[SnorkletsMom]

Hi! I have read most of this site and a lot of other sites, I have spoken to our vet…now I’m looking for opinions or tips for our puppies. They are 6 months old, one male, one female, probably 60 lbs +/- they are half Golden Retriever, half St. Bernard. Their breeder fed them Purina puppy chow, which I refused to continue. We have tried a few brands, some with terrible results. The best so far has been Purina Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. But as I’ve looked around, it does not seem to be a suggested good food. I’d like to find the best I can, but hopefully not the highest price, money is tight right now. Calcium, phosphorus, protein, etc. can be confusing after a while! Our vet is fine with the Purina, but I’d like your opinions. Also…should we be giving them any supplements? And exercise…a lot or not? (Vet said not) All tips are welcome, I’ve never had giant dogs before. Thanks!

[Lablubber]

Hi Crew

This is what I ordered to try the two either alternating or a mix of the two if he has no trouble with either of them… But I am introducing some cooked hamburger and ground turkey as well as spinach and going to buy some of the stuff you have to rehydrate to start with for the ease of carrying it with me.

One thing that I have had a hard time with was the a lot of the food has no no’s in it that you guys have told me about and I have read about as well such as Rosemary Extract or Oil- Seizures, Canola Oil-Cancer, Garlic – Anemia, and the first thing Rosemary which even rules out Wellness Core Puppy even though it was on the list and I was going to get it an Orijen both as alternates or as a mix. What is strange now is I am driving all of my friends nuts on what treats they buy their dogs and the food that they are feeding them as well.

One thing that is definitely noticable with Jess is that he has thinned down dramatically since coming off of Pupina LB Puppy Chow and he is very lean which I personally have a hard time getting use to because I have always had nice, big, rolly polly, lab puppies and I guess it was just fornate that I have never had one with a hip or shoulder or elbow issue, except with one of my old females, she was English Bred Lab and she was as big as a horse and in her old age she around 10 or 12 she did start having a slight limp in her rear end but that was it. So this this whole thing is a new ballgame for me….With keeping a LBP looking like a lean and mean greyhound instead of a huge big old lab like i always liked to see. Bigger has always been better to me, but what did I know.

I just have to get rid of a whole lot of old school ways and ways of thinking, that now have to be reprogrammed in me, but guess what? you guys were knowledgeable enough about this whole thing and the backed it up with factual evidence and because I love my dogs enough I had to take heed and listen and am glad I did… Because I would hate to see this pup or for that matter my either of my two Westies or Custard the Cat, developing cancer because of Monsanto’s genetically muted or altered grain, being in their food or them developing hip or shoulder or elbow issues because I was too stubborn to listen to you guys about Calcium issues with it’s uptake in LBP’s. So thank all of you for that as well for giving me a quick education in what is best for my dog and for making me dig deep on my own into what what all the leading specialists say about these things as well…

This is the kibble I ordered yesterday from Chewy to transition over to from Blue…

1 x Orijen Puppy Large Breed Grain-Free Dry Dog Food, 28.6-lb bag
1 x Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet Formula Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

Thanks Lablubber

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[BernerdAd]

Dear Lablubber:

If you do not mind the price — Canine Caviar Open Sky – (grain free) – Order it from Chewy.com. If you want to make sure it says the absolute fresh order two 12 lbs bags.
Shipping is free and no tax for most states. It is rated 4.5 and on the list for Large Breed Puppy.

/dog-food-reviews/canine-caviar-grain-free/

I have bernese mountain dogs — and some of the top breeders in the country use this brand – as I have polled them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels ~
The reason Wellness’s LBP formula is not on the list is because the list only includes grain-free formulas.

If you’re going to feed Wellness, their grain inclusive LBP food claims a min/max calcium of 1.1/1.5% with no less that 26% protein. Their Core, grain free recipe for puppies (non-specific of target size), claims no more than 1.5% calcium and no less than 36% protein. Since the max calcium is the same, it’s probably safe to assume the Core Puppy formula will be alright to feed a LBP.

At seven months old, you could move your poodle to the Core Large Breed Adult formula which has a max calcium of 2% and minimum 34% protein. And since the ingredients are essentially the same for the Core Puppy and Core LBA, either recipe would be fine at this point though, if my only choice was Wellness, I would keep a seven month old on the puppy formula at least a few more months.

If your puppy continues to have loose stools and there is no medical reason for it, you might try adding a tablespoon of plain pumpkin to his food – don’t use pie filling, until his stools normalize. Make sure he’s not outside eating wild mushrooms, bunny poop or turkey poop or any other critter poop if you live in a rural area.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,
I’m beginning to wonder if this winter will ever end! Though it sounds like you’re having a rougher time of it than we are in St. Louis. And it sounds like you must be in a fairly rural location. But I think pulling out some of your less expensive cuts to get by is a good idea since you’ve already made a start towards raw. That’s just my two cents from a novice raw-feeder! The stories about your Maine Coon are priceless. I can almost see him as I read. Except for the obvious physical differences his personality reminds me of our tuxedo cat, Gizmo.

As far as managing the bones etc. based on what I’ve read I wouldn’t worry about one feeding or even several but trying to balance it over a week? Maybe longer since Mystery isn’t a puppy? I try to be more careful of the Calcium/Phosphorus ratios with two large breed, fast growing puppies because in a week they can grow significantly and in a month, one of them could easily gain another 10 pounds!

Good luck with the snow and food. Try to stay warm and dry. And keep me posted!

[RescueDaneMom]

I agree with what Ana said. I have a Great Dane as well so I understand the challenge that feeding a giant breed can be sometimes. I would avoid the hot dogs too. I only use hot dogs (good quality, all meat, all natural) for very special rewards. It’s not something you want to feed all the time.

My Dane was always slightly overweight on kibble no matter what brand I fed or how much I reduced his portion. The best thing I ever did for his health was switch him to The Honest Kitchen and raw. THK is a dehydrated food. You add water and let it rehydrate before serving it. It would be great for traveling in your motorhome with. You can incorporate some raw food instead of hot dogs if the concept of raw doesn’t bother you. There are a number of high quality raw frozen foods out there. I like Primal and Stella & Chewy’s the best. I started making my own homemade raw food because it was cheaper for me.

If you want to feed kibble, definitely check out the 4 and 5 star rated kibbles on this site. Everybody has their preferences. A few I like and have fed my Dane are: Earthborn Holistic, Annamaet Grain Free, Go! Fit & Free, Acana Regionals (Grain Free), and Orijen. Others I like are Horizon Legacy, Dr. Tim’s, and Victor. I would feed the 7 month old a food from Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that are appropriate for a large breed puppy: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit All of these foods are 4 or 5 stars and have the appropriate amount of calcium for a growing large breed puppy.

Good luck and have fun with your newly adopted pups!

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi angele normand,

A homemade cooked diet is doable but you’re going to have to be really careful with the calcium/phosphorous. I’ve never cooked for a large breed puppy just adults so I don’t know how to go about making sure the calcium and phosphorous is at the right level. Hopefully Patty or someone else that is knowledgeable will chime in. Here is a website to get you started though: http://dogaware.com/diet/homemade.html This website has a wealth of info. I would go through it thoroughly. Also, the book “Real Food for Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker would be worth purchasing in my opinion. It explains everything about what canine diets need and how to make them. There are recipes for raw and cooked meals.

