Hi abby13 –
Dr. Becker recommends the following dosages for fish oils:
-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.
If you’re giving fish oil in liquid form – 1 tsp. equals approximately 4,500 mg. Most capsules come in 500 mg. and 1,000 mg. So for your dog you could give a 500 mg. capsule every other day or 1/4 tsp. oil or a 1,000 mg. capsule 2 or 3 times per week.
A doberman would be considered a large breed, however I know that dobermans are one of the few large breeds not particularly prone to hip dysplasia so calcium levels may not be as much of an issue. You could always talk to your breeder about it. It’s generally recommended to feed large breed puppies foods lower in calcium until they’re at least 6 months old as high levels of calcium have been linked to the development of dysplasia.
Thanks! I didn’t know that you’re supposed to rotate foods! She is a Doberman, I know the breeder was feeding her large breed puppy food but she’s not really considered a large breed, right? So confusing…
Hi KGM801 –
I’ve hear A LOT of people complaining about Blue Buffalo giving their dogs diarrhea. If you read through the Blue Buffalo thread on the review section there are tons of complaints, many have complained to Consumer Affairs as well and you can read those complains on the Consumer Affairs website. Last summer my friend got a new puppy and switched her from the food the breeder had her on (Science Diet) to Blue Buffalo and the dog got horrible diarrhea, she then tried another comparable food and the diarrhea cleared up overnight. So you’re not alone! I think the company has some serious quality control issues, I know I lost my trust in the company after I got a bag of cat food covered with mold and dog biscuits with bugs in the bag…
First off – have you had the pup checked for worms, coccidia and giarrdia? If you haven’t do that.
Second – “this is a big decision because whichever I decide on will most likely be what I feed her for her whole life!” PLEASE do not feed the same food for your dog’s entire life! Feeding the same food for extended periods of time is so unhealthy. Pick at least two or three brands and rotate, dogs need variety. No single food can provide a living thing with all the nutrients they need.
Any 4/5 star food would be worth a try. I know Blue Buffalo runs about $50-$55 for the largest bag. Some 4/5 star foods in that price range that I’d suggest checking out are: Earthborn, Merrick Grain-Free, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Horizon Legacy, NutriSource Grain-Free and Horizon Pulsar.
If your pup is a large breed, however, there are other nutritional considerations and I would recommend picking a food off this list:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFQXNYZW01VzRVV00/edit?usp=sharing
Adding some plain canned pumpkin and a probiotic supplement will help with the diarrhea. Good luck! 🙂
Thanks! I tried feeding him BB large breed puppy gave him very loose stools. Just started trying Nutro ultra large breed puppy. Thanks for the list!
Hi lovemylab –
I think high protein grain-free foods are best for all dogs. There’s a whole topic area here dedicated to large and giant breed puppy nutrition:
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
You don’t need to feed a “large breed” specific puppy food. You need to look for a food with appropriate calcium levels that is approved for “growth” or “all life stages.” Here is a list of 4 and 5 star grain-free foods appropriate for large breed puppies:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFQXNYZW01VzRVV00/edit?usp=sharing
I have a 4 month old lab who when I brought home the breeder recommended pro plan for large puppy. Knowing that pro plan isn’t good quality I’m looking for dry kibble. Is it better to feed my large breed pup a grain free kibble? Its hard to find grain free kibble for large breed puppy.
