[Macro M]

If you have been fishing in Fisch long enough, you already know that not all legendary fish are created equal. The Cryoshock Serpent is one of those creatures that tests your patience, your setup, and your map knowledge all at once. It is elusive, dangerous, and absolutely worth the effort. This guide breaks down all Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch, how to reach them, and how to catch this icy monster efficiently.

Before we go deep, quick side note for newer players or anyone short on gear. Some players use PVPBank to buy Fisch items when they want to skip early grind and focus on rare catches like the Cryoshock Serpent. You only need solid preparation once you are hunting this beast seriously.

What Is the Cryoshock Serpent in Fisch

The Cryoshock Serpent is a high-tier icy fish introduced during winter themed updates. It is known for:

Extreme strength during reeling

Sudden stamina drain effects

Cold based shock pulses while hooked

Because of this, knowing Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch matters just as much as having the right rod. Showing up unprepared usually ends in a broken line and wasted time.

When Cryoshock Serpents Spawn

Timing matters. Cryoshock Serpents do not spawn randomly at all hours.

Best spawn conditions include:

Winter or snow based weather

Cold Snap or Frost style events

Night cycles have slightly higher spawn rates

Northern and icy biomes only

If the water looks frozen or surrounded by snow, you are probably in the right zone.

All Cryoshock Serpent Locations in Fisch

Below are the confirmed and reliable locations where Cryoshock Serpents can spawn. These spots have been tested across multiple event cycles.

1. Glacial Trench

The Glacial Trench is the most consistent Cryoshock Serpent location in Fisch.

Why it works:

Deep icy waters

High legendary spawn table

Less competition from lower-tier fish

Veteran tip: Fish slightly off-center of the trench. The Serpent tends to spawn away from common fishing clusters.

2. Frozen Abyss Lake

This lake looks calm, but it is deceptive.

Key features:

Thick ice edges

Sudden depth drops

Lower overall spawns but higher Serpent chance per bite

If you are patient, this is one of the safest places to farm Cryoshock Serpents without interruption.

3. Northstar Ice Shelf

This area is risky but rewarding.

What makes it special:

High difficulty zone

Faster Serpent bite rate

Strong environmental cold effects

Bring a high durability rod. Losing focus here costs you fish fast.

4. Frostfall Cavern Pool

Hidden locations often hide the best loot, and the Frostfall Cavern Pool proves it.

Why it matters:

Smaller fishing pool means less RNG

Faster hook confirmations

Ideal for solo players

The downside is accessibility. You need to know the cave routes well or you will waste time just getting there.

Best Rods for Cryoshock Serpent

Catching the Serpent is not about luck. It is about control.

Recommended rod traits:

High tension resistance

Strong stamina drain mitigation

Stable reeling speed

Avoid lightweight or speed-focused rods. Cryoshock Serpents punish aggressive reeling more than any other fish in Fisch.

Best Bait to Use

While the Cryoshock Serpent can bite without bait, your odds increase significantly with the right setup.

Best bait options:

Frost Lure

Glacial Worm

Frozen Minnow

Do not waste generic bait here. This fish deserves premium preparation.

Veteran Reeling Strategy

Here is where most players fail.

When hooked:

Do not fight immediately

Let the Serpent drain some stamina first

Reel in controlled bursts

Pause when shock pulses hit

Think of it like a long boss fight, not a quick catch.

Common Mistakes to Avoid

Even experienced players mess this up.

Avoid these mistakes:

Fishing outside winter conditions

Using speed-focused rods

Ignoring stamina warnings

Over-reeling during shock phases

One bad decision can cost a ten-minute setup.

Is Cryoshock Serpent Worth Farming

Absolutely.

Reasons to farm it:

High sell value

Required for certain winter quests

Prestige catches boost account reputation

Flex value in multiplayer hubs

If you are chasing mastery in Fisch, this fish is not optional.

Final Thoughts

Learning all Cryoshock Serpent locations in Fisch is the difference between endless frustration and consistent success. Once you understand spawn conditions, choose the right zones, and respect the mechanics, this icy serpent becomes manageable.

Like most legendary catches in Fisch, preparation beats raw grind every time. Set your rod correctly, fish smart, and let patience do the heavy lifting. When that Cryoshock Serpent finally surfaces, you will know the effort was worth it.

[Byrocwvoin wvoin]

Welcome to the world of Old School RuneScape (OSRS), a game where nostalgia and innovation blend to create a rich gaming experience. If you’re a fresh recruit to this evergreen MMORPG, you’ll quickly discover that the freedom to explore, craft, fight, and interact is at the core of its appeal. This strategy guide aims to equip you with foundational knowledge, effective pathways, and key tips to navigate your early adventure in Gielinor on OSRS gold.

Getting Started: Account and Client Setup
First things first—create a Jagex account. This account allows you to manage multiple characters across all platforms (PC, Mac, iOS, and Android). If you played RuneScape in its earlier days and remember your old login, you can still use it, although you’ll start fresh at level three.

Download the Client
Once your account is set up, download the OSRS client. For beginners, the RuneLite client is highly recommended. It offers valuable plugins like Quest Helper, which simplifies the learning curve and enhances your gameplay experience on cheap OSRS gold.

Tutorial Island: Your First Steps
Your journey begins on Tutorial Island, where you will learn essential controls, game mechanics, and combat basics. Master the controls—tile-based, point-and-click movement—and familiarize yourself with the various combat styles: Melee, Ranged, and Magic. Knowing these will help you adapt to different challenges ahead.

Pathways to Early Game Success
In OSRS, there is no strict progression path—freedom is key! Nevertheless, there are effective strategies to level up and earn your first profit.

Combat Training
Combat is vital in OSRS and can be efficiently trained through various methods:

Free-to-Play Training Spots:

Cows: Found near Lumbridge, they offer valuable hides and meat.
Frogs in Lumbridge Swamp: Require level 13 combat skills and yield decent experience.
Flesh Crawlers in the Stronghold of Security: Aggressive, low-effort training.
Quests for Combat Experience:

The Waterfall Quest is a must-do as it boosts your Attack and Strength levels to 30 without any prior requirements. Seek out other low-level quests that provide combat experience.
Money-Making Methods
To thrive, early cash flow is beneficial:

Herb Runs: Completing herb runs can be a lucrative venture, requiring minimal high-level skills initially.
Thieving: Stealing from stalls or specific NPCs can net significant early-game currency.
Skills Overview
OSRS features a plethora of skills, and understanding their benefits is essential:

Attack: Improves your accuracy and ability to wield better weapons.
Strength: Increases your damage output but doesn’t affect accuracy.
Defense: Reduces damage taken from enemies.
Range & Magic: Unlocks better weapons and spells, key for combat versatility.
Prayer: Essential for activation of powerful prayer abilities during battle scenarios.
Early Questing: Unlocking Essential Skills
Engaging in quests is crucial for unlocking skills and content:

Aim to complete quests like Rune Mysteries (for RuneCrafting) and Druidic Ritual (for Herblore).
Consider following an optimal quest order guide to streamline your experience progression and maximize early gains.
Exploring the Mid Game
After establishing yourself, you will transition to the mid-game. This phase involves questing for untradeable rewards, engaging in stronger boss fights, and delving into new skills.

Goals and Focus Areas:
Gear Up: Aim for gear upgrades through quests and combat.
Pursue Slayer: This skill unlocks higher-level monsters that often yield valuable rewards.
Embrace the Endgame
Once you reach the higher combat levels, you’ll be ready for endgame content like raids and elite achievements.

Key Endgame Activities:
Raids: A team-based activity that tests your individual skills and teamwork.
High-Level Bossing: Tackle challenging bosses that require advanced game mechanics mastery.
Conclusion: A Journey of Choices
OSRS is a vast and ever-evolving game experience, with countless choices to provide freedom in how you develop your character. From questing and combat to skill mastery and money-making endeavors, your journey is your own to shape.

As you embark on this adventure, consider taking advantage of community resources such as YouTube guides and the OSRS wiki. Remember to set personal goals, whether that’s achieving level 99 in a specific skill or defeating a challenging boss. Every achievement, big or small, adds to your unique story in the world of Gielinor.

If you have questions as you venture forth, don’t hesitate to seek help in the community or follow up with experienced players. Enjoy your time in Old School RuneScape, and may your journey be filled with discovery and fun!
RSGoldFast provides a simple and affordable way to buy OSRS Gold and RS3 Gold

[OmarI tani]

Tired of dealing with metal components that lack durability, break easily, or are difficult to machine? You’re not alone in this frustration—and professional heat treatment service supplier is the proven solution to these common manufacturing headaches. Many enterprises overlook this key step, only to face costly delays and product returns later on.

Our specialized services target these pain points head-on with a full range of processes. Annealing relieves internal stresses in metal parts, quenching enhances surface hardness, tempering balances strength and toughness, and normalizing ensures uniform structure. Whether you’re fixing faulty gears, reinforcing weak springs, or preparing raw materials for production, we tailor each process to your exact needs.

