[Bobby dog]

C4c:
Purina loves to put fish in everything. But at least there is the Pro Plan Finesse chic, One Turkey & Fancy Feast Turkey varieties to give a whirl with the coupons (every little bit helps). I feed something with fish once or twice a week because the cats go on hunger strikes if I don’t; they are such brats.
Last Sunday I started giving my older kitty with hyperthyroidism kefir daily to see if that will help with his dry skin. He had a round of antibiotics about a month ago when he lost his tooth. He developed a small infection but had no other problems with the loss of his tooth and his bloodwork came back excellent. I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but I swear the dry spots don’t look as irritated. IDK…
If I had to do it all over again my cats would never had eaten any dry food, fish, corn, wheat, or soy. They would also eat pumpkin puree’ and coconut oil without any issues. Oh well, now I know better. I am going to give Chicken Soup a try for my kitties since you and Jakes mom have had success with it. They are getting tired of Wellness and Merrick. I am going to see if I can find out where Natural Balance and TOTW is canned too.

Akari:
I wish Petsmart was closer to me! ugh It just isn’t worth the gas even with the coupon because I just stocked up, oh well. They also irritate me because they don’t sell canned food over the Internet.
I think you will be fine trying some dry food. You know what to look for as far as his litter habits are concerned. I think the dry with the fish ingredient will be fine also. I feed dry too just not as much as they would like to eat. I actually bought three small bags of the Wellness kitten that has fish meal in it for $3.24 each that were on the clearance rack to mix in with their regular food. I couldn’t pass up that bargain! lol
See what happens when you give up on a cat!! Next thing you know they start doing what you wanted them to do; I’ll write it again, they are such brats. 🙂

[Akari_32]

Pure Balance is cheap too, if you don’t mind Walmart.

Ever thought of couponing? I get foods like Wellness for about $1.75 a pound (or less! Best I’ve done on Wellness is $2 for every 4 pound bag). I recently paid $30 for 30 pound of Pet Botanics, 20 pounds of cat litter, several cans of cat food, and a bag of cat treats. It would have costed about $150 with out coupons (which I’d never pay LOL). And thats not even the best I’ve done!

[Carl L]

So much to learn, crazy4cats, about our guy. And not just about food. We adopted him in November, and he came with “issues”. 🙂

Canadian Walmart does not seem to carry Pure Balance. So, so far, only Kirkland Cuts In Gravy at around $1 can.

As you say, good thing about Labs is they are not finicky eaters. My wife has Arrow chewing kale stems, for goodness sake. As long as we don’t discover allergies or GI problems, we should have a wide open field.

I think when we feel more confident, we will try to transition to homemade food. That will be the next research project. Ha.

Great people here.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Carl-
I think 100% canned would be fine if you could afford it, but just not the exact same canned everyday, every meal forever! The difference between the chicken and beef varieties of the Kirkland is very small. I think I paid $1.69 per can for the WEF and $1.00 per can for the Pure Balance that can be found at Walmart. If you do decide to go with kibble, adding canned, dehydrated, eggs and/or sardines is a great way to add moisture and more protein. If your lab is anything like mine, they will eat just about anything! Good luck. 🙂

[crazy4cats]

Hi Carl-
Welcome to the forum! I have two 2 1/2 year old lab mix dogs that are about 80 pounds each. I love, love, love Kirkland cuts in Gravy! It is a great value. And I don’t only say that because I work at Costco. LOL! I have learned from “hanging out” on this site for about a year now that it is best to feed a variety of food. I wish I had a bigger budget so I could get a little more variety in their diet, but I do the best that I can. So, whether you decide to go with kibble or canned, it is best to feed a variety of kibble or canned or a combination of both. There is an article about diet rotation on the review side of this site in the FAQ tab. Now, that being said, I will tell you that I have chosen to go with a combination of the two. I feed about 75% to 25% kibble to canned. Currently I am feeding Victor grain free kibble with either Kirkland cuts in gravy canned, Pure Balance canned, or whole earth farms canned. In the evening a couple times a week, I add eggs or sardines to their kibble instead of canned. These are all considered budget 5 star foods. Don’t be afraid to try something and change it up if it doesn’t work. Good luck!

[Bobby dog]

It’s always an individual choice as to what brand to feed, but I always like to pass on info I feel is nice to know as a consumer.