Thanks
Hi Cavalierluvr –
There are a few things that can cause anal gland issues. First of all small breed dogs and toy breed dogs are more susceptible to anal gland trouble in the first place – it’s very uncommon for large breed dogs to experience anal gland troubles, although it’s definitely possible. If you have a vet or groomer that frequently expresses your dog’s anal glands when there is no problem, it can lead to problems. The dog becomes dependent on the vet or groomer expressing their anal glands and loses muscle tone and the glands become unable to express themselves on their own. Another reason your dog may develop anal gland issues is if your dog has had diarrhea or loose stools for an extended period of time. Whenever you switch foods you should monitor your dog’s stools. Some mild loose stools during the initial switch are normal, but it shouldn’t persist for more than a few days. It’s common for dogs that have eaten the same food for a long period of time to get loose stools when switching to a new food – especially if the change is drastic, such as switching from a grain-inclusive food to a grain-free food. When you’re transitioning to a new food it’s a good idea to add a spoonful of pumpkin (plain) or a sprinkling of psyllium to each meal – both are high in fiber and will help to control loose stools by soaking up excess water in the colon. I would also recommend using a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and a digestive enzyme supplement during the transition – the probiotics will help to normalize the balance of bacteria in the gut and the enzymes will aid in digestion. It will take at least two weeks to know whether or not a new food is working for your dog but in some cases a food just doesn’t work and it may be necessary to try another food. Just because one grain-free food doesn’t work out, however, doesn’t mean that no grain-free foods will.
Maltipoo Mom-
For my small ones(smallest is just under 6lbs) I just make sure that anything that is a larger kibble is flat-not big round balls. The flat foods they can eat just fine
Hi Swissy Mix –
I know I checked into the grain free Victor when I was making the list – because they’re not on the list it means either the calcium levels were too high for a large breed puppy or customer service never responded to me. The calcium levels in BB Wilderness and TOTW were too high as well. Not sure about the calcium levels in the grain inclusive Victor – if it’s 3.5 g . per 1,000 kcal. or less it should be fine.
I have a 9-wk old Bernese/Greater Swiss mix. I initially gave our pup TOTW puppy version. He did fine for a few days and his stool looked good, but he started throwing up. After a few days on a chicken & rice diet recommended by the vet, I thougth our pup might be intolerant of TOTW. I decided to try BB Wilderness puppy version. Although his stool was a smelled more, he was fine for a few days. Then he started to throw up again. The vet has put the pup on Hill’s Prescription Diet i/d for a few days to see if it’s the puppy food or something else that’s causing the vomiting. I talked to our puppy’s breeder, and he was feeding his pups Victor dog food without any problems. If my pup doesn’t vomit any more, I’m thinking of feeding him Victor since that’s what the breeder was using. However, I don’t see it on the recommended food list. What do you think of this brand for a large/extra large breed dog? My pup is already 20 lbs.
That’s a big false. In general, breeders aren’t the best source of nutritional advice. Many are under the false assumption that high protein foods cause growth issues in large and giant breed puppies. However, studies show there is absolutely no link between high protein foods and developmental orthopedic issues. What has been linked to development orthopedic issues is high levels of calcium, overfeeding, overexercising and – the number one cause – poor breeding (I hope your pup’s parents had their OFA clearances!). I raise my bloodhound pups (another giant breed) on high protein foods with controlled calcium levels. My current pup (now 7 months old) has been on a high protein raw diet (45-55% protein) since a brought her home at 8 weeks and she is having nice slow and controlled growth. There is a topic area here dedicated to large and giant breed puppy nutrition and here you’ll find links to several articles on the matter written by veterinarians and nutritionists and a list of recommended foods.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
Hi DieselJunki –
Nature’s Logic is a great product and I have a lot of trust in the company. My cats eat Nature’s Logic kibble and when my oldest dog used to eat kibble I used the Nature’s Logic canned food as a topper quite frequently. I’m also a big fan of their whole food supplement and occasionally use it in my rotation (although I’ve mostly gone to formulating my own supplements lately..).
Unfortunately, all of the Nature’s Logic foods are MUCH too high in calcium for a large breed puppy (I’d wait until your pup is at least 6 months old and through his rapid growth phase before trying this food). Generally, in order to get the actual calcium level you have to call or email the company because most companies only list the minimum calcium percentage on their packaging and website and often the actual calcium percentage is much higher than the stated minimum. Nature’s Logic, however, is one of the few companies that discloses actual nutrient levels on their website – the reason I know they’re actual is because at the top of the analysis for each food it say “Actual Analysis Units Dry Matter Basis” and there’s no “min” before the calcium percentage. All of their dry foods are 2.123% calcium and well over 5.5 g. ca. per 1,000 kcal.
