[Kristin C]

Lucky? 1 dog going from 10 ticks per week to none, and 1 dog never having ticks living here is lucky? I think there is more to tick and flea infestation than is being discussed. If I am brave enough next year I will completely omit the Advantix and just go with feeding a raw diet plus B-vitamins and see what happens. I will say that I have almost completely eliminated one of my dogs heart murmurs by feeding her raw heart, so I do believe a lot has to do with diet.

[C4D]

Hi Kristen C,

It’s an interesting theory. I do think a healthy immune system could be a great help. All 3 of the dogs @ my house eat identical diets, including fresh and raw as 1 meal per day. The only dog that got ticks this year is the one who insists on going through all of the tall grass in a known tick area. I think you might have gotten lucky, but I’d love to hear what you do & the subsequent results next year. 🙂

[Kristin C]

C4D-I was just asking a question about the possibility of the immune system being a factor. I actually live in Salem, CT, Lyme tick heaven. We live on 2 1/2 acres where my dogs have regular free roam in the woods. One of them (6 yrs) has had 10 ticks a week in the past (with Advantix). Since switching her to raw food, plus B-vitamins, even with a half dose of Advantix I can’t remember the last time she had a tick. My younger dog (2 yrs) has never had a tick, and she has spent a considerable time roaming the woods, and she is on the same raw food, B-vitamins, half dose of Advantix. I was worried a few months ago about fleas since they were both itchy, but I added more chicken to their raw food diet and that solved it.

[C4D]

Shawna, I completely agree with you on DE. It also works for fleas in the home if dusted on the carpeting (very gently, using a mask) and especially in the baseboards.

Red, I actually agree with you in the comment on tall grass. I live in an area that is “crawling with ticks”. Of my 3 dogs, only 1 gets any ticks on him and I literally have to drag him out of the tall grass near a wetland that is notorious for ticks.

I don’t agree with you and skeptvet on most issues, no surprise that aimee does. I’ve used many of the “natural” treatments and they do work as DogFoodie and AquarianGT have said and have found that they work quite well, including using a natural treatment for Demodex mange and the dog has been clear for 10 months now.

Kristin C, I do think the immune system might possibly help fleas, but ticks just seem to attach if the dog is in the right place at the right time. However, if you’re using Advantix, even at a half dose, that would negate your assumption as you are still using a pesticide to curb a possible problem. You would have to not use it to see if it works.

[Kristin C]

Hi Ella,

Read up some more on homemade raw. Is your recipe boneless? Chix breast or thighs? No gizzards or hearts? Liver ratio? How much fish oil for the weight of your dog? Vitamin E? I am not sure canola oil is necessary. Your parsley and veg ratio is probably fine with the pumpkin and yogurt.

Keep in mind that variety is key for the long term. You will need to add more proteins than chicken.

[Kristin C]

Is it possible the immune system of the dog contributes to the frequency of flea and/or tick problems? No one seems to have mentioned that in this post so just wondering. I feed my dogs B-complex vitamins with their raw food, plus am currently giving them each 1/2 Advantix dose every 8 weeks and there has not been one tick on either of them this summer. No fleas either as far as I can tell. I think they are both pretty healthy is my point, and I am considering taking them off Advantix completely next season, keeping up with the B-complex, liver treats and raw food.

[Alex p]

Many proactive, integrative, and holistic veterinarians have long recognized the nutritional drawbacks to commercially available dry pet food.

Most popular dry formulas don’t contain clean ingredients – those approved for human consumption – and they aren’t biologically balanced for obligate carnivores (cats), and scavenging carnivores (dogs).

However, in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, we saw the production of better quality dry foods that contained more diverse ingredients. Coincidentally, during this same period, pet owners began to see the benefits of home-cooked diets because they could control the quality of the food they fed their dog or cat.

Although improvements to commercial dry pet foods addressed some of the quality control issues — and began to address the biological appropriateness of ingredients – they didn’t address one important fact. Companion animals were still consuming an entirely dead, inorganic, over-processed diet that was extruded and cooked at very high temperatures, rendering it devoid of any of the health benefits of living foods.

[Ella S]

After reading lots of things about the benefits of raw I finally want to switch him over.
I was thinking this would be a good recipe:
8 oz of chicken
1 oz of liver
1 fish oil capsule
2 tsp canola oil
1 tbsp dried parsley
8 oz of mixed veggies

This is the daily amounts for my dog.

[Janice M]

Have you rated Sojos complete Raw, grain free? I just tried the turkey recipe and my dog liked it and it looks “healthy”.

[chris]

zcRiley- thanks for the reply!

