wanting to do things as right as possible, before we even started looking for another dog. I knew the type ( boston terrier or mix) I wanted and knew that I would put him on a raw diet before we even got him, and so be it, within 3 or 4 weeks we had him on about a 60% raw, 40% commercial diet, with no problems ever, except some gas for awhile.

Turbo is very handsome, charming, and playful, but can be rude, stubborn, very assertive, sometimes defiant. We love him the way he is, he’s always been a joy, and no real problems at all, except some assertion/agression (not fearful aggression) towards certain dogs, usually only the largest dogs or bully types. He’s completely different (quirks) than any other dog we’ve ever had, but for us, he’s really a perfect fit, and is always well behaved in the house.

We’ve been in search of a great dog Vet since we got Turbo. Tuesday’s visit was the 4th different vet. I had set up an appointment ahead of time for his upcoming rabies shot, and to test the waters with a new (and hopefully permanent) vet. In the meantime Turbo had a really strange and scary issue that happened Saturday evening and lasting into Sunday. An hour or so after he had his Saturday evening meal, and totally not typical, he began “hiding” in a corner of the house, or he would go to either the basement door or the back door. We take him through the basement into the garage when we go in the car. He goes out the back door into our yard. He also started very visibly trembling, looking very sheepish, and scared. He would not take a treat at all, so totally untypical of him. Once outside, he did not want to come back in at all, wanting to lay on a chair on the deck instead, even though it was quite cold and he doesn’t like cold for long. We’d make him come back in only to do the same again. Sitting in the corner at the end of the hall or at the basement door or the back door. He acted like he just wanted to be out of the house and maybe even away from us, seemed afraid of me for no reason, and the trembling hard, very scary. So not typical, Turbo has NEVER been fearful of anything that I know of, but he just did NOT want to be in the house at all. I eventually took him for a short car ride, and he seemed to have perked up some. So we got back into the house just a little bit reluctantly. He then took a treat fairly eagerly, but after taking a second one, he suddenly just dropped it and ran away to the corner again. The trembling and strange behavior again too. We nearly took him to the emergency clinic. It later subsided though, and eventually he went to bed right beside me, where I watched him the rest of the night. He seemed to sleep well. Next day, just a little more of the same scary stuff, and then he ate his typical raw morning meal. Soon after eating he started acting better throughout the day (Sunday). He never vomited nor had diarrhea nor showed any obvious pain through the whole ordeal.

Baffled, I spent most of Sunday researching the trembling symptoms. Nothing seemed really to fit at all, but I was concerned about problems like kidney/liver. I contemplated all sorts of things such as Lyme or tickborne illness ( he had a tick on his ear that I didn’t catch right away, it was November and we had already had several hard freezes. The tick left a pea sized nodule that lasted about two months. Friday evening he chewed on a cow hoove awhile until I took it away from him, because he had broken off a rather large sharp shard. Saturday morning he had his typical raw meal, but his evening meal was not quite as typical. Usually he gets 2/3 cup kibble matched with 1/3 of a can food, or 3/4 cup kibble and an egg, or sardines. This time I gave him less than 1/2 cup kibble + about 4 ounces of canned salmon + 1 egg cooked in coco oil, and i added about 1/2 t of nutritional yeast. i think I’ve added a very small amount of yeast to his raw mix before, but not completely sure. So thoughts of a bad reaction to the yeast also came into play, along with thoughts of too much fat at once. Even the thought of a ghost in the house came up.

Monday morning I called the vets office an\d told them I thought we needed to put the rabies shot on hold, and instead get him checked and do some blood work to get to the bottom of this. Tues evening: I explained everything to the techs and the vet as best I could, even that I home prepped over 1/2 of his diet. He asked me what I was feeding him and I told him him briefly, just didn’t come out and say”raw”, but I think he knew it. He didn’t ask if raw and seemed satisfied with what I was feeding and supplementing. This
vet spent alot of time with us, well over an hour, didn’t admonish for anything, wasn’t arrogant in the least, didn’t “push” anything , and so far I think I like him O.K. He examined Turbo and was pleased with his apparent health. So he didn’t push any lab work at all. I still elected to go with an outside lab wellness blood work, along with an in house tick borne illness and heartworm check.