When I compiled my calcium list I called or emailed every company with a grain-free food rated 4 or 5 stars on DFA. Some companies never responded to my emails, didn’t pick up the phone or wouldn’t disclose the actual calcium level so it’s possible that some 4 or 5 star grain-free foods are appropriate and not on the list, however I think I’ve covered the majority. If you do call a company to get the calcium levels be sure to ask for the actual level and make it clear this is what you’re looking for (otherwise they may give you the minimum). If they don’t have an actual level from a lab analysis ask for the maximum and calculate values based off this.
I’m not sure of the calcium content of Nutrisource, but Hound Dog Mom created a list of good foods for large breed puppies and Nutrisource is not listed. If you want the list then let myself or HDM know, and we’d be glad to send it to you.
I had this very same issue last week! Here is my thread on it that had some very good answers.
/forums/topic/crooked-leg-to-much-protein/
First off I found that I was feeding a food that was WAY to high in calcium for a large breed puppy (I have an American Bull Dog). A Great Dane, being a large breed puppy needs a food that has the appropriate calcium levels. I recommend reading Hound Dog Moms thread on Large and Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition ( /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ )
Here is a link on calcium level appropriate foods for large breed dogs https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc . Hound Dog Mom also put this list together. It is in the form of a google document and you have to download it. Don’t be alarmed I promise there are no viruses in it as I have downloaded and looked at it myself. It has helped ALOT.
I did end up taking my puppy (who was 9 weeks at the time) to the vet and they thought he had shifted his growth plate when they looked at his x-rays. This was on a Friday. They put a splint on him to keep him from damaging it further and sent me to an orthopedic surgeon which I went to on Monday. When the orthopedic surgeon took the splint off to look his leg was normal, there was no sign of knuckling over at all. They took another x-ray and said he was absolutely fine. They said that perhaps the way the x-ray was angled at my vets office it made it look like it had shifted. But I gotta say in the short time he wore that splint I believe it fixed his knuckling over.
All in all I would suggest a trip to your vets office just to rule out anything being broken or out of place. After all, it’s better to catch these things now when they are fixable than to wait and have your puppies leg permanently damaged.
Hope I helped and I hope your puppies leg gets better! Keep us posted!
Most up to date list of recommended foods (finally got around to removing the grain-free Dr. Tim’s):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFQXNYZW01VzRVV00/edit?usp=sharing
I have been using a whole food supplement and my dogs have been doing amazing. There moods are calmer yet they seem to have more energy. The coat looks amazing and my oldest is getting up the stairs easier. http://www.friendsfurlife.rockyandbella.com I totally recommend it. I use Pedigree maintenance however surviving and thriving are 2 different things all together. My Aunts dog is diabetic and told me that she has been able to cut down on the amount of meds for him so that is a testimony in itself.
Hi sheeklouch –
Orijen is a wonderful food (it’s actually the best dry food out there – imo), however (unfortunately) none of their formulas are appropriate for large breed puppies – they are all much too high in calcium. For this reason, I’ve never fed Orijen to any of my pups but I have fed it to my adult with great success.
Gertie my now two year old female ate The Honest Kitchen (Zeal, Love, Thrive) and Tripett until she was 8 months old. Mabel, my newest addition, who just turned 7 months old has been on a controlled calcium homemade raw diet since she came to me at 8 weeks (my other two dogs eat raw now as well).
I think that most dogs do well on high protein foods (Gertie and Mabel both ate >40% protein on average) – if your dog is having loose stools with high protein foods I’d suggest trying a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin, a multi-strain probiotic and digestive enzymes at each meal.