Good luck and good for you for wanting to do the best for your new furbaby!

[ExplEngineer]

I have adopted two English Mastiffs, one is ~3yrs old and the other is 7mos old. Yes, I know that they have some different nutritional requirements, but I also know that #1: They are inseparable, father-son, & totally dedicated to each other; #2: Yes, I know that I can separate them at feeding time, or at any other time, I can train them to do what I tell them to do, etc. but I can also raise happy, well adjusted dogs that do what they are told when obedience is a real requirement, I took in both of them because I can tell from their interactions that while they could be raised separately, they will be happier being together, and I am at that age that while they will have to accept responsibilities as a Certificated Service Dog(s), I can be genuinely happy when they are genuinely happy and unless or until a problem arises (which I shall always be diligent in looking for indicators, I am not oblivious to these matters), I can afford to raise two Mastiffs and my goal is to make their lives as happy, and as stress-free as I can make it consistent with the rules of my house. The eat at the same time, generally out of their own bowls, but they have been known to trade out the bowls that they are eating out of, and they eat far better when they are fed together. I have been using Purina Large Breed Dry Dog Food (which is what I have fed both Blackhawk, whom I just lost, and Othello before him and who my Vet has commented as to how healthy looking they were, and they could maintain proper weight on that diet), 20oz-22oz supplemented with about 0.5lbs of meat b.i.d. Until the youngest is about a year old, I will mix in Puppy Chow to ensure that he is also getting the correct balance of nutrients for a growing puppy, while allowing the adolescent (these large dogs are generally not fully and finally developed until they reach 3.5 to 4.0 yrs old) to partake of the same mixture. My principle guidelines in feeding are to watch the weight and weight gain and growth of the each of my lads, and as long as they appear to be doing well, have great looking coats and show no signs of nutritional deficiencies, in consultation with my Vet I continue to use the same foods in their diet. The meat component will vary from Hot Dogs, which allow good portion control and consistency, are nutritious and if properly selected provide a proper cross-section of meat(s), while being required to meet USDA standards for human food, provide some variety, and are easily kept while we are on the road in the motor home, and not requiring any continual readjustments to new diets at home and away. When we put up a steer in the freezer, I not only set aside beef from it for the lads, but have it packaged in serving size containers for portion control, plus I set aside a portion of it to be prepared into “jerky treats” (I am no longer comfortable with the commercially available jerky treats, + every now and then I can snitch one of theirs when it is time for a treat). Having said all of that, I am never too old, or too stubborn to learn, or to find a new means of feeding the boys if it is to their advantage. Fortunately, while in this economy no one can say that cost is never a factor, but it is not a controlling factor, and if there is a valid reason to convert to other foods or additions to their diets, I am more than willing to change them over, notwithstanding a price or cost increase. Please jump in and share your views, I’m new here and truly interested in having the happiest and healthiest well-behaved and well-trained Mastiffs around.

[Lance & Nikki]

Hi! I was researching some info on food for our dogs and I came upon this site and more importantly, this great thread. I read some of the thread but didn’t see what I was looking for exactly, so my apologies if this has already been addressed, but I really want to make sure that we are doing the right thing when it comes to feeding our wonderful dogs.

We have a Great Dane that is now almost 13 months old and we have a St Bernard puppy that will be 14 weeks old this Friday. Right now we are feeding them both Artemis Fresh Mix for medium and large breed puppies. We went with this food because it got good reviews and from what we could find, it’s a high quality food. But now that Pepper (our Dane) is over a year old, we were thinking of transitioning her to an adult food and preferably a grain free one because she does have a rather sensitive stomach. In researching this, we saw that calcium content is an issue in giant breed dogs, especially breeds like the Great Dane, and it seems that many grain free foods are higher in calcium.

What we want to switch Pepper over too is the Merrick grain free line of foods because from everything we have ever read, Merrick is a fantastic company that makes extremely high quality food. And since we have to get the Artemis food shipped in because nobody locally carries it, and we already use the Merrick canned food a couple of times a week to supplement the dry food and both our dogs love it, we would really like to use the Merrick food once our dogs are old enough to switch to adult food. I did e-mail Merrick to find out what their calcium content is by dry matter and they sent me the following:

Grain Free Chicken- 2.50%
Grain Free Buffalo- 2.50%
Grain Free Duck- 2.50%
Grain Free Pork- 2.32%

Now these are all over the recommended limit of 1.3% to 1.5% that I have read about for giant breed dogs, but most of those limits were for their growth stage. My question (and concern) is, is Pepper old enough now where the calcium content of the food isn’t as critical as it would be if she were still a fast growing puppy (she’s right about 100 pounds now and hasn’t put on much weight at all in the last few months, she’s seems pretty steady at her current weight and size)? She currently is eating twice a day (morning and evening) about 2 cups at each feeding.

Sorry for the long winded first post and thank you in advance for any advice/information you can throw our way, it is greatly appreciated!

Lance & Nikki

[Mom2Cavs]

You feed your new Shepherd puppy cat food? Now I will say that some dog and cat foods contain the exact same ingredients in some companies. For example, Fromm Gold canned foods are so similar between cat and dog formulas that I actually feed my cat the dog cans. Also, Mulligan Stew is made for cats and dogs. Another one I found I could feed just the dog formula to both is Instinct Healthy Weight. Theirs applies to both canned and their Healthy Weight Raw Boost kibble! HOWEVER, a Shepherd is considered a large breed, if I’m not mistaken, and large breed puppies have specific nutritional requirements. It would seem to me that cat food does not meet those requirements. They need special calcium to phosphorus ratios to grow properly. I’m certainly not an expert, as I have small dogs and one cat, but I have learned this. I’m sure others will post that are experts on the subject of large breed puppies. Btw, there is a list on this site/forum of foods that would work for large breed puppies and have the correct nutritional content. Good luck to you!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Freed1 ~
You can see the entire 5-star list of foods here: /dog-food-reviews/dry/5-star/.

