[InkedMarie]

Dori, you’re correct, the tech or the vet asks me what I food but I get that “huh” look. Most of them haven’t heard of the kibble I’ve fed, haven’t heard of The Honest Kitchen and most don’t agree with raw but they just shut up.

[Dori]

Another thought you may want to consider is that it’s not so much the dog food as it is the water. I feed high quality 5 star foods and raw and have never had the problem. I did though have the problem when I gave them regular tap water. A groomer friend of mine years ago suggested I switch to filtered water and immediately did the trick. To this day they drink filtered water and we’ve not had the problem again. It has to do with the ph in the water they drink. Hope this gives you another avenue to consider.

[gmcbogger38]

Years ago we had a Jack Russell who had terrible skin problems. We tried Dinovite and it completely cleared up her issues. Now, I have a Saint Bernard who has been having chronic ear problems and she has a odor that won’t completely go away when bathing her. Now she hasn’t had a bath in a couple months and she smells even worse. I have tried expensive high quality grain free and potato free dry foods and even raw (homemade with no grains, etc) and nothing has worked for her. I am finishing up a grain inclusive food right now and so far I have noticed improvements in her from being on grain free (seems opposite of what should happen). I will be putting my dogs on Victor dog food, since I have read some good reviews about it. I will give the food about a couple months and if I haven’t noticed her ears and eyes clearing up I have thought about trying Dinovite again. Now, my hesitation with it is the cost so I am wondering if anybody else has a suggestion of a supplement similar to Dinovite that might be cheaper please let me know. Thanks.

[doggiemama]

Our sighthound is coming off 3 weeks of what started as diarrhea and developed into Pancreatitis. He just turned 9 and has been fed foods like Canidae, raw, California Natural Grain Free all his life. Because he has a history of GI problems our vet was suggesting things like surgery to do some biopsies. Of course, surgery is a last resort, so we thought we were doing reasonably well, and then this last episode started and he came up with a Pancreatitis diagnosis. I really feel like a fish out of water now. The vet wants him on Hills ID. I am unhappy with that on so many levels (so is our furrkid). I am having a lot of difficulty understanding how a corn food with numerous other unknown ingredients, some chemicals and by-products, can be better than a food with only a few ingredients that are cleanly prepared and occur naturally in a canine’s natural “wild” environment. Pancreas issues are concerning, however, so I feel I need to defer to Vet judgment at this time. If anyone has knowledge of other good quality diets or diet guidelines for a pooch in our doggie’s boat, I sure would like to hear about it. Thanks.

[theBCnut]

I had to laugh and hard when I read that cavemen sat around all day!!! That was one of the most idiotic things I have ever heard. Dogs do have trouble digesting raw PLANT matter, but not raw animal matter. What a ridiculous argument for why processed foods are better for you.

My vet doesn’t like raw, but other than that, she isn’t that moronic.

Try adding a supergreen like spirulina, kelp, or alfalfa to your dogs food and see if that curbs the grass eating. It did for mine, but some dogs just like to graze.

[theBCnut]

I have used everything under the sun at one time or another. Now, I’m feeding my dogs half raw and I haven’t had a problem with fleas last year at all. If I have a problem this year, I’m going to make my own spray with essential oils that are know to be vermifuges and insecticides.

If you have carpeting, work diatomatious earth or borax into the carpet before spring arrives. If you don’t, vaccuum a lot, especially around cracks, crevices, and furniture.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Leah-
Just to add to my last post. If I had a bigger pet food budget, I’d definitely be checking out the Nature’s Variety Instinct kibble and possibly trying to feed more fresh and/or raw foods. Have a great day!

[crazy4cats]

Leah-
Sounds like you are on the right track! Read through Dr. Mike’s library of informative articles on the review side of this website. Empower yourself by learning as much as possible. Then, most importantly read the ingredient labels and analysis of what you are going to feed. I just looked at the pretty packaging and listened to those crazy commercials before I ran into some issues with my pets before I got smarter. You are already past that! I am currently feeding Victor grain free with great results. I think most of their food has poultry except for the fish based kibble. I’m not sure how you feel about fish. I’m going to try it next. I also add toppers, such as, canned, sardines, raw nuggets and eggs to their kibble. Have fun with your new pup!

[raylene5]

Took our 12 week old Miniature Schnauzer puppy to the vet for his first check up yesterday and, like with most vets I’ve ever met, I sure didn’t like her. I had called ahead of time and asked if the vets at this office are supportive of raw feeding and was assured that they are. Well, as soon as I told her I was feeding raw (Primal Pronto and ZiwiPeak) she gave me the spiel about contaminating the kids with his kisses and salmonella.

So Kamper has been eating grass since he got to our place. He was born in Arizona and had not seen grass at all before so at first I thought it was just curiousity. When I told the vet I was concerned about his eating the grass, she said it was probably because he was on a raw diet and that dogs can’t digest raw foods. That, like our bodies, they can better digest processed foods (she brought up how when we were cavemen we ate a lot of uncooked food and just sat around digesting it all day). Now, the good thing was that she did suggest very high quality kibble (Orijen, Acana, etc…) and not the typical vet-endorsed Science Diet or anything like that.