5.5 oz is 49 cents and they have the large can 12 or 13 oz??? for $1.00. Here’s some of the ingredients for Chic & Beef is: chic, chic broth, liver, beef, dried egg product, brewer’s rice, dried potatoes, barley, guar gum, flaxseed meal, carrots, cranberries, blueberries, apples dried chicory root, dried kelp, parsley, carrageenan, minerals are chelated as well. I have used all flavors and the cats liked them. But as with all the food I buy for them, they get tired of it so I do have to rotate or mix it in with the better canned food I buy for them.

I forgot to mention, but the 4Health canned dog food is excellent as well. It is 99 cents/can for 13.2 oz. Bobby loves all flavors. Come to think of it, I am not sure Bobby has met a meal he didn’t like! lol The lamb & salmon are pate styles and the others are a stew style with huge chunks of meat. They are canned by Simmons.

I mainly buy Pure Balance stews $1 and PB 95% $1.25, all 4Health varieties 13.2/99 cents or 22 oz/$1.59, and Earth’s Pride from BJ’s 8.99/6 pack for Bobby’s canned food. Anything else is from the 50% off rack or on sale. lol I scored 6 cans of Weruva dog food for $1.30 each last week that I was pretty happy with.

[Akari_32]

It’s here!!! I have about 60 pounds of food to go through yet before I can try the dogs on this (provided the expiration date is that far off. I should check that…. lol), but I’m super excited 😀 The bag isn’t as big as I thought it would be, though LOL I was imagining like one of those beastly bags of like Ol’ Roy or something. Nope! It’s not any bigger than a 30 pound bag of food (but it sure does weigh more!!) lol

The dogs are both eating lamb right now, so they’ll be getting a good rotation going lol Well, technically Haley is still on chicken (Wellness CORE), but she’s got just enough left that I can add in the Nutro Natural Choice Puppy Lamb and Rice under it, and then she’ll be on lamb. They’re basically just going back and forth between chicken and lamb right now, though I did nab 15 pounds of salmon Pet Botanics last weekend. I do have plans to try them on either the bison Pure Balance, or the bison (or maybe fish??) Nutrisource next. I guess it just depends on how much money I have in the dog food fund when their food gets low. I just spent it all ($30) on 30 pounds of Pet Botanics dog food, 50 pounds of cat liter, and a few cans of cat food and a bag of cat treats (let me just say, the Blue Buffalo cat treats: kitty crack! LOL). Not bad, though! Woulda cost me close to $150 other wise, so I’d say I did good lol Wasn’t expecting to spend my dog food fund so soon (just replaced it after all that cat food I bought!), but the dogs gotta eat and I got a SUPER awesome deal on that Pet Botanics, and I hate having less than two months worth of food put away.

[Akari_32]

I already do get the food and she pays. And the likely good of her having time to pick food up between estimates and permits is very slim. There’s no help needed in that department. You all are the ones that feel there is. That’s not my problem. My problem was wanting to know how Pet Botanics compared to Pure Balance. What’s available is what’s available. If he can only eat one food, then so be it. Thousands of dogs do it. Moms going to do what it is she’s going to do, and she’s not going to change it till she has to (ie, I move out). Case closed.

[Akari_32]

He did great on Innova Prime Red Meat (beef and lamb). The recall has made me reluctant to go back to Natura in general, but I’ve got some EVO coupons that I want to use. He did ok on the Purina One. He was on that because I was being lazy and I had so much of it lol But then all the sudden he got terrible red, itchy skin again, and then we’ve been fighting ever since to get him back to normal again. The Pure Balance is the first food since then that’s helped.

Good job! I’m actual my couponing right now lol the table is covered in coupons and I’m trying to figure out where to get the best deals :p (and when I say “covered” I MEAN covered!).

[Bobby dog]

Hey Akari:
Are the only kibbles Bently did well on are the Pure Balance GF Salmon and Purina One? Was that Purina One Beyond?

How’s Gary?

I have been a couponing queen this last week. I bought $140.00 worth of pet food for $100.00 and scored tons of samples from one of the Managers at a pet store I frequent that loves Bobby!