My opinion is that Orijen is the best dry food, whether you are feeding puppy, large breed puppy or adult. It is however, more expensive that the average brand you find at Petsmart.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[sean76034]

I know these posts are like a year old, and I also know it has to do with large breeds like Great Danes, but I need some advice. I have a 2 month old doberman puppy mix and she has been knuckling over. It started when she was smaller, we noticed her front leg would shake while she was sitting, we thought she was just getting used to her weight so we ignored it. 2 weeks later which is around now, she looked a lot worse while she was running outside. She started to run with three legs. This is when I realized something was actually wrong. I looked it up and realized she goes back and forth from normal to stage 1 and 2. The more active she is, the more it looks like stage 2, the less active it looks like stage 1, and when she is asleep most of the time then starts walking it looks normal. This led me to believe it is just knuckling over and nothing worse that would need immediate surgery. I have concluded many reasons to why this happened to her. For one, all we have is tile/hardwood floor throughout the house, for two, we switched foods many times, and lastly, the food she was on had like 27% protein. After reading many posts I’ve concluded she needed lower protein so I went and got her 21% protein with no by-products or corn. It seems to have been helping because her paws look normal right now, but she hasn’t been as active since we don’t let her play anymore with her litter mates. We had a litter of 8 puppies, which the other 7 are all normal and they’re still on the 27% protein. All seemed great until I read that when they have knuckling joints their supposed to be on low fat too. I read the label and the food she’s on is 21% protein and 16% fat. I’ve concluded this is too much fat so now I am wondering if we should once again switch foods on her. What do you guys recommend I should do? Buy a high quality adult food that is 21/12? Or keep her on what she’s on? I feel if we did that she would get too heavy for her paw. But I feel if we switched foods again which will be like the 3rd or 4th time it will make problems worse. What should I do? if I had to make a diagnosis id say she’s looking pretty normal at this point. But I think that’s just due to more sleep and walking and less running and playing. Also I read that vitamin C is good, but she won’t eat her food with the crushed up pill in it. If anyone still comes on here please help us out because we don’t want her to get worse

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Thank you once again for your reply on the vaccinations and yes i know this is a nutrition forum for large breed dogs and I have most of the tinme been talking about it buit it just came to mind while I was typing so I asked anyway, since all of your longtimers seem so well versed and have educated yourself in the finer points of truly raising your dog right… So thank you for your reply…. It is very much appreciated…

Then Patty, thank you also for your reply…. I know that written word is the poorest form of communication there is and you grossly misunderstood my intentions in my words because if you have read my other posts, I happen to think all of you are very informative and also very wise in your area of expertise. I actually switched off of the dog food my breeder had my pup on because of a post I think Hound Dog Mom made and I don’t know where in the world off of here that I got the idea to use Blue but it has made a world of difference in his coat, his stool conformity and he has yet to have the first issue with the Chicken and Rice Lg. Breed Puppy Food.

As far as the raw diet goes, I have no issue with anyone using it and believe me had I not seen first hand several issues myself with it, then I assure you for my pup, I would doing whatever it takes to have him on it and besides even the people I knew that had the issue may have not used the raw diet in the prop[er way or had the strict regime of ingredients like you guys do.

Believe me if I didn’t agree with anything you sauid or thought that you didn’t know what you were talking about….i sure would not have changed my whole way of thinking and I would still be using milk replacer in my puppy chow and facing hip or elbow issues down the road.

I came here to be educated by people like you and hound dog mom and all of the year of wisdom that is formed and madeup by in this forum. And then boom you hit me with another shot in your last reply and told me Blue had too much calcium as well and I just finished a 20 day transition over to it for my dog.

I swear someone on here told me it was one of the top 25 foods to feed a large breed puppy. So excuse me if I upset you by using the poorest form of communication there is because there was nothing intended wrongly for any of you. Because I am disciple of all of you and intend to remain so if you guys don’t shun me out for poor wording.

So with that said… Can I just plainly, country boy ask you what you would feed a labrador retriever pup that means the world to you if you don’t feel comfortable with going the raw way just yet?

One other thing I would also like to ask about supplimentation is with all of the stomach cancer issue that so many older dogs are facing… Has any of you ever added Tumeric or Curcumin to your dogs diet because I can tell you for a fact and even MD Anderson Hospital finally admitted that they have found that it actually kills cancer cells and then acts as an outright cancer fighting addition to your diet… My boss had Multiple Myeloma (Bone Cancer) and he was in stage 4 when they found it and then through nutritional changes and lots of prayer, he is a documented walking miracle. Needless to say his whole staff now takes tumeric/curcumin everyday… And my pup get a 1/2 capsule everyday as well, until I find out it is bad thing for him which I don’t think I will from what I have read. In fact I am going to write Texas A&M Vet. School to make sure that it will not and if not what dosage I could give him to be a correct amount for his system. I personally think it will make him cancer immune in his old age. I have had skin cancers on my arm dissolve and dissappear after just a few month of taking 3 capsules a day of it every day.

So I am sorry if I ruffled anyone up because I truly did not mean to do so because I respect and enjoy reading every single thing you guys write. I read it every day and every night religiously. I just thought it was kindly strange that everyone was replying to all the posts done after mine and not a thing toward mine at all… You know what assuming does but anything I aksed is asked geniunnely because I don’t know and really want someone more educated and wise to step up and help me out… This puppy means the world to me and so I only want the best for him even if I have to swallow a lot of stuff that I didn’t know I was doing wrong on.

So thanks for your reply and I look forward tolearning much more from all of you on this forum.

The Lablubber

So thank you for all of your help and wisdom and please continue what you are doing for all of us newbies to the real world of pet nutrition.

[theBCnut]

Balanced is between 1:1 and 2:1 according to old AAFCO guidelines, BUT and this is a big BUT, large breed dogs need lower calcium than that, in fact it is looking like AAFCO may finally update this year to recommend lower calcium in all puppy foods because of this. You still want to have closer to 1:1 if you are feeding a large breed pup. Sorry I can’t remember what you said your dog is.

[aimee]

I’ve come to look at this issue differently. I’m open to the idea that the criteria PhD nutritionists and veterinary nutritionists use to evaluate foods leads them to conclusions that may differ from our own. Veterinarians may be following the lead of these specialists. For example Susan Wynn DVM, an integrative/holistic practitioner, board certified in nutrition, recommends Hill’s Science Diet http://susanwynn.com/Literature.php click on large breed puppy nutrition.

When zoo nutritionists choose to feed commercial foods Hill’s is often on the menu. Some on this site have suggested that zoos use Hills only because they get the food for free. However, the Hills rep I spoke to said as far as she knew Hills has never had a zoo feeding program. Additionally, she confirmed that many zoos have accounts with them. The local zoo said they purchase Hills from the manufacturer.

When surveying vets, all 5 reported that their nutrition classes were taught by PhD’s and DVM’s without any food industry ties. Three said the only contact from Hills was a free copy of Small Animal Clinical Nutrition which was left on a table to take if they wanted ( the book was not used in any formal way in their classes). The 4th said in addition to the book she could purchase food at a reduced rate. The 5th said that Hills reps were at the school for free lunch/ presentations. She said faculty attended too and afterwards they led discussions on how to critically evaluate the material presented.

After evaluating the education of these vets, talking to zoos (I spoke to 2) and finding recommendations for Hills SD from people highly educated in nutrition I’m finding I need to be open to the idea that those highly educated in nutrition use different criteria to evaluate diets.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Akari_32]

So I went into Pet Supermarket and talked to the manager about their Diamond foods. The only carry chicken, beef, and lamb adult formulas, as well as the lamb large breed. I asked if he could get any of the puppy foods, or the grain free and he said he’s only allowed to order what the chain as a whole carries. I asked him if he had anything similar and he pointed me to the Canidae ALS.

Since he didn’t have either of the two I was looking for, I didn’t ask him if he knew which plant they got the food from. I decided to wait and look into them and see if I liked any before going any further. Anyone have a reccomendation out of these? (None of the above is also an option lol).