Anyway, it was a frustrating visit. I just wanted to know if anyone else’s vet had said these things about processed foods being easier to digest for their dogs.

[Leah12345]

Thank you Shasta220! I wasn’t kidding when I said I didn’t know what I was doing. What you said makes sense. I will keep fillers to a minimum. A neighbor recommended Earthborn grain-free so I will do some reading on this site about that. I like the quality of Fromm’s but she is a 12lb dog who poops at least 3 times a day and even thought the consistency is right, it is a lot of stool. Adding raw meats is a good idea. I welcome any and all suggestions!

[Shasta220]

I honestly wouldn’t agree about adding rice in. It is considered a “filler” food and provides little-to-no nutritional value to a dog. That’s something that’ll go right through her stomach and contribute to more frequent/bigger stools, really. I’d definitely say I agree with crazy4cats. This site can help out a lot with finding a limited ingredient super-quality food for her.
Possibly to reduce fillers even further and get a protein boost you could add in your own raw meats to her food?

[Shasta220]

Ah, I see. That makes much more sense to me for sure! Dogs don’t even need carbs do they – I mean there’s no carbs in meat, is there? I remember the vet asking what we fed our cat (she’s too picky for cat food), I told her raw chicken and she gets an occasional treat of oatmeal and peanut butter (it’s her fave, LOL!), the vet made sure I knew to avoid the oatmeal for her…

[theBCnut]

I switched him to Brother’s Complete. It’s specifically designed to help with gut problems. Soon after that I started giving him one raw meal a day. That’s how I tested out different proteins and such. For Micah, keeping him low starch seems to be a big component or keeping him stable. He can actually handle high fat just fine, but it took me a while to figure that out.

[Shasta220]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, I guess I was relatively on the right track. I always make sure real meat is at least the first 2 ingredients in the kibble that I buy.

Patty is right, slvet2 – dogs are designed to handle the raw meats very well, even better than cooked meat. Always good to consider what they would eat in the wild… I don’t think a wild dog/wolf knows how to build a fire and roast his venison over it.

Where do you find that dogs should have 2 parts carbs for 1 part protein? I just always find myself thinking about a natural diet they’d have in the wild, and I cant think of anything they’d naturally eat that would give them carbs, except possibly grain remnants in a stomach or something… Not that I know much about great nutrition, as I’ve never studied out dog nutrition or had personal experience too much.

[Sue’s Zoo]

I’ve been catching a lot info about commercial raw as I research whole food or DIY raw. According to what I’ve read some, including NV, include denaturants. They may not add it themselves but it’s there when they get it. At least that is the info I found from 2012. Bravo does not as theirs is essentially fit for human consumption. I believe Primal is the same. I would like to see DFA include this info when evaluating a dog food. Also some raw food providers sell denatured meat. If it’s a concern for you, just be sure to check your provider.

MPC clearly states that theirs does not. And I checked with RPI and they do not use denatured meats. Looks like Big Dan’s Trucking does.

Anyone have more info?

[Sue’s Zoo]

Well said Patty! I love my vet. But when it comes to feeding, they just seem to be following the typical path.

I started on this quest because EVERY single dog I’ve had in the last 30+ years died from cancer of a digestive organ. And they were on higher end kibble. There has to be a reason and diet is obviously the first consideration. Even though several of my dogs lived a ‘normal’ life span for their breed, some did not. And how do we know that normal wouldn’t be higher if all dogs ate raw and/or natural diets?

Since first discovering this forum when I wanted to find the best foods for my new puppy (months before he came to us), I have spent uncountable hours researching raw vs kibble and have found so much evidence supporting raw that I can’t imagine any other reason (except the one Patty mentions) for the AVMA to have a problem with it. Because even though I’m sure there are some feeding raw that aren’t fully balancing the diet and must choose lower grade food and less variety as they feed their beloved pets, I still cannot believe what they’re doing is more harmful than some comparably priced kibbles.

What has most impressed me is the obvious interest and care raw food proponents have shown in searching for the best they can provide for their pets AND their willingness to educate others. Most I’ve come into contact with are intelligent people who spend many, many hours researching and preparing the best food possible. I have yet to see one of them disparage another pet owner for feeding kibble etc. They have, instead, recommended the best possible kibble for their price point and offer suggestions for rotation etc to get as much benefit as possible.

Which reminds me to say thanks once again to all the wonderful people on this forum–Patty, HDM, RDM and many others–that spend time answering so many questions from others (me included) who are just learning about better nutrition for their dogs.

[RescueDaneMom]

Sorry I don’t have a lot of time to respond during the week. I just moved and started a new job and am still settling in to a routine.

Hot dogs, no matter the quality, are still processed meat. I try to avoid it at all costs. Most of the calories in hot dogs (80%) come from fat. They also have preservatives and a lot of sodium. I use nutritiondata.com to get a general idea of the nutritional profile of different foods. Giving your dogs eggs (raw or cooked) and fresh meats like chicken breast and thighs and beef is the way to go. As far as feeding raw, you shouldn’t be leaving the food down for anywhere near an hour. It only takes my dog 5-10 minutes to eat his food. The general rule of thumb is to let them eat for 15 minutes and then pick up the food. If there is any left, put it in the refrigerator in a covered container. You can feed what is left at the next meal.