Assuming you want to stick with a dry food, here is a list of recommended foods. Sometimes it’s trial and error and you may need to try a few foods before you find on that works for your dog. Some dogs are just more sensitive than others.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit
Dear Hound Dog Mom,
I have a 13 week old pure bread Bullmastiff and I was wondering what you would recommend feeding him. The breeder recommended that we feed him Orijen Large Puppy Breed and the reviews all seemed positive so we gave it a try. After a few weeks, he is having trouble digesting it and having very soft stools almost diarrhea like. The vet told us that sometimes the high amount of protein in Orijen is hard for young puppies to digest and we should try switching over to a different type of food with a protein level around 30%. What would you recommend we switch too? Thanks!
I have a new Black Lab puppy and I started feeding her NutriSource Large Breed Puppy Chicken and Rice . So what does everyone think of this food? It is reasonable priced I am not rich so I am trying to feed my puppy the food I can afford any help would be great
Ken
DieselJunki –
I’m sure there are several issues at play here all playing a part in this condition but NV Chicken (assuming you’re talking about the Instinct variety) is extremely high in calcium – the AAFCO max. calcium level allowed in food is 2.5% and this food is 2.49%, the level of calcium recommended for large breed puppy growth is generally 1.2% or below (so this food has over twice as much calcium as veterinary nutritionists recommend for large breed growth). The NV Instinct Rabbit formula and the Limited Ingredient Turkey formula are within the recommended calcium levels.
Hi DieselJunki –
It looks to me like your pup is knuckling over. You breeder gave you horrible advice, supplementing with calcium and reducing the protein will not help and could potentially make the issue worse. Calcium needs to be in balance with phosphorus – the ratio needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1 calcium to phosphorus. Commercial foods have a balanced ratio, so by supplementing with addition calcium you will likely throw the ratio off. You never ever want to supplement a balanced diet with calcium (unless advised by a veterinarian) and especially not for a growing puppy. Too much calcium in the diet actually contributes to developmental orthopedic diseases, such as knuckling over. Knuckling over, along with excess calcium, can be caused by overfeeding, having your pup walk around on inappropriate flooring (slippery floors) or by feeding low quality foods containing nutrients that have a low bio-availability. The good news is, if this is knuckling over (which I suspect it is) it can easily be reversed with no permanent damage. Get your dog on a balanced quality food with appropriate calcium levels and monitor intake (DO NOT overfeed). Also, get your pup to a vet asap! The vet should check to see if the dog has any parasites or underlying issues that could be causing nutrient deficiencies and the legs may need to be splinted for awhile. The following is some info on knuckling over:
http://vri.cz/docs/vetmed/51-2-71.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2905020/ .
You may also want to check out the articles posted on large breed puppy nutrition (if you haven’t already):
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/
SO I have had my puppy for about a week now and in that week we have noticed his leg is crooked. It’s awkward looking. It’s not painful to him but it’s like he can’t support his weight on it. He stumbles over it occasionally and favors it. You really noticed it when he stands up straight. When he’s drinking or eating at his bowl it shakes like crazy.
I emailed the breeder first off and she replied telling me that “Yes I’ve seen that in puppies, what kind of puppy food are you feeding? It’s too high in protein and he is outgrowing his joints/ligaments or vice versa. Get him some calcium treat tablets too just one a day or the directions on the container, and that will help too, try to get him started on them tomorrow. They grow so fast sometimes that happens. But do have your vet look at him when you go. With in a few days to a week you will be able to tell the difference, you may need to cut back on the high protein in puppy food or mix with a lower protein for awhile.”
I thought we were trying to keep the calcium to a low on these large breeds but she wants me to feed him calcium?
I guess I cannot link pictures here but I’m gunna try anyways.