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[goldenmom]

Which is the most updated list for recommended food for large breed puppies. From what I see there are 2 different ones I have seen. I will be getting a golden retriever puppy at the end of February and would like to have the most recent list to use.
Thank you

[Rambunctious]

I’m confused. No surprise!

I thought it was optimal to feed some of a can on top of kibble to aid in digestion or something. (For those who are feeding commercial) As much as I like THK- it’s not an option for us to feed that right now. We’re getting a labradoodle that we expect to hit about 55lbs in a bit over a month. I understand that it’s optimal to also rotate food. So, we were thinking of rotating dr.Tim’s kinesis (order online) and fromm’s gold puppy which we can get locally. I thought we should add a bit of wet food to each meal to moisten and provide a bit extra protein. I’m a little lost on where to find a decently priced wet. And if my plan sounds decent? 55lbs is on edge of large breed and I don’t want to mess her up if I should be looking else where.
I appreciate all the feedback!

[gsdmommy89]

When you say toppers, do you mean wet food? I’ve thought about wet again and again, but I just really don’t want to get him used to wet and then when I want to give him something by itself he’ll turn his nose up to it completely if it isn’t mixed. The only food I can honestly say I never had a problem with at all is the Fromm Large Breed Puppy. I stopped giving it to him because I felt it was too rich for his tummy and his stools were always loose. Not runny, just loose. I guess I’ll buy a few small bags of what I have available here at my local retailer and do trial and error. He didn’t seem to mind the Meadow Feast very much, so I guess I’ll try that first. If anyone has anymore advice or opinions, please let me know! Thank you

[dogmom]

Just a note on the Acana – I did move my 8-month old GSD from Origin Large Breed Puppy to Acana when he was 6 months old, because he was growing too fast, and the vet suggested that he be put on adult food to slow him down some. That’s worked great for us – again, sloooow switch between the foods – took a couple of weeks.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi everyone. I’m not new to this forum, but I do need some advice. I have a 7 month old GSD and I’ve only fed him from HDM’s list. I first started him on Fromm Large Breed Puppy from the age of 2 months til about 4.5 months. He ate all of it from his bowl but had very loose stools even with pumpkin mixed in and bad gas. I then switched him to Nature’s Variety LID Turkey thinking maybe since it was a bland ingredient list his stomach and stools would settle but he didn’t even touch it. Too bland I guess. I went back and exchanged it for the Nature’s Variety Large Breed Puppy which he ate willingly but when I went to pour the bag into my Vittles Vault I noticed it was expired so I went and took it back to get a new bag but was told that food doesn’t really move so the only bag on the shelf was expired, too. Bummer. I settled for NutriSource Large Breed Puppy and the first few bowls he ate ok, but then began turning his nose up to it. I tried a different approach and went for the Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch. Success! He ate it willingly and his stools firmed up nicely. The first bag went by and he ate it all up with no problem. Half way through the second bag I noticed he wasn’t going for it as excitedly as he used to. I bought a third bag anyway. Now I’m struggling to get him to eat it. I have to mix it with gravy for him to even touch it. My boyfriend has his brother and he feeds him Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast and I grabbed two cups from his to try with my dog. I gave it to him replacing his regular morning meal without gravy and although he ate it, it wasn’t as happily as I’d hoped for. I’m at a loss now. Has anyone had this problem? What solution did you find? I’m sorry I’ve made this long. I don’t want to keep mixing gravy and wouldn’t like to introduce wet. Don’t want to make him pickier than what he already seems to be. I was looking at Annamaet but I live in Los Angeles and no retailers carry it here. I’m not a fan of ordering online, I’d much prefer to drive and get my food. I’m also hesitating on switching back to grain inclusive as his poop is firm on grain free. My head just doesn’t function right at this point. Any pointers? I don’t even know if I’m asking this question in the right place

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

There are 3 reasons why the grain-inclusive Great Life didn’t make the list:
1- the calcium was too high.
2- the food is not 4 stars or above.
3- they didn’t respond to HDM’s inquiry about their actual calcium levels.

I’m not sure which one it was, but HDM said that if I food wasn’t on the list then it was because of one of the above reasons.

What are you still searching for? I would not be afraid to use the Wellness Core or NVI Turkey. I have to concur with Patty. The issue with growing large breed puppies is not protein. They need to grow slow and not have too much calcium. HDM has figured out the calcium for us with her list. As for slow growth, they can grow slow on high protein/high calorie foods but you can NOT overfeed them. If they get too many calories and grow too fast then you will run into problems. Regarding how much to feed- yes, you would feed less of a high protein/grain-free food because it has more calories. Those foods tend to be more calorically dense because they have more meat which means more fat and fat contains double the amount of calories as protein. If you fed a grain-inclusive the calories would probably be lower because there are more carbs (from the grains) and less fat. So you could feed more of a grain-inclusive. It depends on the dog. I had a rottie (passed last month from cancer) that acted hungry all the time no matter what food he was eating, grain-free or grain-inclusive. I suspect labs can be the same way. If I were you, I would start feeding the Wellness or NVI Turkey and see how he does on them. If he does well then great! Add those to a rotation list. Then you can try a grain-inclusive like Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and see how he does. If he does well on both types of food then I see no real reason to why he can’t eat grain-inclusive. You can alternate between grain-free and grain-inclusive foods.

That’s my 2 cents. I hope it helps alleviate some of the confusion. Here is a great article about large breed puppy growth by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/09/slow-growth-diets-for-giant-breed-puppy.aspx I feel like this is a great summary of what this whole thread is about and it explains it much better than I can.

[Tucker]

Thank you Patty… Just when I thought I was good to go I run into the protein debate. 🙁

I went today and got a little bag of Wellness Puppy Core and NV LID Turnkey all on the list. Before I found you guys I had bought a bag of Great Life Chicken. I guess that is not grain free but shows lower protein.

Here is my sticking point. I have read all 59 pages 🙂 and now I am educated and confused as hell lol

My breeder of labs for 18 years was feeding Costco Salmon and Sweet Potato which is OK for puppies on the list but we have the Diamond Food recall issue. On her puppy packet she says, ” we don not fed puppy food because of the high protein in it. Pups and growing dogs do not need more than 24% protein in their diets. A large breed grows quickly and we want to make sure the joints keep up with the growth so no puppy food.”

You are in agreement with that part and the calcium levels are ok with that food. But the protein is low. Does she just not know. She said 18 years and she never has a problem with her dogs on that food. Who is right? The vet put me on Iams puppy lb and he started itching, so she put him on antibiotics and med shampoo. I feel like an idiot for giving him the pills so young but I listened to the dr. Everyone has a different opinion. I just want to do what is best. The amount of research that has been here is incredible and I am so appreciative to everyone that has taken the time to share their knowledge. Alas I feel I find myself in the same place as many newbies… over informed and over confused!

Do I look for a high end food that had the right calcium but lower protein as she says to cover both bases. The Great Life Chicken I have here and was going to start him on before I found you guys is 22%. Not grain free though. I guess the grains keep the protein levels down?

2 of the lower protein on the list get close to what she says and covers my calcium.