I don’t really feed my dog anything raw, on a very rare occasion i’ll give him raw pieces of chicken breast or beef cubes, but that is like maybe twice out of the year. I cook everything I give him, mostly into stews or soup like foods. I use everything as a topping for his dry kibble. For example I just had done Venison cooked and pureed with spinach, apples, sweet potato. I usually make a huge mixing bowl of it all and then put it into containers and freeze it and grab one container at a time out when needed. He gets about 2 cups a day over his dry kibble.

I have several recipes made up I’ll be making. I was just wondering about squirrel since i’m tempted on going out squirrel hunting a lot this year. I was concerned mostly because I have been told they’re super high in grease and oil contents. I appreciate the reply though, thanks a ton!

[Angeline H]

I have a chihuahua w similar allergies that started around same age. She was on Blue Buffalo Life Source chkn/brown rice puppy formula and was doing well on it. Since she was gaining weight, Dr. advised transition to adult. BB Life Source ckn/rice:Was fine for a while, then allergies started-thought it was caused by her food. Had her tested for allergies via blood draw sample. Result: allergy to dust mites, fleas, and molds. But not the dog food. Great environmental improvements were made, along w an Rx for sublingual allergy gtt Tx.
Sx subsided. 2+ months to go. Still have to use Benadryl prn. She still has mild allergenic Sx. Which Dr. Thinks may be from Ckn sensitives causing IBS. Being managed w probiotics and Liquid salmon oil also helps both the IBS and any minor itchiness. In short, the allergenic blood test is best. Sublingual drops better than injections.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been fostering pugs the past six years and they all eat the same food in differing amounts depending on whether they need to gain, maintain or lose weight. One of the vets mentioned weight loss anywhere from 2-5% per month was acceptable. My personal dogs even eat high fat raw foods but still maintain their shape with a tapered waist and abdominal tuck, visible last rib or two.

[pugmomsandy]

I do feed a mixture. It can be anything – kibble, dehydrated cooked, freeze dried raw, canned food and frozen raw. I don’t have to watch calcium and phosphorus though. You can try adding some fat calories such as some type of fish oil or coconut oil. There’s also a granular food made by Abady that has rice and it has around 800 calories a cup. Raw food, especially the fattier meats added to his kibble might help keep him satisfied a little longer. There are also canned foods that are high in fat and calories. Have you looked at Core canned foods?

[Jenn H]

Does anyone feed their dogs a diet of kibble and canned/raw/dehydrated?
I have large breed dogs that I like to supplement their dry when the weather gets cold to keep their weight up.
My real.concern is my puppy. He’s 4 months old. GSD. Approx 30 lbs. I know I have to keep his calcium at 1.5% max. Because of that I am having a problem finding the right food.
He acts like he’s starving to death even though he gets 3 3/4 cups fed over 4 meals. Right now he’s on Wellness Core Grain Free Puppy.

I’m looking for either a food that will satisfy his appetite or something I can supplement/replace some of his kibble with that will allow me to stay within the calcium guidelines.
While I am not opposed to canned, raw or dehydrated, I cannot feed strictly those types of foods.
I would also prefer a NON grain free food. Unless a dog has allergies I know they actually need some grains. Plus it seems that grain free has far more carbs than non grain free.

I appreciate any suggestions.
Thank you.

[crazy4cats]

Yes, there are two brands listed in E.C. that include frozen raw foods.

[zcRiley]

Yes, dogs can “have” wild squirrel. However, I think the pet food companies aren’t taking that exotic road just yet. It’s similiar to rabbit, which is already hard to find.

Dogs wouldn’t go out and specifically hunt squirrel; but if they decided to take a few bites of one, it won’t kill them. If your dog has a healthy immune system, they’ll survive through the rare intestinal parasite they may acquire. If you hunt it, deep freeze the squirrel meat (like you do any wild game meat) for at least 30 days to kill any parasites/larvae. You didn’t mention if you prepare it raw, dehydrated or cooked to your pet. You can make Kentucky Burgoo for them, stews make great toppers.

The proteins my pups got allergy tested for were as follows (no squirrel though!):
beef
buffalo
elk
goat
kangaroo
lamb
llama
pork/ham
rabbit
venison
yak

[Katrina D]

If you look under the editors choice recommended brands, there are a few raw frozen and freeze-dried formulas listed.

[Pitlove]

Nature’s Variety actually now makes the raw boost that they sell by itself so you can mix it in. I imagine its expensive to buy that + the food, but if your budget allows for it, you could certainly try that. Should be avaliable at Petco.

My dog is very picky and his favorite food by far is Fromm. And it’s also my favorite brand of food. If you can find a retailer (its going to be a small independantly owned shop) or buy online, I think Fromm is worth looking into. They don’t offer the raw boost however. Other brands that are now doing the whole raw boost thing are Natural Balance Wild Pursuit and Merrick Back Country.