I was floored when they came back and said he was both pos on the antigen and microfiliae HW tests. He was negative on the tickborne. He explained the clinic’s HW protocol; 1) monthly HW preventative for 2 months prior to treatment, and continuing throughout treatment and beyond. 2)Doxycycline. for 2 weeks prior to treatment.3) first immiticide treatment (injection); dexamethasone injection, tramadol injection. Hospital overnight, strict confinement until returning for next treatment.4) doxycycline again for 2 weeks prior to immiticide treatment. 5) 2nd immiticide treatment. ( 2 injections 24 hours apart), dexamethasone and tramadol injections given daily with each treatment. Hospitalized for 3 days and 2 nights. strict confinement at home 30 days 6) Heartworm check 6 months afdter last immiticide injection to confirm elimination of heartworms.

He also explained the clinic’s preferred HW preventative – Advantage multi – a topical application, (imidacloprid for fleas which Turbo does not have + moxidectin, the HW preventative, which is supposedly absorbed through the skin). I didn’t even realize they had a topical for HW. I told him I would rather not use an insecticide for fleas that he didn’t need. He said alternatives (such as heartguard) could be used but may not be as effective, in his opinion. I then mentioned that I recalled hearing about a “slow kill” method. He seemed a little stunned, and said that that method was actually more dangerous, wasn’t as reliable and it could take much longer if it even worked. I again expressed my concern about all the toxins, especially the arsenic/immiticide.

He didn’t think the trembling episode was HW related at all, although he didn’t offer any real explanation for it. Also he thought it would be fine for him to go ahead and get the rabies vaccination, or I could wait for the outside lab’s bloodwork results in a day or 2. I told him we would definitely wait.
—–

Here’s where I need advice;

Do you think I should get another HW test from another vet along with a second opinion?

Should I consider a slow kill method vs the clinic’s protocol?

Should I use heartguard or another ivermection based HWP vs the advantage multi, moxidectin based? Is their any other moxidectin based without other insecticides included? Is there another one more effective than the others? Are there any other HWP’s using some different drug altogether?

Should I continue to put on hold the rabies vaccination? if I put off more than a few more days, then he will be past due again, will probably only be able to get the 1 yr vs the 3 yr, and would have to be re-vaccinated again in a year.

Does anyone have anyone input about what could cause the trembling episode?

Any other opinions/advice?

———–

Update: The vet called with the bloodwork results. Everything looked “perfectly normal” he especially stressed the liver and kidney values, the blood cell and platelet counts and values, thyroid, and some other things I don’t recall now, I don’t have a copy yet. What a big relief on that much. I had some more questions to ask, such as should he have X-rays, ultrasound, etc. He could, but didn’t think neccesary nor did he advise it. I asked about the microfilariae count, he said a fair amount? Somewhere I had read about the 3 classes of HW infections. I asked what “class” his condition would be, he replied definitely class 1, which I saw described somewhere (going by memory)as asymptomatic to mild, no radiologic signs, nor signs of anemia. He still encouraged going ahead with the rabies vacination, and strongly urged getting started on the advantage multi soon. But he seemed much more amenable now to a slow kill method, maybe along with doxycycline, before I even asked again, even seemed to kind of go along with it, though he still didn’t recomend it, he still recomended their protocol. He also expressed concern that these worms may be resistant to ivermectin, and it could take a very long time to kill them using it. So he again really encouraged using their Advantage multi. I guess this multi is a new thing.