Serving industries from aerospace to automotive, we use advanced equipment and years of expertise to deliver consistent results. There are no hidden fees or vague promises—just transparent, cost-effective solutions that make your components last longer and perform better. Say goodbye to metal-related setbacks and hello to a smoother, more reliable production line.

[Lisa Smith]

Hey, I had a similar issue. I’m posting this because I had to do some research myself, too.

Glucosamine can definitely help support dogs with joint pain, especially as they get older or if they’re large-breed or highly active. It’s often paired with chondroitin and omega-3 fatty acids, which can help reduce inflammation and keep joints lubricated.

That said, supplements work best when combined with a balanced, fresh diet that supports joint health naturally. If your dog’s pain is ongoing, it’s always a good idea to check with your vet first to make sure there aren’t underlying issues like arthritis or injury.

If you’re looking for a gentle, natural option, Raw & Fresh has a line of joint and mobility supplements made for dogs with joint stiffness or age-related pain: Natural Pet Supplements

They’re designed to work alongside real food, not replace it. A lot of pet owners find this approach helps their dogs move more freely over time.

[Lisa Smith]

Hey there, I haven’t used them myself, but I saw that Raw and Fresh (whom I do use for their delivered dog food) has pet supplements now, too.
They seem to have great reviews and trust the brand, would be something I’d give a go for my doggo if I needed some supplements, respect the brand in AUS a lot- Natural Pet Supplements

[Gina S]

I have been using Evanger’s Beef and bacon canned as a topper for my dog for years. It had 3
Ingredients Beef, Bacon and water.
Now they added Guar Gum. I don’t think that’s a bad ingredient- but sad they changed it.

I also tried “Get Joy” raw freeze
Dried. He loves it! I’d give him a cup or 2 of it and then his
acana. Get Joy and all the good freeze
Dried are so expensive!! He gets it as a treat.

[Jerome Murphy]

I think when you cook boneless chicken, the calcium is missing. Options:
– Crushed eggshell powder (½ tsp per pound of food)
– Bone meal supplement
– Or use raw meaty bones if you’re experienced with raw feeding
Chicken is omega-6 heavy; dogs need omega-3s for balance.
– Fish oil capsules (1,000mg per 30–40 lbs of body weight daily)
– Or canned sardines in water (no salt) once or twice a week

[sean zhang]

The rise of sustainability in consumer products has led to significant changes in the way businesses approach packaging and disposable items. As an industry leader in eco-friendly products, Soton Straws is committed to providing [url=https://www.sotonstraws.com/product/st503-wood-cutlery/st50301.html]eco-friendly cutlery[/url]
that benefits both consumers and the environment. Our range of high-quality, biodegradable cutlery options is specifically designed to meet the growing demand for greener alternatives, ensuring that businesses can maintain a sustainable approach without compromising on quality.

Sustainable utensils made from materials like bamboo, wood, and plant-based plastics have numerous advantages over traditional plastic options. One of the key benefits of using these eco-conscious materials is that they are biodegradable or compostable, significantly reducing the environmental impact. Unlike plastic cutlery, which can take hundreds of years to decompose, environmentally friendly utensil products break down naturally over time, leaving behind no lasting waste. This aligns with Soton Straws’ mission to help businesses reduce their reliance on single-use plastics and contribute to a cleaner planet.

At Soton Straws, we also understand the importance of performance in sustainable utensils. While many eco-friendly alternatives can sometimes be perceived as less durable than plastic, we ensure that our utensils are both strong and practical for everyday use. Whether you are serving a hot dish or a cold appetizer, our utensils perform reliably, offering strength and comfort without the negative environmental impact. This makes our products ideal for restaurants, cafes, and food vendors who are looking for eco-conscious solutions without compromising on quality.

The cost of sustainable alternatives to plastic is often a concern for businesses, but as more manufacturers adopt green practices, the prices of materials like bamboo and plant-based plastics are becoming more competitive. Soton Straws is committed to working with suppliers who prioritize sustainability while ensuring that our environmentally friendly utensils remain cost-effective for businesses. By offering affordable, eco-conscious options, we make it easier for companies to embrace sustainable practices and pass those benefits onto their customers.

One of the main driving forces behind the popularity of sustainable utensils is consumer demand. Today’s customers are more informed and concerned about the environmental footprint of the products they use. As a result, businesses are under increasing pressure to adopt sustainable solutions.By choosing eco-friendly cutlery from Soton Straws, companies can not only meet regulatory standards but also appeal to the growing number of consumers who prioritize sustainability in their purchasing decisions.

At Soton Straws, we continue to explore new innovations in materials and manufacturing processes to ensure that our eco-friendly cutlery is always of the highest quality. By continually improving the sustainability of our products and production methods, we aim to contribute to a future where single-use plastic cutlery is a thing of the past.For more information, visit: sotonstraws.com .

[Ivey Evans]

Hello I am at wits end and need of opinions, my Shepard has constant yeast issues due to allergies they think is good related I have tried. Signature. Chicken , then lamb , then open farm lamb, open farm ocean raw mix, then the open farm skin and coat what I plan on doing is. Going through the ingredients list and seeing what each of them has that’s similar so I can narrow down the allergens however I’m open to ideas and brands that are as hypoallergenic and skin supporting as they can get.

[A. Hoff]

Hello,

I have two siblings, altered female & male just turned 11. About a year or so ago I started realizing ‘wow they’re senior dogs I can’t believe that statistics say I likely have only a few years left’ and so I started trying to modify their diet to make it more healthful as I really would love for them to be around for way longer than average. We know their mom was a border collie. We believe their dad was likely a Lab mixed with something else my guess is Burmese Mtn. Dog but nobody knows. The female is 50 lbs & male is 60 lbs. The vet says they are basically at a good weight, he said just slightly chubby but nothing to be concerned about.. 6/10 where 5 is perfect.

For the longest time until they were about 9-10 years old my dog’s were fed the following divided among 2 meals (approx 7 am & 5 pm, I listed approx total daily intake)

1/2 cup kibble, Taste of Wild Pacific Stream (have used other brands/flavors like 4health/BlueBuff but have kept them on TOTW for proably at least 4-5 years and this one flavor for a while as they do well it seems) ~ 200 cal/day
1 can Blue Buffalo wet food (was using 4Health when they were real young but something happened and quality seemed to go down, there would be excessive fat and I switched)- alternate flavors mainly beef & chicken, salmon & chicken, turkey & chicken, and the ‘red meat dinner’ varieties but I’ve tried others like trout, etc. ~ 500 cal/day
1/2 – 1 egg ~ 35-70 cal/day
1/2 can unsalted green beans ~ 30 cal/day

Treats – would be a rotation of those “Milo’s chicken meatballs”, “Milo’s steak griller strips”, “Blue Buffalo baked biscuits (made w/ apple, bacon, etc. varieties), very rarely I would give them something lower quality like milkbones or pupperoni, etc. ~ 100 cal/day

Supplements – Cosequin/Dasuquin 1 tab per day since they were pups (had an older dog when they were pups they just all got one), PetHonesty 10-in-1 multivitamin & probiotic – 2 per day (they started getting this when they were about 3 or 4 because they would have somewhat frequent loose stools or incomplete digestion. It was weird they would take 2 poops on their morning walk, 1 would be perfect, the 2nd would come out 70% perfect and the last 30% would look like a slimy slug), I use “Missing Link” lightly for some extra fats and fiber. I started using this with a previous dog who would get itchy skin, it was recommended by the vet and seemed to do wonders for his coat so I have always sprinkled about 1/4 tsp on a meal at least 1x day.

Total ~900-1000 cal/day

What I started doing different..

I started feeding them 3x day. Same calories, I multiplied their meals by 2/3 and give them that around 7 am, 12:30 pm & 6 pm. I read it might be better for seniors and thought the 14-15 hours between their dinner and breakfast was maybe too long for them to fast.

I started adding more fruits and veggies – I take some carrots & fresh spinach and put them in a food processor and mince it up finely and give them about 1 tbsp per meal.

I started giving them bone broth, I get it boiling and then bathe the kibble and veggies in it and once it has cooled and the kibble has absorbed it and softened I mix the rest in. I also will add a few blueberries and mash them up whenever I have them, or sometimes a strawberry and put it in there.

I reduced the amount of wet food they get from 1 can/day – 1/2 can per day and substituted some real fat/protein that I make for myself (unseasoned). Mostly I use chicken leg quarters, ground beef, eggs, and salmon. I look up all the nutrition information and weight it all out so the calories should be the same as well as the protein:fat ratio should be very similar to the wet food.

I stopped giving them Milo’s & Blue Buffalo and other types of store bought treats almost entirely. I buy sweet potatoes and cut them up into little bite sized pieces (weighing about 0.25 oz each) and air fry them until they are cooked and soft. I also give them pieces of apples, bananas, pineapple, strawberries, or egg for some variety. Sweet potatoes are about 50-60% of what they get treated with and everything else I just named rounds out the rest largely apple or banana.