[Akari_32]

Oh, I didn’t realize the lamb had chicken. Must have missed that! I don’t think he has a problem with chicken fat, though. And if he does, the other dogs will eat the food no problems. I just hate for him to only be able to have one food, you know? I do want to at least see how he does on the new bison Pure Balance, as well.

[Akari_32]

He’s been on just about every food I can find around here, with all different proteins, and various grains and carbohydrate sources. I don’t think its so much a chicken and grain allergy as it is a pollen allergy (I’m sure he’s got a little bit of a chicken/grain intolerance, but I think he’s got more of an environmental allergy). He got much better over winter (and he was on Purina One most of the time then), and then when it started warming up and the grass grew back and crap started blooming, he got itchy again. He used to hate fish, so I never fed him anything with fish, but he seems to really like this Pure Balance, so he’s either gotten over it, or he just doesn’t like certain fishes… But anyways, I had mom try him on it because I thought the fish base would help his skin out, and it certainly has. And since he doesn’t like fish, I haven’t subjected him to any fish oil lol

[Shasta220]

Definitely see how he does, but compare ingredients. As itching is almost always a sign of food allergies. Hair loss and red skin most definitely sounds like an allergic reaction. Do you remember foods that you previously fed him that made him flare up? Try finding those on here and compare the ingredients to Pet Botanics, and to Pure Balance. A bit of detective work 😉 I know it seems like a lot to do, and it will probably take a while. But once you can get it figured out, and have a list of all the culprit ingredients, it should be easier to find a food that won’t make him worse.

Also, maybe to help the hair growth, try adding fish and coconut oil? I absolutely adore those…my dogs get fish oil daily, and coconut oil 4-5 days a week. Even my super sensitive greasy-but-flaky skinned lab has improved leaps and bounds on it.

[Naturella]

Akari, I looked at both foods, and they do look fairly similar. One thing is that the vitamins and minerals in Pet Botanics may or may not be chelated, which helps with their absorption – so why don’t you go ahead and get the food, it is a good price after all – and maybe see how Bentley does. If he really is showing progress with Pure Balance, you could maybe mix the two foods?

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! I was wondering what you all thought of the Pet Botanics dry food? Its on sale for $10 and I have a bunch of $5 coupons, so at a $1 a pound, you can’t really go wrong!

Given Bentley’s itchiness, and the fact that I’ve had him on the Pure Balance Salmon and Pea for several weeks and his hair is actually growing back, do you think it’d be worth it to try the Salmon and Lamb formulas of Pet Botanics? They’re pretty similar to Pure Balance, and rank the same 3.5 stars.

[Shawna]

Hi Cathy,

Sorry for the delay… The absolute WORST thing you can feed sprite bar none is any form of kibble. Kibble is hard to digest and because of the lower quality of the protein it creates more BUN when compared to an equal amount of digested protein from another source.

AND, your vet is incorrect if he/she told you to feed low protein in the early stages of the disease unless there is significant protein in the urine. Testing has confirmed that lowering protein too low can actually increase all cause mortality. They have also proven that protein does not damage the kidneys. Because of this you don’t need to feed “low” protein until Sprite has advanced symptoms. Limiting protein even at later stages does not help the kidneys but it does help with symptoms which are caused by the increase of BUN etc in the blood. Limiting protein is not helpful however in the later stages of the disease limiting phosphorus is highly advisable. Phosphorus builds in the blood and CAN damage the kidneys. In the earlier stages of the disease phosphorus is often not detrimental.

For the record, my pup has had kd since birth and has been on HIGH protein raw (45 to 54% on a dry matter basis) since coming to me at nine weeks of age. She will be eight years old the end of June this year and is still doing well. The only time she shows symptoms such as vomiting is if I feed her kibble. The Honest Kitchen is a good food but I’d go with Love or Zeal and add extra good quality fats like coconut oil to increase calories and make her feel more satiated without extra protein/phosphorus. Canned (or better yet raw) tripe is another good option and can be fed with the HK or as a separate meal (pending you get one that is complete and balanced).

As noted, increasing fat keeps the calories up while lowering phosphorus per calorie consumed. This is very important in the later stages.

Other things to consider:

I HIGHLY recommend a product by Standard Process called Canine Renal Support. Audrey has been on it since I learned of her diagnosis. It helps to keep inflammation at bay.