Earthborn Meadow Feast is 26%…
Dr Tims Kenesis is 26%

so if I understand… we adjust the quantity to compensate for the extra protein calories with a high protein food so he doesn’t grow to fast? That is what she is worried about. he is a lab and loves his food… wouldn’t it be better to give him a food with less protein and a larger quantity so he can chow down and feel full? or does it not work that way? Am I just filling the belly with wasted or unbalanced calories?

Tucker is a hoover… if I free fed him he would look like a basketball. I don’t think he would stop eating… 🙂

Right now he is 4 months and 32 pounds at last check (yellow lab male) Every vet that has looked at him says he is going to be a big boy! He is not rolly polly now. I think he looks good in the waste and ribs.

Just when I thought I had it… and I am stuck in the mud again. but now with 3 different bags of kibble at home that I am apprehensive to use 🙁

I hope I am not the only person that is this confused. You are all so patient with everyone. Sorry if I am driving you crazy.

But thank you soooo much for the help!!!!

[GizmoMom]

There’s a discussion about food for large breed puppies on this thread.
/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-32766

[Jazz Lover]

I’m confused about which (age group) food to give our 9mo male black lab… should we continue feeding large breed puppy, or switch to an All Stages or simply and adult dog food now?

Jazz is recovering from surgery for elbow dysplasia w FCP. It sounds like there joints fully develop by age 2, but my vet said an adult food is good at age 6-10 mos.

Additionally, has anyone had good results from any specific supplements for similar concerns and age lab and are further in recovery?

Thank you

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Tucker]

Hi All,

First post. Great site! Can’t believe I have had labs my entire life and never found it. I replied under large breed nutrition and wasn’t sure if I should have started another topic so I put it in both. Not sure of the protocol here yet 🙂

Apologies for the length… I wanted to get it all in 🙂

We just lost both of our labs last year in a one two punch within 2 months. Killed me 🙁 Floyd (my 11 1/2) Chocolate to prostrate cancer and KC (my girl 15 1/2) yellow to lack of mobility. That girl was bolted together more times and just kept on trucking. Pretty amazing… I was blessed. She may have cost me a fortune, but she was worth every penny and more. As close to a human as a dog can be 🙂 For anyone who has an older dog that is having trouble getting around I HIGHLY recommend trying acupuncture. I got two extra years of love out of her. 🙂 Now to the new…

A few months ago we started a new chapter in life and brought Tucker home. (I would put up a pic but I can’t figure out how to do it.. lol. Gorgeous White Male Lab. Great breeder, all of her dogs looked so healthy, great referrals. Then the unthinkable happened. We brought him home a few days before 8 weeks and on day two we were all on the bed ( I know… don’t even say it. There is a crate on there for when we sleep… Still want him on Daddy’s bed) I was at the top and my fiancé was at the bottom.. Tucker in the middle and he did a scoot and rolled of the bed… and began limping 🙁 I almost died. You all can only imagine! He favored his should for a few minutes and he was fine. Then two weeks later my finance was holding him, put him down and he favored for a minute and was fine. I was thinking maybe a bone bruise. Two weeks later it happened again!!! That was it… x-ray time. Our regular vet said there was a slight deformity in the round of the shoulder bone where it goes in the socket but it would it probably just go away and to keep him calm for a month or so. That doesn’t work for me. I’ve paid the price for listening to first opinions in the past and not investigating issues. I brought him to my Ortho who bolted my girl back together so many times and he gave me the real scoop…

OCD… I knew when he said come in my office it wasn’t a bone bruise. I’ve taken that walk before. 🙁 He’s old school and said monitor and if it gets bad we will fix it. He wasn’t showing signs of distress on manipulation. He said if it’s bad they yelp. I’ve researched everywhere and my brain feels like it is full of Bingo Balls right now.

Our breeder said she has never had a dog with OCD. I know nutrition and heredity are two factors, but in this case I have to believe that this is trauma related OCD and not from the others. With that in mind, I know slow growth, low calcium. Some say no carbs so grain free, others say not too much protein is bad which is what you get with grain free…

Bingo Balls :-/

Our breeder did not believe in puppy food and fed Kirkland Signature Salmon and Sweet Potato. I have a problem with Costco dog food. We got home and the vet said Iams puppy large breed was good. I think that is worse. Can’t believe I went there… I just wanted to do it all right. So here we are now.

I need the best dry food I can get considering his OCD condition in his left shoulder. I really don’t care what I spend on my bag of kibble. I just want to fix my puppy!!!

We got a harness instead of a collar so there is no unnecessary tugging, There are ramps everywhere so there is minimal impact on up a downs, and we try to control him as much as anyone could control a 4 month old lab. When the zoomies come you just have to go with the flow…lol.

Now I need to know the best dry kibble to feed him. Whatever will help as much as possible for this to heal and his bones to grow big and strong. 🙂

Side note … The vet did start him on a glucosamine pill that seems good. And then we talked to the lady at the holistic dog food store who says it may be bad because he is young and you don’t want it to take the place of his own body making it… seriously!!! like I didn’t have enough to worry about with the kibble….

Any help would be sooo greatly appreciated. I love my dogs more than people! I can’t change what happened and I have accepted that it was an accident, though preventable 🙁 Now I need to do everything I can to put things right!

Help me Doggie Food Forum… your my only hope! 🙂

Thank you everyone for all of your posts. They have been very helpful. This place is fabulous!

[Tucker]

Hi All,

First post. Great site! Can’t believe I have had labs my entire life and never found it.

Apologies for the length… I wanted to get it all in 🙂

We just lost both of our labs last year in a one two punch within 2 months. Killed me 🙁 Floyd (my 11 1/2) Chocolate to prostrate cancer and KC (my girl 15 1/2) yellow to lack of mobility. That girl was bolted together more times and just kept on trucking. Pretty amazing… I was blessed. She may have cost me a fortune, but she was worth every penny and more. As close to a human as a dog can be 🙂 For anyone who has an older dog that is having trouble getting around I HIGHLY recommend trying acupuncture. I got two extra years of love out of her. 🙂 Now to the new…

A few months ago we started a new chapter in life and brought Tucker home. (I would put up a pic but I can’t figure out how to do it.. lol. Gorgeous White Male Lab. Great breeder, all of her dogs looked so healthy, great referrals. Then the unthinkable happened. We brought him home a few days before 8 weeks and on day two we were all on the bed ( I know… don’t even say it. There is a crate on there for when we sleep… Still want him on Daddy’s bed) I was at the top and my fiancé was at the bottom.. Tucker in the middle and he did a scoot and rolled of the bed… and began limping 🙁 I almost died. You all can only imagine! He favored his should for a few minutes and he was fine. Then two weeks later my finance was holding him, put him down and he favored for a minute and was fine. I was thinking maybe a bone bruise. Two weeks later it happened again!!! That was it… x-ray time. Our regular vet said there was a slight deformity in the round of the shoulder bone where it goes in the socket but it would it probably just go away and to keep him calm for a month or so. That doesn’t work for me. I’ve paid the price for listening to first opinions in the past and not investigating issues. I brought him to my Ortho who bolted my girl back together so many times and he gave me the real scoop…

OCD… I knew when he said come in my office it wasn’t a bone bruise. I’ve taken that walk before. 🙁 He’s old school and said monitor and if it gets bad we will fix it. He wasn’t showing signs of distress on manipulation. He said if it’s bad they yelp. I’ve researched everywhere and my brain feels like it is full of Bingo Balls right now.

