[Hound Dog Mom]

My dogs don’t show a preference for any protein over another and don’t seem to do better or worse on any specific protein. I have fed pheasant once or twice, but the only place I can get it is Hare Today and it’s expensive so it’s something that would be reserved for an occasional treat only. I do buy ground buffalo occasionally from the grocery store to add to a pre-mix but at $9/lb. that’s only a once in a while treat as well. I really don’t believe any specific protein is more or less nutritious than another. I personally stick to chicken, turkey, beef and pork because they’re the cheapest and easiest to get. I don’t feel that feeding more novel proteins would provide any benefit, it would just be more expensive. The only time feeding a novel protein would be desirable is if your dog shows sensitivities to more common proteins or when performing an elimination diet. I would think one of my recipes would give a 50 lb. dog about 4 or 5 servings but I can’t say for sure, it really depends on the dog. I would just start her on the same number of oz. as you’ve been feeding her of a commercial raw food, monitor her body condition and go from there or figure out how how many calories she’s been eating and feed her the same number of calories.

[FreeholdHound]

Can a dog test reactive to certain ingredients, which I agree, can set him off in kibble form … But can tolerate them well in raw form?
Chicken / Turkey kibble is out of the question as well as Salmon /Fish formulas, but raw chicken feet and sardines seem to be Houndie Crack to him. I want to try turkey necks next but don’t know if that’s pushing it.
I want to start incorporating raw into his diet and I was wondering if this is a common thing. As a retired racing Greyhound a raw/kibble mix would have been typically used. And I would like to go back to that type of diet (as opposed to 100% kibble he’s on now).

[FreeholdHound]

PS). I just ordered a bag of the Nature’s Logic Beef formula kibble. After some research I found this and 1 or 2 of their other formulas) to be the only kibble I’ve found that contain NONE of the ingredients that he tested sensitive to : Chicken, turkey, venison, salmon, white fish, soy, corn, milk, oatmeal, and sweet potato – oomph. Chicken, turkey, salmon & sweet potato are the big no no’s in kibble (but okay raw). I like the Victor but I am curious to see what happens with the Natures Logic. I’m aiming for a part kibble part raw diet, so even though the price on the NL is a bit steep compared to the Victor , it may balance out.

[SandyandMila]

Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I know variety is best, just wondered what you used and if your dogs like a certain protein or did better on one more than the other. Don’t think I saw you mention Pheasant, Bison or Buffalo, do you not like feed them those? Mila is smaller than your dogs (50 lbs and less active since her spay surgery), more lean and she has long legs but could use some more weight not too much though. So if I used your recipes as a frame of reference I could make 4 to 5 servings, would it still be fresh the 2nd and 3rd day or do I just make a seperate portion each day? I do like the ingredients in the Urban Wolf premix more than the others but don’t think I can find that locally, maybe I’ll look into See Spot Liver Longer that you mentioned. Thanks again, I appreciate it!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi SanDnMila –

I generally use the green tripe with spleen from Hare Today (cheapest shipping to my location) however I do occasionally buy the green tripe supermix, lamb tripe and bison tripe from My Pet Carnivore and I’m able to get venison tripe during hunting season. The more variety the better.

The recipes are for my three, 1/3 may still be too much for Mila though. I’m not sure exactly how much she eats but my dogs are very large and very active ( the girls are both about 70 lbs. and get about 2 hours of activity per day). Feed her the usual amount she gets – you may get 4 or 5 servings out of a batch.

I do prefer Urban Wolf to THK and Sojo’s. However, I’ve recently tried See Spot Liver Longer dinner mix and I think that’s my new favorite. If you’re using pre-mixes frequently, however, I’d recommend rotating.

My main protein sources that I feed are beef, pork, chicken and turkey as they’re the cheapest and easiest to get. However I occasionally get some more novel protein sources for variety. I order whole prey quail and rabbits from Hare Today a few times a year. I get venison during the fall. I’ll also sometimes buy ground lamb or bison from the grocery store and add it to a pre-mix for something different. I don’t think any one protein source really has more or less nutrients than the others, they all just have slightly different nutrient levels which is why variety is important. You should feed an even mix of red meat and poultry and I’d recommend using a least three different protein sources per week but the more the better. When I feed eggs I feed the whole egg.

[SandyandMila]

HDM – in your recipes when you feed green tripe, do you feed Hare Today with spleen or do you purchase it from somewhere else? Instead of feeding beef do you sometimes rotate in venison, bison, or buffalo? And when you feed poultry do you sometime rotate in duck, pheasant, or quail? Does chicken and turkey have more nutrients than the others I listed? I’m very new to feeding raw (just started this past week with pre-made NV and now Primal) but would like to feed one premade for one meal and homemade raw for the other meal. Mila is loving it so far, like I knew she would. 🙂 The amount you feed in your recipes is for your 3, I would be feeding my one 1/3 of that, right? Is Urban Wolf pre-mix what you recommend over HK, GL, Sojos etc.? When you feed eggs, that’s the whole egg correct? Are your dogs active, do you feed based on that? Mila is about normal in activity, but plan to do more long walks/runs with her and bring her to the dog park again this week after she has her staples taken out tomorrow. Sorry for all the questions, I’m sure I’ll have a lot more. lol I just want to be proactive and have knowledge of what I’m doing before I start.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Julie –