Give Sprite access to all the water she wants but do make sure it is pure — reverse osmosis as an example. Adding toxins in via the water source only increases symptoms. Science has shown benefit to giving waters higher in calcium with low sodium. They didn’t identify actual names but Evian seems to fit the bill.

I HIGHLY recommend giving a HIGH quality probiotic and a specific type of prebiotic (known as nitrogen traps). The combination of these two products helps clear BUN etc from the blood sparing the kidneys from having to do the work. It also allows for even higher amounts of protein. I use Garden of Life’s Primal Defense (human product) and Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber (human product).

There are other supplements that are known to be beneficial such as food grade activated charcoal, spirulina, burdock root, organic turmeric and more. I mix a combination of these and others with a digestive enzyme and some of the Sprinkle Fiber and add a bit to every meal.

The products you use in your home can be problematic too. When Audrey was diagnosed I looked at the CDC and material safety data sheets for product ingredients I used in my home. Many (if not most) of them were not kidney friendly so I got rid of them and use only ones that are not damaging to kidneys. Example — clorox has a chemical that can damage kidneys in animals. From the material safety data sheet “2-Butoxyethanol has been shown to cause red blood cell hemolysis in laboratory animals and secondary injury to the kidney and liver. However, humans appear to be resistant to this effect” Clorox is pretty toxic anyway so I don’t even have it in the house but if you choose to use it, might be wise not to use it to clean the floors as it can be absorbed through the skin. http://www.thecloroxcompany.com/downloads/msds/cloroxprofessionalproducts/409nqf.pdf

I know I’m forgetting some things… 🙁 Let me know if you have any questions. Also Mary Straus’ website discusses the data I’ve mentioned above plus much much more. Very valuable source of information. She lists kibbles but she fed her own KD dog raw and believes in raw. You don’t have to feed raw but I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY suggest avoiding going back to any kibble. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

You and Sprite are in my prayers!!!!

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by Shawna.

[Akari_32]

I’ve got a Jack Russell/Maltese mix with various food and seasonal allergies. I’ve tried just about every food on the market around here (most of the Innova’s, all the Wellness CORE’s, all the Rachael Ray Nutrish, Nature’s Variety Instinct Beef, and several other random brands with different types of proteins, with and with out different grains), and all he’s done good on were Innova Prime Beef and Lamb, and now, since I’m reluctant to go back to them since the recall, Pure Balance Grain Free Salmon and Pea.

I’m really surprised at how well he is doing on the PB. And its only $16 for 11 pounds (or $6 or $8 for 4 pounds?). His fur is growing back, and he’s itching less. My next step is to try some local honey for his seasonal allergies, and I’d also like to try the new bison flavor PB. I do also want to try him on EVO (despite the recall crap) because I’ve got some coupons and he did so well on the Innova Prime before it was recalled. They’re pretty much the same, just the EVO has much more protein. He really likes red meats. I think he was a wolf in his past life, taking down a rancher’s cattle LOL

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[RescueDaneMom]

Transferring my answer:

Hi MastiffLove,
I am answering your questions based on what I do and my knowledge and experience.

1- Yes, it is called green tripe. You may be able to get it from a butcher. For human consumption, they bleach the tripe which removes all the good stuff for our dogs.

2- Yes, you can grind necks if you don’t want to feed them whole.

3- Some people see vegetables as being optional. It is up to you if you want to include them. Remember that freezing can damage the enzymes in food so don’t keep food frozen for too long. I try to only have food frozen for a month or less. The Spirugreen is not a replacement for veggies. It is a green algae supplement. I wouldn’t freeze it. I would add it right before feeding.

4- I would puree fruits. You can feed in pieces but you will notice that some will come out just like they went it (example- the skin of the apple won’t be digested very well).

5- Sweet potato is a starchy root vegetable that has carbs. It can be used as a nutritious filler to bulk up meals for dogs that need a lot of food. It also contains high levels of vitamin a, vitamin c, and manganese.

6- Urban Wolf is a pre-mix that is meant to be used with meat only (no bone) as it contains enough calcium to balance the meat without bone. I believe Dr. Harvey’s is more of an herbal supplement and can be added to meat with bone.

7- I would suggest rotating different products for your supergreens. Try one then a different one. Variety is good!