Our breeder said she has never had a dog with OCD. I know nutrition and heredity are two factors, but in this case I have to believe that this is trauma related OCD and not from the others. With that in mind, I know slow growth, low calcium. Some say no carbs so grain free, others say not too much protein is bad which is what you get with grain free…

Bingo Balls :-/

Our breeder did not believe in puppy food and fed Kirkland Signature Salmon and Sweet Potato. I have a problem with Costco dog food. We got home and the vet said Iams puppy large breed was good. I think that is worse. Can’t believe I went there… I just wanted to do it all right. So here we are now.

I need the best dry food I can get considering his OCD condition in his left shoulder. I really don’t care what I spend on my bag of kibble. I just want to fix my puppy!!!

We got a harness instead of a collar so there is no unnecessary tugging, There are ramps everywhere so there is minimal impact on up a downs, and we try to control him as much as anyone could control a 4 month old lab. When the zoomies come you just have to go with the flow…lol.

Now I need to know the best dry kibble to feed him. Whatever will help as much as possible for this to heal and his bones to grow big and strong. 🙂

Side note … The vet did start him on a glucosamine pill that seems good. And then we talked to the lady at the holistic dog food store who says it may be bad because he is young and you don’t want it to take the place of his own body making it… seriously!!! like I didn’t have enough to worry about with the kibble….

Any help would be sooo greatly appreciated. I love my dogs more than people! I can’t change what happened and I have accepted that it was an accident, though preventable 🙁 Now I need to do everything I can to put things right!

Help me Doggie Food Forum… your my only hope! 🙂

Thank you everyone for all of your posts. They have been very helpful. This place is fabulous!

[Bracha]

Hello,
I am new to this site (it was recommended by our pet shop owner). We live in Australia and thus spend a bit of time outdoors; bush and beach – lucky us. I have a very healthy German Shepard (as endorsed by my vet and every man that sees her walking the street – she has a large fan club, small town). She is de-sexed, large frame, straight back, 41Kg, 4 year 6 mnth. She has been with me since a puppy, 9 weeks. I initially fed her two different brands, but from about 2 months old she has been fed Dry Holistic Large Breed puppy than transitioned over to Holistic adult large breed. She thrives on it. Currently we are trying the Holistic Grain free large breed food and so far (2 weeks) all is well; her stools are a great shape, smell good and regular. Personally this is the only way to tell if your dog is responding to their feed in a positive way, check the pool daily!
I appreciate everyone has a budget, but am in total agreement with other members 4+ stars is the way to go.
I am currently researching the Raw diet option and will consider this diet. But the dry food is convenient. It is supplemented with 100 grams, human grade beef mince. I would be interested to hear members view on this combination of beef with dry turkey based feed; do they think it is self defeating? Enjoy reading the comments from like minded dedicated dog owners. Thanks

[NiceGuy55]

Brand new to the forum and holy cow you folks on here are so crazy about dog food – and I am so thankful for it because I’ve learned so much in one night just scanning through the posts! Calcium, protein, grain, ingredients… Thank you!!!

We’re welcoming a Newfie puppy into our family in a couple months – will be 9 wks old. Just want to make sure I’m understanding correctly – on the Large Breed Puppy Food List document with calcium info, this is a list of recommended kibble for PUPPIES, correct? I ask because many of those listed don’t indicate they’re specifically for puppies. Just checking!

Also – It’s a pretty comprehensive list. Any recommendations/experience with any of the brands/blends for a young puppy/giant breed such as a Newfie? One breeder told us she feeds her puppies Pro Pac. Obviously not on the list.

Want to do the right thing for my Newfie boy though would prefer to not have his food cost more than what I’m feeding my kids!!! 🙂 Again – Thank you all for the valuable information!

[DogFoodie]

Hi Kirsten,

Because yours is a large breed puppy, you should visit this thread and read some of the great information that Hound Dog Mom shares about large breed puppy nutrition and in particular, the need to feed them appropriate and controlled levels of Calcium. /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

Here’s HDM’s list of recommended foods for large breed puppies: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1. This list is the best place to start when choosing a food. It includes grain-inclusive, grain free and species appropriate raw like Jastech mentioned.

Another important thing to remember is to keep a large breed puppy lean (rolly poly puppies may be cute, but they’re not healthy) and avoid over-exercising him during his growth period.

Congrats on the new pup!

[theBCnut]

I would totally disagree that it is too much protein or too rich, at this point. The reason I say this is because there have been so many people that have reported vomitting and diarrhea on BB just lately, even with dogs that have been on BB for a long time.

Have you seen the thread on Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition? You should at least read the first few pages of it.

Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit or their LID Turkey are fine for large breed puppies. And Annamaet has a couple formulas that are good, too. Hound Dog Mom has a list on that thread that has foods with appropriate calcium levels for large breed puppies. The newest list is on page 15. Some formulas that are labled for large breed puppies are too high.

[EBM]

Our 19 week old English Cream was prescribed Royal Canin GI Puppy by our vet after three negative parasite samples and repeatedly worsening loose stools. He was on Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy. He switched fine to the new food but it is prescription and expensive and I really think he couldn’t tolerate something in the Blue Buffalo. I have read various positions on the cause stemming from too high a protein to a diet too rich. After researching, I am slowly swithcing to Fromm Gold Large Breed. Any thoughts comments or feedback! Just want to feed him a high quality food but don’t wat to feed presecription if it was only an allergy or sensititvity. Thanks !

[lilyh]

Does storing dog food in a cold environment negatively affect the food?

We have been keeping our kibble in our garage, top flopped over, and sealed with a packaging clip at the top. Recently we were feeding our English Setter puppy Nutrisource Large Breed, then transitioning to Dr. Tim’s. She’s been a voracious eater, but after a few weeks she just starting poking at it. I thought maybe the food had gone bad because a time or two the clip was not put back on the bag. So I dumped the dog food, went to the pet store and bought small bags of Nutrisource (to have a familiar to transition from) and Earthborn Meadow Feast. For 5 days she was back to chow hound ways, but today she is back to picking at her food.

As training treats we give her chicken, and I do stuff her kong with peanut butter, pumpkin. Could it be that she is just spoiled by the non-kibble?

Appreciate any insight you might have.

[Jazz Lover]

New to the forum!

I’ve been researching to identify a better food for our 9mo old blk lab, Jazz. He’s been on Euk Large Breed Puppy. This mo he had elbow surgery for Dysplasia FCP (& neuter 🙁 ). We were so upset. After seeing your recommend food list, my question is shall I switch him to an “all life stages” or keep him on a large breed puppy food until… when? If all stages, would I look for Large Breed “All Stages?”

When will he be full grown (male lab)? He is probably 75lbs since surgery.

Since surgery I’ve begun using Grizzly Salmon Oil Omega 3. I’m learning to identify better treats & seeking other necessary supplements highly recommends for such a young pup. Open to suggestions!

Thank you HDM for your efforts in compiling the list!