My older female Gertie was started on THK when she came home at 8 weeks and at THK until she was 8 months old (this is when I transitioned her to raw). I fed her a rotation of Love, Thrive, Zeal and Embark – always had a box of each on hand and switched formulas daily. I added roughly 20% Tripett (canned green tripe) to each meal to increase the fat and protein levels and offset the somewhat high level of calcium in the Embark. I did notice an increase in stool volume and frequency (I have seen this with all dehydrated-type foods I’ve used). I’m not 100% certain why this occurs, there have been several conversations about this on the review section though. I suspect it has something to do with the fact that most companies use raw vegetables (and they dehydrate them at low enough temperatures that they remain raw), the fact that many companies use “chunks” of vegetables and the high fiber content of most dehydrated foods. If you try the food and have problems some things you could try would be to run the food through a food processor prior to feeding to break down the vegetables (one posted has reported that this helps – I’ve never tried it), supplement with digestive enzymes that include cellulase or mix the THK with a high meat canned food (such as Tripett).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling –

As Sharfie pointed out feeding as a percent of body weight is a way to determine portion sizes when feeding raw. You wouldn’t want to do that for kibble as kibble is much more calorically dense than raw food (due to low moisture content).

[InkedMarie]

You’re welcome, Nosh. I have a dog who can’t have chicken too. I pretty much stick with fish or turkey for kibbles, fish for The Honest Kitchen and duck/beef/turkey for raw.

[julez4you]

Hi all,
I have a 10 week old Dane pup that I recently transitioned from Purina to a quality grain kibble. There were some hiccups along the way- but he seems to be tolerating the new food now, so my next move is to try and transition him over to something like THK Love formula, but I’ve heard from others that some dogs experience a lot of waste when on THK. Has anyone had this experience- in particular with the Love formula? I know this formula is meant to be higher in meat inclusion than some of the others- and is also one of their grain-free formulas. Just concerning as we are still very much in the potty training phase, so more stools is worrisome. Also- have always thought that quality in means less out- so perplexed why a higher meat protein raw formula would cause this?

Thanks for any input!

[julez4you]

@Sharfie and others…
Glad to hear your pup is doing much better on raw. I’m a firm believer as well- but with my senior dog 100% raw fed and my lack of desire to make my own, I just can’t afford the expense for a growing Great Dane pup. But I do hope to make the transition some day as I believe it’s what saved my former Dane life when I switched him to raw at 8.

In the meantime- wanted to share some info that might be helpful to there as they transition to new foods and/or have periods of loose stools not as a consequence of something more concerning. My Dane pup was having them as I transitioned him from Purina to a quality holistic food. My friend told me about Honest Kitchens Perfect Form herbal supplement and this stuff is amazing. It’s all natural, and I just add a little in with 2 of his meals each day (along with a probiotic) and now everything is looking good.

My next step is too hopefully transition him from kibble over the THK Love dehydrated raw.

[sharfie]

Jules-
The 4% is from the raw food forum and the % to feed if you are feeding a raw diet. I had to switch my puppy to raw a few days ago. He has had loose poops and after trying different ways to clear it up and consulting with the vet, nothing was working. I switched to raw a few days ago and things are much better.

[mah4angel]

Yes! I do believe that we are always reunited with those we love; animal and human. Whether it be in Heaven or in another lifetime, whatever you happen to believe in ^_^

There’s a whole forum topic dedicated to raw dog food menus here: /forums/topic/menus/. I’m totally no raw dog food genie haha and you can see all of my ramblings and questions on there and my current future recipe is the last comment on the thread hehe. I don’t have everything I need to actually feed him his raw diet yet so that’s why I’m not feeding him 100% raw as of yet but I will be soon!

Here is a thread for help with starting a dog on raw dog food: /forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/ BUT it will take a few months to transition her all the way up the ladder to raw food, so I wouldn’t be super worried about it quite yet 😀 I think the most important thing is to just get her off of Science Diet food. And if you have any of the Science Diet left, PLEASE donate it to a local shelter! I know that Science Diet is not at all optimal for our wonderful furry friends but shelters need all that they can get 🙂

I also wanted to add something that I forgot to my original comment, which is to start feeding raw meaty bones and organ meat (livers, hearts, etc.) when she is fully transitioned to DNA (or another freeze or air-dried raw). RMB’s as we call them are GREAT for dental health! And it’ll be a great introduction to real, raw meat. Pork necks, chicken necks, ox tails, chicken backs, chicken feet, pork feet, etc. are all RMB’s (as opposed to recreational bones like thigh bones, etc.) that are recommended. And the organ meats will supply extra nutrients. Just make sure to freeze them for two weeks just to be on the safe side 🙂

RMB’s and organs (and any table scraps, etc.) should make up no more than 20% of her daily diet (because it will throw off the balance supplied in the pre-made food), so you’ll want to give her maybe one pork neck one day and maybe one chicken heart the next day, and so on and so forth. BUT like I said, this is all a long way off so I wouldn’t focus too much on this portion of the feeding.

In reality, the longest transition time will more than likely be right now, switching from Science Diet to whatever 4-star GRAIN-FREE food (totally forgot to mention that the four-star food should be grain-free) you choose, whether it be Nature’s Domain or something else. This is because her tummy isn’t used to the lack of grains. It’s almost like a detox process. So, that transition will most likely take the longest to complete; probably a month or so.