That’s just my two cents. As always, I hope it’s helpful in some way. I share the same attitude as you- I am always willing to learn and I welcome those who want to share their knowledge with me.

[theBCnut]

No raw meat is not difficult for a dog to digest, raw meat has active enzymes in it that help with digestion. Enzymes are destroyed by the cooking process. And kibble can also be contaminated with pathogenic bacteria. Healthy dogs don’t have problems with bacteria due to their short digestive tract. It is people who have to worry about bacterial contamination and they are much more likely to be properly careful handling raw meat that they are handling kibble that they think is safe.

[theBCnut]

Dear slvet2

We are fully aware that the AVMA is perfectly fine with dogs eating kibble that is contaminated with salmonella and worse, but has taken a stand against raw, the natural diet of dogs. The kibble industry has deep pockets, and the AVMA is for sale.

[slvet2]

The American Veterinary Medical Association, does NOT recommend raw food diets for dogs. For more information go to the website: http://www.avma.org

[slvet2]

You are right, grains aren’t what dogs need in their diets. Grains are put into kibble dog and cat food as a filler, and the grain is used as part of the protein and carbohydrate analysis noted on every bag. Unfortunately, grains are difficult for dogs to digest (they don’t have four stomachs like a cow; multiple stomachs use bacterial fermentation to break down the rough grains). Dogs need easy to digest carbohydrates like potatoes and rice in a ratio of about 2 parts carbohydrate to one part protein in the food. This is easily accomplished by following simple recipes for homemade dog food-recommend a cookbook called HOW TO COOK FOR YOUR PET, c. 2009.

Raw food for dogs-not recommended by the American Veterinary Medical Association, and veterinarians. Possible food poisoning with Salmonella, E.Coli bacteria, and is poorly digested by dogs. Cooked foods are more digestible, and healthier.

[Shasta220]

Honestly, I get so confused these days. Grains are good, grains are horrible, certain grains are good, all are bad, etc etc.

What is the truth about grains in a kibble? Is an average GF food /always/ going to be better than a grain-inclusive food? Sure, I understand that many dogs have grain intolerances, but not every dog does. How are foods full of potatoes and peas really better than those with rice and barley?

I understand that grains are not a part of a dog’s natural diet, and they don’t need the extra carbs… But potatoes ain’t exactly health food either, eh?

Ultimately, I would love to do a raw home made diet for my dogs, but I won’t have the money, resources, or fridge-space for it until I move out. So for now, my dogs will have to stick to the kibble.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,
I’m beginning to wonder if this winter will ever end! Though it sounds like you’re having a rougher time of it than we are in St. Louis. And it sounds like you must be in a fairly rural location. But I think pulling out some of your less expensive cuts to get by is a good idea since you’ve already made a start towards raw. That’s just my two cents from a novice raw-feeder! The stories about your Maine Coon are priceless. I can almost see him as I read. Except for the obvious physical differences his personality reminds me of our tuxedo cat, Gizmo.

As far as managing the bones etc. based on what I’ve read I wouldn’t worry about one feeding or even several but trying to balance it over a week? Maybe longer since Mystery isn’t a puppy? I try to be more careful of the Calcium/Phosphorus ratios with two large breed, fast growing puppies because in a week they can grow significantly and in a month, one of them could easily gain another 10 pounds!

Good luck with the snow and food. Try to stay warm and dry. And keep me posted!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue ~
I purchased the book by Dr. Becker that Patty mentioned, but we’re going to have a setback here in one day – and a rather expensive one at that. We finally got our winter snow which means delayed freezer delivery, delayed food delivery from MPC – it’s been sent but UPS won’t be able to make it up the mountain until it stops snowing and someone decides to clear the road. Mystery has just two servings of chicken that will get us through Friday morning. I wonder if I should just thaw a flank steak and cut it up for him. Hmmm…

Other than the coming food shortage, everything seems to be going well. When I cut the chicken up, I weighed it out and put it baggies. When I finally get going with larger amounts of meat, I’ll use the vacuum sealer to create a variety of single portions. I’ve found that if I pull out portions two days ahead of time, they’re completely thawed when I’m ready for them.

As for clean up… that’s getting a little easier. At first, Mystery was a bit put off by the one paw out to be cleaned at a time. I use an old soapy rag to wipe his paws as he comes out and then use the same rag – washed and soaped up a second time, to clean inside the crate. He’s getting used to the routine.

The one with the biggest problem is Falkon, my little Maine Coon carnivore. I had been giving him some of the raw chicken but then read that feeding raw and kibble can create digestive problems so I stopped. He now spends dinner time slipping his big polydactyl paws between the crate bars and into Mystery’s bowl. Because he’s poly – he has the usual four “fingers” and an additional two “thumbs”, it doesn’t matter that his claws are clipped, he uses those opposable thumbs to snatch some food and even grabbed a bone that Mystery dropped yesterday. Mr. Mischievous!