[lmnordrum]

Thank you Lablubber for your very informative post. I only have a puppy, Giant Schnauzer, on Wellness Core Puppy and she is doing well and no health problems and I’m glad I found this list so I can start her off ‘right’. I discussed raw with my vet (old country vet w/40 yrs exp, does large animals and small) and his concern is just what you say: salmonella and other bacterias. The food issue drives me crazy too. Before this whole kibble industry, people just fed their dogs what they ate.

I sure hope that Augie gets better though. Its like having a kid: you want to do the right thing and when it doesn’t work its just devastating.

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Every vet I have been to with all my dogs recommends Royal Canin Feed for dogs. And I have to be straight up honest with you too…..

This whole dog food issue is driving me absolutely nuts but I study it like a beast and I read and read and read and this is what I have concluded in all that I have read, been advised to do, and from what I have seen first hand in all of….

The Raw diet, although I know that it can be really great and it does seem like the most natural thing to do for your dog. But this is also from my studies of it, know to be a fact……

First the whole reason you are reading this anyway because you like myself, want only the best for your dog and so you want to be absolutely sure your dog or pup is getting everything it needs and requires in it’s diet… And so yes….If you use absolute extreme caution in prep and storage and you get all of your ingredients from a for sure, organic farm and ranch. And if you want to be absolutely sure that your supplementation is correct that you are going to use. the only for sure way that you can do that is by having bloodwork ran on your dog and having a nutritional spectro analysis ran to know the correct amounts of each vitamin and nutrient is being met in his diet and then no one can argue that the Raw diet is a great way to go.

But… the big But word….. The downside to the Raw diet has been, that due to prep work and non organic ingredients being used and this has happen to people who are OCD about it…But it has led to some very serious bacteia infections in people’s dogs and has even caused death in dogs due to the bacteria present in raw food. This bacteria has caused dog’s intestines to actually sluff off the inner lining and pass blood so bad that if they made it through the IV treatment and antibiotics regime then they were fine or otherwise dwindled down and they died.

So the downfall to raw is obviously, the chance you take in that happing, the expense of the spectro analysis, not to mention food cost involved…

Then the super high tech foods that everyone reccomends… The stuff like Blue, Innova, Dr. whatever and all that list on here… They all have high cost, but at least because they were processed in a high temp. situation…The biggest majority of all bacteria has been removed from it. So that is not a worry…. But then you read and know people who have fed that feed and some dogs have bleeding problems associated with it because of the high protien involved in it… Or whatever causes it….. It is not a rarity either….

Then a big push by folks for this food is they say that is like the food that animals in the wild eat and so let me say this as a country boy to as well as being an avid predator hunter, I have never in my life, seen wolves nor coyotes…..Ever eating carrots, blueberries, potatoes, kelp, etc. So in reality then….What is a person to think???? Not like a wild animals diet at all….

Then you come to the more old tried and true….The per say….Puppy Chows and High Pros and the Iams and Eukanubas etc. and yet more and more people are having their precious dogs come down with all different kinds of cancers and tumors. And for me being an avid reader of medical stuff in humans and from all I have read about Monsanto and the genetically mutated corn and the serious ill effects and cancer causing issues they have had in humans because of it….Then it also makes me extremely leery of any pet product containing any corn or corn by product….But yet, even myself I had to learn from folks on here of the ill effects of non-regulated calcium uptake in puppies, especially large breeds and yet I have never raised a lab pup that I didn’t put milk replacer or powdered milk in their food when I feed them…

So needless to say…..It is a very scary world out there for all of us as pet owners…. But one thing I have learned about some vets is…. They like doctors will treat a dog, until you say this is enough and I have been there some times before myself. So one thing I have learned and also saved many a dog with even those who had been left to die of parvo is if you are truly serious about your dog as much as most of us are on here. I will share my country boy diet that has saved quite a few dogs, exhibiting the very same symptoms your dogs is showing…

Go to a local rancher/farmer who raises ducks or chickens near you and and one who lets them fend for them selves for feed and buy them. Then butcher the ducks and boil them down to pieces and I mean everything….the livers and gizzrds and hearts and then add cooked organic brown rice or even quinoa and feed your dog exclusively on that for at least several weeks or even a month after all signs of bleeding ceases to exist in his stool…. As well as, only allow him or her to drink only alkaline water. If you have to buy it….I know Fiji water is akaline but it is also fairly expensive.

Then I would also add 3 capsules of tumeric or curcumin which is the same thing, to his food daily everday and continue that from there on cutting back to one to two capsules a day after he is healed. You can get this at any health food store or pharmacy…

If your dog were showing any signs of weight loss or delapidation in any ways whatsoever…. As I did in the ones that had parvo, I would also recommend adding acidophilus to his food as well as Goat colostrum and I can tell you, your dog’s bleeding should stop within a 4 to 5 days and he will be well on his way to recovery although I would recommend keeping him on the chicken and brown rice regime for at least a month and then begin to transition over to what ever food you want him to be on from then on, always watching closely for any recurrance of bllod in the stool.

Myself I would use the Goat Colostrum and Acidophilus anyway if money permitted regardless of weight loss or not…. But anyway if you couldand if you really wanted to recharge his system as well…. I would keep him on the acidophilus, tumeric and Goat colostrum for at least several months afterwards and then I would also start adding high flora yogurt to his feed when the bleeding stops…

I am not an expert by any means, but I am just a country boy who loves animals and refuses to watch any animal die if I can stop it. I will be honest…. I have lost faith in the medical field when it comes to humans and am quickly losing for the veterinarian field as well due to drug manufacturers and feed manufacturers getting in some of their pockets….

Yiour are well blessed if you have a vet who is in it for all of the right reasons… Very few and very far between… The love of money is the root of all evil and yes it has creeped down into the Vet world as well.

[kms]

Hi all! Just wanted to post an update on Augie and really need advice again. My vet has done all he can do to get rid of the Campylobactor bacteria. First, he put Augie on Marbofloxcin – which I opposed after reading about adverse effects on large breed puppies. After 4 days with no change in stool, we switched to Clavamox. Did 1 round. The stool is the same (1st part is formed, 2nd part runny). So vet sent us to an Internal Medicine specialist. Specialist did exam and sent bloodwork to Texas A&M for a CBC panel, profile and GI Panel. All bloodwork normal – TLI and Folate were fine and no pancreatic inflammation. Specialist thinks this is likely Inflammatory Bowel Disease. She suggested doing a biopsy of the large and small intestine (either a Biopsy via surgery or Biopsy via Endoscope). I asked if we could try elimination or hypoallergenic diet to see if the IBD is due to diet and she said “since he’s not losing weight, I’d be ok with that – but wouldn’t know anything for couple months”. If we go that route, she recommends Royal Canin HP (hydrolyzed protein; hypoallergenic, soy based protein). I asked about treating IBD with RAW or at least with a more premium limited ingredient food and she had no experience/opinion there.