8- Did you mean adding the product from question 7? From that quote I would think that adding some veggies is ok but not to overdo it. You wouldn’t want 50% of your pup’s diet to be veggies. I’d think you’d be ok having 5-10% veggies in the diet.

9- I would not freeze supplements like greens or fish oil. They may loose some of their effectiveness. I add my supplements right before feeding. I have the meat and/or meat/veggie mix portioned and frozen, then I thaw what I can use in 3 days.

I hope that helps.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove’s Questions transferred from /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/66/

Hi Sharon! I will be looking into the facebook group after we get our puppy, Zeus is his name :), cause our teens don’t know about it yet and adding that group to our facebook will certainly give them a hint lolll
Someone wrote (i think it was you!?): “Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list)”
What were you told?

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.
1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?
2- Can i grind necks?
3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?
4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)
5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?
6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!
7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?
8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?
9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?
*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi MastiffLove,

I am answering your questions based on what I do and my knowledge and experience.

1- Yes, it is called green tripe. You may be able to get it from a butcher. For human consumption, they bleach the tripe which removes all the good stuff for our dogs.

2- Yes, you can grind necks if you don’t want to feed them whole.

3- Some people see vegetables as being optional. It is up to you if you want to include them. Remember that freezing can damage the enzymes in food so don’t keep food frozen for too long. I try to only have food frozen for a month or less. The Spirugreen is not a replacement for veggies. It is a green algae supplement. I wouldn’t freeze it. I would add it right before feeding.

4- I would puree fruits. You can feed in pieces but you will notice that some will come out just like they went it (example- the skin of the apple won’t be digested very well).

5- Sweet potato is a starchy root vegetable that has carbs. It can be used as a nutritious filler to bulk up meals for dogs that need a lot of food. It also contains high levels of vitamin a, vitamin c, and manganese.

6- Urban Wolf is a pre-mix that is meant to be used with meat only (no bone) as it contains enough calcium to balance the meat without bone. I believe Dr. Harvey’s is more of an herbal supplement and can be added to meat with bone.

7- I would suggest rotating different products for your supergreens. Try one then a different one. Variety is good!

8- Did you mean adding the product from question 7? From that quote I would think that adding some veggies is ok but not to overdo it. You wouldn’t want 50% of your pup’s diet to be veggies. I’d think you’d be ok having 5-10% veggies in the diet.

9- I would not freeze supplements like greens or fish oil. They may loose some of their effectiveness. I add my supplements right before feeding. I have the meat and/or meat/veggie mix portioned and frozen, then I thaw what I can use in 3 days.

I hope that helps.

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good Great Dane breeder. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Bobby dog]

The pic is adorable. I love when they help out and lie on top of or get into things we are working on! He looks very happy and content. Very nice stash by the way!

I saw that Pedigree peaking out of your stash. Pedigree is actually what brought me to this site. My Vet sent an e-mail to all her clients about illnesses she had been treating that could have been avoided with better nutrition. She made up lists of suggested foods and what to look for in foods. I saw I was feeding my cats poorly. Then I looked into Bobby’s food and found I fed a good kibble, but not good canned; I was feeding Pedigree. So I went on a search and found DFA.

Bobby was yeasty, smelled like a bag of fish flavored Fritos, was scratching all the time, and had a red groin and tail area. I always put organic coconut oil on him, gave him baths once a week during flea season, and used a flea med but was fighting a losing battle. It never dawned on me to look into his diet. A month after I stopped feeding Pedigree his skin problems were almost gone. He is sensitive to fleas and still had small red bumps from bites, but his skin condition was 200% improved in my eyes. I mostly feed 4Health and Pure Balance canned now, you can’t beat the quality for a $1.00!

I just started a fresh garlic regimen for Bobby trying to stay ahead of flea season. Since he is not a smelly and itchy mess I am hoping he will not attract the fleas like he has the past two years. Fingers crossed!