I appreciate the list of meat to bone percentages you posted from the FB group. When I cut the whole chicken up for Mystery, I didn’t worry too much about the ratio, I just figured, if he found the chicken himself he’d eventually get around to eating the whole thing, skin and all. Using the calculation given, Mystery’s chicken was a little over 8 lbs., multiplied by 31% means there was 2.48 lbs. of bone. So now what do we do? I guess we are supposed to strip the meat from the excess bone. Next time. I can’t wait for the raw conference.

I took a look at the photos and videos you posted on phanfare. A.D.O.R.A.B.L.E!!!

Edit: I just took Mystery outside and the steps from the porch to the sidewalk are missing. Our footprints from when we went out two hours ago – gone. My boots sank upward of my ankles. Pulling out whatever red meat I have in the freezer.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[ExplEngineer]

Thank you for your answers. Yes, I agree that both portion, and intake must be controlled in these larger [OK, Giant] breeds of dogs.

I am curious as to why there is an objection to “Hot Dogs” as the supplemental meat? And this is an honest inquiry, not a challenge or in any manner intended as being disrespectful. I am just a bit surprised that an all meat product of turkey, beef and chicken (I avoid the ones that contain pork, as it is my understanding that pork can be a trifle difficult for a dog to digest). When the steer is headed for the freezer, there is always ground beef (minimal fat content) or the type of chunks of beef that I use in chili or stew. When I come up on them in the supermarket I will pick up chicken breasts or thighs to add to their food, and of course the lads love cheese omelets for their weekend breakfast (they were given raw eggs in their prior home and seemed to thrive on them, but I hate to leave any raw egg product down on the floor for more than just a very few minutes while the cooked eggs remain edible for the better part of any hour. I do have to admit to throwing in an occasional strip of bacon as a treat, but it is not in any way included in their dietary schedule or as meeting any portion of their daily requirements for nutrition.

Actually, on occasion, I will even eat one or two of the hot dogs that I feed to them so I don’t see that there should be a qualitative or a food safety issue, but I assume that there must be something about them about which I am neither aware of, or I would not even consider feeding them to the lads. Trust me on that, both of my kids tell me that if for some reason they are involved in an accident, their last and most important wish is to come back reincarnated as my dog (& they are both >30, college educated, and in good career positions so they are neither deprived,nor underprivileged).

I am in my 47th year of owning and raising Mastiffs, but I still feel the need to seek out better ways of doing so. Now being semi-retired, they are with me virtually 24/7/365, and members of the family and the last thing that I would ever want to do is to raise them in a sub-optimal environment.

Tomorrow is annual inoculation day for my older one, and I shall be using a new, but highly recommended Veterinarian, and I will make a point of having this discussion with him as well, but as with physicians and psychologists, all health care professionals are equally skilled in all ancillary facets of animal health and as with human patients, a wise physician will consult with a dietician in constructing an omnibus treatment team, so I looking forward to integrating all available sources of information, and their recommendations, into our daily routine.

TIA to both of you for your input, and for adding resources to my knowledge base.

[RescueDaneMom]

I agree with what Ana said. I have a Great Dane as well so I understand the challenge that feeding a giant breed can be sometimes. I would avoid the hot dogs too. I only use hot dogs (good quality, all meat, all natural) for very special rewards. It’s not something you want to feed all the time.

My Dane was always slightly overweight on kibble no matter what brand I fed or how much I reduced his portion. The best thing I ever did for his health was switch him to The Honest Kitchen and raw. THK is a dehydrated food. You add water and let it rehydrate before serving it. It would be great for traveling in your motorhome with. You can incorporate some raw food instead of hot dogs if the concept of raw doesn’t bother you. There are a number of high quality raw frozen foods out there. I like Primal and Stella & Chewy’s the best. I started making my own homemade raw food because it was cheaper for me.

If you want to feed kibble, definitely check out the 4 and 5 star rated kibbles on this site. Everybody has their preferences. A few I like and have fed my Dane are: Earthborn Holistic, Annamaet Grain Free, Go! Fit & Free, Acana Regionals (Grain Free), and Orijen. Others I like are Horizon Legacy, Dr. Tim’s, and Victor. I would feed the 7 month old a food from Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that are appropriate for a large breed puppy: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit All of these foods are 4 or 5 stars and have the appropriate amount of calcium for a growing large breed puppy.

Good luck and have fun with your newly adopted pups!

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi angele normand,

A homemade cooked diet is doable but you’re going to have to be really careful with the calcium/phosphorous. I’ve never cooked for a large breed puppy just adults so I don’t know how to go about making sure the calcium and phosphorous is at the right level. Hopefully Patty or someone else that is knowledgeable will chime in. Here is a website to get you started though: http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html This website has a wealth of info. I would go through it thoroughly. Also, the book “Real Food for Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker would be worth purchasing in my opinion. It explains everything about what canine diets need and how to make them. There are recipes for raw and cooked meals.

Good luck and good for you for wanting to do the best for your new furbaby!