I worry about him being only 7 mo old and having to go through all this. Can pups really have true IBD this young? My gut is telling me to change the diet, but I could end up spending 2-3 more months on something that doesn’t pan out for him. What do you think? Has anyone ever fed Royal Canin HP for GI issues? It’s only 19% protein (soy) and rice is the first ingredient. I thought grains were bad for dogs with IBD, colitus, etc. It does, however, have ok calcium levels (2.5 mg/1,000 kcal) and it’s approved for all life stages.

Thanks for any advice or insight….

[Shasta220]

I completely understand your need for economical nutrition! We have about the same problem… 3 years ago we had just two dogs and 5 cats. Now? 2 Betta fish, 3 cats, 3 dogs (aka PIGS with how much they eat…), 8 chickens, 2 ducks, a miniature horse, and a 600lb puppy dog (aka Iggy the Holstein steer…he doesn’t know he’s a cow)

We obviously cannot splurge that much on buying ultra quality food (our lab has allergies though, so she can’t have foods full of wheat/corn).

The most economical and quality foods I’ve found so far are Nutra Nuggets (I ONLY get the lamb n rice formula, since lamb meal is the first ingredient instead of corona or byproduct), Diamond naturals, and Kirkland signature. Kirkland is 4star food, about 25$ for 40lb, and can be found at Costo (possibly you could find it online?). Diamond naturals is very similar to Kirkland, but it’s 40$ (I get the Large Breed 60+ since it has glucosamine and chondroitin to help their joints). Nutra nuggets is the same price as Kirkland, but only 3-star.

To make the food last a bit longer, possibly try adding your own nutritious “fillers” such as sweet potatoes (baked), carrots, apples, and meat (cooked or raw). Possibly try to find a local butcher and see if you can buy meat-scraps, or meat that’s slightly expired (just past human-consumption, but 100% safe for dogs). I know a girl who was able to buy virtually unlimited amounts of expired meat for her 5 dogs and 8 cats… It was, I think, $.50 per lb, which is a serious steal! Yep, she gives her lucky pups 100% raw, lol!

I hope you’ve found something that’s good for the dogs and your wallet. Also, try not to get “lite” foods (I don’t ever get the lite ones…not even if it’s a quality brand), you may find yourself feeding more. Switching to a food that’s even a little better than Beneful might actually be cheaper, since you may feed less.

When I owned my 90lb APBT mix, he ate 9c of Dog Chow daily (and he was super thin, too!). We switched him over to Nutra Nuggets, and he went down to about 2c daily without gaining/losing ANY weight. My biggest tip is this: even if you can’t afford much, at least make sure meat is the #1 ingredient (meal is fine, avoid by product if you can…).

[goldenmamaX2]

Hello,
I’m new here and would like to get suggestions for food for my 2 goldens. They are 8 months old and have had them since they were 8 weeks. The breeder had them on Nutro large breed puppy and at 6 months I switched them to Nutro large breed adult. They are about 73lbs each, (which is what the parents were 70-80lbs). I’d like to get them off of large breed dog food and switch them to a grain free dog food. My only 2 criteria for that is I must be able to get it from petsmart and it cant cost more than $50/ 35lb.bag. So, I’m looking for an affordable decent dog food. We are currently going through about 8 cups a day which is about a bag of food every 2 weeks. I have been considering bil-jack and blue buffalo which are about $55/bag. Thanks for you suggestions!

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks again Patty!

One other question…does anyone know if HDM evaluated Bravo! Raw food? It’s not on her list (and it is a 5-star rated food) but I’m unsure if that’s because it didn’t meet criteria, wasn’t checked or weren’t responsive when questioned. Though I am planning to eventually DIY I’m looking for a reasonably priced alternative in the meantime.

Again, can’t thank everyone enough for the advice on this forum.

[Lablubber]

I am a newby to all of this high tech dog food stuff but now that I am older and much wiser I read all I can about the well being of my pups…. I was the old way, dump milk or condensed milk into my puppy food to help them grow strong bones and prevent dysplasia then when they get older feed high pro to keep them muscled. but as I got older and wiser and had more time to read and started hearing more and more about canine cancer and the grain based feeds being considered as a culprit. I really started reading alot and looking for the best food available. I just bought a new puppy a yellow lab and only want the best for him but then just today I saw in an article on here that actually hinted or said that you can actually give a puppy too much calcium and I sure do not want to hurt this lab puppy in any way. but I thought I was doing what was best for him because of their size and higher than normal occurrance of dysplasia and so as always I have for the first year at least, added a scoop of milk replacer to my dog’s food bowl and along with it, I mixed it with warm water to make their food more appititizing and suppopsedly also helped build bones. So after reading these articles…. And also pleading stupidity with all of you for only wanting what is best for my dogs…. Is what I have been doing a bad thing for my dogs? Especially if it does not cause loose or runny stools? Because after reading articles on here, it seems like in these articles that they are saying that it actually causes more hip dysplasia and elbow displaslia? Is this correct? Because my vet has never caautioned against it and so believing the vet above my Holiday Inn Express Education in Veternarian Science, I sure would appreciate a good answer and explaination as to why, the extra calcium he gets by the milk replacer he gets in his food causes and even worst chance of dysplasia because I sure don’t want to hurt my puppy for anything? So if anyone can cite me or send me any articles on this or can tell me where to look. I would like to know. Also if anyone can tell me why I should not use Blue Wildness Lg. Breed Puppy Food for him or Blue Lg. Breed Puppy Chicken and Brown Rice Formula? Sorry to sound so stupid but as I said I was Puppy Chow, Hi Pro man all my life and thought I was doing good.

[Sue’s Zoo]

First, thank you so much HDM for taking time to respond and Patty for helping out. I guess I did realize the c:p ratio was still important but was hoping it might be somewhat automatic when feeding raw. And from your response it seems like that is the case IF I get the balance correct between organ, muscle/tissue, and bone. And there are several ways to accomplish that–grinds, RMBs, Tripe mixes, etc. I guess at this point I just want the simplest way to get started, which ideally would be someone saying: feed this, then this, etc. 🙂 while I read and re-read all your info and additional recommended resources to educate myself and become more confident in creating my own meals. I did see some of your info under raw feeding giving your dogs various diets over a period of time. I’m going to look at those more closely because I think it’s what I need to kickstart the program. I just wasn’t sure if those contained all the necessary nutrition for large breed PUPPIES (as well as adult dogs). So thanks again for your response.

I think I may start with MPC as I look for less expensive routes for the future. Considering what I pay for just doing half Primal (chicken, beef, rabbit and venison) plus top end kibble/canned (rotating Wellness CORE Puppy/Earthborn Coastal Catch/Halo Surf n Turf, plus a daily can of FROMM Gold rotating proteins), with these pups, I can’t imagine it’s going to be much more…I hope. And I’m going to get a freezer (checking CL today)

And lastly, for now, you mentioned books. I have the Ancestral Diet book. I’ve noticed Dr. Becker’s is recommended in several places so I plan to get it. Are you familiar with Raw Dog Food by Carina Beth MacDonald? Any others you could recommend to help me jump in quickly?

So happy to have found this site. I’m sure I’ll have many more questions over the next few months. Learning so much from you and some others. And I’m a skeptic so I don’t trust everything I read on the internet. But just by reading your posts it’s obvious you’ve done the research and know what you’re talking about.