Supplements is all the same.

I’m just wondering if you think all the changes I made are positive changes or is there anything to be concerned with? Any recommendations for further improvement? They are very healthy for 11, only Rx they are on is my girl is on proin for incontinence for about 1.5 year and it controls it well.. I would say I feel I have noticed some improvement in their coat and energy and overall health but I don’t know if it’s just in my head.

I told the vet about the changes and they seemed to think it sounded good/fine but I don’t know they really listened to me or thought about it, surely it’s better than feeding them straight ol roy kibble like half the dogs they see..

Some things I read that maybe made me think to come and ask:

– Vitamin A in excess levels can be a problem for dogs? Could my dogs be getting too much from the spinach, carrots, & 10-in-1 vitatmin/probiotic?

– I read some warnings about giving them fatty meats and causing pancreatitis.. I assume everything is good with giving them a little chicken w/ skin or ground beef because the protein:fat ratio is roughly the same as dog food and it’s only about 70-80 cal/meal, 3x per day replacing the 1/2 can of wet food I removed with roughly the same ratios.. am I overthinking it?

[Sandra Senger]

The direct contact phone number is 262-242-0200. I just called today as I am a Snowbird who will be wintering in Central Florida and I am looking for a co-op to buy my Ross-Wells Titan frozen raw dog food.

[Sara Smith]

I follow Dr Karen Becker. Whilst everyone has an opinion I researched her thoroughly and everything she discusses regarding dog food and nutrition is correct. Whilst I am perfecting my dogs homemade, balanced meals there are times I need a freeze dried kibble whilst not as great as raw or lightly cooked freeze dried is the next best thing. It AMAZES me how many dog sites have a top 10 list and show awful food that contain fillers and by products! I will Not recommend or follow a site that shows purina….that’s one of the worst manufacturers in the business yet sites (maybe even this one) have recommended it. I went with PRIMAL freeze dried kibble as the ingredients were everything I wanted. Then I find out that they too sadly are unethical. They advertise guaranteed satisfaction on their packaging but when you attempt to return a product they come up with every excuse possible! My dog got diarrhea and I tried to return the expensive bag and they referenced a caveat on their website in small print! I did respond with the fact it’s not legal & the caveat needs to be on the product not on their website as I bought mine in a store. Then thanks to this site I read they were served last year by the FDA for several issues which they ignored….so out of principle I would never buy from a ‘family’ owned business that obviously doesn’t care cats and dogs health are in jeopardy…the only way to provide healthy nutritious food for our pets is to make it ourselves..

[Shirley VerStraete]

My Yorkshire Terrier was chewing one of these. I noticed he had chewed it to a small size. When I went to take it from him, he quickly reacted by swallowing it!! Since then his breathing now includes alot of wheezing, coughing, and sneezing. He sounds like he’s also got alot of phlegm. Called his regular vet who can’t get him scheduled for another 2 weeks!!! Thankfully he can still eat his kibble and I’ve not seen any problems with his eating or drinking water, or his bowels. We are on the cancellation list, , DON’T GIVE TO A SMALL DOG! Especially the breeds that have might trouble with a collapsed trachea. There is no warning on the package and the package says they are suitable for small 11-15 lb dogs. I never should have given it to him since I was already aware of the potential problem of rawhide chews, which I now understand these are made of.

[Ramesh Kumar]

Hi there,

It’s great to hear you’re committed to feeding your dog a raw diet! Here’s a few suggestions for your superfood mix and probiotics:

1. pHresh Greens Raw Alkalizing Superfood: If it contains safe ingredients for dogs, it could be a good addition. Always double-check for any ingredients that might be harmful to dogs.
2. Probiotics: Both kefir and yogurt are excellent choices for probiotics. Farmer’s market options are typically fresher and contain fewer additives, but store-bought can be just as effective if they are plain and unsweetened.

Your current diet plan looks balanced. Just ensure to monitor your dog’s health and energy levels, and consult with a vet or a pet nutritionist to confirm the diet meets all his nutritional needs.

[Anya Sleezer]

Hello, I planned to feed our new Pom puppy a fresh food, Raised Right Puppy food. It’s has 60% protein., 28%fat, 8% carbs. However, while shopping at an organic natural pet food store, an employee said this wasn’t as good of a choice for toy breeds because the protein level is so high. Something about it being hard on their stomachs or harder to digest. He recommended a food with lower protein. When I look on the dog food for Poms page, Raused Right is not included. There is only 1 fresh food and I noticed all of them have closer to 30% protein. I cannot find anywhere online where it mentions this issue with toy breeds. In fact, on veterinary dietician site I found that if a dog gets too much protein they simply break it down and eliminate it through urine. So, now I’m not sure what to believe and if this is a good food for a toy breed or if I should instead go with one of the brands recommended here: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/pomeranians/. I prefer fresh food, maybe raw to dry or wet. Any advice? Have others with you breeds fed them Raised Right?

[spaniel Mad]

Hi, the virus has nothing to do with feeding raw and TPMS or any other raw food,I have continually fed my 3 tpms raw amd other manufacturers all the way from beginning and through, personally would not ever feed dry kibbke ever again and a decent quality’s tinned wet food would be fine but you can also get freeze dried and aemi moist food fron Eden etc …personally just keep up with your sanitisation and rules and everything will be fine 🙂

[LuluandMango]

Recipe at https://www.munchbird.com/blogs/homemade-dog-food-recipes/homemade-beef-quinoa-dog-treats-with-coconut-oil
Ingredients:

1 cup raw ground beef
1 raw egg
1/2 cup cooked quinoa
1/4 cup hemp hearts
2 tablespoons chia seeds
1/4 cup plain yogurt
1 tablespoon beet powder
1 tablespoon coconut oil, melted

[LuluandMango]

Crafting Nutrient-Rich Raw Dog Food Recipes(2024): Munchbird’s Angus Beef Lungs & Goat Milk Recipe
https://www.munchbird.com/blogs/homemade-dog-food-recipes/crafting-nutrient-rich-raw-dog-food-recipes-munchbirds-angus-beef-lungs-goat-milk-recipe

[LuluandMango]

Raw Meat + Munchbird Dog Treats Food Topper (Egg Yolk Ball & Rabbit Ears with Fur) + Goat Milk +
Recipe at https://www.munchbird.com/blogs/homemade-dog-food-recipes/raw-dog-food-recipes-with-munchbird-egg-yolk-dog-treats-and-rabbit-ears

[Carly H]

Hello I know this is a few years old but can you possibly update it? My opinion is it’s the food! Science diet is poison and it’s killing dogs and has been! Big time. All the foods your vet will recommend – same.
Stella and chewy was bought out by a Chinese company last year and they have to crap too! Science diet is owned by I believe Nestle ! As in the candy company ! Mars as in Mars bars also own a lot of pet food companies and now a ton of vet offices are owned by them as well. They have no business being in pet food and anything related !
More recently though a ton of pet food brands are making dogs sick and exactly how your dog was/is sick is how these dogs are , same symptoms to the t! My exes moms dog recently was on science diet i/d like your dog and almost died on it . Same symptoms ! I told her to stop feeding SD and pray it didn’t do too much damage and her dog is recovering!
It’s likely a pesticide from an ingredient that all these different dog food companies use and outsource from the same source ! These companies will use the same sources for certain things.
None of them are agreeing to recall even though the cases are in high numbers and dogs are still getting sick and dying daily. They don’t care about our dogs and only about money . Candy bar companies shouldn’t be making dog food but even so there are a ton of other companies not owned by them that are making dogs sick right now. Purina , SD and Royal Canin being the top ones.
Stella and Chewys used to a great food until they were bought out, Acana and Orijen were also sold and bought by Mars and went to crap and there are many more!
Please if you haven’t already stop feeding these foods and best to stop kibble all together most of them use very high heat to cook the pathogens from the 4D meat they use in their foods meat that’s from other same spieces animal that the foods made for , and they have been euthanized! The proof is in the fact that dogs foods were testing high levels of phenobarbital in it something they obviously don’t put in dog food unless they are putting euthanized dogs in it since that’s one of the meds used in vets offices to put dogs down! Sick and diseased cattle are being used in dog food and finally plain old road kill! So i get why they heat up the kibble so high to kill all that comes with using this kind of meat source! However the high heat may kill all the pathogens but it also kills any nutrients in the meat and yes this kind of horrible meat does have some !
Once they kill it all they gotta add it back using synthetic vitamin mixes which they are fining to cause cancer and speaking of cancer the carcinogens caused by cooking the kibble to the point of burning it gives your pet a good dose of cancer causing carcinogens !
Don’t use kibble it’s so and as is but right now with this mystery issues going on that’s these pet Food companies are sweeping under the rug you can’t take the risk!
You mentioned your dogs doesn’t tolerate raw meat? Could you try a gently cooked premade ? Or possibly a synthetic free raw premade as opposed to raw from the store ? Keep in mind the detoxing period that there is with raw but after typically is all good. If your dog isn’t tolerating raw meat maybe it’s that particular protein that’s an allergy or too rich . Try rabbit meat it’s good for allergic and sensitive dogs . If you must use a “kibble” try an alternative like Carna4 though it may be a bit rich for your dog especially if it has pancreatic issues but if not carna is not kibble and it’s made safer . I use partial raw and a freeze dried raw called Simple Food Project and they make combo proteins and single protein formulas and my dog loves it. It can be rehydrated with water, raw goats milk or broth or eaten dry with a continuous water source available .
I hope this finds you and your pup living your best lives ever! If this isn’t applicable to your situation any longer I apologize and hope someone else on here can use the info!
Xoxo

[Mark B]

Try different types of meat I’d say, my dog really likes raw bison, but not beef for example. Never gave him wildgame since I’m afraid of parasites, but he likes cooked deer( I do get a few deer and hogs through the year with my M4 rifles https://gritrsports.com/shooting/firearms/rifles/m4-rifles/ ).