This is why adding fiber (with things like pureed pumpkin, hemp, chia, and flax seed, etc.) and probiotics/digestive enzymes (with things like yogurt, etc.) is important because it helps to nourish the balance of good and bad bacteria in the gut as well as balancing out any other digestive problems.

I’m trying to pack in a lot of information into one comment so that you won’t have to do too too much fishing for information. It’s stressful, I know! The most important thing is to just pull the trigger and do it. I second-guessed myself and I waited until I felt I had found the perfect food, but no food is 100% perfect. There is no supplementing a wolf’s primitive diet with just one food, try as we might hehe ^_^

[MsDad]

Thanks for the info Hound Dog Mom. Is it just the calcium and phosphorus we need to watch out for or protein as well? I’ve been looking at Nature’s Logic but it has a very high protein content. Everything else looks really good. It just seems like I can’t find a food that has it all….

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi MsDad –

Congrats on the new pup and very good decision on going raw. I have two bloodhounds that are raw fed. I make homemade raw and fed 25% of the diet as green tripe until 8 months old to keep calcium levels low, but in balance with the phosphorus. Green tripe has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio (1:1) but low levels of each mineral (only about 0.3%). If you’re going the commercial route the formulas I know to have acceptable calcium levels are: Aunt Jeni’s (Turkey), BARF (Beef, Chicken, Lamb), Darwin’s (Beef), K9 Kraving (Beef, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, Duck), Primal (Beef, Duck, Lamb, Quail, Turkey/Sardine, Venison), Stella & Chewy’s (Beef), Vital Essentials (Fish, Beef). If you can get raw tripe (I order mine from My Pet Carnivore and Hare Today) and wanted to occasionally use a formula higher in calcium you could mix it with tripe.

[MsDad]

Hi, I’m new to the forum and am a firm believer in raw diets. I will be getting a goldendoodle puppy in October who will ultimately be trained to be my service dog. So obviously I want to give him every advantage possible. So far, the best food I’ve found is Primal Rabbit Formula but I wonder if the calcium content is high enough or just right. Would love to hear any/all opinions.

Eddie

[mah4angel]

Hi! I’d like to start out by saying to ChristyGH and dendad, I am SO SO sorry for your losses! I know it’s easy to feel bad about your choice of diet for your babies but it is absolutely NOT your fault!! We all can see how much love you had for your babies and all of us have been there! You had every reason to believe that you were doing the best for your babies and no one should ever begrudge you for it, including yourself <3

I’m on my way to feeding my Louie (a 10-pound Silky) 100% raw and had a few suggestions myself.

His previous owners had him on pretty much whatever was on sale at the grocery store/whatever they decided to pick up from Costco that day (Pedigree, Purina etc.). The one he was on when we took him home was Purina Puppy Chow (we got him four months ago and he’s three, not a puppy anymore).

I’ve personally found that it was easier to transition him from the CRAP he was eating before slowly up the ladder of great-quality foods. I would buy small batches of each new food (5-10 pounds if available) which would last him for a month or so and then move on to a higher quality kibble. Every time I’ve upgraded his food, he’s picked out the old one from his bowl! ^_^

It’s important to mention how to transition a dog. You have to transition SLOWLY, very very slowly. You’re going to keep a certain ratio of new food to old food for a week OR if her bowel movements change, wait until they turn to normal to move onto the next ratio. At first, have 25% of the new food, and 75% of the old food. Then (once everything is normal) do 50% new 50% old. Finally, 75% new, 25% old until it’s 100% new food.

My suggestion (after going through this whole process) would be to do this (remember to ALWAYS properly transition your pup between each step and add probiotics/digestive enzymes and fiber):

-Change from Science Diet to a four-star kibble (something like Nature’s Domain: http://www.naturesdomainpetfood.com/ which is sold at Costco in HUGE bags so it might not be the best for a little one like yours)

-Then from a four-star kibble to a five-star kibble (like Innova Prime: http://www.petco.com/product/118780/Innova-Prime-Grain-Free-Beef-And-Lamb-Adult-Dry-Dog-Food.aspx?CoreCat=OnSiteSearch, or Earthborn Holistic: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural-grain-free-dry-dog-food). I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend Earthborn Holistic products, they are GREAT quality and my Louie adores the Primitive Natural kibble.

-Then start SLOWLY adding in wet food to the kibble (like the Earthborn dinners: http://www.petflow.com/product/earthborn-holistic/earthborn-holistic-duke-s-din-din-gourmet-dinner-wet-dog-food).

-Then, switch from the five-star kibble to something that has raw in it like Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Boost food (which has bits of freeze-dried raw in it): http://www.petflow.com/product/natures-variety/nature-s-variety-instinct-grain-free-raw-boost-venison-meal-lamb-meal-dry-dog-food. Continue to add in the wet food.

-Then go to a 100% raw kibble like DNA (air-dried raw, stands for Dried N Alive): http://www.dnapetfood.com/node/20, or something similar. At first, I would continue to add in the wet food to this, but then I would transition her to 100% DNA (or whatever food you decide to use).

-And then transition from that to a pre-made frozen raw OR you could totally cut costs and make your own (which is what I’m doing), and then you’ll have 100% control over what she’s eating 😀

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by mah4angel.