I also saw the Purina One for dogs in your cabinet. I have been slowly putting together a grocery store list of canned foods based on ingredients alone from Purina (like the Pro Plan and One list I made for cat food). The only “One” variety that made my list was the Classic recipes. The Tender Cuts in Gravy contain meat by-products, wheat gluten, corn starch modified, soy flour, and added color. The ingredients I don’t like in the Classic Round Recipes are meat by-products and carrageenan. Neither line contains chelated minerals (I look for that in food) but the Classics would work for me if they have coupons or good deals on them. Here’s my Purina One canned dog food list if you’re interested:

Purina One Smart Blend Classic Round Recipes canned – non-chelated minerals, meat by-products, and carrageenan in each recipe:
Beef & Brown Rice
Chic & Brown Rice
Lamb & Long Grain Brown Rice
Turkey & Barley

My mom knows I have been changing my dog and cats diets so she started picking up Purina food for me with her coupons. At this time in her life the only outing she makes is to the grocery store; she is a coupon queen in her own right. She could not remember what I look for in pet food so I decided to work on a grocery store list for her. I do love and appreciate that she is thinking of us so the least I could do is make it simple for her!

[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Akari_32]

Purina One Beyond gets 3.5 starts as does the Pro Plan Selects Natural Chicken and Brown Rice. For the price, I’d have them go for the One Beyond. Sam’s Club actually sells the huge bag (34 pounds?) for like 30 bucks. Pro Plan runs about $50 for 30 pounds, if I recall correctly? Plus Pro Plan uses animal digest. That stuff weirds me out. lol

Give it a try! The lamb has more calories, than the chicken, if thats something you’re looking for. I’ve got Bentley on Pure Balance right now, the grain free one, and he’s doing good on that one, as well.

I’m trying to teach the cat to seek out attention, rather than run around the house causing trouble. This is the first time he’s ever come over to me looking for attention. He’s walked past to get a little rub on his way through, but he’s never stuck and round and asked for pets. I noticed he’s got a bump on the side of his neck that much be really itchy because he sure was happy to get it scratched! I don’t know if its a bug bite (I’ll be putting him on Comfortis when we go to the vet thursday), or a boo boo from Bentley always chewing on him trying to get him to play. I keep telling that dog that the cat’s gunna eat him lol

[Sheltie_Pom]

Thanks everyone. The vet gave me a 5.5 oz can of Science Diet and on the bill it shows that it was $2.20 for that tiny thing and then Ty (My Pom) didn’t even like it so I tossed it out to the other dogs that will eat almost anything.

I have been feeding him Pure Balance Chicken, Vegetables and Brown Rice Puppy and mixing it with his Purina Pro Plan canned that the breeder gave me. He is starting to eat hard kibble again and I think he prefers that so I am going to see if I can slowly move him back over to hard kibble. The breeder was stuck on Pro Plan, but I think it’s a bit over rated and expensive for the quality so I was thinking something along the lines of Purina One Smart Blend or Diamond Naturals.

I don’t know we’ll see. I have 2 $5 dollar off coupons for the Pro Plan so I may use it for my Sheltie and Shiloh my Sheltie pup in particular.

EDIT: I do like the Purina Pro Plan Sport Training Treats. Ty really likes those, but they are a bit expensive.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by Sheltie_Pom. Reason: Added more

[Bobby dog]

Yes, $4 good til Dec though. Sorry, I misread what you wrote, thought you were asking where the sample offer was posted. Are you able to over-ride their print limit of two?

I think I’ll print one for the Zero Grain to use when I go to Wal-Mart in the next few weeks and get a bag regardless of the flavor for a back-up. Fingers crossed for the new flavor.

Someone just posted a picture of the new Pure Balance single serve wet dog food. I’ll see if they have any of those too.

[Bobby dog]

Hi weezerweeks:
I feed the canned 12.5 ounce Pure Balance stews and 95% meat varieties to my dog. I do not think their is a DFA rating for the 95% meat Pure Balance, but I believe it is the same quality as the stew and would rate as well.

I have been feeding the Pure Balance canned for a while my dog loves them, does well on them, and I of course love the price.

I haven’t seen the tubs that you mention yet. Next time I am at Wal-Mart I am going to see if they have them at my store. I know they just added a bison flavor to the Pure Balance GF kibble line.

Wal-Mart and TSC drive me crazy because it takes them so long to update their websites with new products and not every Wal-Mart carries the same products.

[weezerweeks]

I just saw this and noticed the chicken dinner was a 5 star. They also have the chicken,vegetables and brown rice and the small tubs(3.5oz) of the chicken dinner(real chicken pate) and the chicken dinner in gravy with peas and sweet potatoes. They also had the lamb and beef. Are all these 5 star? The 12.5 oz can is $1 and the small tubs are .68 cents. This is a good price. are they all 5 star?