[Jessica M]

Get her off those foods..Iams Rachel Ray are both horrible especially for a dog with pancreatitis. Try Dr. Harvey’s Raw Vibrance. I suggest looking up The forever dog and do some more research what foods are good and what foods are junk food. Not trying to bash you, I hope you don’t take it that way. I am just trying help.

[polin K]

Have you found a reputable address provider yet? Please refer to Quick Draw

[aimee]

I’ve come across sellers of rawhide who insist their chews, made of corium, have no skin in them, insisting that corium is a tissue layer below the skin. This is incorrect. Corium is the middle layer of skin and is the layer traditionally labeled rawhide.

I think the people saying this simply are unaware of the structure of skin and parrot information they are given to market the product. Corium is not a common word, and the pet industry seems to be relying on people not being familiar with the term.

Dermis, however, is a word that I think most people recognize as referring to the skin, e.g. dermatology, so I was quite shocked when a company representative insisted their “collagen” chew was not made of skin, nor did it contain any part of the skin. The chew is dermis, NOT skin.

Baffling. Can they not hear what they are saying? Seems to me that the pet industry is gaslighting consumers. 

[Jc C]

Hello
I know this is an old post but my chorkie now 5 years old… Had the symptoms of every morning needing to put to frantically eat grass, lip licking air at night, etc.

2 months before she has pancreatitis over 1 week…

What works is
1- chicken legs human grade from grocery store boiled
2- I get the pure chicken raw dog food formula
3- 4 leaf rover Gut Guard and Protect which are soil based probiotics and heals the gut lining
4- a tiny bit of white rice to bind
5-a tiny bit of puree pumpkin

So I mix the chicken leg with the pure chicken raw formula which has some ground bone and organ… And cook them with the tiny bit of rice.

No more problems.

The pure chicken formula was too high in fat but chicken leg only was lacking some nutrients

Hope this helps.

The acid reflux was caused by when I fed her flax seed, brown rice and vegetables which are hard for dogs to digest.

[aimee]

Hi Madelyn,

I agree beefcheek is white after cleaning just as it is before it is cleaned. If you do not want to offer hide as a chew, then do not chose a chew that lists beefcheek as an ingredient since beefcheek is hide.

AAFCO does not address the labeling of dog chews. Manufacturers can make whatever claims they want, it is only if the chew claims to be food that an AAFCO definition can be enforced by the state, but enforcement is virtually nonexistent.

I agree that transparency from a company is desired, unfortunately inquiries regarding processing are often unanswered. For example, Redbarn replied to my inquiry saying they use “proprietary manufacturing procedures” and a “proprietary process”. I did not find that helpful.

It is understandable that people are concerned about the processes used at the tannery.
Fearmongering is rampant. For example, lye (NaOH) is a compound a tannery may choose to dehair the skin. Understandably the knee jerk reaction to that is that AWK!. But did you know is that pretzel dough is dipped in lye before baking to get that nice brown carnalized crust. “Scary” processes can become less scary when put into context. Rarely do I see it discussed that the same material from the tannery that is used to make rawhide can be used for human food production if the tannery has USDA oversite.

Rawhide and beefcheek are untanned skin; leather is tanned skin. I suspect leather is less digestible than rawhide, because tanning crosslinks the collagen. Prior to tanning, the processes used make it easier for tanning compounds to penetrate the skin. I suspect this may also increase the ability of digestive enzymes to penetrate. Who knows, it could be that skin that has been prepared for tanning is more, not less digestible than skin that hasn’t undergone these processes.

If I wanted to get someone to buy a traditional rawhide over beefcheek I could capitalize on that point and spin it further by saying beefcheek is full thickness skin from an area on the cow that has the thickest and densest skin. The collagen fibers are tightly packed together limiting the penetration of digestive enzymes. Rawhide is not only thinner than beefcheek which makes digestion easier, but that dense top layer has been removed allowing for better penetration of digestive enzymes. Combing those attributes with the human food production process used to promote deep penetration of digestive enzymes is what makes rawhide digestibility much higher than that of beefcheek and makes it a far better and safer chew than beefcheek…. It is all marketing spin.

Reality is rawhide is digestible; Beefcheek is digestible. Taken as a group neither is more or less digestible than the other. If the statement that “skin[rawhide] is turned into something that our dogs’ digestive system isn’t capable of recognizing and digesting ” was true there wouldn’t be multiple published studies reporting digestibility of rawhide as high as 99%.

Both digest slowly which is why if a large piece of either product is swallowed an obstruction may occur. To state that one is more digestible or safer than the other is IMO without basis and can endanger dog’s lives. Heck some beefcheek chews state right on the label that the product can cause an obstruction.

I personally only use skin based chews that have been sourced from and produced in the Unted States where processes may be more stringent than other countries. And I only use large flat flexible sheets to minimize chance of tooth breakage and my dogs only have access under direct supervision.

I completely agree with your final paragraph.

[Madelyn T]

Beef cheek turns white after cleaning, though. Granted, looking into the cleaning process to make sure no dangerous chemicals were used to clean the product is something I recommend with every chew before buying.

It is important to look for transparency when buying any kind of chew from any company. Redbarn, for example, is a company that provides Beef Cheek Rolls without bleaching, and their product specifically lists “Beef Cheek” as the first ingredient. It is also important to make sure that there is no “hide” listed in the ingredient list.

Secondly, the AAFCO is very strict about what is allowed to be labeled as “natural.” If a pet company has an all-natural product and wishes to display “ALL NATURAL” on their label, then, by AAFCO standards every single ingredient must be natural.

There are definitely bad companies out there who take advantage of the super small details that allow them to deceive consumers, but writing off an entire chew as bad because of unethical companies is also not the solution to that problem.

Making sure that the chews do not have any indigestible ingredients is an important step in the process of finding a reputable product from a reputable company. Second, looking into their process. How do they clean their products? Do they use any bleaches or harsh chemicals to clean or dye their products? How processed are their products? Is it like Rawhide, where leather makers wanted to make money off of product they would otherwise have to throw away? Is the main purpose of that company to create safe and healthy dog chews, is it a secondary goal, or a front to make more money? A huge part of the reason Rawhide is so bad for our dogs is because the skin is turned into something that our dogs’ digestive system isn’t capable of recognizing and digesting due to the intense processing it undergoes to become leather. Rawhide is treated with the same process our leather is up until tanning, so all of the chemicals that go into leather go into rawhide as well. Skin can absolutely be dangerous for dogs, but it usually has less to do with the actual skin and more to do with how the skin was processed before getting into a dog’s digestive system. At the end of the day, I have yet to encounter a chew that doesn’t pose a choking hazard. Evaluating the dog and making sure that they are healthy chewers is incredibly important, as well as constant supervision.

Another important understanding to have about rawhide specifically is that it shrinks to about half its size when it is dried. So, if your dog takes evem small chunks off of a rawhide chew, it will double in size while it is in your pet’s stomach. While this kind of concept is similar to a lot of different chews made for dogs, the biggest issue is the lack of digestibility. When you pair a chew that doubles in size when it sits in your dogs stomach with the lack of ability to digest said chew, you are leaving your dog with a blockage. While Beefcheek Rolls will expand in your dogs stomach, if bought from the right comapny with completely digestible ingredients and no harsh chemicals, your dog will be able to break it down before it starts to move towards the back end of your dog.

While our research into products and companies shouldn’t have to be as indepth as it is, we live in an industrial economy that does not value our lives or health, and that unfortunately applies to our pets and children as well. Using the resources we have to find the companies who care enough to do it right is very important, and unfortunately that also includes using the research to avoid companies who take advantage of the unawareness of pet parents simply trying to enrich their dogs. That being said, while due diligence is absolutely necessary, faulting pet owners for being in dark is not something I will ever support. Holding these companies liable and supporting our fellow pet owners should always be on the top of the priority list. We are stronger together than we are divided, and where we, as a community, put our dollar can be a very powerful and heavy weapon.