[mountainhound]

This is what I use for my dog, hes raw fed but I feel like adding some vegetation can be beneficial, I also use it as a treat since I try to avoid grain based treats.
https://www.olewousa.com/

[Shasta220]

The above comments gave good suggestions (I will severely disagree with Royal Canin as well). I’ve never had a tiny dog, so I honestly have never had to worry about a 40lb bag of food go stale before my three pigs, er, dogs eat it all.
Don’t feel too pressured about Pedigree. All we could afford for the first several years was grocery store food as well. My lab has only been on quality kibble for about a year now, but she’s 12 and still going strong 😉

As long as the food has at least a 3.5 rating on this site, then I would say that I trust it. Possibly even adding some cooked or raw meat in with her food might help her bulk up a bit. If you get her on a quality kibble and she still is showing no weight gain in a few weeks, then it’s probably time for a checkup and some blood tests.

Best wishes to you and your little sweetie!

[FreeholdHound]

I wish I was as organized as Patty 🙂 Since Harry gets kibble in the AM I give him the coconut oil and/or sardine oil then, along with a probiotic and a joint health cap. I am also having good luck with Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form powder in lieu of his usual enzyme at the moment. In the PM he gets a raw grind/ kibble mix that includes tripe.

[Mom2Cavs]

I guess I’m lucky that my cat doesn’t get that many hairballs (once every 4-6 months!). I’ve never fed her an indoor formula. She gets grain free kibble to munch on and wet twice a day. Currently, she eats either Fromm Gamebird or Annamaet dry. Her wet consists of Wellness (she likes pate and cubed), Fromm 4Star, Mulligan Stew, Instinct Healthy Weight (only Instinct canned she’ll eat!). This morning she did eat a Primal raw nugget….Chicken/Salmon for felines….and loved it, thank goodness. I’d love for her to eat all raw, but she can be persnickety with it.

[Mom2Cavs]

You feed your new Shepherd puppy cat food? Now I will say that some dog and cat foods contain the exact same ingredients in some companies. For example, Fromm Gold canned foods are so similar between cat and dog formulas that I actually feed my cat the dog cans. Also, Mulligan Stew is made for cats and dogs. Another one I found I could feed just the dog formula to both is Instinct Healthy Weight. Theirs applies to both canned and their Healthy Weight Raw Boost kibble! HOWEVER, a Shepherd is considered a large breed, if I’m not mistaken, and large breed puppies have specific nutritional requirements. It would seem to me that cat food does not meet those requirements. They need special calcium to phosphorus ratios to grow properly. I’m certainly not an expert, as I have small dogs and one cat, but I have learned this. I’m sure others will post that are experts on the subject of large breed puppies. Btw, there is a list on this site/forum of foods that would work for large breed puppies and have the correct nutritional content. Good luck to you!

[theBCnut]

It would depend on the commercial raw that I was feeding. I use Darwin’s and their fat levels are not as outrageous as some, so I give coconut oil with it.

I use enzymes every day, every meal for one of my dogs, only with kibble for one, and not at all for the third. If I’m feeding green tripe I don’t give probiotics at all. Otherwise, I give my dog with issues every day, and the other 2 get them one other time a week.

I use index cards too, and figuring out how I wanted them organized was the tough part. I now have notes on commercial raw, homemade, supplements, Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine, kibbles, and probably other categories that I just can’t remember right now.

I also keep a file on my computer of the different foods that I’ve tried for Micah and their ingredient lists with the ingredients color coded for how he does on them. That’s how I was recently able to tell that it was tomato pomace that set him off when I tried a new food on him that I thought had only OK ingredients in it.

[Dori]

It’s okay to give dogs pork ribs? Oh my! I still have so much to learn. Do you add coconut oil even on days you give commercial raw which seems to have a lot of fat already? Or only every day if feeding kibble? I know enzymes are for when feeding kibble but probiotics are every day regardless of what I feed? Is that right? This really does make you (me) dizzy trying to keep it all straight. I started putting down things on index cards but I’ve got to figure out a better way to organize the cards now because it’s taking me forever to find what I’m looking for. It’s exhausting trying to keep it straight.

[Akari_32]

Good news! I dug up a coupon for the Nutrisca that good for the rest of our lives (ok, 2015, but close enough), and after some calculation, both the EVO and Nutrisca will last about 2.5 months for the 13.2 pound bag (EVO) and the 15 pound bag (Nutrisca), and after coupons are applied to each food ($4 off $20 for the EVO and $3 off any bag of Nutrisca and $4 off $20 for the Nutrisca), it would cost the same to feed him each. So we have two foods that I’m comfortable with mom feeding him, and mom is actually happy with the price after doing the math. Does anyone know if EVO puts out coupons?

I used this website to help me figure the over all costs, using the price per bag as tax and coupons applied. http://www.goldendoodles.com/care/food_calculator.htm It’s not perfect– it has the other dogs eating TWO TIMES as much as they actually eat, but its a start, and Bentley does actually eat what the bag says, given his activity and young age.