[Kim S]

Hello Norene, I have a 9 yo yellow lab that has skin issues and found out wheat was her problem early on. A little over a year ago she began to scratch and bite herself to the point of being bloody and raw. I started researching and this is where I found DogFoodAdvisor. I have found many other sites that have helped too. I looked an environmental issues, allergies, flea/heart worm meds and food. My vet was not able to help much and I took to the internet. I found that grains can greatly effect a dog and we knew that wheat was a problem for her, I went grain free only to find that potatoes are a big fill in for them and she ended up with a widespread yeast infection. I did try raw but she ended up being sensitive to chicken and lamb so that didn’t work. Here’s what helped and I highly recommend to anyone with skin issues. We did a Alternative Sensitivity Test by Glacier Peak Holistics, all done by mail. That gave me a wealth of information and confirmed all my suspects. She is now on Orijen 6 Fish and doing wonderful. I’ve also added a daily probiotic, digestive enzymes, coconut oil to her meals. I have nothing to do with Glacier Peak but there are other companies that perform these tests and sell the same products. I also have found very informative websites such as Dr Karen Becker, Only Natural Pet and obviously you’ve found Dogfood Advisor. Beware of the flea and heartworm products, they can cause a number of issues and there are natural remedies. House hold cleaning products, laundry soaps, fabric softners, fragrance sprays and such can effect your dog. I now have a green home as much as possible. Good luck and hope you find the cure. I can tell you that it will be up to you and not your vet and I do like my vet very much.

[Shawna]

Hi Paul R,

They now know that dogs with kidney disease actually need good amounts of protein in the diet as it helps with the blood flow (aka GFR) and therefore keeping the blood clean. The exception to that rule is when the dog has high amounts of protein in the urine as that is a sign of inflammation of the kidneys. The protein should be lowered until the reason for the inflammation has been found and addressed — possibly a bacterial infection, stones, food sensitivity (they know in humans that gluten can cause increased proteinuria – I would assume reactions to foods can be the same in dogs). Here’s some data on that “A gluten-free diet induced in 75% of the cases a parallel improvement in these abnormal immunological data. Mean proteinuria values were found to be significantly decreased after 6 months of the diet and a reduction was also observed in microscopic hematuria.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2311308

May not be the case with your pup but I think it is often overlooked as a possibility.

My dog had kidney disease from birth and lived nine years. I fed her a raw diet but once in a while I was running in and out or really sick for a few days and would give her some kibble. Each time I gave her kibble I had to deal with the consequences of doing so for several days after. I would highly advise against ANY kibble, even prescription. The new prescription Science Diets are chicken and beef based and look appealing. If you can’t home cook and don’t want to feed raw it would be something to try while you are trying to deal with the proteinuria. I would also give a high quality omega 3 fish oil as it is anti-inflammatory etc. Another to try is organic (must be organic) turmeric (the spice). Turmeric is anti-inflammatory as well as anti-fibrotic, which are both helpful for the failing kidneys. Start with a small amount and build. Most dogs do well with it but my Audrey didn’t seem to tolerate it well. 🙁

Don’t give any more flea or tick meds or heartworm preventatives. Also no more vaccines. Some states will give rabies exemptions for pets with life threatening diseases. Take advantage of that if your state does.

It also helps to give reverse osmosis filtered water. There are so many impurities in most tap water. Always have water available. I would also look at a good probiotic and prebiotic. The right ones can help clear BUN etc from the blood which will help your pup feel better. This is called “nitrogen trapping” which was apparently discovered and coined by Iams researchers. I used a probiotic called Garden of Life Primal Defense (a human product) and a prebiotic called Fiber 35 Sprinkle Fiber (also human). I’ve heard that Sprinkle Fiber is no longer made but it was simply 100% pure acacia fiber. Any source of acacia fiber will work. Not all fibers work, some make things worse. I found this out the hard way. The one product I would not do without is made by Standard Process and is called Canine Renal Support. It helps in many many ways.

I hope something I’ve wrote is helpful for you and your sweet puppy!! Let me know if I can clarify anything or answer any questions etc.

Prayers to you both!!

[Tom D]

Thanks for replying, Pitlove. The only reason i have been going with the raw boost is because that is my dogs favorite part. He will eat all the raw bits out first….He takes a big scoop in his mouth walks away from the bowl and then spits the food out and eats the raw bits. Once all the raw bits are gone he eats the rest. I did actually try the Salmon Meal & Turkey Meal Formula but I could only find they small bags and my dog eat that bag in almost a week. Any other food recommendations?

[Pitlove]

Hi Tom- Welcome to the site first off. If you like Nature’s Variety there is no reason not to try the Salmon just because there is no raw boost. The raw boost doesn’t really give enough of a benefit for it to make much of a difference and there is often inconsistancy with how much raw boost you get per bag. EVO is a good food, but since being given up by NaturaPet has gone to Proctor&Gamble and now Mars. For some that is a complete turn off as they are worried about recalls and quality changing etc.

