I have a 4yr old Shiloh shep, he’s on the raw diet for over 6 months now, he loves it, i love it as his teeth are white etc etc. He’s got, it looks like hot spots. I had him on EVO before and he never had hot spots. Vet says it’s his diet, he’s against raw diet. I’m thinking of switching him back to EVO but i love the raw diet and benefits of it. Vet gave me pills and it cleared up but came back and i’m not paying $150 for pills all the time. Think i should switch back? He’s eating Congo dinners – chicken, duck, lamb, rabbit. Also eating duck necks, duck feet and lamb necks.
Thoughts?
Hi panda –
I agree with NectarMom – allergy tests are not accurate. I think they’re just a waste of money, they often give false “positives.” If you really want to find out if a food is causing the reaction you should perform an elimination diet. If you’re interested in feeding raw that’s great because elimination diets are much easier to do with homemade foods than commercial foods like kibble (due to the inclusion of so many ingredients). What you would do is feed your dog a novel protein and novel carbohydrate (something your dog has never eaten before) for at least two months. Once the symptoms clear up (which they should if the issues are food related) you would gradually start introducing new ingredients one at a time and carefully monitoring your dog’s reaction to each ingredient. This way you can pick up on what ingredients elicit the allergic response. There’s a lot of information about elimination diets online and your vet may be able to walk you through the process.
I hadn’t heard of “Mrs. Meady’s” so I just checked out the website. It looks like they offer quality products but you’re going to need to research prior to feeding a “food” such as that. They aren’t balanced foods (just different organ meats and RMBs, some vegetables) and you’re going to need to be knowledgeable about your dog’s nutritional requirements to create a balanced diet from items such as these. There will be some supplementation necessary when not feeding a pre-balanced raw food. Dogaware.com is a great online resource and “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners.
Good Luck! 🙂
I work for a vet and even if you decide to do the allergy testing it is not 100% accurate and cost at my vet is $270. There is no perfect kibble out there and with Raw from my expierence my dogs cannot handle high fat Raw so we are going to try low fat Raw meat such as Rabbit and Young beef but we will not be adding any veggies due to my dogs right now are smelling of yeast more so than they ever have and from what I have heard from a long time Raw feeder CO is that some veggies such as carrot have sugar in it and that just feeds yeast. Its all trial and error and just doing research and learning what your dogs can tollerate.
I have noticed my 7 month old dog doing the same thing. It is so disheartening because I’ve fed what I thought to be good kibble, then switched to THK. I’ve noticed him chewing/licking his paw and you can tell because the redness of his skin sticks out like a sore thumb underneath his white short hair. I will be switching to raw here in a few weeks, got the freezer all stocked for a months supply. Hopefully it will help the issue, although I’m sure it could be worse, it’s just his white hair brings out the tiniest of skin irritations. Will definitely have to get some duck instead of chicken once he gets accustomed to the beef he will be on.
Just remember raw isn’t a cure all overnight type of thing, so don’t be disappointed if things don’t improve drastically over a week, but it is the best thing you can do for your animal.
I’ve never tested for allergies before but perhaps you could call your vet for a quote? Honestly I think you’d spend more money on different bags of food trying to figure out exactly what ingredients he’s isn’t good with.
Some folks in my raw feeding group do not feed chicken during the summertime. Instead they feed duck (a cooling meat) and this helps with itching/allergies. Also they have reccommended Herbsmith Clear Aller-Qi over herbal allergy products by Seven Forests and Tibetan Natural Healing.
Hi Everyone,
Its been a while since my last post. I wanted to update. I want to thank everyone’s support and well wishes.
Bailey our 7yo male yellow lab (as soon as I figure out how to add a pic I will) is still licking. We started with Royal Canin Lab years ago. Last year he developed paw licking, got worse last fall and this spring. Changed to grain free Nat Bal sweet potato/fish. Still licked, not as much. To save $ changed to Costco fish meal/sweet potato. Same result no change. He’s still licking. I’m not sure the food had a lot to do with the licking. Our vet prescribed vanectyl-p. That seems to help, he licks less. Called our vet to ask about a ‘shot’ and am waiting to hear back. I’m trying to find a solution that does not involve testing for allergies, which could be $$$$$. In the mean time I’m trying to do a little research on raw. Seems like raw might be the way to do. Have a pamphlet on Mrs. Meadys which brought me here. I’m anxious to hear what the forum has to say.