[Bobby dog]

Hi Sheltie Pom:
Glad you found what you needed for your pup! I have three Wal-Marts in my area and it never fails that the one I happen to be shopping at is always out of one of the Pure Balance varieties I am looking for. And to make it more frustrating for me they don’t offer the site to store ordering option for the Pure Balance canned food. My dog really likes it though, does well on it, and I don’t think he really cares which flavor/variety I am giving him, he just wants his food.

[Sheltie_Pom]

Thanks guys. I have been soaking his food in water and mushing it up then mixing it with a bit of canned. I picked up two cans of Pure Balance Chicken and Brown Rice Puppy formula and I have started mixing his food with that.

[Lynne F]

Following treatment for a UTI (her first infection), my vet now says my 16 mo. old JRT mix has struvite crystals in her urine. She is recommending prescription dog food. Instead of the Rx food, I have changed my dog’s food to Hill’s Ideal Balance grain-free, and am adding 100% pure cranberry juice to her water as an incentive to drink. Is there anything else I should be doing? And am I doing the right thing in NOT giving her the Rx dog food? Vet says UTI is cleared up after treatment with antibiotics.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

[crazy4cats]

Well, if you make the trip to Costco to pick up the Kirkland dry food, look for their canned cuts in gravy as well. You have to buy a case of 24, but it’s only $18.79. So, only 78 cents a can for a 5 star food. Can’t beat it! Also, in addition to pure balance, Walmart carries Variety canned food that isn’t too bad. It’s a little high in fat, but a decent food at a reasonable price also.

[crazy4cats]

The affordable canned foods I use are Kirkland cuts in gravy (costco) and Pure Balance (Walmart). Also whole earth farms is not too bad either. Good luck. I hope your idea works out.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I’ve been feeding the Pure Balance beef, veges and rice to my dogs as a topper, along with the Kirkland cuts in gravy for some time now. I think it’s a great value. It is only $1 per can and it is full of meat and hardly any rice at all. Although it does say adult on it, so if it is only food feeding, like someone else mentioned you would have to get puppy or all life stages which I believe they also carry. I have also bought Variety and Fresh Pet Select at Walmart in the past. Congrats and good luck. As you are finding out, pups are a lot of work and they will chew and eat anything!

[InkedMarie]

Is there a reason you have to buy food at Walmart? Feed Pure Balance if you’d like but it’s a good thing to feed more than one brand, especially that brand in particular since it’s only available at Walmart. Nothing else they sell is worth buying.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Sheltie Pom –

Pure Balance made by ‘Ol Roy and carried by Walmart – it looks like a great food for a great value. Some other decent quality canned foods available at Walmart are Variety, Newman’s Own, Natural Life, Ol’ Roy Healthy Mix (tubs), Rachel Ray (tubs) and Iams Woof Delights (tubs). I believe all of these products are rated 3.5 stars and up. Another product available at Walmart that you may want to check out is Fresh Pet. It’s a refrigerated product that is available in tubs (similar to canned products), nuggets in a pouch and chubs. The price is comparable to most canned foods.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Sheltie Pom:
I recommend you check out DFA’s canned food list for 3.5 – 5 star canned foods to start with and for the DFA ratings of the brands I have listed below to help with your decision. If you are looking to purchase food from Wal-Mart I suggest you look at Pure Balance stews & 95% canned selections, Rachael Ray Nutrish tubs, Freshpet, Newman’s, Variety, Natural Life, and Evolve. Not all Wal-Marts carry all of these brands.

If you are looking for budget friendly canned foods also look into Kirkland Cuts and Gravy from Costco (you have to buy a case, they are about 75 cents/can) or 4Health from Tractor Supply $1.00/can.

Since you are feeding a puppy, look for puppy or all life stages to be listed on any brand you decide to feed; not adult only food. I am not sure which brands meet the puppy/all life stages criteria out of the brands I have listed.

I also recommend you look into rotational feeding for your pup. Here’s a link to a DFA article about rotational feeding:
/frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/

I feed Pure Balance along with some of the brands I listed above to my dog; he loves the taste, and does well on both Pure Balance varieties and all flavors.