[Tom D]

Let me start of by saying i have a hound mix dog, not sure what breed he actually is. He’s about 2 years old. For the first year, he was eating Blue Buffalo/ Wilderness. I was changing between chicken and salmon every few months. But after about a year eating that he lost all interest and would barley eat his food. I then started giving him Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost Grain-Free. He has tried the chicken and duck/turkey so far. But recently i have heard a lot of stuff about EVO.

I have tried doing some research on EVO but the only useful website was this one. What dog food would you prefer.
My dog really liked the salmon BB food and any fish treat i have ever given him, but Nature’s Variety does not have a fish flavor in the raw boost.

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost Grain-Free VS EVO?

What experiences do you have with either on of these food?

[Peggy]

Red, these symptoms – the raw areas on the skin – are new. Only a couple of weeks.
As I said above, the vet has a dermatologist on staff. He is Board Certified. At least that’s what it says on the wall.

[InkedMarie]

Feeding canned is probably going to make weight loss harder. You’ll have to weigh it out so you don’t overfeed, once you figure out a food. What about ground raw?

[Peggy]

The vet recommended a medicated, anti-itch shampoo. You have to lather her up really good, leave it on for up to 10 minutes, then rinse thoroughly.

I must say, since doing so this afternoon, they haven’t been scratching much at all. (I used it on Tebow, as well). I have to do this twice per week until the raw areas have cleared up.

[Andrea L]

Wanted to add, its also a plus that they add tumeric, oregano leaf, coconut oil, salmon oil, flax seed and vitamin E and eggs with shell. I still will add occasionally homemade chicken bone broth, coconut oil, and organic yogurt. I give one of the above with the raw meat and sometimes a raw egg with shell.

[Andrea L]

Hello, I just found this forum and wanted to add my experience with All Provide. I have 8 dogs all sizes and recently switched to All Provide. I have used A+ Answers but its way to expensive and personally, I did not like it and my dogs prefer other raw over it. I have tried a local raw distributor, ordered from a raw on line store who was pricey and used Blue Ridge Beef mostly with their own label and I tried Blue Ridge Beef. Blue Ridge is a tad cheaper in the beef and chicken than All provide but is not Human Grade A. I found this to be quality and the company is outstanding! I have been to their facility but did not take a tour because I did not feel the need. They bring their dogs to work. You see more dogs than people and they all look stunning! Very healthy and the staff is so friendly and goes over and beyond. When I fed Blue Ridge, it smelled very gamey where the All Provide does not. It looks and smells fresh and smells like food for humans. I am more into feeding raw protein, bone and guts but found that they only put 15% of the veggies,bean and fruit mixture and the rest is meat. My dogs love it! I am looking forward to more protein options in the future. I mostly beef and rotate turkey and some chicken. I have fed goat, venison, duck, tripe and quail. I am very pleased with this product and encourage anyone to go tour it or just try it. I do have to give the majority of my dogs kibble for one meal as I can not afford to feed all raw but wish I could. 4 out of the 8 are getting all raw and the others get half and half. All of my dogs seem healthier and look better eating the raw even for one meal. I am not concerned with grass fed as my dogs weren’t getting that in their premium kibble plus I could never afford it. I feel this quality is better than most choices out there and the price is also very affordable. Give it a try, you might love it like we do!

[Peggy]

I joined the forum over a year ago for my 2 dogs Tebow (Jack Russell Terrier) and LadyBug (Shepherd/Lab mix). They were both overweight and experiencing food sensitivities.

Upon advice I upgraded their food (from Pedigree). Blue Buffalo, made them sick, so I switched them to Pure Balance on which they’ve been doing very well. Problem is, PB does not offer a large enough variety of can food, so while staying with PB grain-free dry, I’ve switched them to Wellness and Nature’s Recipe grain-free cans. They love both, especially the stews.

Now comes the problem…….. !
Tebow is again itching and scratching incessantly (NO fleas), and shedding horribly. Also chewing at his paws. I noticed a week or more ago that he’d developed a raw area on his chest.
LadyBug has a series of raw areas on her lower back, backend, and upper tail. REALLY raw.

Now, Tebow’s seems to be healing up, while Lady’s was getting worse, so I took her to the vet this morning. After skin scrapes, flea combing (no fleas or flea dirt), and 2 blood tests, the verdict is…. food allergies! UUGGHH!

The vet said that ‘perhaps’ I should decrease their beef and chicken intake and feed more duck and venison. Also decrease their twice-per-week salmon meal to just once per week because her skin seemed oily (she was dirty, as I had not bathed her in a couple of weeks).