[NectarMom]

My dogs are getting very bored with the ground Rabbit and 2 of them will not touch it anymore so I bought some young beef, green tripe and white fish or something like that so I am wondering since green tripe is so low in fat ( from My Pet Carnivore) can I feed that as a whole meal? They also would not touch the young ground beef so I am having to give it away to a friend. I wish I could find something similar to Darwin’s but not with such high fat and so much veggies. We also tried the Canine Caviar Venison dry and honestly I don’t think it has enough protein for my crew. My short coat Chihuahua started having more coat loss, not bald spots but just more shedding than normal and the itching hasn’t stopped but gotten worse. One of my long coated Chihuahuas was digging at her legs when on Brothers Turkey and egg and she hasn’t stopped yet and the insides of her legs are blood raw 🙁

[dendad]

No I haven’t considered raw. I guess it sounded unhealthy to me, but it looks like I have nothing to worry about. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out.

[GizmoMom]

Have you consider switching to raw or pre-made raw? My picky dog ate it right up. When he was on kibble, he was very picky and refuses to eat. Now that’s he on raw, he eats everything. Even when I switch him to new brands of pre-made raw, he doesn’t hesitate to eat.

Go through this list and see which one you might want to try.
/dog-food-reviews/raw/5-star/

[sharfie]

Hi HDM-
Thank you for all your help. I have one other question. I have access to the commercial frozen raw foods (I work in a small pet food store): Bravo, Primal, Stella and Chewies, etc. But, I noticed there are no calcium levels listed on the bag. Do you know if any of the freeze dries or raw frozen food have the appropriate calcium levels for large breed puppies?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jules –

If you were feeding only canned or raw foods, yes you should watch the calcium level. If you are only using them as a topper to a kibble with appropriate levels of calcium, I wouldn’t worry about it. I am getting together a list of suitable commercially available raw foods, I don’t plan on doing canned foods in the near future though – sorry! What I did with Mabel when she was a pup was to replace about 25% of what my other two adults were eating with raw green tripe which has a low, but balanced, calcium to phosphorus ratio (I make homemade raw). Sounds like we’re on nearly opposite sides of the country – I’m located in northern New York about 15 miles from the Canadian border!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica1 –

The Organix puppy formula is 1.05% calcium and has 2.89 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal. – so yes, it’s a good choice. It would be perfectly fine to use both grain-inclusive and grain-free foods in a rotational feeding program. Many people are under the assumption that dry food is good for dental health – you’re not the only one. For the most part, this is a myth. Some dogs that thoroughly chew their kibble may may derive some benefit in comparison to a soft food however this benefit is minimal and will not be enough to prevent periodontal disease and – in my experience – most dogs don’t thoroughly chew kibble and therefore would receive no benefit. The only food that promotes dental health is a raw meaty bones diet and any dog eating commercial food, be it kibble or canned food, will need their teeth brushed on a regular basis or they will get eventually develop periodontal disease to some degree. Your vet telling you that your dog will have good dental health as long as he eats kibble would be the equivalent of your dentist telling you that you don’t need to brush your teeth as long as you eat crunchy foods – kind of silly, right? About 85% of dogs fed commercial foods over the age of 3 have some degree of periodontal disease, oftentimes it goes unnoticed by owners. Many people think “doggie breath” is normal, but it’s not. A dog’s breath should have no odor. All of the Organix canned foods appear that they’re labeled for adult maintenance, however if you’re only using the canned food as a topper and the bulk of the puppy’s diet is going to be a dry food approved for growth or all life stages this is fine. You could also top the Organix puppy kibble with a canned food labeled for growth from another brand, there’s no reason you can mix different brands of kibble and canned food. I hope that helps!

[guidosmom]

I have two dogs, and one of them has been the exact same way. I fully expected him to devour his first raw meal. Instead he didn’t really want anything to do with it. Our other dog thought it was the best thing that ever happened to her. 🙂

[mah4angel]

Just thought I’d share, already posted this on my Multivitamin topic, but it’s more appropriate for this forum.
So here’s my recipe (I make eight batches for Louie right now and I will be continuing to do that, and adding a couple things every day so I’ll be able to mix it up and give him some variety)

Morning (recipe makes 8 meals, aside from the parts to be added on a daily basis):

4 patties / ~1.1 lbs / ~2 cups From the Heart whole grind (~0.1375 lbs / ~1/4 cup per serving)
2 cups XKALIBER blend (greentripe.com) (1/4 cup per serving)
1/2 650 mg capsule of Swanson’s glandular supplement (~40 mg per serving)
1 200 IU capsule of vitamin e (25 IU per serving)
1 1000 mg capsule of cod liver oil (125 mg per serving)
Rotating every day (adding to above recipe on a daily basis):
-1/2 tsp salmon oil
-1/2 tsp coconut oil
-1/2 tbsp flax seed
Rotating every day (adding on a daily basis):
-Dr. Harvey’s Multivitamin and Mineral Supplement
-Only Natural Pet Super Daily Greens

Evening:

RMB’s (rotating)

I’ve ordered the green tripe and am going shopping for the RMB’s tomorrow! Everything else is on its way here 🙂

[londoncalling1996]