Also forgot to add earlier, the reason I’m putting this off on mom (I’m in charge of the dog food for a reason– she figures dogs do fine on corn based foods and expensive food is a waste of money) is because she is sick of watching Bentley scratch himself raw, and I don’t have the money to buy Haley special food AND Bentley special food, and still feed my 130 pound beast that is Dweezle. I told her she’d have to pay for his food, and she ok, what ever it took to get him to stop scratching. As I said earlier, I took her to the store today to scout out prices and whatnot, and she was very put off by the price of good dog food. Me doing the math just now for her actually seemed to lighten her up, and she seemed pleased about how long the food would last, given the price. I told her she could go back and forth between the EVO and Nutrisca and she didn’t make a fuss, and sounded ok with it. I’d still like to try him on the Pure Balance as a just in case food.

The good news for me is, I no longer have to feed her dog (why am I, a 20 year old college student, feeding my 40 year old mother’s dog?? I’d rather be broke than see him on dog chow.). Not feeding him means once I’m done with the Purina ONE Dweezle is on (long story short, coupons got me paid $7 for every 3 of the 3.5 pound bags I hauled out of the store), he too can go on grain free like Haley. With coupons, as high calorie food as I can find (and afford), and some major budgeting, I can make it work.

Anyways, with a little work, I’ve made mom see how its actually really cheap to feed a better food. Now if only it was that “cheap” to feed such large dogs on a college budget…

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[Dori]

Wow those are some good ones. Does your allergy prone poodle do alright with all of those oils? Just thinking of Katie my maltipoo with the allergies. I’m going to sound ignorant here for a moment, but how do you know when your dog seems to require more omega 3 oil. What should I be looking for. As you probably know I’m fairly new to all this and doing well or should I say my dogs are doing well with the commercial raws. I’d like to be smart about the supplements and oils. Don’t want to mess up too much.

[Dori]

Hi Coton’s Mom. I had an awful time with tear staining and rusty gunk coming out of all three of my dogs. Had all three to the vet who found nothing wrong with their eyes. The staining, etc. continued. I then took them to an animal opthamologist just to make sure my dogs vet hadn’t missed anything. Her diagnosis with the same. All healthy, no blockage, no bacteria. Both insisted that it had to be something they were ingesting (Food, Water?). My home has a whole house water filtration system. I followed someone’s suggestion (at this point I don’t remember who it was) and bought spring water using a reverse osmosis system. I then followed other suggestions of trying distilled water. I tried that. All to no avail. I was feeding my dogs a grain, rice, soy, corn, white potato, poultry free 5 star kibble. What turned everything around was when I was finally at my wits end and transitioned my dogs to commercial raw food. (Some day I’ll take on the task of following some of HDM’s recipes, too scared to do it wrong for now). That was approx. 3 months ago. All three dogs have stopped with the rusty colored eye debris. Of course there is some staining left (my dogs are all long haired breeds) but not near the eyes. Only on the hair that will need to grow out completely. If you’re a little concerned about a raw diet for your dogs as I was, once you get into it you realize how much healthier they have become and realize that WOW, the staining was the least of the problems on kibble. My 14 year old Maltese, Hannah, was listless, never played any more, just slept most of the time and I just attributed it to her age. Well low and behold, she is now running around, playing with toys, barking at anyone and anything that goes past our windows, playing with the other dogs, her coat is really really shinny and growing quickly (as are the other two dogs) and might I add their teeth are getting whiter and whiter. It’s truly miraculous and especially coming from a 65 year old mom of three precious dogs who was raised with the notion that you only fed kibble and if you found one that sort of worked ok you kept them on it, no and ifs or buts. So you see I’ve done a complete 180 on nutrition and health. I wouldn’t eat MacDonald’s day in day out (as tasty as they may be) everyday or I would be incredibly deficient in most all nutrient. My husband and I eat fairly well. Why I didn’t think that my dogs needed to eat that way is truly beyond me. Hope any of this helps.

[theBCnut]

Hi Lablubber
If you are serious about wanting to make your own dog food, check out the raw food section. Hound Dog Mom had blood hounds and the recipes she created on there are excellent and have the right amount of calcium for large breed puppies. After you look at that, if you decide you want something easier to get started, there are premixes that you just add meat and oil to, that you may want to check out. See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix is one. The Honest Kitchen Preference is another. And Dr Harvey’s Veg to Bowl is a third. Finally, Dr Karen Becker’s book “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” and Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” are great resources as is dogaware dot com.

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Bentley is once again having itching problems as the weather stars to warm back up. We aren’t sure if it’s chicken, grains, grass, fleas or a combination of any of these. He’s constantly chewing his feet and tummy, and scratching his neck and chest, and his skin is bright red all over his body.

We’ve got a little (really little) problem with fleas in the yard, and he gets maybe 3 or so a day just from going out side. I wouldn’t think it’s enough to cause a problem unless he’s allergic to them. He’s on Trifexis, which kills the fleas after they bite. We have stuff to treat the yard, as well that we are going to try. He does get pretty decent sized welts, but that could be from fire ants (the dog is pretty stupid– he likes to play with ants), so it’s hard to say.