Nutrition deficiencies and sensitive stomach develop are usually due to eating the same dry food for months and years. Raw, high moisture food is best. There are commercial raw prepared food you can purchase if you don’t want to make your own at home.
I highly recommend the DVD ‘Functional, Fresh, Fast food for our furry friends’ by Dr. Karen Becker
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/07/21/13-pet-foods-ranked-from-great-to-disastrous.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/09/14/false-beliefs-in-pet-care-for-aging-pets.aspx
Ugh please ignore my typos. I wrote this up on my phone. Ps I I meant to say that I don’t think the raw food caused the itchiness.
So I’ve been noticing my dog scratching her neck and ears. More recently (past couple days), she’s been chewing on one of her rear paws. It’s not really intense scratching but it’s out of the norm.
I noticed the scratching after she was playing with another dog that she lives with. She kept in going into a patch of tall grass-like plants near a rose bush. (Several weeks ago)
I did give her a bath and I know the vet saying before that Codex has dry skin. But with the warm weather I’m suspecting something else.
She isn’t on flea prevention because I didn’t want to use the stuff you put on the dog’s back. I read they contain very strong pesticides. I finally got around to ordering Sentinel but I know I’ll need to supplement that with a flea repellent or something.
I took her to the vet on Tuesday for her 1 year checkup. I had to drop her off because the receptionist told me the whole thing would take about four hours…I didn’t feed or give her water that morning because I wasn’t anticipating her staying at the vet so long. Anyway, when I picked her up (5+ hours later) she was panting pretty heavily–with the air conditioning. I assumed it was because she was thirsty because Codex loves the vet. I found out they gave her rabies, lepto, Dapp, dewormer, blood test. She seemed pretty sore and tired. But she still had the energy to scratch.
Vet said everything looked normal and she probably has allergies–no fleas. He said I could give her fish oil and Benadryl (for vaccine reactions).
She’s been eating Earthborn Holistic Primitive natural with a little bit of instinct raw. I recently switched the instinct raw to duck. I introduced the duck after the scratching started.
Good to hear! I hope the homemade raw works out for you. Once you get a routine down in get more comfortable with it, you’ll be able to whip up your own balanced “recipes” with no problems. 🙂
Thanks for replying Patty! That’s why I’m using the raw goat milk, all the probiotics & digestive enzymes. Will look at the plain kefir at whole foods. It has to be cheaper.
Steve Brown says in his book that his mixes can be used with bone or without? I will email him again to make sure.
What about pouring some raw goat milk or kefir over the dog food? Those are both fermented.
Just wanted to introduce my self quickly here. I have a 3yr golden retriever who got IBD this past Jan. Had no idea it would take this long to fix. It was much quicker to fix Bongo when I rescued him at 10mths w severe malnourishment, tapeworms & eye & ear infections. VB12 shots & raw goat milk has helped the most. Switching him off can to kibble, but want to do half raw & half kibble for now. Thanks for reading!
I’ve been feeding raw goat milk to help Bongo’s IBD. Do you think Kefir is just as good? I love the goat milk, but $10 for a quart adds up every 5 days! Thanks for your input- I’m new here. Lauren
No problem! We’re always here to help 🙂
If you use a pre-mix with a meat/organ/bone grind the calcium to phosphorus ratio will be off. Most pre-mixes are designed for the addition of boneless meat.
HDM, you have NO idea! Absolutely no turning back now! 90% of the food in my fridge/freezer is Bailey’s. She eats better than I do! I know I have you awesome people, especially you, to come to if I need help! & thank you again for your input/opinions on how you would have handled our minor setback. I was all set to just give up the raw, but I am so very glad I didn’t. & I am so very glad I found this site!