Hi Melissa –
These are the foods I would recommend:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit
Any of the foods on my list would be appropriate for all life stages. All life stages is the same as a formula that is labeled for puppies or growth. The Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch and Meadow Feast are both grain-free appropriate for large breed puppies. I know I looked into Performatrin Ultra grain-free and either the calcium levels were too high or the company never responded to my inquiry about calcium levels (I can’t remember, I made the list quite awhile ago). I wouldn’t feed the grain-inclusive Earthborn because it’s too low in protein, I think the grain-free varieties are much better. All the foods on my list are grain-free, but whether you want to feed grain-inclusive or grain-free is really up to you. I personally think grains aren’t appropriate for dogs and feed all my dog grain-free. If you do go with a grain-inclusive food be sure to check the calcium level (under 3.5 g. calcium per 1,000 kcal.) and try to find a variety with at least 30% protein (anything below that is really too low, especially for a puppy – imo).
Hello Hound Dog Mom your info on large brreds is awesome thanks so much I was told to look at your links etc from Betsy. I have a 11 week old Great Pyranees and a 7 and 1/2 year old Samoyed (Neutered) Looking to see which food to feed each of them or just one all life stages.. Have you checked Performatrin Ultra Grain Free food? I did not see the calcium level on that and I did call the company…wasnt sure if you reccomend this food..Also Earthborn Holistic ?(it is not grain free) This is all new to me with all of the grain free foods..not sure to feed them grain or grain free..Puppy is on Puppy chow purina and am switching over now…can tstand that stuff! And my older dog was on Harmony Farms Holistic Lean weight formula for years but doesnt love his food..(he is not over weight) Any suggestions would be great
Thanks SO Much
Melissa
Other than getting a kibble for large breeds, the biggest kibble I’ve come across while finding food for my pugs is Core Reduced Fat and Core Original. It’s sort of triangular last time I used it and would consider it medium sized. I thought it was a little large for the smaller pugs. Although kibble is hard to digest so getting a larger kibble would make digestion more difficult. The smaller surface area and diameter of kibble the easier it is to breakdown. (Although size of kibble is not the only factor in good digestion). I’ve read here that some large breed owners dogs did better with smaller kibble versus large kibble. Specifically someone’s large dog did better digestion-wise on EVO Small Bites (which he accidentally bought) vs the regular size EVO. Same flavor of kibble, just purchased the wrong size. That being said you have the option of adding a probiotic/digestive enzyme to help with digestion if you go with a larger kibble. Most dogs don’t chew so a large kibble might be a choking hazard. If your dog likes to play with food how about putting the small kibble into a treat ball (like an IQ ball or Kong) where he has to work to get it out.
My dog was struggling with this for the past year. I spent several hundred dollars taking her to the vet to have the glands expressed weekly, and then antibiotics prescribed by the vet, two rounds, over two months, and still not better. The vet wanted to do surgery to remove the glands, but at $1400 and a 12 year old large breed dog, I was reluctant. I let it go for awhile and the poor dog was licking daily…so I was just about to go ahead with surgery but in a last ditch effort I switched her from Chicken and Rice to lamb and RIce (kirkland) and ordered online a Homeopathic remedy,
http://www.naturalcanine.com/AAGKH.html Silicea, and Hepar Sulph Calc. I thought for a mere $25 what did I have to loose? Well people, I SWEAR THIS WORKED and I am so happy for the first time in a year my dog is not licking anymore. Now in all fairness even the vet told me that eventually that sac would rupture and drain, not too pleasant for the dog….but I really watched my dog carefully go through all this over the past year, and I really do believe this homeopathic solution WORKED . For $25 it is worth a try. There are several pills, it is great value and will treat your dog more than once IF needed…..its a long process over several weeks and i had to write it all down on my calendar to keep track of the dosages but it comes with detailed instructions. PLEASE DO YOUR DOG A FAVOUR AND GIVE IT A TRY! If this works for you, you are only out $25…it is definately worth the attempt. I tried the pumpkin too for months but that didnt really work for my dog. Since I saw this miracle unfold I have been reading online about homeopathic remedies, and this is also used for humans (the Silicea) to help drain boils, and the Sulph is to fight the infection I believe. So I guess this is a common homeopathic remedy to drain infection from the body and also to keep those glands open to continue to drain. It is a miracle and I am not a person who often ventures outside of conventional medicine,but I have a new respect and interest in this homeopathic alternative now. The proof is that my dog is not licking anymore for the first time in a year. $25 beats the $700 I spent at the vet, plus the potential $1400 I was about to spend. Please give it a try and write back to let me know if it worked for you too! Its really a good feeling to see my dog not suffer anymore and to know I can easily afford this!