ALL of this was preceded by “perhaps” with no real clear instruction. Soooooooooo….
I am again here asking for feeding suggestions. Additionally, both are still overweight, Tebow is 5 lbs over, and Lady is 8 or 9 lbs over.

OK – hit me with it. And thanks in advance.

[losul]

Hi again. Sorry for the tardy reply, all.

I’ve some preference for feeding a dog a majority of ruminant meats overall with a lesser amount of poultry overall in my dogs diet, provided the the beef (or other ruminant) is coming from a good, properly raised and fed source. I think the overall fats balance out better that way, and without using much vegetable fats. And as long as I can afford it!!

I wouldn’t necessarily say that beef heart is better, nothing against poultry
hearts, much depends on the source, and for just some supplemental or small batch
use, chicken hearts are handier to use than beef hearts!

I had kind of a bad experience the first time I bought beef hearts a few years ago.(from a different, conventionally raised source, feedlot) I thought never again! They were oversized and completely encased in a way overly tough and thick membrane and excessive suet.. the inside was as bad, and not at all cleaned-gristle, connective tissue,vessels, excessive suetetc., and frankly, they looked old, grayish, and tough. It took alot of effort to clean them enough to suit me, way too much effort, and ended up with alot of waste. It wasn’t worth it, and was a good while before I ever tried beef hearts again. In hindsight some of that gristle
and connective tissue, etc. , wouldn’t have hurt to include anyway!

Where I’ve been getting them the last few times, the outside only has a partial and thin membrane and little suet fat, are very fresh, and the butcher near completely cleans the insides for me, I have not much left to do except cut them up! And I get them for only $1.49/lb cleaned weight! I get good clean liver and kidneys 1.29/lb the same place. I guess not many people around here want to eat heart or organ meats! But the regular and lean cuts of beef are every bit as expensive as anywhere else! So when I make a beef batch I’ve been using the hearts for up to 1/2 of the total muscle meat amount. It equals a good savings vs using all lean human prefered cuts for all the muscle meat. In making a full balanced recipe, I can’t count the heart as organ meat, I still add the small amounts of liver and kidney, and I won’t press the heart amount any beyond 1/2 of the muscle meat count. They say too much heart can cause loose stools, never had that problem or with any any food, but the extra heart I’m using helps to keep some beef in the diet at more an affordable price for me! If one were to use all heart for the muscle meat though, there would very
likely be some deficit somewhere in the nutrition to look for and abundances of others, and I wouldn’t ever advise using overly excessive amounts. Also dogs handle cholesterol differently than humans, but heart, liver and some other organs do contain a disproportionately large amount of cholesterol, something to keep in mind. Don’t over do it!.

Faith, so your dog is about 60lbs. BTW, I believe my dog is 1/2 boston terrier and
1/2 bull terrier of some sort, probably staffy or pit, I’ve got a compact model though,
only about 40 lbs. That’s great that your feller found a loving home with you! I
would assume that his regular diet is around 1150 calories give or take? For your
purposes and for now as supplemental only, yeah I would limit the chicken hearts to
NO more than about 3 or 4 ounces. at least if and until until you are more prepared too see to it that the diet retains balance with your additions. Here, raw Chicken hearts show more calories and fat than the beef hearts, raw. (you might have to enter the serving size) but 100 grams chick hearts (about 3.5 ounces) has about 150 calories. add to that maybe a teaspoon of fish oil a day, an egg a couple times a week, and youre already pushing nearly 20% of unbalanced supplemental calories in his diet, and that then isn’t allowing for any unbalanced treats!

The more things you would add if you do so, or if you go with homemade meals, the more attention you are going to need pay to keeping nutritional balance. And you should really
balance out the extra phosphorus you are adding as it is, with calcium supplement.

If using finely ground eggshell, add 1/2 teaspoon to 2/3 t for each 1 lb of meat, organs, egg etc used. Calcium is very important in a dog’s diet, overall calcium in the diet should at least equal the amount of phosphorus, but also never going more than 2X the amount of phosphorus. a ratio of between 1:1 to 2:1. Most commercial diets I think fall between a ratio of 1.2:1 and 1.6:1, so there would likely be enough buffer already there in your commercial diet to cover your extra phosporus additions, but if me, I would still add at least a bit of calcium anyway.

raw chicken hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/664/2

raw beef hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3464/2

I hear ya on financial bias. dogaware.com is a great site with lots of useful info, some is a little outdated, as Mary Strauss is not so active anymore, but she has nothing to sell as far as I know. and has generously accumulated a ton of good info/articles there.

I prefer a pump bottle for fish oil, so I use Iceland Pure sardine/anchovy, I keep it in the fridge and get a fresh bottle every 3 months. This brand already has some mixed tocopherols in it (vit E), but I still add some additional E in my dog’s diet.

I use some veggies, fruits, and even some select grains, but never in abundance. I
don’t know if you’ve ever heard the old idiom “as fit as a butcher’s dog” I don’t
think the typical old time butcher fed his dog an abundance of starchy plant
material!!! I also still use 25% commercial kibble, haven’t ever been able to get away from it completely for various reasons.

Lastly, I might not be around here to write much anymore, but as you can see from the replies to your thread(and other threads) there are so many awesomely helpful people, good people, on site to help with questions you have, or even just support!! And even if they don’t have answers right away, they have also proven to be excellent researchers!!!

G’night everyone!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[Don P]

Is there an Editor’s Choice for Raw food?

[Kim J]

So, I just became a member after considering adding a dehydrated food to my dog’s raw diet. After choosing the 7 dehydrated foods that received 5 stars on this site, I went to the Editor’s choice section to see if that would narrow my choice down even further. Eureka! Wellness Core Air was on the Editors choice list. I clicked on the link to buy it, and then also did a google search to try to figure out how much food this two pound bag would make toward the daily requirements of my three great danes.

And that’s when I came across some horrible reviews on Amazon.com from people who cited to the inclusion in allegedly all of Wellness’ products of green tea extract and underlying research indicating that green tea extract is toxic for dogs. Links were provided to publications and were active and did lead to actual publications – one in 2009 and another in 2011. Granted both indicated that the toxicity was seen in fasted dogs, but still.

So, my question is this – how do I reconcile these papers with the reviews on this site? Do the reviewers of this site have information to the contrary?

[C4D]

Hi Faith,

Losul did give you some good information, as always. The others have as well. 🙂

Heart is technically considered a muscle meat. It is loaded in natural CoQ10 as well as a host of vitamins. Giving any dog fresh food will make for a healthier dog. I do feed mine a combination of fresh and kibble, simply because I have too many pounds of dogs at my house, otherwise it would all be fresh/raw. Here’s another link from Primal, a reputable raw food company confirming that heart is a muscle meat, even though it’s considered an organ.

http://blog.primalpetfoods.com/post/19313616133/muscle-meat-vs-organ-meat

Another raw website explaining what the organs are:

http://dogsdinner2.webs.com/offalororgan.htm

Good Luck with your dog! I wish you the best! 🙂

[crazy4cats]

Apparently for raw feeders heart is considered a muscle meat along with gizzards and tongue?
http://www.aplaceforpaws.com/blog/what-exactly-constitutes-organ-meat

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-organ-meat-is-important-for-the-raw-fed-dog/

YUM YUM!!! 😉

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by crazy4cats.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Faith G-
I was just curious. Have you had the dog for a long time and he just developed the murmur? Or do you think he came to you with the murmur? I guess I’m just wondering if it is something that can happen over time or if it is usually a congenital condition. One of my cats came to me with a very slight heart murmur when he was a kitten and it has not got any worse at all and he is 5 years old now. I hope that is going to be the case for your pup also.

Raw Heart Proponents-
Faith mentioned that she was going to feed chicken hearts. Losul mentioned Beef Heart. In your opinions, is one better than the other? I have bought both, but always wondered if it made a difference.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by crazy4cats.

[losul]

Hi Faith. Count me in as another raw heart proponent, I too think it’s a great idea! Raw beef heart is a major staple in my dogs diet. I get from a rural meat market that slaughters and butchers their own locally raised, state inspected beef. It’s not 100% grass fed beef, but pastured on grass and supplemented, especially in the winter, with alfalfa, clover, lespedeza hays and minimal grain. But it’s NOT the typical mass produced feed lot beef that comes from most supermarkets. Clean and lean it only costs me $1.49/lb.

Feed heart and you wouldn’t have any need to supplement with CoQ10! Because in addition to the great source of taurine, heart is also one the very best natural sources of CoQ10! Like the taurine, if you cook it, you will also destroy some of the CoQ10. Would also lose much of most the B vitamins by cooking.

If your dog eats say 1000 calories a day, and you are feeding an otherwise balanced diet, you should be able to substitute about 130 of those calories daily with 4 ounces beef heart daily, and not worry much about throwing the entire diet out of balance without other supplementation. It would help to add some calcium though even with that little bit of addition, as heart is also very high in phosphorous. 4 ounces beef heart has about 250 mg phosphorous, and only very minimal calcium.

I also would reccomend some omega 3 fish oils in the diet, not sure why it would need be krill oil though, unless it’s for the high concentration of astaxanthin?