[aimee]

Hi j D,

Wow! Such interesting information! I have no real knowledge of the legal system, so I found this post very enlightening. Would sending copies of emails to the law firms involved in this issue be perhaps the best thing to do?

Bugs. Apparently, a big problem with these “body part” chew bars and such. Apparently, common recommendations to retailers are to freeze all stock, use galvanized steel, and add things such as bay leaves, diatomaceous earth, essential oil sprays and pheromone moth traps into and around displays. The interesting thing is some retailers are reporting decreased sales if the products are packaged … so some remove the manufacturer’s packaging.

Also, I couldn’t agree more regarding the need for direct “eyes on the dog supervision” whenever dogs are chewing certain types of materials. With rawhide I used flat flexible sheets larger than the dog’s head and I’ve even pre-softened a bit with water to prevent gum injury.

Sadly, like you, “My trust in companies and stores has depleted more and more in recent years” It is disheartening. I think there are some good people out there in retail, but I don’t think many have the skill set needed to objectively evaluate information and some seem to become quite defensive when someone else does the leg work and finds things they apparently do not want to see or know.

[j D]

I can’t see a way to edit my post #189903. I though wanted to add about my toddler comment. How dogs are like toddlers and that in daycare setting there was a standard that anything that could fit into a toilet paper tube was a choking hazard. To be clear, many dogs mouths are larger than that of a toddler and thus the toilet paper roll standard wouldnt apply. It was more of an example and a visual in terms of a toddler but the concept could also apply for dogs but should be considered in slightly different way…

Meaning, if your dog can fit it into its mouth, it can likely fit it into its throat, being a rawhide or any other item. Ive seen xrays of dogs who have swallowed whole, all kinds of unusual things. NOT good. That said, something like a rawhide or even a toy could start out at one size, SEEM harmless and end up another size as it is gnawed and slobbered on. and or the dog may at first see it as something worth chewing, then instinct may at some point tell the dog “enough chewing, time to swallow”…

And thus it is imperative to monitor dogs at all times meaning EYES on them and their mouths AS they chew. And before giving them anything to chew on first ponder a bit about any potential hazards w/the material, the contents, the ingredients, the texture, etc to wonder a bit, if it in any way could be a hazard or could become a hazard, and then imperative to also watch as they use whatever it is and keep watching every time.

For example I gave my dog some toys earlier this year. I know his behaviors w/toys and am comfortable letting him play w/certain toys BUT this time he found a new way to “love” on his toys, he began gnawing off the felt decorations of a dinosaur plush toy. Because I was watching him, I could see that this was going to pose a choking risk and so I took that toy away and cut off the felt decorations of that and the rest of his toys because this became a NEW hazard for him, a new “behavior” for him and it was upon me to recognize this and act accordingly. I now when purchasing toys in the future will keep this in mind and either not purchase toys that have those extra parts or be willing to snip them off before giving him those kinds of toys.

I care about animals so much , so I wanted to be responsible by adding these notes to hopefully help clear up my earlier comments.

[j D]

ATTENTION ALL – I encourage anyone who believes this item/company is a hazard to IN WRITING, reach out to any and all companies that sells the product/brand. Perhaps ALSO email or write the company itself directly. PUT THEM ON NOTICE. Perhaps the more people the better.

KEY – Include in your concern these TWO phrases:
TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE and also
YOU ARE ON NOTICE.
And first word in the subject line, use the word URGENT to grab attention of the email receiver.

The two phrase are LEGAL terms that are often taken seriously by HQ’s and or should be, because they are meant to hold people to a certain standard in the legal world and thus getting an email or letter w/these words being used, SHOULD prompt any and all responsible stores, companies to actually address this concern and to do so in a timely manner or else be held liable if something bad happens.

Time is of the essence is essentially a legal term that encourages prompt attention, using that phrase shows a future judge that whomever is using the term is COMMUNICATING the need for promptness.

The phrase “on notice” essentially COMMUNICATES that whomever is receiving the concern is as of the date, AWARE and ALERTED of a concern and hence now anyone made aware of the concern and not taking appropriate action to mitigate the hazard, fix the hazard, can be held LEGALLY responsible, w/much more certainty than someone who claims in a legal battle that they were not aware and makes the claim that they had no idea that their product on their shelves was a hazard.

Having this all in writing and pointing out in the email/letter to them, that not only are they “on notice” but that the email/letter serves as clear and concise documentation that can and WILL be made available for any and every court case that results from this product, thus it would behoove any all store owners and the company selling this item to FIX the concern PROMPTLY or potentially lose big and lose swiftly.

As I recall it was Amy who had done all the great research, perhaps she could provide somewhere that people could send a copy of these emails/letters that they have sent to store owners and the main company, so that if there ever be a need, the proper authorities wont have to seek them out and potentially miss out on having them to use in court.

Worth noting, it is a common strategy for attorneys to defend their clients by telling judges their client had no idea they were doing anything wrong. it is then upon the claimant, that is to say the person/people who filed the lawsuit, to then move forward and PROVE that actually the company did indeed know they were doing something wrong.

Defendants attorneys do NOT offer up guilt, the attorneys job is to DEFEND their client, which in so many cases in so many courts, equates to NOT honesty and accountability but rather defendants are advised to deny, deny, deny, unless and until they are FORCED by a judge to provide specific documents. Until then, its a war of attrition, a game of deny, deny, deny, make the claimant do the work, provide the proof to PROVE the case of wrong doing. That said, a claimant will have no way of knowing that anyone has put the company or stores on notice unless at some point the judge orders the company or store to hand over whatever documents the claimants attorneys request. That means tho a good attorney will need to request to see any kind of letter, emails, etc, indication that the company (or store) was aware the product was a hazard. A good atty would also look into complaints filed about the company and this is where it would be helpful if Amy could provide somewhere that people can simply forward a copy of their concern emails TO as simply as possible so that they can be sitting somewhere meaningful on file as a record for any future atty to use easily to hold the company and stores accountable.

I almost purchased one of these “no hide” items recently. I was thrilled to discover these in the store. My first impression, I was disappointed and disgusted that there was no wrapper on them, but I minimized and dismissed my concern and was begrudgingly willing to try one despite no wrapper. As I was picking one out, suddenly a bug flew out of one and into another and I was so disgusted I opted NOT to get one after all because my concern at that point was that bug could be laying eggs inside of those, which could not only be ingested by my pet but also be released into my house and or that bug could be transmitting a disease that could harm my pet. When I saw on this post someone had a similar experience, of seeing I think it was called a “skin bug” it reassured me after reading Amy’s extensive research, that these are likely rawhides merely being marketed as no hide.

My trust in companies and stores has depleted more and more in recent years. WARNING, we really cant trust the hype. That “no hide” website was SO charming, so inviting and its just yet another example of how just like w/so much these days, politics, food, household items, just about everything , MARKETING, is designed and in place, to make things, people, products, SEEM, SO good, so trustworthy, MARKETING w/words, pictures, its all a big game, pull our strings, telling us what they think we want to hear, to manipulate and get us to buy their candidate, their product, support them in their endeavors, them gaining profits, gaining power, and we end up being negatively impacted as a result of their lies and or their carelessness. IMHO, so many of us have been wired to trust and believe that if its in a store, if its on TV, if they tell me what I want to hear, then it must be okay. Nope. it is upon each of us to SEEK OUT the facts from reliable sources ESEPECIALLY for upcoming elections and not just trust what we are being told and being sold in politics and on packaging, TV and social media, ads, etc. Facts ARE available as Amy discovered in this instance, people just have to be willing to do a little digging to seek out facts, to question and to push back when things do NOT seem or feel right or seem to good to be true.

For pets, when in doubt, I suggest check w/vets. These days I have multiple vets and I check w/several of them when I have a question, as they each have different opinions, experience and education, they tho are just one resource. I compare their answers, and go w/what seems logical and wise to me, I also rely largely on my own common sense to make decisions. I too tho am far too often too trusting. I am so thankful I saw that bug fly in and out of that “no hide” that day, cause that bug flipped my common sense “switch” back on after I dismissed my instinct about no wrapper being acceptable. For me, no wrapper was in no way acceptable for my pet and yet I was willing to trust the company’s decision to offer a treat w/no wrapper over my own instinct. We as a society are naive far too often in this way. Im “training” lol myself to NOT be so naive. That bug was yet another training lesson for me.