Check out the raw food thread. All three of my bloodhounds – ages 7 yrs, 2 yrs, and 6 mos. – are on a homemade raw diet. I have several of my recipes posted in the forum and there are also some links to some informative websites and some reading suggestions from myself and others.
Thanks for the share, HDM–I’m intrigued by the idea of feeding raw food. Hm…
Hi Mrs4444 –
Sorry to hear about your dog. Below is a link to an article by Dr. Becker that discusses pano. Dr. Becker says she’s had success supplementing with proteolytic enzymes, calcarea carbonica, arnica and Standard Process’ Musculoskeletal Support. Another poster on this site has a golden pup with pano and I believe she’s supplementing with turmeric and omega 3’s and having luck with that. Also, make sure you don’t let your pup play too hard – heavy activity can aggravate the condition.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/27/three-common-bone-growth-conditions-in-puppies-and-young-dogs.aspx
Thanks for starting this thread. Our six-month-old lab has developed panosteitis, and I want to make sure I’m feeding him the right food. I’ve started feeding him From 4-star. Hopefully, that will help.
Hi Gumbo and Roux Mama –
I consider any dog that will be 60 pounds or more at maturity to be a large breed. If your pup is 8 months old and only 40 lbs. she’ll likely be a medium-sized dog at maturity, but definitely on that medium/large borderline. Feeding a small or medium sized dog as a large breed won’t hurt, so if you’re unsure there’s no reason you can keep the dog lean, limit calcium and limit strenuous exercise, etc. As for her weight, just google body weight scores for dogs and you’ll be able to find pictures of what a good weight should look like. I personally keep my dogs on the lean side, probably leaner than most keep their dogs – I’d rather see my dogs borderlining underweight than borderlining overweight. I think with large dogs any excess weight is just excess stress on the joints. You should see a waistline when you view the dog from above, an abdominal tuck when viewed from the side, you should be able to feel the ribs but they shouldn’t be protruding. A good indication that the dog is underweight is if you can see the hip bones – if you can see these she’s too thin.
The information provided by Hound Dog Mom is extremely helpful, but I am having a hard time deciding if my 8 month old puppy would be considered a large breed. After doing reserch, there are many varing opinions on what designates a large breed dog. My girl is a rescue and we were told she was a Boxer/Lab mix but who knows! She is definitely Boxer, but not certain about the lab. At 8 months, she weighs 40 pounds but is really lean. I worry that she borders on being a bit too thin but do not want to overfeed her in an effort to prevent future problems. Being new to this site, I certainly welcome any and all advice!
Hi DieselJunki –
Congrats on the new family member! 🙂
Amierican Bulldogs would be considered a large breed, so you should feed them as such. Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit would be a wonderful choice for your new pup – the calcium levels are right where they should be. All three of my dogs now eat a raw diet, but my oldest used to eat kibble and I used Nature’s Variety Instinct in my rotation frequently – he loved the food and did well on it. All of Nature’s Variety Instinct foods are approved for “All Life Stages” meaning that they meet the nutrition requirements of any age dog – puppy right through to senior. Any 4 or 5 star canned food would make a great topper – as long as you’re only using a little canned to mix with the dry you shouldn’t need to worry about calcium levels too much. My only other suggestion would be to pick at least one or two other dry foods to rotate with – rotational feeding is much healthier than feeding the same food continuously and if you get your new pup accustomed to rotational feeding while he is young it will be easier to change foods later on. If you check out the “Diet and Health Issues” forum and go to the sticky “Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition” topic you’ll find a list with other 4 and 5 star grain-free foods that would be a good choice for your pup.