——-

Any advice/opinions would be very much appreciated, as I’m feeling lost and very worried over this. I think my questions still remain the same after getting the blood work results.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[weezerweeks]

My vet and I are trying to decide on the joint supplement for my yorkie,he’s been having a little trouble with his luxating petalla even though it’s only a 1. I showed him the mercola joint supplement that I have and he’s concerned about the Bromelain because it has been know to cause trouble with the digestive lining. Have any of u ever heard of this? I have a super smart and animal loving vet,his 7 dogs go to work with him everyday,2 golden doodles,1 lab,3carin terriers, and one westie.you should see him driving down the highway it is quite funny!

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[Codex]

I’m looking for recommendations on probiotics, oils, digestive enzymes and glucosamine & chondroitin supplements. I have a 20 pound dog with no known allergies besides possibly vaccine(s).

So far this is what I’ve picked up for my dog but I’m looking for advice. I’m new to supplements. Any and all advice is welcome!

Digestive enzymes–I got really yucky smelling digestive enzymes but apparently the smell is normal. I already opened the bottle so I guess I’m stuck with that. I haven’t used any yet…I’m letting the bottle air out.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-digestive-enzymes-180-tabs

Coconut oil–Planning on adding 2 tsp every day to morning meal. Right now she’s getting 1/4 tsp.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-organic-certified-organic-extra-virgin-coconut-oil-54-oz-1-53-kilograms-solid-oil?otherSize=SWF035

GLUCOSAMINE & CHONDROITIN–Natrol Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM (She’s going to get 2 tablets daily for the first seven days. After that she’s going to get 1 tablet a day.)
http://www.natrol.com/p-50-glucosamine-chondroitin-msm.aspx

Probiotic–Lifeway Kefir–About a tablespoon added to meal every other day.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Codex.
• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Codex.

[weezerweeks]

My vet gave me samples of platinum performance complete joint care today. Has anyone used this. It’s in a powder form. I showed him my bottle of mercola joint tablets and he said they looked good but he wanted me to try platinum.my little yorkie had to have injection today and meta am for 4 days. He has luxating patella. Just wondered if anyone had used these.

[InkedMarie]

I use human joint supplement from SwansonVitamins.com. It’s called joint mobility plus. It has all kinds of stuff that is important for joints. Salmon oil is also good. I assume you’re feeding grainfree; am I correct?

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[crazy4cats]

Yes, Mom2Cavs, that is what I dislike about ordering online also. I like to check the bags for tears and expiration dates before I purchase. It’s so difficult to return food online if there is a problem. You most likely just have to “eat” the costs. Plus, it’s nice to support our local pet stores if possible. I have gotten some expired or close to expired supplements when ordering from Amazon. But, so far, I’ve had great luck ordering dog food from Amazon, Wag and Petco. I am going to be trying rocketpetz in the next week.

[Naturella]

I am so happy you are already seeing improvement in your boy, Fatcakes! 🙂
Good food, chews/treats, and supplements really do work wonders on our beloved pets from the inside! 🙂

Keep us posted on how his dandruff issue goes!

P.S. I am about to switch my Bruno to fish-based food in about a month or so, so good to know my apartment will smell like an aquarium as well, LoL!

[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by aquariangt.

[Mom2Cavs]

Ooohh….Cavaliers! I have 2 right now, older girls. Congratulations on your new baby. If it were me and I had another puppy I would probably feed Fromm Gold Puppy, or Wellness Small Breed Puppy. I also like all-life-stage foods like Annamaet, Fromm 4Star, Dr. Tim’s. I also top my dogs’ food with canned food for more variety and moisture. A good probiotic/enzyme supplement, a whole food vitamin/mineral, and omega 3’s in the form of fish oil are some things to consider in the future, as well. I also admit I used to feed Greenies and Dentastix but discovered the ingredients aren’t that great and they can be a choking hazard, as well. Now, I like to use The Honest Kitchen Beams. They are dried fish skins. I’m sure others will have recommendations for you soon. 🙂