[Mom2Cavs]

Pure Balance is very reasonably priced. It also has a puppy formula in the canned version.

[Shasta220]

I will have to agree – the only Walmart brand I’d ever trust is Pure Balance. Although I believe Ol’ Roy tubs are rated 3.5 stars on here. If you can’t find PB, possibly try finding a nearby feed store or even try online shopping? I really would avoid anything by Purina…

[aquariangt]

while there are a lot of options NOT at walmart, the only one I would even consider is pure balance

[Sheltie_Pom]

I am hoping they carry Pure Balance canned food because it is rated at 5 stars on here.

[Akari_32]

So I just bought a bag of grain free Pure Balance. There was about a cup and half of his Natures Variety Instict left, so I put about the same amount of the Pure Balance in there and mixed it all together, and gave him a scoop of the mixture. He ate it happily, so maybe his dislike for fish has taken a back burner… I guess once he’s fully on the food in a few days, we’ll know for sure lol

I went with this food because, besides the fact it’s almost twice as much for the same price as the Instinct, I thought the fish base would benefit his skin problems. I was going to go for the salmon Instinct, but the house really needed some big things, and mom was reluctant to give up $15 for a 4 pound bag of food. I don’t blame her. I told her we’d try him on the Pure Balance, because I thought the fish would do him some good, and she agreed. Fingers crossed this does the trick!

[pugmomsandy]

Hi-Tek Grain Free is made by Hi-Tek and has not had a recall. Also Nature’s Select is made by Mid-America Pet Food. And Ainsworth makes Pure Balance and Back to Basics. Tuscan Natural is made by Pyramid Pet.

Merrick makes their own food and they bought Castor & Pollux.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Akari_32]

Thats an interesting idea!

So I’ve been experimenting with “training” him to not eat like a lunatic, and we’re actually doing pretty good! I’ve been going between just giving him is food, adding various amounts of water to his food, and just giving him a little bit at a time. As long as he has a different way to eat every night, it takes him several minutes to eat. However, I think I’ll be trying something with a larger kibble size next. When he has something larger to crunch on, he tend to take a few pieces out at a time, set them on the floor, and then eat them one at a time. Any suggestions on a grain free food with no chicken with larger pieces? (I was thinking, even though he hates it, the fish Wellness CORE, as well as the Wild Game. I was also wanting to try, so the sake of budgeting, the grain free Pure Balance, but I hear the pieces are tiny.)

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
Yes, pure balance is made by Ol’ Roy. But I think it is much better quality. I use the canned food regularly. It’s a great value. There is an active thread on this food on the review side of this site. You may find it helpful.

[acramos1]

Hello, I’m looking into a dog food by the name of Pure Balance being sold at Walmart. Most of the ingredients seem of high quality, the only thing that worries me though is the “menadione” in it because I’ve heard some bad comments about it. What are your thoughts on not only the line of food, but that particular ingredient as well?

[Sheltie_Pom]

Thanks everyone. I checked into Victor, but they charge to much to ship to my area, so it makes the price at more like $1.75 – $2.00 a pound. I am ready to start pulling my hair. Iams is cost more than it’s worth, Purina Pro Plan is a joke and Pure Balance isn’t as good as it sounds from some of the reviews I have read.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sheltie_Pom.

[Sheltie_Pom]

Okay,
so I think I may have narrowed it down tom these brands, Pure Balance, Iams (Because they have a kind specialized for toy breeds) and Purina Pro Plan (Because that’s what he’s on now). The reason I pick these is because Walmart carries Iams and Pure Balance and the puppy is on Purina Pro Plan. I live over an hour from the nearest pet store and don’t go to the city very often so I can’t just get in the car and run and get a bag of food for it once I run out.

[Sheltie_Pom]

I can’t spend over $1.05 per pound. I am looking for a good quality dog food to put my new Pomeranian on once he comes home. So far the one that I like best is Pure Balance, I was considering Iams but I’m not so sure after reading the ratings on it. Right now the puppy is on Purina Pro Plan but I don’t like that it contains menadione sodium bisulfite complex. SO what si your advice suggestions? Science Diet and Blue Buffalo are WAY out of my price range. I can’t afford $52+ dollars a bag.