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply to my questions. It’s really so helpful, I find it all a bit overwhelming. I made the trip to Los Altos today to the pet store with LOTS of good dog food options. I got 7 small sample bags of different kinds of Fromm dry kibble for Lux to try. I also got a can of Trippett, Green beef tripe, duck and salmon. (I haven’t opened it yet though, got to psych myself up for that I think! :-)) And a can each of Ziwipeak venison&fish recipe and Nature’s logic rabbit dinner. After reading your advise, I thought, “well, cost isn’t really an isssue, man, what we paid for this dog!”, but then I got to the pet store and saw the prices! If my 16 year old is going to go to college, Lux might have to eat some kibble! These three cans I got cost 15 bucks and with a berner in the house, we might be eaten out of house and home! I am looking on line at some of the on line sites you suggested. Thanks! I do like to shop local and will, but since it’s about 20 miles to the nearest pet store with good food, I can justify not using the local shop for all of our dog food needs all the time. So, now you have me thinking about wet and raw food, do I also need to worry about the calcium content in those for the first 8 or 10 months of Lux’s life? Maybe you have a list of your favorite canned foods for Large and Giant Breed puppies that have the right amount of calcium? (Fingers crossed!) Where are you located? I’m on the San Francisco peninsula, about 20 miles south of SF. Thank you for everything! Cheers, Jules

[pugmomsandy]

tarynjodi,

When you see a tapeworm on your dog’s poop, you are just seeing a few segments of the whole worm that is already residing in the intestines. Tapeworms can grow up to several feet in length. Your pup probably already had them. Tapeworms don’t necessarily shed with poop all the time. It can be once a week that you might even see one. The tapeworm eggs are carried by fleas and when your dog eats one, it can become infected. Half of my fosters had tapeworms when I got them. But I didn’t see them in the stool always right away. Sometimes it will be a week before I see some. My personal dogs have been eating Trippett and other completely raw foods for a couple years and they don’t ever have worms. And I don’t even give them any flea prescriptions. But I’ve noticed that half my fosters during this time of year have tapeworms. They weren’t even treated at the vet for them before being released as they probably didn’t shed any in the stool while there or the tech just didn’t look at the poop up close!

[sharfie]

So, I am a bit confused. Right now I am feeding my puppy NV Turkey and adding Bravo Buffalo Boneless as a topper. If I were to use Bravo Balance or a canned food, which is a complete and balanced raw food, would it raise the calcium to a level that is too high?

Thanks so much for your help.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi londoncalling1996 –

That’s too bad your store didn’t carry any of the foods. 🙁 If you’re not opposed to online ordering there are many sites that sell a wider variety of foods than you could find in a store and they also typically have lower prices – most also offer free shipping with no weight limit when you spend a certain amount of money (usually orders over $49). I’d recommend checking out wag.com, chewy.com, petflow.com and naturalk9supplies.com. Also the new lists should give you many additional options to choose from.

I definitely feel that, if it’s financially feasible, non-dry foods should be fed as a sole diet or at least in addition to kibble. Dry food is actually the worst thing to feed a dog – however to to budget and time constraints it, understandably, comprises the bulk of most dog’s diets. I urge you to check out this article Dr. Marty Goldstein (one of my all time favorite veterinarians) posted on his blog, it ranks the different types of food from best to worst: drmarty.com/what-should-i-feed-my-pet-for-best-health/

If you add wet food you should count account for this in her daily food intake – just monitor her weight and if she’s gaining too much start feeding a little less. One of my all time favorite wet food toppers (especially for large breed puppies) is Tripett. I like Tripett for several reasons: 1) high protein/moderate fat/low carbohydrate (ideal); 2) it has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio but very low amounts of each, so it can effectively be used to lower the calcium to phosphorus ratio in any food fed to a large breed puppy without the risk of throwing off the balance and 3) dogs go absolutely nuts for it (people hate it – if you feed it you’ll see why – but they love it). The only thing I want to note with Tripett is that it’s not a complete and balanced food (it’s just canned green tripe) so if you do feed it make sure it doesn’t exceed 20% of the meal or you could throw off the nutritional balance. Some other more balanced canned foods that I like that could account for over 20% of the meal are: ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Merrick. Dr. Mike has a great compilation of high quality canned foods over on the review site as well. If you’re looking for a quality yet budget friendly canned food (canned food can be quite pricey, especially when feeding a large breed puppy) I’d recommend checking out 4Health (available at Tractor Supply, $0.99 per can), Pure Balance (available at Walmart, $1 per can), Kirkland Cuts in Gravy (available at Costco, $0.79 per can), Whole Earth Farms (available at many online retailers about $1.50 per can) – these foods are all 4 – 5 star quality. Some other toppers you could use are dehdyrated foods (i.e. The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) – these foods are about the same consistency as a stew type canned food when rehydrated, a balanced frozen or freeze-dried commercial raw food (freeze-dried rehydrates to canned food consistency) or fresh toppers such as sardines, eggs, plain yogurt or left over lean meat or steam veggies from your dinner.