BTW I have seen comments here about HOW to give dogs rawhides… to me, common sense is that dogs are similar to toddlers, and thus it is my responsibility to keep mine safe in similar ways as a toddler when out and about, in the car, when feeding, around stairs, etc. It is my understanding that in toddler day care there is a rule that if something can fit through a toilet paper tube, then it can be a choking hazard for a toddler. That said, I literally sit w/my dogs when they have gotten rawhides in the past because they are each different in their chewing habits. One is a gulper, so I have to be especially careful w/him and have had to in the past, save him from choking on a rawhide that he was simply swallowing as is his instinct to do when it gets to a size he feels should be swallowed. I have learned from that terrifying experience. We as people learn as we go. So many of us don’t realize that each dog is different. Some just swallow, some chew, sometime habits change from day to day. One never knows when something bad will happen, so its upon us to make time and sit and WATCH them as they chew making sure that what they are chewing on can NOT be swallowed, can NOT be choked on because it is the dogs instinct TO SWALLOW, consume the treat in front of them. Same w/toys, my dogs gnwas off bits of toys and swallows those too I repeat its upon me to PAY ATTENTION, notice these things and adjust the toys he gets accordingly.

I have used rawhides as a tool NOT a treat. 10mins a day, I MAKE that time to sit and watch my dogs to ensure they have NO chance of swallowing the rawhide or whatever else they may be getting, same w/toys. We recently had a rawhide cause a gum issue, tear at the gumline because the rawhide was too rigid and that has caused a whole other set of issues so we have been off rawhides for a while and looking for another chewing option. I appreciate the Kong suggestions in these posts as this gives the dogs something to toss around, and slobber on but can be the tiny pieces of treats taht they cant choke on. Even w/that I will STILL WATCH as they play because one never knows if a problem may show up. All toys, treats pose a risk a hazard.

I personally NEVER by the Greenies, the brushless chewable type treats, that dogs can supposedly chew on for dental health because I don’t want my dogs swallowing the treat whole and choking on it or it causing an obstruction. My dogs arent obnoxious, they are simply seeing something yummy like that and their instinct is NOT to chew on it, but instead to just swallow that yummy thing, when I tried those, my dog chewed it maybe a few times then swallowed it basically whole and I then had to wonder and worry for days about that in his system. Not all of us know our dogs habits or what our dogs will do at any given moment so is best to stick w/something we know will NOT be a hazard. Knowing my dogs are sometimes gulpers, I have learned to now feed ONLY tiny treats that cant be choked on even if swallowed whole. I look for treats that if swallowed whole it will either disintegrate as it goes down w/the saliva breaking it up or it is so tiny (pea size) that swallowing it whole doesnt matter. They still get a treat but I get zero stress and scares in the process. I tho also take time to BRUSH my dogs teeth WEEKLY rather than rely on a treat to do that work for me.
Good luck to all!

[KelWolf]

Hi Aimee
Logical reasoning..I stay away from Processed Sugar & UNNECESSARY carbohydrates that yes convert into Sugar….
I did not say anything about Protein & Fat which are completely necessary & what they do Process..I didn’t include that regarding unnecessary carbs/sugar..
Whole Prey body parts good!
Unnecessary Sugar bad!

Dogs and Cats are Carnivores they do NOT process plant matter! Humans seem to think just cuz human foods are healthy it is good for their pet. Fact they are not omnivorous…They are both Biologically Scientifically Carnivorous by Design & they do not Process as the Herbivore does..Just as the Human Body is designed Herbivore (should not be consuming meat) Even though we can consume flesh the human body is not designed to Process it & flesh results in body organ stress health issues & sicknesses even death!
Carnivores are completely different by Design…so as the same for Humans Dogs & Cats consuming unnecessary foods does the same thing stress out the body & organs health issues & sicknesses even death!
Fruits & Veggies are high in sugar…there are some greens like pureed/powered Dandelion or Collard greens algae or other sources that can offer alil Chlorophyll or other benefits like Curcumin etc but very Lil is absorbed & has to be processed absorbable bioavaialable since they do not Process plant matter!
If it isn’t something that they would actually hunt in the Wild don’t feed it unless their bodies are safely able to absorb it without negative effects (health issues & allergies) like say Green lipped mussels can benefit even tho they wudnt hunt again as long as it is tolerated without harm
& One has to ask what would this pet actually Hunt!?!

Whole Prey is best & Yes one can add other wonderful things Nature can provide like herbs depending on how its converted & say the wonderful benefits of like Bragg’s Apple Cider Vinegar or Colloidal Silver in Moderation but if it’s not Species Appropriate then be cautious & stay away if overall harmful!
Processed Products processed for Animals most of the time add unnecessary ingredients coatings etc that will convert into Sugar so the more sugar added daily the more unhealthy issues will arise!
Their receptors are searching for something to help the body when something is lacking or when their bodies are in distress or when they are trying to feed a hunger craving…grass for an upset tummy they will either throw it up or poo it out! Wolves Coyotes will consume grasses & other inappropriate matter like berries just to feed the hunger if they have lack of or unsuccessful hunting of Prey but will not Process it..again instead it gets pooed out!
Even grass has sugary roots when consumed will add sugar which in turn will add yeast! Grains cause bacteria & yeast so stay away from grain-fed animals (prey). What goes into the Prey goes into the Predator. Again the Preys body processes the plant matter not the Predator!
Even feeding whole Prey one has to think how is the Prey treated fed harvested etc since it will be consumed by the Pet..everything is crucial so incorporating something unnecessary & harmful is crucial!
Like never consume Tap Water..Believe it or not some people don’t even realize not to…Tap water is cleaned with chemicals causing issues & Cancers etc…be cautious of everything!
So adding unnecessary ingredients just harms the body in many ways so to avoid it is best…Believe me I try to look at everything after seeing harmful results!
I research all the time & even find some things I thot were possibly healthy really aren’t but have to learn new everyday! Like unfortunately I have cut off ALL Tripe no matter what due to yeast issues since alot of Companies state grass-fed but don’t state grain-finished & some are both but may supplemental feed (grains or hay) during winter months causing issues & Tripe usually isn’t 100% clean & other Organs may affect the Pet as well…so again learning each day!
Adding Sugar on top of Natural Sugar & feeding multiple things with sugar & adding too much will cause issues. Feeding them feeds their Cells & everything matters when trying to be as close to appropriate as possible…mimicking to the best of our knowledge is our hope!
Also even when your trying to feed a healthy Raw Diet..if the pets body is compromised say from sugary yeast overgrowth/cancer/etc it creates a barrier not allowing healthy nutrients to absorb so No matter how hard you try to feed healthy it’s pointless & they continue to get sicker so they need to CLEANSE first & rid the body of the yeast in order for the body to do what it needs to do to heal itself & Cancerous Cells thrive on sugar..take Away the sugar source better the chance the Cancerous Cells will die or return back healthy & new healthy cells will thrive at long as there is time!
Just cuz Dogs & some cats will eat pretty much anything doesnt mean it is good for them..& they are designed Completely different than the Human Herbivore especially the Feline..so feed as the body is designed & be cautious of things that will benefit (even tho they are not what they would hunt like ex Colloidal Silver/ACV)…just like for Humans Animals stay away from unnecessary/processed Sugar Chemicals & harmful products & the Body no matter Herbivore or Carnivore it will thrive Healthy🐾💛🐾

[Bob J]

expensive dog food always available. not purina(corn) $0.70 , raw chicken drumsticks $1 , raw hamburg $4 , top/bottom broiler $4 , many dogs fussy about eggs , no cooked bones.

[aimee]

Hi Keremms,

Thank you for taking the time to comment. IMO the primary reason the testing was inconclusive was because the regulatory agencies involved did not run tests capable of giving a conclusive result. Digestion study and bite force studies can not tell you what a substance is. Microscopy revealed that No Hide look “indistinguishable” from rawhide, but it needed to be followed up with amino acid analysis. And apparently, not being familiar with how rawhide is typically made, regulators were seemingly unaware that a pathologist can not identify rawhide as skin since identifying elements like hair follicles etc. reside in the layer removed at the tannery.

Unfortunately, IMO many missteps were made along the way. Penn. regulators, apparently stated they missed that their pathologist referred to No Hide as “animal tissue” and needed to be shown that the label of the product they tested did not contain any animal gelatin after saying a finding of collagen could be from gelatin. Also, while they did protein and starch analysis and found No Hide similar to rawhide, they failed to test moisture content which muddied the waters of interpretation and after watching a production run, apparently never had sent a roll they witnessed being made to pathology to compare it to an “off the shelf” product. My understanding is that they seemed willing to do follow up amino acid testing but later apparently said they had run out of money.

It is hard to know why an AA analysis was not done. IMO it was simply lack of knowledge and experience in testing unknowns.

I fully agree with you when you said ” It is essential for regulatory agencies to follow through and conduct further investigations or request additional testing when faced with inconclusive results to reach a definitive conclusion”

[Dana O]

does Titan Premade Raw include the
bone? I figured not the reason for added calcium, but would like to know

[Amy N]

Does anyone know if there are any co-op’s in West Palm Beach Jupiter area or ft. Lauderdale area? Has Dog Food Advisor reviewed Ross Wells Titan? I have been feeding Steve’s raw and going broke? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[johanna B]

YES!! But I also feed raw so I think she’s just protesting! But, there has been a change in the dry I feed. Doesn’t even look the same. I returned two bags already, and may be re-thinking feeding dry at all…. If it looks different I refuse to feed. and It looks very different. Like the recent issue with Wellness discussed on another forum. Some said they still fed it. I wouldn’t.