On Friday I will be getting an American Bull Dog puppy. He was born on 11.23.2012
Now I have been researching dog nutrition as I always believe in feeding my animals the best of the best no matter the cost. I travel quite a bit for work and although I would love to feed raw it is just not in the picture so a good kibble will have to suffice with some wet mixed in on occasion.
I believe I have found the food that I believe to be right. I had found a link here that talked about the calcium levels in the foods and based my decision of the review and the amount of calcium.
Natures Variety Instinct: Rabbit. It had a good review aside from having canola oil in it. Calcium per the list that I found on here is 1.12%, 3.34 g./1,000 kcal.
My question is is this ok for a puppy to eat? American Bull Dogs are pretty much a large breed right? I do want to be sure to watch my calcium levels here?
Saireah –
That’s really a tough question to answer as each dog is very different. The best thing you can do is monitor his his weight and adjust the food intake accordingly. So many factors can affect the calorie requirements of a dog including size, activity level, age, breed, gender, whether the dog is spayed or neutered, temperature, level of stress, etc. etc. A good place to start would be the feeding recommendation on the bag. Looking at Fromm’s feeding recommendation for their 4 Star line it’s based on an adult dog, so I would find his weight on the chart and double the suggested cups per day (because he’s a puppy and puppies at that age generally require about twice as many calories per pound as an adult dog). When he’s around 6 months old you could probably cut back to about 1 1/2 times the recommended amount for an adult dog. If he gets chubby cut him back, if he looks like he’s losing weight increase his feedings. Starting with the feeding chart on the bag is the and adjusting from there is the best suggestion I can give you. From personal experience though, you’ll probably have to adjust it. Just as an example, by 68 lb. spayed female eats the same amount as my 110 lb. unaltered male – doesn’t make any sense, right? According to Dr. Mike’s dog food calculator she should get 1,639 calories per day – she eats 2,500 calories per day.
Definitely makes sense. Thanks!
You seem quite knowledgeable with large breeds, so I have a question if you wouldn’t mind? We’ve decided to keep our foster puppy (yay!) — but I’m not sure how much to feed him given his breed background. Again, his mother was a 60lb black lab and his father was a 150lb purebred English mastiff. I’m going to be feeding him the Fromm Four Star line. Quinn, our 50-ishlb lab/vizsla mix, gets just under 2 cups a day as we’re trying to keep her at a leaner weight due to her hip dysplasia. Ideally, she would be 45-50lbs per our discussion with Iowa State. However, for Mr. Unnamed, how many cups per day would you suggest on the Fromm Four Star line? He is 3 months old.
Thanks again for your spreadsheet — it solidified my decision to feed Fromm’s!
Due to having a life besides my dogs, but having the desire to feed them a healthy raw diet, I was wondering what is a simply reciept to feed them daily the same food home made mix. I have two old Malamute/Retriever mixes and two young 3 months old puppies. All are currently on Orijen (large breed and adult) dry food, which they like and do well on. Also, how do you grind your meat, especially the bones and does anybody have a recommendation for a meat grinder.
Well I asked for the “average calcium level” of the grain-free Kinesis. The reason I email each company directly and ask for the average is because what’s stated on the website and product packaging is the guaranteed minimum, not what’s actually in the food. Generally the average calcium level is quite a bit higher than the stated minimum. Dr. Tim’s site states 0.97% min – so when I asked for the average I’m assuming he gave me the average for that formula. Then for the grain-free the min is 1.51%, so the average is likely somewhere around 1.8% or so. Hope that makes sense!