I totally missed the phone number on the site but Tracy called me this afternoon and told me what I needed to do. Shes very knowledgable on the Raw topic. I placed my order for ground Rabbit and Rabbits small chunks and some ground Sardines. She recommended no veggies or fruits. I think she is right on the fruits and veggies being that even some veggies have some amounts of sugar and when trying to clear up yeast issues it is best to stay clear of them and she said they are not a part of a wolves diet in the wild so same for dogs. The Rabbit was the lowest fat and next would be young beef which we will offer that at a later time. Tracy said a month at least on the Rabbit then slowly introduce beef and the other meats but she said my girls need to build up their systems on Lean raw before we offer other proteins.
You are correct Patty, Goat is not a low fat but it isn’t really high either. Tracy recommended Rabbit for now since it is a white meat and eventually we will need to feed a red meat. I just wonder if I can use Steve Browns mix with the Rabbit or would that be over kill? I bought 3 bags a while back and need to use them. They are in my freezer right now.
I called the vet just to ask some questions. They said they would like to do a physical, and another fecal test. If it came back negative they would do more tests, like blood tests and testing his gut to see if he is even digesting his stuff correctly or if his gut needs something. I think instead of jumping the gun on this I will wait and on the 18th when I bring him home I will start him on raw and see how that goes for about another month. I will start the fiber if in 2 weeks that he is on raw his stools haven’t improved, that way I know which one worked for him if any at all :). If it fails off to the vets I go. Who knows maybe he just needs a bit more time to gain. I mean he is acting normal, hyper puppy, loves everyone, eats all his meals. If he was acting sickly and off his food I would go right away for sure.
The kennel he is at doesn’t have a scale so they are just going by body condition. I don’t have a dog scale either but usually stand on the bathroom scale and then pick up the dog and stand on it again and minus out my weight. So the true answer of whether he’s gaining even just a little is a mystery.
My vet isn’t totally opposed to the raw diet, but have “heard many people’s pets don’t do good on it.” I assured him that I had done the appropriate research and that my dog will eat raw when he got back from training. I told him if the kibble and honest kitchen haven’t done his stool any good now, the raw won’t hurt him one bit 😛 .
And it sounds like to me I need to be getting some of that DE!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by
DieselJunki.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by DieselJunki.
Glad to hear it, I bet you’re happy you stuck with it! 🙂
Just wanted to share some more good news with all of you! Bailey’s poop is still normal (small, solid) (knock on wood, lol!) AND I gave her chicken liver with her dinner, for the first time yesterday, and she loved it AND it didn’t give her runny poop! I did only give her a little bit, but I was all prepared for it not to agree with her, but she’s been fine. Yay! 🙂
No interest in toys. Thought about getting him something to chew on. He can’t have grains and seems the knuckle bones that the vet suggested didn’t keep him interested. He tore meet off of them just left them. Am scared of rawhide
Goat is a low fat meat? My goats have plenty of fat in their meat and they aren’t as fat as a lot of goats I’ve seen. However, their fat is kind of in chunks that are very trimable, not marbled through the meat.
Hare Today’s phone number is on the homepage, almost to the bottom.
Thanks Pugsmom. I am going to see if Hare today will call me since they do not have a phone number k
On their website. Hopefully they tell me more if I should order the Rabbit and or the goat or both or something else.
I would pull the parts that are thawed from outside off of the frozen center and put them in ziplocks in smaller portions, and repeat until it’s all repackaged. Might take a few days. I put a whole 20 lb box of chicken legs and a 40 lb box of chicken necks in the bathtub overnight and still frozen solid the next day!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by
pugmomsandy.
Thank you for answering Patty. I am thinking of ordering from Hare Today since they have a couple of low fat proteins that might work for my girls. I was thinking Goat and Rabbit since they would be low in fat and one is red meat and one is white meat so a good variety to start out slow. My question is those of you that buy 5 lb buckets of it how do you defrost what you need and keep the rest frozen?
EVO Red Meats Small Bites and EVO Herring and Salmon (both have egg), California Natural Grain Free Lamb/Salmon/Kangaroo, Canidae Pure Sea, Canine Caviar GF Wild Ocean and Buffalo and Wilderness formulas, DNA lamb, venison or beef (has egg), Nutrisca Lamb (chicken fat) or Salmon (egg), Earthborn Holistic GF Coastal Catch or Meadow Feast (lamb), Fromm 4 Star Nutritionals Pork or Beef (egg), Grandma Lucy’s, Hi-Tek Naturals GF Fish (egg), Horizon Legacy Fish (egg), I and Love and You Red Meat or Fish (egg), Instinct Raw Boost Beef and Lamb, Lamb & Salmon, Instinct Rabbit (chicken fat), Instinct Salmon. Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Lamb or Rabbit. Instinct has small kibble.
Hey DieselJunki –
There are many other ways to add fiber other than pumpkin. Most human fiber supplements are fine (psyllium, flax, acacia, pectin, bran, coconut fiber, etc.). If you do go the pumpkin route, Fruitables makes a product for dogs (they have a sweet potato variety as well) which blends pumpkin, apple pomace, tomato pomace, spinach and flax to get the ideal ratio of soluble to in soluble fiber. I’ve used it as kong stuffing for my dogs before. For pumpkin I’d add a couple tablespoons to each feeding for a large dog.
I’ve experienced the same thing with Honest Kitchen. My dogs have very large stools when they’re eating it and go to the bathroom about 4 times a day (versus one or two on raw). I’ve also noticed undigested bits in the stool on occasion.
I agree with Cyndi on the DE it’s GREAT stuff. I buy it 10 lbs. at a time and mix it into my dogs’ food regularly – they’ve never had a fecal test positive for parasites.
I will definitely have to try that then Patty. I always viewed it as masking the issue but the way you explained it makes sense as well. It will have to be after the 18th as that is when he comes back but I will get a few cans of pure pumpkin. Is pumpkin the only way you can add fiber to the diet? Or can I add it other ways? How much pumpkin per lb of dog do you usually give?
The kennel also called and said that he is drinking a lot. They say they have to pull him away from his water. This is a little concerning. I’ve never really had a problem with that before, but then again he’s never been in this kind of hot weather either. The kennel has a/c but they go out and train multiple times a day and sometimes go on field trips as well.
I do notice with The Honest Kitchen that much of the stuff still comes out whole in his stool. I wondered if any of you guys have fed this food and also noticed this?
As for that earth stuff I’ll have to give it a look into. I’ve seen it on some raw sites but never paid it any attention as I had no idea what it really did.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by DieselJunki.
Since you know your’s may be sensitive, I would start out with 10% raw and 90% kibble and do that for a couple weeks before upping it anymore. If you stay at 20% raw and 80% kibble, you don’t have to worry about balancing it.
For the life of me I have never been able to get Moose’s stools to become firm. They are always very soft, never any diarrhea but real soft. And I mean since we’ve had him at 8 weeks he has never really pooped firm (He has been threw a couple brands of kibble and then The Honest Kitchen). He also goes like 8 times a day. I boarded him again for another month at a totally different facility and while he is there I asked them if they could try and get some weight back on the guy as he is still so skinny. They mentioned to me it could be a parasite due to his soft stools and trouble gaining weight. I don’t believe he has trouble gaining weight I just think the other kennel wasn’t paying good attention to the way you could see his hip bones. I wouldn’t believe he had a parasite either as his soft stools have persisted threw 2 stool tests from the vets office. One was even given when he got all the rest of his shots a few months ago.
I give him Mercola Pro-Biotic and the Enzymes and still has always been the same issue.
Anyways, the new kennel asked if they could do an experiment and feed him 8 cups a day total, 4 in the morning and 4 at night for one week to see if he gains any weight. He is much more active at this new kennel as well. He is back on The Honest Kitchen Love as they will not feed raw. I am not sure if feeding him a raw diet will fix his stool issue as he ate it for 1 week and still had soft stools, and that was before I even gave him the organ mix too.
What on earth could be the issue behind this. Maybe this is normal? I’d try canned pumpkin but I really want to get behind the issue of these soft stools instead of trying to mask it as it’s not a once in awhile thing.
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This topic was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by DieselJunki.
Hi saireah –
Now that your pup is 8 months old I think it would be safe to be a bit more lenient on calcium levels – dogs can usually start regulating calcium absorption around this age. I think Dr. Tim’s would be a great choice – it’s a very high quality food and made by a reputable company. I have also found Dr. Tim’s to have excellent customer service. Although, I feel I should add that I personally feel “recall history” isn’t a very helpful metric when trying to determine the quality of a food or the risk of a future recall. Some of the most reputable companies in the industry (i.e. The Honest Kitchen) have had recalls, often times these recalls are precautionary. On the other hand, just because a company has never had a recall doesn’t mean they can’t have one tomorrow and some companies downplay and/or ignore issues with their foods just to avoid having a recall or remove products from shelves using terms such as “withdrawal” rather than recall (examples: the Chinese chicken jerky issue – there was obviously something wrong with these products however companies avoided recalling the products in spite of numerous deaths and illnesses, the current issues with Blue Buffalo and Nutro foods that are being ignored by the companies and Great Life’s product “withholding”). You need to know the company and know whether they can be trusted – if they’ve had a recall find out what the recall was for, whether it was precautionary (proactive) or whether the company waited until animals got sick before they recalled the product and whether or not the company is a repeat offender (i.e. Diamond – numerous recalls). With that said, some other “recall free” brands I’d feel comfortable recommending in addition to Dr. Tim’s are: Earthborn, Annamaet (as Marie suggested), Victor, Nature’s Logic, Artemis and NutriSource.
Thanks Sandy, & yes Bongo Buddy it did clear up. Here is a link to the thread that pugmomsandy was talking about. The last 2 comments of mine address that issue.
/forums/topic/all-natural-dog-shampoo/
My suggestion to you Bongo Buddy, read, read, read, take notes, ask questions, etc. I researched for about 2 and a half months before I finally bit the bullet and started my dog on raw. I am SO glad I did!
Good luck to you! There is A LOT of information in the forums and you can always ask questions. The people here helped me more than I could have imagined and if it wasn’t for them, I don’t think I’d have stuck with it! It’s the best thing you can do for your dog!
Bongo Buddy,
It did clear up. She posted about it in the “all natural dog shampoo” thread.
Cyndi,
I read thru this whole post, so I’m dying to know if the diarrhea problem is gone? I’m new here & want to try raw too.
Also the reason for this post is mainly because all 4 of mine are having issues with when I let them outside to go potty that they are mainly focused on eating earthworms in the yard and so this tells me that they are not getting enough protein ( 2 of mine that are doing this NEVER did this before) so my reason for adding lean raw in moderation , like 80% kibble and 20% raw to start out with just to be safe??
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This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by
NectarMom.
I have a few questions. I know my dogs cannot handle high fat in raw and I am going to keep them on Brothers Turkey and Egg as the main diet and they have been back on Brothers for 6 weeks but they just smell so yeasty even though they get their tea tree and aloe baths and they are itchy and chew the heck out of their feet. I know since our Pancreatitis episode we have to get past the Candida yeast again since antibiotics but I feel if I just start them off slowly on lean young beef with Steves topper for the added vitamins mixed with the lean young beef that they might benefit from that quicker than just being on kibble 100% of the time?? I would order it from My Pet Carnivore. They just smelled so different than when on kibble. Am I trying to fix this sooner or do you feel this would be ok to try in small amounts?? Please I seriously need some help here.
Hi HDM! Thanks & yes it did clear up, thank god! All week she’s had small hard normal poop & she’s been doing great. (knock on wood) This week I am going to start giving her tripe. I get my next order from hare today on Tuesday so hopefully that goes off without a hitch. I got tripe by itself and I also got the ground beef with the organs, tripe and bone. I’d like to eventually take her off the Fresh pet all together and do the beef grinds in the mornings instead. Even with the problems she’s had, I am so glad I switched her to raw and stuck with it!
Well, I ended up buying Earthbath Meditteranean Shampoo from Chewy.com when I ordered Bailey’s supplements. I gave her a bath about an hour ago & I LOVE that shampoo! (Thanks Sandy!) I took Bailey outside after her bath to sit on the deck to dry in the sun & holy crap does her coat shine! I am amazed! Not that it was that dull, but man, what a shine! & she is so soft & smells amazing! So, she’s been eating a raw diet for a month now, got a bath with all natural shampoo & she looks awesome! She’s got a soft, shiny coat, bright eyes, whiter than white teeth & a very happy mommy! 🙂 Thank you everyone for all your help, suggestions & opinions! I couldn’t have done it without you! I hope everyone’s having a great weekend!
I wanted to comment on your perishable comment: I have ordered raw food from two different online places and both arrived frozen solid.
AnonymousInactive
I’ll leave the advice on raw to the experts, I just want to add that you’d probably save money in vet bills feeding your girl a raw diet.
WW, i’m NOT an expert, but a friend had a St. Bernard with diet /digestion…. I told her about Probiotics & Enzymes and it helped a TON. Along with a few other changes, the dog is VERY healthy , now. I’m NOT a science diet fan, BTB. I think you can do better. I’m sure there’s a brand that meets your vet’s recommended nutrient ratios that is higher Quality. I like Wellness kibble a LOT, but i supplement it – meaning, i get the bagged kibble to make sure she gets all her vit/mins and basics, but not a huge amount. I give her homemade proteins( chicken, red meats, sometimes canned salmon)) and some whole grains/veg/fruits/cultured dairy, rotating the type of each as i go. Not a restrictive diet, fun to feed her, and she loves it. I don’t mix all the ingredients together, she chooses to eat raw egg first, then yoghurt, then meats ….
My friend fed a chicken/grain diet for a week with the probiotics and enzymes. She then added one ingredient a week, and stopped if the dog reacted poorly. This way, she knew just what causing the trouble… the probiotics/enzymes should be full spectrum…. Good luck…
Thanks HDM. He is a heavy chewer with those strong beagle jaws. The kongsickles sound like something that would keep him busy after dinner and stop ‘bugging” me. I have him sooooo spoiled! The raw meaty bones sound good. Don’t I have to be afraid of splintering since he has strong jaws and a ripping method with bones. We got knuckle bones and par boiled them at the advice if our vet. No luck. He pulled at them and knawed. When the meat was cleaned off, he wasn’t interested. Didn’t take long. He doesn’t seem to like raw meat. We tried the bones before par boiling and just got one of those beagle disgusted looks.
Alexandra,
Young Again Pet Food has a raw food supplement for mixing in meat only or meat and bone.
youngagainpetfood.com
Another idea – you can make kongsicles by filling a kong with fresh foods and freezing it. Some good items to use might be: fresh minced or pureed cooked or raw meat, diced hard boiled eggs, pureed fruits, pureed veggies, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.
Raw meaty bones (turkey necks, chicken leg quarters, etc.) or, if he’s not a heavy chewer, recreational bones (knuckle bones, marrow bones, etc.).
Another EFA (esterified fatty acid) is cetyl-myristoleate. I’ve bought Cetyl-M by Response Products and Jarrow True CMO and I give raw trachea.
Can anyone suggest great supplements for a 4.5 year old, Otherwise Very Healthy ,Female Akita who just had TPLO surgery, and will go back in in 8 weeks for the other leg? She’s no dummy, naturally cutting back her own calories when free feeding kibble- due to the reduction in energies spent. I feed Wellness kibble along with a Multitude of Fresh proteins & whole foods. I rotate, advocating variety: chicken, buffalo, salmon, mackerel, fresh caught river trout , a bit of seaweed for iodine, raw farm fresh eggs, some cooked whole grains (everything from barley to quinoa to oatmeal, i rotate), some greens, some fruit & veggies (avocado yesterday). I give a Fish Sourced Omega Oil supplement w/dha (extra now, for inflammation), glucosamine/chondroitin MSM, I’m making fresh chicken broth to give her collagen, and mixing the broth with gelatin for chicken blox treats. Extra protein right now for healing skin, ligaments, muscle. Normal supplements include daily and rotated treats, too: brewer’s yeast, marrow bones, cultured dairy (she LOVES my homemade creme fraiche and yoghurt), probiotics (daily, especially since she’s on antibiotics right now…wellness kibble has prebiotics in it, too), seasonally: fresh raw local honey w/pollen for allergies. Perhaps i’m leaving some basic vit/min supplements off this list, but are there any supplements that will specifically aid in healing, recover, address inflammation, or help reduce pain that i’m missing? The vet has her on Rimadyl, antibiotics, tramadol. Thank you… And if you’ve personally gone through a TPLO with a Big, Young, Active dog, i’d LOVE to ask you some very specific questions, if anyone has the time… I appreciate your help.
2 months, 1 week ago