Digestive aids aren’t necessary, but many feel they’re beneficial. Many of the regulars here supplement with probiotics and enzymes. I don’t supplement with either because my dogs eat a raw diet (naturally occurring enzymes) and consume raw green tripe (rich in enzymes and probiotics) and kefir (rich in probiotics) on a regular basis. If feeding cooked food only (like kibble and canned) I do feel that enzymes and probiotics can provide benefit.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Just because she’s allergic to chicken that shouldn’t mean that she’s allergic to all poultry. Many dogs are allergic to chicken and aren’t affected by duck, turkey, quail, etc. Some dogs that are allergic to chicken-based kibble can even eat raw chicken or chicken organs without issue. Unless your dog has shown a reaction to other poultry I wouldn’t rule them out as sources of protein. Ideally you want to be feeding an even mix of poultry and red meat. You can supplement with a small amount of fish oil daily or feed a fatty fish (such as sardines or wild salmon) for one or two meals a week. If you do find that you’re needing to avoid all poultry and only feed red meat you should add 1 tsp. hemp seed oil or walnut oil per pound of meat – these oils provide linoleic acid (a short chain omega 6 fatty acid) and alpha linolenic acid (a short chain omega 3 fatty acid) which red meats are deficient in.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi julez4you –

The calcium levels in this particular formula are appropriate for a large breed puppy and it is an all life stages food however – imho – it’s way too low in protein and fat. If you do feed it, I would definitely recommend topping with a high protein canned food or adding some fresh meat/eggs/etc. I definitely feel high protein is preferable. I’m a big fan of THK and, in fact, my two year old was weaned onto THK and ate it until she was 8 months old – Love was a staple in the rotation.

I completely understand where you’re coming from with the raw thing. Commercial raw is very expensive – especially for large dogs. I could never afford commercial raw for my two given the amount that they eat. I’m able to do homemade fairly cheaply but it does get quite time consuming.

[julez4you]

Hound Dog Mom:
I know you are working to compile updated lists, but I’m running low on my pups current bag so hoping to switch. I just transitioned my pup to Petcurean Go Chicken, and calcium levels are a bit higher than optimal. What do you think of this formula? http://www.petcurean.com/for-dogs/go/sensitivity-and-shine-duck

The guaranteed anaysis as fed is provided.

Also- how would you compare feeding something like this or even a higher protein grain-free kibble vs. The Honest Kitchen Love?

I’m a big believer in raw- my lab/mastiff mix is 100% raw fed. But I don’t have the time/desire to make my own, so I buy commercial raw and I just can’t afford to have my senior dog plus a 9week old Dane pup on raw right now. I do eventually hope to make the switch though once he’s past the high growth years where he’d be eating us out of house and home 🙂

Thanks again! I’ve really been struggling with this one.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DellUSN –

Yes – I feel that the sooner a rotational feeding program is implemented the better. There are several reasons foods should be rotated – there is no “best” or “perfect” food so switching brands will help to mitigate the shortcomings of feeding any one brand for an extended period of time, feeding a variety of foods helps to foster a strong and diverse population of microorganisms in the gut and by having several “go to” foods you’ll be able to make a quick switch in the event of a recall or formula change. Some also believe that rotating foods helps to decrease the risk of the dog developing a sensitivity to a particular ingredient later in life.

Initially, you may need to gradually transition your pup when switching brands. You would do this by feeding 25% new/75% old for a few days, then moving to 50/50 for a few days, then 75/25 for a few days, then transitioning entirely to the new food. If your pup is experiencing loose stools during the transition a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin and/or probiotics may help. My two dogs were both started on a rotational feeding plan upon coming home at 8 weeks old and neither experienced any digestive upset – but it does depend on the dog.

As far as which brands to feed, for the next four months or so I would recommend keeping him on a controlled calcium food. Any of the kibbles on my list would be comparable to Wellness CORE. I’m currently in the process of updating the list and by the end of this week or beginning of next week I should have a revised grain-free list, a grain-inclusive list and a raw list posted.

There really is no rhyme or reason to rotational feeding – everyone has their own method. I haven’t fed kibble quite a few years but for my last dog that ate kibble I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned food and/or fresh food “toppers” daily. When I got Gertie (currently two years old) I rotated between The Honest Kitchen’s (dehydrated) Love, Embark, Thrive and Zeal formulas and fed a different variety each day, I also mixed in a can of Tripett with her breakfast and gave her either a raw egg, a tin or sardines or plain yogurt at dinner. When she was 8 months old I switched her to a raw diet. Mabel (my one year old) transitioned to a raw diet as soon as she came home at 8 weeks. On their homemade raw diets my dogs get something completely different at each meal.

I would highly recommend adding “toppers” if you’re feeding kibble as the sole diet. Toppers will boost the “species-appropriateness” by adding some extra protein, moisture and providing your dog with some fresh, less processed food. Some people believe canned foods are unhealthy, however they’re actually much healthier than dry food – they’re less processed, higher in protein/lower in carbohydrates and have a high moisture content. The same applies to dehydrated foods and raw foods. If you’re adding a balanced canned, dehydrated or raw food you can top with as much as you want. “People food” is great too – any left over lean meat or veggies from your dinner, eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir and cottage cheese are all cheap and very healthy foods (just keep unbalanced extras such as these to 20% or less of the meal or you could risk throwing of the nutritional balance of the kibble).

