Backs are high fat and she can’t do chicken. But the idea is good, getting something like HK Preference and making food from fresh turkey may be the best way to go.
Nectar mom,
If I were you, I would go to the butcher, get some chicken backs and necks, turkey necks, any muscle meat on sale, and start from there. It is much cheaper than Darwin’s, and you can see exactly what is going into your dogs meals. It’s also a lot easier to tweak.
That is what I am afraid of with Darwin’s if the fat level is indeed what HDM has stated then to continue feeding it to my dog would only put her life in danger. Darwin’s tells me the fat is not as high as HDM said but at the same time I trust HDM advice too so this is why I am confused on what to do. I won’t be feeding the marrow bones ever again but I am stumped on the Darwin’s?
After pancreatitis, fat levels are a big factor in recurance.
Sleep hasn’t been my friend this week o I’m not comprehending. If the marrow bones caused the issue, why would you need to stop feeding Darwin’s? Just stop the bones; am I missing something?
You couldn’t have known that this would happen, so try not to be so hard on yourself. Yes, you can open the package, use part, and store the rest in the fridge for later.
I don’t know which way to turn now. Should I keep her on Raw from Darwin’s and only that or find a kibble that she can tolerate? I am pretty sure it was the marrow bone because before that she was fine the whole month on Raw turkey meals. The vet has her on Cerenia and Metronidazole and said she should feel better in a couple of days and she did eat this morning 1/4 Darwins and then this afternoon I gave her about 10 pieces of Brothers Allergy kibble but I don’t know if I should give her anymore or just let her system relax and give her some in the morning. If I open a 1/2lb package of Darwins if I don’t use it all right then can I put it in a baggy and use it later that evening? I just hate that I did this to her 🙁
That’s too bad NectarMom. Most dogs can tolerate very high levels of fat but they should be worked up to it slowly. Raw typically has much higher levels of fat than commercial food, so dogs should have their fat levels increased incrementally. Many raw meaty bones and recreational bones (especially marrow bones) are extremely high in fat and should be avoided until the dog is well acclimated to its new raw diet and higher levels of fat.
NectarMom, I’m sorry to hear that.
My one Chihuahua with intestinal allergies has mild Pancreatitis from the marrow bones. At least that is what the vet said it could very well be and Darwin’s also said it was more than likely the marrow bones since they told me the Raw turkey meals are 12% Protein and 6% Fat in a wet matter which Raw is and plus we have now been on the Raw for a solid month and no issues until the marrow bones so those who have dogs with intestinal issues just beware marrow bones are really high in fat.
Sandy, marrow has a high level of fat but it also has other things that have protein in them and the bone itself has some protein in it. Darwin’s marrow bones are pretty well cleaned off but not completely cleaned off.
Nectar mom, when I first started my Weimaraner on raw I gave him a lamb leg bone that was very fatty. At 2 am that night, he had gotten up twice throwing up fat and pieces of bone. Sometimes there is just too much fat. Are you new to raw? If so, your pups stomachs may have just not been ready to tolerate such a high fat level.
NectarMom,
Sorry to hear about the situation. I didn’t think that “fat” had proteins in it. So I’m not sure about an intolerance other than from the amount of fat itself. Maybe a limited amount of time with the marrow bones at first and then slowly let them have it for longer periods of time. If you think your dogs can’t have the marrow bones, you can get the marrow out by boiling and stuff the empty bones with something else so they can still gnaw on them – like yogurt or even stuff some of the Darwin’s turkey in there and refreeze so they have to work to get it out.
Marrow is very high in fat, so it could be that too. My JRT only gets the marrow bones after the other dogs have eaten most of the marrow. I usually give rib bones to her. I get mutton and goat ribs from Hare Today.
It was a beautiful day outside today and so I decided to lay out some dog pads and give the girls a Darwin’s Raw Marrow bone and 10 min after they were really into it Sally my tricolored chihuahua went across the yard and started throwing up so I took hers away and put it back up. The other three chewed on the marrow bone all excited and now 3hrs later runny poop everywhere and my one with intestinal allergies is bloated very bad 🙁 It looks to me we found the intestinal allergy protein to avoid with her. Just a few minutes a go (4hrs after the marrow bones) one of my other chihuahuas was in our bed and started heaving to throw up so I grabbed her and put her in the floor in time for her to throw up. It is looking like beef is not our best friend. Has anyone else had this issue? 3 out of the four of our dogs ate at least 1/2 the marrow out of the bone, did they maybe eat too much in one sitting? I know it seems I keep having issues with things introduced to my dogs but I am so frustrated with trying things that in some way keep back firing and causing my dogs more painful issues. They have no problem with the raw Darwin’s turkey meals so the only thing I can figure is that its because it is beef?
My dog with yeast, grain intolerance, and IBS issues got probiotics and enzymes with his raw and kibble until he was no longer showing symptoms for a while. Now he gets them a few times a week like the other dogs. I’m like Sandy, I feed whatever I grab out of the freezer. I do make a point of not putting the same stuff side by side in the freezer. My dogs get a different raw every day, but when I started, I fed beef for a week and then added in chicken, then turkey and pork. Now I feed about 8 different proteins, but I make sure I feed fish once a week, tripe once a week, and raw meaty bones two or three times a week.
Ox tail is great and yes you can freeze it.
Thanks Sandy I will look there today. I was at Walmart yesterday and only saw Ox tail? I wasn’t sure about it so I didn’t get any but it was a great price for so many and they were the perfect size and I did not know if I could freeze them.
NectarMom,
I found small marrow bones at Kroger. 1 inch to 1.5 inches in length and about 3 inches across.
Hi NectarMom –
Darwin’s turkey formula is 46% protein and 27% fat.
Well I would say you sliced that up pretty well. I got my marrow bones from Darwin’s and they told me on the phone they were 2-3 inches each and might I just say these things are huge. I have no idea how my tiny girls would be able to do anything with these. They need chewing exercise and I have no clue now what to get. I gave them a mercola soft chew and that thing had my one girl so bloated and my other one has started chewing on her side again after not doing that for so long. Acid reflux is back also and I am not sure what has caused that. I gave Raw yesterday morning and yesterday evening and Raw this morning , they have had no kibble since tues evening and thats when they had the mercola soft chew. I dunno.
My vet said I may have to cut down protein and fat. Does anyone know how much protein and fat is in Darwin’s Raw turkey. They get 1/2lb total each a day of Raw.
Everything I’ve read says to refreeze them not to boil them, that would be cooking.
Betsy,
Hmmmm…no answers for you on that one! I don’t believe I ever have half eaten marrow bones laying around! For large bones like a lamb shank, I’ve tried to rinse the grass and dirt off with just water and put them in the frig for a day and after that back in the freezer, dirt/grass and all. It gives them a little fiber and soil based organisms!
Hey guys,
I was thinking about sanitizing bones. We have about half a dozen half eaten marrow bones laying around today. They were inside and outside ~ they got dirty and gross. I was wondering how long was too long for a bone to be left out? I picked them all up, rinsed them off and put them in a big Ziplock in the fridge, but wondered if I should drop them in boiling water for a minute or something before I give them back to the dogs to gnaw on again.
Hi bigcoco-
If you check out the recommended raw menus thread you’ll see some of my menus. My most recent menu (located near the end of the thread) had a full nutrient analysis done and it exceeds the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. You can check out what types of things I’m adding to supply trace nutrients. I make my own whole food supplement my mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, wheatgrass and bee pollen – they come in powder form that I order from Swanson. I also add things like sprouted nuts and seeds, dairy, oysters, sardines, cod liver oil, etc.
I find that the cheapest way to add muscle meat is gizzards, hearts and green tripe. Although not very appealing to people, these are all quality sources of nutritious and cheap protein for dogs. I have three large dogs that, combined, consume over 6 lbs. of meat per day. About 90% of their meals are raw meaty bones, organs and things like gizzards/heart/tripe – I’d never be able to afford feeding them if they were getting things like boneless skinless chicken breast and lean ground beef as the main component of their meals on a daily basis.
Assuming you are talking about the Happy Hips jerky made by Dogswell, they do not contain 100 IU vitamin E per strip – they contain 100 IU vitamin E per kilogram. Meaning your dog would have to eat over 2 lbs. of treats to get 100 IU vitamin E. Also – just a warning – while I haven’t heard of any issues with the Dogswell brand specifically, a lot of dogs are getting very sick by eating jerky treats made in China and the Dogswell treats are made in China. Just be careful. I personally give my dogs a human vitamin e supplement. My dogs are all large (ranging in size from 68 lbs. to 110 lbs.) – I divide 2-400 IU capsules between their daily breakfast mix so each dog gets about 267 IU per day. I would say you could give your dog a 200 IU capsule daily or a 400 IU capsule every other day.
Cooked turkey wings can definitely splinter, no problem raw.
Patty, ok thanks for the reassurance. I kept reading that turkey wings can splinter so I just wanted to make sure.
I definitely give turkey wings, I even feed turkey legs, well actually since I got my new meat cleaver, I feed whole turkeys, in pieces of course.
Pugmomsandy- ok great! Shadows definitely not a gulper so I’ll see how he does with it tonight. Are they safe for teeth?
Turkey wings are safe to eat as long as your dog is not a gulper!
Are turkey wings safe to give?
pugmomsandy,
I placed my order for Xkaliber and tripe/trachea/gullet mix after reading that’s what HDM feeds her dogs, I figured the more variety the better. One of my shelties had dental work done so I have to be careful not to feed hard chews. They don’t care for the dried trachea chews from pet stores, so I’m interested to hear how your dogs like the raw tracheas, maybe I’ll get some next time. It will be a while before I place another order so no hurry.