[Fatcakes]

This is great, thank you all so much. My house smells like an aquarium now but totally worth it. We have gotten rid of all treats, etc that have chicken, and also are switching the cats to Orijin. Origin and THK treats, with some egg, pumpkin, sardines, and coconut oil rotated in here and there as well (not all of this has been implemented yet for the sake of his digestive tract and my carpet). I don’t think he has a fish allergy as the only improvement I saw was after starting the fish oil supplement. Love the spreadsheet idea, too! He loves his Beam treats and new food. I can’t wait to see if this fixes the dandruff. I swear his fur is already getting softer…

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[Shasta220]

Sounds like you’ve already got some ideas for foods to try – I don’t know that many brands personally, so I usually say it’s safe to go with 4-5 star brands.

As for the skin. I wouldn’t expect a bath to help much, as soaps tend to strip the coat even more, unless they’re medicated and designed for dry skin (when my dog is super dry, I use an oil-based organic shampoo. Sometimes it’s almost too much though, and my dog doesn’t feel clean at all).

Some things to look into: possibly tests for food allergies? As almost all skin problems have something to do with food, sadly. It could be chicken, grains, tomatoes, fish, the list goes on. I’d try getting him on coconut oil – organic extra virgin cold pressed, about 1tbsp per 30lbs. That stuff has been known as a miracle worker around these parts! Salmon oil is very good, too. Keep that up, 🙂

Fiber additions – most people add a big spoonful of pumpkin (canned is fine) to their dogs food. If there’s no improvement in his morning routine, then possibly try some probiotic supplements as well.

[Fatcakes]

Thank you so much! How often do you rotate your boy’s food? I just got back from the pet store(s) and have a bag of Orijen Six Fish. I’m blending that with the Innova Prime to switch him over and will continue the fish oil supplement and research. I would like him to have more than 18% fat but we’ll see how he does after getting off the Innova first. I’m very interested in the Victor as well. I hadn’t heard of the Honest Kitchen until just now, and it looks like Beams are sold at the same store I just got the Orijen. haha fish-averse hubby is about to rue the day I found this website. 😀
Thanks again!

[Sheltie_Pom]

I am considering the option of feeding/supplementing my dogs with homemade food and I was wondering what all meats/veggies do I need to give them to make sure they get all the right nutrients.

BTW: I have 4 dogs, a almost 3 year old 21 ib Sheltie female (Rosie, a 1 and 3 month old 20 ib male Sheltie (Mickey), a 4 week old male Sheltie (Shiloh, he is still with his mom.) and a 5 week old Pomeranian male (I won’t have him for 3 more weeks).

Thanks everyone.

• This topic was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sheltie_Pom.

[Fatcakes]

Hi all. In December I got a healthy, active, 9 yr old male German Shepherd. he was eating Pro Plan Sport, the 30/20 kind. He had terrible gas so I switched him slowly to Innova Prime Chicken and Turkey. He has developed dry, flaky skin along his back and sides. Bathing actually aggravated his skin terribly. He is now also supplemented with fish oil (for people), 1200-2400 mg per day. I’ve seen improvement from that, but he’s still really dandruffy along his back. I’m brand loyal to Innova as that’s what we fed during the first China food disaster; my in-laws pets sickened and died on vet-prescribed food, but our pets were fine.
What should I try next? He is extremely active and lean; he doesn’t need any calorie reduction. He could use more fiber in his diet, I think, as sometimes it takes him a long time to finish his morning constitutional. I’m open to trying a different brand of food, although I have a hard time believing he’s not getting what he needs from the Innova Prime. I’m also open to mixing different foods if that would help. What do you think?

[Lori]

I was wondering for those who know about homemade dog foods if you could comment on the Puppy Stew recipe? A lot cocker owners make this for their good. Is it nutritionally sound, or would their need to be extra supplements added in? Thanks!

http://www.cockersinneed.com/puppystew.html