[johanna B]

Hello, Sorry I’m so late to the party. 🙂 I’ve been feeding Titan Raw for about six years. My German Shepherd thrives on it. She’s at the perfect weight, she has a beautifully shiny coat, and unbelievable energy. Her favorite is the Tripe. I’ve tried to explain to her that she can’t live off of that alone, but you know kids lol. I feed the blue, and red and tripe twice a week. I also feed dry just because my pups 92 pounds, and I can’t afford to feed just raw alone. I would if I could….. I would love for the Dog Food Advisor to review Ross Wells Titan.

[crazy4cats]

Wow! That is very scary. I think Primal is a pretty popular food. The Vitamin D issue seems to be rampant these days. I wonder why?
Shame on them for not recalling all lots! Who can we trust these days?
Good point about people so concerned about the ingredient panel when they are often incorrect and manipulated to look good to us. While safety protocols should be of the upmost important!

While I haven’t fed any raw for years, thank you for the information. I hadn’t seen anything about it.

Where do you find this information?

[crazy4cats]

What a disappointment. There is so much evidence! I hope it gets refiled . It would be nice if people quit buying those expensive fancy rawhide chews and put them out of business!

[aimee]

I recently became aware that the class action lawsuit involving Earth Animal No Hide chew which alleges that No Hide contains rawhide was dismissed without prejudice.

From what I can gather,
this can occur when there is a procedural error, and the judge finds merit in the case. This gives the plaintiff an opportunity to correct/modify the error and then refile the case.

Certainly, this is disappointing. It has been over two years since the case was filed and now it appears this essentially means starting the process over.

Of great significance to me though is that the case was dismissed WITHOUT prejudice. My understanding is that cases which a judge deems frivolous, insufficient or lacking in evidence are dismissed WITH prejudice in that situation the case cannot be refiled.

I suspect, based on past behavior, that Earth Animal may leave out this detail and falsely declare “victory” just as they seemingly did when they claimed that “There are several, very thorough, governmental investigations that have all come to the same undisputable conclusion: Earth Animal No-Hide® Chews do not contain rawhide and are not mislabeled.”; a statement in direct contrast to one from the FDA report received through FOIA ” The statement that this is a “no-hide” product may not be accurate” David Rotstein DVM MPVM Dipl ACVP

[Gena M]

I have a dog with EPI. we are currently managing it using pork enzyme powder sprinkled over his food. I want to find a better diet for his condition. Are there any dog foods that are designed specifically for this condition?

Also, I have read that including raw pancreas in their diet can take the place of the powder. Does anyone know if any of the raw food providers use this ingredient or any that will tailor make a recipe for individuals?

• This topic was modified 2 years, 9 months ago by Gena M.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Since you have kindly shown an interest in my seizer, thought I would give you an update. I got the lab report for the blood draw last week, and his ALT and ALP are now back to where they were before I started the CBD Oil – about middle of the reference range. So that is a huge relief. The facts point very strongly to the CBD Oil having caused the rise, and this is a reminder of the perils of using substances with very little testing.
Also a huge relief is that it has been over a month since his last full seizure, and 16 days since the last partial seizure (or whatever those shaking episodes were). So the Keppra is really working so far. Keeping my fingers crossed that it continues to work. Thanks again for taking an interest.
I’ve been taking a bit of a break from my dog food research, but I’m sure in no time I’ll be back with more questions for you. M&C

[Chris S]

My dog Gracie has 2 favorite treats that I would like to share & hope that Dog Food Adviser would check into whats good or bad about them:

Blue Buffalo True Chews Natural Dog Treats, Chicken Bacon Recipe

SmartBones Mini Bones with Real Chicken Rawhide-Free Chews

She loves both of these. The Smart Bones really smell good enough that I havev been tempted to eat them also.

Thanks!

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for the CBD article link. The reason I did choose Joy Organics is because of their testing. They post 3rd party reports online by batch, and in addition to the Cannabinoid Profile, they also test for heavy metals, pesticides, mycotoxins, residual solvents, and others. What I use is a human product, and of course compute my own dosing. I can’t remember if Joy even makes a pet version. From the research I did before settling on Joy, I found that most of the companies who sold both said that their pet product was the same as one of their unflavored human products. But generally the testing was more complete for the human products.

Things seem to be moving in the right direction for my dog. No shaking events in the last 3 days and none so far today. I keep reminding myself not to let my guard down though. I reduced the CBD dose yesterday and today. If we get through today with no shaking I will probably go with no CBD tomorrow.
Good to know that ½ life information. If I can stop the CBD now then his bloodwork next week should be informative.
However, I had another thought/worry. Are you familiar with Bach Rescue Remedy? I learned of it from reading posts on the Canine Epilepsy Network forum, and also some articles. Seizure dog owners have found (they think anyway) that it helps dogs recover more quickly from a seizure and lessens the chance of a cluster seizure. So I smear a few drops on my dog’s gums right after a seizure, and for the first few days of the shaking events I did so during the shaking too. I wonder if this could have an impact on liver enzymes? I looked back at his seizures vs blood draws. First blood draw with elevated enzymes was 7 days after a seizure and the next blood draw (even higher enzymes) was 4 days after a seizure.
Here are the ingredients:
Rock Rose (Helianthemum nummularium)
Clematis (Clematis vitalba)
Impatiens (Impatiens glandulifera)
Cherry Plum (Prunus cerasifera)
Star of Bethlehem (Ornithogalum umbellatum)

If you care to speculate about the Bach, it would be great. He will almost certainly have another seizure before the next blood draw on 3/1. I probably should skip the Bach after that seizure, but that is really scary given the prospects of another cluster. Thanks. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks as always for taking the time to provide so much information.
The CBD I have been using is a broad spectrum, by Joy Organics and the total CBD content is 75 mg/ml (2,250 mg/bottle). It is $100/bottle, so does get expensive for a dog the size of mine. I’m hoping that these almost daily partial seizures (or pre-seizures?) will stop and then I will stop the CBD completely. His next blood draw is 3/1 so I am hoping that his liver enzymes will have come down at least a little. He went 2 weeks with no CBD and now has been on ½ the previous dose for almost 2 weeks. Hopefully that is enough of a reduction to have an impact on the enzymes. If there is no reduction, I will probably have an ultrasound done.

I’ve been doing more reading on partial, or focal, seizures. I’m not sure if that is what he is having, or if this shaking is just part of his pre-ictal seizure phase. The exact same thing proceeds his full blown seizures, which are classic generalized tonic-clonic. When he has a full seizure the shaking only lasts a few seconds then he goes into the seizure. Now the shaking lasts a few minutes, but no seizure.
Some sources emphasize that a partial seizure affects only part of the brain, so symptoms like shaking are one part of the body, or one side. With my dog, it is just generalized, pretty violent, shaking and he remains fully conscious. But other sources describe symptoms like shaking without loss of consciousness as part of a partial seizure and that it is fairly common for dogs to start with a partial seizure that then turns into a generalized. So, I don’t know . . .

We got through yesterday without a shaking episode, and today he hasn’t had one yet. Small victories, I guess. I do feel that these things – whatever they are – are not as hard on him as the seizures he was having. Just wish I understood what is going on. I’m also dreading the next full blown seizure and afraid it will be a cluster of them again. Sorry for so much seizure discussion (on a dog food forum).

I do continue to agonize over dog food too. I finally confronted Steve’s about the high calcium and phosphorus contents for their Turkey recipe (and Turducken to a lesser extent). I kept procrastinating, knowing that I would probably get a reply that would cause me to lose confidence in yet another company. No surprise – that is what happened. I guess it is more a matter of this food not being a good fit for my dogs, since I want to continue feeding turkey necks. So I am feeding less of Steve’s and will probably use up what I have then not buy more.