Sheltiesmom,
I haven’t given them yet. This is my first time ordering them (trachea and cow hooves). I already have a tube of tripe and a tub of homemade raw thawing out so I will try the new stuff out later. But I have used the GT.com tripe (regular and xcaliber). I now have a local source for tripe so I probably won’t be ordering that particular item from GT.com. I’ll post some pictures next week of the trachea and cow hooves. I saw the calf ribs while I was picking up my order and your dog could definitely eat those. They were about the width of lamb ribs which mine have eaten before.
Hi Sheltie’s Mom –
If you’re feeding a balanced commercial food you don’t need to add any organ meat and I’d keep the tripe to 20% or less of the meal. If you’re making your own food organ meat should account for 10% of the diet (5% liver and 5% other organs) and tripe can account for as much of the other 90% of the diet as you want. Tripe has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio so calcium doesn’t have to be supplemented to account for the tripe. Organ meat is very rich in phosphorus and contains almost no calcium so you’ll want to add around 1,200 mg. calcium per pound of organ meat fed. Gullet and trachea contain mostly cartilage and a small amount of muscle meat – they have close to a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. If you’re just feeding trachea or gullet once in awhile as a chew, I wouldn’t worry about balancing the calcium to phosphorus ratio.
Thanks HDM, I’m learning so much from you and from everyone’s experience. Couple more questions, what is the percentage of the tripe/organ mix should I add to their food? And do I need to worry about adding calcium with tripe/organ mix? I understand tripe alone have the perfect ratio of calcium.
Trachea and gullet are great. Yes you’d feed them like chews. I’ve ordered tracheas from My Pet Carnivore – the dogs love them and they last a lot longer than the dried trachea chews. Trachea and gullet and both almost pure cartilage so they are high in glucosamine and chondroitin – great for the joints. The great thing about raw trachea is they’re very easy to slice into smaller segments for smaller dogs, you can just use scissors.
I want to order from greentripe.com and noticed the beef trachea and cow gullets, do you feed those like chews? Have you tried their tripe combinations?
The pugs can consume pork ribs and sometimes you can find small turkey necks at Sprouts. Greentripe.com has calf ribs I will try when my group puts in another bulk order. I just recieved from them a dozen beef trachea and a case of tripe stuffed hooves. I’ve also noticed that Sprouts cuts their turkey backs into 2.5-3 inches wide pieces.
Ox tail and wings are good for small dogs too. I have a 13 lbs and 2 40 lbs dogs. When I get turkey necks, I have the butcher cut off about 3 inches from one end and then cut the rest in half. I do the same with the ox tail.
Chicken backs are pretty big – usually about 8-12 oz. each.
My shelties are too small for the turkey necks, I tried it once and they couldn’t even crunch it down. I am afraid if I cut them up in smaller pieces, they would choke on them. They get chicken necks and feet, duck necks, which they can handle just fine. I will try chicken backs next.
Back when I used to show dogs, I knew this lady that made the fanciest tooled leather collar that you ever saw. My saluki had this Egyptian themed winged collar that I got from her. But the hound people went gaga over her rope collars and I never understood until I finally saw one on a foxhound. It was a simple twist of rope all the way around except where you normally fasten it. There it had this amazing knot that was incredibly totally adjustable and the ends were finished in monkeys fists. It had places to attach a leash and tags and just appeared to be a simple rope, but was so much more. I wish I could find a collar like it now.
Thanks Patty 🙂 That was actually my exact thought when I saw the collar – it was so hound dog I had to buy it.
Wow HDM
Your girl eats a turkey neck like mine eat chicken necks!
BTW I LOVE her collar, perfect for a hound dog.
My suggestion would be to just feed a quality food and brush your dog’s teeth. Feeding raw meaty bones will help or specially designed dental chews (in addition to brushing, not instead of) will help too. Other than prescription foods specifically designed for dental health (which contain low quality ingredients), there are no dry foods that are proven to improve dental health.
Sheltiesmom , couldn’t you cut the turkey necks to the appropriate size for your dogs? I plan to use PVC cutters when I feed bones to my girls but I just need to get brave like when I switched to Darwin’s , which was a HUGE step for me. I think we are headed in the right direction though 🙂
Well I am super impressed with the way they put that away so quickly. Gosh I so want to do this with my girls. I don’t have a clue where to begin though and where to get organic turkey anything around here. We have a fresh market but I doubt they would have turkey necks. My girls are so much smaller that your big beautiful hounds so I am just a bit intimidated by the bones. My smallest chihuahua was eating some of the Darwin’s and I heard her crunching on a bone so I called Darwin’s to ask them if that would hurt my girl and of course they said no. I know I will look back at this in a few months and maybe a year and laugh at myself.
I wish I old say I showed that to Steve but tht old gross him out!
Love the background vocals, too 🙂