Hope that helps! 🙂

[kcarter137]

I have been lurking around on a few of the “Raw Food” Forums and decided to do homemade-cooked food. I would do raw but my boyfriend has vetoed it (hopefully I can slowly incorporated some raw items without him knowing). I have Dr. Beckers book, I have read it a few times and understand that I am going to need to supplement her food due to lack of bones but still have some questions. We are going currently reintroducing foods after being on a elimination diet of pork and sweet potatoes for the last few months due to her allergies. So far we have discovered she is allergic to rice and chicken. She can have fish. I still have a few more weeks of reintroducing items. I know the rice irrelevant. The dermatologist she’s seeing said that if she is allergic to chicken then she cannot have any “feathered” protein.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Will I need to supplement her feed with anything to make up for the lack of “feathered protein”?

[DellUSN]

Hello, Hound Dog Mom.

I’ve been searching around this site for a little while now and I’ve noticed your activity and knowledge about pet foods. I signed up so that I could attempt to contact you directly through private message, but I guess that’s not possible here. Either way, I’ve been reading a lot of your advice on here and I had a couple questions for you. I have a 4 month old Chocolate Lab (40 pounds) named Rooster who I just got a couple weeks ago. Having studied to become an Registered Vet Tech before I joined The Navy, I understood that importance of nutrition for large breed puppies, or any breed of puppy for that matter. After some research I decided to go with a 4 pound bag of Wellness CORE Puppy Formula. His transition over to the food went very smoothly and he’s been devouring it, so I bought him a 26 pound bag. I currently feed him 4 cups a day dry kibble (2 AM, 2 PM) and he’s doing well on the schedule. I read a post that you made about rotating dog’s brand of food and source of protein. I was curious if this was something that should be implemented at young age and some other brands you recommended for my pup. Also, I was very worried about my dog and people food because I’ve seen so many people just go nuts feeding there dogs junk food. He has not been exposed to any people food yet, but I’d like to get him on some raw meats and bones if possible. At what age would he be ready for that and what sorts of things would you recommend for him in that field? I really anticipate your reply and appreciate any input you offer. Thank you!

[DogEDog]

Hello Spencer’s Mom,
If you believe that your dog has a food allergy (for instance chicken), it will not make a difference if that chicken is moist, dry, freeze dried, raw or raised in rolling meadows by nuns. It’s still chicken.
The fact that you have changed the protein multiple times muddles the waters as to what he is actually allergic to, if in fact, it is the food.
You need to place him on a food elimination trial with a novel protein and a novel carbohydrate. No treats, table food or trash can diving for the next 8 to 10 weeks. If you see an improvement, then add one additional food item and wait and see if there is an allergic reaction. If he’s rolling good, then add another food element. When you see that he reacts, remove the suspected food and see if he improves. If you really want to prove it, give him that last food and watch for a reaction and that will give you your answer. And I’ll bet it’s not grain that is the issue.
After going through the food elimination trial and there is no improvement, it’s obviously not the food and you should take him to the vet because NO ONE including a veterinarian can make a diagnosis of your pet without a physical examination and a history. In fact, you should take him now if he is that miserable.
Best of luck to you and your dog.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve heard some dogs like chunks and sometimes lightly frozen so it has some texture to it. You can also start with some ground raw instead of whole meat and bone.

[somebodysme]

I finally figured out one huge cause of my dog’s allergies…RAWHIDE! If your dog is scratching like mad and you are giving them rawhide, please try stopping that and seeing if it helps. I finally figured out that is what caused her rash. She had not had a rawhide for a long time and I gave her one and after a day, she broke out in a rash again. I never once dreamed rawhide would cause a rash and itching and her hair to start falling out! Now I’m wondering if it’s beef or something used to treat the rawhide. I guess the next thing to try is a beef neck bone. She needs something to clean her teeth.

[mah4angel]

AH I feel so dumb the glandular is the one that was linked to me a while back in this conversation. I found it again and I guess I picked right LOL. Aye aye aye I’m such a basket case it’s not even real o_O

[mah4angel]

Hello all!

So I decided to create a separate topic here on the supplements forum specifically to ask for suggestions for a cheap human multi with no calcium that would be safe/acceptable for dogs. I’m working on getting my Louie on a 100% raw diet but HDM pointed out that the recipe I have will be deficient in certain vitamins (d and e) and minerals (manganese) so I’d like to supplement with a multi. Here’s what I plan on feeding:

Morning:
1/2 cup whole grind (rotating between protain sources)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Alternating between Dr. Harvey’s and Daily Greens super food supplements
Swanson’s glandular supplement
Omega-3 source (salmon oil, whole sardines, etc.)
No-calcium multi
Possibly organic virgin coconut oil if it doesn’t throw everything off

Evenings:
RMB’s

I don’t know that this is adequate but, it’s what I’ve got so far 😀

[cearaandtroy]

We bought our pup some chicken leg quarters to make the big jump to raw. I was hoping he would take right to it, but unfortunately he is very resistant to the idea. I guess that’s what happens when you’ve been fed science diet since you were a puppy! I really really want him to get this, does anyone know of any ways to convince him to eat the raw meat? If I cut off small chunks and make it seem like a treat, he sometimes takes it and is very excited. Otherwise, he licks and might half heartedly gnaw on the leg quarter before losing interest and finding something else to do. So far, I’ve tried searing the outside and that got his attention for a few minutes but he again left it. What can I do??