As for food, he used to be on the red meat Innova Prime before the recall. And before that we tried just about every brand and meat/grain combination all sorts of brands there is in the area, ending with chicken without grain, and non-chicken with grain, just to be sure. We finally settled on no chicken and no grain as it caused him to itch less and his skin looked better, and used $10 off any size bag Innova coupons, which is the only way we could have afforded it at the time. He’s been doing good since then so I figured I’d try him back on chicken, and he did good for a month or so, so I tried him back on grain. For the last 3 weeks maybe, he’s been on half and half, grain free and grain inclusive, with mixed protein sources, and it doesn’t seem to help much, but it has helped some.

We aren’t really sure on the grass allergy either, as it all started to die off for the winter when it occurred to us it could be grass/weed pollen and started taking precautions for that as well (wiping him down with a baby wipe after going outside). But now the grass is starting to grow back, so I’ll have to see about that.

So basically, we have all of these possible irritants back all at once, and we are back to where we were last year: he’s chewed his back legs almost bald, he’s scratching himself raw on his chest and neck, and his sole purpose in life is to chew the bottom of his feet.

Since fleas and grass are easy to take care of (sort of), I need some help on picking a food. The only catch is, it has to come from Pet Supermarket. It’s the only place close that isn’t a grocery store. AND…. Around here it’s pretty much either Natura or Diamond for (“good”) grain free. Lucky me. Being so close to the South Carolina plant (I live in Florida), I have my reserves about feeding Diamond products, but he’s been on most of the TOTW formulas and my other dogs have been on Kirkland with no issues. Here’s my list:

Wellness CORE Wildgame
Taste of the Wild High Prairie PUPPY
Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain
EVO Red Meat Small Bites
Innova Natures Table Beef and Red Lentils (doesn’t appear to be available here yet, but I’d like to hear thoughts on it)

He doesn’t like fish, and it makes his breath smell nasty, or else I’d be able to add the CORE Ocean Fish in there, too. I was looking at Blue Buffalo, despite what ever they’re going through right now, but I’m fairly sure all their grain free foods have chicken, don’t they? Any thing else to add that Pet Supermarket carries?

If you could just pick one, because the chances of mom rotating are slim, which would you pick? And what are your top three, if I can get her to? And thoughts or concerns about any of these? Any other tips as far as natural flea treatments, itching relief, and whatever else goes are also greatly appreciated!

[Lablubber]

Hi again

So not to bother y’all again but tonight I went kibble shopping and the only brand of food besides Wellness that they had that was even remotely on the list was the Blue I am feeding and it didn’t meet the criteria either and the Wellness they had was only adult and no puppy much less lg breed puppy… So just as a beginning lesson for me, just what ingredients would someone go buy to start their puppy on raw in order to get everything they would need. Jess is 11weeks old….?

Thanks Lablubber

[Shasta220]

When you’re looking for meat, I’d recommend trying to ask around to find a butcher, hunter, or even farmer. They’d probably give you the best deal on meat and bones. I know someone who buys her raw meat from, I think, a butcher, and is able to get it for less than 50c per pound.

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz lover,

I do like Dr. Becker’s stuff. It makes sense to me and I like how she presents her information. The eggshell can be beneficial because it is a source of calcium. I do not give my dog the shell because I don’t buy organic eggs and I can’t be sure of what’s been sprayed on them. I just crack a raw egg into my Dane’s food bowl and mix it with his other stuff. He loves it. I will also cooks eggs over easy for him. He likes them both ways. The only dairy product I will give my dog is kefir because it’s 99% lactose free. He may get cheese if I need to give him pills. Other than that I don’t see a need for dairy. I don’t know why kibbles include cheese. Fromm has the cheese. Orijen has eggs. I’ll be honest- I’m not a fan of Fromm. Some people rave about it but my dog never liked it.

[Mom2Cavs]

Pugsonraw, I used the Advanced Joint and Hip once for Lucy (pulled muscle at the time) and it worked great. Mine get a Fresh Factor tablet every morning for their vitamin and their 3/6/9 supplement 2 days a week. I’m not using their Joint Health (the regular formula I use more often) right now because I’m using Annamaet’s Endure. I really like Springtime’s stuff. I also have some of their Bug Off Garlic, Bee Pollen and Spirulina on hand.

[Molzy]

Thanks everyone! Tonight went better. I decided to let him eat it in his kennel, hoping he would take his time since he doesn’t have to worry about it being taken away. It worked! He still gulps large portions, but he crunches all the bones first so I think it’s ok. His poops looked fine today (last evening was his first raw) so we are continuing on!

Gonna have to price out some organ meat and additional muscle meat to eventually balance his diet out, but for now he’s still getting breakfast of honest kitchen so I’m not too worried yet.

[Dori]

Since my dogs are on constant rotation of food be it protein or brands I will start giving it to her either one hour before or three hours after her evening meal. I’d never get away with making her wait an hour for breakfast she definitely would think I’d lost my mind. In the a.m. after walk she flys past me and literally throws herself into her kitchen crate and waits not patiently at all for her breakfast (all three girls eat in their crates a.m. and p.m. only way I know that they are each getting their full share). By the way, thanks so much for your posts on feeding dogs, through your posts I’ve been able to get all three of my dogs to eat raw rotating foods proteins and brands and any given time or whatever is in the freezer or fridge in a relatively short time (three months) and not one single digestive problem whatsoever. I just know to avoid poultry altogether because one of my girls is highly allergic to anything with feathers. She is also the poop eater so whatever she eats they eat too. For a while I was feeding her different from the others and couldn’t wrap my brain why she was still such a mess (itchy, gas, bad breath) then realized OMG! of course, she eats their poop. LOL. Lightning bolt hit me. As some said somewhere you and HDM should seriously get some time together and write a book. I have learned so much from you Shawna and HDM I feel like to ladies should be sending me bills for my education here on this site.

[weezerweeks]

My yorkie is hypothyroid and on soloxine. My vet checked his blood and sent off for a complete thyroid panel after he had been on it 3 months to make sure the t3 and tsh was working and to see if the dosage was right. My vet sent the blood to Michigan State but Hemopet with Dr. Jean dobbs is also a good place to send it.usually dogs that are truly hypothyroid have to be on the medicine for life but the dosage can change. Make sure you have the blood drawn 3 or 4 hours after her/his morning pill.also do not give the pill with food give it 1hour before eating or 3 hours after eating. I am reading the canine thyroid epidemic by Dr. Jean Dobbs and learning a lot. I recommend it for anyone who has a hypothyroid dog.

[Jazz Lover]

Thank you RDM, sounds as if you like alot of the info from Dr. Karen Becker as well?

You mention eggs, and she also says the shells are beneficial. Does this mean to break an entire egg on the food (raw) w/ shell? (In general dairy for me is another, like corn, I stay away from. I thought it was interesting to see that one, either Fromm or Orijen included Wisconsin cheese in their food.)

I went over to thetruthaboutpetfood, but the sight doesn’t seem as friendly for the first time visitor. Looking for the reviews on foods & lists.

Thank you again from Jazzy & family!

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz lover,

The general concensus is that it is safe to switch over to a food with higher calcium level at 10 months old. Orijen is a really good food. You could try the Orijen Adult when your pup is 10 months old. I also like Acana Regionals (Grain-free), Annamaet Grain-free, and Petcurean Go! Fit & Free Adult.

I give tumeric and omega 3s (fish or krill oil) daily. I buy my tumeric from Swanson’s Vitamins. You can get organic bulk tumeric by Starwest Naturals on their website. See my previous post to Lablubber for the article on Tumeric and dosage. You can give toppers with every meal. I would limit the fish to twice a week. You can also give eggs (cooked or raw) as a topper. You want to exchange the toppers with his food based on calories. Figure out how many calories the topper has and give him that much less food. Say the topper is 100 cal. Figure out how much food you need to remove based on the kcal/cup provided on the bag or website for your kibble. Ex- you would give 1/4 cup less food if your kibble is 400 kcal/cup. I hope I explained that well enough.

As far as what to look for in a food for your dog at 10 months and after is really up to you. I prefer to feed a high protein (30% or higher), grain-free (though not opposed to grain-inclusive if not fed all the time and high quality grains or pseudo-grains like oats, quinoa, or millet), and china-free ingredients (need to contact the manufacturer). I have fed my Great Dane Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, and Go! Fit & Free with no problems. Others that I would try if I still fed kibble (I feed raw and dehydrated now) are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis grain-free, Victor GF Ultra Pro, and Timberwolf.

I hope that helps. 🙂

[Dori]

Has anyone had experience with a dog with Hypothyroidism and the medication Soloxine. One of my dogs was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism by a traditional vet a number of years ago and was put on Soloxine. She’s been on it ever since diagnosed. I have to admit that I was very uninformed on nutrition and dogs until a couple of years ago when I discovered this site and have since learned a wealth of information. I’ve gotten a fabulous “free” education from the posters like Shawna, Patty Vaughn, HDM and others. My dogs have since made the transition to 5 star kibbles and as of about three months ago totally transitioned to raw feeding. Presently I rotate commercial frozen raw by proteins and brands and I add a few fruits and veggies. They are now at the point that I can rotate their proteins and brands with each meal (twice a day) and no loose stools or problems whatsoever. The change in their skin, hair, demeanor, food intolerances, etc. has been nothing short of a miracle. Now to my question. Does anyone feel that my having changed their nutrition completely my one dog would still need soloxine for hypothyroidism. Is it even possible that she no longer has it so that there is no need to medicate her? She is a 14 year old Maltese. She now acts as if she’s 14 months old. From reading on this site I’ve learned that so many illnesses and problems with dogs has been due to poor nutrition, and let’s face it, all the crap in commercial kibble, and have done a 180 on proper nutrition and good proper supplements. I’m very sad to say that I was one of the ignorant pet owners that was very proud to say that she never ever fed her dogs “people” food. In fact, it was bad for them. I bought into the kibble marketing as well as vets advise that kibble was what to feed and if you found a kibble that worked never change it. What an idiot I was. Now they get no kibble whatsoever and happy to say that to all the dog owners that I know that I gave erroneous information to mea culpa, mea culpa and have sent the to this site.