[Faith G]

The vet who heard the murmur isn’t a cardiac specialist, I took him to get neutered and that’s when they heard it. The doctor who is doing the echo in a week is a specialist. I am going to get a second opinion, although I have no doubt he has a murmur, he is very mucus-y sounding in his breathing every once in a while, and has a hard time taking full deep breaths. I have no issue with waiting until the echo before giving him supplements, it is only a week. I just don’t have a lot of experience with vitamins, or raw food, I am just doing some personal research to see if there is anything more I can do besides giving him heavy medication that they will probably prescribe after the echo. I have already spoke with my vet about CoQ10 and fish oils, he said I can try them, although he told me to be careful with coq10 because he didn’t know the recommended doses.

[Faith G]

Thank you guys, I appreciate it. He’s not on medication yet because he hasn’t gotten an echo on his heart. I have that scheduled for the next week. I’m not that sold on raw diets, mostly because I’d feel like their never getting enough nutrients or something. Either way, I would be stupid to not try whatever I can to help my boy. I’ve heard CoQ10 helps with heart health, and talked to my vet about it and he’s iffy on it. Anyone ever used CoQ10 and had any negative effects or positive ones?

[DogFoodie]

I second Jo’s recommendation! Raw heart would be wonderful for your dog. Heart is a muscle meat, so it can be given liberally.

[Jo R]

Raw heart is rich in taurine which is good for some heart issues. Cooking destroys the taurine. I buy whole beef hearts from my local supermarket (do need to order them as they are not a stock item) they are very inexpensive. I freeze them and when ready to use I let them partially thaw as they are much easier to cut up when firm. Taurine is important for issues like dialated myocardiopathy, not sure about heart murmur, but raw heart is a great cheap protein source and dogs love it. Hope this helps.

[C4D]

Susan,

I cook this often. It does smell just terrible while cooking, but it is supposed to be very good, I’m not sure that it will help the heart murmur though. 🙁

Faith,

I don’t know that the chicken hearts would do anything special to help, but feeding more fresh food (cooked or raw) is better overall for any dog. It’s not that expensive to buy some fresh meat and vegetables, cook it in a crock pot and add a bit of the mix to his kibble.

Here is Karen Becker’s link on heart murmurs just to give you some additional info:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/07/21/what-your-vet-looks-for-when-listening-to-your-dogs-heart.aspx

Good luck with your pup! 🙂

[C4D]

Hi Nick,

I tried to find the info on eggshells as we had this discussion on another forum. I can’t find it, but yes, they are essentially all calcium plus essential minerals and if you use the entire eggshell, it throws off the calcium/phosphorus ratio. That’s why you dry the egg and grind it up. I’m including a couple of other links regarding eggshell as they really need to be cooked to kill the possible bacteria, particularly if you store them.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/490605-eggshell-calcium-as-a-source-of-calcium/

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/custom/1145333/2

This is a good site for recipes as well. This is the calcium discussion:

http://dogaware.com/articles/dwcalcium.html

This is a cat site but it discusses the calcium/eggshell quantity:

http://www.holisticat.com/en/raw-feeding/2-esp.html

Good Luck with it! 🙂

[C4D]

Hi Cheryl,

I agree with Red in that many dogs are considered senior at 7 and it is always a good idea to run a complete blood panel, urinalysis, and a thorough checkup at that age, if you haven’t done it before. I run these on my dogs every year regardless of their age. He is also correct about the water, but really all dogs should be getting some fresh or canned food mixed in kibble to help keep them properly hydrated. At the very least, add warm water to the kibble to ensure that they are getting more water in their system. Exercise is very important for senior and all dogs as well.

I have had many dogs in my life and currently have several. I never feed them a “senior” dog food, even at almost 15 years of age (large breed). I have a nearly 11 year old dog Lab who has stellar panels and is very active with a daily 2 mile rigorous walk. She eats a combination of canned/moistened kibble and raw or fresh food daily. They all eat that combination. The biggest concern when they are older is to keep any extra weight off and that they aren’t having any health issues that diet would need to address. Senior dog food is really marketing. If you looked at all the senior dog formulas on the market you would find they vary all over the place in protein levels, fat and fiber. As senior dogs age, they metabolize protein less efficiently, so if you choose one that is lowering the protein, you would actually accelerate the reduction in muscle mass.

Keeping the weight off is very important and feeding a better food that doesn’t contain fillers will reduce the poop factor. You also need to feed them according to their “ideal” weight (not their current if they are overweight) and activity level. I feed slightly less than the recommended feeding guides on almost all foods. Even thought my dogs get daily brisk walks, I still consider their activity level “typical” on the DFA calculator. You need to count any treat calories in that daily total. You also need to get an accurate measuring cup for feeding.

Here’s the link to the DFA calculator:

/dog-feeding-tips/dog-food-calculator/

[Anonymous]

Is the dog on medication? I don’t understand why you think raw food is indicated? What does the vet that examined your dog recommend?
Heart murmurs are not that unusual, often they are benign and asymptomatic….just saying.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Daily brisk walks may help, check with your vet first.

[Faith G]

I have a two year old pit mix who just got diagnosed with a stage three murmur. I have heard about feeding raw hearts to get nutrients and minerals that they need that dry food doesn’t provide.

I wanted to know if adding raw hearts to a dry food diet will hurt or help. He’s eating 4health from tractor supply, which is seemingly the cheapest best rated food I can find. It has 4 stars on here. We have a limited income and I can’t particularly afford an entire raw diet. I want to do whatever is in my power to help him live a long life. He’s only two and I don’t want to worry about him dropping dead for just being excited that I came home, or anything like that.

If you have any information or experience with things like this or affordable supplements you could recommend please do!!!! Thank you so much.

[SdianeM M]

I have had so many issues with Sadie’s ears and yeast. I have tried many dog foods, and we are still trying them …. kibbles are a no-go for her, makes her problem a lot worse. Tried a commercial raw, but she got to where she would not eat it. Had her on a raw diet, but I am concerned about her receiving the proper nutrition.

I just purchased a 10b. bag from The Real Meat Company that is air dried. She likes it, it looks and sounds good, but I want to check with some of you and see if you have tried it. Also, possibly if you have even tried a similar product and had good results.

[Pitlove]

Hi- A lot of customers at the small pet store I work at use the Primal Raw Meaty Bones (they are beef marrow bones) and we have yet to have an issue. Perhaps trying the beef would be better. Them splintering like that is definitely concerning and I would not try to feed that bone again.

As for her arthritis, make sure she has comfortable things to lay on and I would definitely suggest a supplement like this one: http://www.chewy.com/dog/naturvet-arthrisoothe-gold-hip-joint/dp/48764
Also is she still getting excersized? Its kinda like how they tell humans that they need to continue to excersize to keep their joints from stiffening when they get older. I think continueing regular excersize for older dogs is a good idea to keep the joints mobile. Obviously only do what she can handle, but it should help. Was she a rescue? She seems young even for a pit to be having arthritis.

[Anonymous]

A word to the wise. Forget about it.
Example: /forums/topic/rectal-issues/
I stopped serving my dogs raw bones (or any bones) after 2 trips to the emergency vet due to them.
Not worth the risk, in my opinion.
Did you check the search engine? Example: /forums/search/bones/ Hope this helps.

[kathleen t]

Starting my 5 yr old blind pit on raw diet. I have started her out mixing the raw meat with her kibble. Yesterday I gave her a bone in chicken leg for the first time. She took the whole leg into her mouth and seemed to have some difficulty at first then got it situated where she was able to chew it and break the bone. Then she acted like she was afraid of it. She wouldn’t even go near it. I picked it up and put it in the fridge. This morning I decided to take the meat off the bone. I noticed that the bone had some sharp shards. I took all the bone out and gave her the meat. She ate the meat. I am concerned about how the raw bone had sharp shards. I see everyone says that chicken bones are safe but was this normal the way they broke? Also I see different things about beef bones. I see don’t feed them leg bones, but what marrow bones are safe for dogs?

Thanks for your help. She has the start of arthritis and getting her on a balanced raw diet is my goal in hopes that this will help her arthritis along with just keeping her as healthy as possible.

[Brie B]

Thanks guys! Lots to think about. Its good to know that the swab test isn’t that expensive. Its definitely cheaper than having my vet do it! (they would charge the $60 office visit fee plus the lab fee, which they said was $100. So its good to know theres other options than going through my vet).

I’m going to try the “new protein” thing first. Just to see whats up. My local store has some uncommon protein food with limited ingredients. That should help me start narrowing things down. Shes on salmon now, and although thats an uncommon allergy you just never know!

I found Darwins pre-prepared raw food to actually be fairly cheap considering. If it comes to that.

And thanks, Pitlove! (for the comment about taking her in with issues). Shes stranger aggressive, but a complete love if she knows you and is comfortable. Shes scared of everything, pretty much. Most of my work is trying to come up with a routine she can follow when meeting someone new that lets her get comfortable. Strangers reaching for her is still bad news tho (although why you would reach for a strange dog without asking is beyond me! One guy kept petting her when she was growling, I almost was going to body slam him to get him away “its ok, she’ll back down” uh….no she wont, you might get bit and then I’ll have to deal with my dog having a bite history! ugh). With her skin and ears flaring up it makes it difficult for her to feel comfortable. She was extremely reactive and aggressive for a month, and I took her to the vet and thats when we discovered her terrible ear infection and skin infection. Now that thats treated and shes back to her “cautious, but generally friendly” state I’m doing everything I can to help prevent flare ups. But her skin still looks like its covered in dime-sized flattened domes all over. And I discovered the metal on her collar was causing her neck rash. I definitely got such a wonderful grab bag of issues when I adopted her, shes lucky I love her so darned much 😉

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Brie B.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Brie B.