[SandyandMila]

The Primal website also shows in a video that u can thaw the portion by putting the bag in a big bowl filled with cool water for about 30 mins, so I might try that. It’ll be her first one so she’ll be a little hesitant at first. I hope she enjoys it. 🙂 I love the videos of Gertie eating her meaty bones, maybe I’ll post a pic. Thanks for your help.

[Michelle]

I think this is what I’m going to feed for now…I may try making homemade raw for them again in the future…just need to figure out all the nutrients (I have the NRC numbers) and sometimes it just makes my head hurt. So, Hound Dog Mom…do I need to supplement at all do you think?
Sun: 2.5 cups Acana Pacifica 11 oz Pork
Mon: 2.5 cups Acana Pacifica 12 oz Pollock
Tues: 35 oz Turkey thigh, 1 apple, 3 oz green beans, the ‘balanced recipe’ also includes some lentils, sweet potatoes, rice or barley and green peas
Wed: Premade Raw
Thurs: 35 oz Turkey thigh and the veggie mix again
Fri: Big Dog Natural dehydrated – the tripe mixture
Sat: 2.5 cups Acana Pacifica 11 oz Beef
Also per week 9 eggs, 3 cans sardines, 3 oz canned salmon, 1.5 oz liver, 2.6 oz heart, 4.6 oz kidney and 400 iu of vit e.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You could add some of her regular food to it, but I really don’t think it would be necessary as long as she’s getting at least once balanced meal a day. The only think I would look out for is constipation from too much bone – if this does happen just give her a handful of hearts/gizzards or boneless chicken when you feed her a chicken back. It’s perfectly fine to feed partially frozen – I give my dogs partially frozen RMB’s all the time because I often forget to take them out of the freezer far enough in advance.

[SandyandMila]

I do plan on feeding them intermittently, but don’t want it to be unbalanced. Should I add some of her food (canned and/or kibble) or HK Embark to make it a meal? I’ve had it thawing over night but its still partially frozen, can I feed it like that or should I feed it tomorrow?

[Michelle]

I also need to watch the fat content…I think that’s why Summer didn’t do so well with her inflammation when I was feeding based off of body weight. So, I know pork tenderloin and sirloin, fish (which I will cook) and some cuts of beef are leaner…I will have to use those. No just buying whatever is the cheapest. I’ll have to check out those pre-mixes – I did try one of THK’s about a year ago…Summer didn’t like it at all. And the person I worked with to balance the diets is a stickler for getting the correct amount of minerals/vitamins…so in that person’s eyes any other type of protein will throw the whole diet off kilter. I really don’t agree with that whole way of thinking either. Thanks!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

It’s great that you’re considering adding some variety – eating only one protein source isn’t healthy. I don’t see why you couldn’t just rotate the protein in your “balanced” recipe? Ideally you should be feeding an even mix of poultry and red meat. If you’re worried about balance you could also purchase a pre-mix (i.e. See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Urban Wolf, etc.) and just add your meat of choice. I haven’t used OC Raw or Big Dog Naturals (I believe Sandy has?), I did try Darwin’s once. I wouldn’t use Darwin’s again because their customer service was horrible (the food was good though) – but many of the regulars here use it and really like it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As long as she’s getting a balanced food at the other meal I think it would be fine to feed a larger RMB (such as a chicken back) as an entire meal a few days per week. Just see if it makes her constipated, chicken backs are basically all bone with some skin (very little meat) so the high bone content could make her constipated. I don’t typically give my dogs just an RMB as a meal because the calcium to phosphorus ratio would be too high. So, for example, if I were feeding a chicken back I’d give a chicken back + 1/4 lb. gizzards + 1 egg. But if you’re just feeding RMB’s intermittently making a meal of it shouldn’t pose an issue.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Sandy. Unfortunately, the ingredients in greenies are really really bad – giving your dog a greenie would be about the equivalent of giving your kid a candy bar. 🙁

I give my dogs raw meaty bones daily (turkey necks, chicken backs, pork necks, etc.) and natural chews (bully sticks, pig ears, dried tracheas, etc.) for dental health. I also brush their teeth. Most “dental chews” on the market are full of unhealthy ingredients.

[cearaandtroy]

Thank you both! I have been trying the past couple days. The day before I started I gave him about 1/4 of a pound of lean ground beef just to get him excited and he gobbled it up so I was hopeful. I bought chicken leg quarters for him to start with and natures balance limited ingredient venison and sweet potato food just to supplement with while I was getting the hang of feeding raw. My problem now is, he won’t eat. He hasn’t eaten in a day and a half, I tried a chicken leg quarter and he licked it and half heartedly gnawed on it for a couple minutes, then left it alone. I tried keeping him interested but figured he just wasn’t hungry, because he seemed to like the taste by the way he was licking it. But he also hasn’t touched any of his kibble, though I think he likes it, because if I offer a piece as a treat he is very excited! I guess he is fasting himself because I left the kibble out all this time and it’s untouched. But it worries me. He’s a year old, is this normal? Should I try the raw chicken again? I was thinking of keeping ALL food away from him until he was actually hungry, then offering the leg quarter to him, but that’s hard to do when you live with your mother in law, and her dogs eat beneful, or when your toddler sneaks bites of pizza to your pup.

Basically, I need help with ideas on how to get him interested in the chicken leg! I really want to do this raw diet, but right now I’m feeling a little let down. I know it’s made to taste good to them, but I wish he would at least eat the natural balance over beneful or science diet!