Well, sorry for the rambling (even more than my typical post). Thanks again. M&C

[KelWolf]

Hi Renee
Hope you see this…
I feed Halshan as well.. only I stay away from Anything that is or turns into Sugar…Veggies & Fruits are high in Sugar causing Yeast overgrowth & they are not Designed to Process them anyways & it can cause numerous Health Issues..like Spinach is Oxidative Etc so have to be careful…leafy greens can help with Chlorophyll but only tiny amount…their Tripe they have has that added…Fruits & Veggies Good for Human Herbivores not Carnivores lol!!
I think Logically..if they don’t Hunt it I don’t Feed it😆& when they eat Prey the Prey has already Digested the plant matter & only alil may be absorbed like the Chlorophyll/Fiber cuz again Carnivores do not Process plant matter

You may want to do a Cleanse to free up possible Yeast Issues inside the Body you may not see right now…Coconut Oil & Probiotics Help…
Always Cleanse the Body before Transitioning cuz Yeast Overgrowth Barriers will not allow good Proteins & Nutrients to be Absorbed
The problem with Gently Cooked is that ANY Cooking Depletes vital Nutrients & Enzymes & Cooked meat basically becomes a Carbohydrate Filler (like All Kibble which is All Carbohydrate…Highly Heat Processed all Sugar No Nutritional Value) which turns into Sugar feeding Healthy Cells turning them into Cancerous Cells & again Yeast & Unhealthy Health Issues…that’s why Humans shouldn’t consume Meat..so I Always do Raw for my Pets….
I do the Ground Rabbit & Ground Chicken WITHOUT Veggies & add their Beef Organ Mix for extra Heart & Kidney Tripe & Chlorophyll Etc Benefits
& also use an Omega Salmon Oil..I Only use Lifeline Salmon Oil.. Trusted for 10 Years now!

Researching Kelp now even tho they wouldn’t hunt it lol but for alil for added nutrients

& ALWAYS feed Grass-fed Grass Finished NO Grains (especially for Tripe) Grains cause Bacterial Infection Irritation Inflammation Etc
I will also add Beef Meat with Fat (Boneless) to level out the Bone intake if too much Calcium & the Fat is good for them just not too much lol😆Halshan doesn’t have just that so I get it elsewhere as long as it is Grass-fed finished too…but everything else
That’s why I like Halshan

I believe “Furlys” a Pet Store in Orange County California sells Halshan & Ships Nationwide!!
Hopefully I spelled it correctly..just Google lol
Hope all this helps Here if ya need..Bless your Sweet FurBaby
🐾💛🐾

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I’m not aware of any recent company restructuring by Nature’s Variety. I feel more confident with them as a raw company based on past interactions, their use of HPP across all diets. And as I recall they test each batch for pathogens multiple times during production using PCR, which is IMO, much more sensitive that culture. Finally, I believe they are the only raw food producer that employs a full time boarded veterinary nutritionist, Dr. Susan Wynn.

I agree the posted nutritional information appears very straightforward and professional I like that they provide information on a calorie basis and that the numbers appear appropriate. I didn’t see any errors that jumped out on a cursory view.

Copper content overall is higher than I’d like to see, and IMO, likely reflects the company’s feeding philosophy. I suspect it is coming primarily from the inclusion of organ meat. Interesting factoid, apparently copper in pork liver is in a form that cannot be absorbed by the dog.

Based on my understanding of the pet industry, vit/min premixes are a bulk commodity purchased from an outside source. I suspect they include copper at a baseline min value designed to meet an AAFCO profile when incorporated at a prescribed level. It makes no sense to include any more than necessary.

I do not think in most cases a premix is individualized to each recipe but instead the recipe is formulated around the premix. So, when I see foods that have a high level of copper and a supplement, I suspect the level is coming primarily from the ingredients and not the premix.

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I posted this same reply in the raw thread from which it originated. But answering here as well

If I had to name one area in nutrition that makes my head spin the most it is fatty acids. This is my understanding, but keep in mind my simplification of a very very complex topic may be incorrect, is that omega 6’s on their own are not inflammatory, but that they can be used as a building block for the body to make mediators of inflammation both pro and con.

Linoleic acid (LA) is an Omega 6 essential fatty acid (EFA) made by plants and is vital for skin health. Corn and soy are good sources, so animals raised on corn and soy like poultry and pigs can be good sources of this EFA.

Arachidonic acid (AA) is an omega 6 made by animals from LA. and is the primary building block for the production of inflammatory mediators. Dogs make AA from LA, cats cannot, so it is essential in this species, one reason dogs are classified as omnivores while cats are classified as carnivores.

The Omega 3, alpha linolenic (ALA), is made by plants and is the counter partner to linoleic acid (Both have 18 carbons). EPA and DHA are Omega 3’s made by algae,,but can also be made from ALA by some animals. The ability to do so and how efficient that process is differs among species.

. Here is where I’m not confident in my understanding but I think that when other structural FA are in short supply, cell membranes become saturated with Omega 6’s at levels near their dietary requirement. Meaning that higher levels of Omega 6 in the diet do not necessarily mean higher levels of Omega 6 in the membrane. Supplementation with Omega 3 is done to provide a different set of building blocks so that instead of the cell membrane being made with all Omega 6 it is made with omega 6 and omega 3. Now when Cox or Lox enzymes are present less inflammatory compounds will be produced.

So my understanding is that the key to decreasing inflammation is to provide Omega 3’s in the diet to meet the levels on a metabolic kg body weight basis that have been shown or believed to be beneficial for the condition you want to address and then because the Omega 3’s and 6’s compete for the same enzyme and metabolic pathways, control omega 6’s. so that the 6’s do not outcompete the 3’s for access to enzymes.

With that as a background I find the statement that chicken is inflammatory, baffling. Chicken can be a good source of LA, an EFA, and while LA can be converted to AA which then can in the presence of COX/LOX becomes a mediator of inflammation, on its own I don’t see it as a de facto source of inflammation. Nor do I understand the assessment that your dog is likely allergic to chicken based on a physical exam in the absence of any typical GI or skin signs.

In general, what I find in the holistic field is that a mustard seed of truth morphs into a sweeping overgeneralization which is then presented as fact. That is how I view this bit of information you were given.

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

Last year?? I called Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Royal Canin and Purina and asked for copper levels in multiple diets. Interesting to me, was that the levels from all three companies fell within a narrow range of as I recall ~3-4 mg/1000 kcals with exception of the therapeutic diets, which were much lower, and breed specific formula by RC was right at AAFCO min ~1.8. The situation I found with small companies’ raw/freeze dried raw offerings was vastly different. Like you I found wild fluctuations among the products they made with some near 100 mg/kg DM Wow just Wow

I first started looking because of a comment I read by Dr Sharon Center who said, as I recall, in her opinion, one factor in the rising cases of copper storage disease ( CSD) was the trend towards “natural” diets, resulting in liver/organ meat being used to meet certain nutrient needs and the side effect feeding high organ content was the high copper levels that came with their use. In contrast, I’ve found posts from random people giving advice on CSD to avoid commercial diets that have copper supplements and instead feed “natural” diets. Considering that I found that even though the commercial kibble made by the large companies listed a supplement, the diets had lower levels in general than the “natural diets,” that advice seems very reckless.

That advice reminded me of something I learned long ago. From a biological standpoint the natural diet is meant to sustain an animal through reproduction. After successful reproduction, it is in the interest of the species for the parental generation to die off so that they do not compete with the new generation. In other words, the natural diet may not be the optimum diet to sustain an animal long term.

I suspect copper levels may be lower in poultry based foods because chickens are slaughtered at such a young age so little time for copper to accumulate in their livers as opposed to cattle.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi again Aimee. Way back in the early days of this Topic, you mentioned Nature’s Variety as a raw food that you have confidence in. It appears that maybe there has been a change in ownership, or maybe just a restructuring of the company. I think previously the brand name was Instinct by Nature’s Variety. But now the packaging is just Instinct – the RAW brand. But from what I can make out on website photos, the fine print on the back of the bag does say “distributed by Nature’s Variety, St. Lois, MO”.

The Instinct website I find to be a little annoying in that they don’t even say where the headquarters are located or where it is manufactured. No mention of Nature’s Variety on the website. Even under “Contact Us” there is only the email address.
When I google Nature’s Variety I get a hit that looks like it will take me to naturesvariety.com but when I click on it I go straight to the Instinct website (instinctpetfood.com). Do you know anything about a restructuring of the company? If that has happened does it change your confidence in the company?

A few years ago I did feed their canned for a while (when it was Instinct by Nature’s Variety) and one of the freeze dried boosters. I think I tried the frozen. I can’t remember for sure why I stopped feeding it.
If I can get over worrying about my dog’s alleged food allergies (from the IgE blood test), then I think I may try the frozen again, if it remains a product you like. I’m almost there, regarding the allergies, and yet still nervous about letting go of that worry.

I had recently considered Instinct but I think even before the food allergies became a concern, it was the copper and Vitamin A contents that discouraged me. The frozen beef recipe has copper 59 ppm and Vitamin A 200,000 iu/kg. Chicken is more reasonable, but still fairly high at 39 ppm for copper (Vit A 67k). But my nagging inflammation concern definitely makes me more inclined to lean toward beef. Since I would not be feeding it full time, the copper now may not be a deal breaker for me, and in fact might balance out the diet nicely.

Their full vitamin/mineral data sure looks professional and at a glance I see no anomalies. I like the fact that they show the Omega 3 and 6 contents under the GA, plus a few vitamins and minerals there too.
But the lack of substantive info on the Instinct website does cause some concern. Maybe they are just in the process of restructuring and improvements will be made. Any thoughts you have are most welcome. M&C

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Mutts and Cats.