Hmm! Their calcium for the grain inclusive formula is min. 0.97%. Maybe their site is wrong and your list is still okay? I can send them an e-mail separately and see what they say to me if you’d like?
Hi Saireah –
Thanks for pointing that out about the Dr. Tim’s – I’ll have to remove it from the list. I got the percentage from Dr. Tim’s customer service, I emailed them and asked them for the average calcium percentage of the grain-free Kinesis. Looking at their site, I think there was some confusion and they accidentally gave me the calcium level for the grain-inclusive Kinesis. I had the email saved and checked it and I did say grain free Kinesis, so it must have been a mix up.
Hello! This is EXACTLY the thread that I was looking for. We have a 1.5 year old vizsla/lab mix who has hip dysplasia. While I feel as if I didn’t feed her the best food during her first year (Nature’s Recipe – Large Breed Puppy), I have been feeding her better food since. I’m definitely more educated. She’s currently transitioning to Fromm’s Four Star Grain-Free Game Bird recipe from Acana Ranchlands due to itchiness from Acana.
We are fostering a lab/mastiff mix whose parents were a 60lb lab (mom) and a 150lb purebred mastiff (dad). I have been trying to find the “best” food to feed him — and I am thrilled that I might be able to feed the same food to both of my dogs!
I do have a question, though. You state that Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (grain-free) has 1.3% calcium — where did you get this number? His site (http://drtims.com/grain-free/) states 1.51%, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.
I’m trying to choose between Fromm’s Four Star line (I love that you can swap flavors to give variety and I also love that you can feed less because they have a bit higher protein/fat content than the grain inclusive Four Star!) or transitioning both of my dogs to Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (GF).
I want to make sure that I am feeding my dogs one of the best foods! I know that either of these choices would be okay for Quinn, but I am really worried about hip dysplasia in a second dog. Any advice or feedback would be really appreciated. 🙂
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Just me, but these dogs have tons of stress on their joints because of their crooked legs. I would still want to pay close attention to calcium levels.
That’s sort of what I was thinking-Since the dogs full weight is going to be under 40 lbs “by design” it would no longer be considered a large breed, and the lower calcium etc would not come into play. I was thinking the Acana line would be fine, but wanted others opinions on whether or not they think the dog should be fed low cal/phos, or if it should not matter.
No input on diet except I don’t think I would consider it a large breed anymore since it’s mini, but mini bulldog sounds interesting!! One of my toy breed pugs is 30 lbs!! The 60 lb bulldog we fostered for 2 months didn’t get along here so we had to pass her along to another home 🙁
As best as I understand, there is no down side to feeding a puppy as a large breed. Controlled calcium is not bad for small or medium breeds. Slow steady growth is good for all puppies.
Hey everyone-
Have a question and looking for others input. English bulldogs are normally considered a large breed dog, and they are prone to hip issues-“Full size” is normally 45-65lbs or so-just short, cobby and heavy in a smaller package. Easy enough-feed as a large breed puppy.
Opinions needed on this-What about mini English Bulldogs? These kids go typically 14 inches tall, and 26-45 lbs tops. These are AKC registered English bulldogs, that are bred to be smaller(purebred to purebred, smallest to smallest until a constant size is produced) So, the genetics are the same, the “package” is just smaller. Someone I know hit Santa over the head with a frying pan, and he coughed up a Christmas puppy, albeit belated, lol.
Hi Jagger
I like Merricks 96% grain free canned,Fromm,wellness 95%,Tripett,BB Wilderness.They are all nice toppers.We use canned 3 times a week.We also use fresh meat as toppers.Ground chicken/turkey,gizzards,beef,sardines,venison,eggs,yogurt . Brothers Complete is the kibble we use with a bag of fromms grain free once in awhile…
Sorry Jagger2012, I just noticed this post. I’m not sure why you’re not seeing the document, it’s working for me. I’ll try posting a new link, let me know if this works: https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc
